Devs who successfully transitioned to self-employment - how did you do it?
Posted by daddygirl_industries@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 110 comments
Started developing around 2013, enjoyed almost a full decade of the bull run - post covid, have been laid off or fired 4 times. I'm a good engineer, but sadly am not very good at office politics and being a general "hype" person for the company, which seems to be an essential part of the job these days. I am burnt out and completely done spinning plates trying to figure out how to make myself paletable for the current job market.
I'm ready to make the jump to self-employment, but I'm not sure where to start. Looking to learn from others who have treaded this path before me. Experienced devs who have made the jump - what was your process for getting yourself set up as self-employed? What did you do that worked? Didn't work? Where's a good place to start? How did you discover your "niche"?
Looking to hear your story and/or any advice that may help me, or any other of us, get started on this next big leap into the void.
Physical-Shape2865@reddit
Capisco benissimo cosa intendi, le dinamiche d’ufficio possono essere davvero pesanti. Sono passato al freelancing un paio di anni fa ed è stato un vero punto di svolta per me. Ho trovato la mia nicchia semplicemente buttandomi su progetti che mi entusiasmavano e creando un contatto diretto con i clienti. Una piattaforma che per me ha funzionato bene è FreelanceDEV: aiuta davvero a trovare i progetti e i clienti giusti in Italia. All’inizio, concentrati soprattutto sulla costruzione di un portfolio e non avere paura di contattare potenziali clienti. Puoi farcela!
Crychair@reddit
By self employment do you mean starting your own software company? Micro SaaS is very popular but you need to have a product and be a salesman, which maybe is what you said you don't want to do. Or do you mean freelancing? Freelancing can work depending on what your focus is. Very popular to just make websites and such for different companies, but I'm sure this is more competitive than it's ever been. The other option is contracting. I'm doing this and it's nice in the way that I don't have to do annual reviews or anything but I'm also only promised 6 months of work at a time where I might need to find a new client. Also no benefits so charge accordingly.
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
Definitely more freelancing/contracting, where I can focus on dev work with minimal self-promotion and networking. I know it’s inevitable to some extent.
Synyster328@reddit
I got into it 4 years ago by forming "{Last name} Consulting, LLC" and putting myself as open to work on LinkedIn. Told all recruiters I was only interested in C2C/1099 work.
From that first gig, it's all been referrals/word of mouth
darkforceturtle@reddit
So you only contracted for companies, e.g you did work for them on a contract then left when your contract is over and so on? I know you said it's been through referrals but did you have to create a portfolio of your works or did you not need that because you're not a freelancer creating whole websites on your own?
Synyster328@reddit
I didn't create any portfolio, maybe it would have helped with some inbound stuff but honestly just posting my resume on job boards and keeping my LinkedIn up to date was enough to keep work coming in.
darkforceturtle@reddit
Thanks for replying, glad it worked out for you. May I ask if you needed to learn WordPress or did you stick with the tech stack you already had experience with?
Synyster328@reddit
I didn't adjust my skillet at all, just kept upskilling at my own pace due to the projects I worked on, both professionally and on the side. Mainly spent time learning how to be effective with generative AI starting in 2021 which turned out to be a lucky investment.
darkforceturtle@reddit
Thank you, all the best on your journey.
piratebroadcast@reddit
any tips on forming the LLC? I live in a state that has a high tax rate and high LLC formation cost and would absolutely love to go the Delaware / Wyoming LLC route but hear I would have to regster as a foreign LLC in my home state. That said, I dont even know what state my clients would be from. Its all very confusting.
revolutionPanda@reddit
I'm not a lawyer or CPA, but if you're a single person LLC, you're "pretty much" taxed like an individual since it's considered a pass through entity. Just spend a couple hundred dollars to form an LLC and then worry about reducing your tax when you actually have an income. You're trying to solve a problem you don't have yet.
Guilty_Serve@reddit
There's a few websites out there that are known to help if you're creating startups:
https://stripe.com/en-ca/atlas
https://www.firstbase.io/
https://www.clerky.com/
https://www.zenbusiness.com/
Other than that you consult with a lawyer.
hashtag-bang@reddit
Forming companies in Delaware is based on the legal systems and laws there, rather than it being related to taxation.
I’m definitely not an expert, but as I understand it, they have a well defined court system to deal with corporate/business law specifically. And it’s pretty efficient and clear on how things work, etc.
csanon212@reddit
You are taxed based on residency, not state of formation. If you want to save 12% from California, you can move
Synyster328@reddit
I don't know all the ins and outs of the whole Delaware thing, I feel like it only starts to matter when you're making serious money or get investment.
I just went to my state's business website and registered online, was super painless and didn't cost nearly as much as something like Legal zoom. It's easy to overthink everything but a year later and you'll laugh at how trivial it all was. After filing you go to the IRS website to get an EIN and that's equally painless. Then you can get a credit card to run all your stuff through to easily separate things from your personal finances. I used a separate checking account too.
revolutionPanda@reddit
How does that conversation work when they're trying to fill a contract role, but you want to be more like a B2B relationship? It seems like a lot of people looking for contractors really want to have an employee with set hours without paying benefits instead of working with another business entity that's more concerned without outcomes.
Ttbt80@reddit
Sorry to say, but with freelancing, self-promotion is about 90% of what will make you successful, and at least 50% of your job description (marketing, sales).
The role that you’re dreaming of that is as close to 100% hands-on development only exists in organizations that are large enough for it to make sense for one person to only focus on development.
Put another way - if you want to find a 6-month contract, and let’s say you earn a client on 10% of proposals you submit, and you are doing enough outreach to get 1 lead to want your proposal per week… then you’ll expect to spend 2.5 months searching for a client. Unless you want to only be paid ~9 months out of the year (1.5 contracts), you’d need to be doing this outreach and sales in addition to whatever contract you’re currently working on.
So it’s a fair estimate to say that if you’re solo freelancing, you’ll have a 5%-10% hit rate on your cold outreach, so you’ll need 100-200 emails sent to the right people, of which about 10 will want to talk to you, of which 1 might buy your services.
So in other words, expect to be constantly prospecting and selling if you go this route.
mambiki@reddit
I think you might’ve just killed his whole idea of freelancing. Every time I consider it, things you said pop in my mind and I go back to regular jobs.
Ttbt80@reddit
I’m sure it wasn’t what he wanted to hear, but better that they are prepared.
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
What I want to hear is the truth, brual as it may be. I'm trying to orient myself to the reality of what I'm lurching into - without the false security of soothing contrivances. So thank you for being upfront.
Ttbt80@reddit
You’re welcome - best of luck!
Kenny_Lush@reddit
Exactly. I knew a design engineer that started his own shop. He was so busy with all the “business” crap that he had to hire someone to do the fun work that he wanted to do in the first place. He ended up going back to a day job to be the one doing the fun stuff.
RedditDiedLongAgo@reddit
Nothing like running your own business to realize how code is the easy part.
Meeesh-@reddit
For the places you got fired, what was the reasoning? If you don’t like dealing with people, then finding the right dev role as an employee seems more like what you need.
There are teams out there that have space for devs that do best when they can put their head down and work. If you find a place like that and a supportive manager, you’ll be able to thrive and not worry about the bullshit that happens with being self employed.
Some people love it, but it’s repeated work that you need to do to maintain a network and line up jobs. At the start it will be majority of networking and marketing.
That’s as opposed to a full time salaried job where you can find the right team and stay there as long as possible.
revolutionPanda@reddit
Networking and marketing/sales is about 50% of being a freelancer.
Guilty_Serve@reddit
It's all self promotion. You have zero social capital or network. The best way to deal with that is promote yourself as a high quality developer, give an hourly rate, and then discount it with people the can increase your social capital. People will say that you shouldn't do that and the prices is the price, but they know nothing about business and why so many rich people get shit for free.
How do you find out who those people are? Heartbreak. People are going to rip you apart and promise you the moon until you understand how to eye them up.
reddit-poweruser@reddit
Someone mentioned "find your Steve Jobs" and that actually really applies to my experience when I started a consultancy.
I started it with 4 other people. One of which spearheaded finding clients/networking and dealing with the clients. He also billed hours working as a product manager/eng manager for some of our clients, so you should really consider finding a partner.
I will say that freelancing can really be rough. I'm a rockstar at any company I work at. I can take a day off and I still get paid the same. With freelancing, I am very expensive and not part of the team and they will treat you that way at times.
Also, never do fixed bid projects unless you want extreme burnout when things go sideways.
It is intensely rewarding to try to build something, though. If it weren't for covid and a fixed bid project gone wrong, we might've really grown into something
RegrettableBiscuit@reddit
Find the Steve Jobs to your Woz, or it won't work.
darkforceturtle@reddit
Hi OP, I'm in a similar situation, did you figure out how to start self-employment?
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
Nope - nobody wants to network right now.
sheriffderek@reddit
What do you want to be doing exactly?
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
My skillset lies in the intersection of coding and design, having worked primarily as a front-end turned full-stack engineer, but I can pick up most any toolchain.
I get everyone’s journey to self-employment will be different, which is why I’m thinking it’s more fruitful to ask for personal stories and generally universal tips to get started on my own journey.
sheriffderek@reddit
My story started out as freelancing while I learned HTML and CSS in 2011ish. Friends of friends. Then some more complex sites with CMSs and things like that. So, I was already self-employed to start. But then I got a job at a dev shop, a startup etc. and got more experience. At some point, I was back to freelancing and, during that time, noticed that my clients really needed more help understanding what they actually needed (not just someone to "code things" for them). So, I changed my title to "consultant." That changed the conversation. I got lots of contracting jobs and jobs auditing codebases and things. It sounds like we have similar skillsets. But another thing I noticed is that I could be helpful in other ways besides code or visual design. I could help people reframe / and see things differently. I could help them build teams. I could help with UX and goal-driven design systems. I ended up taking a few more job jobs as sr product designer or sr developer - but then I decided to start teaching lean design/dev. So that's what I do now - but I also still work as a designer/dev building web applications too. Right now, I'm starting a new agency with a past colleague of mine. They are doing most of the work, bringing in the leads. So, where should you start? I'd collect your past work - and reframe it into a few case studies that explain your process. Then I'd answer that question I asked above "What do you want to be doing exactly?" Then I'd look at your past work and tailor that story to that thing you want to be doing (not "coding" but - much more specifically, what types of things you want to be designing and building). Build out a website of some sort that displays what you're about. Tell people about it. Get your first client and build from there.
darkforceturtle@reddit
Interesting journey, thanks for sharing. May I ask where do you tech your tech skills? Do you have an online course or do you teach at an institute or something? I've been thinking of going the teaching route for a while.
You also mentioned building a website in case of wanting to go freelancing, so it should contain some strong mock websites or something to market to clients?
sheriffderek@reddit
> where do you tech your tech skills
I teach in person, via mentor cruise, and at perpetual education. I also speak at conferences and things like that. But most of my official teaching is through PE.
> You also mentioned building a website in case of wanting to go freelancing, so it should contain some strong mock websites or something to market to clients?
Yes. You're going to need to prove your skills / and show the type of things you're good at. Most people just skip the "being good at things" (specific things) - and well, then they aren't hirable - and likely not going to have much to teach either.
Ace-O-Matic@reddit
Self-Employment requires missives amounts more of interpersonal skills than being an individual contributor skills.
Also, I'm finding it very odd that you've grouped "fired" and "laid-off". As these are categorically very different things and being "fired" four times in 12 years of work is a pretty big red flag. I've only worked a bit less than two years than you and I've only been laid off once as part of department wide layoffs and I've been paid to quit and sign an NDA once. I have had no other departures outside of "I feel like doing something else now".
In fact, I don't know of a single college of mine who was good a dev that was fired. Being fired usually means a pretty serious breach of trust.
Ttbt80@reddit
My last comment probably felt unhelpful, so I’ll try to be more helpful.
You need to get a job at an agency first. Get a feel for what it is really like, upskill on all of the things you don’t understand today (pitching clients, designing/pricing contracts, finding new customers, brand building and brand promotion, etc.).
I have a feeling that once you’ve done that, you’d realize that freelancing is going to have a lot more of the things you don’t like than the things you do. Sorry.
Maybe look deeper into why you’ve been fired 1-3 times and pick up some books like “How to Win Friends and Influence People” (horrible title, great advice). From an impartial perspective, it sounds like your ego is making excuses to save yourself some pain. It’s probably not as simple as the fact that you’re “not enough of a hype man for the company.”
FlutterLovers@reddit
Regular employment is one customer. Self-employment is multiple customers. It's a bit harder to juggle, but is much more fulfilling, both job-wise and for your bank account.
It helps to be an expert in something with low supply and decent demand, and a relatively new user-base. Elixir is a good example of this.
Talk to recruiters for contract work. They have the connections you need. After the contract ends, you can sometimes get hired on as a freelancer.
darkforceturtle@reddit
Is it better to focus on looking for contract or freelance work? And if a developer who has been employed wants to move to self-employment, how do they market themselves? Should I create a portfolio of mock apps that I can do to show off to clients and recruiters?
Tolexx@reddit
What other technologies do you think also fall in this category?
Currently, I'm into Ruby and Rails. I have interest to go into helping companies maintain their legacy Rails apps which involves for instance doing upgrades, keeping apps in sync with recent developments in rails etc..
I have been keeping up and learning Elixir on the side but I'm also interested in other technologies.
FlutterLovers@reddit
Stack Overflows developer survey is a good reference. Find new and growing tech, and cross-reference it with pay. You'll see the tech that is wanted (demand) but not many developers use it yet (supply).
Sparaucchio@reddit
Is zig on the chart? I couldn't see it, but maybe I'm blind. Surprised to see scala that high. I've literally seen scala as a requirement only twice in my life
RobertKerans@reddit
It's location dependent, but it was Better Java for a hot while (until Kotlin arrived maybe?). HMRC & the Guardian in the UK were big on it
FormerKarmaKing@reddit
4x fired is not an accident. Others gave you good answers to the question you posed, but there’s more to this story.
And I’m not saying that because I want to hear it, tbh. I’m saying that because you likely have some interpersonal issues that you are glossing over.
And you know where your interpersonal issues will be become an even bigger liability? When you have to bring in your own sales.
Strongly reconsider.
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
It's all politics. I never quite figuresd out the "game" of how to get people to like me, perhaps I was too blunt, I'm not sure. I tried to mimic those successful around me, but it didn't seem to work. Of my jobs, I was fired twice, once because my manager never liked me and gave me an endless torrent of negative feedback, with zero positive. The second, I got fired for bringing a "suggestively shaped waffle" to a company potluck at the CEO's house, after work hours on a Friday night. Not kidding.
No_Scallion1094@reddit
Is your second anecdote supposed to be an example of an unreasonable termination? Because it sounds completely justified. It’s not office politics to fire someone for being wildly unprofessional.
And why would you bring a waffle to a dinner potluck?
stgansrus@reddit
I really hope this post is a troll. It’s hard to believe that someone can lack this much self awareness. I have worked with plenty of awful people who have NEVER gotten to the point of being fired. 4x is crazy.
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
That's what happened to me. it sounds like a SNL skit I know, but that was their justification for letting me go. I suspect that there were alterior motives, the product manager I worked with is very christian and I am a heavily tattooed gay man. It was a construction tech company, and I suspect they saw me as "out of place". I do not know.
squeasy_2202@reddit
Maybe they just didn't like the dick waffle
duhhobo@reddit
Would love to hear more info on the waffle LOL. Did you bring a dick waffle as a gag or is it more they accused you of doing so? Very confused.
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
It was from a place called Sugarwood near the CEO's house. I walked past it on the way to the potluck and since I was empty handed decided to get some. She found it hilarious, but she is European too. One of the very buttoned up Christian employees didn't and decided it was worth me losing my job over.
It's definitley a cultural clash, as I know every American here is going to say someting about being "overtly sexual", but I grew up in a world where nudity is not inherently sexualized. In Norway, I took saunas with my friends in the nude all the time, and the human body was not something to be ashamed of.
I'll chalk it up to a misjudgement on my part, but at the end of the day - it's a waffle, and it's a pity people took it so seriously. It was meant to be a joke, spark a bit of laughter, but backfired miserably on me I'm afraid. Lesson leant.
FormerKarmaKing@reddit
Let's say that you had no idea that your CEO gets hard every time he passes a Waffle House and that he makes his wife talk dirty to him using IHOP menu items. He simply misinterpreted your Waffles Siffredi dish.
But using the same account, you have also posted asking for people's stories about hooking up with people at work. So while I don't have all the details, that plus the terminations are a lot of smoke.
For context, on multiple occasions, I have been brought into companies to mop up sexual harassment related HR issues. And by issues, I mean guys getting their asses fired and made nearly unemployable.
Trust me you don't want to be them. But also, your co-workers don't deserve to have to deal with your sexual interests - or anyone else's - in the workplace.
So while I don't have all the details here - nor frankly do I have time to go deeper on this - you do need some outside perspective.
Put another way: you need to open up contributions and let someone PR some bug-fixes to the way the `Daddygirl_Industries` OS works.
The best person to do that will be a behavioral therapist that specializes in workplace behavioral issues and their fallout. And these definitely exist where you live in NYC because there are too many formerly successful men that have blown up their careers and personal lives via similar-but-worse workplace issues. Don't let that be your future.
Wishing you the best.
daddygirl_industries@reddit (OP)
Thank you for this. I see your perspective, but I must correct you in that the CEO is a woman. I'm from northern europe, and to me nudity is not inherently sexual, but rather an expression of humanity. The waffle was ment as a joke, to make people laugh, but it was interpreted as a sexual attack via the American lens.
I am ok admitting that my fault was not seeing it from the external American perspective, but if this happened in Berlin (where I lived previously), people would just laugh it off. They aren't so pearl clutchy over there.
Dear America: It's a god damn waffle for fuck's sake, lighten up.
Spidey677@reddit
Ahhhh spoken like a true manager. Wanna have a beer?
agoodapple@reddit
A previous employer asked if I could come back and did so on a contractor basis. Could that be an option?
ninetofivedev@reddit
That’s just employment with a slightly different set of rules. Which I guess is true for a lot of things.
agoodapple@reddit
I guess so. I have added additional, smaller clients too with the goal of not being tied too hard to the former employer.
gumol@reddit
Fix the burn out first.
You'll be doing more hyping up the company when you're the entire company.
ihmoguy@reddit
I concur. I would fix burnout first with sabbatical without leaving job. Meanwhile slowly start laying ground for your business, pitch your services/product.
Otherwise going cold turkey into unknown venture, no financial plan, and politics aversion, the burnout will transform into depression at first obstacles. I am not a doctor.
Admirable-Ebb3655@reddit
It’s easier to hype oneself than some other shitty company that you don’t really believe in (and rightly so).
minusfive@reddit
Network. But after a couple of years I was sick of it (despite being relatively successful), so I went back to a regular job. I was making 2x money for 10x work (self employed means you have more than one key position at a time, and a few secondary ones). Transitioned to big tech where I make 4-5x with 1x work.
wwww4all@reddit
If you want to be "self employed", then you have to learn how to sell.
You have to sell things, product, services, OF, etc. to customers.
Even if you're planning on hiring dedicated sales person, you have to sell the role to a good sales person. This is not easy.
If you don't want to learn how to sell, especially sell yourself, you stick with normal work.
UntestedMethod@reddit
It's true. If you want to do business as a developer, you have to think business more than think as a developer. Software development ultimately becomes one of the easier parts but is prone to high cost of time.
Identifying real business value is where a developer might stand a chance at being successfully self employed, but at that point one might quickly realize there's a reason why it probably makes a lot more sense to form a small business instead. Or else go back to the steady pace and specialized focus of a 9-5 instead.
st4rdr0id@reddit
These are bad times for contracting. During fat cow times managers would fill their teams with contractors, but now with the layoffs employers have a queue of newly grad devs wanting to work on-site. There is no reason for them to pay more for a contractor.
Reasonable-Country34@reddit
Are you saying there is no reason for them to pay for someone senior (an expert) as supposed to a new grad? I don’t see how that is the same. Contracting can still be great, it’s just very hard to get into as a junior, as it always was…
st4rdr0id@reddit
Exactly. The industry as a whole is fine with low quality. It has been like that since the .net bubble and the advent of agile. Most employers won't hire a 5 YoE or a 10 YoE candidate for a job that a 2 YoE can do for (perceivedly) less money.
I know I said "new grad", but a 2 YoE is pretty much a new grad with some job experience. 2 years seems to be the sweet spot for employers. They hire mostly these people. It's not actually about age, but to them age is correlated with lower compliance, higher risk of jumping ship and higher hiring costs.
csanon212@reddit
We fired all our contractors in December 2023, haven't seen any new ones since
AuburnSounds@reddit
Recovered from burnout first while staying employee
Got access to runway money thanks to chance, but I had piled a bit
For a product business: Pick an easy and stable market who demonstrably made people rich, preferably B2B. I picked B2C. Read "Rework" book. Don't read "Lean startup". Don't listen to anyone in startups or VC. Create products, plan to throw one away.
For a service business: I don't know.
Be aware that if you have faang salary it will be very hard impossible to match that, especially in b2c.
damagednoob@reddit
This is me too and contracting remotely saved my sanity. Not sure what it is, but contracting gave me enough distance between me and the company I was working for to not get embroiled in that nonsense. I think partly because the company thinks of you as a mercenary as well so they don't care about keeping you long-term, only that you're productive. Ironically, that's usually what ends up keeping me there because I get stuff done.
My route was I joined a remote-only agency. The pay wasn't great but it was enough to get me going. After the first job, a combination of networking and contracts found on LinkedIn have kept me gainfully employed for the last 8 years.
EnderMB@reddit
It's MUCH easier if you have experience working in consultancies or agencies, especially smaller ones. I briefly transitioned to consulting as a sole dev in a LLC, mostly because pay here in the UK (outside of London) is awful, but moved back out after COVID and ended up working at Amazon instead.
If you don't have experience in consultancy, the next best option is to make friends with other solo freelancers/consultants. My first client was through work, as someone I worked with decided to go solo and wanted to work with me, but my second and third were through contractor friends that were oversubscribed and didn't want to just say no to clients. It always amazes me that your fellow contractors are often happy to literally give you work, and vice versa. I'd say that 70% of my clients were from "rival" contractors.
IMO once you make peace with having a client, and then having more than one, you'll wake up and realise "oh shit, I'm self-employed now!". There are countless guides for how to price yourself, so as long as you price with a day as the smallest increment, you set a slight discount for paying within 30-60 days (huge tip!), and you are firm with being solo (setting your working hours, having stuff like indemnity insurance, being firm to not be treated like an employee), and you'll find it's a much easier transition than you'd expect.
jarjoura@reddit
I don't think there's any reason not to follow your heart, as that will motivate you to persevere through all the hard times. You'll learn pretty fast what works and doesn't.
However, I'm not sure what you mean by "hype" person.
Running your own company means you have to be a general "hype" person for your own company. The only difference is, your boss will now be your paying customers. Performance reviews will become your referral network and your income and promotions will be tied directly to the clients or investors you acquire.
I guess you have to ask what it is you want to do and what you're passionate about. If you know you can make money doing it, and have a client or investor ready to hand over money, give it a shot. It certainly can't hurt.
If you don't, then I don't know. Is it worth giving up health insurance (i'm assuming US), and other company perks?
pal4life@reddit
Maybe start with a part time contracting gig while you are looking for your next full time job. This can give you some initial mind space to understand what it is to work for yourself. And if it does not work out you can always be looking to get in to a new full time job or try another part time contracting role.
sorryimsoawesome@reddit
I did it as an interactive designer/developer. A few times.
Decide how you get paid. Project or hourly. Projects are better, but you have to know how to write estimates for them or else you won’t make much money. If you don’t, go find a job that will teach you this and get some experience doing it. Or you can go hourly which is fine for some. But, not really “self-employed” then is it.
Bootstrapping is easy cause all you need is a laptop. Maybe some software. Minimize any and all your personal expenses until you have real cash-flow. Figure out how to keep track of your estimates and turn them into invoices. Get a CPA and have them help you get setup for handling taxes. Form an LLC or run as a sole-proprietor.
And finally, Get a solid client with money who will consistently engage you in projects before making the full leap. Then Get referrals and/or network. Build a reputation offline. The right contacts can enable you to not have to play the bullshit self-promo games everyone else does. But you gotta be good, reliable and have your shit together. Find small businesses with $5-15m in revenue and target them. They understand good work costs reasonable amounts and can avoid nickel and diming each other.
anyfactor@reddit
I would generally recommend that you not do that.
Freelance work is unpredictable as hell. I do not like freelance work, and being a self-taught programmer, nobody would hire me, so I had no option but to do freelance work for nearly 5 years at the beginning of my career. It was hell. For the last couple of years, I have been doing full-time contract work for one employer, and I surely love the comfort of that. The work is great, the team is great, and it is comfortable work that I feel like I am naturally good at. I absolutely love my role and would have no problem continuing this role for the next decade.
Nothing beats full-time employment because of job security. Knowing that you have a paycheck coming at the end of the month is a truly incredible feeling.
And those who tell you to start "indie-hacking", do not listen to them. My employer bootstrapped a company from scratch, but he did that while having a full-time job. He answered support tickets while commuting and pulled all-nighters. Once the company became successful, he left his job to focus on it full-time. Then, after a while, he started hiring. He started many projects, but he always had a job while doing that. He is an incredibly talented engineer but at the end of the day, success in venture is merely luck. You do not need to be unemployed or self-employed to do indie hacking.
That is my take. I could be wrong. But I have seen the other side, and I would take pay security over ambition or high yet unpredictable income always. I would rather work in a dusty government office in a 3X3 storage room for the next 3 decades than deal with prospecting a freelance client.
va1en0k@reddit
You start when you find a client. I think these days it'd be mostly through your own networking, unless you want to join some kind of a terrible, low-balling, high-competition outsourcing website. Focus on finding your first client, nothing else
ccricers@reddit
It really does feel like there's a big contrast in working for a digital marketing agency and running your own agency. Those webdev shops have gotten the reputation of being a terrible low paying experience for devs, but on the other hand a lot of devs to on to found their own webdev shops.
va1en0k@reddit
The cycle of abuse continues
bicx@reddit
I started my consulting company, got my first client, and they continued to extend our contract. With that volume of work, they remained my only client, and finally we just reached an arrangement for my fulltime employment. So you could said I failed at self-employment. 😄
Mortimer452@reddit
Similar story here. Started doing web-hosting and design on the side in the late 1990s, by 2003 had a fairly large list of clients, maybe 300 or so customers paying $10-$25/month for web hosting. Quit day job, grew to maybe 600ish customers before cloud computing took over everything.
Saw my hosting biz dropping, got tired of paying obscene rates for self-employed health insurance. Had one big customer I was doing 20+ hours a week dev work, I just approached them like "Hey, instead of paying me $100/hr half-time as a contractor, wanna pay me $100k/year to work full-time and give me benefits?"
Mithril86@reddit
Those sites are 95% Indian... and the quality of work shows.
Though some of them let you filter to US-based workers... so might be worth a shot (make a few contacts and jump ship once you get enough).
Willbo@reddit
There are two types of outreach - local and global.
Local outreach is word of mouth, traditional marketing, building relationships, finding those local customers that want your service.
Global outreach is online content, SEO, backlinks and lead generation, and finding global customers that might want your service in another country.
Local outreach is so much more quicker and easier to build a reputation and to establish trust with your clients. You speak the same language, can see each other face to face. This is how I started and how I recommend anyone else start.
Global outreach is expensive and a long term pain in the ass. I wasted so much time trying to learn SEO, keyword research, backlink building, and honing in a sales funnel. It's a real grind competing on the global market, you have to spend a chunk of cash to differentiate yourself and hope for clicks, then qualifying those leads into actual sales is another ball game.
nit3rid3@reddit
In terms of freelancing, you essentially need to find a potential client with a problem which you can sell your solution to — and then support it. Finding problems is all about asking the right questions to the right people. Business owners that you interact with is a good start.
The more difficult path is coming up with a startup idea to pitch to angel investors. The best way to accomplish this is find a product that sucks yet is somewhat successful. It solves some pain point for a sizeable, but not enormous amount of people (keeps scaling costs lower) and then develop something better. The pool of users is already established which is a much easier pitch than trying to sell a bet.
besseddrest@reddit
You build your client list while you work full time. When the freelance work is so much that you can’t balance both, that’s a good sign it’s okay to go full freelance
revolutionPanda@reddit
FYI: Being self employed is more "running a business" than being a developer. Typically, you'd spend around 30-50% of your time doing none dev things like prospecting, marketing, sales calls, admin, accounting, until you're making enough to hire all that out.
tetryds@reddit
If you are burnt out having literally the entire company's worth of responsibility plus uncertainty plus dealing with customers is not the way.
Strange_Space_7458@reddit
I did it in the 1990s. I started doing custom apps for other companies in the same industry. Mobile computing was a brand new thing and I did a lot of that for field service. I had to go on site a lot to do installs and training on the apps I was selling, and I was constantly traveling and writing code in hotel rooms. It was pretty grueling, but I made a lot of money. I also got to see almost the entire country from coast to coast, so that was cool. One year I worked the whole winter in Los Angeles. I would fly out there on Sunday night and fly back on the Friday night red eye at midnight.
WrinklyTidbits@reddit
Do a good enough job that when they lay you off you get to send them an invoice for $700 for one day of work
devoutsalsa@reddit
I learned marketing.
zero-dog@reddit
I’ve been running a consulting/contract studio since ‘08. It’s all about hustling for clients. In ‘12 I partnered with a dude and all he did was hustled for new clients. That move cost me half my income but was worth not having to constantly stress about the next job. Consulting market has been eroding quite a bit over the past few years and jobs went from being in house projects to “staff augmentation” — basically working for a client as a full time contractor. Got tired of that BS and just started a FAANG full time employee job last week and very happy that I’ve doubled my salary and not constantly stressed about “billable hours”. It was a fun run but this is where I retire.
derpdelurk@reddit
From what you are describing, self employment seems like a very bad fit.
BrofessorOfLogic@reddit
Self-employed isn't really a concrete thing, it's more like a feeling or a marketing term.
There are many ways you can be "self-employed": making websites for local businesses, selling independent consulting hours to big corporations, running a youtube channel, building a custom app, building a custom SaaS, becoming a tutor, starting a school, giving advice to startups, etc, etc.
As long as you have paying clients, that's all that matters. And the hard part is getting paying clients in the first place. The hard part is not having the idea, it's actually building the business.
The most common flow is that you start your career out as an employee, then transition to independent consulting, build a network of connections, eventually catch something/someone on the way that ends up being a good match, and then you go for that.
The thing you catch on the way might not even be close to what you were expecting or hoping for, but if it's good business, and you can be your own boss, then it's a good thing.
CalmLake999@reddit
You find a client locally, almost impossible remote. I did it but it was a crazy effort. Then you make them clients VERY happy. Those clients TALK about you alot and their apps/web/whatever, that gets you ++ reputation and you gain more clients.
ALWAYS keep clients happy no matter their bullshit. Get rid of and identify bad clients early.
Tohnmeister@reddit
Typically self-employed people need to be good at both technical and political stuff. Are you sure you want to be self-employed if office politics is what got you fired four times?
Beginning-Comedian-2@reddit
Yes. Maybe not full-on "political" but need to be good at dealing with people.
nutrecht@reddit
I wrote about on by blog a while ago
Really the only "hard" part is getting work, and I had a network already established.
AngryFace4@reddit
Self employment is more “political” than company employment. You need to constantly sell yourself.
the_brilliant_circle@reddit
I have done freelancing off and on for years. If you are trying to find work quickly, the way I always jumpstart things is to just cast your net as wide as possible. I never use Upwork or Fiverr. Look for specialized job boards and small specialty communities dedicated to what you do. Potential clients will make their way to these places looking for help. You could also reach out directly to companies that need tech talent that they don’t specialize in themselves. I have gotten a lot of work from marketers and consulting companies.
Once you find some decent contacts your network will start to grow naturally and the work will find itself.
Another good way is to build something to help your potential customer and advertise your services along with it, but that requires more investment to get going.
perfmode80@reddit
Maybe a smaller company or startup where your work speaks for itself.
samelaaaa@reddit
I did freelancing exclusively and successfully for about five years, and now I do a bit of each.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the skills you have trouble with are the ones that are even more important for freelancing than for full-time work. This sort of self-employment comes down almost entirely to sales, networking, client management, and more sales.
PsychologicalCell928@reddit
I suspect many people did it the way I did … got laid off / company went out of business.
There were some early warning signs that certain employees picked up on. So we were already active in the search.
I had dinner with an old friend who described a problem they were having. Since I was multiple beers in I diagramed the solution on the paper tablecloth. He took that into work and showed it to his CIO. That led to a conversation …
However the firm had a policy for developers of offering them a six month contract to see if they fit in. Then they would transition them to full time.
One thing and another and the transition never happened - all related to company actions. They kept asking me to stay, increased my rate, etc. ultimately the company went through a major reorg and consultants and employees were let go.
By then I’d learned what I needed to know about running my own company, established regular time keeping and billing practices. I’d also picked up some smaller clients as favors to other consultants I met.
For example, there was a client 10 minutes from my house. They were already a client of a friend who lived 90 minutes away. They only needed a day or two every six weeks. He was happy to pass them off to me.
——
The biggest challenge I encountered was mentally transitioning from ‘developer’ to small business owner. Learning how to deal with the operational aspects as well as the sales aspects of the business took a while.
Also learning that companies hired you as a consultant for a reason. I started negotiating ‘notice periods’ into contracts after a few clients pulled the ‘it works well enough now so this will be your last day’ maneuver.
Nir0w@reddit
I don't know how you would define office politics in your case, but a large part of self-employment is selling yourself. If you're a self-employed individual who provide services to businesses, it may feel pretty similar to office politics.
Especially if you have one or two big clients from which you expect return business.
Adept_Carpet@reddit
If you don't like politics and hype, you will probably not like self-employment.
The exception would be if you can be hyped about one particular thing and it is in high demand, then it might work.
If you decide to try it out, I recommend reaching out to former employers. They were absolutely my best source of income (both as clients and sources of referrals). It is a nightmare trying to find work on job boards and such, not really worth it. I got a few mediocre leads posting in the monthly HackerNews threads.
Ten or fifteen years ago, Meetups were really great sources of clients. It's a big time and energy commitment but if you kept showing up a nice contract was almost inevitable. There were some growth minded people there who made it their business to learn what people were offering or looking for and make connections, and while they grew their own career this way it wasn't on a quid pro quo basis (or maybe I just didn't have enough quid to make them bother with the quo).
I see fewer of these people around, if someone is willing to play the long game it could be worthwhile.
kamronkennedy@reddit
In the self employed world that it sounds like you're describing you will always be selling. ABS is a golden rule to successfully freelancing and it suuuccckkksss. It's less "hands on code" while your hands are still always on the keyboard. It's relationship management over architecture management. It's more "do it this way" and less "what ways can this be done", because the in house folks either don't want to do it that way or they simply can't, and that's where you come in.
Are you sure you're not judging all workplaces based on a few? I've worked lots of places where they hype is not as required as other jobs.
kamronkennedy@reddit
All in all, self employment is not always a growth trajectory milestone for us. I'd argue its much more rare, not even uncommon let alone a common one.
dseg90@reddit
My journey:
Work at a great web agency, albeit with a retention problem: Last as long as humanly possible under terrible management, while being genuinely nice to everyone. I mean everyone, sales people, producers, clients, designers, heck, even the bad management. Not to mention your fellow devs, Jrs and Srs. (note that the rotation/retention problem is a long term advantage for you). It should be a given, but your work quality should be excellent, and more importantly, your work ethic should be the best you can muster. Keep your cool on stressful situations, don't point fingers when things go south, assume responsibility and work as a team to dig yourselves out of problems. People will remember that.
Turn your employer into your first client: After some time, start to tell said company you might be looking at other opportunities. Bonus points if you do this while working on a big ticket client, in the middle of the project. Say that you want more flexibility, and willing to work as a contractor in said project, but need less hours, more money, what ever.
Keep you connections up to date: don't just write a post "I'm now a contractor, hire me" and expect to get more work. If you played your cards well, especially in step 1, you should have no trouble finding great clients from former coworkers who went to other great web agencies, actual companies, startups, founded their own thing, etc. But you need to call everyone in your network. It's not a sales call, it's a "hey how are you doing? What are you up to?" call. Everything else will fall into place.
Rinse and repeat number 3.
I could go more in depth, but that was the gist of my journey.
andlewis@reddit
Find a recruiter that specializes in IT contact work. Do a short-term contract or two to get a feel for how it works. All the while be looking for new work and ideas.
ninetofivedev@reddit
Successfully? Oh I’m out.
AlexFromOmaha@reddit
Uh, I did it with a parent I could live with and no real responsibilities. For you to do it now, as an established adult, it starts with 6-9 months of living expenses in the bank. You can't skip this step. Contracts pay slowly, and you'll have unexpected expenses.
You have two ways to start: product and service. If you're going the product route, you're gambling that you know about an unserved niche that enough people will pay you to serve. If you don't know what that is, your months of living expenses turn into a very stressful sabbatical. You probably know a lot about how this works if you've worked for small companies or startups for any length of time, but you need to ask yourself all the hard questions about your skillset. There's the obvious questions, like can you really do both design and tech, do you know how to deploy on a shoestring budget, do you know how to get solid observability and feedback channels. There's the less obvious questions, like do you know the data collection laws for overseas users, do you know how to keep your own books, do you know how to make marketing materials to target people who aren't like you, etc.
If you're going the service route, you may as well keep your day job until you have your first client lined up. You don't want to peddle your services on job boards like Fiverr if you can avoid it. You don't have the reputation to compete on much besides price when you're starting out. It can be fine to fill gaps between "real" jobs once you're really going, but never start there. Local clients are best. You'll have to learn the language of marketing. Your ideal customer doesn't even know why it matters that you know Java and AWS or whatever your tools of choice are, because when you're a new freelance dev, you don't have the clout to court major corporate clients. You're looking for something like restaurants who really ought to have a website, or small businesses who can make payroll consistently but need to start automating things, or startups who need some temporary reinforcements. That's how you find your niche. It's like going viral on social media and now that's what your account is about. The thing that people pay you to do and you get back to get paid for it a second time? That's you now.
I don't recommend the life, to be entirely honest. I did it to prove myself, but I was happy to turn it back into a corporate gig in the end. That doesn't mean it's terrible, though. You eat steak in the good months and ramen in the bad months. You get a lot of stories. You get a lot of freedom. You'll learn things that your coworkers will really appreciate when you're ready to give it up.
tantrumizer@reddit
I had to move country due to my wife's career and my employer at the time wanted me to keep working for them but I could not remain as staff. I still have them as a part-time client 8 years later and I picked up another client who knew of my work in the same industry.
a_library_socialist@reddit
So I'm techinically self-employed, but have generally one employer.
You can start by asking your current company to take you C2C. Tell them it's for tax reasons.
Howeverr you're going to likely lose some money on that. You should make sure to negotiate the taxes they'll no longer pay and the like, but likely you'll have to leave some on the table for them as incentive.