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Ok_Adhesiveness3950@reddit

It's a similar issue in plenty places in UK, housing vs air bnb+ holiday homes.

Too many of the latter ramp up cost of property and reduce 'living' population.

We all need to try for the right balance.

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There are thousands and thousands of hotels in Spain catered towards tourists, yet the rise in Airbnbs is raising the price and making it more difficult to find an apartment for Spanish people. It's a case of "stay in your lane" - there are plenty hotel rooms to go around which don't negatively impact the locks population.

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wosmo@reddit

I think the problem with airbnb that's often missed, is that it makes it much more difficult to regulate the numbers.

If you believe an area is suffering from over-tourism, you stop giving planning permission for new hotels, and cap the numbers. The whole supply-demand thing means visitors end up paying more - which is good for the local economy. You start attracting more people who can afford resturaunts, and less stag parties living out of a saucepan, etc.

Of course that sucks if you're trying to vacation on a stag party budget, but it is what it is - they want visitors who spend money.

airbnb represent a leak in this. If you stop giving planning permission for more hotels, you just get more short-term rentals. If the prices start going up, you just start getting more short-term rentals. The number of visitors doesn't stop increasing, and rentals start replacing housing.

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walkthelands@reddit

Worth mentioning that in Spain (specifically the Canaries) potential AirBnB owners have to apply for the license. They then have a sign outside which shows that the apartment/house is a registered vacation property. vacation properties normally have a plaque with a "V" on the outside. Issuing authority can then decide whether a certain area has too many holiday lets.

You will often see other letters which correspond to restaurants/bars etc - again, because they need to apply fore the license.

I have noticed a lot of foreign owned properties renting out as AirBnB dont have this which only exasperates the issue.

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woodseatswanker@reddit

There seems to be a bit of a pendulum swing away from AirBnb in recent times, I personally never find them worth the hassle and hidden charges and apart from having access to a kitchen which I never really end up using they seem increasingly redunant.

Locals will never be bothered about a Hotel full of Brits that never leave the complex but employs plenty of locals, they will be bothered that old town centre's are empty of locals cos we will pay £150/night on a flat worth £400/month to locals

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OutdoorApplause@reddit

Now I have a kid I'm back to preferring AirBnbs or other renting apartments/houses after a period of preferring hotels.

My toddler is in bed by 7pm so in a hotel that means sitting in a dark room or stuck on the balcony from 7pm every night. Having accommodation with a separate space for after her bedtime makes the holiday a lot more enjoyable for us adults.

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Remote-Pool7787@reddit

Um yeah, there are apartment complexes that are build for tourists

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Silver-Appointment77@reddit

Im the same. After adopting my grandson I prefer an place I can have seperate bedrooms, and a kitchen for picky kid meals and snacks, or just to make a cuppa. Then Im not running around all day looking for places that cook chicken nuggets and chips :P

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Atinypigeon@reddit

They are annoyed at rich guiris going there and buying properties and renting them for way more than they should be.

They are annoyed at tourists going there and getting pissed and then going on like a bunch of idiots, fighting and pissing in the streets.

If you go there and are respectful to them and their country, the majority won't care. If you also learn Spanish or at least some words, they will treat you a lot better (I've noticed this myself, speaking Spanish with them).

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blob8543@reddit

Just pointing out a couple of things.

There's an activist movement in Spain fighting against specific aspects of mass tourism but not everyone supports this. There are regions and cities where mass tourism is absolutely essential to their economy, there are lots of individuals are making money off renting property on Airbnb and well there are plenty of people who just don't care about the issue.

The 100% tax on foreign owned property is unlikely to ever become law. It's an idea floated by the president who leads a minority government that needs the backing of lots of small parties to get any law passed. A law so controversial will probably be blocked by some of these parties.

Realistically the only change I think we'll see in Spain in the next months/years with regards to tourism is minor restrictions to Airbnb.

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NuclearCleanUp1@reddit

I've been to spain and most spanish people are ambivalent to UK tourists.

What they don't like is: over tourism, drunk tourists and higher house prices in desirable areas.

If you go to a smaller city or more in the middle of spain, they will be more welcoming but you might have to learn more spanish!

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MitLivMineRegler@reddit

You can actually get surprisingly far with surprisingly little Spanish. Spending some time learning in preparation for holiday was 100% worth it for me. Same goes for Italian - they're incredibly patient and good at understanding broken Italian, putting in the effort in appreciation for the effort you put in to learn, at least that was my experience living in Parma.

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wales-bloke@reddit

It shows respect for their culture & a level of basic decency.

I cringe with embarrassment at the way some brits act abroad. We're not superior. Nobody owes us the ability to speak English.

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J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A@reddit

I cringe with embarrassment at the way some brits act abroad.

"2 large beer-o mate, and 2 egg-o and chips!".

Usually spoken slowly and loudly while pointing at pictures.

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nubz7363@reddit

Where the hell do you go on holiday to encounter these delinquent types?

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wales-bloke@reddit

Exactly this. Along with the assumption that someone is thick if they can't speak English... when said tourist is in that person's fucking country.

I remember a news article last year about a woman who went to Benidorm and complained there were too many Spanish people.

A British woman has claimed her holiday to Benidorm was ruined because her hotel had 'too many Spaniards in it'

Freda Jackson, 81, said that Spanish people should go somewhere else for their holidays and she cried at the end of her two-week trip.

10b0b@reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/NorfFc/s/UR5LzsMUHg

I’m in Italy now, before I came here I learnt Chinese, just to mess with them

A clearly British man babbling in Chinese with a Welsh accent. Nice

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Don_Alosi@reddit

"guarda bambino, this is what reading pizza with pineapple does to you"

Horrified children face

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sprucay@reddit

Hah, most of the time I give it a go, they wait for me to finish and then confirm what I've asked in English

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Glorinsson@reddit

Happened to me. Turns out the waitress was English working at her uncles restaurant in Spain.

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Karazhan@reddit

Can confirm, Türkiye and Greece are similar. I can speak moderate Turkish, basic Greek (and can write, only in all caps, but it counts). I only learned these because I used to go a lot and found it fun. The appreciation for even the most basic of phrases is a lot, and sometimes you end up learning the fun words that they don't put on webpages :D

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MitLivMineRegler@reddit

Absolutely, you don't need to learn a lot, you don't even have to get it right, just learn enough to know how to ask for things and respond to the most common questions. Once you're there, you'll find yourself looking up words a lot on preparation or after hearing them, and you can combine the vocabulary with the basic verbs you learned (things like: this, I'd like, where is, what is, how much, basic numbers, excuse me etc).

Nobody is gonna make fun of your broken foreign language skills - or very few at least. Like you say, it can make for some great positive interactions and you'll stand out from the stereotype.

In some countries like NL and Nordics it's less necessary as they already speak English and won't have the patience to speak in a language you're not fluent in, but in most countries, especially south, I find even if they know some English, if you can engage in x language you'll be much appreciated, even if you end up switching to English later.

Met so many cool people in Italy who invited me in, served me coffee, cake, even dinner. One guy even gave me some weed (which is hella expensive in Italy). In Spain (Las Palmas/Gran Canaria) I found they were extra nice to me cause I struggled to speak their language instead of them having to struggle to speak mine. That's despite GC having more tourists than they have the capacity for without pricing out some of the locals.

Kudos to you for learning some basic Turkish and Greek! That's even harder.

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Ok_Raspberry5383@reddit

Interestingly Brits and Spaniards aren't that dissimilar when it comes to how we behave abroad from the perspective of 3rd party countries. In Amsterdam they've launched a major marketing campaign regarding drinking specifically aimed at Spanish and British males aged 20-40.

I totally get what you’re saying! It’s true that in popular tourist spots, locals can feel overwhelmed by the crowds and some behaviors. But exploring smaller towns is such a great idea!

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Choo_Choo_Bitches@reddit

but you might have to learn more spanish!

The Spaniard I worked with finds our tendency to towards "balconing" (jumping to our deaths off hotel balcony, because we're pissed and showing off to our mates) fucking hilarious. He previously lived in an area in the middle of Spain, devoid of people of all nationalities, Spanish included, much less tourists. He definitely had no hate for tourists, he just found it funny.

I quite like this ask Spain thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/askspain/comments/1gfkubm/impression_of_british_tourists_in_spain/

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mpanase@reddit

They might be ambivalent when they speak with a tourist.

I've got lifelong friends in Spain. They don't like most Brit tourists; they usually get the cheap and disturbing ones.

It's very usual to hear "alli no volvemos, habia un monton de ingleses".

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Suitable-Ad2831@reddit

Agree with this.

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Sea_Collar4817@reddit

I'm guessing the tourist haters are just a vocal minority of twats But to be fair

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Smooth-Bowler-9216@reddit

A large chunk of their economy is based on tourism, so I doubt they would fully push tourists out. Spain is also big enough to manage large numbers of tourism, given it has something for all across the country (in a way tiny Venice isn't).

It appears the issue is concentrated to housing, specifically how Air B'n'B is causing increases in housing costs for locals. The simple answer is to either tax the hell out of these kinds of ventures, or ban Air B'n'B in the country/tourist hotspots.

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Puzzleheaded_Fold665@reddit

Air bnb should be heavily taxed with profits going to the local areas. It's been a money maker for a few new millionaires.

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KnarkedDev@reddit

Hence pricing out the working class from holidays?

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ooooomikeooooo@reddit

Hotels etc are fine. They are purpose built for tourists without taking away the housing stock for locals to live and work in those tourist destinations.

We have the same problem in the UK in places like Cornwall where house prices are way above incomes for the area due to all the houses being bought up as rentals of second homes.

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Specialist-Guitar-93@reddit

I live in the same part of the UK as you and you walk down a terrace in some areas and half of them are empty/run down/squalid. The numbers round here don't reflect the national numbers of occupancy.

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michaelisnotginger@reddit

The UK has the highest rate of house occupancy in Europe. It's a myth

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The_39th_Step@reddit

It seems like it from my experience

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ExpensiveArmadillo77@reddit

Over half of London is foreign owned or owned by first generation immigrants who moved here.

We wonder why London's house prices are so high but the same thing literally happens everywhere across the world where foreigners are given easy access to purchase property.

A similar situation in Mexico too with property prices slowly being driven up too high for the average Mexican to pay for them because rich Americans are moving in as if it's some cheap paradise, because relative to them it is cheap. It's an inevitable scenario where many Mexicans are seeing the writing on the wall but none of them will stop it because the Americans are held on a pedestal there.

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hopefullforever@reddit

Don’t think the a lot of the UK residents can afford the multi million £ houses the Saudis can

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Ignition0@reddit

Offer and demand. The seller will sell the house to the maximum he can sell it, and the Saudi will outbid you.

Without Saudis, if they want to sell the house they will need to sell the house.

Thats what happened in Spain. Plenty of Germans, Dutch and Russians & Ukranians offering to pay more to get a house, outbidding most of the locals.

I know somehow who bought 5 years ago, the seller wanted 480K and it was renegotiated down to 420K because the seller wanted to sell and local salaries means not so many people can pay that much.

Now comes a rich guy who wants to buy to rent (or worst, make an airbnb) and offerrs 500k to buy it in a week time.

One less flat available to the local population, reducing the offer and therefore increasing the prices, because at the end people want to own a house.

Spain ownership rate is 76%, UK is 53%, but if prices stay high, less people will be able to afford it.

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ItWasTheChuauaha@reddit

I've never visited Spain. I can understand why Spanish people have had a gutsful of the dickheads getting wasted etc. That said, I'd never visit because of not being welcome. I think at the end of the day, Spain is for the Spanish. However, I do think the tourist industry has taken a huge hit there. Why go spend money somewhere you're loathed and unwelcome?

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We both love a foreign excursion

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Nosferatatron@reddit

Brits on average have less money now and lots of resorts are trying to go upmarket and lose their chavvy Brit customers

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yellowflux@reddit

Spain is a big place. No everywhere is driven by “booze tourism”

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Fresh_Relation_7682@reddit

I think people are misunderstanding the distinction. Places like Benidorm are pretty much already gone to tourists and the spanish largely have adapted to this. When I lived in Valencia some of my spanish friends wanted to go to Bendiorm precisely to laugh at the drunk sunburnt tourists.

Airbnbs are the latest thing reddit has a hate boner for. In some places it's warranted, but you get people on here demanding any kind of holiday letting scheme be banned.

BillyBeansprout@reddit

No. I have had a rich life steeped in culture and travel, still the hoots to be had from scorning the sunburnt piss artists in Benidorm has great appeal. As does joining them. All is possible.

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

That's exactly it. Spanish people go to Benidorm on holiday too, many have second homes there or elsewhere. They're fine with tourist resorts being touristy, they don't want the cities they live and work in to also become resorts.

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Minimum_Rice555@reddit

We try to regulate even our internal tourism, now places in the south usually close at midnight. Imagine living an active and working life if you have a terrace open until 3 am near you, full of music and loud drunk people.

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Pizzagoessplat@reddit

I highly doubt that. Spain attracts a hell of a lot more to tourists other than the typical pissed up Brit.

The pissed up Brit has no interest in Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia or any other city in Spain to learn about their culture apart from San Miguel. It's embarrassing that we've got this reputation all over Europe

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Goldf_sh4@reddit

Spain holidays are also great for families with young children.

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Smooth-Bowler-9216@reddit

Magaluf changed policy to reduce boozing.

Mallorca is also a great example. Outside of Magaluf it’s sensible tourism. No reason that this can’t apply elsewhere.

The louts will just have to find another place to go.

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Anony_mouse202@reddit

TLDR: they want to have their cake and eat it.

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HiddenFolder1@reddit

Its possible to have a party atmosphere without copious drug use and binge drinking violence and vandalism

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Gisschace@reddit

You need to look at it like Blackpool v Edinburgh, Blackpool wants and needs tourists, it is set up to cater to them and most of the jobs rely on it.

The main purpose is to address a perception that small time landlords are wildly contributing to the housing shortage that Spain currently faces. The bbc news said it was something like 27,000 homes which doesn’t seem like a huge amount in the grand scheme to me.

There are endless 'proposals' made by random mad politicians in Spain, just there are in other countries.

They rarely ever, ever become anything.

Whoisthehypocrite@reddit

How can Airbnb change anything unless people are going on holidays far more than before. People have been renting holiday houses for decades. You used to get a big book of cottages from a travel agent, now you go on Airbnb.

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CheeryBottom@reddit

Same in the Lake District.

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MotherofTinyPlants@reddit

& lots of Wales too (although second homes in general are causing problems there).

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Rosssseay@reddit

The issues here is not necessarily British people but the huge amount of property that is obtained for property rental by foreign investors much like in the UK and other countries.

If the restriction was on Spanish residents only they would lose the rest of Europe such as Germany, Italy and The Nordics buying holiday property and bringing in tourist revenue.

There are a lot of Asian and other investors that buy property and rent it out through Airbnb and similar as the investment is safe and the additional money is good for them. This completely prices locals out and creates issues similar to those we have in the UK but more specifically places like Cornwall.

Taxing non residents owning private residences is good policy. They are trying to stop same thing happening in London. Rich corrupt people park their money in real estate in the UK and artificially inflating housing costs. New Zealand prohibited non residents buying real estate a few years back.

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Nosferatatron@reddit

Many countries have woken up to the fact that foreigners buying houses pushes the prices up and means locals can't afford them. See: Cornwall, Pembrokeshire, Edinburgh, Canada, Portugal, Berlin, Barcelona, Majorca, Ibiza, Australia. I could probably go on

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Cold94DFA@reddit

Good for them, the UK should learn from it.

warp_driver@reddit

That's exactly the point, locals don't want to live there. Go do a road trip of the southern European countryside, there are abandoned villages everywhere.

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derpyfloofus@reddit

These should be the new tourism destinations then.

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mustard5man7max3@reddit

And that would create jobs, which would get locals to stay/ move in, who then get annoyed at all the tourists.

The jobs go where the tourists do. The villages which still have locals to complain are the ones who've had an influx of Airbnbs, hotels, hostels, etc.

Respectfully, most foreigners just don't get how we want to live our lives. We don't want to be like UK, Germany or some other northern country. We are not that materialistic, and not chasing money. If having less tourism means less money, most people would be fine with that.

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darktourist92@reddit

Hey you guys do you. No judgment from me, whatever makes you all happy.

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Healthy-Drink421@reddit

I think the thing is - they aaaaare moving away from tourism. The Spanish innovation, R&D, finance, tech, and manufacturing sectors are actually doing quite well. So Spaniards do have options, and are now only seeing the negatives of tourism in a lack of housing, water shortages etc etc.

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Ok_Cow_3431@reddit

they aaaaare moving away from tourism

People are blaming Air BnB and from the rough numbers I remember they take up about 3% of the available properties,

3% across the entire city concentrated in a few central neighbourhoods is still destroying them

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Mountain_Strategy342@reddit

It is only the last 60 odd years that tourisme has been such a big partnof the economy. For the half a millennia before that it was trading, war and colonialism

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OctopusIntellect@reddit

To be fair, the Spanish Empire fell apart from 1808 onwards, and effectively ceased to exist in 1898. Before that, Spain was only doing much the same as so many other nations have over the centuries.

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PsychologicalScars@reddit

They still continued neocolonial projects in North Africa (in which they are still partially involved- cf Western Sahara) post-1898. But the Spanish empire was at its economic, extractive peak in the 1500s. They had an economic crisis as early as the turn of the 17th century.

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bisikletci@reddit

tourism has historically been a huge part of Spain's economy.

True, but it's traditionally been beach tourism and the loke, in places that otherwise haven't been that desirable/popular to live.

Now it's turning major thriving cities with long-standing large local populations, such as Barcelona (in particular), into horrendously expensive theme parks. That's what people are mostly objecting to, not tourism more generally (though there are also separate concerns about environmental sustainability when it comes to resorts, golf courses and so on.

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Gluecagone@reddit

Tourism can exist without every other building being converted into a airbnb and the city becoming a theme park. Most Spanish people realism how heavily the country relies on tourism. The issue is the government letting toursim become so unsustainable. It needs clamping down but that doesn't mean getting rid of tourism.

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Well, customers not worrying about the fact that they are taking advantage of corporate greed, and defending it so they don’t lose out.

Let’s not act as though customers are child-like innocents who only want a better world. They know what they’re doing, it’s just a convenient excuse to blame the corporations for allowing you to buy from them.

The responsibility for buying stuff is your own. Caveat emptor.

Don’t blame the salesman because you don’t bother to think about what he is selling you, because it’s such a great offer you’d be crazy to turn it down. Your unsustainable lifestyle is your choice from what they offer you.

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Cookyy2k@reddit

99% of customers never think of/don't acre about any of these considerations. They just buy product that looks the best/cheapest. That's how things like amazon, fast fashion, and diamond jewlry makes so much money.

The other side is the corporations do have to ability to prioritise ethics over profit. AirBnB could enforce licensing requirements on its hosts, it could restrict density etc. The issue is that would be more expensive and open them up to competition going for the profits.

The whole thing (along with so many problems we face) is a giant tragedy of the commons.

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Only-Butterscotch785@reddit

Tourism is not a great economic sector. Its great when you also have other profitable sectors as a bonus, but relying on it is basically a guarantee to get stuck in a lower-middle income trap.

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SnooWords6460@reddit (OP)

I agree as it pushes their locals out to prioritise tourism which shouldn’t be the case! But I do wonder your latter part as they rely heavily on tourism

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-Hi-Reddit@reddit

Didn't Spain accidentally build wayyyy too many properties?

Last I heard their housing market is only just starting to show some sign of recovery.

So surely there are plenty of vacant properties suitable for immigrants and tourism?

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tulki123@reddit

I don’t think it was accidental but there was a period after the financial crisis where there was a lot of government sponsored building. The age old “boost the economy trick” that everyone has tried at some point (see German autobahn).

It’s fantastic at first as you get lots of things built you need, then you have a problem of “what shall we build now” and housing is always a winner. Just means it needs to sit vacant for a while if you build too much.

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Thepeterborian@reddit

Similar situation to what has happened in the UK. Foreigners have bought loads of housing, which has provided short term economic benefits. But now it has pushed locals away, priced them out and it’s having a detrimental impact on the culture and quality of life.

Spain has realised that it is failing to deliver its social contract to its people. I really wish Britain would do the same.

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cbawiththismalarky@reddit

Having lived in Barcelona for six years I can tell you that the rental situation is bonkers, I rented a flat in Eixample and the rent went from €800 in 2014/2015 to €1500 in 2020/2021, in that time the number of "professional" AirBNBs went through the roof. While i could afford that my local friends were priced out and they were very annoyed.

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Cookyy2k@reddit

In summer 2024 ther3 qere 12,715 active Airbnb listings in Barcelona, that's insanity and no wonder people are getting pissed off about the costs flying up on the back of it.

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SeparatedI@reddit

1.6 million people live in Barcelona. Sorry but no, 12k Airbnbs did not double the rent in 10 years rofl

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Ok-Ship812@reddit

There are about 300K apartments in Barna not counting houses and thats before you count Hospitalet next door. 12K is a lot but its still around 3% of the housing supply. However these flats are concentrated in specific areas and have contributed to gentrification of those neighborhoods and have indeed forced people out.

Yep, it's self defeating to say the least but they were fed up with boorish Brits wandering drunk and half naked around the high street making locals uncomfortable. As usual with this kind of thing, the solution is an overreaction.

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itsYaBoiga@reddit

Honestly, with the way a lot of Brits act in places like Spain - could you blame them?

Imagine your typical Brit if a group of loud, obnoxious foreigners were drunkenly shouting and fighting on the streets - and then just talking at you in their language and just speaking slower and louder like that'll just magically unlock the ability to speak their language?

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mralistair@reddit

No. Spain is Europes biggest holiday destination and a huge chunk of their economy.

But they want people in hotels, which are designed for that, not using up housing that the locals need.

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TeaProgrammatically4@reddit

Cornwall council is going to be charging extra council tax for airbnb type properties, I'd like to think that will decrease the prevalence of holiday lets in the area of the country with the largest disparity between wages and house prices. I don't think it goes far enough though.

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springsomnia@reddit

I go to Spain almost every year and have never felt any hostility or negativity towards me as a tourist. Spain is in fact one of my favourite countries to visit. I completely get their frustration however, many people in touristy places here like Cornwall feel the same way.

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ClumsyandLost@reddit

Maybe we need to stop using normal residential properties for tourism. Stay in hotels and on sites that are designed for tourists. We have the same problem in places like Cornwall, where locals can't get properties because so many are used as Airbnbs.

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JamesTiberious@reddit

As a tourist I don’t feel I’m being pushed away and enjoy visiting Spain. Have never felt any hostility toward me as a tourist.

There seems to be an increasing problem with lack of available rents for residents, so I can absolutely understand why they want to clamp down on the likes of airbnbs, holiday rentals and vacant or poorly utilised 2nd holiday homes.

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Less_Mess_5803@reddit

It's a shame we haven't done the same thing in the uk with 2nd homes / air bnbs where people a tally need homes to live in. It's not a golden bullet to housing issues but it's a start.

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crucible@reddit

Some areas have started:

https://www.gov.wales/council-tax-empty-and-second-homes-html

Since 1 April 2017, local authorities in Wales have been able to charge a premium of up to 100% of the standard rate of council tax on long-term empty dwellings and dwellings occupied periodically (more commonly referred to as second homes) in their areas. From 1 April 2023, the maximum level at which local authorities can set council tax premiums will increase to 300%.

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Inkblot7001@reddit

pushing tourists away

Not in the slightest. Be careful of reading some articles and thinking it is big news.

The latest figures are that, especially from the UK, the tourist business in Spain is booming.

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TavernTurn@reddit

It’s the right move, and more governments should be doing it. Build more aparthotels that replicate the Airbnb experience but are run by actual businesses. Locals shouldn’t be priced out of the places they grew up in by tourists. Portugal rapidly needs to follow suit.

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SayuriKitsune@reddit

AirBnb and greedy landlords are the ones to blame, not tourists. Just avoid the big touristic areas, there's so many other places to explore, beach included. The middle is also beautiful and full of history and good food.

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ExpensiveArmadillo77@reddit

Spain has a strong nationalist history where they will stick up for the Spanish citizens first over any other interest.

As much as I love Spain and as upset as I would be that it'd be harder to live there, I fully understand and respect why they would do that and I know that it's the best thing for THEM, even if not for me.

To what extent their nationalism still exists, I'm unsure and I know Spain's political situation is worse than ours at times. But some aspect of it will always underpin the political culture for some time.

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Famous_Obligation959@reddit

Go to Vigo, Salamanca, Leon and enjoy.

Beautiful, friendly, mostly off the tourist grid.

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Agitated-Tourist9845@reddit

I wish local government would introduce policies like this in the UK to get rid of AirBnB/2nd home ownership that is destroying local economies.

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lyta_hall@reddit

I’m from Spain, and my 2 cents:

We don’t like tourists that come for the sole purpose of drinking and trashing the cities. A lot of tourists (many from the UK, but from everywhere) go to Magaluf and other areas and they do drugs, pee in the streets and have questionable behaviour they don’t do back home. We want respectful people that come to have fun respectfully.
Spain (as many other countries) is having huge issues related to housing. Locals are not able to find flats to live in, or are too expensive. In places like the Canary or Balear Islands there is an overmassification that is forcing locals to not find, or afford places to live in the cities because everything is becoming an Airbnb to cater for tourists.
For many years now the main problem with housing has been that foreign investors and companies are buying flats, houses and sometimes entire buildings and virtually kicking out families and locals who cannot afford to live there anymore. In the few instances where older people with old rents (that are cheap) resisted, they’ve been pushed out of their flats by these vultures who want to sell whole buildings for profit. It’s a massive struggle.

The Government is not doing enough, imo. The things they announced the other day are nowhere near the strict legislation we need if we ever need to tackle the actual issues.

It’s not about not wanting tourists. It’s much more than that.

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mpanase@reddit

Spain is trying to drive the cheap British tourism away, indeed.

AirBnB accomodations seems to be an issue in most places, the short stay party types who leave the place in a mess.

The 100% tax is, at the moment, just a proposal.

Spanish people don't hate tourists, they just don't want to be priced out of buying a house, which in (mainly) what all this is about.

If you look at what's actually going on with houses, especially in the cities, it's big companies buying out entire apartment blocks and renting them out to tourists. Quite often it's Spanish companies who are doing this. Regular Spanish people trying to buy a flat/house are rightly pissed off about this.

This problem isn't unique to Spain, it's happening everywhere people can get away with it.

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Parshath_@reddit

From my understanding (living the UK, culturally originally close to Spain) - I don't think they are, but Spain has some concerns that are not being addressed, which raises frustration.

From one side, I'm getting bombarded by news and articles aimed at creating reactions, stoking hatred and online anger, comments in social media, probably stoking some UK vs Europeans angles, etc.

From the Spanish side, I'd say it's a mix at frustration at the housing situation, and the mass tourism behaviour.

Housing: as most areas, jobs end up concentrating in bigger places, and that's where tourism is, and locals are pushed out or completely away. Grannies who lived their entire life are pushed away, I was financially pushed away from my hometown too, and it becomes a struggle - good examples in the UK are not just London, but Wales, Cornwall, Southern fishing villages, York, etc. The Airbnb and tourism industry is turning working-class housing into short-term housing all over the richer countries. As an example, I was applying for a job in my industry (service) in a small city in South Spain, and looking at housing around, there were NO flats at all with full-year contracts, only "only for rent September - May contracts".

Much of this ends up reshaping the paradigm of who can buy and own houses, and alters the local culture, shops, etc, and that is faced with resistance.

Mass tourism behaviour is also something brought up every time Spain and tourism is discussed. Lousy and drunken behaviour is frowned upon, and many people go on holidays to binge drink and act loud, or destructive, and overall treating locals (who have to get up for work the next day) like NPCs. If one wouldn't go to their granny's neighbourhood for a big loud hen do and trash the place at 3am, why would one other granny across the continent enjoy it? Of course, this is a loud minority that affects how locals view a group of people and the tourist activity, and creates some stereotyping and caricatures - just exactly like it is done everywhere else.

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Dranask@reddit

Air BNB is a major part of the problem in a lot of countries including the UK talk to someone from the southwest or Wales.

I agree that property purchases for profit rather than personal occupancy need some sort of control or limitation. If locals can’t live there because there are half empty houses. Then who’s going to serve the tourists?

Options include increase to stamp duty on purchase, maybe something as simple as 5% as an additional amount on all properties that are not purchased for personal occupation. Money should go to local authorities to support them not national government

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fartbraintank@reddit

Pissed off with the price of everything

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ShadowLickerrr@reddit

Before they were being used as Air BnB’s they were owned by drug gangs forcing locals out, so if they want to go back to that they can. Just don’t go begging for tourists when it happens, fuck Barcelona. Used to love the place but after seeing how they treat tourists they can fuck off.

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flashdonut@reddit

TBH it is the same with British in Britain. Seaside resorts such as Whitby want the tourists. They don't want people buying 3 or 4 properties and renting them out.

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Snaggl3t00t4@reddit

I have always felt unwelcome in Spain. This is no change. How dare i try to enjoy their cities and spend money. But, more recently this appears to have become worse on TV at least/news programmes. But, when the tourist money dries up and they are on their arse they will be different.

Portugese couldn't be nicer though....

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Madrid is the only place I've ever been pickpocketed (for some cheap sunglasses).

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Majestic_Matt_459@reddit

Spain want people to use registered Hotels and self catering as they should

Airbnb is a curse that has caused terrible problems

Good for them

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The UK needs to do something very similar, imo

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fabulousmarco@reddit

What are people’s thoughts about the stance Spain are taking on people outside? Interested to hear

Have you considered asking someone from Spain?

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Gluecagone@reddit

I'm a EU citizen with dual British citizenship and spend a lot of time in Spain. I agree with their frustrations. Granted a lot of it is actually diverted towards the government allowing airbnd to spiral out of control so the housing market is a mess. As somebody else said, the Spanish seem to be ambivalent towards tourists and the one who spray people with water are actually a small minority.

Barcelona is lovely for being Barcelona but it's also a mess because it's a tourist hot spot. It's also one of those hot spots that attracts 'Brits Abroad' types which no country really likes but Spain attracts a lot of them. Don't be a 'Brit Abroad' and learn some basic Spanish (or Catalan for Barcelona) and people will be warm to you (more so in places out of Barcelona).

In a nutshell, tourism is a massive industry in Spain and I don't think the Spanish are pushing foreigners or tourists away. I think they are try to push away a certain type of tourist and also how uncontrolled the tourism industry is when it comes to it's terrible impact on the housing industry.

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TheAdmirationTourny@reddit

The tax you are talking about is because they have to ensure that houses are being lived in. They don't want people buying up houses to use as holiday homes for 4 weeks a year and leaving actual Spanish residents without affordable housing.

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Leonichol@reddit

Sort of.

But realistically it's just electoral nonsense. Vote winner that probably won't address the problem while using a nice defenceless scapegoat out of people that can't vote.

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younevershouldnt@reddit

No, they mostly want tourists but some feel it's gone a bit far and hence you're seeing some pushing back getting a lot of publicity.

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Naive_Roof3085@reddit

I have a holiday home on the Costa Blanca and bought it as a UK resident in 2015. The issue is an EU problem (for Spain), we have about 150 New build apartments near us and they have been bought mainly buy the Scandinavians. Now if we nip to Benidorm for a few days and use an Airbnb, they are either owned by a Spanish person or a Spanish person hands us the keys in the ones we have used. So they want to deprive a Spaniard of either owning/renting or running a business doing the same.

The good old EU which many on here champion won't allow the best solution which would be Spain building housing just for Spanish occupancy.

It’s not just in Spain that these issues exist. The problem comes from a lack of affordable housing for the locals. Amsterdam has cracked down on it as there are too many tourists too. People can’t afford the properties on low wages so have to move further out and the cities become empty of locals socializing and lose the thing people wanted to experience. It’s happening in villages across the Uk where no one can find a job that pays enough to survive due to air b&b which in turn removes local businesses and splits communities as the villages are to quiet most of the time and then young people move to the bigger towns and cities leaving the villages with an aging population

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Additional_Olive3318@reddit

This is a sledgehammer to kill a gnat. Spain just issued a digital nomad visa plan, specifically for non EU residents who could work from anywhere. Not all would want to buy but many would. Seems like a contradiction.

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OldSky7061@reddit

Tourism is not the reason for the issue.

This is: https://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/catalan-parliament-rejects-decree-to-regulate-temporary-rental-apartments

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Cultural_Tank_6947@reddit

It's the housing crisis, so they don't want non residents to buy homes. If you're choosing to buy a home and you will live there, they don't hate you.

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Jiggerypokery123@reddit

That's the case everywhere now.

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BastardsCryinInnit@reddit

No.

Spain isn’t pushing tourists and Brits away.

It's asking for a better kind of tourism that balances with the residents. And that's ok.

It has been on the news that Spain is imposing a 100% tax on non-EU nationals puying houses in Spain

Having family who bought (then sold and came home) in Spain, there'll be a lot of houses bought for like €30k with the rest of the price being a "gift" to the owner or for the furniture.

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Miserable-Ad6941@reddit

I love Spain and have been on holiday there a lot, but I fully understand the whole air b and b situation. It is the same in the UK in places like north wales. I feel for local people that can no longer afford to live in areas where they grew up and have family.

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Savings-Ad9497@reddit

I'd imagine Spanish people are upset they can't buy property in Spain.

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MajorTurbo@reddit

reminds me some other country

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EU citizens have the right to live and work in other EU countries, I’m not sure they could easily apply different property buying laws and taxes to them.

I don’t think the problem is that they don’t like tourism, but they want to find a balance.

Airbnb becomes a huge problem because instead of landlords charging residents reasonable monthly rent (let’s say €1500) they’re able to charge tourists €200/night making €6000/m on a good month.

People buying up property in Spain to use as 2nd homes for their holiblobs a few times a year, with the house remaining vacant the rest of the time, adds to affording housing shortage problems. So now it would seem if you’re not an EU citizen, you will need to pay 100% tax for that privilege. Essentially enough to build another property to replace the one being used as a holiday home.

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one_pump_chimp@reddit

No, but they can't do anything about buyers from within the EU

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Alonso-De-Entrerrios@reddit

My city (Valencia) went from "never been there, but I've heard about your football team", to "your city is fantastic! I can't believe you left!" to foreigners who don't even live there buying flats as "an investment" for rental & holiday rental in barely a decade.

Then I started talking with friends about the subject and they kept mentioning how rents became insane over the last 5 years, and saw how property prices in my neighbourhood duplicated. The salaries there are quite low, so asking prices around 500k for places valued at 200k less than a decade ago makes you wonder who can afford that.

So my friends, who were born and raised there, either managed to get a place over a decade ago or are all moving out to small towns in the outskirts or renting, and many landlords are foreigners who don't even live in the country.

I am happy with these measures and wish they were even more extreme. Foreign purchases of residential property as an investment should be banned, as well as turning residential property into tourist short-stay apartments. But some people are getting too much quick money out of it.

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Tacklestiffener@reddit

Big cities like Barcelona and Madrid should just follow the example of New York. They have new regulations for rentals under 30 days that effectively make it practically impossible to rent a whole apartment on Airbnb. It's a simple solution.

I think the only reason the 100% tax story made the BBC is because it would affect Brits now. Put it in perspective. There are 17 million homes in Spain and only 27,000 were bought by non-EU people in 2023. It smacks of a government wanting to be seen to be doing something, even if the "something" is a pointless gesture.

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thomasjford@reddit

I agree about their stance on the scourge of AirBnB but without tourism at all Spain would absolutely collapse I imagine.

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Healthy-Drink421@reddit

Spain is questioning whether mass tourism is really right for the country, with property shortages - water shortages, climate change etc etc.

Also probably unnoticed by most Britons outside of the economics world the non- tourist part of the Spanish economy is starting to do very well again, innovation, R&D, manufacturing, and Tech in Barcelona and Madrid are creating better well paid jobs.

They aren't pushing tourists away necessarily. But over-tourism is starting to wreck these places for people who actually live and work there.

Couple that with locals not even being able to live in the city & being pushed out because of the insanely high number of air bnb’s there, it’s no surprise that they’ve reached their limit (after years of gov inaction) and now are pushing it onto tourists.

I also thing the many many years of tensions between Spanish & Catalonians also does not help and is what makes Barca unique

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CthulhuTrees@reddit

I met a Spanish guy from Barcelona on holiday and he hated Airbnb, largely due to how unregulated it was. There’s a fair amount of regulation on hotels, inns and b&bs which takes time and money, so the airbnbs are undercutting a regulated market with unregulated flats which take properties off the market for new buyers. By the time he finished his rant I started hating Airbnb too.

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