What are the signs you should RUN and not accept a job offer?
Posted by skz-@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 255 comments
Just recently had an interview and started to wonder,
- The company is owned by venture capital.
- They just merged with another company
- Currently, they have a complete chaos w this merge, previous IT guy left, lol. I didn’t have the balls to ask why.
My gut says to run, but the pay is good, and I’m not afraid of a challenge. I’ve been working at an MSP for 5 years and handled plenty of migrations. I’m just worried they won’t listen to me when they should, or worse, they’ll sell the company soon, and I’ll end up without a job.
What’s your 2 cents?
223454@reddit
For me it's drug testing. I don't have any reason to avoid the test, but the type of place that needs to do that probably isn't for me.
zeus204013@reddit
Maybe some employers require a test because company/management don't like drug users, and they can enforce that. Remember that maybe locally marijuana is legal, but not at national level. Remember that in almost all countries you can have some freedom in some aspects, in your house, in public places. But when you want to work, is a private site. His company, his requisites...
teezyyintime@reddit
i’m super curious about this mindset. why do you feel a drug test is a red flag for a job?
zeus204013@reddit
This is seen likeva red flag, but employer see drugs like cause of future sickness of his employers, or people being less productive because cognitive impairment (like some people can have a not healthy lifestyle and affect the company...)
223454@reddit
It tells me a little about the possible culture there. If they have a need to drug test, or they don't have a need but do anyway, I don't think I'll fit in.
Healthy-Poetry6415@reddit
Because he likes drugs and doesnt believe what he does on his personal time is for his employer to determine.
Stay outta my bedroom = stay outta my bong rips
StormlitRadiance@reddit
I don't even do drugs; I just don't want to pee in a cup while someone watches.
codewario@reddit
It's not the military or law enforcement; no one is going to watch you pee in a cup. They send you to a bathroom, you pee in a cup, seal it, put it in a door. Someone grabs it from the other side and begins preliminary testing.
Any time I've had to take a urine test for any reason, this has been the procedure wherever the test is performed at.
gordonv@reddit
I wish they could forward urine tests to my doctors. Do keytone tests and stuff. Might as well get a benefit for me. They're already running tests.
Healthy-Poetry6415@reddit
I never had anyone watch me.
Which makes using synthetic urine easy.
Because like i said. What happens in my walls outside of their paid for my labor hours is not their concern
XxRaNKoRxX@reddit
Depends on local laws/regs. I am in a state that has legalized marijuana. I very much prefer Marijuana to Alcohol. I make sure to let hiring managers know ahead of the drug test that it will come back positive for marijuana but neg for everything else. I also explain that I do not abuse it and its never been an issue.
JBD_IT@reddit
Unless you're operating heavy machinery or have to drive (a terminal keyboard in a colo isn't heavy machinery) a drug test is pretty useless.
Key-Calligrapher-209@reddit
Misplaced priorities. Stuck in old ways of thinking. Large bureaucracies in general going by the manual from 1954 without questioning any of it.
ausername111111@reddit
I mean, I agree with you, but it's not hard to get clean. You also only need to be clean enough to pass the test. A lot of companies don't do this because they care, they do it for insurance reasons.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
This depends, weed can take forever to get out of your system if you are a daily user. With it being legal in the US now, lots of people have become daily users.
I was a daily user for about 5 years, then stopped smoking for about 10 months and applied to job that drug tested and still came back positive. This isn’t fear mongering, just the truth. In no world will you be clean in a month if you are a long time user of weed.
ausername111111@reddit
You don't need to be clean you just need to not fail the test. Pretty much every test a friend of mine has taken in the past ten years they've been dirty but passed. You just need about two weeks lead time, go to a head shop and buy the detox kit, and get another one for the day of. You drink the drink and pills for those ten days or so, then on the day of you drink the drink. It masks the THC in your system and you're clean for about six or so hours, just long enough to pass the test.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
I tried one of these detox drinks on the second attempt, not discounting your story, just doesn’t work for everyone all the time
ausername111111@reddit
Weird, yeah, it always worked for me. I even tested myself before I went in and then after so I would have piece of mind, and both were clear. I smoked basically every day before the gym, though I wasn't too high body fat, so that could help.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
I might have screwed it up, but didn’t work for me
ausername111111@reddit
There's also a huge variety. I went to a well funded head shop and picked the brain of the person that worked there. I got something to cleanse me as much as possible and something to take the day of. I think I had about ten or so days. It was over 100 dollars for both, probably around 150.
223454@reddit
I'm not sure if you meant me, but my comment was clear that I don't avoid them because I use drugs. Some places also do random testing, so just passing it once isn't always enough. But I also want the ability to use any drug I want in the future.
ausername111111@reddit
I've never heard of any place doing random testing other than the military. There are testing if you work somewhere and there's an accident, but not really much else. I suppose there might be testing like that for truckers or some job where you're driving professionally, though I did that job for about 8 years and was never tested.
But I hear you, just saying that basically no where tests you more than that initial time.
No one cares what you're doing because they honestly don't care. On top of that they don't want to have to pay for testing, and they don't want to terminate someone who's doing their job. Turnover is expensive for companies.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
Australian mining industry and any industry connected to it perform routine tests.
ausername111111@reddit
Yeah, for jobs like that, sure. Jobs where you're operating dangerous heavy equipment daily. But that's really a niche profession.
It's kind of like saying "you can work basically anywhere without having to worry about the company wanting to know your life story", and then saying "well, if you work in government and have a top secret security clearance you do", haha.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
Well, depending on where you live too, in Western Australia it is pretty difficult to not find a job connected to the mining industry, and it’s not just about operating heavy equipment either. If you get a sys admin job in the main office which would be 1000’s of km away you still get tested, even though your in an office block and the heaviest piece of machinery you encounter are the buses when you cross the street. Contracting companies are subjected to the testing too.
ausername111111@reddit
Ah, I'm really referring to jobs in the US. I can't speak to what it's like in Australia. I've never had any interest in living there, and after they lost their minds during Covid I'll probably never even visit.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
I avoid them because I have a shy bladder and take ages to pee in front of people. I would rather they take blood but this is seen as invasive, but standing there watching me pee isn’t invasive somehow…
a60v@reddit
I don't use drugs, but I still wouldn't want to work at a place that does drug testing. (Exceptions: positions that involve driving or operating heavy machinery or where life safety is otherwise an issue.) It's invasive, and also indicates that they expect that their employees might be using drugs in an irresponsible way (a situation that I would prefer to avoid).
ausername111111@reddit
I mean, it doesn't really mean that. Most of the companies do it for insurance discount reasons. I know where I work I don't do anything involved in driving or anything like that, that said they do a background check every year because I work on secured systems.
In the US it's probably the exception that doesn't require a drug test, not the rule, that said, unless you are a contractor. But for a full time permanent employee, I think I've always been tested.
Metalfreak82@reddit
Is that a thing in the US? I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the EU to perform mandatory drug testing.
a60v@reddit
It is done in the US, but is not common for office jobs. It is done regularly for military, law-enforcement, and jobs that involve life safety (e.g. airline pilots, truck drivers, etc.).
Sovey_@reddit
Haha in some industries here in Canada, if a guy backs a truck into a fence, everybody who witnessed it goes for a piss test.
223454@reddit
Yes. Years ago it was much more common than it is now. Before I got into IT most jobs I got required it. Here's the thing though, most harder drugs are out of your system in a matter of days, but low level drugs like weed can stay for weeks or months. So those (urine) tests basically just told the employer if you were 1) a weed user, or 2) so addicted to hard drugs that you couldn't get clean for a few weeks. I think there was a fear that if you're a drug user you might try to steal equipment to sell for drug money.
codewario@reddit
Yes, you can be denied employment for failing a drug test. It's definitely a thing here.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
I get that to a certain extent.
Like if it's for a position where you're driving or operating heavy machinery I can understand it, Piss testing everyone regardless of performance or specific role implies a lack of trust.
mkosmo@reddit
Or it simply indicates contractual or insurance obligations.
kona420@reddit
Exactly, it's outdated but you do a slip and fall in the bathroom at work because the janitor left soap on the tile, you can't piss clean it's a headache for everyone.
Meanwhile captain cocaine ran over his team-mate in the parking lot but managed to get a clean whizz out so he's keeping his job. It's not fair but it's slowly changing.
MNmetalhead@reddit
“Fast paced work environment”
“Able to work well under pressure”
“Unlimited PTO”
“Like a family”
“Ninja” or “Rockstar” or other such bullshit
Behavioral or IQ tests
“Some evenings and weekends” or “Must be willing to work a flexible work schedule”
The list goes on.
zeus204013@reddit
Very common in my city...
SomeCar@reddit
These. I applied for a position at Canonical, spoke with the recruiter and he felt that I was a good match. Sent my resume over to the hiring manager and he wanted to setup some time with me... but first I had to answer "some questions." They sent over a 2 page PDF file asking questions like "what was your greatest achievement in high school" and "what clubs were you a part of in HS", and I am like, my guy I have been in this field for over 25 years, WTF are you expecting me to remember here. Oh, they gave me 2 weeks to finish the questions that were on this 2 page PDF... insane.
kg7qin@reddit
The next phase of that is you take an online psychometric test from Thomas International. It measures reasoning, perceptual speed, number speed & accuracy, word meaning, and spatial visualization. The number speed and accuracy is essentially being thrown math problems and having to answer them very quickly. (I dug up the email about it).
About a day after the test I was told I wasn't selected for the next phase. I asked for a copy of the test and they sent it to me. I scored well in all but the lightning math round.
They thanked me for applying and said they have to have pretty tough filters in place to filter candidates out. I was also told the job I applied for had thousands of people apply for it.
This was for a Linux Support Engineer role.
Doso777@reddit
I call bullshit.
SomeCar@reddit
WTF, you are serious? I didn't even bother answering the questions and just ghosted their recruiter .
kg7qin@reddit
I was curious.
SquiffSquiff@reddit
Canonical is notorious for their recruitment process
Sgt-Tau@reddit
My last job demanded a copy of my high-school diploma from 30 some odd years ago. I had to do some deep searching in storage to find it.
GloveLove21@reddit
This is insane lol.
AspiringTechGuru@reddit
Curious as to why "Unlimited PTO" is a red flag. I don't have unlimited pto but some friends have great experiences
MNmetalhead@reddit
Studies have shown that people with “unlimited” PTO actually take less PTO overall. Also, if you leave, there’s no banked PTO employers usually pay out.
EveningNo8643@reddit
I’ve worked for companies with unlimited PTO and I took advantage of it HEAVILY. I personally never had issues. Having said that it will come heavily down to the manager and overall culture of the company
grutanga@reddit
Not arguing your point, but to give the other side of it, I and many of my friends make GREAT use of unlimited PTO. It comes down to the culture.
MNmetalhead@reddit
Absolutely… it always comes down to culture. But it’s a power move by companies to give less to their employees on the overall.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not anti-business. I’m all for a business making money. I just believe there are ways of doing it without stripping down or removing things for their employees under the guise of it being a benefit.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
The main reason is because it is easy to abuse too, let’s say that you have a colleague that abuses it. And takes 6 months off every year, suddenly you are doing all their work too. You can’t complain because “hey, it’s unlimited time off, you can’t complain do it too” Suddenly everyone starts doing it and the company can’t afford to pay people…
Now this never happens in reality because no one wants to do that to their colleagues and be THAT asshole, so no one takes time off, cos now the view “people that take time off are assholes” perpetuates.
If you lucked out and found a company and colleagues that don’t abuse it from either side, then you have found the Goldilocks of companies and seriously think twice about taking another opportunity.
Sirbo311@reddit
Same! I replied above, but this new gig has unlimited and the company is very supportive of us taking it. We actually got on a few co-workers cases about not taking ENOUGH vacation, and showing signs of getting burnt out.
I told my VP in my interview that I'm a professional vacation taker, and she was cool with that.
RustQuill@reddit
Anecdotally, I knew some folks whose companies had "unlimited PTO" but had a company culture that expected you to not actually _take_ that PTO.
743389@reddit
We'll just start tagging those as neurodivergent-friendly, it'll be brilliant
MNmetalhead@reddit
Yup. Either through guilt trips or being stingy with approvals.
luftwaffejones@reddit
PTO payout highly variable based on your state if there are no laws mandating it. Some companies will have it in their policy, but lets be real most won't.
MNmetalhead@reddit
Right. Thats why I said “usually”, because it was something that was usually (not always) done.
WilfredGrundlesnatch@reddit
Unlimited PTO is an accounting trick. If you have a definite amount of PTO given to people, the company has to have money on hand to pay in case they have to pay them out for someone who quits/is laid off. Making it unlimited means they don't have to do that.
It's a sign that both the company is cash-strapped and is willing to screw over employees.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
Pretty much this. It removes an obligation from their balance sheet. It doesn't always mean that they are cash strapped, but employers aren't eager to announce it because they are going to approve every crazy PTO request. There is a limit they just didn't tell you upfront what it is.
Kikz__Derp@reddit
It can depend on the company. With unlimited I would ask for the average amount per year taken by the manager’s direct reports.
6Bee@reddit
Unlimited PTO means no rollover / cashing out unused PTO
secret_configuration@reddit
Unlimited PTO is a scam. It benefits no one but the company itself as they no longer have to cash out your PTO when you leave.
kona420@reddit
Because it's such a crapshoot. At least with accrued PTO they usually have to pay you out on it so you get something even if you get screwed out of being able to take leave due to understaffing or bad culture.
Renoglodon@reddit
I have "unlimited pto" now. That's how it was advertised in interviews.
After starting, my CTO keeps clarifying that it's "RESPONSIBLE unlimited pto". (meaning that if you're new, you take 3 weeks, at 3 years you get 4 weeks...etc). This was NOT advertised in interviews.
However, while our department is okay with this. I see many get pto rejected for stupid reasons. Plus, with no balance, you can't argue you've earned it. It's all ephemeral.
Also, understand that unlimited pto is popular for the businesses. Did you know that when you have traditional pto balance that it's a "bill to pay" for the company. It's basically a debt and I think can have affect on net worth and checks/balances. If you leave a company and have 40 pto hours, they have to pay that to you. Unlimited pto gets rid of this, so it's truly a benefit for the company.
To be clear, not all companies with U-PTO abuse it, but some (possibly many) do.
codewario@reddit
It's going to depend on the company. My current employer has a great unlimited PTO program and we are encouraged to take vacations multiple times per year.
My last company also had "unlimited PTO" but it was rarely approved and management would grumble about it if you took a second vacation in a year.
The problem is that "unlimited PTO" is basically used sometimes to get out of paying accrued PTO hours in the event of departure or termination as well as make positions sound more attractive. Good employers will not exploit this, but shitty ones will. And you won't know what kind they are until you actually work there.
CyberFireball25@reddit
Multiple managers I had used 'guru'
Fuck off with that
MNmetalhead@reddit
I blame the trend starting with Six Sigma and their “belts” which then led to companies trying to jazz up their titles for jobs to seem hip and edgy.
Break2FixIT@reddit
Why did I start snapping my fingers when I read jazzy...
Darren_889@reddit
"Work hard play hard" = red flag
IndependenceMean8774@reddit
"We're like a family here."
Yeah, and so's the Mafia, but I'm not eager to join them.
10leej@reddit
Don't forget "We're a family company"
secret_configuration@reddit
Right, and the owner's nephew is their IT manager.
2FalseSteps@reddit
Been there, done that. Except the nephew was the only competent one of the bunch. The rest of the family was a shit-show.
MNmetalhead@reddit
I listed “Like a family” in my post.
Sirbo311@reddit
Where i work is unlimited PTO, and I make sure I use as much as I had at my previous gig where I had five weeks after 20 years. New place is very chill about it. I understand that if I leave/am let go I get nothing for accumulated PTO. The bonus and stock make up for that risk.
2FalseSteps@reddit
Find your balls and ask why the previous IT guy left.
If they give you a bullshit answer, that's an obvious red flag.
Google that company and manager's name, as well. Take any result with a grain of salt, but read between the lines and listen to your gut.
And always, always keep your options open. Always update your resume, just in case.
223454@reddit
"Talk to me about the last person to hold this job." "What successes and failures did they have?" Or something like that.
dagamore12@reddit
Another way of asking the same, and the one I have used, is something along these lines.
"Why is the position open, was it do to someone moving up in the company or moving away from the area?"
This allows them the chance to show that they promote from with in, or it gives them the chance to bad mouth the last person that left, how they answer is either going to make this a good place to work or it will be a big Red flag for me to keep searching.
RustQuill@reddit
A company I worked repeatedly said "we always try to promote from within" during the interview and kept saying it as a mantra while I worked there. I worked part-time and they kept dangling a full-time position in front of me as a sort of "we'll promote you to full-time as soon one opens", but then when positions opened, they always went with an outside hire.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
You won't always get bad companies to out themselves, but you would be surprised how many will slip and let you know that they're toxic.
No_Pollution_1@reddit
Yup the real problem is 60 percent are mediocre slogs, 20 percent are great and 20 percent shitholes.
Kahless_2K@reddit
Did you see other people get promoted? It might just be that they didn't value you for whatever reason
RustQuill@reddit
Oh, I know the reason. Most of the department was made up of people from a specific community, of which I was not a member, and they always filled positions with other people from the community. The only time I saw someone promoted was when someone from my team, who was a member of that community, became full-time even though I had more general experience, a relevant degree which they claimed to require, more time in the position, and a better relationship with the end users.
It was very much a "who you know" environment. The only reason I was even hired was because I knew the guy before me, and no one else wanted to work the closing shift which ended at midnight.
IndependenceMean8774@reddit
Unfortunately, they can lie or spin a good yarn. Jobs aren't obligated to tell the truth.
TKInstinct@reddit
Damn that's good.
skz-@reddit (OP)
This is an excellent question. Definitely stealing it.
beardedhelpdeskman@reddit
Or the last FEW people who held the job and left.
STUNTPENlS@reddit
Do you seriously expect them to answer truthfully (e.g. "this place is such a clusterfuck, he bailed while he was still sane") ?
2FalseSteps@reddit
Absolutely not.
I would want to see what kind of bullshit reply they came up with. ESPECIALLY if they talked shit about their previous admin.
If they kept it professional and gave some kind of "That's an HR matter that I can't get into", that would be different, but I'd still be cautious.
The_Original_Miser@reddit
That's a red flag imho.
It either means they are mired in red tape/procedure, or something happened that they don't want to disclose. This could be a green flag like the predecessor stole, or a red flag like the place is an absolute dumpster fire.
TrueStoriesIpromise@reddit
"An HR matter I can't get into" could be that the previous admin committed suicide (employee of mine) or is in jail for hiring a hitman to kill his wife (former network admin at my company).
2FalseSteps@reddit
"He was a real go-getter. Always thinking outside of the box for innovative solutions, even if they were a bit unorthodox. Ultimately he decided to move to another location and was unable to work remotely."
Sgt-Tau@reddit
Double commenting on this. If I didn't suddenly have to retire early due to health issues, I was kinda looking forward to the various AI assisted writing tools to help translate to CorpSpeech. Heck, maybe it would have allowed me to learn to translate and write it better.
ITguydoingITthings@reddit
He was mission-minded, but ultimately failed in the execution stage.
Sgt-Tau@reddit
Most impressive. I've never been able to write or speak CorpSpeech well. It always felt like I was lying or being obfuscatory.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
>"He was a real go-getter. Always thinking outside of the box for innovative solutions, even if they were a bit unorthodox. Ultimately, he had some unresolved family-related obligations and was forced to move to another location where he was unable to work remotely."
Chef's kiss in corporate speak. Lol... That's about as good as you can polish that without completely lying.
PurpleCableNetworker@reddit
Found the lawyer.
goobernawt@reddit
Top fucking notch work right there.
You're clearly a go-getter with middle management potential written all over you.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
Is there a dark cloud following you? Network admin hiring a hitman and an admin committing suicide? I have worked places where people rage quit, but sounds like bad luck.
TrueStoriesIpromise@reddit
The suicide was because the guy was going through a bad divorce.
The murder-for-hire guy had a drug problem.
Others:
We had a network admin who RMA'ed devices and sold the replacements (effectively stealing from Cisco). We only found out about that when Cisco tried to bill us.
Another network guy kept falling asleep at his desk (open floor plan). He lasted less than 30 days.
And we had another network guy who would "work on the wireless" on the other floor and take naps.
And we had yet another network guy, married, who started hooking up with the female team manager, also married. I believe they married each other.
===
I was a server admin for all of these except the suicide; I was the server team manager when that happened. Nice guy, he gave me some KISS concert tickets just a few weeks before.
mdervin@reddit
That's a complete run away,
ITguydoingITthings@reddit
A lot of time it's not just what they say about the previous admin, but HOW they say it, or the reaction, or the looks they give when answering, etc.
virtualadept@reddit
Sometimes places do. I've interviewed at a couple of places where, over lunch, the guy interviewing me said, "Look, don't work here, it's bad." And when I've worked at places that were awful I've done the same thing when I had to interview candidates.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
Sometimes you get places that are so bad that someone in the process sabotages the process. I had one interview years ago where one of the members of the team told me that at one point he lost a bunch of weight from the workload before they filled a position. I refused the offer and their management was surprised. Probably dodged a bullet figuratively.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
Maybe not in those explicit words, but sometimes you find some narcissist managers that that can't keep a lid on it for 30-60 minutes.
nefarious_bumpps@reddit
You might get an answer if you ask the person your potential manager, but I doubt it. That could result in a lawsuit by the former employee. You'll probably get a generic "left to pursue other opportunities; unless the poor sod keeled over on the datacenter floor or got carried away in handcuffs, in which case "he left for personal reasons."
TheGraycat@reddit
No but their answers or non-answers can tell you a lot.
“It was time for him to move on” could mean he was there too long and stagnates or he had a falling out with key stakeholders.
“He wanted to persue a new challenge” could mean he’d outgrown the role or he’d been walked out for doing something dodgy. Or they’re looking to cut costs or have a toxic work environment.
They may be really open and say something like he was a good fit for the role in the direction the company wanted to go. Which could be true or they could be trying to cover that they’ve gutted the budget, want Platinum Level service and the person bailed / left for medial reasons.
Your follow up questions are where you can pin them down.
caa_admin@reddit
I've been asking variations of "Why is the position available?" for a few decades.
You learn to discern truth receiving a non-answer.
StormlitRadiance@reddit
That truthful answer comes out surprisingly often.
Metalfreak82@reddit
Mostly, you can read between the lines what the real answer is.
narcissisadmin@reddit
That's one of my first questions: why is this position open?
2FalseSteps@reddit
Maybe the previous guy hired a hitman to kill his wife?
beardedhelpdeskman@reddit
When you interview in the same building as your possible future coworkers but you arent introduced to any of them.
XxRaNKoRxX@reddit
I have a few red flag criteria I follow when job hunting:
1) Any position that reports to CFO (Any company that has IT still reporting to Accounting is stuck in the 80's and should be avoided)
2) Job descriptions that are KPI heavy.
3) Medical positions .......at least in my area (NY, NJ, PA) when medical facilities have issues (ransomware, outages, etc) they fire IT staff and clear-house instead of targeting the cause. That coupled with budget constraints .....no thanks!
sir_mrej@reddit
LOTS of IT places still report to the CFO. It suuuuuucks for sure. But it's not unavoidable in a lot of cases.
XxRaNKoRxX@reddit
Yes, those are typically the places where they dont embrace change.
I am sure most of us know WHY IT report to CFO quite often....but if you don't its because the first PC's in the company were used for financial accounting purposes. Then they had to hire a "computer guy" to fix the 1 computer in the company. Most companies realized many years ago once computers became necessary for most aspects of business that IT needs to be its own business unit. Some. still haven't. I would prefer to to work for those companies.
sir_mrej@reddit
Nah sometimes it's because IT is too small to report to the CEO, and the place doesn't have a Chief Admin Officer, and IT has to go somewhere.
HitmanCodename47@reddit
The medical part in the tristate area you're speaking to... Does that come from a personal anecdote? Was actually a bit keen on applying to some analyst positions (L1/L2) they had listed but, I now have reservations lol.
XxRaNKoRxX@reddit
Comes from discussions with other local IT experts. Also, seeing first hand when local hospital network (Hackensack Meridian) had a data breach a few yrs back. Suddenly there were a bunch of job openings for Data Storage positions.
HitmanCodename47@reddit
Well I appreciate the insight tons! I was looking right at some HMH positions.. Will steer clear now.
XxRaNKoRxX@reddit
Happy to help
Metalfreak82@reddit
Family owned business. Never again. Dad is the CEO, mom is doing HR, son 1 is account manager and son 2 and 3 I forgot, but they were also in the lead somewhere.
Twenty escapes for them to end the contract sooner than the end date, but if you want that, there are several clauses that prevent that.
pdp10@reddit
Except for time-specified NDAs, there's virtually no valid contract provision that can tie one's hands unless the counterparty is paying on an ongoing basis for the privilege. Therefore I'm quite skeptical at the story of a contract where someone was allegedly obligated on an ongoing basis and couldn't leave.
Metalfreak82@reddit
I live in Europe, if you sign a year contract, you cannot leave the company before that year ends unless you and you employer agree about it or there is an escape clause that allows that. On the other hand, there is a trial period of a month (if the contract is for a minimum of 7 months and a maximum of 12) where both you and employer can end the employment immediately if one of them feels their is no match. And a temporary contract can only be extended twice, after that, it automatically becomes a lifetime contract from which the employer cannot fire you very easy (they have to build up a file and you have three strikes before your out, or you have to do something harmful towards your company, in that case you can be fired immediately), but you can leave at any time, taking into account the one or two months that you still have to work before your contract ends (which you agreed by signing the contract).
jfernandezr76@reddit
Not in Spain and I'm quite skeptical it's valid in most of EU. You can leave at will, maybe you won't be getting some unpaid compensation if you're not giving 15-30 days notice. But as a FTE there isn't any obligation more than that.
Metalfreak82@reddit
Ow yes, there is. NL here. You cannot leave at any time if you have a year contract without an extra clause that allows that (to be fair: most do have this clause, but it's not always that as I've experienced once already) , and you have to give a months notice minimum, where the date doesn't matter. So if you have in your contract a one month ending period and you resign at january 2nd or on the 31st, it doesn't matter, you still have to work the whole of february. (unless you can use paid time off days for that and agree with your employer) If you have two or even three months in the contract, you have to work those full months too.
jfernandezr76@reddit
Wow, I wasn't aware of that. It seems it's restricting the employees movements to other companies.
I guess this is about your working culture, because in Spain nobody wants to have a disgruntled employee that gave the leaving notice in the company for more time than essential. If you force them to stay, at best they will do the bare minimum. At worst, just imagine what a sysadmin can do.
I'm not saying our work culture is bad. Just that if someone decides to leave its company because of a bad experience, and doesn't feel welcome to leave, it can easily get passionate.
outofspaceandtime@reddit
The knife cuts both ways: employers also have to abide by this rule. So if they signed an employment contract with limited duration (as these are called) and then two months later whatever you were supposed to do falls through, they do owe you either that whole duration’s wage and or employment.
That’s for employee-employee relationships of course; you’re more likely to see those temporary roles fulfilled by consultants or interim workers.
Metalfreak82@reddit
We are lacking that passionate part haha. But in our country we have a culture of discussing everything, so if you and your boss can agree otherwise it's also possible to deviate from the agreements in the contract, as long as you both agree. But most of the time people just know this and if you're looking for another job, you just take that into account. For example, after two years working at my current workplace, I have to work a full 3 (!!!) months before I'm allowed to leave. Most ex-colleagues could get that down to 2, but if replacement is hard to find and there's too much work, management can enforce the full 3 months. For me that's also too long, but I'm not planning on leaving soon.
Doing bad stuff if you have to have to stay is not in our culture and is the stupidest thing you can do. Because if you do, they know where to find you and then it can get costly for you very fast. (fines, breach of contract etc.) It will also greatly reduce your chances with another employer, because let's face it: it's a small world nowadays. So it's kind of regarded als self-sabotage if you'd do something like this.
awkwardnetadmin@reddit
This. Did this for a few years and it was utterly crazy place where people got into arguments regularly because several employees were part of the family. There is a reason that many corporations try to limit multiple people from the same household working at the same location.
skz-@reddit (OP)
I got better one ! How about a CEO son that "loves" computers and knows better! (also has no IT experience what so ever but watches LTT and thinks he is an IT guy)
Aim_Fire_Ready@reddit
To be frank, watching LTT makes me feel stupider. (YMMV.)
SnooMacarons467@reddit
I like Jake’s content, he is the most relatable to me being in IT.
I watch it to get ideas of what to research and look deeper into.
cjbarone@reddit
The CEO's son can complete all the IT work and more, right after telling you about today's sponsor....
Metalfreak82@reddit
Ow yeah, I was hired as an A/V engineer, but because I came from IT they wanted to use my experience and knowledge for the replacement of their hardware and some licenses. After I created a plan on how to do that, they always found somewhere where this or that could be cheaper. After 6 months, they still hadn't bought something new because they still found it too expensive.
gordonv@reddit
Who you know, not what you know.
matt95110@reddit
I worked for a family owned software company once, it was a fucking nightmare. We would be in a meeting and siblings and their cousins would just start fighting. You weren’t sure if you needed to call HR or their mothers to break it up.
Creative_Onion_1440@reddit
Luckily for the parent commenter the mom was doing HR, so that'd be a gimme.
matt95110@reddit
You joke about it but the head of HR was a childhood friend of one of the owners.
Creative_Onion_1440@reddit
Yup, nepotism stinks.
NotYourAvgCISO@reddit
If your gut says run, run. Chaos and no IT lead are red flags. Good pay’s tempting, but job security and a solid team matter more.
OmegaNine@reddit
Unpaid overtime
We are family
Ask about turn over
Windows as a web server
Caranesus@reddit
Unpaid sounds like UNRAID, lol.
I always avoid first two things.
randommm1353@reddit
Is the first one even legal?
OmegaNine@reddit
Sadly yes. In the US and Canada we are considered infrastructure engineers and are salary exempt. Meaning they don’t have to pay us OT.
Dbthegreat1@reddit
You may have applied for my old job...
StiffAssedBrit@reddit
Vulture capitalists are scum who will bleed you dry and spit out the bones. They're only there to leech as much money out of the business, as possible, before filling their pockets and running just as the whole house of cards is about to fall. I wouldn't work for any company that was run by these parasites.
Childermass13@reddit
One of my red flags: "We're more like a family here." So ... no one respects policy or authority and the budget is kept in the back of a cookbook
NotUglyJustBroc@reddit
CFO guy running the dept. DOOM
djgizmo@reddit
Less than 10 days of PTO per year.
layoffs less than 6 months ago. (Doesn’t even have to be mass)
Companies that say working 45-50 hours a week is normal here.
Companies that say we’re a family
VirtualDenzel@reddit
If i would ever apply to work under someone again
If they doubt what i put on my resume under skills im out.
Either they are on the same level and it goes instantly into hiring (as it generally went)
Or they doubt and try to lowball and then you just give em the finger.
When i opened myself up on linkedin i had 90+ job offers in a day (now i never will have to do that again). But yeh if you are skilled and good people will notice and jobs come naturally with good offers. Red flags are easy to tell
SikhGamer@reddit
Exploding offers.
dlyk@reddit
Did a chill interview with IT and was called back for one with HR, which was in a different building.
Strike one: Security guard stopped me, palm on chest for not wearing a mask, a full year after the mandate had been completely lifted. Told me everyone is expected to wear a mask inside at all times. He gave me one himself after I told him I was there for an interview.
Strike two: The HR lady was extremely sour and looked and sounded uninterested. She demeaned her 50yo subordinate in front of me and told him to "sit in the corner and take notes, silently".
Strike three: In the middle of the interview she asked, without prompt from me, if I was currently working with a flexible schedule, to which I truthfully responded I was. She said, verbatim, "We don't have that here. We are all expected to be in the office before 9 and we leave when our job for the day is done".
At that point I got up, remover my mask, left it on the table, and told her that that would be all. I left the room over her protests. When I got to the lobby, she had called the guard and aske him to stop me (!). As the huge good moved towards me I told him that before he beat me I'd make sure to put out both his eyes, while staring at him. He moved aside.
This was at a very big pharma company in my country, where people regularly beg for "introductions".
UptimeNull@reddit
Red flags:
Shit interview process that is not organized. People are late. Not sure who you will see next? Look for communication deficits!
Onsite 3 hour interviews in 2025.
Not reconfirming the range of pay.
Need rockstar included in job listing.
Will wear multiple hats in the listing.
We are a family in the job listing.
Asking for 156 years experience for a software that was recently released.
… i could go on for days!
Possible Solutions:
Ask if you can interview with the team that you will be working with?
Ask who you would report too? This is super important!!
Ask about company growth along with your possible growth opportunities?
Research company on glassdoor and throw some osint at the company and the execs
If public. Look up stock prives and how much they have changed in the last 6 months, 1 year, 3 year, 5 year.
Good luck and cheers mate!
Fine-Palpitation-528@reddit
Does "Vulture Capital" (love the term) mean the company has VC funding or that the company is owned by a Private Equity firm?
Those are 2 EXTREMELY different things. Being backed by VC and getting stock options is generally a great thing for employees. VC comes in when the company is growing (generally) so there can be some excitement there about the future.
Private equity on the other hand comes in when the company is done growing (generally). They want to squeeze blood from a stone. You can expect a constant interest in how to reduce overhead from these companies... usually no stock upside either.
Working at either can be fine but I'd personally prefer VC over PE (private equity).
Acceptable_Road_9562@reddit
See if you can get the previous IT guy's name and check the company on Glass Door. Previous IT Man may have written a review with some pertinent info.
NotThePersona@reddit
The last one that made me just walk away was when I asked what the typical day was like and the owner/manager started with in before 9 out after 5. That right there told me that the work life balance was going to be shit.
malikto44@reddit
I will ask about the last person who had the job, to see what good and bad points they left behind, so I can make a transition as smoothly as possible.
In my experience, when a company gets merged, jobs pop up, sort of like a dead cat bounce, at the two companies. However, those jobs are usually short lived, and they are going to punted to the curb when all the bought-out company stuff is merged.
On one hand, if the pay is really good, that may be a good thing, but on the other hand, what would happen if you just found your badge didn't work in the door, and your laptop and phone erased themselves at some random time? Last thing you want is to be stuck without a job.
Also, with the job market so full of candidates, it makes me wonder why they are even advertising the job. In economic situations similar to this, I've seen positions like this have high turnover rates, just because they put so much stress on the person, or find a way to fire them.
Special_Luck7537@reddit
When your immediate report tells you at the second interview that you "do not fit the culture here' Had this happen twice, turned down both jobs, one called me back and said that they had let go my would be boss and offered me his position. I refused.
ChromeDomers@reddit
Job seems fine, but on your first day you learn that someone else was hired before you, came in and quit after the first day -- and you learn this from when talking to others in the company but nobody knows anything other than that.
If your company is owned by Private Equity it may be worth reconsidering the job. You can either have one that is decent, or one that is trying to squeeze blood from the turnip and cost cutting everything/everywhere in the name of increased profits for the PE overlords.
If your IT Director suddenly resigns without warning and you learn about it on a conference call on a Wed and their last day is Friday.
Sushi-And-The-Beast@reddit
They will probably want you to script and then they will teach you exchange lol
Watsonwes@reddit
Horrible sec architecture sign off by leadership . Example would be no MFA because “employees don’t like it”
RUN. Your putting your career at risk
DontTakePeopleSrsly@reddit
ALWAYS trust your gut, but situations like this could be ripe for fast advancement if you are confident in your skills.
arbiterxero@reddit
If they just merged with a second company, they should have 2 entirely separate IT teams and be looking to downsize some of that administrative overhead.
Instead they’re hiring?
….. a lot more than one person has left them.
IndependenceMean8774@reddit
If they say they'll get back to you in a week, but they don't get back to you for over a month, reject the job offer and run the other way. Or if they offer you $25 an hour at the interview or in the job ad, but when they call with an offer they lowball you with $15, again run. Because they are liars and their word means nothing.
Also, if the boss is a condescending asshole and/or asks a lot of rude and intrusive questions, reject the job offer. Accepting a job offer from a jerk never ends well.
And if they offer you a job on the spot, run. Because they are desperate and the job will suck.
blacklotusY@reddit
If they tell you "we're like a family here", that's a red flag and you should run away as far as you can. When they say that, it means you should be working overtime to help a "family" out since we're all family here. There's no family when it comes to business, and those should be two separate things.
Your coworkers are not your family, because if you somehow hit rock bottom in your life, they're are not going to be like, "stay at my place and I'll help a brother out until you get back on your feet." Oh, but I thought we were family? You're there to solely do your work, make money, and get out. Don't let employers take advantage of you.
whatchulookinatman@reddit
If it involves sitting at a desk for 40 hours a week for 47 years.
lost_signal@reddit
I have 50+ questions you should ask I wrote up here.
Ranges from the IT side, to the company, to compensation. I wrote this during my last move to my current job and I’ve been here 10 years.
lost_signal@reddit
Travel Points and status – Traveling for work a lot adds up. Note this is a NON-taxable (Weird exclusion). So when traveling, I can get hotel points and airline points. With Southwest, I have a companion pass (My wife flies free with me), and with Marriot, I get free cocktails and appetizers in the afternoon and breakfast in the morning in the executive lounge. I get free upgrades with Marriot when traveling so that $150 small room can turn into a 40th-floor suite sometimes. Travel Policy – Do they make you fly 18 hours, five hops to save $100?
Do they put you in first class if the flight is over 4 hours? Do you stay in the Motel 8 and have to share a room (or PAY for your spouse’s 1/2 of the room if they happen to travel with you!). Do they make you fly in the morning you are presenting when it’s 12 times zones away, or do they put you up in the hotel for the weekend to adjust to the time zone, and be a tourist for the weekend?
Team Offsite, outings, parties, etc. – Got a team offsite and can you expense going snowmobiling or something cool? Beer bash for finishing release? If you are on campus are there free movie nights and other things. Does the boss cover happy hour on Friday?
Retirement stuff
401K – What’s the match? Is it partial? Does it take a while to get vested? What can you invest in? Are the default options all garbage or can you keep fees low and put money into low fee index?
401A – Like a 401K match but you don’t have to put money in, they just put x% of your salary. Common in Education and non-profits. 457(b) – Can withdraw from it without early penalty if you no longer work for the said employer. This one carries risks if the employer goes insolvent. 403B – A lower overhead 401K plan with no match. Common in Education and non-profits.
Pension – These do exist in a few places still in the US. More common overseas.
MISC.
Equipment allowance. My wife spends money on books of stethoscopes. Some people can expense screens, laptops, mice. We have vending machines for phone chargers, mice, etc. around our offices.
Telecom – Will they cover your cell phone or data plan? Did they buy you a pager to get out of paying your cell phone bill (I had one of these in 2008)?
Gym reimbursement – Do they pay for Gym memberships.
Negotiating Compensation
lost_signal@reddit
Education
School, College, Certifications, Classes. – Do they pay for certification tests, if so how many attempts? The key one to test the seriousness of this is to ask others in the department what they have spent in the past year.
Conferences – Tacking onto certifications do they pay for VMworld? Do they cover travel and hotels? Are you banned from events in Vegas even if they are a lower cost than San Francisco? (not uncommon in SLED).
Sabbatical In our company you can apply for 3-month transfers to wildly different jobs to learn about how that role functions? You can do a 1-week education track (take education in something unrelated).
Stock and Investment Compensation
RSU (Restricted Stock Units)’s – If you keep getting these every year on a standard 2-5 (Depends on company and grant window) year vestment schedule, you eventually end up with a rather nice kicker. This also is nice if your stock doubles within a given year (Well except for capital gains). The longer you stay, the stickier these become, and the more a company likes you, the more they will give you to “handcuff” you to the company. The more a company wants you to stay the more you get these. A decent 6 figure pile of this is nice and can be used in leverage with a company who wants to poach on you why they better give you a bigger base (or a bigger pile of them!).
Stock Options – Inversely if you work for a startup, you might get stock options. These are a LONG shot gambling game (like 2% pay off), but I know some guys who their stock is trading in the 30’s and their options were in the $2 range so assuming they make it to lockout I expect to get a call to hang out on their yacht. Personally, there are so many options to screw the employee like clawbacks/ratchet clauses I don’t put much faith in these. https://tldroptions.io
ESPP – Buy stock at a discount (See above comments). Note these are bought at a 10-15% discount based on the beginning or ending window (Whichever is lower) so its a game of heads I win, tails you lose against the market and can pay pretty well (or just be a nice couple grand of cash). I’ve had windows where I made 15%, sometimes I’ve made 115%. These are structured where you make money no matter once but read the fine print.
ESOP – The weird retirement type cousin of ESPP. I hear these are more common overseas.
Flexibility in work
Paternity leave – Some places do partial pay, some to maternal OR paternal, and some do maternal only AFTER you burn out your PTO. Note maternity, paternity, and adoption leave may have different rules. I’ve got a family member whose company policy is six months. Wife is a pediatrician at a children’s hospital. She gets Zero. This is all over the place in the US.
Vacation – My first job I had zero vacation for the first year. Note some companies this is more negotiable than salary; sometimes it’s less. Are Sick days different? Do you need a doctor note? Are there back out times for vacation (VMworld I’m pretty sure is a non-starter in my current role). Do they make you take a vacation for conferences (Yes I’ve seen this a lot sadly…)
Flex Time/Overtime pay – Can you turn overtime into time off? If you come in early can you leave early? Do you get paid for overtime (even if your an exempt employee some places will still pay if approved)? Does the company miscategorize helpdesk as exempt or other questionable legal practices?
Commute Costs – Company Car, parking pass, bus pass, toll pass? What’s the non-reimbursed depreciation? What is the $ per mile they allow for trips to the datacenter? Do you get a car allowance (EMEA this is more common)?
Work from home/anywhere Can I just leave town on Wed/Thursday and go to a beach house to finish working out the week? There are HUGE costs savings to working from home, but do pay attention if you need to supply your desk, chairs, monitors, etc.
Expense Do they let you do your booking, do they require a corporate credit card (no points can be brutal, to the point of $20-30K easily for some people in compensation) Can you expense travel lounges on long flights. Can you expense more than $15 for lunch with a customer? Using Lift instead of downtown and airport parking has cut my mileage to non-existent for my car.
lost_signal@reddit
Compensation Questions
1099 or W-2 (US). Contractor? The contractor who’s a W-2 of the contracting company? Full-time employee of end customer? LOTS of ways to chop this. There are tax implications of being 1099. Note, there are potential issues with being a 1099 as a tech worker if you are treated like a full-time employee.
Pay Cycle – You shouldn’t be living paycheck to paycheck, but knowing the cycle makes sense if your rolling from a weekly to a monthly you may need to move some things around to handle the change in cash flow.
Salary Base and it’s growth – can it grow? Is there an org chart with clear steps to moving up and getting bumps in pay? Does everyone get 1% raises and stagnate till they leave? A company that hasn’t given raises in 5 years has given everyone a pay cut.
OTE Bonus. Cash value or is it a multiplier based on base pay? Tied to metrics or your boss and directors random fancy? (This isn’t that bad, but you need to know who decides it). While there is an “On Target Earnings” nothing stops you from getting over 100%. The biggest way to see how real this is is to check with GlassDoor and existing employees who’ve been there 4-5 years. Sometimes a bonus is real; sometimes they are “Virtual”. For bonus how often is it paid out, and will they pro-rate a partial bonus for a new employee joining mid-cycle? I once had a co-worker leave for a job that he thought made 10% more but he forgot to ask about if they had a bonus. At the end of the year, he learned they didn’t have them (or raises) and discovered he didn’t make more money.
Insurance – PPO/HSA/HMO/EPO/POS all have different issues. What’s in network vs. out of network? Also Dental and Insurance. What about medications? Eyecare health insurance is a scam/pre-payment program. Use EyebuyDirrect or some online place to buy glasses, or max our HSA and get LASIK if you can. Reddit has a good thread explaining the difference here and how to compare.
lost_signal@reddit
What about the Company*
What’s the companies roadmap?
If they don’t know where they want to go then it’s going to difficult to help steer them there.
What is the YoY growth? Is the company growing, or is it holding on for life support? Some industries are cyclical (Oil/Gas) some are past their prime (Sun Microsystems was a different company to work for in 1994, and 2001).
How many Employees are at the company? At a five man company, you might have to put toner in the printer. At IBM you likely will not know that person name. Some people like large companies, some like smaller. There are pros and cons to both.
Is the company profitable under GAAP? Companies sometimes do crazy things like claim they are profitable if you exclude employee compensation. If a company is a tech startup growing 100% year over year, don’t expect this one to be true, but if it’s a mature public company, this is something you can look up.
If not, what is the timeline or pathway towards profitability? If it’s a startup, it may be planning on exiting soon, or taking more VC and growing to the moon. Both have their risks, make sure you understand them. What is the runway (how long at the current burn rate will they survive)?
What is the companies competitive advantage? Is it low cost? Is it Intellectual property? Is it market saturation/penetration? This can shed some light on how the company operates. A ruthless lean manufacturing company might give employee’s 8-year-old laptops because they are cheap on capital spending.
What is the biggest roadblock to scaling the company?
Is it sales, marketing, operations, R&D?
What challenges does the company have at the moment? What do you foresee coming?
This can be quite telling; it can show that they’ve taken the time to identify and address challenges. Identifying key competitors here can help quite a bit.
lost_signal@reddit
The Team Questions
Who will be the manager? Can I meet them? – It’s a red flag if you can not meet your line manager. You will want to know the person who will assess your performance, impact your bonus, assign you good (or bad) projects, etc…
What is your biggest daily/weekly frustration?
Key things to note is if this is something you can stand, or if this is something that’s fixable. Bonus points if you bring unique skills, or you will be working on a project to fix it. “Our Fibre Channel network is slow, but the HCI project you will be on should fix that!”
Ask about how success is measured?
Is there a forced Stack rank? Are there general metrics that you target (uptime, on-time delivery of projects?).
Who is on the team? Can I meet them? Knowing who you work with is crucial. Are they talented, Friendly, cooperative?
How does the team communicate? Are there daily meetings, do they use Slack, do they just use email, is everyone in the same building? What percentage of the teamwork remotely?
How is documentation handled? (Well documented Wiki, vs. the last guy, torched Jira on the way out and you will be guessing passwords).
What are the platforms and Vendors? Are you a CCIE and it’s an all Juniper shop? Don’t be scared! The key is knowing what area’s you will need training.
What is the new employee onboarding process? – Will it be two days of well-orchestrated events, or will you still be waiting for a phone and computer 30 days later?
What are expectations for the first 90, 180, 365 days? Is there a project, or milestone or education path they need you to have accomplished. How long do they expect you to fit into the shoes?
What is the cross coverage?
Is there only one person who knows how to restore from backup? Is there cross training? This can be bad if you want to go on vacation…
What is the upward mobility?
What are the expectations for moving up in title, rank, role/responsibility? Are there defined elements to your career path and claim or will you be “IT Dude” until “Head IT Dude” retires?
lost_signal@reddit
The Job Questions…
What’s the team/dept/companies view on Training?
If they don’t have a training programme or allow time for training/skills improvement that could be a red flag.
Why is the position open?
Growth, backfill, etc. This is the reverse of “why are you looking to leave your last job?”. If it’s the 3rd time, they tried to fill a roll something may be off…
What are the expected hours? What are the exceptions, holidays, etc.?
I once worked an outage till 4 AM then was expected to walk into the office by 8:30 AM I was happy to leave that place. School districts might do four day work weeks in the summer; some oil/gas companies do 4 x 10’s or other weird schedules. Occasionally I have to take calls early or late (to deal with people in EMEA, ANZ, etc.).
Are there SLA’s in place?
What is expected of your team, and are they equipped to meet it?
What is the annual IT/Department budget?
Whats the budget for your group look like? What projects have been funded as well as what is planning on being funded can be a proxy for this question. You don’t want to walk into a shop with 8-year-old systems and no budget for replacement.
Who determines the IT budget?
What’s the process, who are the actors involved?
What’s the company’s position on open/capex IT spend?
Lease vs. Buy. Are they balanced, or for financial reporting reasons (ROIC) are they 100% one or the other if possible.
Are they cloud (friendly, neutral, hostile)?
What are they using for cloud now, and what are they planning on migrating?
What does your current infrastructure look like?
Shiney brand new VxRAIL/UCP-HC Cluster, or 200 Physical servers running Windows 2000? How bad is the technical debt? What/where are the datacenters, who are the providers, what is the networking, (WAN, and edge/campus gear). What storage vendors and hypervisors are in play.
What is the spread of the tasks expected and are they reasonable?
There’s nothing like being hired to be a data center architect and discovering that fixing printers is in your responsibilities. Skill growth requires you focus on things that matter. Also, if managers see you fixing printers or doing other lower end work, they tend to mentally associate what you should be paid with the bottom 10% rather than the top 10% valuable work.
What Services are outsourced?
Does someone manage printers, the WAN circuits, the storage, backups, the DR, etc.? Beware shops that don’t believe in outsourcing anything as they tend to view in-house labor as a “free” commodity.
What are they doing for DR?
This question is a mix of what is their plan, and what is a reality. How often is it tested? Do they hit the SRM failover button once a quarter, or do they have an out of date binder?
What is the targeted refresh cycle for Network/Servers/Storage?
Do they run stuff five years, ten years? Do they run gear beyond its natural life, or beyond support agreements?
What is the maintenance schedule? Do they patch at all, is there automation in patching. What Compliance do they have? PCI/HITECH/etc.
michaelpaoli@reddit
Sometimes the signs are subtle ... sometimes not so subtle. Some examples:
Rinyaboi@reddit
This sounds quite literally like my company rn. Does the company name start with a "P"?
bws7037@reddit
It's just a job, until something better comes along.
merRedditor@reddit
Hybrid
cpupro@reddit
Just be mentally prepared to have to rebuild or replace every piece of infrastructure, with zero documentation, and absolutely no help, and probably no budget to do so.
Godspeed.
Kurosanti@reddit
I was the IT guy who left. (Not in your situation)
I said I wanted severance package built into my new contract with them and they showed me the door.
Sued them for what I was asking for in severance and got the satisfaction of watching them try to fill my position on indeed.
NoTime4YourBullshit@reddit
Yes, definitely run.
I worked for a company for 10 years until they got bought out by a hedge fund and proceeded to run it into the ground.
Hedge funds buy struggling companies to either cook their books or to unload their debt on them so they can write it off in a bankruptcy.
I will never again work for a company that’s owned by a hedge fund.
SnooMacarons467@reddit
Ask them a very very basic tech question, something that everyone should know by now, such as how do accounts lockouts occur or something. If the response you get is along the lines of, “I don’t know, that’s what your here for” run
These people will expect to be spoon fed literally everything and there is a culture of not caring enough to learn the basics. For example, working in a school and a teacher constantly getting locked out because of saved password and blaming you is a nightmare. No amount of you trying to figure it out when the answer to every question is “I don’t know, just fix it” will save your sanity, especially when the top brass actually believe that you are the cause too. Companies are happier to fire who they perceive to be the problem instead of fixing it, and they will continue this loop until someone figures it out and fixes it, only to then believe that they just had to find the one good tech in town rather than look at themselves in the mirror.
Account lockouts is just a placeholder for anything that they as an end user encounter often. You can also ask them how something in their phone works, like joining WiFi at work etc. Everyone thinks it’s a different process to joining at home because they have to use their personal login, if they say they don’t know the process but IT will sort it out for you, then just walk. Unless that’s actually what you WANT to be doing
billiarddaddy@reddit
Flexible Time Off, not PTO
ShermansWorld@reddit
I was called to come into the Canadian main office I applied for (large international corp...)
I went in... They led me into the main open office area...walking towards the back private offices of HR and upper management. Immediately the chatter I heard walking in, silenced.
I'm walking down the centre aisle... Following the HR assistant, Someone, in a haunted house like voice "Dooon't wooork heeere..." Then from another part of the room "Ruuun aaaway! Save yourself...."
No one laughed or snickered...
Did the interview... Left the building... Didn't accept the offer.
6 months later, maybe a year - they closed the building.
Twattybatty@reddit
If you can stick out your current job, do that if you are unsure. Normally people forget that an interview goes both ways.
1nspectorMamba@reddit
I once turned down a job because I went on linkedin and looked up the guy that got fired... he had only been there 3 months. So I looked up the guy before that.... another short term dude. The guys before that... another short term dude. I get the sense they either don't understand what IT does, or have unrealistic expectations. So I bailed.
Youre-In-Trouble@reddit
dirty bathroom.
NickBurns2330@reddit
Just find the guy you're filling in for on LinkedIn and ask him why he left, lol.
virtualadept@reddit
Reading through the three things you listed, my gut instinct if I were in your position would be to bail. If they offer you a position, politely decline.
CyberFireball25@reddit
'We are a family'
'Work hard play hard '
dreadpiratewombat@reddit
Opportunity exists in distress. Being the person who can step into chaos and create some semblance of order is a highly marketable and valuable skill set. In fact, “vulture” capitalist companies try to keep a stable of such people they parachute into their latest shit show of an acquisition. It’s not for everyone and you still need to check for the kinds of toxic, underlying structural bullshit that will make the gig not fun.
Do your due diligence on why the previous folks left. Understand the corporate objectives and how they’re being measured. What is the budget and timeline for achieving said objectives? What’s the culture like? How many interview red flags do you click?
All these help you decide if this particular shit show is for you. No shame if it’s not, it’ll likely come with long hours and a lot of tough work.
OkBaconBurger@reddit
Interviewed for a job and started asking questions. Small shop.
Oh. Venture capital. Nope nope nope.
I’m in charge of the IT Dept but I’m an accountant and don’t really know what you do. Oh damn. Nope nope nope.
Unable to explain basic benefits like pto and health insurance. Wtf?
And the one that took the cake. The SysAdmin I would be working with. His face, the death in his eyes. I knew. He looked right at me, our eyes locked, and I just knew he was telling me not to take the job. If I did he would train me to replace him and he was already planning to run.
Thank you kind sir. You did a noble service. I wish you the best and I hope you have found your out.
Smiley_Dub@reddit
Roll up! Roll up! Acquire, acquire again, rolling up scale all the time. Must be a nightmare for most departments as they get "right-sized" after 12-18 months in.
The business they're in is called Scaling. They font care about the underlying businesses.
Acquire - scale - sell
patjuh112@reddit
For me it would be anything that has a link to Sony. Worst employer in 30+ years.
tristanIT@reddit
Vague working hours where it is subtly implied you will be expected to be available 24/7 immediately with no established on-call rota, extra compensation, or minimum response time. These types of jobs eat at you, so they better be making it worth your while in other ways.
brianozm@reddit
I would want some clear written objectives before starting, and a period after which those can be mutually reset/extended - say six months.
kerosene31@reddit
When two companies merge, yet they need people - that means there was a purge and/or exodus. What happened to everyone else in addition to "the guy"?
Anyway, I hate VCs. You're not wrong for seeing the red flag. VCs pick the bones clean and leave a smoking crater behind. VCs live for short term money at the expense of long term success (this is the big problem with companies today, they just care about the stock today). They'll be long gone before it all blwos up. That's their problem - they aren't there to make successful companies, they are there to pick the bones clean and fly away.
On the plus side, the purge already happened and now you're on the other side. This company can blow up anytime, but so can anyone else.
That said, chaos can be lucrative. MSPs aren't exactly the place you want to stay either. If the money is good (how good) and your current job isn't amazing, it can work.
There's no easy answers in life. Trust your gut, but don't let risk paralyze you either. Your MSP could fire you tomorrow too.
jfernandezr76@reddit
If it's owned by a VC company you should ask for a VC salary.
hotfistdotcom@reddit
I came in as a contractor during a merge and it turned out my boss was incompetent and a thief. They fired him and gave me his job. It was a pretty good job while it lasted, but they wanted me in from WFH when they decided the pandemic was over in late 2021 and my partner has one of those autoimmune conditions where covid means (or at least meant) about 30-40% chance of death. They refused to flex on it, I asked, I went up the chain, I explained I would leave if they did not but the previous company owner who was now a VP who was in office once a week at best hated WFH, so I fucked off. I'm in office 1.5 days now and the new place failed to tell me when everyone had covid and was extremely rude when I got covid at work and was deathly sick, as was my partner who we thought got out in time,. but it turns out she just had like a 3 week incubation before it started hammering her into dust.
She survived, thankfully but I guess the moral of the story is it sucks terribly everywhere, and every job is built to extract value out of you beyond what they pay you and you will almost always be treated like shit, everywhere, at all times until you die. Fun stuff!
Otto-Korrect@reddit
I wouldn't do it without knowing why the previous guy left. In HIS words, not HR's.
brewman101@reddit
I sat in an interview on zoom once. The manager and a few of his employees. None of the employees bothered being engaged in the interview.
The manager then proceeded to explain the job was to regularly report back to the business on the performance of systems. The business had spent a fortune on these systems and still complained even though there was no performance problem.
I was to backfill one of the guys not paying attention and answer for the system performance.
First job I've ever talked my way out of in the interview.
mouthbreatherguy@reddit
I’m in a very similar situation. Left an MSP to work for a recently acquired company, previous IT guy bailed. It’s been a dumpster fire. Ownership company is slowly gutting the acquired company and backtracking on a ton of promises. Bonuses, etc. Base pay is good at least but it’s becoming increasingly clear that this is a short term engagement. 2/10 do not recommend.
bushmaster2000@reddit
If the hiring manager is eastern indian i won't accept a interview being a white guy they won't hire me no matter how qualified i am.
IndividualStretch506@reddit
its fine, just be sure to document, save emails for evidence that you told them what to do for safety / security / best practices etc and don't be too upset whenever bs happens ; ) it will be fine
TK-CL1PPY@reddit
Opportunities arise from crisis. You could swing for the fences and end up CTO. Or it could suck your soul out and you go into repairing diesel engines.
cats_are_the_devil@reddit
Other guy was probably a redditor with imposter syndrome. When everyone said pull the cord and bail he did. This sub is the most predictable echo chamber...
prog-no-sys@reddit
umm, what? How did we get here from your previous sentences, lmao?
cats_are_the_devil@reddit
Everyone is saying hard pass on a job based on same criteria that most people say to quit on this sub. Not a giant logical leap.
prog-no-sys@reddit
I don't follow your logic here...
If the reasons for "hard passing" on this job are similar to other posts' "criteria that people give as reason to quit", doesn't that just make sense...? Help me understand your reasoning cause it doesn't make any sense to me lol
x_scion_x@reddit
if they offer you the job halfway through the interview.
secret_configuration@reddit
"Unlimited PTO"
"We are looking for a rockstar to join the team"
unclesleepover@reddit
Unlimited PTO? What’s up with that? Lol
secret_configuration@reddit
It's a scam. Unlimited PTO benefits the company as they don't have to pay out any unused but acrued PTO when you are leaving.
chillzatl@reddit
Vulture capital? grow up and get some balls...
Job interviews are two way streets, you're interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you, at least if you do actually have enough experience to be there in the first place. Ask the questions that are important to you and if you don't get convincing answers, you know what to do.
Reasonable_Option493@reddit
Other signs that are not necessarily a "run away" situation, but still something to keep an eye on: - A lot of bad reviews, and some of the good reviews seem fake - Sugar coating benefits with things like "casual work environment", "fun...", "free coffee", and so on. While any little good thing is cool, these are not benefits. Health insurance, dental insurance, PTO, hybrid or remote schedule, tuition reimbursement....are benefits. - The wording in the job posting, things like "we want a tech guru, wizard, a unicorn....200% motivated...." and the likes. - Any weird experience, unanswered question, issues with the process during interviewing and onboarding phases. - Unclear job description, too vague, looks like you won't be doing anything or too much for the pay....
d00ber@reddit
I've always done the same thing. Search for the last person on linkedin and ask why they left. I usually ask if I can get them a coffee and talk about the posting. Surprisingly more people in the field are open to that than you'd think.
emptyable@reddit
But how exactly do you find the previous employee? I'm just sure how to search in there. He might even not be on linkedin.
d00ber@reddit
I've actually never run into a case where they haven't been on linkedin.
Mobile-Lab4818@reddit
Not to stereotype, but if the leadership is Israeli or South Indian they’re probably going to work you like a dog with few benefits.
prog-no-sys@reddit
"Not to stereotype" - *proceeds to racially stereotype*
god I love reddit sometimes lmao
novicane@reddit
Bad stuff aside , great way to learn where the bodies buried and go from there.
Thebelisk@reddit
Definately ask why the previous person left, and don’t be shy to push them on an answer. In interviews, HR don’t hesitate to ask you why you are leaving your old job. It’s only fair that they give a genuine answer for why they are hiring.
I know of a case that a friend took a job in a new place. He was aware that he was replacing a person that had passed away. Very tragic to hear that kind of thing, he didn’t question it. The role was very appealing, the people seemed nice, so he accepted the position. First day on the job, he was given the full story. The guy he replaced had committed suicide on premise.
skz-@reddit (OP)
Jesus
wideace99@reddit
The last sysadmin did not leave... a big pile of papers just collapse on him... so It's still trap under... when is quite you can still hear him crying from blow the pile.
Anyway... a pair of good headsets will solve the problem :)
guyfierisguru@reddit
Run
Mundane-Restaurant76@reddit
"Have you heard of L Ron Hubbard?"
DonkeyTron42@reddit
A half empty office is usually a bad sign.
The_Original_Miser@reddit
If they are running a bunch of old/out of date/many versions behind software - find out why. They are only a very small number of legit reasons.
"This is our way." is not one of them. Ask me how I know.
Space_Goblin_Yoda@reddit
No. I'm scared.
thortgot@reddit
If a company just merged, they are generally in a period of restabilizing not expansion or contraction.
Outside of some truly terrible jobs, most jobs "fit" someone. Finding out what you care about and a role that matches that is the best advice I have.
Vulture capital ownership generally means running a sinking ship. This isn't inherently bad but you should absolutely be aware of that.
techie1980@reddit
I've been doing IT work , in some form or another, for about three decades now. A couple of things:
If your gut says "run" then listen and listen hard. Your brain is smarter than you think - but humans are not computers. You may be processing subtle signals that cannot be quantified. But generally you know what it takes for you to be successful and if your gut is saying "something is wrong" then you should listen. If you can dig in then do it. But I have turned down good jobs based on "something is wrong here" vibes. I sometimes think back and wonder - but in the end it worked out OK.
The fact that you didn't ask, and they didn't offer a reason even at offer stage, should tell you that it was NOT a good thing. Otherwaise a passing comment of "Bob moved onto greener pastures" or "Bob had to leave very suddenly to care for his family" would have been uttered by at least one person. If they're dealing wiht an IT person then they should know that you need to have the root cause. "We suddenly have no coverage" requires explanation. And gives you details about their priorities if they not only had one guy doing all of the things who suddenly quit, but they were so ill prepared that no one could cover at all.
Side note, for future reference: interviews are two way street. You need to interview the company. You need to ask the hard questions. I'll write down my questions/concerns because I know that I'll lock up. And be straightfoward. When I've brought up to government agencies "how often do you run out of money?" and don't get a straight answer (and it's not a place with endless buckets of money raining down) then I know that we're not in a truthful environment and adjust me expectations (and rates) accordingly.
asedlfkh20h38fhl2k3f@reddit
I'm really coming into the opinion that these mega MSP takeovers aren't going to work as well as they think they will, and I think the signs are starting to show. Their goal isn't to build a good IT company, it's to build a good enough IT company and hold it all together with glue enough to sell to a bigger fish for an easy profit.
If the MSP is owned by private equity I think that's a red flag. Maybe there's some good ones out there, but I think there's way more bad ones that are trying to emulate the good ones. How do you know if they're good or not? Well you probably won't know but there's likely to be signs.
thortgot@reddit
Good enough IT (or rather just barely good enough not to get fired) is the MSP profitability mantra.
zidemizar@reddit
When you hear the following statement:
We are family here.....
mdervin@reddit
If you don't have the balls to ask standard questions, I don't think this is the right time for you to move up in responsibility. You'll be asking a lot of people a lot of uncomfortable questions.
PE firms acquire companies because those companies were mismanaged and have tremendous value if competently run, The IT is either wildly overgrown, overpurchased and unmanageable or the IT department is running on 15-year-old equipment because the previous owners were so bad at their jobs there was no money available. You are either going to be pruning or building.
Fun-Fun-9967@reddit
listen to your gut
ITrCool@reddit
salazka@reddit
Make sure to ask why the other guy left. Either way it's good to ask.
You have no way to know if their answer will be honest, but if the company is decent, they will not try to hide completely why and will think you are someone serious with attention to detail.
If they find the question problematic, then it means they are shit. And if they do not select you for that then you are lucky.
candylandmine@reddit
I wouldn't touch this unless it was a contract. Does not sound like somewhere you'd want to be FTE.
TKInstinct@reddit
If you can find them on Linkedin then ask them there, you'll get an honest response rather than some corporate PR.
bridge1999@reddit
I once asked why is the company stock trading so low as the stock was sub $1.00/share
lost_in_life_34@reddit
i used to work at some places owned by PE and while the pay wasn't the highest and it was unorganized I had almost unlimited WFH and could take off for hours to take my kids to the dr when they got sick. now that my kids are older I work for the bankers
it's all a balance
ausername111111@reddit
I once interviewed somewhere that I had to do like five interviews for with different people back to back. That should have been my first clue something was up. Then on the third interview I met the IT team. Every single person was new, with the most senior person being there for about six months. They joked about how terrible the infrastructure was and how no one knew how anything worked. Then I went to the next interview and met the project managers. One in particular had it out for me and basically sunk the process. I wish I would have just told him to his face that if I had to work with him I wasn't interested in the position. Instead I sat there like an asshole and finished that interview and the next one, and then didn't get the job anyway.
I'm glad I didn't get it though, I would have hated it there, and that manager was a prick.
Specialist_Ad_712@reddit
When I see the term "Other duties as assigned" or any other of that verbiage flavor. I'll ask some clarifying questions. And if the answers don't pass the smell test. Yep, moving on.. :)
aust_b@reddit
I’ve learned the other duties as assigned can be a fuckin wild card in one of my jobs fresh out of college. We had to rent a uhaul, go pickup picnic tables, and then deliver them to each office. Two small guys that sit behind a computer all day expected to lift 300+ pound tables, what could go wrong. Looking back at it we were lucky that we didn’t injure ourselves, definitely should have had another hand or two, or just made the org pay for fucking movers.
Mobile-Lab4818@reddit
If they seem like assholes in the interview, it will be 100 times worse in a work setting and they’re doing you a favor by warning you.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
These are all questions to ask at the 2nd round interview if/when you get one.
Sack up and find out what you need to know.
sgt_Berbatov@reddit
If in the job description you read the phrases "fast paced" and "works well under pressure", "high pressure environment", "agile". Run the fuck away.
knightofargh@reddit
Vulture Capital is often a bad sign.
My red flags are the following phrases in interviews (or job descriptions even) “work hard, play hard environment”, “we’re like a family” and/or “fast-paced environment”. Those are all indicators of poor culture or insufficient staffing. Administratively if they don’t have pay bands for a position or lack a review process it’s also a red flag, but you often won’t see those until you start.
XxRaNKoRxX@reddit
Trust your gut.
I have moved on from 4 tech jobs over 16yrs. Each time my "gut" was telling me to start looking and move on. In every instance only a few months after I left there was something that happened that negatively effected the business or IT.
1st job - company shut down
2nd job - company shut down by government officials
3rd job - moved operations to Mexico
4th job - Owner stepped back and new CEO's pay was based on profitability. New CEO started cuts.
L3Niflheim@reddit
See if you can find people in or previously in similar jobs at the company and how long they were there for. Look for patterns on leaving dates. Look at glassdoor for the company if it exists, look for similar patterns in negative reviews e.g. calling out toxic managers or bad work/life balance etc.
UnRealxInferno_II@reddit
If the last guy left it's because he found better work elsewhere, pretty simple.
You're always gonna be coming in to unfuck someone else's mess unless it's a growth hire.
sryan2k1@reddit
None of those three things are always bad, you learn to read between the lines, and mergers can be a fun ride if you're willing.
I've seen a lot of cowboy admins rage quit in a merger because someone asked them to document their setup or follow procedures/change control.