They don't have a suitable hybrid powertrain for any of their large cars right now. They have announced new small and midsize hybrid powertrains (https://global.honda/en/newsroom/news/2024/4241218aeng.html) but no word on what the big cars will use.
I assume a lot of R&D budget is going to EV development so Honda is trying to squeeze all they can out of the current ICE platforms without doing a redesign.
WAYYYY too expensive to implement in an Odyssey unless you are okay with paying 50K starting for an LX model lol. That hybrid system was very expesnive
I'd call the Stepwgn a midsize though - it's 190 by 68, I'm not sure it's even on the global midsize platform (CR-V/Accord/Civic), it might just be a stretched Fit/HRV because of how skinny it is.
The current Fit is on the global small car platform, so I'm doubting that's it.
The Stepwgn is very close to the global Odyssey, though, so I could see it sharing a platform with that.
Sienna seemingly caught everyone off guard when it did the hybrid powertrain only and as a result, the Sienna basically has wait lists and people paying over MSRP 😂 Odyssey is a great value still but for people hauling it kind sucks eeking out 18mpg in the city when Toyota is getting over 30mpg.
I know it's definitely a niche for this segment but most people I worked with to buy a minivan recently mentioned the space packaging and the V6 oomph/smoothness as the deciding factor over the hybrid competitions.
There is definitely quite a bit of overlapping between people who purchase 50k minivans and luxury SUVs who aren't prioritizing fuel efficiency as much.
Case in point: C&D tested the Sienna Hybrid at 7.5 seconds 0-60, which is perfectly adequate/competitive on paper relative to most popular family vehicles, yet almost every review I've read has said it feels sluggish and noisy when pushed.
AWD Sienna hybrid has the “power” because it’s electric only in rear. FWD is lacking a bit but it is a minivan. The sister Highlander has had 3.5 L hybrids for a decade
A plugin hybrid should've been made 10 years ago, half these things are just doing school runs all week, thats an easy all electric trip.
Honda really move slow to their own detriment.
What I find odd is that despite their hybrid powertrain being designed to add a PHEV, they have zero PHEV options for sale in North America
There’s a PHEV Accord and CRV in China and Europe, why not here?
Especially since the clarity was a FANTASTIC PHEV. Really ahead of it’s time
PHEV is both a competitive play and tax incentivized heavily elsewhere.
The US incentivizes too but it requires a substantial battery to get the full $7500 credit and the US market never really embraced those outside of a few cars.
>There’s kind of a practicality argument too: these 40 mile EV range and below PHEVs rarely get charged in common use
Studies show that most privately owned PHEVs get charged enough to do ~30-60% electric miles. More electric range helps, but even the short range ones do get some charging.
I think they’re waiting for the Ohio battery plant to come online before they can start mass producing them. Otherwise they’ll release a car where there is no inventory. They can barely keep up with the hybrids they have right now
That’s why I bought my 25 Odyssey. I wanted to avoid all the gimmicks and touch screen BS. It’s funny how ten years ago, buttons on the dash were considered cheap. Now, you only find buttons on high end cars and everything else gets a screen or multiple screens.
That is certainly a change on my 2025 Odyssey. There is a button to control the rear fan speed and temperature. The larger infotainment screen probably allowed Honda to add more physical buttons underneath the screen.
Yes the 2025 restored full physical button climate controls. That and the less video game looking driver display was enough for me to pay a little more for a 2025 vs 2024. .
Are you talking about the one of the most durable electronically controlled planetary gear transmissions ever made in that is in use by millions of Toyota hybrids. Yes I will enjoy it. Of all the flaws on a Toyota hybrid system to pick
On the transmission would be pretty low
On that list
>You gonna pick on that too?
Dude you just came in here and picked on him for choosing an Odyssey because he decided to have different priorities on what he wanted in a vehicle by stating “Enjoy the $200 more a month in gas than my Sienna hybrid” and now you’re being super defensive because he decided to return the favor.
Maybe next time don’t just randomly pick on someone who may have different priorities in what they choose to purchase and then you wouldn’t feel “picked on” in return.
As an enthusiast, owning more than 70 cars, more than 10 motorcycles and having the opportunity to build and race many of my cars, a CVT transmission is the exact opposite of enjoyment. It may be reliable, but to me, a horrible driving experience.
If you want to talk about value and the cost of gas, it would take me over ten years, or any other buyer who drives their vehicle the average number of miles a year to make up the cost difference between what I paid for my new 25 Odyssey and a new Hybrid Sienna. I’m going to continue to enjoy a NA motor and conventional auto transmission while I still can.
A minivan is a strange hill to die on for enthusiasts driving.
I bought mine to get my three kids to the cottage without them fighting or feeling cramped but hey you do you. You wanna be like Senna in your wagon go ahead. The oddessy is not a bad choice we nearly considered it twice
I have two other cars for sporty driving, but I still want a pleasurable driving experience. CVTs remind me of Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber when he does the annoying scream. Lol.
We are fortunate to have choices in our purchases. Sienna for you and Odyssey for me.
I know this is not what the article was about but my mom bought a brand new Odyssey for about $27k in 2015. That model today is $41K. Yeah I know inflation but damn with everything becoming so much more expensive (food, housing etc etc) and salaries not keeping up she couldn't afford a new one today.
She's retired now and needed a new car as she was t-boned by a driver who ran a red light. She didn't need a third row but needed something a little bit bigger than compact SUV to some times haul grandkids so we got her in a 2024 Ford Edge for $30k out the door. Yeah I know Ford but it's new with a warranty and she's not going to be racking up miles on it.
The Odyssey EX-L that is $41K today was around $35K in 2015. What your mom bought in 2015 for $27K would have been an LX or maybe EX. These base trim levels no longer exist. Comparing like for like, the prices haven't gone up all that much.
The most interesting thing about this review for me is the comments around how quiet the Odyssey is at highway speed. Historically Honda vehicles are very loud at 70 mph.
“The real magic moment happens during the fourth-to-fifth upshift at roughly 95 mph, where the V-6 stays in VTEC after landing in fifth gear. Has any Odyssey owner ever had the throttle wide open at 95 mph? Probably not. But if you’re the kind of person who would uncover this Easter egg, you’ll be equal parts amazed and amused like we were.” Incredible lol.
I wonder this. My wife has anyone odyssey and I'm probably the first person to ever get over 5000rpm in it lol. Why bother with vtec the average odyssey driver will never see it. It does pull well in 5th gear though.
I test drove a 2014 MDX not knowing it had the hard VTEC switchover. I punched it and started giggling when it happened. Scared the shit out of the Carmax sales guy
Are they saying there's no speed limiter at like 105MPH?
Our 2010 Grand Caravan had one at that speed. German Autobahn proved the cruise would set at 105 as well. But man, that gas gauge sure did move fast towards empty at those speeds!
C/D remains my favourite car magazine/website for the reason that they have a sense of humour about car enthusiast things and they actually test the cars. Being reading them for nearly 40 years and that's held fairly steady all these years cause stuff like this makes me laugh while also showing that they actually run the cars through real testing.
Was good.
Then they made half the pages ads
Then they also made them half the size with barely any actual articles.
I was a long time subscriber until about 2015
They've moved to a 6 issues per year format with more long-form stories, so the ad to story ratio is a lot less egregious than it used to be. They also made the issues physically bigger so that the photography can really shine. It was a good change once I got used to the new format.
I was subbed to R&T, C/D, and Automobile back in the ‘80s (MT was far behind, imo). R&T had great story telling writers like Peter Egan but C/D was my fav for leaning into humor and ridiculousness more. It took itself less seriously.
I have a 2024 model and it definitely hauls.
There was a model 3 that was on my ass in a construction zone as there was a single lane. As soon as the construction zone finished, the ass rider switched lanes and started doing whatever flex they think they have. So I decided to floor it too. Made it to 160km/h roaring, and decided to let the model 3 pass because I had sleeping kids in the back 😂
I can tell you that one has. I went on many a road trip back in the day in an Odyssey and you would need full throttle when you are loaded down with bikes and a roof rack to pass people going up hill. Although most of the passing was only around 80 there were definitely a couple times on open stretches where we hit 95.
FWD on snows levels up to AWD on all terrains. Assuming room to store the extra set. AWD is overkill for most minivan users especially. Most aren’t towing or off roading at all. Honda foscused on packaging and interior space. Then Kia copied them. That Carnival hybrid is an abysmal architecture. Luckily the v6 is still available. Honda v6 is best but Kia does know how to make a nice interior.
This is factually incorrect, snow tires and FWD are vastly safer than AWD and all seasons or all terrains. AWD increases braking distances and only tires reduce braking distances in winter conditions.
If FWD on snows is safer than AWD on all-seasons that’s great. Point was FWD is very safe and can be made even safer. AWD is nice but more of a luxury than a necessity IMHO.
Correct. Point was FWD is fine in snow but if wanting to level up to AWD on all-terrains (what most drivers have). FWD on snows will level up. AWD is overkill for 90% of drivers if not regularly towing or dealing with lots of weather.
Most FWD drivers don’t have 2 sets of tires. Drive perfectly fine in all-terrains rain or snow. Having an extra set is always an option if have space to store. Need for AWD is overblown IMHO.
Where are you located? I don't know that I even realized they made two wheel drive versions of those because I'm pretty sure every one I see is an AWD model and I took it for granted.
Really depends on where you live! I’m in socal and was surprised to find that majority of the X5’s and x3’s sold here were RWD! I originally thought they were AWD only!
Sounds better inside than any stock 992.1 with a turbo engine... Also sound better than numerous sports cars on sale today on the inside.
Been inside/driven a S and Turbo model. Even with the fake exhaust sound inside and the performance exhaust or whatever is sounds like doodoo IMO. The way Vtec hits in the Odyssey is unreal regardless of the model year.
I will say that my 2023 Passport definitely has an audible crossover, if you know what to listen for. If I need the hard acceleration, I always hold on to redline, just to hear it kick lol
One of my first "car guy" moments I can remember (of real cars, not just Hot Wheels and Matchbox) was when I was 8 or 9 years old. Our family has just gotten a 2000 Honda Odyssey. For some reason, on a road trip, we had to pull off on the shoulder for a second. When my dad accelerated to merge back into traffic, he absolutely floored it (to be assertive, yet safe). It was the first time I heard an engine go to redline and the first time I heard VTEC kick in. It was just a minivan, but it was something special.
I hope the VTEC engines live on as long as possible 💙
My parents bought a 2000 Odyssey brand new and had it for 17 years. Drove it for awhile in high school and that thing could move for a 15 year old mini van lol
I had a very similar experience. the grease or whatever on the accelerator pedal made it hard to modulate from 0-10%, almost like it wanted to be in VTEC lol. My dad eventually got an X5 and I honestly preferred driving the odyssey. transmission started eating itself and it went to the junkyard. bittersweet memory
VTEC is likely done after this gen Odyssey, Pilot already replaced with a DOHC v6 no VTEC, much smoother engine overall but definitely takes some of the fun away. It’s an emissions thing apparently.
The J35 sounds great in every car with an intake the crossover is loud. Early J35 cars with vtec the [crossover](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PjFB8-XLrc&ab_channel=KennykaozII)) was glorious.
The J35 is such a goated motor. The HR35TT is just a J35 with stock crank and rods with two Nippon Noisemakers strapped to the sides lmao
God I love Honda
Still feels like they have zero product vision for this
At least they handled the noise. The old Odyssey was so ridiculously loud it sucked with young kids for that alone.
The Kia has the best interior and tech. The Sienna has AWD and hybrid mpg. And the Pacifica has the same as the Sienna minus reliability.
So best handling? Best for hooning?
**I have no problem with a sporty minivan but the fundamentals have to be there. I’d absolutely pay real money for a Lexus F or GR version of a Sienna. **
Actually it’s the best minivan at being a minivan. That’s a pretty good product vision. Try installing car seats in the second and third rows of each minivan and come back to me.
I really think the Sienna is a better minivan compared to the last gen Odyssey (haven’t tried the new one). The noise was unacceptable, the ride was harsh, etc…
Which is why I own a Sienna. Had three kids in car seats so it isn’t like we didn’t drag those damn seats from dealer to dealer putting them in and then going for rides.
Maybe the new Odyssey is better for that. I don’t know, I am right now only interested in AWD vehicles…
BTW: A crack team of Honda employees in Alabama races an Odyssey: [https://www.theautopian.com/did-you-know-that-the-honda-odyssey-is-the-only-minivan-in-america-with-its-own-racing-team/](https://www.theautopian.com/did-you-know-that-the-honda-odyssey-is-the-only-minivan-in-america-with-its-own-racing-team/)
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