Israeli airstrike hits a Gaza humanitarian zone as Netanyahu OKs a delegation to talks in Qatar

Posted by demonspawns_ghost@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 476 comments

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cap123abc@reddit

“The childhood of tens of thousands of Palestinian youngsters is being lived from one trauma to the next, from horror to horror. Their homes are demolished, their parents are humiliated in front of their eyes, soldiers storm into their homes brutally in the middle of the night, tanks open fire on their classrooms. And they don’t have a psychological service. Have you ever heard of a Palestinian child who is a “victim of anxiety”?” -Norman Finkelstein

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

I've read that many children in Gaza are dying from heart attacks because they are in a constant state of terror. I had a severe mental breakdown at the end of 2019 where I was in fear for my life every day for a year and a half. My heart rate was double what it should have been, and I can only imagine what these children are going through.

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Zipz@reddit

Source for the heart attacks ?

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

Mohammad Daoud, 41, is in a state of shock, still reeling from the death of his four-year-old son, Tamim, who suffered from a heart ailment.

Tamim woke up terrified because of the heavy shelling. He came running to his mother’s lap crying and trembling with fear,” said the father of two, recalling the attack.

“For a moment I didn’t realise that Tamim’s heart couldn’t stand it. I tried to calm him down, but his heart was beating so hard, as if it was going to fall out of place.”

He rushed Tamim to the children’s hospital for cardiopulmonary resuscitation, but the doctors said the child’s condition had already deteriorated.

“Tamim stayed for hours in intensive care until he passed away late in the day,” Daoud said.

Ropetrick6@reddit

Yes or no question, did Israel blocking humanitarian aid, including food, medicine, and medical equipment, help that child's heart condition?

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Siman421@reddit

is changing the subject when you have no argument your favorite pastime? you literally asked 5 unrelated questions.

yes they are unrelated. you cant argue they are. the conversation was about heart attacks and you've asked completely unrelated questions

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Ropetrick6@reddit

is changing the subject when you have no argument

How is bringing up the multitude of things that Israel deliberately did that all directly contributed tot his child's death count as "changing the subject"?

you literally asked 5 unrelated questions

Can you please provide a peer-reviewed source detailing how 5 questions all directly related to how Israel has systematically ruined this child's health are "unrelated"?

yes they are unrelated

[Citations Needed]

you cant argue they are

I can and will argue for the truth.

The conversation was about heart attacks and you've asked completely unrelated questions

Ah yes, and as we all know, stress has NEVER once been a contributing factor in heart attacks, right? As we all know, contaminated drinking water could NEVER adversely affect a growing child's heart health, right? As we all know, chemicals and debris in the air could NEVER negatively impact a growing child's health, right? As we all know, the destruction of roads and public infrastructure could NEVER slow down emergency medical teams, or the transport of a child to healthcare professionals. As we all know, there's no way that the complete blockade of medicine could result in a child being denied access to medicine that'd improve their condition. As we all know, starvation and food insecurity could never stunt a child's healthy growth.

Wait a minute, everything that was just said, everything that YOU are making the claim of, was entirely false. Stress IS a contributing factor in heart attacks. Contaminated drinking water DOES adversely affect children's heart health. Chemicals and debris in the air DO negatively impact growing children's health. The destruction of roads and paths DOES slow down transport to and from medical facilities. Stopping medicine from entering Gaza DOES deny children in Gaza access to medicine that could improve their health conditions. Starvation DOES stunt healthy growth.

Huh, it's almost like all of the things I brought up were DIRECTLY RELATED to heart attacks in Gaza.

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Siman421@reddit

Are you a doctor? Do you have the credibility to decide the factors that contribute to heart disease and therefore conclude Israel's actions have an effect on it? No? Didn't think so. That's why it's changing the subject. You asked questions unrelated to heart disease, with the assumption you can make medical conclusions.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Are you a doctor?

Myself? No. However, considering how often I'm in contact with doctors about my mother's heart condition and sister's Asthma, as well as the fact that I was directly quoting the opinions of medical professionals on this matter, I can guarantee that you have far less standing on this front.

Are YOU a doctor?

Do you have the credibility to decide the factors that contribute to heart disease and therefore conclude Israel's actions have an effect on it?

Yes, see the above.

Now answer the question: are YOU a doctor, do YOU have the credibility to disprove the actual cardiothoracic surgeons? Do YOU have the ability to arbitrarily dictate that all of those factors which directly affect heart health are 100% totally unrelated to this child's death?

No? Didn't think so.

See the above.

That's why it's changing the subject

Ah yes, staying on subject is "changing the subject". War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength, right?

The Doublethink is strong in you.

You asked questions unrelated to heart disease, with the assumption you can make medical conclusions.

Jesus Fucking Christ, you war crime supporters can't stop lying with every breath you take, can you?

You are not a doctor. You can make medical claims, but they are as meaningless as me making them.

Tell that to every single cardiothoracic surgeon of the world.

Go on, go to them in person and tell them to their face that their whole field is a lie.

The report doesn't say it's Israel's actions, you aren't a doctor, and therefore you can't conclude what you did with any significance

See the above.

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Siman421@reddit

im not making medical claims, you are.

i have been surrounded by doctors for over 30 years ona daily basis, and i still dont make medical claims.

dont pretend to have expertise you dont.

again, im not disproving, no medical professionals have claimed israel has caused heart disease. im simply stating that is the case, while people here like you make claims they didnt.

cardiothoracic surgeon are the experts, and they arent claming israel is causing heart disease. youre literally proving my point here. YOU arent a cardiothoracic surgeon. dont make claims about their expertise that they arent.

you are making conclusions on your own, in a field you arent an expert on. perhaps STOP FUCKING DOING THAT?

"I can guarantee that you have far less standing on this front." this is just pretentious, and wrong. unironically, youve encountered a person who despite not being a medical professional, probably does know more. good job mate.

"Do YOU have the ability to arbitrarily dictate that all of those factors which directly affect heart health are 100% totally unrelated to this child's death?" the whole damn point here is that the only one making that claim is you. not me. you. burden of proof is on the accuser.

TL.DR - you made a claim, and asked others to disprove it, despite not being an expert on the field you made the claim in. thats not how logic works.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

You're making the claim that the variety of living conditions known for causing and worsening heart conditions by every single doctor in the world, actually are completely harmless and in no way could affect a growing child's heart.

Now, considering the fact that you're trying to disprove the existence of the entire fields of physiology and cardiology, I'm sure you've got EXCELLENT evidence to disprove the foundations of these fields, right?

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Siman421@reddit

Then you missed the point. Om not making any claims, you're making claims, Im saying you don't have the authority, expertise, or knowledge to make said claims. No doctors have made the claims you have.

Starting a sentence with and is already a grammatical mistake, so it's not like you're an expert. I, on the other hand, teach English. I damn well know how to structure a sentence, and you telling me I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong, it makes you wrong, and frankly, a little desperate.

Let's return to your question though. You asked a yes no question, with the hope of trying to "get" me, when you fail to realise answering the question with a yes or no is inherently something that shouldn't be done by me or you, given that we aren't experts in the field, and have very basic knowledge.

There also haven't been questions, there's been a single question.

But keep trying to look smarter, I'm sure it helps your fragile ego.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Riiiiiiiiight. Whatever you say.

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Siman421@reddit

you really are making yourself look dumber and dumber by the minute, but thats just my personal opinion, and opinions dont need to be proven, though they are meaningless int he grand scheme of things.

Also you know what else isn’t good for people with congenital heart problems? Extreme heat.

redelastic@reddit

Oh, I see it's not enough that Israel has killed over 1,000 babies aged between 0 and 1 year of age.

Do you even read the stuff you post ?

“Conclusion: The birth incidence of congenital heart disease in the Gaza Strip in 2010 (10 per 1000) is higher than most estimates in Western Europe (8.2 per 1000 live births) and North America (6.9 per 1000 live births) but is similar to estimates from other parts of Asia (9.3 per 1000 live births)”

It doesn’t even come close to pretending what you say it says in anyway.

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big_cock_lach@reddit

Yes, because having higher rates of heart disease than Asia, who is already well known for having incredibly high rates of heart disease causing international concern, is clearly evidence that they don’t have high rates of heart disease…

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Zipz@reddit

Ok so you are going to ignore the fact that you lied.

Got it

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big_cock_lach@reddit

And where exactly did I lie?

The other user claimed that Palestinian kids had high rates of heart disease due to Israel. I provided evidence that they had high rates of heart disease.

But sure, call me a liar because you have no other response and prefer to spread misinformation…

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Zipz@reddit

Guy said kids are dying from heart attack caused by Isreal.

You posted a study that had nothing to do with Isreal and nothing to do with the claim that was said.

And now you’re doubling down trying to pretend like you didn’t do anything.

Your making a fool of yourself

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big_cock_lach@reddit

So a study about them having higher rates of heart diseases has nothing to do with a claim about them having higher rates of heart diseases? And I’m the one making a fool of myself lol?

Anyway, as I said to the other guy, I’ve seen enough of your comments to know you’re just going to argue in bad faith and there’s no point wasting time arguing with you. Adios!

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ExplanationLover6918@reddit

Doesn't prove Israel is responsible for it though

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Zipz@reddit

Lol I love it instead of admitting you are dishonest you run away.

Glad you got exposed as a liar

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Zipz@reddit

Hey just to add to this a quick google search says

“In 2020, the prevalence of CHD in China was 17.32 cases per 1,000 perinatal births”

Multiple countries also have higher numbers in Asia like India and Pakistan.

I would love to hear how you would like to blame isreal.

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big_cock_lach@reddit

Firstly, that came from the AI prompt which is notoriously inaccurate. Yet you criticised me of lying? Why don’t you find a proper source.

Secondly, as I’ve said to you, just because other countries have high rates don’t mean it’s a good thing.

Thirdly, as I’ve said to the other person, different people can have the same problem for different reasons. For Asians due to smoking, genetic predispositions, and high salt diets. None of these are problems for Palestinians. Palestinians have high rates of stress, which is well known to cause heart problems. A lot of what Israel is doing to them is also well documented to cause stress.

Fourthly, why am I not surprised you’ve had to resort to whataboutism? So what they have a high rates? How does that make it okay that it’s a problem for Palestinians?

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

This is an awful thing to say, but the ones who have died are the lucky ones. At least their suffering has come to an end.

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Ambiwlans@reddit

-- 2005

Noting the date that book was published because it shows how banal this evil is. This slaughter is unchanged for decades.

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Significant-Bother49@reddit

The early morning strike killed at least 10 people, including three children and two senior Hamas police officers…Israeli government spokesman David Mencer said the strike targeted the head of the Hamas internal security force in southern Gaza…”Where did we find him? Where else, but of course hiding in the humanitarian zone in Khan Younis, where Gazans are sheltering from this war,” Mencer said.

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Uh... No. If they don't have a continuous combat function and poses no imminent threat to anyone they can't be targeted as a combatant, there's no "dual purpose", only combatants and civilians(e.g those who are afforded protections as civilians).

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Is there any evidence that supports that claim?

Before you get to proportionality you have to fulfil the distinction obligation, if there's no distinction you can't proceed to proportionality. This is really, really basic stuff so saying I'm espousing incorrect information is very silly.

The principle [of proportionality] cannot be applied to override specific protections, or create exceptions to rules where the text itself does not provide for one. As with the principle of necessity, the principle of proportionality itself is to be found within the rules of IHL themselves. For example, direct attacks against civilians are prohibited. A proportionality assessment is therefore not necessary since any direct attack against even a single civilian would already be a clear violation of IHL.

https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/resources/international-humanitarian-law/basic-principles-ihl/

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Zipz@reddit

You miss the part where I said they claimed this ?

I’m not saying it’s true but if it is it clearly changes things

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FlyingVolvo@reddit

I never said you said it was true? I asked specifically if there's any evidence supporting that claim, that's all

Regardless, it's on Israel to prove it's strike(and military activity more generally) complied with the laws of armed conflict.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Source that this police officer was engaged in active combat against the IDF?

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dyllandor@reddit

When Palestinian police are fighting IDF soldiers they're legal targets for sure, but that doesn't make all of them legal targets all the time in any circumstances.

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Theodosian_Walls@reddit

You guys say this about everyone with a job in Gaza...

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slightlyrabidpossum@reddit

Hamas' Internal Security Forces is an intelligence organization — Civil Police is a separate group. The ISF is ostensibly under the control of the Ministry of the Interior, but their members come from the al-Qassam Brigades. They're one of the three major intelligence organizations that Hamas runs.

I haven't seen any allegations about the police chief (Mahmoud Salah) being connected to the ISF, and Israel doesn't appear to be claiming that he was a target, so you're probably right about his civilian status. But I'm not at all clear on how his deputy (Hassam Shahwan) would be classified, assuming that he genuinely was the head of the ISF.

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BlackJesus1001@reddit

All well and good, but they roll this line out for almost everyone they kill, journalists, hospital directors, doctors, aid workers, police, hired guards.

You gave a claim, I have read a fair amount. And "close to direct combatants" is just false. I think it's your read into things. This is why I asked for a source.

Having access to information doesn't label you to be a valid target. But there are many ways for you to become a valid target that relate to intel. For example, If you intentionally provide intel to the enemy.

Intelligence is an extremely impotent part of war, and there are many soldiers in every army that are working on intel. You remove most of the army forces when you only consider direct combatants.

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slightlyrabidpossum@reddit

In a place where all the civil functions are run by one party naturally anyone with a job is going to be connected to them.

Sure, but running the ISF is nothing like being a random civil servant. The ISF obviously deals with some internal matters, but they also conduct counterintelligence operations against the IDF and Shin Bet.

This is why under international law it's a crime to target people who aren't close to direct combatants...

International law is rarely that straightforward. There appear to be potential exceptions for members of intelligence organizations that engage in actions that facilitate hostilities (like counterintelligence). Israel claims that Shahwan partnered with Hamas' military wing to develop intelligence assessments that were used to plan attacks. That might be enough to make him targetable as part of Hamas' organized armed group.

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redelastic@reddit

Exactly. Even if the liar is telling the truth, it's a war crime whichever you look at it.

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valentc@reddit

Right? They're there to provide security with all the chaos going on, and Israel's like, "nah, they are affiliated with the government. Kill them and anyone near them."

NeuroticKnight@reddit

Yeah, taking In refugees is ethnic cleansing.

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redelastic@reddit

You say 'taking in' but you actually mean 'forcing out'.

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous.

Tripwir62@reddit

You’re an infant if you believe that any state would not protect itself from a murderous neighbor hell bent on its destruction.

But you should take great comfort in knowing that 50 years from now, when three more generations of Palestinians have had their lives destroyed by an unwinnable fight, that you were the guy that encouraged them to never negotiate, never settle, and never end the endless Jihad. You should feel pride in the millions of lives you helped ruin while comfortably sipping tea.

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redelastic@reddit

I support human rights and self-determination..

You support the mass killing of children and ethnic cleansing.

I'm comfortable with my position.

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Tripwir62@reddit

You are a child. With nothing but emotion to guide your opinions. You cry about the “children” but probably never even consider exactly what a “child” is. Is a 16 year old with an AK and a suicide vest a child?

You’re also incapable of adult discourse. I’ve said nothing like the incoherent nonsense you ascribe to me. Go back and lecture the 18 year old drunks who think you’re real edified when you say the word “genocide.”

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redelastic@reddit

And you support killing children.

The largest demographic of children killed in Gaza are aged 5-9.

Israel has killed over 1,000 babies aged 0-1.

If your notion of adult discourse is ad hominem and lying, I'm fine with not partaking.

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Tripwir62@reddit

Keep sipping tea while advising Palestinians that soon, very soon, Israel is going to just go away. Keep encouraging endless jihad instead of peace and economic development. This has worked wonders for 75 years.

People like you who intoxicate them with moronic fantasies are the worst thing on earth for these people. But I’m very glad YOU are comfortable. Because after all, that IS what it’s all about, isn’t it. How virtuous!

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redelastic@reddit

You seem to be imagining all these things I'm saying.

Yes, how dare people have basic human rights and be allowed to live. If it were up to the likes of you, everyone would be ethnically cleansed. What a depraved individual.

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Tripwir62@reddit

Are you impaired? What is a single “lie” I have asserted?

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redelastic@reddit

I'm bored with your immature ad hominem and lies.

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Tripwir62@reddit

No doubt.

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NeuroticKnight@reddit

Fair, if you agree this is a result of something that started on October 7th . it should be Israel since it was its response.

It might be more likely if Israel allowed Palestinians the right of return. They don't.

Any Jewish person who has never even seen Israel has the right to move there, but Palestinians born and raised there are not allowed to return if Israel denies it.

Just another part of the apartheid state.

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azure_beauty@reddit

"it would be easier for refugees to escape a warzone if they were let into Israel"

Do you hear yourself? You'll be the first one complaining if Israel was to establish a refugee camp in the Negev.

You know who will "return" to Israel? That's right, terrorists. Who will then will kill many more people and further the violence.

And when will we Jews get the right of return to our homes across the Middle East and in the Palestinian territories?

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SimplySebelle@reddit

So it's ethic cleansing, which the whole world is seeing. Leave so we can take your land, or we'll be forced to kill you (which will be on our conscious forever, poor us!) and take your land.

So gross to even pretend suggesting they leave is out of concern.

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azure_beauty@reddit

We don't want Gaza. And Israel belongs to Israelis.

But Israel can't fight a war with the refugees in there or they're accused of genocide, and can't get refugees out lest they be accused of ethnic cleansing.

You see how there is nothing Israel can do beyond stopping existing which would satisfy you?

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jolcognoscenti@reddit

We don't want Gaza.

There were real estate showings for Gaza land in Toronto, Englewood (NJ), Long Island & Hartsdale (NY). Why lie like this?

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azure_beauty@reddit

I'm happy for them. Those people are not us. We, as a collective do not want Gaza.

The fact that there is a few mentally challenged among us does not change the fundamental reality. Not even Egypt wants Gaza. One would have to be clinically insane to want anything to do with that mess.

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Ala117@reddit

I'm happy for them

I'm sure you are, settler apologist.

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azure_beauty@reddit

It's a sarcastic saying. I'm saying I don't give a shit about them.

Those people live in a world so disconnected from reality that there is no reason to even attack their ideas, because their entire ideology is a joke, and everyone besides them understands that.

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Ala117@reddit

I'm saying I don't give a shit about them.

of course you don't give a shit about the settlers' victims.

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ThrowAwayRaceCarDank@reddit

Israel could fight this war in a much better way than they currently are. See my comment here for a more detailed explanation.

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azure_beauty@reddit

You think AMERICA would be able to minimize civilian casualties?

You don't know what surgical operations Israel has done to rescue its hostages. Israel's special forces are infinitely more trained in combat and espionage among Arabs than Americans could ever wish to be.

Hamas leadership does not exist specifically because of precision strikes you praised. Israel learned from it's mistakes, it used to be far too careful.

Many years ago, practically the entire Hamas leadership was having a meeting. Israeli intelligence pinpointed the floor on the building they were in, and struck that flow specifically, leaving the building intact to minimize civilian casualties.

The intelligence was wrong. Aast second decision caused the meeting to be held on a different floor, and they survived. Now hundreds more had to die in these airstrikes targeting the same people.

The biggest problem with the war is the fact it's fought by conscripts who are essentially kids who don't know consequences.

That has little to do with the death toll or war crimes such as systematic destruction of houses for buffer zones, which america too would have done if it was in Israel's position.

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NeuroticKnight@reddit

Israel will continue bombing till Hamas threat is neutralized, I just want other countries to act with this in mind and take refugees.

Later when a new Palestinian state is formed, the government then can decide right to return, just as the new syrian government is deciding right to return .

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SimplySebelle@reddit

Surely...when 800,000 refugees fled in 1967, they were refused right of return which is declared a right by the UN in 1948.

So they can leave and never see their homeland again.

I'm done having five million arguments on this one post.

It all boils down to Israelis do not see a Palestinians as equal or even human.

So gross to even pretend suggesting they leave is out of concern.

You know, generally people don't want to be in a middle of a warzone. It's generally why refugees are a thing.

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SimplySebelle@reddit

Yeah, but according to the UN, refugees have right ti return. Israel just wants the land by hook or crook, thats why they keep bombing, starving, terrorizing Palestinians.

It didn't start in October 7th, it just wasn't as public.

Now the world can see Israel for what is it.

I will never again vote for any politician who is funded by AIPAC or votes to aid Israel and I will encourage those in my community to do the same.

You're safe tho, our politicians love money.

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VampiricCatgirl@reddit

Israel just wants the land by hook or crook, thats why they keep bombing, starving, terrorizing Palestinians.

Or maybe Israel wants it's neighbors to leave it alone but instead they start wars again and again.

Now the world can see Israel for what is it.

What? A country that defends its people? Oh such evil/s

I will never again vote for any politician who is funded by AIPAC or votes to aid Israel and I will encourage those in my community to do the same.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume you probably didn't vote in the first place as tend to be common with progressives.

You're safe tho, our politicians love money.

How did I as a person become relevant to this?

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SimplySebelle@reddit

I meant "you" as in the general collective of people defending an apartheid state.

You, specifically you tho, decided to say something specifically about me, which is very amusing.

Israel hasn't left its neighbors alone, its just not fair for them to react to that. There's a whole lot of history of Israel not leaving Palestinians alone, but we're supposed to believe this conflict started on 10/7. When in fact that's when Israelis started saying the quiet parts out loud.

Settlers, burning down olive groves, blockades on all goods coming in and out of Gaza, that didn't start in October.

Palestinians aren't even allowed to collect rain water because it belongs to Israel?

It boggles the mind that US leaders are so subservient to Israel, our country was built on resistance and fighting for Independence. But they enjoy the money so you get their souls. There will come a day when we are all judged for this genocide.

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NeuroticKnight@reddit

US isnt subservient to Israel, it is just that goals of US and Israel just align in that region.

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SimplySebelle@reddit

Ehh.. remember when Biden said you have 30 days to increase aid to Palestinians or you're cut off? And then Israel actually decreased aid, and we did nothing? We're giving billions or dollars to a country that has universal health care... Bibi does what be wants, and we just watch.

Not to mention to mention the high likelihood Israel stole uranium.

Not to mention the loss of rights we are supposed to swallow for Israel. Students getting arrested at peaceful protest, there are school teachers that fired for practicing BDS.

They are writing bills so no one can critize Israel.

When the rights of our country take a back seat to a foreign power, I'd call that subservient.

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VampiricCatgirl@reddit

You, specifically you tho, decided to say something specifically about me, which is very amusing.

I responded in kind when it seemed you were making it personal for some reason.

we're supposed to believe this conflict started on 10/7.

Nobody thinks it started in 10/7, but it's ironic how Gaza pre-10/7 had no occupation and only sanctions/embargoes/blockade on certain items on it due to Hamas using whatever they could find as weapons to make rockets they would then use against Israel. Another funny detail is the fact there was Gazans who had work permits go work in Israel.

Settlers, burning down olive groves, blockades on all goods coming in and out of Gaza, that didn't start in October.

The people living near Gaza wasn't wb settlers and the second part isn't true last I checked.

It boggles the mind that US leaders are so subservient to Israel

Or maybe like any rational person, they understand the reality that Israel is a more reliable ally.

There will come a day when we are all judged for this genocide.

That seems unlikely considering that there is no genocide, there is a war and wars suck for everyone involved.

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NeuroticKnight@reddit

Dont worry, you dont have to worry about that, if current trajectory follows, by 2029 when the next democrat may be running, AIPAC maynot see a need to fund them.

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lady_ninane@reddit

"it would be easier for refugees to escape a warzone if they were let into Israel"

That's not what they argued.

The fact that this is how you chose to summarize it seems to suggest you believe the only people who would ever seek safety and refuge within Israel to be Palestinian terrorists. Given the comments made by government officials and state media, many of whom have claimed every person trapped and stranded in Gaza is a militant, that's extremely concerning.

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azure_beauty@reddit

That's not what they argued.

So explain to me what they are arguing.

seems to suggest you believe the only people who would ever seek safety and refuge within Israel to be Palestinian terrorists.

Wrong. I support building refugee camps in the Negev to shelter displaced Palestinians. I think Israel is in large part responsible for the wellbeing of Gazans. You can't dismantle Hamas if you don't ensure someone else takes over governing.

What I do not support is the supposed "right of return" to places that no longer exist. I don't support Palestinians stealing homes from Israelis, and I don't support giving every Palestinian Israeli citizenship.

That is an unrealistic demand from the Palestinians which has been hindering peace talks for decades. It will never happen. Israel is a sovereign state. It will never take in millions of citizens who happened to live there 75 years ago.

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redelastic@reddit

You already made the Palestinians refugees once and now you want a sequel.

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azure_beauty@reddit

So you're advocating against letting refugees out of a warzone because you think you know better..

Us Swedes even sent a renowned diplomat who helped Jews escape Nazi Germany to negotiate in the 40s.

He got assassinated by Zionist terrorists for being "too friendly to the Arabs".

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tkhrnn@reddit

Not murdering, but it does justify killing of innocent civilians.

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

So Hamas were justified for what they did on October 7?

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tkhrnn@reddit

Hamas target civilians, The target being the key word. Civilians aren't a valid target. Meanwhile an intelligence Hamas operative is, You can try an argue over proportionality. But than you justify civilian casualties.

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

Gaza surgeon describes drones targeting children

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7893vpy2gqo

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tkhrnn@reddit

I am not moving to the next topic with you, unless you admit you were wrong.

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gravygrowinggreen@reddit

You argued Israel doesn't target civilians. OP refuted that. He wasn't moving topics, he was directly responding to your argument.

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tkhrnn@reddit

I argue that there is difference between targeting civilians and killing civilians as a result of cathedral damage. The latter is a inevitable fact of war. and the principle of proportionality is use to justify those civilian casualties.

OP doesn't understand the difference between the two, OP is too stupid to follow the conversation, OP can't admit they were wrong because it's not in the script.

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gravygrowinggreen@reddit

I'm going to repeat myself, because you don't seem to have understood.

You argued Israel doesn't target civilians. OP refuted that. He wasn't moving topics, he was directly responding to your argument.

Specifically, OP provided evidence not of civilians dying due to collateral damage, but drones specifically shooting the wounded and children, after the bombs had exploded.

If you are going to respond, respond to the substantive accusations made. Don't rely on your ability to assume what those substantive accusations are. Your assumptions tend to make an ass out of you.

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

Next topic? This is the same topic. Israel targets civilians, namely children.

Tell me something. Does Israel still have mandatory military service? Are veterans not expected to be available for active duty even after serving their time? So if Hamas fires rockets at a border town claiming to target IDF personnel, that claim would be perfectly reasonable?

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Zipz@reddit

So a doctor didn’t see this drone just heard from secondhand hearsay? Wild …

Let alone when did a doctor become a police detective?

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enilea@reddit

At what ratio? Surely there's a ratio that would be considered unjustified.

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Police stations are civilian infrastructure according to international law, aiming at civilian infrastructure to kill a person who may arguably be an acceptable target personally, while he is doing non-combatant things, surrounded by other non-combatants is absolutely a violation of the principle of proportionality, even in the very dubios case of it not being a crime for targeting civilians to begin with.

It's so pathetic how you people try to invoke international law, as if it was even remotely on your side, or as if you had any kind of understanding of it, because you heard from someone who skimmed a cherrypicked part of the geneva convention, something about human shields, and now think you can just use that to excuse any atrocity you commit, because Hamas has used human shields at some point. That's not how that works, and this isn't even an example of that.

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Zipz@reddit

That’s not how it works actually. Wild you try to change proportionality so you can be right about this.

“ It requires military commanders to consider the anticipated military advantage against the expected civilian harm when planning an attack“

Israel’s excuse is the Hamas police officer was gathering info on Israel troops. Clearly there is some military advantage to attacking someone spying on you.

If you don’t want to believe their excuse or you want to argue you still don’t think the struck was proportional that’s fine but you clearly are misrepresenting proportionality and the law .

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TheObeseWombat@reddit

That's not a misrepresentation, that is you being legally illiterate, and not knowing that violating a principle is possible not just by not at all doing the thing you had to do, but also by doing it wrong. You can't just say, "yeah, I have a military benefit here, so I don't care if I kill a bunch of civilians" and be in the clear because technicaly you "considered" it.

This was on it's face disproportionate, given how minor of a role the target had, and how many civilians he was surrounded by. Therefore, the principle of proportionality was violated.

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Siman421@reddit

It's not your decision whether the target has a minor role or not, nor are you a legal scholar fully capable of deciding whether proportionality was violated.

It’s amazing how you purposely left the other part out.

You miss the part where it says they were spying on Israeli troops.

Wild I got to ask?

How did you miss that?

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dyllandor@reddit

I suppose the police should just guess when civilians ask them what areas are safe and where there might be IDF soldiers around who'd shoot them on sight.

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ODHH@reddit

should just guess

That is literally how it works. The IDF establish arbitrary kill zones which are basically just what they can see from a sniper's nest and they kill anyone who enters it even if they are obviously civilians.

The Palestinians learn where these zones are by the well fed dogs that feast on the corpses that cannot be retrieved.

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Zipz@reddit

Wild how I call out a guy for being dishonest and then you respond to me with something completely unrelated

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dyllandor@reddit

Just trying to explain why police might need to gather some intel on enemy troops on their land.

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They killed cops, cops are not valid military targets.

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Zipz@reddit

I’ll ask again

Please go and read what it says this time. What was the reason isreal gave ?

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waiver@reddit

What is the point of calling that a humanitarian zone if you are going to bomb it anyway, how is it different from any other zone?

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waiver@reddit

If it was real (for which there is no evidence) it would still be unjustified attacking them in such a crowded area.

That's an interesting analogy, but it fails. You know what we did afterwards? We rebuilt Japan and Germany (more so Japan, but there are analogies to how we financially and materially supported western germany too). We offered them military protection.

At what point in the decades long history of israel's brutality against palestinians have they ever attempted to do something comparable to what America did for Japan in the decades following ww2.

the answer is there is no comparable point. At all points Israel has continued oppression, subjugation, and expansion of settlements. So your example doesn't really work. We both know you would never seriously argue Israel should spend the billions to trillions required to repair the damage it's done, to uplift the palestinian people. We both know you'd never seriously argue that Israel should abandon it's conquered/occupied territory and settlements, because that would involve admitting the settlements are ongoing and immoral. And you can't do that. That's tantamount to admitting Israel might be the aggressor in the larger gazan conflict!

Also, I've never seen someone who bothers to mention downvotes actually not care about downvotes. If you didn't care about downvotes, you wouldn't have bothered to mention them. In other words, the lady doth protest too much. I only mention it, because pathetic preemptive whinging about downvotes is why I downvoted you just now :)

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MCRN-Tachi158@reddit

At what point in the decades long history of israel's brutality against palestinians have they ever attempted to do something comparable to what America did for Japan in the decades following ww2.

You asked a question, and I showed you two examples. They are not analogies, because those situations haven't been reached yet by Gaza/Palestinians. Germany and Japan surrendered, disarmed, and received helped to rebuild.

Germany unconditionally surrendered May 8 1945.
Japan full surrender September 2, 1945.
Gaza full surrender ... ????

Why would Israel helped rebuild their attacking neighbor who's ran by a terrorist org, with the destruction of Israel in their charter, who was selected and voted in by the citizens, and just about each poll since that election would have chosen Hamas again, with the only other clear frontrunner for president being a different terrorist Marwan Barghouti. Sure let's rebuild Gaza to give Hamas more materials and money. They would have just built even better tunnels.

Su when Hamas/Gaza sign a full surrender instrument like Japan, full disarming, we can talk about whether Israel rebuilt them or not. But they're still ran by a government intent on destroying them.

I really don't care about downvotes. If I did I wouldn't make such comments because they will gain massive upvotes in certain subs, and massive downvotes in others, and would only stick to those where they get upvoted. I know the echo chambers.

But I like discourse, so I post anywhere. To be fair, this subreddit is more even than others. World News would be fully on one side, Global News Hub on the other, for example.

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tkhrnn@reddit

They will turn into terrorists if they won't be held accountable. As it was so far.

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Classic zionist mask off moment.

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meister2983@reddit

Do you think they might turn towards the same extremism that empowers Hamas?

They would have regardless, so doesn't matter

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gravygrowinggreen@reddit

So let me just summarize your beliefs:

Gazans would inherently turn towards terrorism regardless of Israel's actions. So Israel's might as well slaughter tens of thousands of the ones who had not turned to terrorism. Even though this won't reduce terrorism in any way, because Gazans are inherently predisposed to terrorism.

I'm going to go ahead and put you in the "secretly hopes Israel succeeds at genocide" column.

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"Personally, I hope that the slaves rebelling in the plantations turn toward other means than those of terrorism and hate- but I suspect it will simply result in more of the same in twenty years no matter what actions the Slave masters take- the people in the plantation in general are too deep in a spiral of hate for any recovery to possibly start from their own end."

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Siman421@reddit

Palestinians aren't slaves , don't compare.

All the mistreatment they get is from their own people consistently committing acts of terror.

Imagine if in 2005, when Israel left Gaza, they wouldn't have started sending suicide bombers. That wouldve meant there wasn't a blockade surrounding Gaza.

Slaves didn't cause their troubles, Palestinians did, literally since the 1920's.

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Ala117@reddit

Palestinians aren't slaves , don't compare.

Yeah they're treated worse than slaves

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Siman421@reddit

Maybe if they didn't commit acts of terror, they wouldn't be poorly treated. Keep in mind, I'm saying they started the cycle, all the way back in the 1920's. The first attack was by Palestinians on Jews.

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Ala117@reddit

Maybe if they didn't commit acts of terror, they wouldn't be poorly treated

So you're not denying that they're being treated worse than slaves good.

The first attack was by Zionists on Palestinians

Ftfy

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Siman421@reddit

Israel doesn't treat them at all, they aren't Israel's responsibility, unless you're saying the land they are on belongs to Israel.... (You don't get it both ways man)

I can give you a list of attacks if you'd like.

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Ala117@reddit

Israel doesn't treat them at all

Yeah they just bomb them

unless you're saying the land they are on belongs to Israel....

You certainly are.

I can give you a list of zionist histroy rewriting lies if you'd like.

Ftfy, and no thanks i know the real history.

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Siman421@reddit

I didn't say that. You did. Countries don't need to treat citizens of other countries, saying they treat them badly implies they are citizens, ergo , by you, Gaza is Israel.

You don't seem to know real history, you seem to know tiktok history That's ok though, living a lie is fun.

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Ala117@reddit

Countries don't need to treat citizens of other countries

Nor bomb them.

you don't seem to know real history

Yeah you really don't, not surprising.

here is a list of hasbara lies/ what i think are justifications for genociding and oppressing Palestinians

Ftfy, and as i said no thanks i know actual history, do zionists hate consent or something?

Or are you scared?

You don't scare anybody dude.

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Siman421@reddit

scared to loop up any of these attacks ay.

i knew you were a coward.

im not scary, its the truth that scares you. it will challenge your beliefs and it seems you cant handle that

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Ala117@reddit

i am a coward.

Ftfy

its the truth that scares you. it will challenge your beliefs and it seems you cant handle that

Explains why you're so frightened.

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Siman421@reddit

changing quotes doesnt make you look smart.

it kind of makes you look pathetic.

must be fun.

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Ala117@reddit

You do look pathetic yes, fun indeed.

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mnmkdc@reddit

Imagine saying this about Israelis. How would you feel about that? Would you attribute all the violence against Israelis from their own people committing acts of terror against Palestinians?

Imagine if Israel actually gave Gaza freedom in 2005 rather than maintaining a blockade, having strict building restrictions, and continuing to maintain they would never return to their homeland. Your argument would hold water if that happened and Gaza still turned to terrorism, but that’s not what happened.

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Siman421@reddit

You do realise the first act of terror was done by Palestinians on Jews right?

That my entire point, the violence they have done has caused the retaliatory violence. They started the cycle.

Israel gave them freedom in 2005. When Israel left, they made no blockade, they barely had a fence. Then Gaza sent suicide bombers into Israel and killed civilians on busses, which then caused Israel to make a blockade.

Don't change history to fit your narrative buddy. It's a bad look.

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mnmkdc@reddit

You’re not going to find a true “first” offense. Before any attack by Palestinians there was a public plan to colonize Palestine. To basically everyone, that’s an act of violence. Youre just going to pick whatever suits your interests and say that was the initiator, but it’s not at all that simple and who started it isn’t even especially important. The state of Israel honors Lehi, literally terrorists who were former Nazi collaborators, to the point of allowing a member to become PM. They still have a known terrorist minister to this day. This isn’t some conflict of strictly retaliatory violence. Both sides have a government that supports terrorism. Does who started it really nullify that for you even if you could cleanly point to a true starting point?

The reality is the acts of terror aren’t good no matter who does it. Blaming them on an entire people just because they were born in the same nation is idiotic at best. Regular Israelis shouldn’t be killed or oppressed because their country supports and arms terrorists in the West Bank or commits war crimes in neighboring countries. Regular Palestinians shouldn’t be oppressed because of terrorism committed either. Doing these things just results in more violence.

You can repeat that Israel gave them freedom but it won’t make it true. The blockade was already in place, and you probably should’ve at least googled this first. Gazans weren’t allowed to return to the homes they or their parents were ethnically cleansed from. That’s not freedom and you would absolutely not consider it freedom if Jews were pushed into Gaza and then put under these conditions.

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Siman421@reddit

You changed Israel making a blockade in 2005 , insinuating it was always intended for there to be one. That is wrong, it was a response to suicide bombers to procure the safety of Israeli citizens. A blockade was never planned, Israel was forced to make one. The state of Israel does not honour lehi, Many in Israel consider them terrorists too. What you're missing is that when Jews came to the area, they lived peacefully with the existing population, until in the 1920's the Palestinians started to kill Jews, which caused Jewish groups to spring up in return and started a cycle of violence.

The blockade was not already in place, it was literally built as a response, and your opinion doesn't change that fact. So again, don't change history.

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mnmkdc@reddit

I changed what? I said in my first comment that “Israel maintained a blockade in 2005.” That’s true. The blockade existed before the disengagement through the current date. The intensity changed, but it was there. There was never a time, despite your claim, that Gaza was free. Also like destroying power grids for a million people isn’t a reasonable response to what was happening. You also continuously ignore the lack of right to return, which is essential for Gaza to be free.

The state of israel doesn’t honor Lehi? They have an award named after Lehi which is an “award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel”. They defend the bombing of the King David hotel to this day. I’m aware many in Israel don’t like Lehi. I said “the state of Israel” to be clear I’m talking about the government. I’m literally making the point that the people shouldn’t be severely punished for an oppressive government.

Again, there was a public plan to colonize Palestine. It wasn’t like there was just peace and then random attacks. This isn’t me saying the Palestinians were justified in attacking. I’m saying that pretending it all started with Palestinians attacking Jews is a blatant lie. It’d be easier to pin the start of the cycle on the British than the Palestinians or Jews.

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Siman421@reddit

"The blockade existed before the disengagement"

thats the mistake. when israel left in 2005, they didnt build a blockade. only after the suicide bombers killed civilians in israel did they build a blockade.

the plan wasnt to colonize palestine, it was just to live there. there wasnt a plan to have the people living there at the time leave, the plan was to live with them.

and its not a lie. they lived peacefully, then in the 1920's palestinains killed some jews, starting a cycle.

0 lies here man. multiple mistakes on your part.

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WonderfulPackage5731@reddit

the plan wasn't to colonize palestine, it was just to live there.

Really? Because that's the exact opposite of what the zionist movement claims they were doing. They openly advertised their intentions.

https://imgur.com/a/JDwIHxu

The date and publication are shown, and the image is verifiable by checking newspaper archives.

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mnmkdc@reddit

During the disengagement process Israel controlled their own borders, the sea border, and worked out an agreement with Egypt to have partial control. There were heavy restrictions on what made it across along all borders. Gazans required Israeli permission to fish, to export various things, and for people to leave through any border. These were all reported amongst other restrictions within weeks or months of troops moving to the border.

The literal point of the disengagement plan was force Gaza into isolation so Israel could avoid a permanent peace plan.

Sharon’s top advisor explaining Sharon’s rationale for it:

The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem.

It was not to free the Gazans. It was because they thought that dropping the title of occupation would free the state of Israel from having to allow a Palestinian state. It was optics. “Demography” interfering with the idea that Israel was both a Jewish state and a democratic one according to the vice PM at the time.

It was explicitly to colonize it to create a Jewish state. That was the word they used. The British in the 30s said they failed to protect local interests by non Jewish communities and much more recently said Balfour failed by not stating it would protect Palestinian political interests as well.

I’m copying this from the Balfour declaration Wikipedia page:

According to the 1919 King–Crane Commission, “No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist programme could be carried out except by force of arms.”

So again, this is not some simple issue of who started it.

They believe that Hamas will return the hostages and resign so then the war will end.

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PhysicalWaters@reddit

My countries legacy is forever tarnished. Will be generations until we stop being known as the country who slaughtered children.

No excuses can be made anymore. This is a genocide.

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Ambiwlans@reddit

Israel was founded by terrorists bombing busses... There are few years in Israel's history that they haven't bombed children.

The current round of bombing children won't have any more impact than the one before it.

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banjosuicide@reddit

The current round of bombing children won't have any more impact than the one before it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. This time around you have governments taking stronger action against Israel, such as halting transfer of arms. I can't recall a time that the global political sentiment toward Israel has been so hostile. I also can't recall a time prior to this that people could so freely express their condemnation of Israel online without being banned/deplatformed.

PlinyToTrajan@reddit

I'm not precisely sure how my country's (the U.S.'s) support for Israel is maintained given this reality of public opinion.

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PlinyToTrajan@reddit

I'm not precisely sure how my country's (the U.S.'s) support for Israel is maintained given this reality of public opinion.

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inspired_corn@reddit

There is no going back from this. There will never be long term peace.

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No-Contribution-6150@reddit

Now why is that?

There's long term peace after what Nazi Germany did.

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cap123abc@reddit

Well the perpetrators who caused the atrocities were dealt with accordingly at Nuremberg.

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No-Contribution-6150@reddit

The entire country brought them in though right?

It's just wild to see lasting peace after millions were killed but claims that there can be no lasting peace, insinuating justified continued war which usually is just terrorist attacks.

It's literally reality. They don't scream "from the river to the 1967 borders".

I haven't seen a single video from Gaza in which a citizen hides their face for safety and demands hamas surrender. Have you?

Did you see a gazan try to stop the hamas militants from beating and spitting in the dead body of the girl they miled from the music festival and paraded around like some trophy?

I saw old women spitting on her, I saw women hitting her with sticks.

Go talk to someone who cares. I don't.

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

Did you see anyone attempt to stop the rape, torture and murder of Palestinian prisoners? They caught it on camera and let them finish.

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BackseatCowwatcher@reddit

Israel and Zionists would have you believe that Palestinians would rather have their children torn apart by Israeli bombs than live in peace.

Yes, and what happened in October just one year earlier? Ah yah- the fine folks of Hamas butchered a music festival organized and attended by the most active Pro-Palestine advocates of Israel.

Israel literally put money into Hamas to ensure a 2 state solution would never come to pass. Learn to read history rather than memes.

Israel has never once offered a sovereign country to Palestine. A "country" in which Israel controls the airspace and borders and has policing power is not a country at all.

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NoobOfTheSquareTable@reddit

*a majority of the land borders

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nothingpersonnelmate@reddit

The Nazis killed tens of millions of people over a six year attempt to conquer europe and exterminate entire races involving most of the adult male population of Germany. Hamas killed around a thousand people in a single day raid involving a tiny fraction of a percent of the population of Gaza. There's nothing like the same conditions in place for an acceptance of shared culpability for a major national effort because it just wasn't that.

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Thevoidawaits_u@reddit

you might be right Israel will not easily engage in peace talks after Oct 7th

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do you think my country is doing war crimes because of specific actions that might be war crimes

No, because of the multitude of well-documented war crimes Israel has committed.

I do not wish to engage further with cheerleaders of ethnic cleansing and child murder.

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Theodosian_Walls@reddit

there's no intention to kill or displace all Gazans

This is a simple lie.

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Minister_for_Magic@reddit

this is not genocide this is just war.

Children double tapped by military drones isn't "just war", it's a targeted war crime.

Dead children killed by snipers isn't "just war", it's a targeted war crime.

Journalists being killed at the highest rate in the recorded history of war, including with precision munitions, is not "just war", it's a war crime.

When you start stacking war crimes like you're aiming for videogame high scores, nobody believes your bullshit claims.

I hope you feel the same when America finally stops defending your disgusting actions and you get to face the inevitable consequences of your actions.

Repeatedly attacking weaker groups for decades while wailing about being the victim is a clear sign of mental illness and it appears the Israeli government is wholeheartedly embracing that illness.

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randompersononearth9@reddit

Bullshit, you are full of hate and don't even know or acknowledge it. There is no way this or any action in the past was just without hating a group for who they are.

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Thevoidawaits_u@reddit

there's definitely hate don't get me wrong, two groups fighting will definitely hate each other. but it is mostly for actions not identity. and even with all the hate I don't think the actions amount to genocide

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GrenadeLawyer@reddit

Don't know about your legacy mate - because clearly you aren't Israeli - as your comment history proves.

Fake account.

I can tell you that I am perfectly fine with my legacy.

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Freud-Network@reddit

This is your legacy all the way back to the Canaanites.

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Godklumpen@reddit

Nah, war is always like this. It will take time, but it will always be history one day. What’s important is to win the war.

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Theodosian_Walls@reddit

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

The cartels aren’t launching brazen attacks that massacre civilians

They might if Americans started trying to colonize Mexico.

Oh, right...

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Shellz2bellz@reddit

So you just don’t have any idea what colonization means? You realize it’s not a word you can just slap on anywhere to gain moral high ground, right?

It’s also clear you didn’t read your own article. Those aren’t even Americans lol. That cults been in Mexico for a hundred years. Maybe you should try reading the entirety of articles before you link them rather than just posting the first headline you find off google

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Ivaninvankov@reddit

Assuming the cartels(which are not the Mexican govermnent) were to do a similar-level attack to Oct 7th, taking hostages, rapes, mass-murder etc.

Wouldn't America simply go into Mexico, free their citizens and hunt down the cartel members to the last man with the full force of their military

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Waffles86@reddit

No, there’s no excuse for the genocide taking place.

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Ivaninvankov@reddit

Did you respond to the wrong comment?

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Waffles86@reddit

No, I responded to the right one. You’re trying to say any country would go in to save hostages with the full force of their military, in an excuse for the genocide taking place. To try and normalize what’s taking place.

There is no excuse for genocide, so making up imaginary scenarios where one superpower does the same thing in a hypothetical situation is absurd.

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Ivaninvankov@reddit

I don't think I mentioned any genocide? You're the one adding that part.

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

I certainly did read it.

The LeBarón group's patriarch, Alma "Dayer" LeBarón, established Colonia LeBarón in Chihuahua in the 1920s.

Can you tell me what "colonia" means? My spanish is not great.

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Shellz2bellz@reddit

So again, you’re tacitly admitting you don’t understand what colonization is. Do you think North Korea is also a democratic republic? Or are you smart enough to recognize that names often times aren’t accurate to what a place is?

Way to completely ignore the rest of my comment though as well. Your bad faith in this thread is becoming evident

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

"Words don't actually mean what they mean when it's convenient to me."

This is a stupid argument anyway, I have better things to do with my time.

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Shellz2bellz@reddit

It’s certainly easier to run away when your argument gets destroyed than to actually move on with the discussion, I’m sure.

So you’re under the belief that North Korea is a democratic republic, correct? That’s what you’re arguing, right? That all names are literal and accurate and that no word can have multiple meanings?

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Zipz@reddit

What are you talking about ?

Gaza hasn’t been carpet bombed it’s wild how people keep saying this. Look up Dresden this isn’t comparable to carpet bombing as much as you like to pretend

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demonspawns_ghost@reddit (OP)

You are correct. The IDF are actually going in, rigging buildings with explosives, then blowing them up. Not quite carpet bombing, but the effects on infrastructure are very similar.

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Zipz@reddit

No it’s not anyway. How the goalposts move. Again you should actually look up carpet bombing. It’s not comparable

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redelastic@reddit

Ah, you support collective punishment, war crimes and ethnic cleansing. Well done you.

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partnerinthecrime@reddit

Hamas is not an ethnicity.

This is so tiresome.

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redelastic@reddit

Well, duh. Seems like basic concepts are a struggle for you.

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G3N0@reddit

Cheering on genocide should be tiresome. Consider having a soul instead.

Where is this hardline vile willingness to carry out violence against you know, the occupiers? The party that holds the damn power in the land and uses it to ethnically cleanse and carry out state sponsored pogroms. What? Can we apply your logic against those terrorists? Or are you suddenly considering them to be human unlike Palestinians.

What a disgusting, Zionist mindset you have. A fascist one.

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Metworld@reddit

Since when does Israel care about the hostages?

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cultish_alibi@reddit

Even the babies aren't innocent to you, are they?

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partnerinthecrime@reddit

The tragic casualties of this war are children

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

They have never been offered a fair deal without at least one or two poison pills that would make anyone refuse.

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No-Contribution-6150@reddit

Probably better to take a deal and start there then end up the way they did.

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dyllandor@reddit

Just look at the West Bank settlements and you'll know what happens when Palestinians try to work with Israel.

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SymphoDeProggy@reddit

West bank is far from "trying to work with israel" west bank is not working with israel but also not having the administrative control to do anything against israel.

Thormeaxozarliplon@reddit

You're braindead.

It was the IDF who set up the humanitarian zones and safe zones in the first place and issued evacuation orders for civilians to flee to them.

Just because Hamas or PIJ won't respect them doesn't put the blame on the IDF. If they fire rockets from them the IDF will target them. They are not "fire rockets from here for free" zones. Terrorists are not allowed to use hima shields and get away with it.

I'll also remind you that there is no obligation for the IDF to even designate these zones or issue evacuation orders. The IDF has given up an extreme tactical advantage by doing these things in the interest of reducing civilian harm.

Never been there

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Killeroftanks@reddit

not really.

a 2000lb bomb has about 1000lb of tnt equivalent explosive mass, which can kill people upto i wanna say 200 meters away? or about 650 feet away or 2 football fields....

also you can only really mount 9 bombs to a single pylon so you can either use 9 2000lb bombs or 9 500.

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Israeli airstrike hits a Gaza humanitarian zone as Netanyahu OKs a delegation to talks in Qatar

By WAFAA SHURAFA and FATMA KHALED

Updated [hour]:[minute] [AMPM] [timezone], [monthFull] [day], [year]

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli airstrikes killed at least 40 people, including several children, across the Gaza Strip on Thursday, hitting Hamas security officers and an Israeli-declared humanitarian zone.

As the daily bombardment continued, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office said he had authorized a delegation from the Mossad intelligence agency, the Shin Bet internal security agency and the military to continue negotiations in Qatar toward a ceasefire deal.

Israeli media said the delegation would depart on Friday. There was no immediate Hamas comment. The U.S.-led talks have repeatedly stalled during 15 months of war.

The Israeli strike in the seaside humanitarian zone known as Muwasi occurred as hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians have been huddling there in damp winter weather.

“Everyone was taking shelter in their tents from the cold, and suddenly we found the world turning upside down. Why, and for what?” said Ziyad Abu Jabal, displaced from Gaza City.

The early morning strike killed at least 10 people, including three children and two senior Hamas police officers.

Israel’s military said it targeted a senior police officer, saying he was involved in gathering intelligence used by Hamas’ armed wing in attacks on Israeli forces.

Another Israeli strike killed at least eight people in Deir al-Balah in central Gaza. The men were members of local committees that help secure aid convoys, according to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, which received the bodies. An Associated Press journalist there confirmed the toll.

There was no immediate comment from Israel’s military.

In southern Gaza, the military killed five policemen in eastern Khan Younis. Israeli government spokesman David Mencer said the strike targeted the head of the Hamas internal security force in southern Gaza.

“Where did we find him? Where else, but of course hiding in the humanitarian zone in Khan Younis, where Gazans are sheltering from this war,” Mencer said.

Israel has repeatedly targeted Gaza’s police during the war, contributing to a breakdown of law and order that has made it difficult for humanitarian groups to deliver aid. Israel accuses Hamas of hijacking aid for its own purposes.

The Hamas-run government had a police force numbering in the tens of thousands that maintained a high degree of public security before the war, while also violently suppressing dissent. Now officers have largely vanished from the streets in many areas.

Meanwhile, three Palestinians were killed in an Israeli strike that hit a group of people walking in the street in Maghazi in central Gaza. Their bodies were taken to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital.

And late Thursday, Israeli strikes in Maghazi and in the Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza killed at least 14 people, including five children. They were taken to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, where an AP journalist counted the bodies.

The war was sparked by Hamas-led militants’ Oct. 7, 2023 attack into Israel. The militants killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and abducted around 250. Around 100 hostages are still inside Gaza, at least a third believed to be dead.

Israel’s offensive in retaliation has killed over 45,000 Palestinians in Gaza, according to the territory’s Health Ministry, which says women and children make up more than half the dead. The ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants in their tally.

Israel’s military says it only targets militants and blames Hamas for civilian deaths because its fighters operate in dense residential areas. The army says it has killed 17,000 militants, without providing evidence.

The war has caused widespread destruction and displaced some 90% of Gaza’s population of 2.3 million, many of them multiple times.

Hunger is widespread. Children, some barefoot or in sandals, waited in line with metal pails or other containers at a food distribution center in Deir al-Balah on Thursday.

Netanyahu leaves the hospital after surgery

Netanyahu was released from the hospital Thursday after having prostate surgery Sunday.

Doctors at Hadassah Ein Kerem Hospital said Netanyahu was recuperating well, although he has a period of recovery ahead. Despite doctor’s orders to remain hospitalized, the 75-year-old leader briefly left the facility to participate in a vote in Israel’s parliament on Tuesday.

Netanyahu has vowed to press ahead in Gaza until Hamas is destroyed. But the militant group, while greatly weakened, has repeatedly regrouped in parts of the territory — notably the largely isolated north — after Israeli forces withdraw.

___

Khaled reported from Cairo.

___

Follow AP coverage: https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war

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Hi empleadoEstatalBot,

We've found 350 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:

The Straits Times (Leans Right): "Israeli strikes kill at least 17 Palestinians in Gaza, Wafa reports"
Washington Top News (Center): "Israeli strikes kill 12 in Gaza as war grinds into the new year with no end in sight"
palinfo.com (Left): "Israel massacres more civilians in Gaza on first day of new year"

Of all the sources reporting on this story, 38% are left-leaning, 27% are right-leaning, and 35% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 350+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.

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