TheaterFire

BMW set a new sales record in the US for 2024 with 371.346 vehicles sold.

Posted by Imakeshittycardesign@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 319 comments

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319 Comments

Soloroadtrip@reddit

I bought my 2025 m240i in oct. ‘24 so I’m one of them. For me BMW finally having a reliable power train moved the needle. I always liked their interiors…but w/o reliability I was never inclined to buy.  The B58/zf8 powertrain is fantastic and absolutely worth the price of admission. 
View on Reddit #54752974

IndependentYear8183@reddit

BMW has the world record for longest dinut/drift. It's nutso.
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AdamKralic@reddit

I bought my first bmw this year…2025 m240i xdrive. I love it. quite Fast, well made and filled with tech…there really isn’t much to complain about. I wouldn’t mind if they waved a magic wand and made it exactly like it is now…but somehow 300 lbs lighter. But…the car feels lighter when driving than it is.
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BloodDK22@reddit

Curious as to how many enthusiast BMWs were sold. Like, two door, sport specific vehicles.
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YanxiaoCao@reddit

I didn't get the figure in the US. Globally, 206,582 M models have been sold, and 66,805 are 'true' M power.
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DocAtDuq@reddit

I ordered a 2025 M3 at the end of July for October delivery. I had to go to a different state to get an allocation because the two high volume dealers in my Midwest city that got 1 allocation a month had a 3 person wait list at both dealers. There are a few broker services out there to help you find order allocations since they can be tough to come by.
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yawetag1869@reddit

The M2 has been selling like hotcakes for years
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BloodDK22@reddit

Good - the 2017 through 2021 models are on my short list to own. Yes, I hate the styling of the newer ones.
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Kaner16@reddit

F87 M2CS is the absolute pinnacle of modern BMWs. Just wish it had an s58 and it'd be an instant buy. I wonder if someone has done an engine swap yet
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_BEER_@reddit

The S55 is way underrated imo. Sure you can't push as much power as the S58 but with RWD only in the M2 it's already a handful stock. Makes S58 power on a stage 1 tune as well.
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Kaner16@reddit

Agreed, it's no slouch (and arguably sounds better), but the b58/s58 is just a masterpiece already.
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BloodDK22@reddit

They are lovely. Me wants one. :)
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_BEER_@reddit

Pick one up man. Everytime I get to drive my buddies N55 M2 its a shit ton of fun. The Comp isn't that much more expensive, but is more costly if something breaks, sounds way worse too. Drive both and I'm sure you'll pick either of them up.
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BigOldButt99@reddit

I'm so annoyed that they won't go down in price. A used 2021 m2 comp is like 60k. Like motherfucker that's almost what it cost new 4 years ago!! >:(
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MembershipNo2077@reddit

Used cars in general don't go down in price until they get quite a few miles on them unless they are EVs.
View on Reddit #44757436

BigOldButt99@reddit

That's not really a fair comparison lol. The 1M was one of the lowest volume production BMWs of all time. Basically all cars, even sporty, enthusiast M cars and Porsches used to depreciate until covid. I bought a E92 M3 in showroom condition for like 25k a few years before that, sticker price of about 70k.
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Bortjort@reddit

Frankly I'm delighted
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BloodDK22@reddit

I hear ya. It seems like you can score an earlier comp version for under $50K or the standard M2 which is still perfectly splendid in the $40's easily. I have one on my radar for sure. I love the styling & performance. Reminds me of my beloved E30 325is coupe from years back. :)
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BigOldButt99@reddit

I've been searching for a OG n55 M2 for a while, but again the prices just seem too silly for me. 40k for a nice car, but without even a S series M engine. If they were closer to 30k I would have already picked one up, I'm looking to replace my e36 M3 coupe. I love the e36 but it's getting a bit old and clunky, it's nearly 30 years old with 176k miles.
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AnonUserAccount@reddit

So, BMW and Lexus had record years while cheap vehicle sales are also on the rise? Yeah, the middle class is fucked. You’re either rich or poor in this country now.
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_Pho_@reddit

>You’re either rich or poor in this country now. Nah, what you're describing as "rich" here is just the middle class. The upper class has left this dichotomy completely lol
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College_Prestige@reddit

You also can't forget used vehicles last much longer now, so you basically split the market into 3 segments: One: poor people who insist on new vehicles get the cheapest crossover they can find Two: people who want to finally splurge get the best new vehicle they can Three: everyone else gets a used vehicle The ratio of used vehicles sold to new vehicles is roughly 2:1, so it's basically a stable market.
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nefthep@reddit

Yeah, that's all this news is to me: just continuing evidence of the growing wealth divide.
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_Pho_@reddit

Two key components here IMO: 1. Reliability for BMW has gotten a lot better. A lot of people (myself inc) were waiting to pull the trigger on luxury sports cars because of that. Consider that they used to be next to Mercedes in terms of reliability, which is to say the bottom quintile of makes, and now they're in the top quintile. Quite impressive, feels like they stole a bunch of industry secrets from Toyota during their collab on the Supra lol. 2. A non-clown EV portfolio - the i4/i5 are excellent from what I hear and the iX is probably the nicest interior of any car I've been in. Selling them as actual luxury products instead of the half baked environmentalism/economy angle has been great.
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KingMelray@reddit

How is BMW breaking records in the worst economy ever?🤔🤔🤔
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JayBee58484@reddit

Not everyone is broke of course and even then people regardless of income at times will still throw themselves into expensive lease or finance payments to say they have a new car it's just consumerism nothing particularly new. My gfs best friend is paying 1400 for her suburban while the husband is shelling out 1100 for his truck.
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KingMelray@reddit

💀 Oof, not one but TWO 84 trucks (or SUV in the other case) - $84,000+ -84 month loan or longer -8.4% interest or higher -worth $8400 when you finally sell it -complain about gas 84 times per week.
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JayBee58484@reddit

Yea I imagine that's exactly how it's going down but whatever works for them I guess lol Car loans are silly nowadays
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Zacks_hill@reddit

People with money, tend to make more money when everyone else gets poorer
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AFB27@reddit

The numbers speak for themselves, people clearly like the new designs. I don't, so after the G80, I'll probably be off BMWs for good. Not going to force myself to buy something I don't visually like over brand loyalty
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JayBee58484@reddit

Yea thats about how it went for me really wanted to get a G82 but I could not get myself to like the car, so I settled for the Asian BMW lmao.
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k_dubious@reddit

BMW’s engineering team is absolutely crushing it these days. Their design team, is, uh, not.
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Ancient_Persimmon@reddit

>BMW’s engineering team is absolutely crushing it these days. Cries in 5500lb M5.
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LeChodeRocks@reddit

If the M5 could just retain the automotive purity of something like say a modern day Civic Si they'd really be in business.
View on Reddit #44768434

JayBee58484@reddit

F90 was completely fine as a former owner, tech bloat is just off the walls with this new gen.
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Ancient_Persimmon@reddit

They have very different philosophies on how to maintain their iconic IP, though in fairness, it looks like the Neue Klasse team are mostly BMW purists.
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Juicyjackson@reddit

Their design team is crushing it for normal people. Regular people love the styling of them.
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jotunblod92@reddit

I'm seeing increasingly more new 5 series in my city. Most of the drivers were >50 years. Regular older people who have money really love the new style.
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Secuter@reddit

At least in Denmark it's often regular well-off people who drive BMW. I'd say from mid thirties to fifties.
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acog@reddit

It’s crazy that you’re being downvoted. The brand has record sales, obviously buyers like the styling.
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iamheero@reddit

Or they like the interiors and test drive and dealer experience and improved reliability metrics. There is more to a car than just the looks, and maybe some people are OK with a car that only looks good from some angles if all else is good.
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Juicyjackson@reddit

That's possible. But what if looks are completely subjective, the new BMW's stand out like crazy on the road which some people like. They don't look like just another Audi or another Mercedes, each one of them looks so vastly different, and they stand out like crazy.
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iamheero@reddit

Certainly, plenty of people are also OK with (or enamored of) the looks, and some models are worse than others. I've come around to a certain degree on the 4 series as well, and now it's the weight more than the looks of the beaver teeth that turns me off of them (and the difficulty finding cooled seats).
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RustyNK@reddit

There are so many people out there saying the auto industry is in big trouble for abandoning cheaper cars in favor of more expensive ones that have higher profit margins. Sure doesn't seem like that's the case.
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JayBee58484@reddit

Yes because people are throwing themselves into obscene amounts of debt just look at the average car payment lol Two things can be true
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andrewjaekim@reddit

If you look at the data, the median age of a new car buyer is rapidly growing. this checks out because the wealth inequality in America. The wealth has been moving with a certain age group as young buyers struggle. It’s also a main driver in why SUVs continue to dominate and the death of the cheap sports car. The only people with disposable income now are 50+ years old and it’s much easier getting in and out of SUVs.
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gumol@reddit

how quickly is it growing?
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andrewjaekim@reddit

https://www.mekkographics.com/vehicle-buyers-by-age/
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College_Prestige@reddit

Sounds like gen x and boomers are hoarding wealth
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Civilianscum@reddit

Early 40s here. We are closing in on 200k a year in a LCOL area, family of 4. A "Average" new car price of 49k (50k+ after taxes and fees) never made sense to us. Our budget was 35k so we picked up a used 2021 Highlander XLE with 29k miles for 33k. No way in hell will we ever pay 1k a month for car payments.
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DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit

Apparently, [the average new car price is now down to $45k](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1hsx1pm/average_us_transaction_price_for_new_vehicles_is/), continuing its slow decline from its peak 2 years ago of ~$50k.
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Civilianscum@reddit

According to COX it's 49k. "According to the most recent data from Cox Automotive, the average transaction price for new cars is $48,978. That’s down 3% from the peak of $49,929 in December 2022. New car prices increased slightly in December. New car selling prices have held steady for the past year, as shown in the graph from KBB above." https://caredge.com/guides/new-car-price-trends-in-2025#:~:text=Key%20Takeaways%20*%20The%20average%20price%20for,new%20car%20prices%20in%20the%20months%20ahead.
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Less-Amount-1616@reddit

It's also the case that the market has shifted such that the value proposition for a cheap new car just isn't there for someone cost-conscious given the longevity of used cars. 30, 40 years ago a used car would often approaching dead at 100k miles, now it's more likely to be able to driven another 100k-150k+ miles without major engine issue. So that's a real pickle for manufacturers, because if you did make another $20k car it's not like you can offer the person just trying to get from point A to B reliably all that much versus a used car for $5k,$10k, $15k. So instead you go after the person who is buying a new car to have a *nice car,* with nicer materials, bigger engines, more cameras, luxury features and touches. And then that's bumping up the price, but fine and acceptable because you're trying to come up with things that just didn't really exist in the used market at any scale.
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TheSkyline35@reddit

US market is something else. Your buying power there is hugely greater. Looking at the Europe state, it's not going so well
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historicusXIII@reddit

Except Belgium, the only country where BMW is the best selling car brand.
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Less-Amount-1616@reddit

Yeah Europe's poor overall, stuff is expensive, incomes are relatively low and cars have been taxed and regulated to the point that you have to be downright rich to avoid really luxurious cars Americans see as merely nice.
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rspndngtthlstbrnddsr@reddit

imagine actually believing this
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Hunt3rj2@reddit

It's not strictly untrue though. In a lot of western Europe they're effectively taxing people out of owning an old diesel car which is the most common option out there. And anything bigger than a Golf is just kind of impractical. Taxes in general on cars are crazy high. Gasoline is taxed heavily, diesel less so. I don't know how people afford cars out there, much less random Dodge Rams hanging out in the middle of Amsterdam. There's also generally speaking nowhere near the kind of salary/discretionary income that you see in wealthier areas of the US. Your average FAANG tech bro is making 200k USD/yr. Sure, they can't ever get sick and there's no public transit and the built environment is one big liminal space but you can afford a Model 3 easily because we subsidize driving to such an extreme degree. "Free" parking, cheap registration, low car-specific taxes, near zero toll roads, almost every part of American society is built to diffuse the cost of driving.
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Less-Amount-1616@reddit

What's untrue about this? 
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aoifhasoifha@reddit

> Sure doesn't seem like that's the case. As long as you're only talking about BMW in America, you're absolutely correct. If you're talking about the actual car industry in the whole world, you're very wrong.
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matthieuC@reddit

it's more than everybody wants to sell high price cars, but few have the quality and reputation to do it
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Flamingi123@reddit

Well tbh BMW is the odd one out in the auto industry. They are one of the only legacy automakers where sales numbers are relatively stable. But still they had to give out profit warnings twice this year and the profit share will miss their goal corridor of 8-10% by a substantial margin. Funnily enough, their current well standing is mainly caused by them refusing to go full electric, but the way forward seems to be a 100% bet on the Neue Klasse, an ev only platform.
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AncefAbuser@reddit

Sales are stable because BMW shits on their own residuals to get you in a 3 year lease just to turn around and CPO that lease again and double dip, then when you bring back that CPO lease they finally triple dip one last sale. BMW is the only luxury automaker who realizes the value game is overrated and moving units is the only metric that matters. Just look at the monthly prices. BMW commands a significant DECREASE over Benz and Audi while offering cars that even objectively are class leading.
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RandyJackson@reddit

This was true about 5 years ago. This is no longer true. Not sure where you’re getting your information
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koopa00@reddit

I think those are way more beneficial to privately owned dealerships rather than BMW but overall I agree.
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AncefAbuser@reddit

True. The first two sales make corporate a lot of money between the car note, any add ons, the warranties. BMW is still the only German brand that embraces the lease lifestyle. It is actually insane when you compare leases to Audi or Benz and see how much more the comparables are for no obvious reason. Benz in particular huffs glue for what they charge on a note.
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iPoopAtChu@reddit

I mean Lexus also hit record sales figures...
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strongmanass@reddit

I think those missed targets are the result of the long-standing brake recall that BMW couldn't address because the supplier didn't have the parts.
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D-Fence@reddit

Brake recall was over 300.000 units they couldn’t deliver to customers, and the China automotive market collapsed on all automakers.
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Flamingi123@reddit

Yes that was the tip of the iceberg. But even without the recall the numbers were nowhere near the targets. Without the recall and strong sales in Q4 they maybe would've managed to get close, but the sales fell down even further instead of picking up. So even without the recall they wouldn't have managed to get there.
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Agent_Giraffe@reddit

It’s not ev only, it’s just specifically designed to incorporate ev drivetrains fully. There will still be gas/hybrid cars.
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Flamingi123@reddit

Neue Klasse is ev only. They still will be offering ICE and PHEVs based on CLAR (which they are still further developing and improving).
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Agent_Giraffe@reddit

TIL!
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pithy_pun@reddit

I think they’re benefiting from being essentially the default premium/luxe option. Around where I am it seems the defaults are: * affordable ICE/hybrid: Toyota then Hyundai/Kia * premium/luxe ICE/hybrid: BMW  * EV: Tesla, although that seems to be turning a bit lately. Especially towards Hyundai/Kia on the more affordable side and BMW on the premium side
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tiagojpg@reddit

Yep, they’re more expensive and they’re selling MORE! Dang.
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GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit

[And the total outstanding auto debt has almost DOUBLED in the past decade](https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/debt-statistics/), with [loan delinquency rates at an all time high](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/rising-auto-loan-delinquencies-and-high-monthly-payments-20240926.html). It's almost like a lot of people can only afford these expensive cars by taking out loans they shouldn't be. Dang.
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ukcats12@reddit

Sales numbers doesn't automatically mean a strong company overall though. BMW's stock is down like 25% over the past year while the DAX is up 20.
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Heisenbugg@reddit

It is absolutely the case, even your example of BMW has sold less vehicles worldwide in 2024 than in 2023.
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Banana_Leclerc12@reddit

but but i was told in here that they were going to go bankrupt because the new ones are ugly and dont offer brown manual diesel wagons?
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NCSUGrad2012@reddit

Once again this sub is terrible at making predictions lol
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tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit

I can’t wait for the new Jags to explode in popularity because no one here belongs in the demographic they’re selling to 
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Less-Amount-1616@reddit

What demographic is Jaguar now selling to? I can't tell.
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tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit

JLR’s current customers: The wealthy who buy cars as fashion statements and athlete’s/CEO’s wives. They actually didn’t change demos at all.
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JayBee58484@reddit

They couldn't even sell to the geezers that typically buy them lmao
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historicusXIII@reddit

No one bought a Jag as a fashion statement. They're old people cars.
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Less-Amount-1616@reddit

>The wealthy who buy cars as fashion statements But that's too broad of a demographic to describe precisely what Jaguar is after that Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls, German luxury brands and Italian exotics aren't already getting at.  Up until 10 minutes ago I'd have said it's for 50-80 year olds who want something luxurious and refined without a huge performance focus but also out of the mainstream than a typical German car maker without the cost of something really high end like an Aston or a Bentley. >athlete’s/CEO’s wives. Those are driving Land Rovers and G-Wagons and Cayennes or something more exotic.
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Shneedly@reddit

The same people that bought the VW Bug, but just richer
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HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit

The media just would go alllll silent on it and move onto their next scapegoat hate target hit job. The manosphere podcasters / proselytizers - "Real men don't wear shorts" "wear a jacket in high summer to show your sigma wolf status" "heatstroke is a good thing really" Idiocracy was a toned down documentary, we are WAY past that level of stupid now....
View on Reddit #44751345

BattlePrune@reddit

Are you ok?
View on Reddit #44752866

HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit

Are you? Is anyone?
View on Reddit #44765350

Titan0917@reddit

Seek help
View on Reddit #44755293

tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit

People who say “idiocracy is a documentary” are not real people
View on Reddit #44754892

wacale6681@reddit

It pays well to bet on reddit being wrong on just about everything.
View on Reddit #44735286

andrewjaekim@reddit

It’s hilarious how often Reddit gets it wrong. Currently the subs are stunned that Tacoma is the best selling truck it’s in class. There were so many doomers on Reddit saying “Toyota is out of their mind with these prices”, “the 4-banger won’t sell”, and “Toyotas reliability woes are going to affect them” Meanwhile the Tacoma had its best November sales of all time.
View on Reddit #44740903

m1a2c2kali@reddit

I honestly thought I was gonna see the same amount of cyber trucks and hummers on the road. Turns out I was very wrong. See those cyber trucks nearly everywhere.
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HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit

Who said people had taste? The world of fashion reveals that every single day.... Could also be that many are tacitly saying the quiet part out loud, the car version of "I'm not racist but...."
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OvONettspend@reddit

Or maybe because it’s a cool car that’s not the same boring overstyled blob
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JayBee58484@reddit

Brother what LMFAO it's called opinion
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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]
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AutoModerator@reddit

Unfortunately your comment has been removed because it contains a link to a delisted domain. This is almost always due to spam from the domain. Please use a different source. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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gpatterson7o@reddit

Yeah I have a 3rd Gen V6. This will be my last Tacoma.
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require_borgor@reddit

The Tacoma's YOY sales are down 18%
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Teutonic-Tonic@reddit

Because they didn’t ramp production up until end of the first quarter.
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andrewjaekim@reddit

That’s if you’re only reading headlines. Look at the data and the Tacoma had production ramp up. Now that production has stabilized Tacoma just hit their best ever November sale s
View on Reddit #44750927

andrewjaekim@reddit

That’s if you’re only reading headlines. Look at the data and the Tacoma had production ramp up
View on Reddit #44749871

bikedork5000@reddit

Not surprising. People who wanted a new Tacoma in 2022-2023 would have had a decent reason to wait for the new one. Let's see how those numbers look the next 2-3 years.
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OvONettspend@reddit

That’s because Tacoma drivers are a cult filled with useless middle managers that live in a suburb outside Seattle who only drive it to work , rei and Costco
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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

/r/bmw is probably beside themselves that their doom and gloom narrative is fiction
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NCSUGrad2012@reddit

90% of posts in that sub are people complaining about one of 3 things. - no wagons in the US - the grilles and the new designs - that they can’t order crazy colors
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bundeywundey@reddit

You forgot the M colors on grills that aren't M cars.
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JayBee58484@reddit

Man i see that far too often and it's always on some ancient 340i
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AncefAbuser@reddit

1) They weren't buying the wagons to begin with 2) Might be the only valid critique, the now not current gen design language just ain't it 3) They couldn't afford the crazy colors to begin with
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jeebidy@reddit

The new bucktooth grilles are pretty off-putting :(
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AncefAbuser@reddit

I don't look at the car when I drive it. Its ugliness is the worlds problem.
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r00000000@reddit

I swear I'm not a contrarian but I'm not too into cars and I feel like I'm on crack bc a lot of the things Reddit thinks are ugly, like the Cybertruck or new BMW grilles, I think actually look good. I'm mixed on the grilles on the SUVs though, it's fine on their coupes/sedans but I feel like it leaves too much empty/unbalanced space on the sides of the SUV faces? Idk how to explain it.
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JayBee58484@reddit

If that's what you like go for it
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guy_incognito784@reddit

You’re not crazy. The designs are polarizing on purpose. Naturally some will like them and some won’t.
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Yankee831@reddit

It’s ok you’re not going crazy, It’s called a personal opinion. Reddit doesn’t like those.
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jeebidy@reddit

It’s a good philosophy, save for those moments where you are walking to your car thinking “damn - that looks good”. Couldn’t do that with the recent snouts.
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AncefAbuser@reddit

That's why I always approach all my cars from behind.
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DemoN_M4U@reddit

You are right, but if people buy cars like multipla, cybertruck, I don't think we will ever see a car, that will sell poor only because of how it looks.
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Larcya@reddit

Everyone loves to talk about how they wish Wagon's were still around. Despite non of those same people ever actually putting thier money where their mouth is. So Wagon's don't get made. Same for brown manuals. Car Enthusiasts will complain about some brand new care despite themselves driving a 20 year old Used piece of shit and the fact that they will never be able to afford whatever car they are talking about.
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Familiar-Can7792@reddit

I drive a 20 year old piece of shit E39...daily, and contrary to what ever anybody else is saying its probably guys like me driving in these piece of shit cars that motivated 370k people to buy a Beamer.....because they are 20 years old and still look amazing and still run amazing. Personally i think the 5 series E39 is one of the most attractive BMWs to ever grace public hands, especially when the right mods are implemented to accent the existing design
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footpole@reddit

I had a coworker in the early naughts who was always complaining about the new cars being shit. He was in this BMW club and obviously none of the losers could afford a car newer than ten years which is why they were all seen as shit. His car was so rusted the yearly inspection dude put a hammer through the floor and that was apparently not an issue with the car.
View on Reddit #44765570

andrewjaekim@reddit

You’ll often see on r/BMW. *posts a pic of the last gen M car* and captions it *the last true m car*. Then the top comment is usually “mom says I get to post this next”
View on Reddit #44741384

AndroidUser37@reddit

I remember when the E46 was the best, and the E90 was a fat pig. Nowadays the E90 is amazing due to V8 and hydraulic steering, while the F30 and later are "soulless" or something, idk. I'm sure in 5-10 years people will be gushing over the F30 for its tamer looks and DCT or something.
View on Reddit #44805243

JayBee58484@reddit

I think the F80/F82 was about as good as it'll get for BMW design wise sucks the S55 sounds like a lawn mower tho lol
View on Reddit #45019443

Dark_Knight2000@reddit

It’s already happening. People have already decided that the F80 M3 and the G80 with the manual are now the peak of BMW and the last true great M cars because the next M3 will be hybrid and heavy and probably auto only.
View on Reddit #44868256

Skodakenner@reddit

They used to say the old one was better looking since the e28 5 series
View on Reddit #44768057

ryguy32789@reddit

They are correct
View on Reddit #44909727

Unspec7@reddit

As the primary r/BMW mod, I actually don't see much complaints about wagons and crazy colors. 99% of complaints are about the new designs. There's also the posts where someone goes "I got a new BMW and like the design" and people shitting on the OP for daring to not conform.
View on Reddit #44761014

SomestrangerinMiami@reddit

Owner of a G87 here, can confirm. 😂
View on Reddit #44908565

Larcya@reddit

I actually love how someone liking something pisses the morons off. Like Bruh at least they went out and bought the car. Meanwhile your ass is probably driving a 2001 Toyota Camry that had the Catalytic converter stolen.
View on Reddit #44771864

guy_incognito784@reddit

One notable time on /r/bmw someone was giving OP shit on one of the “just got a new BMW” threads saying how ugly it is and when I mentioned how rude that was they then began making fun of the cars in my flair saying how they are the real BMW enthusiast and everyone else are just badge whores who can’t drive and what not. A quick peek at their post history quickly showed that they were in their 30s, lived in Boston with their parents and recently purchased a used E90 328i that was about 20 years old that they recently got into an accident in and did t have the money to fix it so they drove around in a primer front bumper. So yeah that’s the kind of people who tend to really enjoy gatekeeping.
View on Reddit #44783723

Beerspaz12@reddit

> A quick peek at their post history quickly showed that they were in their 30s, lived in Boston with their parents and recently purchased a used E90 328i that was almost 20 years old that they recently got into an accident in and didn’t have the money to fix it so they drove around in a primer front bumper. ... its only 10... :'(
View on Reddit #44861711

Dark_Knight2000@reddit

2007 was almost 20 years ago. We’re just old now
View on Reddit #44868328

NCSUGrad2012@reddit

Small world I’m at mod at r/BMWM3 Yeah, I was being most facetious. I also see those posts too. Lol
View on Reddit #44762821

epihocic@reddit

Huh, that’s exactly what r/audi complains about too.
View on Reddit #44774879

cheezturds@reddit

Well they both have the same problem. At least BMW still overs manuals.
View on Reddit #44784128

epihocic@reddit

As an Audi owner, I can wholeheartedly say Audi has way more problems than BMW.
View on Reddit #44787334

cheezturds@reddit

They’ve yet to make their vehicles as ugly as BMW but they appear to be on their way.
View on Reddit #44790458

hughcifer-106103@reddit

They make up for that with significantly worse reliability
View on Reddit #44852184

RandyJackson@reddit

Most of them are kids driving an E30 and couldn’t afford a new one anyway.
View on Reddit #44780867

cheezturds@reddit

Id 100% take an E30 over what BMW is making now
View on Reddit #44784241

RandyJackson@reddit

So brave
View on Reddit #44784370

UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit

I mean I agree on the 3rd one, when I looked at them 95% of the cars on the lot were white black or silver
View on Reddit #44771354

bgroins@reddit

90% huh?
View on Reddit #44751539

Unspec7@reddit

I'd say that 90% of *complaint* posts are about the new designs, but in general most of the posts are pretty typical car posts. e.g. new car, what mods should I do, I have an issue help, etc.
View on Reddit #44761135

bgroins@reddit

*60% of the time it works every time.*
View on Reddit #44761225

Yankee831@reddit

You forgot demanding gimmick laden $10k Chinese EV’s
View on Reddit #44757989

StockAL3Xj@reddit

So same thing as this sub then?
View on Reddit #44751562

Banana_Leclerc12@reddit

they would implode after seeing my 118i
View on Reddit #44848882

tyw214@reddit

um... i think if you read only r/cars you'd also think BMW is going to go out of business any moment in US. cuz every single BMW falls apart after 3 years, and nobody should be buying them is the only advice this sub has for people that asks about BMW rofl.
View on Reddit #44803960

Porshuh@reddit

I've never seen anybody in this subreddit post that "BMW has lost their way" or something or other without being swiftly corrected by 109158103958 dissenting commenters. In fact, most times, it's not even somebody saying BMWs won't sell. They just say the current generation is ugly and numb to drive. And yet they still receive the canned response, "erm,,, turns out consumers don't care about those things chud!" when that's not even the point they were making in the first place. Yes, it turns out BMWs can be ugly and gimmicky and still be best-sellers at a time where Mercedes-Benz seems to only step on rakes.
View on Reddit #44745854

Salty-Dog-9398@reddit

Unpopular truth: the way to achieve mainstream popularity is to stop being weird and do popular things (build SUVs and other appliance cars)
View on Reddit #44799242

MembershipNo2077@reddit

BMW has *a lot* of fans that for them isn't "damn, this is a cool car" but "damn, this is the megacorp I *identify* with." So even slight criticisms can get quite an angry response.
View on Reddit #44756941

Bortjort@reddit

I'm with you I think MB's uh struggles have a lot to do with this, in addition to this sub basically wanting the opposite of what the broad market wants.
View on Reddit #44755901

trolololoz@reddit

Means we are about to have some of the greatest times in US history here for the next four years.
View on Reddit #44797805

thatgymdude@reddit

I have actually applied this to financial and investing decisions. Literally do the opposite of whatever Reddit tells you and you cant go wrong.
View on Reddit #44768852

kog@reddit

Remember when Netflix failed as a business because they cracked down on account sharing? /s
View on Reddit #44757213

MembershipNo2077@reddit

Damn, here I was betting that GM was finally go bankrupt based on reddit shitposting. Damn you sales reports!
View on Reddit #44756549

DM725@reddit

The new designs are uglier and the head of design left/was pushed out 3 months ago. That being said, I think the improved overall reliability and performance from the B48/B58/S58 are the key reasons.
View on Reddit #44742395

hughcifer-106103@reddit

He wasn’t pushed out and didn’t leave. He took over design for Rolls Royce.
View on Reddit #44852461

DM725@reddit

So going to Rolls Royce isn't leaving BMW?
View on Reddit #44852920

hughcifer-106103@reddit

No. BMW owns RR, he's just taking over the highest-margin division.
View on Reddit #44854890

Jaxraged@reddit

Ive seen more comments like this than ones youre complaining about.
View on Reddit #44758615

OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit

Most of the chatter like that is in /r/bmw. …by people who don’t own BMWs nor intend to buy one.
View on Reddit #44848687

PattyRoyBurner@reddit

Seriously. The “hindsight nerd” is peak reddit.
View on Reddit #44810422

Banana_Leclerc12@reddit

i have seen more "the last true m car" about various models than what i said
View on Reddit #44765358

Jaxraged@reddit

And under those there are 7 people saying "REDDIT DOESNT REFLECT THE PUBLIC"
View on Reddit #44766120

Multifaceted-Simp@reddit

The lease deals on beamers were insane this year, cheaper than they've ever been, and they count those as sales. 
View on Reddit #44788947

Either-Durian-9488@reddit

They said the same thing when Porsche announced the cayenne
View on Reddit #44787013

graviousishpsponge@reddit

I really wish the top comment for the weekly bmw post isn't this. We get it the enthusiasts live in a bubble and are out of touch. Really want a bmw 4 or 5 after college though.
View on Reddit #44764318

pon_d@reddit

Imagine how many more they’d have sold if they didn’t look like a slapped fishwife!
View on Reddit #44734681

Flamingi123@reddit

They wouldn’t. The 4 series sells MORE than the 3 series. And that’s not because of the M4 and also not because of the coupe or convertible. More people are choosing the 4 GC over the 3 sedan. Guess people like the pig snout after all…
View on Reddit #44734824

koopa00@reddit

> The truth of course is the i4 skewing the numbers. I think the i4's have sold well but overall there are twice as many 4 series options as the 3. For the 3, you have the sedan and the M3. For the 4, you have the coupe, gran coupe, i4, and M4. I really haven't seen a lot of 4 series on the road other than a handful of coupes and a ton of i4's. It would be interesting to see them broken down further.
View on Reddit #44756702

DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit

Yeah, it's not as apples to apples as one might think. There are more 4-series models than 3-series. I'd love to see a 3-series sedan to 4-series coupe sales comparison, without the M versions, or GC, or I4 mucking up the numbers.
View on Reddit #44759292

Flamingi123@reddit

You can generally take the M3/M4 out of the equation, their sales numbers are negligible in comparison to the volume models. Last time I checked 4 series GC was like 85% of the 4 series volume. So now the numbers: 3 series sales are 31k, 4 series sales are 42k, with i4s being over half of that at 23k. That means there are 19k conventional 4 series with about 85% of them being GC, it comes out to around 16k. Ok well, with all things considered its more looking like 31k 3 sedans to 16k 4 GC. Seems like the ratio is 66/33
View on Reddit #44757863

DM725@reddit

The 4 series sales were pretty surprising. I think it was second only to the X3?
View on Reddit #44742509

Flamingi123@reddit

Numbers are available online. First two places by a large margin are X5 and X3 with 72k and 68k units. Followed by the 4 series with 42k units and then the 3 series with 31k units.
View on Reddit #44758768

Banana_Leclerc12@reddit

Tbf i love how the 4 series looks other than the grille, it really has a great side profile and bacl
View on Reddit #44735635

Flamingi123@reddit

Electric mini is super fun to drive. Really go cart feeling on the next level (JCW is arriving in feb, but I had the SE for a couple months). Material is okayish, quality as in how well it is put together could be better, but I attribute a lot of it to it being first model year and not built by BMW themselves, but by Great Wall Motors in China. I expect them to address those issues quickly, so later model years should be better. Range could be better, I was getting ~400km city driving in the summer. But let’s be honest, its a car made for the city, so that is totally fine. Software sucks ass big time, a lot of crashes and weird glitches, feels like it was rushed out and unfinished. But I also expect that to get better with the coming software updates. In total I‘d say model year 26/27 and later should be very compelling cars given the correct pricing.
View on Reddit #44736298

Banana_Leclerc12@reddit

i have been considering an aceman or a 3 door for around city driving ever since they broke cover, i wanted to buy an older se but i do a 150 160 km trip every week and i dont think it can do that trip without charging along the way, sad to see the software being terrible though i assume its not idrive based like older minis. Also the jcw is the trim level right? The performance ev one isnt out yet i think?
View on Reddit #44736733

Flamingi123@reddit

I drove the Mini SE (218hp), which had the JCW trim with full options, that one is out since like beginning of 24 iirc. On order at the moment and due to arrive is my Mini JCW (258hp), the full fledged JCW. The software is based on the iDrive 9 system found in the FWD BMWs, but with a heavy reskin. Not like the older minis where it was just the same system. I‘d recommend the Mini starting with model year 26, I think they will have fixed most hardware issues by then. I guess there will still be some bugs left in the software, but those will probably be fixed and pushed through remote upgrade during ownership. I’m working for BMW, so with employee discounts and rent programs it doesn’t make sense for me to get anything else, but if you’re looking for a smallish city E.V., for other options I’d recommend to have a look at the new EV smart (really nice cars and reasonably priced), the VW ID3/Cupra equivalent (with the facelift they introduced the GTX and software works now as well) and the new Renault R5 seems to be quite good as well.
View on Reddit #44737257

Banana_Leclerc12@reddit

jeez even worse materials than 3 door, thats just sad i wanted a clubman but the pricing for new ones were idiotic to say the least where i live (used ones arent any better) with the ev tax incentives the aceman will be attractively priced, unfortunately they dont sell the id3 here, but they sell the 200hp born for the same price as the ev countryman i may just get the renault 5, i sat in one and it was great, so was the tech in it, certainly better than the clio which i worked on lmao.
View on Reddit #44737815

Flamingi123@reddit

Its a genius move to be honest. Under the metal housing they are the same car, so what they did was create one with conservative styling and one with really out there styling to get sales in two target groups instead of either focusing on only one or not hitting it on the head for both groups. Same thing they did with the X5/X7. They realised a lot of people were cross-shopping them, so they kept the C5 more conservative and made the X7 extroverted. Win-win for everyone included (but mostly BMW for getting more sales).
View on Reddit #44735845

strongmanass@reddit

The previous generation didn't sell as well against rivals as the current generation cars. Like it or not, new car buyers are responding positively to the styling. 
View on Reddit #44752300

Unoriginal-@reddit

You guys still make this joke 4 years later, it’s actually hilarious
View on Reddit #44738402

pon_d@reddit

Hey, someone’s gotta pick the low-hanging fruit
View on Reddit #44738453

samcar330@reddit

Used from the factory
View on Reddit #44753418

thejetssuckbigtime@reddit

BMW sells like hotcakes despite their design because their lease deals are nearly always attractive relative to the competition. Yeah that means dirt cheap second hand cars so none of this is surprising
View on Reddit #44746900

AAMCcansuckmydick@reddit

How are we supposed to trust their numbers after they’ve already committed fraud and falsified sales data in the past?!
View on Reddit #44974503

Chraftor@reddit

Engine oil companies stock's should go crazy high.
View on Reddit #44961083

thefudd@reddit

I bought an i4 M50 this year. Best built ev imo.
View on Reddit #44736911

nelson_moondialu@reddit

According to consumer reports as well. It's an amazing EV as far as I can tell.
View on Reddit #44739999

historicusXIII@reddit

It's the best car I ever drove.
View on Reddit #44899486

shantm79@reddit

Did you test drive the i4 eDrive40 as well?
View on Reddit #44767035

AFB27@reddit

I have. Definitely quick enough off the line but nowhere near as fast as the M50. The one I drove was a RWD too, and due to the conditions, had been raining heavily right before I test drove it, it broke loose quite a bit. It only has 335 HP but with all the torque, I could barely tell the difference between it and my M340 power wise. BMW is very good at making these things drive like traditional cars (power delivery aside) compared to all of the others I've driven. This would be the perfect daily but man, it is nowhere near the level of thrill you get in the M50.
View on Reddit #44825958

thefudd@reddit

I did not.
View on Reddit #44767086

AFB27@reddit

Absolutely insane how quick this thing is. I don't think I've ever had a headache after driving a car but the way this pulls is unlike anything I have ever experienced before
View on Reddit #44825711

PSKTS_Heisingberg@reddit

Got to drive it for the last 2 years at the UDE event they do across the country, where you get to beat the shit out of it on an autocross track for free. Besides regenerative braking which can be off putting if you’re not used to it, it quite literally was the only EV that impressed me. It did everything right, and it was powerful. I loved it
View on Reddit #44791693

TheMazdaMx5Enjoyer@reddit

Matt Farah says BMW, out of all electrics, is “most like its non-electric counterpart” Would you agree?
View on Reddit #44738047

Gatortribe@reddit

I would. My i5 is so similar to my father's G30 540i, it's uncanny. There was no learning curve for me at all coming from an M340i.
View on Reddit #44755603

thefudd@reddit

Definitely. I came over from a model 3 performance and the quality/dynamics difference is astounding.
View on Reddit #44738660

PreacherSquat@reddit

have you driven a highland 3 performance? i've read that it's an improvement over the first gen.
View on Reddit #44753806

thefudd@reddit

I haven't, I had the first gen. I wanted to be done with the brand anyway and wanted to come back to BMW for my daily driver.
View on Reddit #44753874

AncefAbuser@reddit

Yes. BMW builds BMWs that happen to be electric. Yes, you're still carrying that weight. But just like their whale ICE counterparts, you'd be damned to figure out where that weight actually went when you start tossing it around.
View on Reddit #44748580

professorberrynibble@reddit

I certainly have no regrets on the M4 I picked up this year. Astoundingly fun car to drive.
View on Reddit #44872983

solo118@reddit

They got me as 1 of those sales
View on Reddit #44861570

Born4Nothin@reddit

Doesn’t surprise me. We live in the social media age. People buy BMWs to flex on the instagram.
View on Reddit #44736606

Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit

A luxury car brand is a status symbol? ...mind blown
View on Reddit #44846163

guy_incognito784@reddit

I’ve never posted any BMW I’ve ever owned on Instagram. It’s always amusing how disconnected from reality this subreddit is.
View on Reddit #44738216

Born4Nothin@reddit

It’s not exclusive to instagram. I mean in general that people buy BMWs as a status symbol.
View on Reddit #44740080

guy_incognito784@reddit

Yes. Nothing says status like a 330i. I suspect you’re simply projecting your own insecurities on others. People buy what they like. Simple as that.
View on Reddit #44741721

RevvCats@reddit

I don’t know what planet you’re living on but I’ve met lots of people who flex the badge regardless of what low end model they bought. BMW sales benefit immensely from being seen a status symbol, but that’s nothing new.
View on Reddit #44743485

guy_incognito784@reddit

One where I realize that the people flexing their $499/month lease special 330i aren’t indicative of the general population who actually buy these cars. I’ve personally have never met these people you mention but again I avoid people like that and realize they are out there.
View on Reddit #44743655

rusmo@reddit

“I’ve personally never met…” https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1htclqt/bmw_set_a_new_sales_record_in_the_us_for_2024/m5cla24/
View on Reddit #44779866

guy_incognito784@reddit

I guess you thought you were being smart or clever?
View on Reddit #44795337

rusmo@reddit

You figured it out! ⭐️ for you champ!
View on Reddit #44801241

dnyank1@reddit

Just drive around NYC, Miami, any other young money city for like, 30 seconds, and you'll see that " $499/month lease special 330i " IS the BULK of who's actually buying "these cars". That and Uber drivers - you can take Premier fares in a base 3 series but not in a Lexus IS, G70, Cadillac CT4. https://www.uber.com/global/en/eligible-vehicles/?city=nyc-suburbs > You act like 20 year olds flock out to buy X5s. 2010s X6es, but... yes. 20-somethings gravitate to third-owner BMWs like flies to sugar water.
View on Reddit #44746033

guy_incognito784@reddit

>Just drive around NYC, Miami, any other young money city for like, 30 seconds, and you'll see that " $499/month lease special 330i " IS the BULK of who's actually buying "these cars". I have and while I definitely see more of that there than I do here, they're still not the "bulk" of who's buying the cars lol.
View on Reddit #44780176

Born4Nothin@reddit

Lol exactly. These guys are in denial. BMWs are badge-mobiles
View on Reddit #44765041

guy_incognito784@reddit

Yes, for people who are looking at being the fourth owner of a 12 year old car. Maybe. This thread is about new BMW sales.
View on Reddit #44770624

rusmo@reddit

You need to look up the phrase ’anecdotal evidence.’
View on Reddit #44779604

guy_incognito784@reddit

I’m good. I realize that the losers on social media eager to show off are statistically speaking, wildly off the median BMW buyer age of around their mid 40s. Maybe a refresher in critical thinking would do you some good though.
View on Reddit #44779819

Bonerchill@reddit

I knew a guy in 2018 who constantly posted his new M3 alongside expensive, daddy-bankrolled purchases- while pretending he was self-made. I only know this because we partnered with him at a marque-specific show because he had followers and we needed eyes on product. It happens, it’s just hardly a majority. I don’t see it because aspirational/wealthy enthusiast/modern car content doesn’t show on my feed- weeding out that content makes ones’s socials far more realistic.
View on Reddit #44745505

cookingboy@reddit

Do you have any stats or sources that would back up that claim?
View on Reddit #44737138

Born4Nothin@reddit

Don’t need stats. It’s pretty common sense that people buy BMWs to flex.
View on Reddit #44739983

Realistic_Village184@reddit

That's not "common sense" at all. Many BMW's are just the best value proposition in their class. It's fine to have your opinion that BMW's aren't good value, but many people disagree with you.
View on Reddit #44741325

Born4Nothin@reddit

Mercedes too. People buy the entry level BMW and Mercedes and think they’re hot shit
View on Reddit #44764958

cookingboy@reddit

Maybe for the lower income people who stretch their finances to lease a X2. But for most of its customer base it’s just a car that does what it’s designed to well. If I could lease an EV sports sedan of the same quality as my i4 I absolutely would have. I even test drove Hyundai and Kia. At the end of the day it’s just a mass produced cad
View on Reddit #44742112

TheChurroBaller@reddit

Maybe you should buy a bmw, then you’ll understand why people like them
View on Reddit #44757100

tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit

There’s a bmw next to me with the “ugly” grille and all I can say is that the front end looks menacing? I don’t get the hate, I thought it looked good
View on Reddit #44746106

hutch1973@reddit

I bought a 2025 M440 this year. I like the grille. I think it's overblown when you look at other cars on the market, they have similar sized grilles. I had a 2021 Genesis G70 and grille was essentially the same size.
View on Reddit #44747357

AFB27@reddit

I think it's more of a shape than a size thing. At least for me it is.
View on Reddit #44826069

lemoopse@reddit

That's nothing, I saw an XM the other day - I kind of liked it
View on Reddit #44782505

maniac365@reddit

the x3 looks good imo
View on Reddit #44749621

PsychologicalArm107@reddit

This is wonderful news 
View on Reddit #44813767

Only-Definition-9402@reddit

In the fourth quarter of 2024, BMW sales in the U.S. totaled 117,506 vehicles, an 8.9% increase from the 107,881 vehicles sold in the fourth quarter of 2023. For the full year 2024, BMW sales increased by 2.5% to total sales of 371,346 vehicles compared to the 362,244 vehicles sold in 2023. This represents the second consecutive year that BMW has set a new sales record in the U.S.
View on Reddit #44811105

Turbulent_Welcome508@reddit

Who bought the 0.346 car?
View on Reddit #44809548

Familiar-Can7792@reddit

I drive an E39 daily and honestly when someone sees a car 20 years old that looks and runs like mine it probably doesnt hurt their motivation to buy one next time they are looking for a new car
View on Reddit #44809031

NCSUGrad2012@reddit

Doesn’t surprise me. They’re some of the best new driving cars you can buy, their reliability has vastly improved and their tech features are great
View on Reddit #44739253

caller-number-four@reddit

> best new driving cars you can buy This, I will not deny. And I've gotten to sling many of them around on the BMW Performance Center track in Greer, SC and they are a fucking BLAST to drive hard. Even the X series. Heck, I got to drive an M5 that wasn't even on sale in the US at the time we were playing with it. But here's the thing that chomps my gnaw about BMW's. The stupid little shit that they just seem to throw in for no dumb reason. Case in point: A friend of mine (a well-to-do MD) has a 5 series. I believe it is a 2018. He has always taken the car to the dealership for service and he's on a first name basis with the place. He doesn't do anything to that car himself and always demands the dealership work on it. A month or so ago, his nearly-deaf wife pointed out that she could hear the blower fan for the a/c would click on and off for no reason. So, he takes it to the dealership. They find that under the cowling there is this mesh fabric that serves as the intake filter and there's another micro filter that sits on top of it. "It's a well known issue on this model that these filters disintegrate..." writes the tech on the web site my friend uses to approve/deny work. "... unfortunately, this one has disintegrated and destroyed the blower fan. $1800 please". That, frankly, pissed me off. One, if it is a "well known issue" why wasn't the dealership checking it when the car was in for regular maintenance? And two, again, if it is a well known issue why wasn't there a TSB or some such to address it? Other than the dealership scoring a $1800 check out of some random guy who doesn't know better. This is but one example. But I've seen many of these stupid little bullshit items over the years from friends vehicles to pop up enough to make me never want to own a BMW. Despite being a blast to drive.
View on Reddit #44749819

Hunt3rj2@reddit

Only way to make cost of ownership reasonable is DIY everything. The blower motor is less than 300 USD but book labor is 6 hours which is laughably high. Between parts markup + that killer labor quote you can save 1500 USD in an afternoon.
View on Reddit #44808877

wip30ut@reddit

... because in many major urban markets 75%+ of BMWs are leased for 3 yrs, so they just don't care about long term maintenance & reliability. BMW expects those driving $60k+ cars to lease them & turn them over again & again.
View on Reddit #44761608

Sstraus-1983@reddit

Should there be a comma after 371 instead of a period?
View on Reddit #44749872

Barca1313@reddit

Found the American Source: am American
View on Reddit #44752360

amd2800barton@reddit

You know, there's plenty of things that vary by culture, which have no wrong answer. Some things are better (like most of the metric system). But using a period in the middle of an integer number is wrong, and I'll die on that hill. It's not a matter of "well it only looks wrong because you're used to the other way". It's wrong because the separator is just there to give your brain a pause. It matches the spoken and written language for numbers. When you say "three hundred seventy one thousand three hundred forty six", there's a natural pause there in the middle. Pauses in most indo-european languages (including English and German) are designated by a comma. The end of a complete thought is designated by a period. So when writing numbers, it makes sense to use a comma in the middle of a whole number. Because there's no meaningful difference between 999 and 1000. It's just that in a long number, such as 371,346 a comma helps the brain to parse how large the number is. Then when that number is completed, we should end it with a period to mark the conclusion of the integer portion, before we start the fractional/decimal portion - which is a separate and distinct thought. TL;DR: Cultures who put periods in the middle of whole numbers are just doing it wrong. It's backwards from how most every culture speaks and writes language. Commas go every 10^(3n) and periods go between the integer and fractional values.
View on Reddit #44761604

reacTy@reddit

Hear me out. Both british and american typing of numbers is ugly. Most of european countries use space. 3 000 000 or 1 453 888,99€.
View on Reddit #44801259

V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

BMW EV lineup is still most competitive than Mercedes and Audi, that’s great news. > For the full year 2024, MINI brand sales decreased by 21.5% to total sales of 26,299 vehicles compared to the 33,497 vehicles sold in 2023. Oof, they really need to improve Mini ASAP. It needs new leadership and plans.
View on Reddit #44735676

cookingboy@reddit

I have an i4 M50, and it’s great, although not perfect. My friend’s iX on the other hand, is sensationally good in almost every way except its looks.
View on Reddit #44736861

kraken_enrager@reddit

Honestly the ix looks fairly decent.
View on Reddit #44796860

koopa00@reddit

I don't understand how they made fake giant grilles look ok on the i4 and then completely missed on the iX.
View on Reddit #44755550

defund_aipac_7@reddit

And storage space. Tiniest trunk in the world
View on Reddit #44751290

I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit

They just need A plan, period. When I was selling them, they basically never listened to dealers and just would do what they think made sense in their big German corporate meetings and that was that. There were like 6 different marketing strategies in the few years I was there. The product is actually quite good, though the new ones are a bit more polarizing to the brand enthusiasts, but the rest of the public, especially state-side, just forgets it exists entirely. Not to mention not being able to profitably sell two very important new models in North America since in typical fashion, they made the genius decision to partner with a Chinese company right as trade tensions were starting to boil over. I think they also abandoned their core product too early focusing on all EV by 2030, while letting ICE go through another facelift. Had they worked on integration of the mild hybrid powertrain seen in some markets on the new Countryman, or even expanded on the old PHEV Countryman, which despite being a compliance special, was actually a pretty good car, I think we may have seen a different picture. An ICE or PHEV Aceman with AWD would be a slam dunk in the US market, which is what dealers have essentially been saying for years, they need a subcompact CUV in that space for the people who don’t want the now much bigger Countryman. It’s basically a slightly larger Hardtop 4dr, and I can tell you, we had people all time asking if they made on in AWD. Instead, they kept the Clubman around forever, which almost nobody wanted and we practically had to give away, and have proceeded to further bury their heads in the sand as to what their customers and dealers are actually asking for. I truthfully don’t think BMW has really ever quite known what to do with MINI, as much as they’ve made some really good products over the years (and some not good), but now they’re really at the culmination of some poor management, ignorance of individual markets and consumer wants, absolutely zero marketing effort, no consistent brand message, and some very crappy decisions. It’s a great shame, as the cars now are incredibly reliable, very safe, very engaging to drive, and I’m very happy with mine. But I’m one person.
View on Reddit #44742718

bikedork5000@reddit

From the perspective of an American who's into hot hatches and wagons, I just went down the rabbit hole learning about the B48 motor recently. It's really good and underrated by enthusiasts IMO. In looking at what models had it, I came across the litany of Minis that have some of the highest output versions of it. Interesting! Until I saw the interiors. Holy shit those look *awful*. Ditch the kitsch and just have something that looks nice. I get that Mini is supposed to be kinda cute and quirky but the interiors just make me cartoon hamsters in a Scion. Cheap and cheesy.
View on Reddit #44766405

I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit

Personally, I think if you’re looking at the performance SUV side, the X3 just has that much more utility for the money. Plus a full M version if it’s in the budget. Otherwise I’d just save the $$ and get a JCW Clubman ALL4 and pocket the rest. The X1 is a solid vehicle, and the M35i has its place, but when the X3 exists, I think I’d just go that route if I were SUV shopping. If money were no object, I’d definitely get an X3M Competition if I needed more space than the hatch I have. That thing is ridiculously awesome to drive.
View on Reddit #44767271

bikedork5000@reddit

Yeah X3M comp is wild. If I was looking at it I'd probably go Macan GTS but that's just personal preference. Seems like the X3M is objectively better in a lot of ways.
View on Reddit #44784769

withsexyresults@reddit

Bigger issue than their drivetrain is they’re kinda stuck with their compact form factor. It’s great in dense cities but it’s a hard sell to areas with more space.
View on Reddit #44745478

I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit

Very true, it’s pretty much why the Countryman came to exist. And the Countryman is the major reason the brand has been able to survive thus far, because it’s that greater utility and size that people want more across the board. Another issue in the US speaks to that too, because the smaller cars get viewed as toys or impractical, or unsafe, because of their size. None of which is really true, but when you don’t do anything to overcome that perception, there’s not exactly any fault on the public for thinking otherwise. They’ve kinda left that up to the word of mouth of owners as well as dealers to build that story. They’re also in kind of a weird space in the US where, by and large, people equate size with price. So, a $35,000 MINI is seen as super overpriced because it’s being compared to something like a Kia Soul or something of that nature. The problem is, there’s really no other, and forgive the douchey term, “boutique-ish” cars on sale here anymore. The Beetle is dead, and we don’t get the DS3-esque performance hatches here en masse to compare to. The GTI is probably the closest thing, and VW isn’t having that much better of a time. Of course, it doesn’t help that the public sees European cars are unreliable and expensive. The former of which, BMW has done a terrible job of addressing past failures and promoting their success in improving reliability. The latter of which, is somewhat overblown and simultaneously proven true by dealers charging crazy labor rates for stuff that really isn’t as intensive as it may seem.
View on Reddit #44747494

withsexyresults@reddit

Yea bad position to be in for mini. Making a much bigger car will move away from the mini brand and lots of people won’t pay a premium for a small car for all your reasons. Always had a soft spot for minis quirky interiors but don’t see myself getting one
View on Reddit #44758832

rconn1469@reddit

[It got new leadership a few months ago.](https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0441988EN/change-in-leadership-at-mini-brand?language=en)
View on Reddit #44774808

xamdou@reddit

The interior design of the new Mini is a massive downgrade compared to the last generation. I don't see why anyone would buy a new one over a slightly used one.
View on Reddit #44747346

I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit

In terms of the tech and UI itself, having had both back to back, I think the UI is actually a massive upgrade. The Gen3 models were on a very outdated platform using an old version of iDrive that really wasn’t designed to handle CarPlay and couldn’t even accommodate Android Auto. Which was fine in 2014 when it came out but was well outdated a year ago when it was discontinued. My 2018 didn’t even have onboard NAV, and it was a pretty well-equipped model otherwise. But, the layout is very polarizing. The lack of a gear selector is weird, though I must admit I do appreciate the big storage cubby in its place. But, the lack of manual gearbox availability is a big turn-off for a lot of MINI buyers. I like the DCT, but they should have both options available. Otherwise, having used other haptic systems before, I figured it would suck, but I thought it was a lot better than VW’s for example, which is what made me more comfortable making the switch, I find it pretty easy to use. But, I’m decently tech-savvy, and knowing the average MINI buyer is like 100, I can see where they’re having a lot of hesitation. The new system also has had some bugs for sure, but the previous one wasn’t really that great anyway. My concern with it is, with so many core functions being on the screen, what happens in the event of a systems failure? They’re putting a lot of trust in digital tech to be solely responsible for some pretty core vehicle functionality, and that’s where I think it was a bit shortsighted. I still like mine, but I also was not somebody who needed to be sold, it’s a brand I enjoy and I was probably buying one anyway. For someone who isn’t nuts like I am, it’s a much harder sell, and then, to your point, where’s the value against getting a CPO or used? Especially when the third gens are also very reliable cars longer term, the “new with a warranty” is not the selling point it used to be. Not to mention, they depreciate like rocks so a gently used example is usually pennies on the dollar.
View on Reddit #44748731

xamdou@reddit

This is a very well-though out response. My complaint is that they removed the dashboard and made the rest of it look like a Tesla.
View on Reddit #44754063

I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit

Definitely appreciate that and glad it’s not coming across as “I’m right, you’re wrong” because that’s not the intent at all. Just offering perspective having now owned both gens. I think their pursuit of Tesla actually makes a little bit of sense on paper. It pains me to say it, because I can’t stand them lol, but they have succeeded in quite a few areas. The difference is, MINI doesn’t have any kind of clout with the general public, who may be a little more receptive and are typically less resistant to changes. MINI only has clout within its existing circle of owners, who tend to be incredibly resistant to change and feel very strongly about their brand. So, I question who these changes and updates are for. Technically, it is more in line with the minimalistic interior layout of the classic Mini, which is kind of what they were going for. The problem is, unlike then, a modern MINI is not a cheap car, and we aren’t living in 1970’s England. People are very used to BMW’s modern version of the brand, with options, features, etc. A bit more “extra” in a sense. So, what exactly is the point of trying to channel something from 40-50 years ago that doesn’t resonate with anybody. It’s an example of how MINI relies too much on its heritage and history, when 99% of its modern customers couldn’t give less of a fuck about it. At my store, we more or less gave up trying to play up the heritage and history of the brand because, outside of the boomer service customer with a manual R50 first gen who’s never buying a new one anyway, nobody cares. You know what people do care about? Price and resale value, lack of standard features when compared to other cars on the market, safety, performance, utility and practicality, and cost and ease of maintenance. Guess how much of that MINI bothers to address or market and promote? Lol
View on Reddit #44755153

xamdou@reddit

>I think their pursuit of Tesla actually makes a little bit of sense on paper. I can't disagree with it. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but I understand *why*. Mini isn't wholly popular for a large variety of reasons, but it does have a quirkiness to it. This comparison is a bit of a stretch, but Apple computers were, historically, never really seen as "business" tools and their minimalism was designed for ease-of-use. Nevertheless, they caught on with "quirkier" people (prior to the iPod/smartphone boom). Tesla (arguably briefly or still is) tapped into that same ideology. Minimalism and ease-of-use. >At my store, we more or less gave up trying to play up the heritage and history of the brand because, outside of the boomer service customer with a manual R50 first gen who’s never buying a new one anyway, nobody cares. You know what people do care about? Price and resale value, lack of standard features when compared to other cars on the market, safety, performance, utility and practicality, and cost and ease of maintenance. Guess how much of that MINI bothers to address or market and promote? Lol Which is actually rather crazy because the BMW engines in them are incredibly reliable. I very nearly bought a last-gen JCW simply because it had the B48 in it. And from what I can tell, those JCWs still hold their value fairly well compared to other cars in that price range. Then again, it's the performance trim for a niche buyer in an already niche market of small cars (and I'm an anorak who looks into the engine/transmission a car has). Personally, I loved how Mini was tying into their racing heritage with the JCW models, the red trim, stupid boy-racer looking things on them. I still want one at some point, but $40,000 for a front wheel drive hot hatch is steep - especially when the Golf GTI exists for less, the Elantra N exists for less, and the Honda Civic Type R isn't too much more above.
View on Reddit #44759761

I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit

100% agree with you, it really comes down to, I think, who exactly they want to be. Do they want to go after the performance crowd? Do they want the tech people? Old school looking for a fun second car or weekend fun car? Entry-level luxury buyer? Yuppie people wanting something different than their neighbors? Brand die-hards? The problem is, their answer at a corporate level has always been “yes” to the above. They try to be everything to everyone, and can’t focus on one thing to build strength upon. BMW can do it because they have the model range and versatility to do it. MINI doesn’t. They’re always going to be niche, no matter what they do. But, instead of trying to rebuild their own footing with the B-engines as a great selling point, they’ve tried to do all the things and, to your point about competition like the GTI or Elantra N, they’re competing against stuff with better performance figures, better brand identity and messaging, and more value for the money. Unless you’re, like I said, nuts like me and specifically looking at one, I can’t see where they’re getting tons of people off the street. When I was there, Countryman was the vast majority of non-previous owners coming in organically, and it’s one of the few models we see continuing growth year over year. Because it’s something people looking in that segment actually want.
View on Reddit #44761283

Blaze4G@reddit

Imo MINI is in a weird place. Everyone wants SUVs, but when you think about MINI you don't think of a CRV or pilot sized suv. Mini also doesn't have the brand prestige of a Mercedes, bmw, etc.
View on Reddit #44747191

InvasionOfScipio@reddit

1) mini MSRPs have exploded. A JCW 2 door is now over 40K. 2) the new interior is incredibly divisive and buggy.
View on Reddit #44745968

Bonerchill@reddit

My wife bought two MINIs new. She is repulsed by the new cars. Literally physically recoiled when we saw one while walking.
View on Reddit #44744700

jomartz@reddit

It is odd that the uglier their cars get, the more sales they have. Sad.
View on Reddit #44779624

dopil919@reddit

People get past the looks. And not to mention the look has grown on lots of people. BMW arguably has the best cars out of Germany right now. Purely based off the engineering of the car itself. In performance sedans they are the best on market regardless of looks. Their suvs are incredible. Bmw has shown clear improvement and superior technology in ev platforms, making them best in the current market. Bmw has shown huge growth and improvement throughout all of their cars, I think that’s the reason why they are so successful now.
View on Reddit #44788069

leanordthefourth@reddit

I just ended my 4 Series Grand Coupe lease a couple of weeks ago, traded in for an Ioniq 5. Loved the BMW but oddly not a material enough difference between the Hyundai to justify the +$700 a month lease payment.
View on Reddit #44760529

dopil919@reddit

Tbf the Ioniq 5 is a great car so I don’t blame yiu
View on Reddit #44787652

SlackBytes@reddit

Car guys once again out of touch with reality
View on Reddit #44786262

akopley@reddit

Don’t care. They’re ugly af and I’ll never buy a current gen.
View on Reddit #44782314

FunParkCastle@reddit

Somebody sold .346 of a bmw car? Get that salesman a beer
View on Reddit #44780962

nyanslider@reddit

Who's buying all these big man weiner?
View on Reddit #44733246

ThrillSeeker-9@reddit

A lot of chodes if I'm being 100% honest. This is a reflection of American individualism peaking. BMW knows their crowd well and has played right into their hands with their boaty gaudy new cars. "I'm better than you" in SUV, sedan, and coupe form. The only new car that doesn't seem to fit this mold is the Z4, which is fittingly one of their their least desirable models.
View on Reddit #44733427

democracywon2024@reddit

Bmw dudes are always the guys who got married at 18, go to the gym endlessly, and yet somehow the only person that will hang out with them is their wife because they are annoying ASF.
View on Reddit #44735307

Noobasdfjkl@reddit

Please, tell me more about your theories on other people. https://www.reddit.com/r/Smilepleasse/comments/1hskh67/snl_is_going_to_hell_for_this/m5c3bt8/?context=3
View on Reddit #44750795

guy_incognito784@reddit

This is completely unsurprising once you realize both his username and the fact he posts about NASCAR frequently.
View on Reddit #44774448

Noobasdfjkl@reddit

I’m actually trying to get into NASCAR myself because the racing looks more fun to watch than your average F1 race, but the fanbase is indeed a barrier to entry.
View on Reddit #44777170

DM725@reddit

Damn, whats the deal with women that drive a BMW then?
View on Reddit #44742949

guy_incognito784@reddit

Hey man. I missed you at the gym this morning.
View on Reddit #44743962

DM725@reddit

My wife and I share the 2 cars so I'm only permitted to go to the gym 3 days a week.
View on Reddit #44744626

guy_incognito784@reddit

I’ve learned a lot about myself today that I was wholly unaware of. Thank you.
View on Reddit #44738126

wip30ut@reddit

typically older Millenials & GenXers who're pulling down $200k+ annually. The vast majority of these cars are leased so the monthlies are $600 to $1000.
View on Reddit #44761822

HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit

Just looking at 3-series/4-series and its competition, BMW is currently the best choice I think among the Germans. Especially if you want a liftback, its either the 4 series GC or the A5/S5, and to be honest, compared to the new A5/S5, I think I would accept the 4 series pig snout and buy that.
View on Reddit #44733988

JC-Dude@reddit

BMW is also the only one of the big German 3 with an EV offering in that segment. Audi has no PHEVs either. They're handing entire swaths of the market to BMW.
View on Reddit #44740383

ubercruise@reddit

Is the Q5e no more?
View on Reddit #44744044

JC-Dude@reddit

It’s not there for the new gen. I guess they’ll make one eventually, but in the meantime people have to go with BMW or Merc if they want a PHEV in that segment.
View on Reddit #44744842

ubercruise@reddit

Yeah I wasn’t sure if it was sticking around.
View on Reddit #44745053

Final_Winter7524@reddit

People who can spell wiener.
View on Reddit #44736305

nyanslider@reddit

First time I've ever wrote it, my bad.
View on Reddit #44738468

GraceParagonique24@reddit

I guess there's a lot of people who love to pay big bucks for regular maintenance.
View on Reddit #44740413

NCSUGrad2012@reddit

r/carscirclejerk
View on Reddit #44741660

GraceParagonique24@reddit

r/douchebag
View on Reddit #44741782

cars-ModTeam@reddit

Thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed. Please read the removal notice carefully. Your post falls into one or more (but not necessarily all) of the following categories: * All comments must remain civil and all Redditors are expected to remain courteous. If you wouldn't say it to someone sitting next to you on an airplane you should probably not say it here. Slurs and bigoted/hateful language are not welcome here. Please read the [rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/rules) and the [chain of action](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/chain_of_action) regarding removed comments and moderator actions before continuing to post. If you have any questions, please **read the [rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/rules)** first and feel free to [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fcars) if you still have concerns. Please **do not send PMs or chat requests** to individual moderators. They will not reply.
View on Reddit #44768720

Realistic_Village184@reddit

BMW covers all maintenance for the first three years of purchase, so a lot of people who buy them and only have them for a few years will pay nothing for maintenance. Oil changes are pretty much all you need to do after that three years, and oil changes are only marginally more expensive on a BMW than any other car if you have a good independent shop. If you're taking it to the dealer, that's your fault lol
View on Reddit #44741279

trey0824@reddit

Those maintenance costs are included in the purchase price of the vehicle. So people do pay for it.
View on Reddit #44757292

Cost_Additional@reddit

Should help used prices in the next 2-3 years
View on Reddit #44766144

RevvedUpLikeADeuce09@reddit

I think the biggest takeaway here is that the blind can actually drive cars.
View on Reddit #44763947

DangerToManifold2001@reddit

Ffs how do so many people have so little self respect???
View on Reddit #44734960

Juicyjackson@reddit

How is buying an objectively good car that has pretty good reliability, stand out Styling, great Performance, fantastic luxury, brand appeal, customer service, etc mean you have so little self respect?
View on Reddit #44750605

kinda_guilty@reddit

"Me no like car. Me think people who buy car are stupid. Everyone should support MyOtherFavouriteMegacorp™ instead, they're great!" - Them, probably.
View on Reddit #44760741

JJMcGee83@reddit

This headline is a little misleading. Using he period instead of the comma makes it look like they sold 371 cars last year which confsued me how it was a record.
View on Reddit #44760118

AlfaHotelWhiskey@reddit

Right? Selling only 371 cars doesn’t seem that impressive either.
View on Reddit #44757268

robmox@reddit

How do you sell 34.6% of a car?
View on Reddit #44753264

Total-Deal-2883@reddit

Bought I thought everyone is poor and couldn’t afford groceries?
View on Reddit #44748499

BigOldButt99@reddit

The wealth disparity has never been greater. People are either struggling to pay rent and buy food, or buying so many Porsche GT3s that they're sold out for 2 years, or buying 700k ferraris and 4 million dollar Aston Martins.
View on Reddit #44749010

analyticaljoe@reddit

This is a joke: Proof that the US has become more filled with assholes. We suspected it based on our politics, now we know. ;) This is half of an old joke: What's the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?
View on Reddit #44746981

WatchStoredInAss@reddit

Everyone wants to keep up with the Joneses!
View on Reddit #44740281

7eregrine@reddit

But everybody is poor?!? 🤷‍♂️
View on Reddit #44746422

Vwburg@reddit

It’s quite unexpected that the only thing holding back BMW sales all along has been terrible styling. Ungh.
View on Reddit #44737015

GraceParagonique24@reddit

They've had the same basic front end design on every model since the last 1990's.
View on Reddit #44740545

CertifiedAngler@reddit

You lying like crazy
View on Reddit #44741230

CLS4L@reddit

More like leasing
View on Reddit #44738139