Just bought something similar. 04 Ram work truck with a 5.7 and a stickshift in a standard cab body. It needs a ton of work to get rid of the rusted rockers, bed, and doors, but it was $300. I couldn't say no.
Fellas, this is the official r/cars redditor this is the official r/cars out of touch redditor vehicle that would flop so hard it would get a CEO fired lol
Chevy could so easily make a Ranger Raptor competitor that would blow the Ranger away with a V8. Just put the LT1 in a Colorado and everyone will want that over the Ranger.
Kind of missing the point of what makes Raptors Raptors imo- drag racing these things like they're sport trucks is stupid. 0-60 is not what an off road truck is supposed to be about. Power yes, but that's not enough.
I mean sure, but giving a Colorado a 2" Rough Country lift kit and 500hp and drag racing them, the Chevy would win yeah? I want to see them race like, Vegas to Reno off road not 1/4 mile on pavement. You need power to get you up hills and through sand, not for fucking drag racing your lifted pickups like they're the next gen Lighting and Syclone.
CT4 isn't a V8 because when the ATS-V was being developed, the president of Cadillac at the time said the car needed to be a boosted 6 cyl. The engineering team wanted the LT1 for that car.
You joke but, If you ever get a chance to look under the hood of a Ranger Raptor..
You can shove a V8 in it, that 3.0 is not taking up a whole lot of space, and the Aussies have done Coyote swaps..
My 4.3L v6 in my 2000 silverado roasts the tires all the time with an even slightly too hard push on the throttle due to no weight in the rear lol. I'm not complaining by the way, its fun as hell and the truck doesn't even have traction control haha, but if it can do it with like... I'm assuming under 200hp at this point, a 5.7 hemi would be hilariously fun in a smaller light truck!
I had a 2010 Dakota with the Magnum V8 for about 7 years and really liked it. My 2024 Santa Cruz (2.5T) would smoke that thing and gets 2x the mileage. I wanted a midsize RAM, but alas.
She's hurt right now. Cylinder 2 is only at 50psi compression. One of these weekends I'll pull the motor out and pop the head off to see what's going on. At 178k miles it's probably time to freshen up the motor anyway. If the block, crank, and cams look good I might do the STI upgrade and manual swap it. If not I'm not sure. I might just part it out since the interior is in pretty good shape. Depends on how much machine work is needed.
i had a 2004 that ate one of the valves back in the day, was not a good time. STI swap is pretty involved, so if you do end up doing it, I wish you the very best of luck! you gonna stick with the VF39 or go up? probably not reuse your TD04?
Probably VF39. I'd only keep the TDO4 if I decide against an STI swap and just rebuild the motor and sell it. A buddy has a 39 Buick with the straight 8 for sale and it's calling my name. I've had my fun with the Subie so it might be time to let it change hands. I don't have to decide immediately thankfully!
A while back, I got recommended a YouTube video where a guy did a Hellcat swap on a Dakota. That thing was bonkers. There's another one with a new hurricane swap in it.
You could get a Dakota with a 318 ci and the R/T version witha 360 ci. I had a buddy that had a single cab R/T that would run high 10s in the quarter mile. He had some bolt ons and a reprogrammed ECU that woke that 360 up something fierce. This was also nearly 30 years ago.
No forced induction or nitrous. Can't remember if he changed the cam or not. I do remember he daily drove it on Nitto drag radials but had some proper slicks for the track...Hoosiers I believe...maybe some Mickey Thompsons. Been a long time ago. Anyway, our group of friends would run at a drag strip in Gulfport, MS. His truck didn't break into the tens consistently, but would on occasion...was there to see it more than once and the time slips to show it.
Yep. Max you're getting out of a hopped up magnum motor is probably 500 or so and remaining streetable. There are some guys in the 600 and 700s with big stroke 408s and 427s out there but I prefer the street character of a turbo.
First gen in Sport trim with the Magnum 5.2 and 5 speed was such a cool street truck. Second gen was nice in R/T trim, but sharing styling with the Durango was kind of a bummer.
I have a 05 Dodge Dakota club can RWD. Thing is fun. Can spin it pretty easy. But still rides nice on highway. Tranny cost 3k to replace but besides that… never had a single thing go wrong with it.
Man my dad had one, thing was thirsty even for old time gas prices. I think he sold it around the recession and bought a Neon lol. I didn't get it at the time but that was probably one of the sadder days of his life...
The Dakota was the perfect "smaller than a full-size" truck back in the day. It had a full 4' between the wheel tubs in the bed, wasn't a total phone booth in the cab, and, you could option a V8 for maximum patriotic burnouts.
It had a full 4' between the wheel tubs in the bed
All gens of Dakota were just a hair under 4' wide at the wheel wells. The 1st and early 2nd gens did offer an 8' bed, but the vaunted plywood sheet could only be carried above the wells.
The 2nd gen Dakota is one of only two smaller-than-full-size pickups in the US that offered 3 bed and 3 cab sizes in the same generation. But since the regular cab/8' bed left in 1999 and the Quad Cab/5' came in 2000, that means the S-10 is the only model that offered them in the same year.
Chevy offered a slightly modified version of their 5.3 V8 in the Colorado from 2008-2012, and even offered a "sport" suspension package that lowered the truck and added some thicker sway bars and a tighter steering rack. Don't think anyone remembers that truck existing, though.
I'll be the brown Miata wagon in the room but.. I'd very heavily consider buying that. If they could avoid the worst of the FCA quality pitfalls and make back seats big enough for the kids' seats..... Yeah I'd definitely be getting permission for that one.
They cost is pretty close as well. To me it doesn’t make sense for the loss of capability unless their is a specific reason you need want that smaller footprint.
Sure as shit aren’t the mid sized trucks of the 90’s.
Modern full size trucks are huge. Today’s mid-sized trucks are the size of full-sized trucks from 20 years ago. I see more Rangers and Tacos on the road than I see F-150s and Tundras.
Yep, I've always thought the ranger was pointless unless you specifically needed it for the smaller footprint to fit in a garage or parking spot. Colorado isn't quite as beefy but still heavy. I applaud ford for the Maverick though, they did right with their small truck.
Challenger was a decades old platform that required very little development costs to make the hellcat. Not to mention it was a halo product to boost the company name
An all new truck with a V8 would incur enormous costs for the company
I don't know much about the guy but he does actually seem to understand his customer base.
Stallantis really weighed down the fee successful brands Chrysler had with dogshit. I don't see anything wrong with focusing what made RAM trucks popular. Samething goes for jeep.
But the issue is that what that customer base wants is a money sink
Given legal restrictions, the hemi is dead in Europe and Asia, and a niche in South America. And that doesn’t even count the cost of making a next gen for just America again
Not even getting into paying emissions, which at a time of capital thirsty OEMs is basically giving free profit to your direct rivals
It’s not popular, but if I’m Stellantis, I’m investing in something I can sell to Sven in malmo, Juan in Argentina, Zhou in Beijing, and Bettie in sault st Marie rather than something that only exists for one market. A large one, sure, but it’s not like Stellantis is flush for cash right now
All valid points but trying to make Mopar brands global they devalued the market they thrived in. Obviously this is an over simplification. RAM and Jeep kept them alive post 2008 but they've watered them down so hard even the most passionate people are leaving
Spot on. RAM is a US centric brand already. Its competitors are also local. Find me a F150, Silverado or RAM in Southeast Asia, Latin America, Europe. There are like dozens of them. For crying out loud, they simply don’t fit on parking spots, roads.
I think the best thing would have been, have Stellantis form, but just steal the Euro brands and have Fiat, Alfa, and Maserati leave North America. That cash injection could be used to revive the core Jeep/Dodge brand, with Ram being merged back into Dodge
I just don't know why FCA sought this merger out so badly. Yes they were in trouble, but why PSA? Why not go back to Mercedes? Why not basically anyone else?
I just don't know why FCA sought this merger out so badly. Yes they were in trouble, but why PSA? Why not go back to Mercedes? Why not basically anyone else?
PSA wanted a merger as well and FCA was really strugling with electrification while PSA was doing quite well.
Buddy that is all well above my pay grade. I've watched it happen over the last 15 years and none of it made sense. But I don't get paid stupid amounts to suck off shareholders then get paid millions for getting fired
Yeah but in the United States the Hemi engine will be getting sold in 2065 to an 65 year old me who has the money to buy the damn thing and wants a real truck with a real V8.
It's a large ass market and you can just crank out 100,000+ Hemi trucks a year. Or you can give up on the market and go out of business because you don't have a halo tier product.
Cause a fire breathing big balls V8 brings the boys in the door to settle for a V6 at $10k less. And shit, you can charge a massive premium that makes no economical sense for the V8 and it's still gonna sell units and get people in the door.
Stellantis actually has a tremendous amount of cash on hand. One of the lowest debt and highest cash on hand manufacturers out there. Which is part of why all the "OMG Stellantis is dying" stuff is a hallmark of people who clearly haven't actually looked at the numbers.
Stellantis actually has a tremendous amount of cash on hand. One of the lowest debt and highest cash on hand manufacturers out there.
This was HTC's situation before they ended up where they are today. Cash on hand is the past. What investors want to know is where the future is. And Stellantis' future is currently looking bleak.
I'm refuting the obviously incorrect state that Stellantis is short on cash. This couldn't' be further from the truth. You can accurately state their lineup in the US is a mess. But its incorrect to state they do not have the cash to rebuild that lineup.
And they're far from niche even at their current sales numbers.
There's no reasonable discussion to be had with those who lack the basic facts.
Your comment highlights the fundamental problem with Stellantis. Sticking a bunch of unrelated brands together. Peugeot and Ram have nothing in common, and economies or scale/ platform sharing are pointless when it comes to situations like this.
He publicly mentioned getting rid of the Hemi was a mistake, and Tavares forced him out. He got rehired only 10 days after Tavares was forced out by the board.
And yes, he's probably begging Stellantis for money. It's a backwards company with zero idea about the American market, and at least under Tavares they didn't listen to the customers, dealerships, workers, unions, or execs.
You are right though - the mid-size truck should have been released a good 5-10 years ago.
It's his way of saying "sure, nothing's changed, but I really wanted it to, not like that filthy european!"
Like they've unveiled a new rearrangement of deck chairs, and this one has "V8" written on it just like everyone wanted, and this other one says "MURICA", and sure that iceberg packed a wallop, but so can we! Stars and Stripes! Jet fighters! Kid Rock!
Strange. Stellantis build trucks that are smaller than the 1500 for the South American and Asian markets. Wouldn’t be too hard to assemble them for the US market and slap a Dodge badge on them.
It’s interesting too because this was the same guy that was trying to justify the existence of the Dodge Hornet. Tim as CEO of Dodge launched an ad campaign that talked about the inner child in everyone wanting a Hornet.
He also was in charge at Dodge when the Charger EV was unveiled and prioritized over the Hurricane offering. He even talked about how Dodge couldn’t continue to make the Hemi anymore in today’s world in this interview.
I just don’t know if he’s trying to show now that he was under pressure from Tavares to say those things or not.
Tim has the stelantis by the short and harries. They basically begged him to come out of retirement to fix this shitshow. Im pretty sure he’s actually capable of doing it, but not as the CEO of ram. They need to turn all NA operations over to him.
Idk what’s there even to push for. Stellantis has a couple new platforms coming out, and it seems like their American execs have been bitching about it since day one. Like all these leaks shitting on the new charger; at least give the new straight 6 (that you commissioned!) a chance for fuck sake
There's plenty of examples of executives using the press to pressure change inside their organization. It puts the onus on both the Stellantis CEO and board to provide the funding and resources to make it happen.
Th older Tundras are much smaller, it's not even a proper full size unlike the second and third gen, it's basically sized in between a mid size and a full size
The American truck market is insanely competitive. I don't think you can just slap a RAM badge on a Peugeot Landtrek and seriously expect to be successful in this market. Hopefully with Tavares out of the picture, Stellantis isn't dumb enough to try that. The truck needs to be a new ground up platform, by and for America.
The Maverick is so close to the midsize trucks it's hardly a useful distinction. It's just focused on passenger comfort and practicality over hauling/towing.
No, it isn't. The bed is 18 inches shorter. The payload capacity is 400lbs lower. The max towing is 3500lbs less. It is a smaller and thus less capable truck.
I'd love to downgrade to a maverick. It cannot tow my cars. The shorter bed would be problematic. The ranger's is workable, but annoying. The lower payload is probably the only thing that would rarely be an issue.
You're making my exact point. The truck is roughly the same size as a mid-size, it just allocates resources to cabin space and comfort instead of bed length and towing/payload.
No I didn't. You are looking confirmation where there isn't. The Maverick is 11 inches shorter and 14 inches narrower than a ranger. I can move more in the bed/towing while still seating the same number of adults as a Maverick more comfortably.
A maverick is for someone who might want to tow their dirtbikes or do some light diy projects. I use my Ranger to tow my cars, trailers of arcade games, and to build literal a house. I cannot throw a pinball machine laying down in the back of a maverick. I cannot fit multiple pins standing up in it either. I have towed loads of games well in excess of what a Maverick can. A Maverick cannot tow my viper or Mondial. The smaller bed would mean having to tow loads I currently throw in the bed of my ranger when working on my new home. Towing is an added expense and a pain in the ass.
It is a SMALLER, less capable truck. That is why it is in a different class of trucks, because buyers who are trying to hit certain use cases aren't even going to bother. I would love a Maverick for its parking, because it is SMALLER. It however is not capable of doing most of what I use my current MID SIZE truck for.
As someone doing light construction the Ranger is semi capable, but restricted. If I was doing it as a living the ranger would go in a heartbeat for a full size. Sheets of plywood and drywall can't lay flat in the bed. Limits how much I can take and makes it a pain in the ass to move them. I bought 10 bags of mineral wool insulation sunday. I had to make sure they were still wrapped on the pallet. If it was broken down to individual bags expand so much I wouldn't be able to take that many. A full size wouldn't have been an issue, and would have been able to fit more. I can't tow small construction equipment (bobcat, ditch witch, tractor). That leaves me farming out work I could have diy'd by renting out the necessary equipment.
There is a reason there are multiple classes of trucks. As a non-owner you aren't the one to be talking about distinctions.
You've doubled down on deliberately avoiding my point about the actual difference in physical dimensions versus the technical classifications. So I'm done with this discussion.
I'm not sure what the snide "non-owner" comment is supposed to mean. You don't know what I currently or previously have owned. I can say for certain that a Maverick is ~3 inches narrower than a Ranger, so I don't know where you get a 14 inch figure from; it's not a Kei truck. I have to question if you've ever been in a truck before.
You are lopping the mirrors off both vehicles to get your "width".
You think nearly a foot difference in length in a vehicle is insignificant. By this same logic the honda accord shouldn't exist because it is just like a civic. Might as well get rid of all midsize cars because the possum knows best.
Questions if I have been in a truck. Ignores my flair and comment history. Put on your tin foil hats folks. Guy who claims and has posted pictures of his car collection is lying about the cheapest thing in his flair. Some real top notch logic there. I am sure Ford is gonna get right on following your lineup suggestions.
No. The Maverick is 100% a compact in terms of physical size and capability. It's in the same class as the original Ranger and the 90s Taco and Nissan Hardbody.
Nah. Maverick is 110% a class size smaller vs. the latest mid-size offerings. Tacoma is 6in taller, wider, and 13in longer. Look closely next time you see a new Canyon or Tacoma, squint and you'll think they're half-tons.
If you cherry pick the largest mid-sizers, then sure, they're a bit bigger. From what I'm seeing your purported Tacoma specs are a bit inaccurate. The BOF trucks are taller, but that's because of a body physically sitting on top of a frame instead of being integrated. They also ride much higher unladen because of the heavy duty springs to handle much heavier loads. You could get a lowering kit to bring it down to the Maverick's level and make it apples to apples and it wouldn't be much taller in reality.
If you compare it to the Ridgeline, a much more reasonable test, the mid-sizer is only a couple inches taller, less than a foot longer (100% of that due to the bed being a foot longer, not due to dimensions of the actual car). Sure, it's smaller overall, but it's not compact by any means.
Sure if you just change everything and wave your hands around a bit it would be something different. If your Corolla had an inline 6 and was RWD it would be like a Supra hatchback
I don't think you can just slap a RAM badge on a Peugeot Landtrek and seriously expect to be successful in this market
Idk. Ford, Toyota and Nissan basically do this. They're all world vehicles with maybe a face-lift. Iirc last time I read about this, ram was considering using a world truck and maybe making some slight appearance changes, slapping a ram logo on it and selling it. The thing is, midsized trucks don't really sell that well in comparison to their fullsize counterparts at least for the American brands, but 100k units per year may be significant as long as they aren't taking away sales from the ram 1500
Pre 2004 it looks like they were essentially the same trucks as the hilux with various names leading up to the Tacoma nameplate. 2005 is when the hilux went with a different frame/look. The Tacoma is sold in us, Canada, Mexico and a few smaller countries/islands with the hilux everywhere else
Since 1995, the 4Runner is a standalone SUV, while in the same year Toyota introduced the Tacoma to replace the Hilux pickup in North America.
Since the seventh-generation model released in 2004, the Hilux shares the same ladder frame chassis platform called the IMV with the Fortuner SUV and the Innova minivan.
I’d be shocked honestly. If you’re rural in Asia or Europe there’s plenty of good truck options more specifically suited for hauling that are way cheaper, and if you’re in the city it will barely fit anywhere and be a huge PITA to daily
Idk, if my research is anywhere near accurate the 2024 hilux has a max payload of 900kg or about 1985lbs and the 2024 tacoma has a max payload of 1700lbs so not that far off
They're the same size, except the Tacoma was made in Hilux place when the chicken tax started, the added taxes of the vehicle when they're manufactured outside the US would make it ridiculously expensive
They very much did this when it came out in 19. My favorite feature is when you first turn on the truck it sometimes complains about no cd in the radio. Never offered a cd player in the american market.
No, but Australia is basically America with an accent. Their automotive culture is very similar to ours, just physically smaller literally in terms of both the market and the size of the vehicles.
Chicken tax is mainly issue why they not bring Landtrek. Otherwise, the price in that truck should’ve been very competitive, as the truck is designed and made by Changan.
Can build it off the gladiator chassis. Do a street truck and toss a 6.2 in it. Make the fastest pickup ever sold from factory then sell lesser models based on the halo truck.
The Gladiator is as close as I am going to get to my dream truck. I wish it could be had with a longer bed. The pricing is just too stupid for me to justify buying, though. I would have gladly bought a Gladiator Sport instead of my Colorado if it were more reasonably priced.
I had a rental gladiator during the Covid days when I was in Dallas and I was impressed with the truck with how it drove. Unfortunately in my opinion, they could put new sheet metal on the existing platform but Stellantis doesn’t have a compelling engine option to make it any better than the GM’s twins with the V6, now 2.7L I4. Especially now with the ranger having the optional 2.7L V6 for $2200, that’s a damn capable mid size truck.
A base inline 6 hurricane making 420hp/470tq in a Dakota would be a hell of a truck. Make it crew cab with a 5.5 ft bed. Slightly bigger than the current ranger and Colorado. Use the frame from the ram 1500 classic, shrink it down about 80%.
Exact same takeaway from my time having a rental Gladiator. I really liked how well it drove, loved taking the removable hard top off, and liked how it was optioned out.
But dear god could that thing not get out of its own way. Waaaaaaay too little power (and what little it did have was in the wrong part of the RPM range) for how heavy and large of a vehicle that thing is. They're around 6000lbs, which is more than 1000lbs heavier than an average F-150.
They rusted away if you looked at them funny, and the 3rd gens weren't the best looking and were gas hogs for how little power they had. Also, as is standard for mid 00s Chrysler, electrical issues.
IMO, nothing other than the market in general shifting away from small trucks and into the era of the ubiquitous CUV. Hell, they made them for nearly 25 years; probably longer than that redditor has been alive.
Up until this year, the RAM 1500 Classic filled the price brakcet for a midsize truck. A lazy solution for sure, but probably better for a whole lot of potential buyers. And easy.
For some reason I always thought the Rebel was a midsize. I had to Google it just now, I thought I was going crazy. Didn't realize it was a 1500 trim. I've only seen like 2 irl and they seemed smaller, I figured it was Dodge's Ranger competition. To me the only thing out there now that resembles older small trucks is the Maverick and it stands out like a sore thumb for that reason. I've never even seen one of those Hyundai trucks before aside from on the internet but I assume it's similar size.
Solid front axle and removable roof are inherently divisive design points. It rides rougher and is much louder than anything else even if it looked, to you, amazing.
Solid axles ride smoother because they have more wheel travel. Tire wear is also more even because it doesn't have active camber.
The steering is vague, so that's polarizing.
The gladiator is good because it has a solid axle. I love how smooth my jeeps ride compared to IFS vehicles, which pound you to oblivion off-road. CV axle geometry severely limits your travel.
None of the modern equivalents to the Gladiator lack wheel travel. A Colorado ZR2, Ranger Raptor, even the Tacomas (4th gen) all ride smoother over off-road because each side of the suspension in front can react independently and forces are not transmitted across the axle. The Gladiator's travel advantage, which only exists in the Rubicon form, comes into play in technical and slow moving situations but before then... no.
And this can be proven when you throw them up on a RTI ramp. Or hell a CTI ramp too.
These modern off-road IFS trucks have 10" of travel up front, decently in both up and down travel.
Yes, one huge advantage is when you start lifting dollar-for-dollar the Gladiator gains a lot more. But that's not what most do. Having been in the Jeep community a lot, and this applies to IFS trucks in my experience... frankly most people do more to ruin the way their Jeep rides than help it. Puck lifts, lifts lacking full geometry correction, etc, etc. Those are the norm.
The Gladiator is different because of the solid front axle. I don't think to the majority of the market, which I don't consider my self part of but I'm not so obtuse I can't see what appeals to them, doesn't want it.
The Gladiator's frame geometry wise is weird. I think on the fact its so narrow alone it would be limiting to design a traditional truck on. Likewise I doubt its front end setup is ideal to do an IFS setup on (and you can litigate your feelings on this again if you want but its flat out pointless to suggest Ram would go for a solid front axle Dakota, its not happening).
I also don't think they'd want to position the Dakota as being longer than competition but with a shorter bed. Again... an inherent design aspect to the Gladiator's frame.
While I ultimately suspect the Gladiator continues being its own thing. I'd say its more likely a future Gladiator is built on a different platform, one designed for a more traditional mid-size truck setup, than it is a Dakota gets made on the Gladiator's.
These modern off-road IFS trucks have 10" of travel up front, decently in both up and down travel
I can get 12" from a base model jeep with trivial bolt-on mods.
because each side of the suspension in front can react independently and forces are not transmitted across the axle.
Forces aren't transmitted across the axle because there is nothing on the other side of the axle to react against, besides the sway bar (disconnect this). It's on a virtual pivot.
A base model gladiator rides far better than a base model Colorado/Tacoma. A few simple mods to increase make it ride even smoother.
I'm not spending $60k on a new zr2. That's idiotic. Give me a truck with the potential (solid axle) and I'll improve it how I see fit. I also want a stick shift, which locks me into a Tacoma.
A base model Colorado rides like shit and there's basically nothing you can do to fix it short of a solid axle swap.
Comparing modified to stock and making up prices isn't a way to have a rational discussion.
Was just at a dealer looking at a zr2 and sticker was close to 60. After taxes and other fees you're well over 65. That price isn't made up.
I'm going to compare modified because I'm going to modify it. If you're just going to pigeonhole yourself into a bone stock vehicle then i guess buuysomething else. This isn't a vehicle for you.
Are you talking Canadian prices? Because that's the only rational way you'll find a ZR2 for $60K.
And no this is how you try to win an argument that you know you're losing. The fact alone you're trying to convince yourself that forces don't transmit across a solid axle is wild but that's on you. And I already acknowledged that the gains dollar for dollar on a gladiator can be greater. You still actually have to put on enough components to maintain proper geometry if you even want to maintain a stock quality ride. Cuz you can really screw up the geometry in a hurry and get a total mess which is what I've experienced many times.
Ultimately there's just no way forward here. You're trying to make a case for your specific situation and that's fine and dandy and you do that. But I cannot address every single specific person's desires or how they want to build a truck. That's not how we can have a discussion about the larger market.
What? That's asinine and you know it, or I hope you know it. The force is pushing the other end into the ground. And in this case since the ground isn't going anywhere there's a force pushed back into the suspension.
Both sides of the suspension are inherently tied together. There's no getting around this. I have no clue what's going on in your brain but your silly thought experiment suggests you're making no effort for good faith.
Sure, but Stellantis' failure to move them at this point isn't going to magically get them to deliver funding for a new midsize for Ram. Too much competition from other brands.
Why wouldn't it? If anything it might be a message to the Stellantis executive team and board that the Gladiator's approach, though frankly I think its much more the Gladiator's pricing, isn't the right one for a Stellantis mid-size truck.
Moreover, he's not the only Stellantis head of a brand talking about needing to rethink their strategy a bit with their mid-size trucks.
It seems to me now that Tavares has been pushed out the brand heads are taking this opportunity to try to push for changes in the US market. Which... makes sense. Clearly they were doing something wrong. These are people are new to their positions. They're trying to shake things up.
And again, whatever you think of the Gladiator, it isn't the type of mid-size truck Ram would deliver.
The Gladiator is for Jeep customers that want a truck. That's gotta be a pretty small market.
With a Ram midsize, they'd capture a bigger segment.
But I don't think they're interested in competing with Ram in this segment. That would require a pretty big bet against Ford, Toyota, Chevy, etc. who are already having trouble getting 2024 inventory off lots. I'm seeing Ranger Raptors sitting for days and under MSRP. Ranger XLT and Lariats 5-7k under MSRP. Without any bargaining.
I wanted a Gladiator. I looked at them twice. When they first came out and then when I got my ranger. I love the idea of a removable top truck. I wanted a 4x4 for weather, but not interested in off roading.
For the money, you get less than the competition. My 18 colorado might as well have been a spaceship compared to an equal priced gladiator. Colorado had lane assist and a touch screen, gladiator had roll up windows. Both times I could have a stripper model gladiator or a well optioned Chevy/Ford.
I wanted a manual. Gladiator manual had a 2k lb towing capacity. Mid size truck, 2k lb towing capacity is baffling. It also had a stop sale the second time i looked at it.
I strongly believe Gladiator sales dropped because Jeep pricing, Gladiator included, went through the roof with nothing material in return to the customer.
Trucks for decades were always available with discounts. That's when the market was healthiest and its actually when these brands were moving the most product.
2020/2021/2022 (kind of) were the anomalies. That's not the basis to judge things. Just because there are discounts on trucks doesn't mean the sky is falling (or that things are bad at all, actually).
Chevy just had its strongest mid-size trucks sales since 2019. GMC had its best sales year ever. Frontier its best sales year since 2019. We'll have to judge Ranger and Tacoma sales more on next year because they didn't have full sales years.
We shall see what happens. More competition is always good, especially for folks that don't have brand loyalty, of which admittedly there are very few folks in this segment. 😆
They could convince themselves the gladiator is too niche and divisively styled and that a baby 1500 probably would do better (I think it would, but whether that justifies a billion to build it…)
It would. It can for every engine in the lineup, from a 4 banger to hellcat. Do a street truck instead of off-road with independent front suspension. Hellcat midsize street truck will fly for 2-3 model years. 392 versions will sell en mass if starting under 50k.
They've had years to start doing the work on the obvious need for bringing back Dakota or equivalent. It's just plain silly at this point that they haven't.
Hahaha ok “buy the shit out of” might have been an overstatement but if they didn’t fuck the styling up and kept the price in like the 90 or less range then my dumb ass would probably end up with one ya lol
Best I can give you is ill comment on Reddit how badly I'd like a manual single cab 6 foot bed option and then say I'd wait for it in the used market, but never buy it.
Yes, absolutely. There are no high performance street trucks from factory. Fp700 is technically aftermarket and super snake sport is just a Tuscany build.
Did he forget the Dakota existed? Like the Ranger and Gm twins made comebacks, why not a Ram Dakota? Instead of 1200 which can be made for international markets, Dakota for NA only. Take the existing platform and power train of the Jeep Gladiator, modify with Ram body, 3.6 penta v6, bed and cab sizes, hell maybe a diesel Cummins inline 4 option like the duramax was in the Colorado/canyon. Same trims and similar stylings like 1500 and it’s perfect!
It would take a fair chunk of R&D dollars and time to "RAM-ify" the Gladiator. The Gladiator is ostensibly an awful truck at doing truck things, since its philosophy is to be a Wrangler that is less bad at doing truck things. Need to ditch the solid-axle in the front, rework the entire suspension so it can handle payload, make a new interior, etc. It's not just bolting a new body that magically exists to a Gladiator frame.
You'll also need a new powertrain to be frank. The Pentastar is a perfectly fine engine to have as the base, but if they just send it out the factory with only a Pentastar then it's a new model that is worst in class everything. The leaders are over 400lb-ft of torque and numbers sell trucks. The Pentastar can maybe scrape same Nissan Frontier sales for people that just want a simple V6 truck, but the Frontier has only been doing ~60k units a year, so there's not much market to steal.
One option is the Wrangler plug-in hybrid that has allegedly been in the works for the Gladiator. The powertrain has dubious reliability but it would give it something unique in the mid-size market. Especially with the ability to offboard meaningful power that every other midsizer lacks.
The other is the new hurricane inline-6. That would make it competitive with the others on power, but fitting an inline-6 into a smaller truck may be tough. In any case it'll require engineering.
Sure the current gladiator isn’t great. I meant that if they took design from that chassis or looked at the 1500 chassis to downsize and modify for mid-size use. Of course it’ll take time and money but it would be worth bringing the Dakota back as a RAM mid size truck to compete. I do agree that Pentastar probably won’t be high seller like Frontier v6 because it’s old and everyone’s going for turbo inline 4s. Personally v6 are still going to be favored for towing and hauling reliability. Hybrid option they’re trying to make is definitely worth looking into. I’m just saying other than the v6, maybe Chrysler can bring out either basic 4 cylinder or hybrid 4 cylinder would be enough for the truck. Personally not big fan of the hurricane i6, don’t think twin turbos on a smaller engine for full size use will last plus I don’t think it’ll fit anything smaller than full size. I think possibly for the Dakota could comeback if Chrysler can either find a good v6 alternative or start using the hybrid tech. Or like I said since new Larger Cummins engines are coming maybe a smaller mid size variant could be also interesting to see.
Is this the new meta for auto CEOs? Gazing wistfully into the middle distance in their press room and sighing about how they wish they sold categories of vehicles that they spent the last 15 years eradicating from the market with extreme prejudice?
If you read the article it does indeed sound like he's hinting the product is coming. But likewise Ram is a brand under a conglomerate. Just because the CEO of the brand wants to make the product does not mean he'll be given the greenlight to do it. And in fact that's a large part of why Kuniskis left Dodge, because Tavares, the former Stellantis CEO, was not allowing him to run it like he desired. Now that Tavares is gone it seem the American heads of brands at Stellantis are pushing the Stellantis executive team and board to greenlight products that are more attuned with the American market.
It’s just the optics of the headline that’s funny. A CEO crying to the press because his company isn’t making something. Goes to show how well this trainwreck is running
Honestly, when the Ranger came back and Colorado and Canyon stepped up their game with the ZR2/AT packages, I was surprised Ram didn't have a Midsize ready to go after the 19 Ram redesign was such a hit.
Uptons_BJs@reddit
Man, I don’t get Tim. Is he trying to campaign for the role of Stellantis CEO? Is he trying to pressure the board to give him funding?
First the “no v8 is anti American” and now the “I want a mid sized truck so bad”, why is the CEO of RAM begging through the press lol.
Drrtybird@reddit
What if the mid sized truck had a v8
That would be tits
KennyGaming@reddit
Single cab body on frame manual V8 with a footprint 6-18inches longer than maverick yes please
Jay_Diamond_WWE@reddit
Just bought something similar. 04 Ram work truck with a 5.7 and a stickshift in a standard cab body. It needs a ton of work to get rid of the rusted rockers, bed, and doors, but it was $300. I couldn't say no.
land8844@reddit
Factory drag radials and a supercharger
KennyGaming@reddit
25/33 MPG factory tune
Otherwise_Plum7270@reddit
Fellas, this is the official r/cars out of touch redditor vehicle that would flop so hard it would get a CEO fired lol
Journeyman42@reddit
The r/cars Homermobile
KennyGaming@reddit
Oh I know I almost included that but it was more fun to leave it as bait. I own an iPhone 13 mini btw
Otherwise_Plum7270@reddit
Ah shit, so do I actually. Genuine Reddit moment here
Drrtybird@reddit
Flop so hard compared to what? The hornet??
Otherwise_Plum7270@reddit
They can’t even sell that thing and it’s a segment that’s exploding. If you want niche comparison try the prerunner, which is selling sooooo well.
Drrtybird@reddit
Oh fuck yeah
Otherwise_Plum7270@reddit
Fellas, this is the official r/cars redditor this is the official r/cars out of touch redditor vehicle that would flop so hard it would get a CEO fired lol
flapsmcgee@reddit
Chevy could so easily make a Ranger Raptor competitor that would blow the Ranger away with a V8. Just put the LT1 in a Colorado and everyone will want that over the Ranger.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
Kind of missing the point of what makes Raptors Raptors imo- drag racing these things like they're sport trucks is stupid. 0-60 is not what an off road truck is supposed to be about. Power yes, but that's not enough.
flapsmcgee@reddit
Well yeah the Chevy would need suspension upgrades as well. I'm just saying people will flock to the one with the V8 sound over the V6.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
I mean sure, but giving a Colorado a 2" Rough Country lift kit and 500hp and drag racing them, the Chevy would win yeah? I want to see them race like, Vegas to Reno off road not 1/4 mile on pavement. You need power to get you up hills and through sand, not for fucking drag racing your lifted pickups like they're the next gen Lighting and Syclone.
Vhozite@reddit
I’m just guessing but I feel like GM wouldn’t do that bc it would cannibalize sales from the Silverado. Probably the same reason the CT4 isn’t a V8
land8844@reddit
GM gonna GM and artificially force customers to buy bigger.
GM did put the LH8/LH9 V8 in the previous gen Colorado, for what it's worth.
F1_Geek@reddit
Previous? That would make it 2nd gen. I think you mean the 1st gen.
land8844@reddit
Yes, you're absolutely right, I just noticed that haha.
F1_Geek@reddit
No worries! :)
RefrigeratorTime6271@reddit
CT4 isn't a V8 because when the ATS-V was being developed, the president of Cadillac at the time said the car needed to be a boosted 6 cyl. The engineering team wanted the LT1 for that car.
Reduxalicious@reddit
You joke but, If you ever get a chance to look under the hood of a Ranger Raptor..
You can shove a V8 in it, that 3.0 is not taking up a whole lot of space, and the Aussies have done Coyote swaps..
V8 Midsize truck wars when?!
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/hsv-colorado-v8-top-secret-ute-track-tested/
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/hsv-colorado-sportscat-v8-2021-review-132928/
Obligatory "they built a prototype" post
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RhenfusaFerox@reddit
I mean, that was like, the Dakota's thing back in the day.
ScaredGrapefruit9027@reddit
Yea but let's give it an actual powerful engine this time.
My little 4.7 would roast tires, but a 5.7 hemi would've been a lot more fun.
Lordofwar13799731@reddit
My 4.3L v6 in my 2000 silverado roasts the tires all the time with an even slightly too hard push on the throttle due to no weight in the rear lol. I'm not complaining by the way, its fun as hell and the truck doesn't even have traction control haha, but if it can do it with like... I'm assuming under 200hp at this point, a 5.7 hemi would be hilariously fun in a smaller light truck!
FoundryCove@reddit
Is yours a stick? Maybe I'm not hard enough on my clutch, but my 4.3L Silverado hooks up just fine in the dry.
Cosmicfool13@reddit
I had a 2010 Dakota with the Magnum V8 for about 7 years and really liked it. My 2024 Santa Cruz (2.5T) would smoke that thing and gets 2x the mileage. I wanted a midsize RAM, but alas.
lawman9000@reddit
That didn't stop the Hellcat cars from existing! 🤣
Omgninjas@reddit
Hellcat Dakota... Sign me up!
penis-tango-man@reddit
Hell even a 392 Dakota SRT would be freaking sweet.
gaedikus@reddit
same. (how's your forester XT?)
Omgninjas@reddit
She's hurt right now. Cylinder 2 is only at 50psi compression. One of these weekends I'll pull the motor out and pop the head off to see what's going on. At 178k miles it's probably time to freshen up the motor anyway. If the block, crank, and cams look good I might do the STI upgrade and manual swap it. If not I'm not sure. I might just part it out since the interior is in pretty good shape. Depends on how much machine work is needed.
gaedikus@reddit
i had a 2004 that ate one of the valves back in the day, was not a good time. STI swap is pretty involved, so if you do end up doing it, I wish you the very best of luck! you gonna stick with the VF39 or go up? probably not reuse your TD04?
Omgninjas@reddit
Probably VF39. I'd only keep the TDO4 if I decide against an STI swap and just rebuild the motor and sell it. A buddy has a 39 Buick with the straight 8 for sale and it's calling my name. I've had my fun with the Subie so it might be time to let it change hands. I don't have to decide immediately thankfully!
wewdepiew@reddit
EV Dakota with speakers playing sound is the best we can do
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
I’d love a non-rivian ev midsize truck
trolllord45@reddit
Surprise Ford hasn’t given the Ranger the Lightning treatment yet
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Same, that’d be a slam dunk for me
cereal7802@reddit
I'll take it!!!
hells_cowbells@reddit
A while back, I got recommended a YouTube video where a guy did a Hellcat swap on a Dakota. That thing was bonkers. There's another one with a new hurricane swap in it.
Darktrooper007@reddit
This is the sort of insanity that made Dodge great.
reddit_beats_college@reddit
There were 5.9 dakotas too
ScaredGrapefruit9027@reddit
Severly underpowered compared to a hemi
reddit_beats_college@reddit
Definitely. Just pointing out that it was an option.
hodgestein@reddit
You could get a Dakota with a 318 ci and the R/T version witha 360 ci. I had a buddy that had a single cab R/T that would run high 10s in the quarter mile. He had some bolt ons and a reprogrammed ECU that woke that 360 up something fierce. This was also nearly 30 years ago.
ChuckoRuckus@reddit
The only way that truck would run 10s with just “bolt ons and tune” is if one of those bolt ons were a supercharger or turbo.
hodgestein@reddit
No forced induction or nitrous. Can't remember if he changed the cam or not. I do remember he daily drove it on Nitto drag radials but had some proper slicks for the track...Hoosiers I believe...maybe some Mickey Thompsons. Been a long time ago. Anyway, our group of friends would run at a drag strip in Gulfport, MS. His truck didn't break into the tens consistently, but would on occasion...was there to see it more than once and the time slips to show it.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
You'd need at least 600hp to hit high 10s-low 11s. Not sure a 360 can get there without forced induction or a big nitrous shot.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
He might have had a stealth nitrous kit he wasn't telling people about.
I hope you realize how literally impossible a high 10 second quarter is for that truck otherwise..
BaconCheeseBurger@reddit
Well slicks, a cam, and undoubtedly other mods is a lot more than "bolt on's and a tune" lol
frankbunny@reddit
probably need to bolt on another transmission too.
Mojave_Idiot@reddit
This is a remark that I feel like I should have known by now.
Nice.
onlyranchmefries@reddit
Yep. Max you're getting out of a hopped up magnum motor is probably 500 or so and remaining streetable. There are some guys in the 600 and 700s with big stroke 408s and 427s out there but I prefer the street character of a turbo.
hodgestein@reddit
Apparently, I'm misremembering some details about this truck. Regardless, it was a cool truck.
spongebob_meth@reddit
Those trucks really weren't fast and no bolt on would make them run 10s lmao. Thats going to take 500-600hp at least.
Makhnos_Tachanka@reddit
that can't be right, the 80s were only 20 years ago
hodgestein@reddit
My mistake. This was the late 90s...so 10 years ago.
aprtur@reddit
First gen in Sport trim with the Magnum 5.2 and 5 speed was such a cool street truck. Second gen was nice in R/T trim, but sharing styling with the Durango was kind of a bummer.
hopenoonefindsthis@reddit
A crashed truck means a new sale coming!
cheezturds@reddit
Wouldn’t a new Dakota be roughly the same size as a Jeep GC? My WK2 has a 5.7 and it goes decent but definitely not overpowered.
Turbo_911@reddit
I had the Dakota 5.9 R/T at one point. Put a smile on my face all the time!
_Jmattg_@reddit
I have a 05 Dodge Dakota club can RWD. Thing is fun. Can spin it pretty easy. But still rides nice on highway. Tranny cost 3k to replace but besides that… never had a single thing go wrong with it.
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
Man my dad had one, thing was thirsty even for old time gas prices. I think he sold it around the recession and bought a Neon lol. I didn't get it at the time but that was probably one of the sadder days of his life...
r_golan_trevize@reddit
The Dakota was the perfect "smaller than a full-size" truck back in the day. It had a full 4' between the wheel tubs in the bed, wasn't a total phone booth in the cab, and, you could option a V8 for maximum patriotic burnouts.
Drzhivago138@reddit
All gens of Dakota were just a hair under 4' wide at the wheel wells. The 1st and early 2nd gens did offer an 8' bed, but the vaunted plywood sheet could only be carried above the wells.
r_golan_trevize@reddit
Maybe the 8' bed was what I was remembering.
Drzhivago138@reddit
The 2nd gen Dakota is one of only two smaller-than-full-size pickups in the US that offered 3 bed and 3 cab sizes in the same generation. But since the regular cab/8' bed left in 1999 and the Quad Cab/5' came in 2000, that means the S-10 is the only model that offered them in the same year.
StucklnAWell@reddit
Tell that to my 95 Dakota Sport with a 2.5L I4 :(
spongebob_meth@reddit
Wheels falling off from ball joint separation and horrific rust were also its things
Smegma-Santorum@reddit
I would buy one
SirLucky@reddit
Put the 392 motor in a midsize and I would spend soooo much money on tires.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
So you want a Jeep Gladiator 392?
isomorphZeta@reddit
Nobody wants a Gladiator.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
Nobody wants a Dakota either.
isomorphZeta@reddit
Can't disagree with you there lol
Drrtybird@reddit
See this guy gets it
ChirpyRaven@reddit
Chevy offered a slightly modified version of their 5.3 V8 in the Colorado from 2008-2012, and even offered a "sport" suspension package that lowered the truck and added some thicker sway bars and a tighter steering rack. Don't think anyone remembers that truck existing, though.
OttoVonCranky@reddit
What would be the point?
Lucreth2@reddit
I'll be the brown Miata wagon in the room but.. I'd very heavily consider buying that. If they could avoid the worst of the FCA quality pitfalls and make back seats big enough for the kids' seats..... Yeah I'd definitely be getting permission for that one.
Foxicious_@reddit
Gosh now I really regret not picking up a HSV Maloo when they were affordable...
cheezturds@reddit
My dad’s Dakota had one. It sounded sweet.
lunarc@reddit
Shit, how about any true small truck. Bring back trucks that don’t have a belt line 5’ off the ground.
Mk2Guru@reddit
A Gasoline or Diesel turbocharged inline 6 would be good too.
Slasher1738@reddit
Stop, I can only get but so erect
Comfortable-Total574@reddit
Not if it weighs as much as a fullsize, which seems like a stellantis thing to do.
peakdecline@reddit
If you compare most of the mid-size trucks to their half-ton brand relatives you'd find that they're all much closer in weight than you seem to think.
Workaroundtheclock@reddit
They cost is pretty close as well. To me it doesn’t make sense for the loss of capability unless their is a specific reason you need want that smaller footprint.
Sure as shit aren’t the mid sized trucks of the 90’s.
Aperson3334@reddit
Modern full size trucks are huge. Today’s mid-sized trucks are the size of full-sized trucks from 20 years ago. I see more Rangers and Tacos on the road than I see F-150s and Tundras.
ScaredGrapefruit9027@reddit
This is not common.
At least in my area.
Midsize except the Tacoma are rare.
Everyone drives a full size.
apoctank@reddit
you realize 20 years ago was 2005? Half tons were already pretty big by then
Workaroundtheclock@reddit
That is highly dependent of n where you live. Full size trucks, especially the F 150, vastly out sells rangers and tacos in j the whole though.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/
Comfortable-Total574@reddit
Yep, I've always thought the ranger was pointless unless you specifically needed it for the smaller footprint to fit in a garage or parking spot. Colorado isn't quite as beefy but still heavy. I applaud ford for the Maverick though, they did right with their small truck.
shrekwithhisearsdown@reddit
if gm/the aus government didn't kill off holden they probably wouldve put one in a colorado by now. or just kept the v8 ute
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/hsv-colorado-v8-top-secret-ute-track-tested/
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/hsv-colorado-sportscat-v8-2021-review-132928/
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noxx1234567@reddit
Unfortunately it would be too expensive due to carbon credits
It wouldn't make any business sense to launch it
NorCalAthlete@reddit
You think the Challenger Hellcat makes sense as far as carbon credits are concerned?
noxx1234567@reddit
Challenger was a decades old platform that required very little development costs to make the hellcat. Not to mention it was a halo product to boost the company name
An all new truck with a V8 would incur enormous costs for the company
fiero-fire@reddit
I don't know much about the guy but he does actually seem to understand his customer base.
Stallantis really weighed down the fee successful brands Chrysler had with dogshit. I don't see anything wrong with focusing what made RAM trucks popular. Samething goes for jeep.
stav_and_nick@reddit
But the issue is that what that customer base wants is a money sink
Given legal restrictions, the hemi is dead in Europe and Asia, and a niche in South America. And that doesn’t even count the cost of making a next gen for just America again
Not even getting into paying emissions, which at a time of capital thirsty OEMs is basically giving free profit to your direct rivals
It’s not popular, but if I’m Stellantis, I’m investing in something I can sell to Sven in malmo, Juan in Argentina, Zhou in Beijing, and Bettie in sault st Marie rather than something that only exists for one market. A large one, sure, but it’s not like Stellantis is flush for cash right now
fiero-fire@reddit
All valid points but trying to make Mopar brands global they devalued the market they thrived in. Obviously this is an over simplification. RAM and Jeep kept them alive post 2008 but they've watered them down so hard even the most passionate people are leaving
zubiaur@reddit
Spot on. RAM is a US centric brand already. Its competitors are also local. Find me a F150, Silverado or RAM in Southeast Asia, Latin America, Europe. There are like dozens of them. For crying out loud, they simply don’t fit on parking spots, roads.
stav_and_nick@reddit
I think the best thing would have been, have Stellantis form, but just steal the Euro brands and have Fiat, Alfa, and Maserati leave North America. That cash injection could be used to revive the core Jeep/Dodge brand, with Ram being merged back into Dodge
I just don't know why FCA sought this merger out so badly. Yes they were in trouble, but why PSA? Why not go back to Mercedes? Why not basically anyone else?
J0kutyypp1@reddit
PSA wanted a merger as well and FCA was really strugling with electrification while PSA was doing quite well.
fiero-fire@reddit
Buddy that is all well above my pay grade. I've watched it happen over the last 15 years and none of it made sense. But I don't get paid stupid amounts to suck off shareholders then get paid millions for getting fired
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
Mid size truck can be sold in more markets than just NA. Just a question of what brand they put it under.
democracywon2024@reddit
Yeah but in the United States the Hemi engine will be getting sold in 2065 to an 65 year old me who has the money to buy the damn thing and wants a real truck with a real V8.
It's a large ass market and you can just crank out 100,000+ Hemi trucks a year. Or you can give up on the market and go out of business because you don't have a halo tier product.
Cause a fire breathing big balls V8 brings the boys in the door to settle for a V6 at $10k less. And shit, you can charge a massive premium that makes no economical sense for the V8 and it's still gonna sell units and get people in the door.
Mk2Guru@reddit
I'd be happy with a 6 cylinder option, as long as it is not a V6.
peakdecline@reddit
Stellantis actually has a tremendous amount of cash on hand. One of the lowest debt and highest cash on hand manufacturers out there. Which is part of why all the "OMG Stellantis is dying" stuff is a hallmark of people who clearly haven't actually looked at the numbers.
Hunt3rj2@reddit
This was HTC's situation before they ended up where they are today. Cash on hand is the past. What investors want to know is where the future is. And Stellantis' future is currently looking bleak.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
If Fiat family and Peugeot family still hold the group, no way STLA would go out of business.
Hunt3rj2@reddit
HTC is still around too, that doesn't mean they're doing anywhere near as well as they were in 2011.
democracywon2024@reddit
Ok Stellantis is gonna be a niche automaker who makes shitty European cars only and Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep will be dead.
peakdecline@reddit
I'm refuting the obviously incorrect state that Stellantis is short on cash. This couldn't' be further from the truth. You can accurately state their lineup in the US is a mess. But its incorrect to state they do not have the cash to rebuild that lineup.
And they're far from niche even at their current sales numbers.
There's no reasonable discussion to be had with those who lack the basic facts.
pointblankmos@reddit
Ram as a brand does not exist in Europe.
Your comment highlights the fundamental problem with Stellantis. Sticking a bunch of unrelated brands together. Peugeot and Ram have nothing in common, and economies or scale/ platform sharing are pointless when it comes to situations like this.
vhalember@reddit
Was didn't exactly retire.
He publicly mentioned getting rid of the Hemi was a mistake, and Tavares forced him out. He got rehired only 10 days after Tavares was forced out by the board.
And yes, he's probably begging Stellantis for money. It's a backwards company with zero idea about the American market, and at least under Tavares they didn't listen to the customers, dealerships, workers, unions, or execs.
You are right though - the mid-size truck should have been released a good 5-10 years ago.
Car-face@reddit
It's his way of saying "sure, nothing's changed, but I really wanted it to, not like that filthy european!"
Like they've unveiled a new rearrangement of deck chairs, and this one has "V8" written on it just like everyone wanted, and this other one says "MURICA", and sure that iceberg packed a wallop, but so can we! Stars and Stripes! Jet fighters! Kid Rock!
bindermichi@reddit
Strange. Stellantis build trucks that are smaller than the 1500 for the South American and Asian markets. Wouldn’t be too hard to assemble them for the US market and slap a Dodge badge on them.
motorcitydevil@reddit
Wait dragged out of retirement? You think he voluntarily left?
BrandonNeider@reddit
Retired or Forced into Retirement.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
He definitely learn something from Ford CEO Farly. Don’t forget that Farly like to talk some BS.
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
It’s interesting too because this was the same guy that was trying to justify the existence of the Dodge Hornet. Tim as CEO of Dodge launched an ad campaign that talked about the inner child in everyone wanting a Hornet.
He also was in charge at Dodge when the Charger EV was unveiled and prioritized over the Hurricane offering. He even talked about how Dodge couldn’t continue to make the Hemi anymore in today’s world in this interview.
I just don’t know if he’s trying to show now that he was under pressure from Tavares to say those things or not.
samcuu@reddit
These headlines sound like satirical articles making fun of /r/cars.
Kalcuttabutta@reddit
Tim has the stelantis by the short and harries. They basically begged him to come out of retirement to fix this shitshow. Im pretty sure he’s actually capable of doing it, but not as the CEO of ram. They need to turn all NA operations over to him.
stav_and_nick@reddit
“Come save us from the pit we dug, PSA!”
“No, not like that!”
Idk what’s there even to push for. Stellantis has a couple new platforms coming out, and it seems like their American execs have been bitching about it since day one. Like all these leaks shitting on the new charger; at least give the new straight 6 (that you commissioned!) a chance for fuck sake
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
peakdecline@reddit
There's plenty of examples of executives using the press to pressure change inside their organization. It puts the onus on both the Stellantis CEO and board to provide the funding and resources to make it happen.
I don't think its that wild, frankly.
elroddo74@reddit
I want a compact truck. Mid size now are still too big.
Altruistic-Ranger595@reddit
yeah I agree
silphred43@reddit
There's the RAM 1000, and looking at it from an outsider's perspective, I still can't wrap my head around why they don't sell it in the US.
NaBUru38@reddit
The Ram 1000 / Fiat Toro is a terrible car.
So I agree with you...
Drzhivago138@reddit
Because it's not built in the US, so would be subject to the Chicken Tax. Same as the related Ram Rampage.
agnaddthddude@reddit
because it’s a Fiat pickup truck underneath and Fiat is dead in USA
LifeWithAdd@reddit
For real just let me buy a new Kei truck or make an equivalent.
elroddo74@reddit
A Toyota Hilux would be great also.
Drzhivago138@reddit
The global Hilux is about the same size as a US Tacoma. But the smaller Hilux Champ would be a neat model to have.
EpicTaco9901@reddit
New Tacomas are fucing massive. A 2005 single cab Tundra is like the size of a modern highlander
Drzhivago138@reddit
The single or Access Cab first-gen Tundras are about a foot and a half longer than even a Grand Highlander, and slightly taller, though narrower.
Now, a first-gen Highlander is something like the size of the current RAV4.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
Because the first gen Tundras aren't a full size pickup
VioletGardens-left@reddit
Th older Tundras are much smaller, it's not even a proper full size unlike the second and third gen, it's basically sized in between a mid size and a full size
Birkent@reddit
I have a 22 Ranger and I think it's the perfect size. I wish they'd load up the Rangers with the cool features they put in the F150s.
nuggles00@reddit (OP)
Right? My 1997 C-1500 is lower than most crossovers on the road. I keep the stock 235r15s on it.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
Yup, parked my 97 ram 1500 next to a brand new colorado the other day, I'd say the colorado was just a hair bigger.
Titan0917@reddit
While the Colorado is probably taller, your Ram is wider and likely longer depending on the configuration.
johnbowser_@reddit
Okay so do it then
Helpful_Umpire_9049@reddit
Aha! A truckasexual he is.
nuggles00@reddit (OP)
😡
KeyboardGunner@reddit
The American truck market is insanely competitive. I don't think you can just slap a RAM badge on a Peugeot Landtrek and seriously expect to be successful in this market. Hopefully with Tavares out of the picture, Stellantis isn't dumb enough to try that. The truck needs to be a new ground up platform, by and for America.
tekniklee@reddit
I think he/we really want is a Maverick competitor with more HP and AWD
KeyboardGunner@reddit
The Maverick is a compact truck. Not midsize.
perkele_possum@reddit
The Maverick is so close to the midsize trucks it's hardly a useful distinction. It's just focused on passenger comfort and practicality over hauling/towing.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
No, it isn't. The bed is 18 inches shorter. The payload capacity is 400lbs lower. The max towing is 3500lbs less. It is a smaller and thus less capable truck.
I'd love to downgrade to a maverick. It cannot tow my cars. The shorter bed would be problematic. The ranger's is workable, but annoying. The lower payload is probably the only thing that would rarely be an issue.
perkele_possum@reddit
You're making my exact point. The truck is roughly the same size as a mid-size, it just allocates resources to cabin space and comfort instead of bed length and towing/payload.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
No I didn't. You are looking confirmation where there isn't. The Maverick is 11 inches shorter and 14 inches narrower than a ranger. I can move more in the bed/towing while still seating the same number of adults as a Maverick more comfortably.
A maverick is for someone who might want to tow their dirtbikes or do some light diy projects. I use my Ranger to tow my cars, trailers of arcade games, and to build literal a house. I cannot throw a pinball machine laying down in the back of a maverick. I cannot fit multiple pins standing up in it either. I have towed loads of games well in excess of what a Maverick can. A Maverick cannot tow my viper or Mondial. The smaller bed would mean having to tow loads I currently throw in the bed of my ranger when working on my new home. Towing is an added expense and a pain in the ass.
It is a SMALLER, less capable truck. That is why it is in a different class of trucks, because buyers who are trying to hit certain use cases aren't even going to bother. I would love a Maverick for its parking, because it is SMALLER. It however is not capable of doing most of what I use my current MID SIZE truck for.
As someone doing light construction the Ranger is semi capable, but restricted. If I was doing it as a living the ranger would go in a heartbeat for a full size. Sheets of plywood and drywall can't lay flat in the bed. Limits how much I can take and makes it a pain in the ass to move them. I bought 10 bags of mineral wool insulation sunday. I had to make sure they were still wrapped on the pallet. If it was broken down to individual bags expand so much I wouldn't be able to take that many. A full size wouldn't have been an issue, and would have been able to fit more. I can't tow small construction equipment (bobcat, ditch witch, tractor). That leaves me farming out work I could have diy'd by renting out the necessary equipment.
There is a reason there are multiple classes of trucks. As a non-owner you aren't the one to be talking about distinctions.
perkele_possum@reddit
You've doubled down on deliberately avoiding my point about the actual difference in physical dimensions versus the technical classifications. So I'm done with this discussion.
I'm not sure what the snide "non-owner" comment is supposed to mean. You don't know what I currently or previously have owned. I can say for certain that a Maverick is ~3 inches narrower than a Ranger, so I don't know where you get a 14 inch figure from; it's not a Kei truck. I have to question if you've ever been in a truck before.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
You are lopping the mirrors off both vehicles to get your "width".
You think nearly a foot difference in length in a vehicle is insignificant. By this same logic the honda accord shouldn't exist because it is just like a civic. Might as well get rid of all midsize cars because the possum knows best.
Questions if I have been in a truck. Ignores my flair and comment history. Put on your tin foil hats folks. Guy who claims and has posted pictures of his car collection is lying about the cheapest thing in his flair. Some real top notch logic there. I am sure Ford is gonna get right on following your lineup suggestions.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
No. The Maverick is 100% a compact in terms of physical size and capability. It's in the same class as the original Ranger and the 90s Taco and Nissan Hardbody.
probsdriving@reddit
Nah. Maverick is 110% a class size smaller vs. the latest mid-size offerings. Tacoma is 6in taller, wider, and 13in longer. Look closely next time you see a new Canyon or Tacoma, squint and you'll think they're half-tons.
perkele_possum@reddit
If you cherry pick the largest mid-sizers, then sure, they're a bit bigger. From what I'm seeing your purported Tacoma specs are a bit inaccurate. The BOF trucks are taller, but that's because of a body physically sitting on top of a frame instead of being integrated. They also ride much higher unladen because of the heavy duty springs to handle much heavier loads. You could get a lowering kit to bring it down to the Maverick's level and make it apples to apples and it wouldn't be much taller in reality.
If you compare it to the Ridgeline, a much more reasonable test, the mid-sizer is only a couple inches taller, less than a foot longer (100% of that due to the bed being a foot longer, not due to dimensions of the actual car). Sure, it's smaller overall, but it's not compact by any means.
Titan0917@reddit
Sure if you just change everything and wave your hands around a bit it would be something different. If your Corolla had an inline 6 and was RWD it would be like a Supra hatchback
perkele_possum@reddit
I'm just saying the height is an illusion of largeness, and irrelevant to how compact the vehicle is unless you have a garage made for clown cars.
Calling that changing everything is a bit of a strawman.
probsdriving@reddit
“If the Tacoma wasn’t body on frame, was several inches smaller in every dimension, AND had a lowering lot, it would be the same size”
Sure?
I don’t think you understand what a few inches (😉) looks like on a car. A 2020 Accord is only less than 3 inches narrower than a 2020 Huracan.
The Ridgeline is 6in wider than a Maverick. Double the difference between an appliance sedan and a Lamborghini.
Like dude come on.
FSUfan35@reddit
They're they size of half tons from 15 years ago
Drzhivago138@reddit
15 years ago meaning 2010? Those full-sizers are the same size as today's. Try again.
Titan0917@reddit
No they are not. They are narrower than any half ton made in the last 60+ years
tacoslayer3000@reddit
Eh not really. A new Tacoma feels much tighter in the cab than my 19 year old tundra.
LordofSpheres@reddit
It's a foot shorter, 3" narrower, and half a foot shorter vertically. That's plenty to make a distinction between midsize and compact.
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
Idk. Ford, Toyota and Nissan basically do this. They're all world vehicles with maybe a face-lift. Iirc last time I read about this, ram was considering using a world truck and maybe making some slight appearance changes, slapping a ram logo on it and selling it. The thing is, midsized trucks don't really sell that well in comparison to their fullsize counterparts at least for the American brands, but 100k units per year may be significant as long as they aren't taking away sales from the ram 1500
hehechibby@reddit
Not sure about the others but isn’t the Tacoma exclusively sold in North America? Other markets get the hilux which is smaller no?
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
You might be right. The newer Tacomas probably aren't the world trucks anymore.
Wiggles69@reddit
Were they ever? I've only ever heard of them in NA.
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
Pre 2004 it looks like they were essentially the same trucks as the hilux with various names leading up to the Tacoma nameplate. 2005 is when the hilux went with a different frame/look. The Tacoma is sold in us, Canada, Mexico and a few smaller countries/islands with the hilux everywhere else
Drzhivago138@reddit
The 1995 Tacoma was already divergent from the Hilux, though it did share doors.
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux#N140https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux#N140
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
The Tacoma was the point where they started deviating from the Hilux
UncleGrimm@reddit
I’d be shocked honestly. If you’re rural in Asia or Europe there’s plenty of good truck options more specifically suited for hauling that are way cheaper, and if you’re in the city it will barely fit anywhere and be a huge PITA to daily
Shmokesshweed@reddit
They're for North America. The Hilux is significantly more capable for payload because there's no real full size market outside of NA.
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
Idk, if my research is anywhere near accurate the 2024 hilux has a max payload of 900kg or about 1985lbs and the 2024 tacoma has a max payload of 1700lbs so not that far off
agnaddthddude@reddit
isn’t a ton? it’s advertised as such here
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
It looks to be just a few lbs off of 1 full ton
VioletGardens-left@reddit
They're the same size, except the Tacoma was made in Hilux place when the chicken tax started, the added taxes of the vehicle when they're manufactured outside the US would make it ridiculously expensive
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
They very much did this when it came out in 19. My favorite feature is when you first turn on the truck it sometimes complains about no cd in the radio. Never offered a cd player in the american market.
dissss0@reddit
The Ranger isn't 'by and for America' and it seems to be doing okay.
The Colorado isn't a 100% North American design for that matter either, Isuzu did much of the work
Gmayfield@reddit
The Colorado split off from Isuzu 2 generations ago in 2012
Drzhivago138@reddit
That one was still related to the global Colorado/Isuzu D-Max. The newest one is not.
BrosenkranzKeef@reddit
No, but Australia is basically America with an accent. Their automotive culture is very similar to ours, just physically smaller literally in terms of both the market and the size of the vehicles.
WigginIII@reddit
So Ram could release the Buck. Give it a mild hybrid 4c turbo or even better a v6 turbo and price it at 35k.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Chicken tax is mainly issue why they not bring Landtrek. Otherwise, the price in that truck should’ve been very competitive, as the truck is designed and made by Changan.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Can build it off the gladiator chassis. Do a street truck and toss a 6.2 in it. Make the fastest pickup ever sold from factory then sell lesser models based on the halo truck.
Term-Such@reddit
Truck or jeep ? Which one’s better in the long run?
Jaymez82@reddit
The Gladiator is as close as I am going to get to my dream truck. I wish it could be had with a longer bed. The pricing is just too stupid for me to justify buying, though. I would have gladly bought a Gladiator Sport instead of my Colorado if it were more reasonably priced.
turboash78@reddit
Better make it a crew cab so the bed is completely useless!!!
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
Absolutely completely useless
Drzhivago138@reddit
5' is the norm for crew cab small pickups, which most of the world has been fine with for 45+ years.
nuggles00@reddit (OP)
Oof. Yeah, all I want is a regular cab...
DaRiddler70@reddit
Wasn't the Gladiator supposed to give us a new Dakota?
ANYTHING_WITH_WHEELS@reddit
I had a rental gladiator during the Covid days when I was in Dallas and I was impressed with the truck with how it drove. Unfortunately in my opinion, they could put new sheet metal on the existing platform but Stellantis doesn’t have a compelling engine option to make it any better than the GM’s twins with the V6, now 2.7L I4. Especially now with the ranger having the optional 2.7L V6 for $2200, that’s a damn capable mid size truck.
A base inline 6 hurricane making 420hp/470tq in a Dakota would be a hell of a truck. Make it crew cab with a 5.5 ft bed. Slightly bigger than the current ranger and Colorado. Use the frame from the ram 1500 classic, shrink it down about 80%.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
Exact same takeaway from my time having a rental Gladiator. I really liked how well it drove, loved taking the removable hard top off, and liked how it was optioned out.
But dear god could that thing not get out of its own way. Waaaaaaay too little power (and what little it did have was in the wrong part of the RPM range) for how heavy and large of a vehicle that thing is. They're around 6000lbs, which is more than 1000lbs heavier than an average F-150.
MyAlternatorIsOnFire@reddit
Yeah, because everyone is pining for another dodge Dakota /s
Manufacturers really need to look at why certain models failed. It wasn't just the size.
Vhozite@reddit
What was wrong with the Dakota? Genuinely asking
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
They rusted away if you looked at them funny, and the 3rd gens weren't the best looking and were gas hogs for how little power they had. Also, as is standard for mid 00s Chrysler, electrical issues.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
IMO, nothing other than the market in general shifting away from small trucks and into the era of the ubiquitous CUV. Hell, they made them for nearly 25 years; probably longer than that redditor has been alive.
Falanax@reddit
Why isn’t the Dakota back? Everyone else brought back their midsize.
apoctank@reddit
other than the ranger which mid size ever went away?
donnysaysvacuum@reddit
Colorado
BryLinds@reddit
/GMC Canyon
Also the Ridgeline counts right?
apoctank@reddit
that depends entirely on who you ask
apoctank@reddit
didn't realize they skipped a few years a while back TIL
TunakTun633@reddit
Up until this year, the RAM 1500 Classic filled the price brakcet for a midsize truck. A lazy solution for sure, but probably better for a whole lot of potential buyers. And easy.
jokerzwild00@reddit
For some reason I always thought the Rebel was a midsize. I had to Google it just now, I thought I was going crazy. Didn't realize it was a 1500 trim. I've only seen like 2 irl and they seemed smaller, I figured it was Dodge's Ranger competition. To me the only thing out there now that resembles older small trucks is the Maverick and it stands out like a sore thumb for that reason. I've never even seen one of those Hyundai trucks before aside from on the internet but I assume it's similar size.
Drzhivago138@reddit
The 1500 Classic model was priced like a mid-size.
Skybreak2020@reddit
Ram CEO: “I want a mid-sized truck so bad”.
Stellantis: manufacturers a mid-sized truck that is so bad.
Ram CEO: 🫤
AspektUSA@reddit
Yeah there’s a Fiat mid size pick up based on a Chinese one if you gotta have Italian Mopar
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
RAM 700
Nephroidofdoom@reddit
Mopari!
J0kutyypp1@reddit
Fiat Toro is built on Fiat's own platform instead of a chinese one.
AspektUSA@reddit
Yeah was referring to the Titano
kenriko@reddit
It’s funny because it’s true
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Tim, you have one. Actually, you have a few thousand. They're rotting on dealer lots
peakdecline@reddit
Ram doesn't have a mid-size truck and the Gladiator wouldn't make for an appropriate platform for a Ram mid-size truck.
spongebob_meth@reddit
It makes a fine platform for a midsize truck. It's only crime is being ugly.
peakdecline@reddit
Solid front axle and removable roof are inherently divisive design points. It rides rougher and is much louder than anything else even if it looked, to you, amazing.
spongebob_meth@reddit
Solid axles ride smoother because they have more wheel travel. Tire wear is also more even because it doesn't have active camber.
The steering is vague, so that's polarizing.
The gladiator is good because it has a solid axle. I love how smooth my jeeps ride compared to IFS vehicles, which pound you to oblivion off-road. CV axle geometry severely limits your travel.
peakdecline@reddit
None of the modern equivalents to the Gladiator lack wheel travel. A Colorado ZR2, Ranger Raptor, even the Tacomas (4th gen) all ride smoother over off-road because each side of the suspension in front can react independently and forces are not transmitted across the axle. The Gladiator's travel advantage, which only exists in the Rubicon form, comes into play in technical and slow moving situations but before then... no.
And this can be proven when you throw them up on a RTI ramp. Or hell a CTI ramp too.
These modern off-road IFS trucks have 10" of travel up front, decently in both up and down travel.
Yes, one huge advantage is when you start lifting dollar-for-dollar the Gladiator gains a lot more. But that's not what most do. Having been in the Jeep community a lot, and this applies to IFS trucks in my experience... frankly most people do more to ruin the way their Jeep rides than help it. Puck lifts, lifts lacking full geometry correction, etc, etc. Those are the norm.
The Gladiator is different because of the solid front axle. I don't think to the majority of the market, which I don't consider my self part of but I'm not so obtuse I can't see what appeals to them, doesn't want it.
The Gladiator's frame geometry wise is weird. I think on the fact its so narrow alone it would be limiting to design a traditional truck on. Likewise I doubt its front end setup is ideal to do an IFS setup on (and you can litigate your feelings on this again if you want but its flat out pointless to suggest Ram would go for a solid front axle Dakota, its not happening).
I also don't think they'd want to position the Dakota as being longer than competition but with a shorter bed. Again... an inherent design aspect to the Gladiator's frame.
While I ultimately suspect the Gladiator continues being its own thing. I'd say its more likely a future Gladiator is built on a different platform, one designed for a more traditional mid-size truck setup, than it is a Dakota gets made on the Gladiator's.
spongebob_meth@reddit
I can get 12" from a base model jeep with trivial bolt-on mods.
Forces aren't transmitted across the axle because there is nothing on the other side of the axle to react against, besides the sway bar (disconnect this). It's on a virtual pivot.
A base model gladiator rides far better than a base model Colorado/Tacoma. A few simple mods to increase make it ride even smoother.
I'm not spending $60k on a new zr2. That's idiotic. Give me a truck with the potential (solid axle) and I'll improve it how I see fit. I also want a stick shift, which locks me into a Tacoma.
A base model Colorado rides like shit and there's basically nothing you can do to fix it short of a solid axle swap.
peakdecline@reddit
Comparing modified to stock and making up prices isn't a way to have a rational discussion.
spongebob_meth@reddit
Was just at a dealer looking at a zr2 and sticker was close to 60. After taxes and other fees you're well over 65. That price isn't made up.
I'm going to compare modified because I'm going to modify it. If you're just going to pigeonhole yourself into a bone stock vehicle then i guess buuysomething else. This isn't a vehicle for you.
peakdecline@reddit
Are you talking Canadian prices? Because that's the only rational way you'll find a ZR2 for $60K.
And no this is how you try to win an argument that you know you're losing. The fact alone you're trying to convince yourself that forces don't transmit across a solid axle is wild but that's on you. And I already acknowledged that the gains dollar for dollar on a gladiator can be greater. You still actually have to put on enough components to maintain proper geometry if you even want to maintain a stock quality ride. Cuz you can really screw up the geometry in a hurry and get a total mess which is what I've experienced many times.
Ultimately there's just no way forward here. You're trying to make a case for your specific situation and that's fine and dandy and you do that. But I cannot address every single specific person's desires or how they want to build a truck. That's not how we can have a discussion about the larger market.
spongebob_meth@reddit
When you pick a 2x4 up by one end, does the other end lift off the ground and magically levitate?
Because that seems to be your understanding of the dynamics of a solid axle
peakdecline@reddit
What? That's asinine and you know it, or I hope you know it. The force is pushing the other end into the ground. And in this case since the ground isn't going anywhere there's a force pushed back into the suspension.
Both sides of the suspension are inherently tied together. There's no getting around this. I have no clue what's going on in your brain but your silly thought experiment suggests you're making no effort for good faith.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Shmokesshweed@reddit
Sure, but Stellantis' failure to move them at this point isn't going to magically get them to deliver funding for a new midsize for Ram. Too much competition from other brands.
peakdecline@reddit
Why wouldn't it? If anything it might be a message to the Stellantis executive team and board that the Gladiator's approach, though frankly I think its much more the Gladiator's pricing, isn't the right one for a Stellantis mid-size truck.
Moreover, he's not the only Stellantis head of a brand talking about needing to rethink their strategy a bit with their mid-size trucks.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/jeep-gladiator-pickup-truck-bob-broderdorf-interview/
It seems to me now that Tavares has been pushed out the brand heads are taking this opportunity to try to push for changes in the US market. Which... makes sense. Clearly they were doing something wrong. These are people are new to their positions. They're trying to shake things up.
And again, whatever you think of the Gladiator, it isn't the type of mid-size truck Ram would deliver.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
The Gladiator is for Jeep customers that want a truck. That's gotta be a pretty small market.
With a Ram midsize, they'd capture a bigger segment.
But I don't think they're interested in competing with Ram in this segment. That would require a pretty big bet against Ford, Toyota, Chevy, etc. who are already having trouble getting 2024 inventory off lots. I'm seeing Ranger Raptors sitting for days and under MSRP. Ranger XLT and Lariats 5-7k under MSRP. Without any bargaining.
Pricing wise...not great for Ram's margin.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
I wanted a Gladiator. I looked at them twice. When they first came out and then when I got my ranger. I love the idea of a removable top truck. I wanted a 4x4 for weather, but not interested in off roading.
For the money, you get less than the competition. My 18 colorado might as well have been a spaceship compared to an equal priced gladiator. Colorado had lane assist and a touch screen, gladiator had roll up windows. Both times I could have a stripper model gladiator or a well optioned Chevy/Ford.
I wanted a manual. Gladiator manual had a 2k lb towing capacity. Mid size truck, 2k lb towing capacity is baffling. It also had a stop sale the second time i looked at it.
peakdecline@reddit
I strongly believe Gladiator sales dropped because Jeep pricing, Gladiator included, went through the roof with nothing material in return to the customer.
Trucks for decades were always available with discounts. That's when the market was healthiest and its actually when these brands were moving the most product.
2020/2021/2022 (kind of) were the anomalies. That's not the basis to judge things. Just because there are discounts on trucks doesn't mean the sky is falling (or that things are bad at all, actually).
Chevy just had its strongest mid-size trucks sales since 2019. GMC had its best sales year ever. Frontier its best sales year since 2019. We'll have to judge Ranger and Tacoma sales more on next year because they didn't have full sales years.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
We shall see what happens. More competition is always good, especially for folks that don't have brand loyalty, of which admittedly there are very few folks in this segment. 😆
re4ctor@reddit
They could convince themselves the gladiator is too niche and divisively styled and that a baby 1500 probably would do better (I think it would, but whether that justifies a billion to build it…)
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Right, I think that's the big question. "With this money in the bank, how do we return the best profit?"
fatitalianstallion@reddit
It would. It can for every engine in the lineup, from a 4 banger to hellcat. Do a street truck instead of off-road with independent front suspension. Hellcat midsize street truck will fly for 2-3 model years. 392 versions will sell en mass if starting under 50k.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
Fuck yeah, bring street trucks back!!
arup02@reddit
Ram Rebel?
Kongary@reddit
They've had years to start doing the work on the obvious need for bringing back Dakota or equivalent. It's just plain silly at this point that they haven't.
Altodial@reddit
They lost Hammond to a Ranger Raptor for that reason.
The0verlord-@reddit
For a second, I thought this was a Jurassic Park joke
Dizzy-Passage9294@reddit
They can't even sell what they have now.
about78kids@reddit
Because it’s fucking ugly lmao
BadEngineer_34@reddit
I would buy the shit out of a Dakota hellcat based on the last generation Durango
Threedawg@reddit
Would you actually though?
BadEngineer_34@reddit
I mean I had a hellcat Durango which is just as unnecessary of a vehicle and I never used the back seats though so like the truck idea
It did get stolen though so maybe you have a point 😬
Threedawg@reddit
Holy shit you actually might buy one. 99.9998% of the time people are just saying that.
BadEngineer_34@reddit
Hahaha ok “buy the shit out of” might have been an overstatement but if they didn’t fuck the styling up and kept the price in like the 90 or less range then my dumb ass would probably end up with one ya lol
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
MSRP $80,000
Dealer Market Adjustment $30,000
Interest rate 7%
tokyo_engineer_dad@reddit
Best I can give you is ill comment on Reddit how badly I'd like a manual single cab 6 foot bed option and then say I'd wait for it in the used market, but never buy it.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Yes, absolutely. There are no high performance street trucks from factory. Fp700 is technically aftermarket and super snake sport is just a Tuscany build.
Privateer_Lev_Arris@reddit
No.
OvONettspend@reddit
A tale as old as time
NOLA-J@reddit
Needs a V8 like all previous gen Dakotas, otherwise what's the point?
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
You're not wrong, but even the v8 in fullsize trucks got canned.
spongebob_meth@reddit
That thing is ugly AF. Why is the bed so tall
Why not just shrink the ram body down and slap it on the gladiator frame
MustangCoyote@reddit
"We want to make money but don't want to invest any money"
CorporalCreatesTF2@reddit
Did he forget the Dakota existed? Like the Ranger and Gm twins made comebacks, why not a Ram Dakota? Instead of 1200 which can be made for international markets, Dakota for NA only. Take the existing platform and power train of the Jeep Gladiator, modify with Ram body, 3.6 penta v6, bed and cab sizes, hell maybe a diesel Cummins inline 4 option like the duramax was in the Colorado/canyon. Same trims and similar stylings like 1500 and it’s perfect!
perkele_possum@reddit
It would take a fair chunk of R&D dollars and time to "RAM-ify" the Gladiator. The Gladiator is ostensibly an awful truck at doing truck things, since its philosophy is to be a Wrangler that is less bad at doing truck things. Need to ditch the solid-axle in the front, rework the entire suspension so it can handle payload, make a new interior, etc. It's not just bolting a new body that magically exists to a Gladiator frame.
You'll also need a new powertrain to be frank. The Pentastar is a perfectly fine engine to have as the base, but if they just send it out the factory with only a Pentastar then it's a new model that is worst in class everything. The leaders are over 400lb-ft of torque and numbers sell trucks. The Pentastar can maybe scrape same Nissan Frontier sales for people that just want a simple V6 truck, but the Frontier has only been doing ~60k units a year, so there's not much market to steal.
One option is the Wrangler plug-in hybrid that has allegedly been in the works for the Gladiator. The powertrain has dubious reliability but it would give it something unique in the mid-size market. Especially with the ability to offboard meaningful power that every other midsizer lacks.
The other is the new hurricane inline-6. That would make it competitive with the others on power, but fitting an inline-6 into a smaller truck may be tough. In any case it'll require engineering.
CorporalCreatesTF2@reddit
Sure the current gladiator isn’t great. I meant that if they took design from that chassis or looked at the 1500 chassis to downsize and modify for mid-size use. Of course it’ll take time and money but it would be worth bringing the Dakota back as a RAM mid size truck to compete. I do agree that Pentastar probably won’t be high seller like Frontier v6 because it’s old and everyone’s going for turbo inline 4s. Personally v6 are still going to be favored for towing and hauling reliability. Hybrid option they’re trying to make is definitely worth looking into. I’m just saying other than the v6, maybe Chrysler can bring out either basic 4 cylinder or hybrid 4 cylinder would be enough for the truck. Personally not big fan of the hurricane i6, don’t think twin turbos on a smaller engine for full size use will last plus I don’t think it’ll fit anything smaller than full size. I think possibly for the Dakota could comeback if Chrysler can either find a good v6 alternative or start using the hybrid tech. Or like I said since new Larger Cummins engines are coming maybe a smaller mid size variant could be also interesting to see.
wot_in_ternation@reddit
Are we being gaslit into allowing foreign small trucks in the US? I have no idea what the fuck is going on anymore.
These small trucks are all over Mexico and probably elsewhere. We should have had these all along.
howaboutbecause@reddit
Please do, we need some car-sized "trucks" (utes) in Australia as we can't make them anymore. Send V8's and turbo 6's and make them sporty, please.
ProfessorWizarddyy@reddit
What we need --> small diesel trucks again.
Weak_Succotash_5470@reddit
ram the ceo with my balls
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
Is this the new meta for auto CEOs? Gazing wistfully into the middle distance in their press room and sighing about how they wish they sold categories of vehicles that they spent the last 15 years eradicating from the market with extreme prejudice?
nuggles00@reddit (OP)
Yes.
tellem24@reddit
This is like me saying "I want a pizza so bad" back when i worked at a pizza place. So just... do it??
SigmaKnight@reddit
Just need to modernize the 2001 Dakota Quad Cab Sport.
Gh07ms3@reddit
I mean its a hot market. Especially in the offroad segment. A new dakota, done well, would probably sell
OvONettspend@reddit
If only there was someone who had the ability to set that dream in motion. Maybe a Chief Executive of said brand. Oh well, I guess a Ram CEO can dream
peakdecline@reddit
If you read the article it does indeed sound like he's hinting the product is coming. But likewise Ram is a brand under a conglomerate. Just because the CEO of the brand wants to make the product does not mean he'll be given the greenlight to do it. And in fact that's a large part of why Kuniskis left Dodge, because Tavares, the former Stellantis CEO, was not allowing him to run it like he desired. Now that Tavares is gone it seem the American heads of brands at Stellantis are pushing the Stellantis executive team and board to greenlight products that are more attuned with the American market.
OvONettspend@reddit
It’s just the optics of the headline that’s funny. A CEO crying to the press because his company isn’t making something. Goes to show how well this trainwreck is running
Reduxalicious@reddit
Honestly, when the Ranger came back and Colorado and Canyon stepped up their game with the ZR2/AT packages, I was surprised Ram didn't have a Midsize ready to go after the 19 Ram redesign was such a hit.
andy9775@reddit
They should build a midsize with a diesel, and 2k lb of payload (in the fully loaded model).
WATTHEBALL@reddit
That'd be great. But please don't make it look anything like the thumbnail. A squished version of the full current full size with awkward proportions.
baummer@reddit
So. Make. One.
The_real_bandito@reddit
He means this:
https://momentcar.com/images/ford-ranger-2000-1.jpg
mhammer47@reddit
If only he was in a position of influence there.