How reasonable is my plan?

[-]

stephenbmx1989@reddit

Why not go through a sponsored program? My buddy in the uk did 🇬🇧

[-]

stephenbmx1989@reddit

All 0 to “airline” stuff is expensive. At least you can start flying for airlines sooner than we can in the US.

[-]

Equivalent-Web-1084@reddit

The PPL cost sounds more 2016 prices to me, I hear people are paying closer to 20k nowadays.

[-]

ContentAd5857@reddit

Yeah I just got mine with 41 hours and it costed just under $12,000. And that was cheap compared to what most were offering. 6k is completely unrealistic.

[-]

WhiteoutDota@reddit

Doing it in 41 is actually genuinely super impressive. I don't think I've met a single student who is close to being on track for that.

[-]

cmmurf@reddit

It's totally a combination of student and the instructor. There's no other explanation.

An experienced and committed instructor matters. Interview them, get referrals, ask an examiner or two.

[-]

Successful_Side_2415@reddit

I did my check ride at 42. My instructor was pretty great.

[-]

Classic_Ad_9985@reddit

20k is outrageous. I did mine 61 and with a checkride and 80 hours it was 11k.

[-]

Equivalent-Web-1084@reddit

Yeah mine was 9k back in 2016, but I've heard people tell me in passing ATP or a big school nowadays can be closer to 20.

[-]

Appropriate-Test-48@reddit

nah not always. i got mine 3 months ago for only $7,000!!

[-]

ContentAd5857@reddit

Where did you go? $7000? That’s insane

[-]

Appropriate-Test-48@reddit

my tiny local airport!! it’s an uncontrolled grass strip. they’re part of the EAA so i got a scholarship through them & trained there & only spent $7k!!

[-]

Appropriate-Test-48@reddit

dude scholarship or not, i still would’ve paid 7k

[-]

i’m so lost what is so confusing…💀 it doesn’t matter that i got a scholarship, i was still only going to pay 7k out of pocket. the price did not change. i just got money from the EAA, oh no, God forbid apparently! 🙄

[-]

SIMPaiTDP@reddit

The thing is... That 7k is the price u paid... If we are making a comparison, then we would compare with the base price (not the price u paid but the price others would have to pay)

[-]

Appropriate-Test-48@reddit

literally ANYONE wouldve had to pay 7k at this airport. they also do a $50 16 week ground school. things are just cheap here, idk what to tell yall

[-]

SIMPaiTDP@reddit

so u saying tht "everyone" will get a scholarship?

[-]

Appropriate-Test-48@reddit

no! i’m saying anyone who decided to train at MY airport would spend 7k. that’s what i’m trying to say. scholarship or not.

[-]

SIMPaiTDP@reddit

What u on breh

[-]

RollSomeCoal@reddit

Terre Haute indiana KHUF

[-]

Captain_Loss@reddit

Yeah, I got mine 1.5 years ago in 50 hours and it was like 10k to 12k.

[-]

B_O_A_H@reddit

Really? I’ve been checkride ready since 42 hours, just rescheduling due to weather and illness since. I’m at $9,200 spent on flight and instruction.

[-]

Grim3sy@reddit

UK here - did mine in 45 hrs and that amounted to £16,500 - all done in a 152 - prices at my local for membership has just increased too along with oil prices so unfortunately it’s not getting any cheaper

so definitely true that it’s quite a bit upwards of £12,000 today

[-]

RollSomeCoal@reddit

Got mine last year $7000 and 40.5hrs

[-]

Tresizzle@reddit

$6k is impossible.

Using estimates of prices which always vary,

40hrs x $190hr plane = $7,600 40hrs x $60 cfi = $2,400

[-]

Bravo-Buster@reddit

Looks like he's listed pounds, not dollars, so what we know in the US on costs aren't going to help him/her out. It's a whole different world across the pond.

[-]

User1234567127@reddit

Just got mine around a week ago and it was close to 15

[-]

Sacharon123@reddit

Take the high side of your estimates, add 20%. Expect to pay for your rating yourself and that you will not be able to pay back and credit debt from this for at least the first 5 years in the job. And have a fallback plan if it goes to shit and you do not find a job in the sector within the first 3-4 years.

[-]

x4457@reddit

Chat GPT is basically shitty autocorrect using incorrect information. Stop using it.

[-]

JJAsond@reddit

ChatGPT is an extremely good autofill, but is horrible with providing accurate information.

[-]

KITTYONFYRE@reddit

should ban posts using it. someone idly browsing might consider it good info

[-]

_Gizmo_@reddit

If you need ChatGPT to think for you to pull together easily found (and more accurate) information online and put it into a grid, imagine the brain power needed to be a competent pilot.

[-]

SpeedbirdTK1@reddit

OP is 100% going to be using chat GPT to help “study” for those ATPL exams and parrot off bad information their instructor is gonna have to work hard to knock out of their heads

[-]

Professional_Low_646@reddit

To answer your question: the plan is not reasonable at all. - do ATPL theory right after PPL, build some hours in the meantime. You can’t take the skilltest anyway if you don’t have your theory done, at least not for CPL, and you don’t want to be doubly stressed by skilltest and theory. - you don’t need 1,500hrs in Europe, building those by yourself is just insane. Find a job with your „frozen“ ATPL and you’ll get there, while being paid and ideally with your employer paying for the practical checkride (which depending on the type can cost 10s of 1000s on its own). - don’t even think about paying for your own type rating. It’s absolutely no use to you unless you also have a decent amount of hours on the type, and it drives down standards for everyone else in the industry. It’s my employers piece of equipment, they want me to operate it, they pay for it so I can do so safely and according to their standards. Period.

no disrespect, but this post is so low effort, I’m wondering whether you’re trolling.

[-]

zipzoa@reddit

I heard this multiple times to do the ATPL directly after PPL. This is recommended because the theory from PPL is still fresh or because of the pure time it takes?

[-]

Professional_Low_646@reddit

Yeah, you’re sort of more „in the loop“ regarding theory, so it’s not a bad idea - although ATPL is a lot deeper and deals with plenty of things that never come up during PPL, so I guess you could debate whether that’s all that beneficial.

No, the main reason is that once you’re done with PPL, the first thing to do is build time. Most flight schools I know require at least a bit of experience before letting you continue with NVFR and IR, so you’ll be „just flying“ for a while. Depending on weather, plane availability, and how much time you have, that could take a couple months. It’s simply more efficient to use that time studying than forgetting about theory altogether and getting back in the game once your IR, ME etc. come up.

[-]

zipzoa@reddit

Aaah I see where you are comming from it's actually to utilize the free time where you "just fly"

[-]

coti5@reddit

Cursed memes

[-]

Independent-Leg-1563@reddit

What is the plan for the hour building, will you get a job and work as a pilot at that time. Why then 80k training / typo for a small aircraft isn't that much. Or will you charter a plane and build it on your own, than 80k won't even get close to be enough

[-]

anonypanda@reddit

You can get an airline job on an fATPL without doing 1500 flight hours in the UK. In fact you can be right seat in an airbus with as little as 250-300h, in theory. The 1500h thing is an FAA requirement. In the UK you can unfreeze your ATPL at that point however.

[-]

Full_Wind_1966@reddit

Actually AFAIK the USA is the only place where you need 1500 to fly as SIC on an airliner. In Canada, for example, you could fly one at 250 with IATRA, but good luck getting hired below 1000

[-]

basilect@reddit

So I was reading the laws of a few Central American countries and they seem to all require 1500 hours for an ATP equivalent. Does that mean that in other countries you can fly SIC on an airline with a CPL equivalent?

(I have a friend who's planning on getting to 1500 for a US ATP by flying at a Central American airline first; dual national that says they have an "in" to the national airline... Not sure I believe that but I've been curious if his plan is even legal)

[-]

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Does that mean that in other countries you can fly SIC on an airline with a CPL equivalent?

Yes. US is pretty much an outlier in the world, requiring an ATPL for first officers, the vast majority of the world only requires a CPL.

[-]

fly_with_me1@reddit

It’s legal, flight time is flight time. And yea most countries allow you to fly SIC with a CPL. The main thing is if you’re willing to convert your licenses and whether or not you’re willing to relocate to that country for a few years

[-]

Ill-Lab-7307@reddit

Exactly. I’m in the UK, around 240 hours total flight time and I’m currently on my A320 type rating course.

[-]

Fit-Mammoth1359@reddit

Big orange?

[-]

M3psipax@reddit

Since your goal is ATPL, you want to do this as a job. The one thing I don't understand is why you don't just go straight ATPL with an employer? Why jump through all those hoops?

[-]

MrMerryface@reddit

You seem to be mixing up some bits and pieces between. No worries, let’s straighten you out. The modular route to get a “frozen” ATPL in the UK and EASA-land will need you to do:

-PPL - Night rating (5h) - Hour building - ATPL theory - CPL - MEP - MEIR - MCC

Some have said here, the 12k is the minimum you’ll pay for the PPL. Other costs look reasonable. skip the time building for FAA. If you want to move to the States get that time working here first, then look at options to move there after you convert your ATPL into an FAA ATP. Get an FI instead, much cheaper and will get you more valuable experience. If you can get that time off work, I’d recommend doing a full time course to do your CPL, MEP, and MEIR. It’ll be cheaper as you don’t have long periods without flying. They last around 2 months.

Don’t underestimate the time and cost of doing the ATPL theory. Add that into your calculations. It’s a massive commitment and you have to do it.

You DO NOT need to pay for more hour building than what will get you to your CPL MEIR requirements

Get an instructor rating, and if the economy hasn’t crashed again by the time you’re done, you’ll have job offers before you finish the course (I certainly did).

In the meantime you can also apply for companies that accept low hour pilots. Wizz, Ryanair, easyjet. If you want some “real” flying before joining the airlines, look at survey (avoid DEA if you can), RVL, and GlobeAir.

It’s an adventure, and you’ll love it.

[-]

vivalamaximillien@reddit

For the UK especially £6,000 is unrealistic, you'll be looking around the 9-16k mark.

[-]

TooLowPullUp@reddit

So much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Asking ChatGPT is not 'research' - if you want proper feedback you're going to have to actually put the effort in yourself instead of letting a chatbot tell you how to spend £150,000..

[-]

znavy264@reddit

Got my PPL in 110 hours. I thought I was dumb but aparently it's very common and more rare to do it in 40.

[-]

acesup1090@reddit

I didn't solo until 120. Wanted to bang my fkn head through a propeller.

[-]

umwhatshouldmynamebe@reddit

2-4 months for instrument rating which typically takes longer to get that PPL is crazy

[-]

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Most of that can be done in the sim, which isn't weather-dependant.

[-]

Similar-Good261@reddit

Still… the studiing alone will take more time than that. The whole list is nonsense. Planning with +/- 100k… seriously? Lol

[-]

badorianna@reddit

Try for the BA cadet program first if you have no experience

[-]

mtcwby@reddit

Can't comment on cost. Might be a little light on the private hours and have too many for instrument in my experience. Don't be afraid to get simulator time for the Instrument just to get flows and procedures nailed. You get better faster and for cheaper. Commercial seems heavy too on flight hours. I stopped there so can't offer an opinion on the others.

[-]

rjornd@reddit

7 years seems like an eternity unless you’re young and haven’t started a family yet. The fastest I’ve ever heard of someone going from zero to hero with an airline is 15 months (Trent Dyrsmid - Fly with Trent on YouTube).

[-]

thebau5acer007@reddit

It’s taken me 7 years to get to time building on a budget for all my rating so good luck

[-]

Severe_Elderberry769@reddit

Idk how much it costs in Europe, but it looks like you underestimated the cost of your mulit

[-]

cmmurf@reddit

Mine was 11 hours flight and maybe 5 hours for ground. But it is another checkride, and that cost needs to be included.

In my case I did back to back ASEL AMEL commercial - it seemed to be one checkride, two airplanes. I don't remember if there were actually separate applications and temporaries issued. It must've been AMEL first because that would have satisfied the complex requirement for commercial (at that time it was retractable gear), and it was ASEL add-on.

[-]

legitSTINKYPINKY@reddit

Yep. It’s gotta be 4-7 I think

[-]

clackerbag@reddit

The MEP course is only 6 hours of flight training then a skills test, so in theory it’s about £4,500. However, most people combine the MEP with the MEIR and don’t sit the MEP skills test until well into the MEIR course when they have much more multi engine time.

[-]

Fit-Mammoth1359@reddit

Yeah that cost might just about get you the MEIR skills test+ a practice lesson before

[-]

toraai117@reddit

Eh I’d say he is pretty spot on, but way more hours than required in the US.

If Europe really does require 10-20 hours then yeah that seems a little on the low side.

Can get a multi add on done in 3-5 hours pretty easily IMO

[-]

Complete-Economics-2@reddit

I don think so, because people who make decisions about our jobs are usually even more stupid than AI

[-]

Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit

Why would you pay to build time?

[-]

LigmaUpDog_@reddit

Because he has no idea what he’s talking about and used ChatGPT to come up with this “plan”

[-]

Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit

But I thought AI knew everything

[-]

TheRauk@reddit

Why are the charges in GBP but you are building to 1500hrs which is a US requirement?

Where are you trying to get a license at?

[-]

MostNinja2951@reddit

Why are the charges in GBP but you are building to 1500hrs which is a US requirement?

Because OP is one of those clowns who thinks chatGPT is a useful tool.

[-]

LigmaUpDog_@reddit

The issue with ChatGPT is if you aren’t at least slightly knowledgeable about the subject you won’t know when it gives you dumb bullshit like this

I have a buddy who will say dumb things and when I call him out he condescendingly says “bro it’s literally on chatgpt”

Sigh…

[-]

BrosenkranzKeef@reddit

I can’t tell you anything more until I know what region you live in.

I live in Ohio, USA. The weather during winter is terrible and training basically comes to a halt. It took me 10 months to get my private pilots license for about $6,000 in 2012.

Unless you’re doing this in some big school or university I think your timeline for training is too short. It can be done very quickly if you have perfect weather and dedication (Arizona and Florida are insanely popular for training for that reason) but in my experience it always takes you longer than you think it will.

[-]

Jazzlike_Warning_922@reddit

6k just for the PPL is a very low estimate.

I did my PPL training and during that prices went up quite a bit because of international events. All in all I paid about 14k which included just under 55 hours of training, equipment and examination fees (both written and final). I did train in the UK.

[-]

nascent_aviator@reddit

Find a flight school and look at their hourly rates.

40-50 hours is likely unrealistic for private. You shpuld budget for more and be happy if it happens to be less.

£40,000 for ATPL requirements makes no sense. That's around £30/hr. Realistically you're either gonna pay a *lot* more for this or you'll get a flying job and you'll make money building time.

Why do you care about FAA ATPL minimums if you're in the UK?

Very little of this makes sense, really. Don't rely on ChatGPT for stuff like this.

[-]

ltcterry@reddit

ATPL is not an FAA Land term. In ATPL countries "time building to 1,500" is neither a thing nor a requirement. That's not how it works.

This is not a plan. It's a sequential list of requirements and a huge range on the price.

Back to the drawing board when you know what your local requirements are and plan accordingly.

[-]

mkosmo@reddit

ChatGPT ain't doing you any favors. Go get up to date pricing information and typical progressionn rates.

[-]

CaptMcMooney@reddit

most except for the ppl time, that varies alot. once you have the ppl the rest just kinda fall in line.

[-]

rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I did some research on what’s needed to be a pilot with a frozen ATPL and me results are as shown below

As you can see ChatGPT said that it will cost an average of £77,500 but let’s round it up to £90,000.

I also took an average timeframe to complete the trainings and got 7 years and 6 months.

I also calculated how much I can save ( the lowest) in those 7 years and 6 months and got a result of £90,000.

Now, for those who know more than me and would like to give the advice for a beginner, how reasonable do you think my plan is ?

Feel free to tell me anything else that I may have missed.

Thanks in advance

Please downvote this comment until it collapses.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.

[-]

Sea-Objective-4954@reddit

2-6 months for PPL is only reasonable if weather is great where you live. Student solos can take a looonnggg time with low low weather mins for student solos

[-]

PrimaryFree8574@reddit

PPL will take you longer and you've not budgeted enough for multi, I'd double it. I'd say 60,000 USD to get to CFI if you are on top of it and go part 61

[-]

Flubberducky5@reddit

The multi rating (at least here in the US) is WAY less time and a lot more money. You can usually expect to pay around $5-8k and you can get it done in less than 10 hours easily in the span of about 3 days.

[-]

mittsh@reddit

What multi engine piston costs $800/h to fly (in the US)? I see DA42 NG for rent in Northern Europe/Scandinavia, for 700€/h and it’s absolutely outrageous compared to the rest of Europe. And GA prices in the US are usually way less. I’m genuinely curious..

[-]

Flubberducky5@reddit

Depends if you’re flying a shitbox or a glass da42 lol. You can expect around 5-550/hr for a da42 in my experience, another 600-1000 for the dpe, 80 or so for the cfi per hour and then you get to spend more on food and hotel if you had to go out of state like i did since its almost impossible to find multi rating training with dpe availability!

[-]

CUNT_PUNCHER_9000@reddit

That $5-8k number is likely including things like the DPE, CFI, written test, and other costs. The wet rental itself is probably more in the $3-500/hr range.

[-]

Loko5979@reddit

Multi doesn’t take that long, atleast in the US, I started on a Monday and took my ME on a Saturday that same week with 4 hours. Your idea of price may be Alittle low on it too

[-]

tominski43@reddit

Underestimated your PPL costs, finished mine late last year and I was £17k for hire, books, headset, landing fees etc.

Im only on hour building but this is not the way you do it in the UK. The way most do it is to follow Integrated course schedules. ACS describes it well on their page (https://acsflighttraining.co.uk/training/fast-track-atpl).

Also you said 10 days ago the average cost of PPL was 15k now your saying its max 12k?? Dont use chatGPT for research at all nevermind for something costing almost 200k

[-]

ThePilotWhoCantFly@reddit

Are you based in the UK or USA?

[-]

Powerful_Location323@reddit

Become a CFI, and build time while getting paid. You're also be a more well-rounded pilot than non-CFIs.

[-]

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

OP is in the UK, no need to become a flight instructor.

[-]

V2_Rotate@reddit

I would say double your estimate to be on the conservative but realistic side.

[-]

Connortbh@reddit

Those costs are way too low. Aircraft rental in the UK is decidedly more expensive than the US. Expect ~60 hours for your private. Getting my private in a similar timeframe would’ve equated to about $16.5K in the US in a 172.

A brief search showed even a 152 starts around £170/hr (depending on your area) and that’s not including an instructor. Keep in mind, these costs also don’t include a headset, iPad, study materials, exam fees, etc. You might also choose to invest in a flight sim setup at home. That really helped me for instrument training in particular.

Multi is probably off by a factor of at least 2.

[-]

dylan_hawley@reddit

Make a plan in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first

[-]

xhiluks@reddit

I would count 18 months for ATPL, trust me they are not easy

[-]

MaleficentGarbage23@reddit

Are you aiming to be a pilot in the UK or the US? I ask because the 1,500 hour requirement is a US thing in terms of getting in the door of an airline, but would be the point you’d unfreeze your ATPL in the UK. You can get an airline job with 200 hours and a frozen ATPL in the UK.

Some of those timings and costs are wild - are you doing this full time or part time whilst you work on the side? This will make a huge difference.

I’m nearing the end of the UK training route, feel free to drop me a message if you have any questions.

[-]

Dirty_Power@reddit

The only UK flight school i see prices advertised for is show 270/hr.

Your probably 60 hours for a ppl, so like 16k

40 for IR , so 11k

another 25 dual & 75 solo (guessing 200/hr solo) for CPL. so 21k

probably 400/hr for MER @ 10 hrs, so 4k

and then a flight instructor rating to build time to 1500hrs, probably another 15k

so the better part of 60k, plus incidentals, exam fees, medicals etc.

[-]

yBlanksy@reddit

He’s British I think

[-]

Dirty_Power@reddit

“The only UK flight schools…” Notice how there’s not a dollar sign anywhere? I’m pretty sure Great Britain is part of the United Kingdom

[-]

yBlanksy@reddit

You don’t need 1500 hours here

[-]

Rizzlestix@reddit

I'm a big AI proponent, but it's not taking a lot into consideration.

Is this possible? Sure, but you're doing flight training full-time and that's assuming you don't struggle on anything academically (for the written or oral portion of the exams), or practically meaning actually maneuvering the aircraft.

If you don't want to kill yourself and enjoy flying by the end, I'd double or triple those estimates.

Also AI data, unless gathered using the new models that can perform web searches, that are used in responses are usually a year or two old, and with crazy inflation and the geopolitical situation, prices fluctuate.

Tl;dr; - too aggressive of a plan

[-]

1000togo@reddit

Why are your prices in pounds but you are going the 1500hr FAA route?

Back when I did it, ground-school was after PPL. I did hour building next and concurrently with a ME CPL (out in the States). Back in the UK for a ME-IR after that. I think the reasoning was it was slightly cheaper that way round. This was JAA though and not FAA.

[-]

geastthebeast@reddit

I'd say a better order would be:

PPL Hour build (and enjoy GA and flying, explore the UK) ATPL exams (no point doing the cpl exams and then doing the atpl ones later) CPL MEIR MCC

Seems like you could save yourself some time and money doing it this way, and only having to do one round of exams

[-]

dendronee@reddit

Law of Recency states whats learned on Monday will be forgotten by next Monday. I flew with a fellow that went from zero to PPL in 2 weeks. I have also read an article where a person set out to do it in 30 days and did.

[-]

SoCalZoobie@reddit

For what it’s worth, take a careful look at the IFR and CPL cross-county and night requirements. If you plan it right, you can slowly knock off some of the CPL requirements (e.g., night landings) concurrently while doing your IFR training.

[-]

WakeMeForSourPatch@reddit

I only have my PPL but it took over 60 hours and ~$10k. It’s not even about how good of a pilot you are. There are plenty of things beyond your control (weather, paperwork hold ups) that push hours way beyond the minimums required.

[-]

WhereAreMyChips@reddit

Delusional, does this answer your question?

[-]

Maclunkey4U@reddit

Not sure what kind of weather or aircraft availabilty you'll have, but the low end of your estimates seems very, very optimistic.

If would shift those estimates by a good margin. Add 2 months and 10-15 flight hours to each for PPL and IR.

Thats been my experience anyway, but thats teaching US students who are usually full-time college students or working full-time while doing their flight training (part 61 - I assume if you were in a similar program to 141 they would have their own schedule).

Multi can be done pretty quick, but your cost estimate looks low.

The rest I wouldnt worry about planning until you get your commercial certificate, possibly your CFI, and get some time under your belt, but in general I think your time estimates skew on the optimistic to unreasonable side.

[-]

Pleasant_Security235@reddit

You could flight instruct or find some sort of low hour flying job once you get your CPL. You’ve already paid so much money to earn the right to make money flying, enjoy getting paid for it. Companies will also appreciate seeing you worked some sort of pilot job prior when you apply for them.

Also, totally would recommend doing a discovery flight if you haven’t already. Don’t want to go through completing your written and 2 weeks of ground only to find you’re deathly afraid of heights, or worse, color blind lol.

[-]

domo118@reddit

I’m assuming UK based on the currency but depending on the type of PPL as in a full time or x amount of hours a week. Weather is sometimes the battle against PPL training as I found out. Took me 9 months and I tried to get at least an hour a week but a few of those lessons were cancelled due to weather. Whenever my lesson was weathered, ground school is the next best option to get the theory done!