The DOGE Dilemma: Does Elon Stand A Chance?
Posted by HotFoxedbuns@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 14 comments
Interesting discussion on how D.O.G.E plans to make impact on federal spending. There will be a lot of focus on cutting federal agencies from making up and enforcing regulations. There is still a uphill climb with Congress and its budget however.
ConscientiousPath@reddit
I think he's going to find out really quickly that he doesn't have the latitude he's used to having when running a company. There's going to be all kinds of stupid litigation over every little thing that DOGE tries to force other agencies to do against the will of the people running them, regardless of whether the things he attempts to do have merit or not.
jasont3260@reddit
He doesn’t have ANY latitude. DOGE is not a government agency. It has zero authority to force any agency to do anything. DOGE is no different than RAND. it will be a think tank that will make suggestions to the administration and Congress but has no ability to enforce any of its suggestions.
ConscientiousPath@reddit
Obviously it doesn't exist today cause Trump isn't even in office yet. But Trump can freely delegate as much authority as he wants out of what the office of President has which is significant. We'll have to wait and see.
jasont3260@reddit
That’s not how it works. The President can’t just delegate governmental power to a non government entity. He would have to make it a government agency under the Executive Branch which involves congressional approval, appropriations, creation of personnel positions…..there’s more to it than just tapping a sword on Musk’s shoulders and naming him a government employee. If that were the case the Democrats would have given the Sierra Club the authority to deny development and construction projects themselves rather than having to petition TRUE government agencies like the EPA. Additionally, even if he made Musk a government employee, no one the works for Musk would have any authority whatsoever.
The fact is the DOGE is a non issue. It’s the ultimate trolling of the left. There are much bigger issues to be worried about that the President actually has the legal authority to do than some think tank. Musk is a troll and will get bored with it pretty quick anyway when he realizes he doesn’t have the authority to just shit down parts of the government and move on like you can in the private sector. Focusing on the DOGE is just feeding the trolls as DOGE will have zero authority to act or enforce any law or regulation and is a huge distraction from real issues that are more concerning as a libertarian.
ConscientiousPath@reddit
You're thinking of this way too formally. The president has wide latitude to restructure his cabinet staff underneath the handful of secretaries that congress has to approve, and appoints--without needing congressional approval--thousands of people within days of getting into offices for all sorts of leadership positions in the government's agencies, who can then restructure beneath themselves again without congressional involvement. For example one way to get a de facto DOGE might be to put the people you want forming it into all those leadership positions and then have those who would normally be considered the leader hired as "under" them as the vice leader instead. Any set of rules can be gamed. You just have to be creative determined and resourceful enough.
Ultimately the government only has to follow its own rules to the extent that the people appointed in the executive branch agree on an interpretation of what the rules are. Congress nominally makes the wording of the rules, but since the executive branch carries them out, they get to interpret as hard as they want to. At most the courts might tell them months or years later that their interpretation was wrong and they have to stop. But there again it's the executive branch carrying out the will of the court, and determining what any "new" interpretation will be until they get dragged through court again.
The whole circularity of the logic of restraint is how they've been able to accomplish all sorts of unconstitutional and beyond-their-remit things that have happened in the last few decades. It's how they effected the lockdowns during the 'rona. It's how the ATF has recently attempted to completely change the "rule" that defines what a pistol brace is and retroactively make millions of sold products illegal without a tax stamp--all without any congressional legislation whatsoever. It's how Trump banned bump-stocks last time he was in office (though that one's been at least partly reversed).
Congress, and to a lesser extent the courts, have voluntarily delegated more and more of their powers to the executive branch over the last 100 years or so. I don't claim to know which tricks they will use to interpret the law in order to give DOGE power---nor if he will even follow through on the idea. But there's no reason to doubt that Trump can do a lot more than nothing if he really wants to.
And finally let's not pretend that it's impossible to get Congress to approve a new agency or increase funding if Republicans decide that sounds like a popular thing to do. If the politicians in congress do it "right," they could even subvert DOGE into just another layer of bureaucratic power for them to wield instead of being the paring-down force that Trump, Elon and friends have been saying it will be. We'll see what everyone does, but there's no reason to say they won't do anything.
Both parties actually do put their friends into the EPA and other agencies when they're in power through the appointment powers of the presidency. But it doesn't get reported and it's specific individual cronies rather than the entire Sierra Club, whose agenda as an organization isn't in line with the real agenda of Democrats anyway. The fact that the EPA and other agency's behaviors don't usually swing wildly between administrations is more to do with how similar the two major parties really are in their inner thoughts, and how slow it is to change huge organizations from the top
gumby_twain@reddit
You’re not wrong, but it’s still worth a try. Find some low hanging fruit. Get easy wins. Find areas of lower resistance, work them and win some more supporters.
MasterDump@reddit
Would that low-hanging fruit be... school lunches? Childcare? Cancer research? Why are these "wins"? You have to have heard what those clowns have already proposed to cut... if not, please dig in. Nothing they're proposing to axe will even come close to balancing the budget. But people will suffer.
I just don't understand how anyone takes this Doge charade seriously, it is a complete farce, yet has the potential to destroy lives. You wanna roll the dice on these psychos, go for it. But holy shit, what a childish move to trust these grifting pieces of shit.
IamManfred@reddit
All I can think about these days watching the public melding of our politicians and billionaires is Ayn Rand's books, especially Atlas Shrugged. Were just seeing money and incompetence lead the way trying desperately to protect their positions of power. Usually, I enjoy going back for a re-read every now again, but since I'm living the plot these days, feels unnecessary.
Fair_Performance_251@reddit
Fuck Elon he’s a grifter
DrElvisHChrist0@reddit
If Gump really wants to do something useful, he'll dissociate himself from Enron Musk and sick all the powers of the DOJ onto him.
Fair_Performance_251@reddit
He won’t Daddy Elon pays too well
Hakkeshu@reddit
I dunno https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-elon-musk-maggie-haberman_n_677d3009e4b0baeb8f9aabbc if he's vocalizing it he's been thinking about it far longer.
CrueltySquadMODTempt@reddit
I hate the fact that we have a guy who is essentially a rich oligarch in government soon, the founder of Fascism described his ideology as the merging of government and corporate leaders. I don't like how this is going to turn out.
DrElvisHChrist0@reddit
Besides the fact that he's nothing but a conman who is totally incompetent when it comes to business, whatever he tries to do will meet with roadblocks thrown up by those that have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.