SFF CRT gaming PC time capsule: MS-DOS, Windows 3.x, 95, 98, XP, and Vista/7
Posted by SchmidtCassegrain@reddit | retrobattlestations | View on Reddit | 77 comments
NevynPA@reddit
So each screen is a chronologically themed virtual desktop? Are you just running Windows 7 as a single OS, and not multi-booting?
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yep, most precisely XP, a sweet spot between enough Windows 3.x/95/98 compatibility and DirectX 9 support which existed well entered DirectX 10 and 11 era.
NevynPA@reddit
Sounds perfect to me. I have plans to use an X370 motherboard I purchased for something similar. It has two traditional 32-bit PCI slots on it- so with an old PCI ATA 133 controller, I should be able to hardware boot just about anything on a socket AM4 CPU. The board has a VGA out if you are using a CPU with integrated graphics. My CRT will be connected to that, and I will put a modern-ish GeForce Titan XP in the PCIe x16 slot.
This will be set as the default rendering device, but the integrated graphics will be the default display device. I will lose 3 to 5% performance doing it that way compared to directly connecting to the card, but it allows me to have CRT VGA as the primary display on a modern card with modern OS so that I can play more current games in full tube goodness while also being able to hardware boot off of an old drive directly into Windows 98 or XP. 😁
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Sounds interesting, I still have to fully understand your idea, but I have few suggestions: first check drivers compatibility between the OS and the GeForce, it won't work under Windows 98. Also check using directly the CRT on a VGA capable GPU like the GTX 750ti, and last check this Displayport to VGA converter https://www.startech.com/en-us/display-video-adapters/dp2vgahd20
Nespower@reddit
You need more decals
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yeah, the ricer Need for Speed Underground version. Probably it will make the games run faster, lol.
Nespower@reddit
Get a 486x turbo decal that would slap
Competitive_Pomelo43@reddit
I think you need on more icon on your desktop.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
If you can find a free spot! :D
NevynPA@reddit
If you open your desktop in a file explorer window, you can add more items than there is space to display icons to the actual desktop.😁😎👍
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Don't challenge me! :p
NevynPA@reddit
Purely informational, my good retro friend! I learned this the hard way when as part of my day job as tech support, I had to help an end user find a file they had put on their desktop. They couldn't find it, because their desktop was 100% complete icons across the entire grid- but they had 20 or 30 files more than could be shown and then they clicked lineup icons and boom! Their files disappeared.🙄😅
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Lol, tech support stories are from another world. I won't tell about the servers that mysteriously rebooted from time to time on a remote office for months, until someone discovered the cleaner woman was disconnected them to power her vacuum cleaner.
johncate73@reddit
Windows 2000 and Windows 8 want to know what they did wrong.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Good question, also Windows Me. Too much granularity would made these desktops too empty, as 2000/Me were released only one year before XP, and 8 was released almost when games stopped supporting DirectX 9, and so needing Vista/7, also the video card I use is not powerful enought for these more modern games, even multibooting in 7 (which I have done).
Long-Trash@reddit
you, sir, are a madman and i salute you.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Hehe yes sometimes we spend abolutely too much time on something stupid, but I enjoyed it!
Long-Trash@reddit
And that's the best reason to do such a thing.
Tyr_Kukulkan@reddit
I used to have one of those SyncMaster monitors. I don't know what happened to it.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Is a good monitor. It's yet possible to find CRT at a reasonable price, but they won't last forever.
FrancisJXavyer@reddit
How in the world did you do all of this and how can I do this? And can this work with physical CDs? Cuz I got an old demo CD that I wanna get working again since I spent a fair bit of time and money to track it down!...only to not have it work on any of the old computers I got off eBay.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yes, it works with physical CDs, in fact many old copy protections work on XP but not in modern Windows, I mainly got ISO images from places like archive.org but it's no difference. What's the name of the game? I suggest you serarching it on https://www.pcgamingwiki.com
ArtisticTrex54@reddit
This is a cool system and all, but I am going to have to downvote because you are running the wrong OS'es on Windows 7 era hardware.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
You're not wrong, It depends on the philosophy:
- if you end the XP era on the release date of Windows Vista, that's 30th january 2007, and that's what I appproximately used for selecting the games to be on the XP desktop.
- but if your target is using the most recent hardware that had official XP support, that's exactly this build, an Ivy Bridge (if choosing Intel). Haswell and newer could also be used but you lose some official compatibilities like USB ports or HD Graphics, and then you need to use hacks. And this system was powerful enought for what I needed so I simplified.
ArtisticTrex54@reddit
No disrespect to you btw. I think your build is awesome. I just don't understand these LGA 11xx builds. When I build computers for older operating systems to relive nostalgia, I would also want to use parts and hardware from around the time the OS was relevant. If you prefer maximum performance over period correctness on XP I guess you are on the right path. Keep up the good work.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yeah it's just a different way of doing retro things, just for fun, and having the bonux of being more convenient. Same can be applied to using emulators, at the end the important part is enjoying it and mantaining these games alive for others to discover them.
PikwikHazel@reddit
My Windows XP rig uses hardware from like 2015, I think they’re fine
gotbletu@reddit
Desktop icons overload, could of use playnite to organize them, easier to filter/search
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Oh, I use LaunchBox on my modern rig, but for this one I just tried to stay stock. Also having thousand of games on a list is not the same than having them on the desktop ready to launch, invites you more to play them.
I ordered them chronologically (I'm still half way) so that way I have a visual hint of how games related to others. And they are ordered in row groups by theme.
gotbletu@reddit
i see, yea i prefer it on modern OS so i can use sunshine/moonlight to stream the games. Only got older machines for games that has DRM or dont work well on newer systems
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yes, I also do both, in a modern build you can enhance the games, run them in ultrawidescreen, etc. But as time passes all the games will become incompatible with newer Windows versions (or hardware architectures), so the long term solution is either emulation, which is not so easy on PC, or a robust long term time machine like this tries to be.
gotbletu@reddit
Futurewise might be WINE and modern Linux when all these old pc dies off.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
I don't discard it. Many years ago I used Winde/Cedega and DosEMU and it surprised me, I've heard nowadays thanks to the help of Valve with Proton its even better. That will be a project for future me.
retro-gaming-lion@reddit
I had a SSF Dell 990 SSF with i5. Upgraded it to 4gb RAM. With the HD 2000, it ran everything (excluding DooM 3 on high due to driver issues). Gave the system away to a guy on reddit. Hopefully he has great time with it)
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yes they are super capable even without a dedicated GPU. In that case you can opt for an even smaller USFF model.
A006T@reddit
Awesome, hats off buddy
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thanx!
recluseMeteor@reddit
Awesome usage for that OptiPlex! Love these small machines, I use one as an HTPC.
Hope you had a lot of fun building it!
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thank you, sure I did! I also value them a lot, they're small, silent and built like a tank. And they're cheap as chips these days.
PequenoRato@reddit
Wow!
just wow
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thanx!
Dogework@reddit
How the hell is the taskbar narrower than the rest of the desktop image?
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
I think is an optical effect due to a reflection and the image having some black margins to the plastic bezel.
jf7333@reddit
Awesome
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thanx!
Healthy_Article_2237@reddit
It’s always so funny to see folks paying big money for 386, 486 or early Pentium machines and period video cards when the best gaming PC for all eras is like a 10-15 year old PC with some modern updates.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
I respect nostalgia, I still have the 286 I used when I was a child, and have a laptop to tinker with Windows 98, but my experience in the past and when using them now is having a PC that wasn't powerful enough for the most recent games, so for once I wanted something overpowered that could run all the games I care for, small, quiet and cheap, and now it's possible so here we are.
In some years XP and then Vista, 7, 8, 10... will become the new Windows 98 and hardware will skyrocket, so the time to build this is now.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
After one year of working on my SFF time machine, it has nearly 1000 games! I've created dedicated virtual desktops for each era and upgraded to a 19 inch CRT just to have more space for icons (not only but yeah).
Build is a SSF Dell Optiplex 7010 with Intel Core i3-3240 / 4GB DDR3 RAM / Radeon HD 7750 1GB DDR5 with VGA output (was a GTX 750Ti but drivers had poor compatibility with early DirectX versions) / 1TB+480TB SSDs.
Small footprint, noise and power consumption, but superb performance for playing almost any game from 1981 to 2012 (if it supports DirectX 9c), with everything maxed out at 1600x1200 75Hz.
- Desktops and switching animation managed with Dexpot.
- Desktop icons grouping managed with Fences.
- DOS games on XP with 3dfx and MIDI support with DOSBox ECE.
- Early DirectDraw games compatibility via cnc-ddraw.
- Glide support with nGlide.
- CD Audio from OGG files with ogg-winmm.
- 3D Sound support with Dsoal-XP.
- Icons position management via ReIcon, refresh rate forcing via RefreshLock.
Force Feedback effect on early 2000s simulators like Comanche 4, MechCommander 3, MS Flight Simulator 2004 or FreeSpace 2 with a Logitech Wingman Force (see photos).
Arcade/Sim Racing with Force Feedback using ThrustMaster TS300 steering wheel and T3PA pedals (see photos). Yes, works perfectly on XP!
qda@reddit
What's dosbox ECE? The link is dead.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Oh, it was a custom build maintained by a person, including patches that were not on the main DOSBox. In my opinion is the best version that still runs under XP. You're right, he recently stopped supporting it, but I didn't know he deleted the web page.
You can download the last version from the archived web: https://web.archive.org/web/20240616235522/https://yesterplay.net/dosboxece/
I'll go ahead and replace the link on my post.
CartographerEvery268@reddit
I tried to do this with laptops like the commenter below as well…but this is extremely efficient nostalgia.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yeah, perhaps the best nostalgia per cubic cm, that was the idea.
InterstellarDiplomat@reddit
This comment is already helpful, but I'd be very interested if you'd do a big blogpost or a github to document your steps and the things you encountered to get here. Because I can imagine you now have a lot of niche knowledge for getting all of this to co-exist in one machine.
With less space than I used to have, I'd love to do the same. Plus this more modern setup is also interesting from a preservation perspective, with era accurate hardware always becoming more scarce/expensive.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
You're absolutely right, this has been a long year of learning little quirks, fixes and tips along the way, and I've thought more than once on compiling it for people could be interested on doing the same, but first of all didn't know if it's too niche or others would be interested. I've already made some notes for myself on this Vogons thread, so you could perhaps give it a read.
AmazingmaxAM@reddit
So many memories from looking at those icons… thank you for making a great list when I set up my own rig!
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
You're welcome!
Detroit72@reddit
Fantastic! Great work, really like the idea of having everything in one device.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thank you!
gedai@reddit
“Los Sims” sent me - this is cool
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thank you! I tried to mix good games from all generes, even ones I don't usually play to learn about them. This is my personal long term game history project.
HeywoodJaBlessMe@reddit
Awesome! What a great post. I do something similar with a Dell Wyse box from 2013.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thank you! Just share it, I also love these thin clients. Also ask if you have any question.
kenef@reddit
Nice setup man, covers pretty much all of the 90s to mid 2010s.
See if you can build out a virtual network switch and interconnect them as well.
I have a similar setup (nowhere near 1000 games tho), but it is all hardware and aside from some gaming got to muck around with stuff like win sharing, net meeting compatibility, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagecomputing/s/ks3xUzpsiH
No 3dfx compatibility on my end currently tho as my Voodoo 2 lost some caps over the years
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Beside games, apps are also interesting, I tried to install the ones I used back in the day like the Sonique music player or Office XP suite. I also had to tweak things on networking level, I have all my files on a QNAP NAS and I can access it from Windows XP and 98 builds.
kenef@reddit
Ah yea shares from old school Win OS and the SMB1 shenanigans :)
Nice man, looking forward to see the future of the project!
JA1987@reddit
Hey so on those Dells, you can actually change the orientation of the Dell logo to match the orientation of the computer (and in this case those stickers too). It involves popping off that front plate and removing a single screw that's holding the Dell logo on.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Oh come on! I had no idea! I don't know if this exact model allows it, but yes the plate seems suspiciously loose on both ends. Seems I must open it and remove a fan to reach the screw so I'll do it tomorrow with more time, that CRT weights a lot. Thank you for letting me know!
NorthSleepingBear@reddit
Wow how many games! And everywhere the same set of programs?
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
It's the same machine for all them, only desktops are themed different.
NorthSleepingBear@reddit
I didn't understand the beginning. Thanks
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Np, it's somehow a weird idea, not obvious at first glance I suppose.
Blah-Blah-Blah-2023@reddit
Not enough desktop icons!!
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Haha I started that way and see where I arrived!
ByteEater@reddit
I had that very background with all the circuits, not sure where it came from, was it included in windows? It was so cool haha
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Yes, it was part of the "Inside your computer" theme of the Plus! addon for Windows 95, and then came free (you need to select it during setup) with Windows 98. I tried to mostly use stock wallpapers for all the desktops.
bersotti@reddit
Amazing work.
SchmidtCassegrain@reddit (OP)
Thanx!