Probably also farming and damming practices. Diverting billions of gallons (or however much) of water per year for plants that will get harvested and shipped across the country is effectively removing water from the local ecosystem. And then the downstream of every dam gets reduced to a trickle and the entire river valley / delta loses moisture.
Yeah I’d never looked at it this way, but lack of soil moisture is a massive driver of fire. How much moisture effectively gets ‘stolen’ from nature due to water collection is maybe measurable but not sure how.
Think in some specific locations it’d be more than others.
Probably not insignificant, though it’ll be a hard sell to any country to deliberately wind back it’s agricultural industry.
deserts arent growing. calfornias just built where they shouldnt have. homes right next to hills which have always burned. its population not climate change.
The root ball of the eucalyptus varieties that would be in California are located underground so they can regrow after bushfires.
Indigenous Australians used the weather when back burning. They would also incorporate hunting into this.
They would chase a mob of kangaroos into a trail that is inaccessible on the sides, forcing them in one direction. Once in the neck, they would start a grass fire, using the wind the push the fire through the valley. The animals that escaped the fire would be claimed by the group on the other side who were waiting to spear them.
Aboriginal Australians knew how to manage the land.
Back burning is making the bushfires worse if not done correctly.
[https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/prescribed-burning-could-be-making-aussie-forests-more-flammable](https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/prescribed-burning-could-be-making-aussie-forests-more-flammable)
Yep, too many people seem to not recognise that ‘prescribed burns’, ‘hazard reduction burns’, ‘cultural burns’ and ‘back burns’ are not the same thing and so they use the terms interchangeably when they’re really not.
So, this is a part of my job.
You’re wrong just fyi.
https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Bill-Gammage-Biggest-Estate-on-Earth-9781743311325
Read that and get back to me.
That book is pure fiction. He’s romanticised the indigenous culture to the point it’s fantasy. There was no wide scale land management it is far more likely to be small and localised.
If they had to burn a forest to catch a couple of kangaroos that’s only an effective strategy once every 2 years.
Was in the middle of buttfuck nowhere about 6 hrs outside Sydney, went into woolies to get a salad kit for $5 cus I had no money.
Found a pack of roo steaks for $4 and instantly bought it, went to my hotel and made the greatest meal I've ever cooked solo.
Still don't know where to get roo inside Syd tho
A fuckin true superfood that as an Aussie I'm absolutely baffled we don't capitalise on more.
Roos are actually considered a pest here so if you have the right licence you can get paid to go onto people's properties and just shoot them for control reasons but because they're a national animal, that for some reason means we shouldn't farm them.
Seriously though, super high in protein, low in fat, and tasty as fuck if you cook it right. Great for dogs to eat too since it's so lean.
Be me.
Australian.
Go to McDonald's for a tasty beef burger.
Seems kinda off today.
Find out on the news later that McDonald's was adding kangaroo meat to the beef.
Go again the next day and get an extra burger.
we still practice backburning where all the dry tinder gets burnt in a controlled environment so when it does get to summer there is less chance of fires breaking out
Also because of the Aboriginals spending 40000 years setting fire to the bush, most of our native flora requires fire to survive. Pretty sure at least one species of Eucalyptus requires fire to germinate it's seeds.
So even without bushfires being a thing, backburning is required for a healthy bushland
Which is why all the native megafauna went extinct shortly after the Aborigines' arrival, suspiciously close in time to records of massive burnings across the continent. They sure managed that land alright! Too bad for the animals.
I mean, the megafauna was fucking giant land crocodiles (Quinkana) and the equally giant megalania, a 7m long lizard with venomous razor teeth. I can understand why they didn't want to coexist with them. It's not like we Europeans did much better, see: Tasmanian Tiger. Oh and we also hunted the Aboriginal people of Tasmania to extinction.
I went to a healing ceremony at cape grim where the van diemen land company sealers ran women and children off cliffs while they massacred them. Used the same clubs they hunted for fur with to bash in the skulls of babies.
Still makes me sad.
I didn't downvote you? And yes it's absolutely horrific, I grew up in *very* regional Australia and have heard so many stories from elders, the good and the terrible, about the way they were treated by Europeans.
Megafauna on *every* continent went extinct shortly after human arrival. Only the African ones survived with any meaningful amount of diversity because they evolved alongside humans and could cope with them.
Except that’s not really how that works, and we’ve found Hominins (Humans and their ancestors) in almost every place in Africa. Why would Africa have fewer people on it than NA which had people for about 9000 years between colonization periods instead of MILLIONS of years
The fuck are you on about lol?
You know what happened around that time period too that may have effected things a little more than sustained back burning?
The end of the Holocene inter-glacial period.
Pinecone.
Right, humans are considered the main instigators of the megafaunal extinction in North America after they arrived, but how silly of me, the Aborigines in Asurralia lived in perfect harmony with nature and couldn't have contributed to the death of any of the megafauna.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_megafauna
Modern researchers, including Tim Flannery, think that with the arrival of early Aboriginal Australians (around 70,000~65,000 years ago), hunting and the use of fire to manage their environment may have contributed to the extinction of the megafauna.[3] Increased aridity during peak glaciation (about 18,000 years ago) may have also contributed, but most of the megafauna were already extinct by this time.[citation needed] Others, including Steve Wroe, note that records in the Australian Pleistocene are rare, and there is not enough data to definitively determine the time of extinction of many of the species, with many of the species having no confirmed record within the last 100,000 years. They suggest that many of the extinctions had been staggered over the course of the late Middle Pleistocene and early Late Pleistocene, prior to human arrival, due to climatic stress.[4]
Think before you speak buddy. Or do a little reading at least.
He's turning the aboriginals into noble savages.
It's a dumb, backwards thing people in civilization do - - they fetishize native beliefs and cultural practices, and treat those groups not as people but as concepts.
There are plenty of examples of native peoples fucking up their environments. Easter Island got deforested and the environment was ruined. There are countless sites around California where native Americans depleted clams and shellfish, due to overconsumption.
But you know, they're "natives" (doesn't really matter where they're native to) so of course they're seen as being one with nature
That’s a cool opinion to have for a queer yank to have on a concept they have no understanding of. 👍
I’ll let my Wurundjeri mob know that you think the and I’m sure they’ll take it into consideration.
Thanks again for your input.
You people really just can't stop obsessing over other people's genitals. You really thought you'd get taken seriously when you brought it up in a conversation about climate, didn't you? It's just normal to you to worry about genitals and you're completely surprised by all the mockery.
Hilarious every time. You freaks need to get a hobby or something.
What does me being queer have to do with anything?
Anyway, I didn't invent the idea of the noble savage. Tacitus (author of Agricola) apparently minted the idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage
If you want to argue that westerners don't view natives as noble savages, you're gonna have to argue over 2000 years worth of evidence. /shrug
> contributed
Not caused.
>not enough data to definitively determine the time of extinction of many of the species
>many of the extinctions had been staggered over the course of the late Middle Pleistocene and early Late Pleistocene, **prior to human arrival**
>New evidence based on accurate optically stimulated luminescence and uranium-thorium dating of megafaunal remains suggests that humans were the ultimate cause of the extinction for some of the megafauna in Australia.**[5]**
That paper, has nothing to do with humans, a quick glance at the summary states: "A rich source of fossils recently discovered in caves beneath the arid, treeless Nullarbor Plain of western Australia offers a rare glimpse of life in the continent in the Middle Pleistocene (between around 800,000 and 200,000 years ago), **long before humans arrived."**
Also love how you leave out the very next phrase:
>However, these results were **subsequently disputed**, with another study showing that 50 of 88 megafaunal species have no dates postdating the penultimate glacial maximum around 130,000 years ago
>only firm evidence for overlap of 8-14 megafaunal species with people
But sure, your theory is complety correct in a field of science where it isn't a settled matter. You know best.
Yep.
Now take all that bullshit you’ve quickly copied and pasted, assess it against what I said was happening during the transition out of the Holocene period and how that effected the pressure zones that persist in Aus currently and that ties into bushfires and the change from a tropical to a temperate climate.
Or are you so far fucked in the head, that you think several hundred nomadic tribes of roughly 50 tops managed what modern industrialists are only starting to manage?
I understand you want to be a contrarian despite that facts, but you don’t know what you’re taking about.
What kind of shitty contrarian, basically racist comment is this? Every other band of early humans around the world also killed off tons of their megafauna except maybe in Africa. What's your actual point? That you don't like Aboriginal people? Pointless.
Y'all MFs need to learn about mutual exclusivity.
We're talking about Australia here, so *gasp* the particular Australian natives are the ones to be talked about.
If this was about Canada instead, we'd be talking about Canada's natives.
It's not that fucking hard.
Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I could put the trees into a landfill where they're going to stay for millions of years, or I could burn it up and get a nice smoky smell in here and let that smoke go into the sky where it turns into stars.
there are eucalyptus trees in vietnam, although they've only been there about 25 years. almost every country on the coast in the world is growing these.
Legislation also contributed.
They knocked down 5 dams which held the reservoirs that fire departments used for water, and they cut the fire department budgets by MILLIONS, meaning they couldn't even organize controlled burns.
California was doomed ever since Lake Tulare was drained to make housing
> If a 2% decrease in budget means the fire department can't effectively organize, something is very wrong.
If you've been cutting critical services for decades every single year, a 2% drop can lead to, well whats happening right now.
Leaving out the fact that everyone leaves out facts to spin their points to spin your point? Nice.
In all seriousness though, there's still serious problems with California, strawman or not.
The difference in humidity held by air that is two degrees warmer is not sufficient to cause uncontrollable wildfires. This is from overbuilding, poor risk maintenance, and bad luck.
It was her birthday like a week ago, other than that no clue what she does anymore. She's not the medias punching bag that's for sure, too many clowns too go around these days.
Being an LA native amidst all this, I really only have one thought on the matter:
*Red sun, red sun over paradise
Red sun, red sun over paradise
Golden rays of the glorious sunshine
Setting down, such a blood-red light
Now the animals slowly retreat to the shadows, out of sight
Arid winds blow across the mountains
Giving flight to the birds of prey
In the distance, machines come to transform Eden, day by day
Only love is with us now
Something warm and pure
Find the peace within ourselves
No need for a cure
When the wind is slow and the fire's hot
The vulture waits to see what rots
Oh, how pretty, all the scenery
This is nature's sacrifice
When the air blows through with a brisk attack
The reptile tail ripped from its back
When the sun sets, we will not forget the red sun over paradise*
That's not really the cause of the wildfires though... Eucalyptus are horrible trees, but they're mostly used as ornamentals here. Wildfires typically start in our chaparral or scrubland because someone did something stupid and the wildfires get out of hand because of the insane dry cycles that have been hitting us lately.
is this why i’ve noticed so many eucalyptus trees in californian tv shows? i grew up knowing that gum trees are endemic to australia, and then in the last 10 years or so i’ve noticed them in photos and videos shot in california and i thought “maybe they have them there also?”
OP is shit posting. Eucalyptus was planted as a source of lumber and fire wood.
From an 1871 publication:
> "Of the Eucalypti, E.
globulus is very common in California,
and easily cultivated: it is the Blue
Gum of Victoria and Tasmania. This
tree is of extremely rapid growth and
attains a height of 400 feet,
furnishing a first-class wood;
shipbuilders get keels of this timber
120 feet long; besides this they use it
extensively for planking and many other
parts of the ship, and it is considered
to be generally superior to American Rock Elm."
History of Eucalypts in California - https://www.fs.usda.gov/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr069/psw_gtr069_01_groenendaal.pdf
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