RTX 5070 vs RTX 4070 Super
Posted by Mandleaf@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 87 comments
I got my new PC, a 1k build without a GPU, and about 600£ reserved for that purpose. I know I want to go for an Nvidia, but I am currently utilising my old GPU, a 1660 Super OC from Gigabyte (triple fan)—if that matters.
Honestly, it is a good card, and I don't need an update that badly; I still think that 1660 was one of the best Nvidia products for the price back then. But it is what it is; I am not here to discuss whether Nvidia is good or bad.
I bought a new PC without a card because of the upcoming 50xx series. I would appreciate your help or advice on whether 5070 (I know it is not out yet) is worth buying over 4070 Super. Please keep this in mind:
I do not care about 'fake' AI frames, DLSS, etc. I only care that games be playable on a 4k monitor (I know the xx70 series isn't the best, but I am out of my budget for xx80). I don't mind fake frames; for me, the end customer, all that matters is the experience, not some principle. If it looks good, I am fine. And also I don't want old cards, I will not buy 30xx or 20xx series, this build is intended for the next 7 years, so 40xx is the min I can go for.
Ideally, the new pricing for 5070 is perfect for me. 550£ sounds excellent, but as I said, I have a 600£ budget, so I will not exceed it. And I will probably go for an FE edition; if not, some white shroud. As I have white build.
Some additional things:
- - My PSU is 1200W ATX 3.1
- - My MOBO can support up to Pci-e 4.0 gen cards (yeah, I know I messed up with this one ;<)
- - CPU is AMD's 5' 9th gen series
Oh, I am not sure if I mentioned this, but I will not buy used cards, only new ones. And if you're reading this after the 50xx cards are out, please give me your opinion; it may not be too late, you can help others.
GonstroCZ@reddit
> I do not care about 'fake' AI frames, DLSS, etc. I only care that games be playable on a 4k monitor
this doesnt make sense, if you play games that support DLLS, especially at 4k these "fake" frames will give you so much better experience. You said it yourself that neither of these cards are best for 4k gaming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjnEiP9a9kQ&ab_channel=NVIDIAGeForce
o0ade0o@reddit
But the chances are he’ll get a reduction in response rate and image quality, in my eyes that’s a worse experience.
May-flies@reddit
The first hardly ever matters outside of pro-gaming and the second is not a real use case scenario. Nobody sits as close to their huge TV as they'd sit to their monitor. On the upside, afaik, TVs have superior colors and contrast.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
What I meant to say is that I understand people are getting upset about NVIDIA's aggressive push in the AI fake frames, and some are labelling these cards as "fake performance cards." That's why I mentioned, "I don't care about fake AI frames." I don't mind whether the frames are real or not, as long as the technology works effectively. I apologise for any confusion.
I have a 4K monitor because I am using my TV; I simply don't have the budget to buy a dedicated machine for that purpose. So, I need my card to at least launch games at 4K.
Ok_Amphibian_5808@reddit
Please do not use a TV as a monitor, its not good because the response time can be bad, and have less pixel density because they are meant to be looked at from a distance. which all leads to a worse exprience.
austinolet@reddit
Gaming on OLED TVs is great.
depaay@reddit
I think you should get the 5070. Performance between them without frame generation will be close, but with the 5070 you will have the option of using multiframe generation which the 4070 super doesn’t have. I don’t know whether MFG will be good or worth it over normal FG, but in a scenario where we assume MFG works well the 5070 will output a lot more frames than the 4070 super. Obviously wait for reviews to be sure.
B4N_C1@reddit
But what if he has a 60hz Monitor? Is Framegen gonna work well in that case? I have a 4070S with a 4k 60hz monitor and I always turn Framegen off because it makes the game feel/look worse
leopierce1@reddit
Most TV's are 60hz. News shows and films are often 30fps or 60fps
Ok_Amphibian_5808@reddit
Based on reviews it seems like fake frames will be of a bit worse quality compared to real frames but it shouldnt be a problem.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Yeah, mine one is 120hz, but thanks for your feedback
PhaidraBR@reddit
can you not just use lossless scaling?
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
I appreciate your opinion
and I think it is the best solution. Thank I may actually wait for 5070.
Arxlvi@reddit
How big is your TV? You could always force a custom lower resolution to eek a little bit more performance. 3840x1640 for example would give you black bars at the top and bottom giving you a more cinematic experience (equivalent to a movie or ultrawide monitor) and save about 25% of the performance of 4k at the same time.
Random-Posterer@reddit
Then you better care about “fake” frames and dlss
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
I do, but I also do not; I don't mind or hate them as people are used to. I simply play a game and don't look at game settings if that makes sense. And as long as I get what I expect, I am happy.
Random-Posterer@reddit
No, it doesn’t make sense. Why are you asking your question but refuse to understand the difference to know what you want?
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Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
I am looking for a fair discussion about whether the 5070 is worth buying instead of the 4070s. I want to consider all aspects of the comparison without debating the merits of Nvidia's frame generation; I view it as part of the card's performance. In my previous post, I mentioned that I’m not concerned with DLSS or similar technologies, as I know people have strong opinions about them that could skew their opinions. I simply want to engage in an unbiased discussion.
Random-Posterer@reddit
Okay in that case skip the 50 series, go for a cheaper 40 series. Simple. Raw performance the 50 series has a small uplift.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Thank you
GonstroCZ@reddit
I know what you mean but why to play game at low settings when you can turn on DLLS and set settings to high/ultra + maybe even get more FPS?
IMO both DLLS and FSR output a really good frame rate when used in "quality mode" and I dont notice and tearing, high latency etc... but we will see how the DLLS4 will turn out, but so far I heard mostly positive reviews.
catsRtheShitt@reddit
Lol. Get with the times.
Juusto3_3@reddit
He clearly ment it as not minding "fake frames"...
GonstroCZ@reddit
and before that he says "I do not care about 'fake' AI frames, DLSS, etc.", which sounds like he cares about raw performance of the card
Juusto3_3@reddit
Yes but if you read the entire post it is quite clear what he meant.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Yes, you're correct. I don't mind them; I do not hate them, nor do I like them. It is just a feature to me.
Dark-Web-Hacker@reddit
I just brought a 4070 super today because I watched a video of some guy ranting so hard about fake frames it made me hate fake frames I still don't understand what they are but I hate the sound of it hope I won't live to regret it because paying 650 when the 570 pound 5070 is days away from coming out will make me hate the fake frames rant guy to
obviousthrowaway-46@reddit
It's not that deep you dont even notice the "fake" frames because they're 1:1 generated by AI. It's just a feature that boosts your FPS. You're influenced way too easily, we live in the future. If you want to you can just turn that off.
Assistant-Unable@reddit
I got the 4070 super instead of waiting for the 5070. Just like others said, you will not find a 5070 under 800 when it comes out. Plus the 4070 super and 5070 are pretty close in terms of power (without frame gen like you said)
obviousthrowaway-46@reddit
Okay well I can't find a 4070 super for under 900 right now so take that
Reggitor360@reddit
Good luck with that.
Also, 550 bucks is US MSRP. Means 650 in pounds after taxes plus the AIB tax on top.
Best you will be able to buy is a crippled 60 class.
Dark-Web-Hacker@reddit
I was playing bo6 4k on a 3070 medium to high settings
Scrotum_Monster13@reddit
Dude! I have a 10 GB RTX 3080 and I game at 4K with zero issues. I play on ULTRA on AAA titles, with MSAA down to 2x, no RT, and reflections down to medium (because who cares about background details), and if there is tessellation, I turn it to medium as well. I don't care about foliage on the trees and bushes.
My display is locked to 75 Hz (SUPER comfortable for my eyes, no headaches).
And a 3080 is equal in power and performance to an RTX 4070.
Keep in mind, consoles use the equivalent to an RTX 2070/SUPER and they play at 4K. So, that opinion is wildly inaccurate .
SKNRSN@reddit
Lol I have no idea why reddit thinks that 12 GB VRAM is not enough. Probably because youtubers / streamers keep repeating this because it's not enough for 2 or 3 games lmao.
I got 4K screen recently because TAA was driving me nuts on my 1440p and 4070 just chews through any game. You just have to drop few ultra settings like shadows to high and you easily get 75 fps in everything with DLSS quality or even native.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
I checked the prices, and in the UK, cards will be at the promised price £539 (at least, I hope so), as we have TAX already included. I know VRAM sucks. That's why I don't mind DLSS and dynamic scaling. I can always run games at lower res.
fish998@reddit
When you say you checked prices do you mean on nvidia,com, cause that's just the FE price, and chances of getting one of those is probably quite low. The AIC cards usually cost significantly more.
Frogboyx1@reddit
P.S. apparently I am an AMD fanboy
Frogboyx1@reddit
I just bought a 2nd build with a 7800x3d 4070 Super so I could review DLSS 4 on my channel. My main build is the AMD 7900XTX 7800x3d that I do all my gaming on.
4070 Super is a pretty strong 1440p card probably my favorite of the 40 series for sure. But I would definitely recommend the AMD 7800XT as it was just a much better experience overall when I did my testing.
Frogboyx1@reddit
Have you ever considered getting an AMD card? 9070XT is sounding really good if the price is around 600 bucks
Mydomainuserone@reddit
4070 super is in stock now for msrp. good luck finding a 5070 on release for less than 800
Stunning-Mall-6263@reddit
Where? I haven’t seen any besides on eBay
Sasha_Viderzei@reddit
From what I understand, you can pull the trigger now and game with your 4070 Super, or wait for february for the release of the 5070. As you said you're in no rush, so I'd advise to wait until you can make the educated choice (reviewers that aren't NVidia will have posted their testing videos) if the 5070 is worth it
However, be mindful that there are risks the cards won't be obtainable at their 550£ MSRP, especially the FE from what I understand. There's not so many sold by Nvidia, and they'll be selling like hot cakes since it's the lowest price option. So the day they come out, be ready with your credit card in front of you and cross your fingers
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I was thinking about it, too. That's why I am kind of desperate to be decided by February. As I know, scalpers and crypto people will buy the whole stock in minutes.
Scrotum_Monster13@reddit
Hey Mandleaf, Consider this, as well:
The 4070 Super has similar GPU frequency speeds to the 5070, however, the 5070 has a 2,209 MHz speed for the GDDR7 memory. The 4070 Super only has a 1,313 MHz speed for its GDDR6x speed. Plus, the 5070 has a 672 GB/s bandwidth for data transfer on card. The 4070 Super only has the ability to transfer 504 GB/s on card.
These are factors that make a DEVISTATING impact on gaming performance. Although the theoretical performance numbers are slightly better for the 4070 Super, we have seen HUNDREDS of times in the past, that these paper figures pretty much don't have an effect when it comes to last gen tech and new gen tech. New gen tech always trumps last gen when it is slightly behind in theoretical performance figures.
But, we will only know for sure, when the card releases. And the decision is ultimately, yours.
Good luck with your new GPU, friend ;-)
EnvironmentalDay9420@reddit
Hmm, I'm kinda in a dilemma as well with 4070s vs 5070. People saying 4070s>5070, but I recognized what you said about 5070 being a new tech, memory speed, clock speed, etc. while the 4070s > 5070 in Cuda cores. If I may ask, how many times did this scenario happened in the past - like people saying last gen tech is better than new gen tech, then proved wrong when the new tech comes?
Im stucked in 2019 gpu so I dont know any news at all
thanks
franz2595@reddit
Get the 5070. If Nvidia suddenly decide to go with this direction, then future updates should improve performance based on that trend.
Initial_Common7013@reddit
About 4070s and 5070... 4070s has 7168 and 2.48 ghz boost clock instead of 5070 6144 and 2.51 ghz boostclock.
The reason 5070 may outperform the last 4070s can be the 2209 mhz gddr7 speed with 672 gb/s bandwidth instead of 4070s with 1313mhz gddr6x with 504gb/s bandwidth.
Also 5070 offers better raytracing and ai performance + frame generation. That was my concern last days because I bought a 4070s and returned it to order a 5070. Please give me your thoughts.
Thnx.🎉
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Bandwidth doesn't really matter that much; the raw performance is in the shader and Cuda cores. I would buy 4070, but it is out of stock now. I can assure you that when 5070 comes out, you will not buy it for the first few months, and the prices will be 20% higher. It is just ridiculous. I even consider going for AMD at this point. As at least 7900 is in the stock.
BaronOfTheVoid@reddit
The 5070 has almost the same specs as the 4070 Super.
The 5070 Ti has somewhat better specs than the 4070 Ti Super, but not much.
The 5090 has much better specs than the 4090.
All in all it depends on the prices but the 5070 seems like the worst deal of the bunch.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Could you elaborate on your reasoning? I checked the stats, and while the 5070 has worse specifications compared to the 4070s, it offers better ray tracing (RT) and AI performance. This improvement might help balance things out. Additionally, the 5070 is about 20% more performant than the 4070, which could balance it out. If both models ultimately provide similar performance, wouldn’t it make more sense to choose the newer model? Feel free to discuss.
catsRtheShitt@reddit
People are just going to talk bad about the ai/frame gen/dlss4. Who cares. It's the way forward and they will really notice that come next gen games and 6000 series.
Ok_Amphibian_5808@reddit
The reason gamers dont like frame gen is because:
1: Force feeding: Nvidia is force feeding us it, and will be relying on it for any sort of performance in the near future.
2: Optimisation: It gives game devs the excuse to further not optimise their games for pc and as well rely on DLSS.
3: Quality: Fake frames are called fake because there not the same quality as real frames, best way to say it is like fake airpods vs real airpods, I mean, they look the same, but the fakes will never have the same feel and quality as real ones.
4: Price: I think this explains itself, like how Linus said it: "If im going to spend 2000 dollars on a graphics card, then im not turning on fucking DLSS.".
Ok_Amphibian_5808@reddit
Also because fake frames dont actually render how the game instucts, so if you have, lets say DLSS 5, which seeing by how DLSS have improved, will be about a ration of fake to real of 6:1, you'll have so much frames that are fake, it will just be almost purely fake.
danielnicee@reddit
It wouldn't make sense to buy, no. It'd make more sense to buy whichever is cheaper, and you're assuming scalping won't happen and increase prices.
And also, I get you're deadset on going Nvidia, which is fine, but if AMD offers more for less, then it makes even less sense to buy the 5070. If leaks are to be believed, the RX 9070 XT would seemingly cost similar to a 5070, but perform better in raster and similar in RT. It would make 0 sense to buy the 5070 over that, then. You're free to buy whatever, of course, but you invited discussion.
Nathan_hale53@reddit
I'm waiting for them both to release and I'll probably go for whichever is definitively better. Recently got a 4060 but I want a little bit more. If the 9070xt is priced 450 I'll take it either way with the rumors on its improvements being pretty good rn. If it's a 4070ti super but AMD it's a wrap.
danielnicee@reddit
I am waiting for the same, whichever is better and cheaper between RTX 5070 and RX 9070 XT.
Some leaks dropped yesterday saying that the 9070 XT performs like the 4080/super and better than 7900 XT in raster, and completely destroys the 7900 XTX in RT. That's without the new FSR4. If it's true, that means it's much better than the RTX 5070. If it's priced anywhere near the 5070, hopefully below it, it's an instant buy.
BaronOfTheVoid@reddit
RT and AI features are indeed nice - if you use them.
The AI features make an impact for upscaling and frame generation. Usually you would only enable this on a 4070 Super or 5070 if:
RT only really looks better in some games. For many there is no real improvement in image quality and in some cases it looks even worse. I'd say the best positive example would be Cyberpunk 2077 with full path tracing.
If that is how you intend to use the GPU/computer then the improved RT and AI features will come in handy.
But other than that the good old rasterization performance (and by extension, VRAM and Cuda cores) are more important.
Personally I would recommend to wait for actual real world benchmarks and would favor either the 5070 Ti (which, as said, does have somewhat better specs) and also the upcoming 9070 XT.
TraditionalPin689@reddit
Ich muss ganze ehrlich sagen kauf dir eine 4070 TUF, hab ich auch und ist mit 16 Gb Ram Ausreichend. Nur was Du Spielst wäre interessant!
ItzFyliop@reddit
Bro just wants to know which one would be the better option and y'all are arguing about his claim on fake frames. When he clearly just meant that he doesn't want ppl to talk about the fake frames and just wants an answer🤦🏽♂️
Mango1003@reddit
Im still waiting for one lmao
Lans__@reddit
Reddit moment
PreviousAssistant367@reddit
The 5070 will cost a lot more than that when it comes out. Mark my words.
Relevant-Hunter370@reddit
Half of the people believe they can buy one without any trouble and the the other half thinks there's gonna be scalpers everywhere and 5070s are gonna go for 1000$ :
Murky-Rush2988@reddit
Yep, your only chance at getting one at retail is brick and mortar. Online will be all scalpers. I’ve always thought about buying a handful of them, if I can get them at retail and put them up for sale around Christmas, they’re always sold out come mid December!
GungaGingaGing@reddit
Cheapest available 3090 in CeX is a good option. 7900GRE over locked at around £510, 7900XT at £630.
MaldadUchiha7@reddit
In December, I built a PC with an RTX 4070 Super, combined it with a Ryzen 5 7600X, and 32gb of DDR5 6000Mhz 30CL ram. I use it with my 43" 60Hz Samsung 4K smart TV, and let me tell you, it's brutal.
Games:
Shadow of the tomb raider: 4k, max settings, DLSS Quality, 60fps
Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered: 4k, max settings, DLAA, 60fps
Indiana Jones(I got it for free with the purchase of the gpu): 4k high settings, 1440p max settings, DLAA, 60fps
Cyberpunk 2077: 1440p, max settings (no RT), DLSS Quality, 60fps
Baldurs Gate 3: 4k, max settings, DLSS Quality, 60fps
Diablo 4: 4k, max settings, DLSS Quality, 60fps
Other games, 4k, max, 60fps: Battlefield 1, Spider Man Remastered, Assassins Creed Origins-Odyssey, GTA5, Jurassic World Evolution 1-2, Resident Evil remake 2-3.
In some games the difference in resolution is sometimes not so noticeable, for example in Diablo 4, between 1080p and 4k the difference is not so big. In Shadow of the Tomb Raider, 4K is very preferable. At the moment I am very satisfied with the gpu, I love it.
Connect_Tie9855@reddit
What PSU you have?
InternationalBus431@reddit
750W is sufficient. 850W rec. the corsair rmx series is pretty good. it's gold cert. and is pretty durable. i have my 750W Corsair RMx (2021)
SoccerGuyo11@reddit
brutally good?
FunkyColdBurrito@reddit
I don't care about fake frames either. Get the 5070 unless you can get a new 4070 for under $500!
swezubben@reddit
People are talking shit about 12gb on 4k. That is not a problem, i have been playing games in 4k with my 2080super (8gb) for years and was still doing it 1 week ago when it finally gave up on me.
lane5555@reddit
I have a 4070 super. I mainly run it at 2560 x 1080 (21:9 ultrawide at 100hz).
It is, of course, more than powerful enough for that monitor. I also have it hooked up to my TV most of the time, 3840 x 2160 (16:9 55" at 60hz native and 120hz with frame generation), which is mostly used for media content at 60hz, but I've used it to test the 4K ability of the 4070 Super at 60hz and 120hz.
It was honestly impressive. Without any of the dlss and all that, you'll never see consistent 120hz while playing games, but with everything turned on, it's definitely close (1% lows maybe reaching 90-100hz in the worst cases on some pretty demanding games).
Without any dlss, I could still get over 60hz at 4K on my TV with the TV's frame generation, probably around 70-80hz, but 1% lows closer to 40hz.
I would absolutely recommend the 4070 Super. If you can muster up the extra cost, a 4070 Super Ti would help a lot more for 4K gaming, especially if you want more consistent frames at or around 120hz, if not higher.
imarcelofabian@reddit
probably a 5070, but it's more reasonable if you wait for tests, I think depending on your components you may have a problem with input delay.
Nathan_hale53@reddit
Dlss is a miracle in some games. My 4060 punches above it's weight thanks too it. 5070 is gonna have the next version and it'll last a bit longer go for the 5070.
o0ade0o@reddit
If you don’t care about fake frames / MFG (which I don’t either due to the inevitable increase in response rate, latency and drop in quality), then go for the 4070 super. Based on released benchmarks of 4070 via 5070, it’s predicted the 4070 super will be on par.
PossesedZombie@reddit
”Fake AI Frames”. I understand your point and what you mean, although the right word is Frame Generation/Frame Blending. It’s used to generate extra frames similar to the frames that would be in between your actual frames, it has been available for years in programs such as Adobe AE etc. DLSS is an upscaling method which I think is actually worse. Claiming a GPU is powerful, “Ohh with DLSS you can’.” Nawh miss me with that shit, an expensive card being flexed based on software/game settings and unrelated optimizations. Brag the power without the software contribution involved.
In all honesty if I was you…
I’d stick to my 1660S, wait for the market to calm down on the RTX4080/RTX4080S and buy one of those second-hand. I kinda have a feeling the 50 Series is a bit over-hyped.
But that’s me, I play a lot of games that will require extra VRAM, RE2, RE3, Avatar, Shadow Of The Tomb Raider, Watch Dogs Legion. I’m a graphics nerd, not someone cracked at CSGO.
Scrotum_Monster13@reddit
Keep in mind that most of these people who use "fake frames" don't understand that their OLED displays use BFi to make up for the latency between frames on their LG C series TVs. This is why OLED screens are HORRIBLE for judder and stutter and are globally KNOWN for it. XD LoL!! (Which has the same gross effect as "fAkE fRaMeS", but without Ai slapping a real full image together in between).
I've been an electronics specialist (displays) for many decades. This is why I push people to stop reading the spec sheets. They don't fully understand what most of the details mean. They just love comparing numbers and arguing without the background knowledge.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
I hadn't really considered this important aspect before, so thank you! I want to avoid finding myself in a situation where all the 4080 graphics cards are sold out or overpriced if the 50xx series could be a flop. Alternatively, if the 5070 turns out to be a great option, I don't want to miss out and see them vanish off the shelves like fresh buns.
PossesedZombie@reddit
There will always be someone selling one somewhere, it’s just a matter of price and priority.
I doubt 40 series would flop since NVIDIA will do whatever to configure their game-ready drivers towards the 50-series. If it flops hard, they will probably engage their backup plan, release a “beast” based on the 50 series. Or AMD push their prices even lower while at the same time beating NVIDIA. Then you could go for AMD!
I see RTX2070 for 250€~ in my country now when it was originally 850€ back then. I doubt a used graphics card can remain its value😅
Alasio@reddit
Then why not consider AMD? They prioritize raw rasterization power and the 9070XT looks like it’ll be competing in the 5070-5070Ti range. Should be cheaper too.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
I understand, and I considered it too. As I said, I have decided to go for Nvidia because of a few points:
- I need a card that can handle well local AI runs
- I actually like Nvidia's approach and integration with AI, and their apps and GeForce Experience app too.
- Better RT: I want RT to look good.
- Nvidia's connector: I know people dislike it, but I like the new GPU connector; I think that just one (I think it is a 12-pin) connector is an perfect solution for cable management.
- As long as AMD makes better CPUs, I believe Nvidia makes better GPUs
Alasio@reddit
That’s fair. Honestly without benchmarks, it’s hard to compare the 5070 but I expect the 4070 Super and 5070 to be similar. If you can find a 4070 Super at msrp then I’d get that to avoid waiting. Otherwise the 5070 would be the logical pick.
Mandleaf@reddit (OP)
Thanks for your help. I will consider it!
ArsenyPetukhov@reddit
Get the 5070. Or better yet try get some money while you wait to get 5070ti so you won’t run into issues at 4k
theboywithno@reddit
Save and get something future proof like the 1660 was you said your comfortable make sure you get something that cans push the refresh rate of your monitor without dipping on highest settings But you don’t need the best card in the same breath you will either chose a card balanced with your cpu or go for a overkill bottleneck