Spain proposes 100% tax on homes bought by non-EU residents
Posted by polymute@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 225 comments
Posted by polymute@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 225 comments
Rezmir@reddit
That is not only fair but I have no clue how isn’t it normal. Higher tax for non residents. Higher tax for companies and corporations.
Housing should not be investments.
FollowTheLeads@reddit
I wish the same could be done in the US. People with more than 3 houses should also have to way 100% more in taxes as well.
Houses are for people to live.
Rezmir@reddit
Let’s be real. Two houses should be enough. One for living and one for getting away. More than that and it should be considered investment.
Shady_Yoga_Instructr@reddit
Do we actually know if that's the case most of the time? My parents bought 3 houses with the intention of leaving 1 for each kid. I'm planning on buying a house later since we are gonna have 2 kids and are gonna follow suit.
mcnewbie@reddit
if you've got enough money to buy three houses as future investments for your infant children with no intention of living in them yourself then you can pay the tax for having multiple houses.
Nurple-shirt@reddit
You don’t need much money to get a 2nd mortgage. Once you’ve built enough equity off your first house, the bank won’t have any issues letting you get a 2nd one if you simply rent it during the time your children grow. Again, once proven reliable a third mortgage isn’t so far fetched.
All that is off the table if you refuse to leave somewhere that is prohibitively expensive.
mcnewbie@reddit
oh, yeah, of course, the more money you have, the easier it is to invest in real estate and make money off your money.
Nurple-shirt@reddit
Took me 4 years to come up with the down payment for my first home. Sure it’s easier if straight up have the money but that’s not realistic for most people. Unless you are born into wealth, it is earned through hard work, sacrifices and healthy financial decision making.
It’s something you work upon.
mcnewbie@reddit
buying homes for your children is the quintessential example of being born into wealth
Nurple-shirt@reddit
I was under the impression that you moved the conversation passed what the original subject was. No, it does not automatically mean you are born into wealth lol. I swear some of you are so poor the bar to what is considered rich is unreasonably low.
Owning multiple properties is litteraly possible on an 70k income. Like come on, try a little…
mcnewbie@reddit
"lol ur just poor"
Nurple-shirt@reddit
More like "lol ur just financially incompetent"
mcnewbie@reddit
"lol ur just poor and stupid"
Nurple-shirt@reddit
I’m sorry this offended you so much you can’t help yourself from coming back lol.
Shady_Yoga_Instructr@reddit
Exactly, parents bought their houses in an area that was now income but safe in the 1990's so mortgages were not a problem and tenants used to be more reliable so everyone was better off
Rezmir@reddit
Sure. Why don’t you buy in the kids name then?
Nurple-shirt@reddit
Banks don’t give mortgages to children.
mcnewbie@reddit
if you've got enough money to buy three houses as future investments for your infant children with no intention of living in them yourself then you can pay the tax for having multiple houses, sure.
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
But the kid can be put on the deed when it's paid off.
Nurple-shirt@reddit
That is not what "buying in the kids name" means.
Shady_Yoga_Instructr@reddit
I'm honestly not opposed to that idea so you can settle down now jimbo
From_Deep_Space@reddit
Why not give the money to the kid then let them shop for what they need when they're ready to own a house?
You're planning on buying 2 houses, keeping them off the market and maintaining them until your kids move out?
Nurple-shirt@reddit
Seeing how property costs has risen. It would be the smart thing to do if that what they want for their children.
Shady_Yoga_Instructr@reddit
Because you are essentially wasting money by letting it sit in a bank account due to 1: Inflation and 2: Changing interest rates
You also get the benefit of renting the house (Partly or whole) and using the income from the tenants to pay the mortgage or shore up savings in case a tenant stop paying hence why buying a house and renting 1 floor is so popular as a means of creating wealth. The owner takes all the financial risk and physical work of keeping the house running while the tenant is just liable for keeping a job and paying the rent.
I wish more people owned homes so they actually knew how much cost and investment it takes to actually keep the place running cause everyone thinks home ownership is a free ride and my years of having to cleanup up and fix all the shit that breaks at our second home was anything but free or easy.
SectorSanFrancisco@reddit
Might be they want to make sure it's available in a particular area.
Dovahkenny123@reddit
Well, yeah actually I don’t think any family NEEDS 5 houses while many people don’t even have 1
CurbYourThusiasm@reddit
Must be nice to just be handed a fucking house. Talk about living life on easy mode.
Elloitsmeurbrother@reddit
While there are people out there with none, one is enough
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Na, investment properties for rentals is important as well. There are plenty of people who can't afford to buy and need options.
Elloitsmeurbrother@reddit
Investment properties are one of the reasons people can't afford to buy
ponchoPC@reddit
If there is no rental properties the only option for housing is buying driving house prices up, making housing more unaffordable. Renting being an option is overall good for consumers. What might not be as good is being able to put hundreds of units to rent as a monopoly of sorts in neighborhoods/towns.
SETHW@reddit
You have a stunted imagination or at least a lack of curiosity if you cant envision a world without landlords
ponchoPC@reddit
The world as we know it works with economic forces. I would like to have great housing for all at some point, but the optimal way of allocating it currently is by allowing people to have as many ways of accessing it. For those who can’t afford it, using social housing and subsidies. Until there is a pragmatic way of doing what you’re saying, I’ll continue believing the above. But I’m curious, what solution(s) do you prescribe?
Elloitsmeurbrother@reddit
Man, i don't know how you can't read back what you just wrote and see what's wrong with it, so i don't like my chances of being able to explain it to you.
ponchoPC@reddit
Let me put it this way. If I had a primary house and bought a second house as an investment, I’d be interested in either remodeling and selling or renting for market price. If I had only the first option, people who need housing would only have the buying option which is first of all inconvenient as fuck for a big amount of people and second gonna drive up the price of housing since more people would need to buy as opposed to rent.
This is what I understand from when I studied Microeconomics, but I could be wrong. Feel free to lmk where I’m wrong. :)
ScaryShadowx@reddit
People buying excessive investment properties and banking on them going up in value is what is driving up prices as well as more and more people moving into cities.
There are plenty of people living paycheck to paycheck who will never earn enough to buy a property. Even if house prices were to drop drastically, the lump sum is something that far exceeds the budget capacity of many people. These people are not going to suddenly be able to afford buying a property.
There are so many people, even outside those that can't afford, that need rental options. Students, expats, people awaiting home builds, people moving to be closer to family temporarily, etc.
YourPlot@reddit
You don’t need people or corporations to own rentals. They can be coops.
2ndRandom8675309@reddit
What exactly do you think a "co-op" is? It's just another form of business entity that allows people to pool resources. It's functionally the same as a partnership or a member managed LLC.
StrawberryGreat7463@reddit
wait so how is that worse than some random investment company?
2ndRandom8675309@reddit
There's nothing to stop a group of "investors" from forming a co-op and buying property, other than that it's the dumbest business entity to use other than a general partnership.
I'm saying it's the same damn thing, just with slightly different legalities to the operation of the business.
BlueZinc123@reddit
Extensive public housing creates much more affordable options than private investment (See Vienna)
ImNotAGiraffe@reddit
I've bought 5 houses over my lifetime and am now retired living off just renting out, there's no need to punish people like me for figuring out a retirement plan like this.
atomic_judge_holden@reddit
There absolutely is. You should’ve invested your money in something productive to the world, like a small business, rather than lining your pockets. You’re scum.
Elloitsmeurbrother@reddit
Watch me
ShinobuSimp@reddit
But you can punish people who can’t afford a place to live by inflating real estate prices?
Houses are for living, not for speculation, if you want a retirement plan go invest or start a business…
Rokossvsky@reddit
We'll start with people like you first.
apmechev@reddit
While there are people out there with none, one is too much. The government should size houses and redistribute them equitably
BobMcGeoff2@reddit
You mean seize
I-Here-555@reddit
There are strong practical reasons for more than two.
Two is a bare minimum is you're buying a house before you sell the other one. Would be awful to force people to sell on a short notice.
ShinobuSimp@reddit
That can easily be figured out by having a grace period, but what exactly would be a strong practical reason for more than two?
ShinzoTheThird@reddit
Fr, thats why hotels exist no need for 3 houses
seattle_lib@reddit
just stop fucking around with all this nonsense and read your Henry George. i can't believe we still don't understand that the solution is land value taxation, what is this world.
Gomeria@reddit
i dont quite understand, the US has a lot of space, why is housing a problem?
you can buy some land and put a house in there
Nurple-shirt@reddit
Most of these people absolutely refuse to leave the city and rebuild themselves somewhere more affordable.
GentlemanEngineer1@reddit
And not just a city, but their specific city. New Yorkers are definitely the worst in this regard, but there's plenty of people who act like they're chained to the zip code they were born in.
Nurple-shirt@reddit
They’d rather complain on reddit than get a lower paying job in a much more affordable area.
Czart@reddit
The absolute nerve on some people right? They want comfort? Pah, that's reserved for the elites. Jack and Lilly should be happy to slave away for their corporate overlord. Another yacht won't buy itself after all.
Nurple-shirt@reddit
I consider comfortable to be a stocked fridge, reliable heating and a clean home.
Czart@reddit
Ah yes, not starving, not freezing, and not filthy. Peak comfort.
Nurple-shirt@reddit
It’s the little things in life that makes things enjoyable
GentlemanEngineer1@reddit
And what are Jack and Lilly's responsibilities in providing a comfortable living for themselves?
faileb@reddit
It’s insane how obtuse some of the responses you’re getting are lmao
Icy-Cry340@reddit
You can buy some land, perhaps in some dying-ass town where homes are dirt cheap, but then what will you do? Homes near well-earning jobs are eyewateringly expensive, often more expensive than those jobs will allow you to buy.
Gomeria@reddit
what's a dying ass town? a 100k city should be more than enough, obvs if u want a high paying job u have to move to a big city, but those are costful too.
i mean most of those people (not renting) have those properties over 100 years ago, i'll rather go live in a 100k ppl town and do some blue collar or go into an industry than corporate hell and living in a place that's smaller than my garage for 2000 bucks a month
ornryactor@reddit
When they said a "dying town", they were probably thinking of a place that has perhaps 1,000 people, is not near anything else, has no jobs, and has a low quality of life-- we don't usually call 100,000 people a "town", that would be a "small city" or just "city" depending on your perspective.
The US has many, many, many of these places with a few hundred residents. They are indeed dying; there is essentially no economy, no opportunity, and the infrastructure (including the housing) is in poor condition. They are leftover places from older eras when more people were farmers or ranchers or loggers or miners, but now those industries are fine it have changed, and those old jobs didn't exist so people move to the cities. The only people left in these small dying towns and villages are older people who have owned that home for most of their life; they are 'stuck' there because they can't afford to move somewhere else even if they wanted to leave the only place they've ever lived.
Gomeria@reddit
Oh, makes sense, in my brain town/city are the same, its just a language difference. MB. I always tought those small population centers were called villages
I surely meant a small city, in my town we have one more city in 180km and then 500km away the BIG City.
Working on industry or blue collar in places like this means making bank (for the City standars)
ChibiYoukai@reddit
Unfortunately, the word village isn't really used in modern American English for our communities. We know what at village is, but for the most part, it's really only used in relation to small European communities, or to historical / fantasy books. I spent a big chunk of my childhood living in the UK due to my Dad's job, and it was culture shock moving back into the states and being looked at weird calling small towns villages.
Icy-Cry340@reddit
Blue collar and industry jobs are also more plentiful near major population centers, where housing is quite expensive. Homes are cheap in aging, shrinking towns, but the jobs are leaving those towns along with their young people. What you're describing is just not that simple in practice.
Gomeria@reddit
Its how my country works with no problem.
If you are a plumber in a 100k town you will make bank, if you are a plumber in 10k town, you can live confortably if there are only 3 or 4 plumbers
Icy-Cry340@reddit
Trades like plumbing and electrical work are probably the healthiest occupations, but they also depend on the other residents doing well. Here is something I lifted from another redditor that tells an all-too typical story in the US.
bschlueter@reddit
Sure, there's lots of land in total, but there's only so much which is near services and distribution centers—a.k.a. towns and cities—and that land is generally owned and/or under zoning rules which make development difficult.
Each of these locations is administered by distinct governing bodies which each have to decide to change their rules, both to allow the land to be used for housing (and separately for how dense the housing can be, America really loves it's single family detached homes which take up a ton of space for just a few people) and to incentivise people and other entities who own land to either develop it themselves or sell it to someone (or some company) who will.
So despite having all this space, the land where people would want to live has over time been cut up into areas which may have served there in the past well, but do not provide adequate housing for the current demands. For new housing to come to be, the local government of the land has to update it's rules in spite of NIMBY's and others who might be opposed AND someone has to want (which usually means they need to be incentivised by tax cuts) to build new housing, which is expensive because of the economy and other rules which are in place to ensure safety and insurability.
Yes, the land is here, but it's not as simple as just finding some empty land and building.
kimana1651@reddit
So who owns an an apartment complex then?
daanavitch@reddit
Each person living in one of the apartments owns a percentage of the complex. Isn’t that common sense in the US?
kimana1651@reddit
Apartments are not permanent residences in the US. They are temporary. They cost more but you can move in and out as you like. If you has to put down $100,000 to buy into the complex people would have nowhere to live.
2ndRandom8675309@reddit
It's rare. Only in certain large cities do people buy living spaces called "apartments". The term here would usually be a condominium. Most apartments are more a spread out complex of 10-15 buildings that might have 4-8 spaces per building, and are usually 3 stories at most. The US has practically unlimited room to build cities wide rather than tall once you're outside the New England coastal area.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The state, a non-profit, co-op board, all sorts of options
Hyadeos@reddit
Well, we could use the same in France. Paris is ridiculously expensive because of emiratis and americans buying properties for crazy prices.
Days_End@reddit
Corporate taxes are just a regressive tax that mostly hurts the poor. It's like a flat income tax. We'd be much better off adjusting our progressive income tax bands/rates.
Rezmir@reddit
In the housing case? Not really. If you think I am talking about just a little bit, you misunderstood my point. I am talking about making it impossible to be lucrative. Building and selling should be the business. Not owning and renting.
nhzz@reddit
thats a recipe for negative housing growth
Rezmir@reddit
Because the current housing growth is making wonders to living right? It seems crazy talk but companies are creating and buying houses because how lucrative it is to rent and it won't get any better. Without saying much, this is happening (from my experience and knowleadge) in at least Germany, Canada, Portugal, Belgium, Brazil, Japan, South Korean and some others.
From your country, I do have a client with around 200 houses in Buenos Aires alone with plans to expand to up to 1k in the next few years and this is one company alone. I have no clue why the hell people are not getting at least uncomfortable with this reality. There are way to many ways to use a house without renting even.
nhzz@reddit
if renting isnt lucrative, selling wont be affordable either, and people that cant afford to buy, wont have the option to rent.
LuminicaDeesuuu@reddit
What do you do about people who can't afford to buy a house when renting is unprofitable? Put them all in community houses? What do you do about all the companies that can't build houses because nobody is investing in building houses to rent?
Days_End@reddit
In all cases. If you don't want corps involved in the market pass a law banning then don't do some weird tax engineering hoping to indirectly ban them.
underwaterthoughts@reddit
Tax corporates less and people more to help people is an insane take.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The trajectory of the wealth of the poor vs corporate tax rates does not support your assertion
arostrat@reddit
funny that you'll have the opposite opinion when it's westerners that are buying properties in other countries. 100% tax is theft.
Rezmir@reddit
Nah mate. Housing problem is currently a worldwide problem.
Hugo28Boss@reddit
Radical leftist over here
MrOaiki@reddit
If housing should not be investments, what incentive does anyone have to build homes?
I-Here-555@reddit
Sell them, just like they sell any other product.
Rent seeking (in this case literally) is bad for the economy.
MrOaiki@reddit
Sell them? So no rentals, only condos?
Fuzzy-Wrongdoer1356@reddit
They won’t understand, in their minds the number of houses is finite and you cannot build more
TheFamousHesham@reddit
It’s not fair and is in fact a stupid law.
The vast majority of foreign homebuyers in Spain are… non-residents who are citizens of other EU states.
This tax would not apply to them.
Germans account for 7% of foreign homebuyers in Spain. Romanians for 5.3%. French for 5.18%. Dutch buyers account for 5.18%. Italian buyers account for 5.14%.
None of these buyers (most of whom are buying a second summer home) will have to pay any additional tax — as will none of the EU buyers.
This law only affects and discriminates against UK and Moroccan buyers who account for 8% and 6% of homes purchased by foreigners. I’m not entirely sure why you’d want to discriminate against non-EU foreigners looking to buy a summer home when they are, in fact, a minority and the vast majority of buyers are EU buyers erm… looking to do the same exact thing—buy a summer home.
Half-Wombat@reddit
Because the Eu means something. Even discouraging 5% of buyers can have huge effects downstream… especially when a market is being squeezed like it is.
Monterenbas@reddit
It’s not discrimination, Morroco and the UK are free to sign bilateral deal with Spain, as did the rest of the EU.
Monterenbas@reddit
It’s not discrimination, Morroco and the UK are free to sign bilateral deal with Spain, as did the rest of the EU.
PalladianPorches@reddit
the argument from the financial and investment industry that if they did not purchase and rent properties, they would not be built or maintained as a result of unaffordable rates. created by the financial and investment industry. 🙄
roy1979@reddit
How will RE developers make money and then contribute to politicians for campaigns?
avellaneda@reddit
That's not a thing in Spain.
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
By getting a real job, hopefully
ThosePeoplePlaces@reddit
New Zealand's conservative National party proposed an overseas buyers tax in New Zealand. Commentary on it was that it would breach various trade agreements with other countries.
There proposal was to open up property purchases to non-resident buyers, tax it at 25%, to balance the government books by exporting ownership of residential housing.
RandomMexicanDude@reddit
Whis this happened in Mexico tbh
HumaDracobane@reddit
The taxes would be applied to those who are non-EU citizens and also non residents, not anyone who is a resident but is a nom-EU member.
(A resident is considered anyone who lives in the country at least 181 days per year)
layland_lyle@reddit
He failed to mention that Spanish property prices only just went up after being stagnant for over 15 years.
Spain property taxes are already a joke and they tax foreigners a fortune.
ExArdEllyOh@reddit
The Spanish building trade was on it's arse last i heard and now they want to make it more expensive to live there...
layland_lyle@reddit
I know, but it all makes sense in some delusional alternative reality.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
In a reality where Spain doesn't give two shits if it becomes more expensive for foreigners to live there?
layland_lyle@reddit
It's more expensive for locals as well
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Really? Perhaps you could explain how a tax on non-residents makes it more expensive for locals?
layland_lyle@reddit
Buying a property in Spain is a shit show. Lawyers charge a percentage of the same price, not for the amount of work they do, agents charge a fortune and the taxes are really high. That's for everyone
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Is any of what you're complaining about the result of a 100% tax on foreign non-residents buying property?
layland_lyle@reddit
Nope, the tax on buying is high, this is that tax but higher.
My guess it's aimed at British as they buy the most and is some demented way to punish them as maybe they want something in return from the British government.
Not sure it's legal under EU law but it's been years since I've looked at that.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You don't have to guess, it's already been clearly reported why exactly they want to take this course of action: to reduce, as much as possible and legal under EU law, non-resident demand for real estate. If they could tax non-Spanish EU residents they'd probably do that too.
Also, quite legal under EU law as the UK isn't part of the EU.
But most importantly, if this tax is not in fact causing all of those issues and concerns you listed, why did you provide them when asked specificially about the impact of this tax? Why try to claim it's making resident purchases more expensive?
layland_lyle@reddit
If you believe a politicians lie then you are beyond gullible. Spain has so much land it can develop on, but it's laws are the problem, so instead of politicians saying sorry and doing something about it, they lie and blame others.
The truth is even worse. House prices are linked to GDPR, and if house prices drop, so does the Spanish economy. So what do politicians do, lie and blame it on someone else and bring in a law that will make no difference, which is exactly what they want. Only politician who wants to crash the economy and make more people suffer will actually do something to reduce property prices.
Politicians allow property prices to increase to prop up GDPR did to their other lost policies that would otherwise make GDPR go down.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Do you have some alternate theory about why this law was imposed you care to share? Because every jurisdiction that has introduced these kinds of taxes (including Canada) did it specifically to reduce demand by foreign buyers. It's a totally rational explanation supported by those jurisdictions that have imposed it and it's pretty simple to understand how and why it works: the return on investment for a property you have to pay 200% for just isn't as compelling as one you pay list price for
layland_lyle@reddit
Have Canada property prices gone down to affordable levels? The answer is no, so what a shocker.
Property prices fall, so does the economy. Politicians need to stop them increasing, but sometimes allow it to give GDPR a needed boost due to their own failures.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
So you don't have any alternate explanation for this tax? You just presume it must be for any reason besides the stated one based on... nothing?
freezingtub@reddit
What? Isn't housing in Spain actually very affordable compared to other EU countries?
layland_lyle@reddit
It's not great and their property laws are something from the dark ages.
App1eEater@reddit
And the taxes are huge!
inkjod@reddit
That's not necessarily a bad thing by itself.
App1eEater@reddit
It is if you're the one paying them
butterfunke@reddit
Explain how a tax on non-EU residents makes it harder to live there?
If you live there, then you're a resident, and won't pay the tax. It would only affect people who don't live there
pittaxx@reddit
Depends on how this is implemented.
If taxes increase, a lot of foreigners that rent their flats might also increase their prices, pushing those taxes onto the residents. And even the fraction of flats raising prices will raise the average price as well.
HumaDracobane@reddit
Yep, it is so that apparently 1/5 houses are being purchased by foreign people who doesnt live in the country
I guess it is a different kind of joke.
layland_lyle@reddit
They can't have it two ways. They depend and want tourism and now they want to tax tourists at support high levels
RandomMexicanDude@reddit
How can you compare buying a house with tourism lmao
friebel@reddit
Some people do buy houses to be kind of their lake houses in Spain and they're not even expensive from what I've heard. They live and work in another country and come just for vacation and lend that house to family/friends for their vacations. I don't argue if this is bad or good, but where do we categorize them? Surely more to the tourist side, no?
layland_lyle@reddit
Compared to the UK they are cheap, however the costs of buying are not. Also their economy is very dependent on tourism.
elperuvian@reddit
Which is a very dangerous trap, tourism jobs are mediocre and are not what a first world country like Spain should desire to have
HumaDracobane@reddit
That heavily dependsnon where you want to buy that apartment/house. In turist areas, ehere those are normaly interested, the prices are relatively similar to the UK prices or more. In the last couple of years the prices of housing went through the roof.
One-Coat-6677@reddit
Get a hotel then guiri.
layland_lyle@reddit
Old people that go live there for life and terror there can't afford that, and why should they.
HumaDracobane@reddit
People who want to retire in Spain could just rent a place, live here for 183days/year so they would be considered a resident and then purchase a house without the tax.
One-Coat-6677@reddit
It's not their country, put them in an olds folk home someplace it doesn't ruin the lives of spanish young people. And they should for the pleasure of living in Spain, or they can go elsewhere. Sovereignty is why the Spanish should be able to tax them as they please.
inkjod@reddit
If you buy housing to live there, you're no longer a tourist, you're an immigrant. Oops, sorry, I meant an "expat"!
teilani_a@reddit
Sounds amazing.
layland_lyle@reddit
If you do want to buy in Spain, go there with your trousers down and remain bent over, it will save time. Lube helps ease the pain as well.
luccabd@reddit
How awful that they want to keep their houses for locals
layland_lyle@reddit
They don't, the locals get it just as bad, that's the point
possibilistic@reddit
Unintended consequence: rich non-EU residents buy property, but never sell because they can't recoup their investment on a short time horizon.
The solution to housing problems is rarely more regulation. It's usually de-regulation (excepting safety regulations). Zoning multi-family, getting rid of things like building height limits, curb limits, parking limits, etc. Killing the NIMBY stuff especially.
It looks like Spain might have height limit regulations from the photo (I honestly have no idea about the Spain situation, but this is typical of other cities). That's capped their density and placed a supply-side constraint.
MarbleFox_@reddit
So then force them to sell 🤷♂️
arostrat@reddit
What is this, Soviet Union?
MarbleFox_@reddit
Well, I am a communist.
possibilistic@reddit
Unintended consequence: investors across all market sectors leave Spain.
HumaDracobane@reddit
Not all of them. The EU-citizens and residents in Spain could perfectly invest in the sector, and with less rivals.
MarbleFox_@reddit
“Unintended”
ProtoplanetaryNebula@reddit
Spain doesn’t have issues related to space the way some European countries do.
Particular-Zone7288@reddit
"Zoning laws" dont really exist in the EU in the same way they do in the US.
You are appying a very US centric approach to a country you admit to knowing nothing about
MrWFL@reddit
Disagree, that tax coupeled with emptyness and property tax would work.
Supply and demand are king. If you want cheaper real estate you can up supply(limited, getting new land is hard), or lower demand (like a tax on foreigners buying).
Ornery-Concern4104@reddit
Philosophically, this tax is a pretty good idea but I think it should come down to how they define residents. If I moved to France and became a french citizen, would I no longer have to pay the tax? Or is it a certain amount of time within the EU, or is it based on like fixed address?
I actually think for the united kingdoms for example, a 100% tax on all second homes and properties aren't a bad idea, or perhaps on houses in different counties then those of your fixed address. We have a major issue in the UK with second homes and land speculators which is contributing greatly to our housing crisis
HumaDracobane@reddit
You either are a eu-citizen or you are a resident in Spain (You spend legally +183 days per year). Under any of those circumstances you wont have to pay that.
Obvious-Slip4728@reddit
There is some ambiguity in this news item. It mentions both ‘non-EU residents’ and ‘non-residents from outside the EU’. They are not then same. I expect they mean the latter. So for example people from the UK living in Spain would not have to pay the higher taxes as they are residents. The propasal appears to apply only for non-residents from outside the EU. So, for example, a UK citizen living in the UK and buying a property in Spain for their holiday or to rent out.
MoralityAuction@reddit
Can't discriminate against EU citizens in the single market. Legally resident in the EU means exactly that, including France.
BrainOfMush@reddit
Kinda surprising to me they would actively look to punish UK expats, when they make up a significant amount of their net migration.
Yabbasha@reddit
Suppose is meant to be in the spirit of the Singapore second residence tax, which basically doubles for a non owner occupied property
Monterenbas@reddit
If you’re a EU citizens, you don’t have to pay the tax, it’s fairly simple.
HugoCortell@reddit
It probably won't have much of an effect, since most foreigners buy beach houses. The real issue is companies like blackrock buying most of the housing in the cities where people actually live.
I suggest a gasoline tax to solve this issue, for each euro of gasoline purchased, about 25cc of gasoline is poured over [removed by reddit]
Private_HughMan@reddit
This is a good idea. Housing shouldn't be treated as a comodity. It's a place to live. People who buy homes just to resell for profit aren't benefitting society. And people who don't even live in the homes are taking without even using. It's a net negative all around. A high tax on non-EU residents is a fantastic idea.
HumaDracobane@reddit
Considering that, apparently, 1 of every 5 houses/apartments are being purchased by people who doesnt live in the country and they do it just to speculate about housing... yeah. 100% with that.
Also, there is a misstake in the title. It is for those who are non-EU citizens AND ALSO non residents. To be considered a resident you need to live in Spain more than 6 mo ths per year (+181 days/year)
mostard_seed@reddit
So this does not apply to expats or long-term immigrants then?
HumaDracobane@reddit
According to what I've read, it shouldnt. As long as their situation is regularized and they live in the country more than 183 days per year they would be residents.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
So now we will see the phenomenon of people staying in Spain for 184 days a year
BrainOfMush@reddit
That’s not a phenomenon, that’s the global standard for establishing residency in a country, as 183 days is exactly 51% of the year. This is the same in the US for example, if you don’t spend 183 days per year in the US you lose your green card.
This is also common for determining tax residency and liabilities, especially across Schengen.
mostard_seed@reddit
That sounds a bit vague, I think. Is that a threshold that needs to be cleared once, and then a person is regularized, or does it have to be you stay more than half a year per year for a specific number in a row? An undergrad student, for example, would clear that easily across their 4 or so years of study, assuming the bar is 4 or less.
MrEclectic@reddit
Long-term immigrants are residents, so no. And fuck expats
mostard_seed@reddit
w.. what do you think "expat" means?
samjongenelen@reddit
I guess it means people driving up housing prices in this case
biscute2077@reddit
white people. immigrants? no they are brown and black. /s
lobonmc@reddit
Source
https://www.eleconomista.es/vivienda-inmobiliario/noticias/12773361/04/24/los-extranjeros-compran-1-de-cada-5-casa-en-espana-donde-invierten-y-a-que-precios-.html
Icy-Cry340@reddit
Some Brexit supporters are going to be absolutely seething lmao, boomer bongs love buying property in Spain, they were already bitching about residency stuff.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
The absolute irony of voting leave to keep the immigrants out and then immigrating to Spain
Nikadaemus@reddit
Most of the beta cucks just flee instead of protecting the sovereignty of the nation their forefathers built
Side note: my trips to SEA, they don't allow people to buy property unless you are a citizen. The West has been bamboozled in to thinking this isn't the standard operating procedure to ensure your country & culture isn't paved over in a few generations
ManbadFerrara@reddit
I can tell you for a fact you don’t need to be a citizen to buy property in Thailand, just not land. To my knowledge their country/“culture” (wink) has been holding up the last few generations just fine.
Nikadaemus@reddit
Yeah I suppose you can get a condo. They only like new stuff in LoS so they get flipped rather quickly & resale is extremely hard to get any money back out.
Land is more legit to own, and yeah Farang can't own.
They've had to protect themselves from getting overrun by very big neighbors
1/10th is CN
NamerNotLiteral@reddit
Americans essentially equate property with land because they don't really do apartments.
Trollogic@reddit
Im sorry, what? That’s just not true. Apartments are massive in the US and have been for generations. A quick Google shows that between 16% and 23% of Americans live in apartments and that percentage has been growing. They certainly have always been big in major cities here.
yumameda@reddit
That ratio is %56 for Turkey and %62 for Germany.
You do apartments a little
Trollogic@reddit
Or those two nations just do it a lot as the sample size of three nations is quite small. Brb, off to see how much other nations do apartments b/c this is an interesting topic.
yumameda@reddit
Those were the first two countries I checked. Would love you to get back to us with more research.
Trollogic@reddit
I did a quick google search and there is actually an awesome map that shows people living in apartments in Europe. The US is certainly in the lower end/toward the middle of the pack, but certainly higher than a number of European nations! That said, this graphic is from 2018-2019: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/iijybIylzJ
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
It’s hard to protect the sovereignty of your nation when all your neighbors vote against it.
capitaoboceta@reddit
A lot of places in SEA allow to own property as a foreigner, although sometimes can be picky about owning land.
Shaqtacious@reddit
Nearly every country in the world allows non citizens to buy property. Taxes vary.
mostard_seed@reddit
many countries outside of The West (tm) allow non citizens to own property. It is not uncommon at all.
cancerBronzeV@reddit
um, clearly those Brexit supporters aren't immigrants. They're expats.
Mertoot@reddit
It's actually emigration ☝️🤓
andthatswhyIdidit@reddit
No, the destination is named, so it is immigration. Emigration would be out of the UK.
Rincewindcl@reddit
Emigrating mate, but we understood what you meant, so all it well.
andthatswhyIdidit@reddit
Immigrating to Spain, emigrating from the UK.
TheChutneyFerret@reddit
I had a friend who worked for one of the Leave campaigns at the head offices. He moved to NZ very shortly after and never been back since! He knew the damage it would do, and still helped promote it!
I-Here-555@reddit
Gotta know the product you're selling.
Icy-Cry340@reddit
Freedom of movement for me but not for thee.
RandomName01@reddit
Yup, it’s just colonial mentality.
WhoisthatRobotCleanr@reddit
I know a ton of retired American military Republicans who are the same way.
Voodoocookie@reddit
This is a Brexit benefit! For Spain!
Icy-Cry340@reddit
100%
ObjectiveAnalysis645@reddit
Oh the people are about to be upset but this is a good idea I think Japan needs to start doing this too cause I think it’s currently only 20% for non residents
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Japan has a unique depreciating property market. IIRC property prices are not a problem for your average Japanese person as they are for the average American or Australian
Cakeo@reddit
Japan is difficult for foreigners to rent and buy property in fron what i had heard but i could be wrong.
AFreakBanana@reddit
Has a policy like this ever been implemented successfully? It always seems to backfire and make everything worse for everyone or have no effect. Im thinking like canada, new zealand and australia. Seems like governments just like to blame foreign money for domestic issues.
kosul@reddit
Australian here, could someone from Spain please explain how you got your Prime Minister (or opposition) to even attempt improving housing affordability?
merelyadoptedthedark@reddit
Canadian here, we put a tax on foreign buyers. House prices didn't change.
The problem here, probably also in Australia, also probably Spain, is domestic investment by the wealthy.
But it's easy to attack immigrants and foreign home buyers because they don't donate to your campaign and they don't vote.
MrEclectic@reddit
Not a Spaniard, but EU.Their government is a coalition of social democrats (PSOE) and socialists (Sumar). Unfortunately, they don't hold the absolute majority in parliament, so depend on the votes of regionalist parties.
Especially some of them are right leaning, eg the Catalan Junts, which curtail the government's ability to enact more progressive legislation. That is why the article quotes an anonymous analyst describing the proposed measure as "[...] a proposal that has slim chances of becoming law"
Nevertheless, they have a successful and relatively fair economic policy. Highest in the EU GDP growth of 3.4% for 2024, as per the Commission (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-30102024-ap)
Soggy_Association491@reddit
OMG this is so racist. How can immigrants afford home now?
Surely, the progressive and welcoming people of Spain will protest against such xenophobic and racist policy from the government, right?
felis_magnetus@reddit
When you immigrate, you become a resident - hopefully with a view to obtaining citizenship sooner or later and thus this tax does not apply to you.
Isphus@reddit
Of course the solution is always "tax more."
Why bother letting people build and live in the country when you can just price the young out until they migrate, then complain foreigners are moving in?
Also don't you need to live there to be a resident? So you can't own a home in the country until you live in a home in the country. 10/10 logic right there lol.
Lysek8@reddit
There's no renting in Brazil or what?
VoriVox@reddit
Housing is quite unaffordable in Brazil as well so everybody rents or stays with their parents, I have no clue what they're going on about. Probably saw the word "tax" and started ranting without bothering to read past the headline.
HumaDracobane@reddit
If you live more than 183 days per year you're considered a resident so if you're not a EU citizen just rent a house and live there for 183 days and then buy whatever you want.
lobonmc@reddit
You can you just need to be rich duh
RasJamukha@reddit
i dont think you understood the article
lspyfoxl@reddit
You didn't understand anything from the article.
The proposed tax isn’t a blanket "tax more" policy—it targets non-EU non-residents who buy property for speculation, driving up housing costs for locals. This isn’t about stopping people from owning homes; it’s about discouraging speculative buying that leaves locals, especially young people, priced out. The argument about needing to live there to own is a misread—this policy aims to prioritize housing for those who intend to live in Spain, not profit from it. If you care about affordability for locals, measures like this are necessary to prevent the housing market from being dominated by foreign investors.
mkdabra@reddit
What, do you think the only wait to move to a country is buying property outright? If someone wants to move to Spain they can rent like many people here do. This measure is meant to disincentivize foreign capital swooping in, buying available housing and speculating with it to the detriment of the population (outrageous rent prices, prohibitive prices for remaining properties).
My guess is that you know that, and like many other ancaps or neolibs feign ignorance ("how can someone be a resident without a home! it makes no sense! if they do this that must mean they won't do anything else, they can't possibly do this AND build housing!") just so you can spin that this is somehow bad.
BoppityBop2@reddit
It actually is, Singapore does the same to deal with congestion. It makes it costly, in this case it makes it creates a two tier market, one is for citizens and one is for non-citizens. The tax will heavily curb demand bringing prices down
Dracogame@reddit
Yes, let’s fucking go, now do the same to corporations and to people owning more than 5 properties.
This should be done all around Europe. Spain holding on to one of the remaining decent government in Europe.
last_roman@reddit
Land value tax solves this.
OptimisticRealist__@reddit
Only works if you stop the golden visas eg in malta. Otherwise its a lateral move. The wealthy will buy eu citizenship and then continue buying properties and driving up prices. Only group this might really affect are expats who work remote and travel the world while doing so.
HumaDracobane@reddit
The golden visas were blocked, iirc, in 2024 already.
Moessus@reddit
As a home owner who has seen massive appreciation on my house due to immigration, good. Keep it affordable, way better for the long run success of the country.
Additional_Olive3318@reddit
This would be an odd law for rural Spain outside the tourist hotspots where they are trying to entice people.
Why not within the EU as well? Is that in contradiction with Eu law? I suppose so.
Figarila@reddit
About time, just let them rent or become a citizen of the country if you want to live there.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
Maintainer | Creator | Source Code
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
coverageanalysisbot@reddit
Sorry empleadoEstatalBot,
I haven't found any additional coverage for this story (yet!).
I’m a bot. Read here to learn how it works or message us with any feedback so we can improve the bot for you.