I understand gay relationship was censored in the 90s..... But ISTG, XENA AND GABRIELLE ONLY TOUCHED MOUTH IN THE SIX LONG SEASON OF THE SHOW. XENA HAD BETTER SCENE WITH LAO MA, AND GABBY MADE OUT WITH APHRODITE!!! BUT STILL NO KISS BETWEEN OUR COUPLE!! GAHHHHHHHHH
Posted by Latte-Catte@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 61 comments
Rockna32@reddit
If this was remade today they would really lean into the relationship but it was way less common in the 80s and 90s
Dat_V@reddit
Yes. One interesting dynamic of the show. It's supposedly about Xena. Bu the tool for expressing things about Xena, is Gabrielle. So when the show STARTS being gay - the show is about Xena being gay with Gabrielle.
But once the show cements itself as a gay show... it looks like the show is FORBIDDEN to show Xena and Gabrielle be gay together. They can do that separately, with other people. But not with each other. With other people, they can kiss on the mouth. With each other, it's "I love you, you are my best friend!" ridiculous setup.
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
I agree with you. It's just that even when Rob said that Xena and Gabi couldn't appear together in the opening of the series, they had to appear separately, because it would appear as a "gay program". Apart from the part that if you look carefully, there are episodes in which Gabrielle appears in the opening, when they mention "Passion", which would be another line between the lines
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Xena and Miss Artiphys shared one big fat kiss, but all Gabrielle gets from Xena was a few pecks š®āšØ
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
Yes, exactly. Gabi also got a kiss from Aphrodite. Oh, they come with Xena and Gabi stamps š®āšØ
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
I remember at least twice they kissed. Once was when Gabrielle was in the flames, and once when gab gave her water at the end of the series. I think there were more, but I canāt remember for sure. I know they strongly hinted at it when Xena died and she was in Autolocys ā the last moment the scene switched. So it was there and obvious and clear.
Alsoā¦ wait, when gab got married, Xena kissed her before she left with Perdicus, I think. Iām not sure, but I think I remember that. Unless I am confused and wrong.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
I know, but those kisses were chaste. Everytime Xena and Gabrielle kiss other characters they full-on made out. While the series gave Xena and Gabrielle nothing but pecks. Xena shared better kiss with Lao Ma then she ever did with Gabby.
Then again, it might as well be implied there were more kisses shared off-screen.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
Oh! I misread it. I thought you meant there was only one time their lips touched in 6 seasons. I apologize.
And yes, their kisses were very āchasteā (great choice in wording) - but because they were supposed to express so much more than passion, in my Opinion. The others showed passion. This was supposed to show love.
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
I think the writers left it only in little seals for Xena and Gabi, because they didn't want to sexualize the couple, they wanted to bring it to something deeper, instead of just a hotter scene. They also didn't want to give away all the cards about their relationship and drag the public until the end of the series to see if there was any expectation that there would actually be a kiss.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
It was also a different time. If they showed too much, the show would have been over
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
That's my anger, Xena really kissing Lao Man. Aphrodite kissing Gabi. Xena is kissed by that woman at the beauty contest. But, the kiss between Gabi and Xena is just kisses. That's how hateful
onetwothree1234569@reddit
They kissed on the lips when: Gabrielle married Perdicus Xena died and was in Autolycus body Gabrielle was asleep in the thorns Xena passed water to her
Agent8699@reddit
I think the kiss in Return of Callisto was half lips / half cheek.
And of the others, only The Quest was a true ākissā between Xena and Gabrielle, although itās open to interpretation just how much Autolycus influenced the kiss.
Gabrielle was asleep and Xena was an amnesiac in the Norse Trilogy.
And in FIN, Xena was unconscious and Gabrielle was ātransferring waterā.
If we can count those non-kisses, then we should also count all of the other non-kisses, like when they had to do CPR on one another, when they were in the Harry and Mattie bodies, etc.Ā
There was meant to be additional kisses in season 6:
in When Fates Collide between Empress Xena and Playwright Gabrielle - thereās some debate as to why this was removed, but seems to be because Rob Tapert wanted to keep the ākissā for the series finale; and
in the unmade musical episode Last Chance where Xena and Gabrielle, as themselves and in their own bodies, would kiss at the end in an unquestionably romantic manner to show true āloveā and break some curse on Aphroditeās son (from memory). I think there were also kisses between Xena and Sappho (played by ROC) and Gabrielle and Sapphoās lover (played by Lawless).
Wise_Airport5655@reddit
I believe that in that episode of the musical about Solan, a kiss would happen. When Xena passes through the rain that is no longer acidic, holding Gabi's hand. Then, the camera turns, when Gabi pulls Xena and the camera focuses closely on them. This scene had everything to make a movie kiss
Dat_V@reddit
Also one more planned but unfulfilled kiss in "Destiny" - Gabrielle was obviously meant to deliver ambrosia mouth-to-mouth, returning the kiss. But the show chickened out.
bbofpotidaea@reddit
Hold on Iām so upset to hear about the unaired kiss from when fates collide š
Agent8699@reddit
Unfilmed kiss. It would have been another ānot really our Xena and Gabrielle kissā.Ā
Jammed-Glock@reddit
Couple? Youāre mistaken. Xena and Gabrielle were just best friends.
jdpm1991@reddit
more like sisters.
Dat_V@reddit
That. Or one could call them mother and daughter too. Xena had obviously adopted and raised Gabrielle!
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Was that sarcasm?
Jammed-Glock@reddit
Absolutely š¤
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Gay relationships weren't censored in the 90's. They were just less frequent but they have been around in TV shows since the 70's to varying degrees.
TheEntreprenerd@reddit
It was heavily censored due to studios, producers, and especially the sponsors. Rob Tapert, Lucy Lawless, and Steven L. Sears even flew to the US to defend their creative choice to let Xena and Gabrielle kiss. The sponsors wouldn't have it, so they decided to convince them to write it in as CPR. That was something the sponsors could agree on, but they threatened the team to pull out if it came even remotely close to lesbianism. Universal was the overseeing studio and holds the rights to Xena, but all in all, as a filmmaker, you are dependent on the sponsors and have to abide by their law.
Yes, there were some incidents where there was gay representation on tv and film, it dates back to movies and filmmaking itself. But, (in the West and Hollywood) it was scarce and never a love interest story of the lead/main character. It was more common in Europe to have different forms of love interests, even in lead/main characters. Here in the Netherlands, we had some people on tv in the fifties who were openly and known gay. In the nineties, we even had a love interest story between a brother and sister. Maybe a bit too progressive, but still, it was more done in Europe than in the US.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
It was censored on television. That's why they tip toed around Xena and Gabby's relationship.
BlandDodomeat@reddit
Lol thought that was Cloud and Aerith.
SnooCapers819@reddit
Sorry but could try talking like an actual adult....
cestlavie_69@reddit
Did Xena kiss Lao Ma? Are you referring to the breath transfer when Xena was underwater in Lao Maās bath?
The ladies were held back from full on lip-locking. Gabs didnāt kiss any other women that I recall. And Xena kissed characters who were just passing through. Maybe that was the difference, the studio wanted the two leads to maintain this air of availability, even though we all knew the truth.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Recall The God You Know episode, where Aphrodite kissed Gabrielle. So by season 6 I thought they were going to go all out, but even after that the ladies aren't allow to lock lips more often?
I mean, if Lao Ma's breath transfer doesn't count, then neither does the water transfer in FIN...
cestlavie_69@reddit
Oh, duh. Forgot about that. TBF, Dite goes in for a kiss and their lips barely brush before Gabs is pulling back, yes? Iāll have to watch that clip again.
hermit198388@reddit
Agree with you, only would challenge that the water transfer is not depicted as at the very least kiss-like, it's so tender, there's so much power and love in it. I'll definitely take it...
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Did you actually SEE any water passing from Gabrielle's mouth to Xena's? I didn't. Lucy Lawless herself referenced it as a kiss in the Chakram Newsletter #17 (https://www.whenheartscollide.net/magazines-and-newsletters/you-snap-right-back) in an interview saying Rob wanted a kiss. So finally, it would seem he thumbed his nose at the producers in the last episode of the series! Of course the problem was, as always, it was very one-sided and not a proper lip lock by both women..........
Agent8699@reddit
From memory, we see some stray drops of water escape from Gabrielleās bottom lip?
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Please don't make me watch it again to see that............
Agent8699@reddit
Donāt rewatch it for that - rewatch it for the nose nuzzle! : )
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Isn't that how the Inuit people (Eskimos) kiss, by rubbing noses? Or is that just another urban myth.
Agent8699@reddit
https://www.sapiens.org/culture/is-romantic-kissing-a-human-universal/
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Interesting article. Thanks for that. So the Inuit DO kiss. What's with the rubbing of noses then?
Agent8699@reddit
How else are they going to scratch each otherās noses when their hands are otherwise ā¦ busy?Ā
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Excellent point. Should keep that in mind.........
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Me too. That episode was crazy.
berry_breeze@reddit
thereās an interview with rob tapert somewhere where he says the network had them get love interests when it got too romantic between xena n gabrielle n the producers didnāt want a over arching romance so we got a new guy every time š
godsibi@reddit
I mean... It took Mulder and Scully 9 seasons to kiss. They probably avoided having the protagonists kiss to keep the buzz alive and have viewers come back next week. These pairs were not meant to be the focus of their shows (both in The X files and Xena). Sci fi mystery and action fantasy were the premises respectively. Once they realised that viewers were rooting for the two protagonists to get together, they used this to tease them and build the hype.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Pretty sure originally Mulder and Scully was supposed to stay platonic until the showrunner changed their mind and made them into a couple. That was never the intention or the plans, but anything can change 9 seasons into a show.
But Xena and Gabrielle was planned from the getgo, Tapert always wanted Xena to be this groundbreaking, first female-leads, and female-female lead, tv. I guess through all those season I wanted indiction of kiss less of a peck than we were given. But that's okay, we as audience are all aware.
Agent8699@reddit
Xena and Gabrielle were not planned to be a romantic couple from the start.
Although everyone was aware of and, in the instance of the studio, fearful of, the āLaverne and Shirleyā effect where any show with two female leads gives rise to viewers who see them as a couple, it wasnāt the intention for them to be a couple.
But, once they saw how the adult fans, mainly lesbians, responded to the show, they decided to lean into it and embrace that interpretation by littering the series with subtext.
All the writers had different views on the relationship with some favouring Xena and Gabrielle while others favoured Xena and Ares or Gabrielle and Joxer. And they still had to make the studio and advertisers happy. So, it resulted in quite the mixed bag.
Once they leaned into it, they liked that direction and eventually settled into that being the reality behind the scenes (barring the major bump that was season 5, pun intended), although they couldnāt make it absolutely explicit on screen.Ā
godsibi@reddit
I thought Gabrielle was initially supposed to be for Xena what Iolaus was for Hercules. A buddy to have dialogue with the protagonist and help her express her inner thoughts and feelings during the show. It's still a female-female lead. Just not one with a lesbian romance. Probably that's also why Gabrielle had a new boyfriend every other episode in season 1. You can see how she changes from a very comical and goofy character in season 1 into a layered warrior and Xena's partner. I believe it was around season 2 that they started throwing in the teasers for the romance. The fandom's reaction totally influenced the trajectory of their relationship! And that was for the better honestly, since it made the characters THAT more progressive!
Voyager5555@reddit
Ok, no need to yell about it.
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
It was a thought out loud moment!
Holiday-Ride-5489@reddit
Thought this was cloud kissing tifa for a mo
Shadow_Hound_117@reddit
Maybe not a full kiss, but you only see where one hand is at so who knows what else is going on.... At least that's a potential way to see it
ComputerSong@reddit
The show wasnāt about sex.
meroboh@reddit
The show was about love and doing better. Kissing is an expression of love. Would you make this same comment about heterosexual content?
ComputerSong@reddit
The show really wasnāt about love and doing better either. The characters are complicated.
onetwothree1234569@reddit
Love is litterally like the whole point of the show. Its so central to what Xena is...
Owl_Queen101@reddit
Relax yāall the OP answered her own question. It was the 90s and their relationship was the biggest question of the show at the time. Season 6 was the last one and the team threw caution to the wind and put everything in it including their relationship
Latte-Catte@reddit (OP)
Kissing isn't sex though.
Grayx_2887@reddit
How should I react to this?!? Oh yeah....
https://youtu.be/Y8EMndSFFMk?si=-SNvQ15J8WDJqIkL
SnooSuggestions9830@reddit
There must be a Xena/Gabrielle Mandela effect because I remember several.
I know there definitely were some but they were circumstantial rather than overtly romantic, but I don't remember the circumstances.
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
"how will you convince her that you are inside me?" "trust me" *long kiss*
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Being gay in that era was still taboo and frowned upon, unlike today, 30 years later, when lesbians on tv are somewhat popular and get to have proper kisses.....even if they are killed off later or whatever. The only "proper" kiss, where Xena expressed her emotions that way, was in The Quest but even that was in a sort of dreamscape and was implied and then 'carried out' by Autolycus with Gabrielle. The next kiss was when she brought Gabrielle back in the Norse Trilogy, but it was also pretty chaste and one-sided. There were a number of other chaste kisses in or near the lips throughout the series which others have alluded to (Gabrielle's marriage, Xena's death) and two instances of transference of *something* into Xena's mouth, both of which looked pretty much like kisses but, of course, weren't really :-) being air by Lao Ma and life-giving water by Gabrielle to Xena in FIN. And don't forget the two instances of mouth-to-mouth resuscitation - when Gabrielle dies in Is There a Doctor in the House, and in Coming Home when Xena was trapped under ice. This is how it had to be in that era.
JHCL56@reddit
sigh UST