On the upwind, are they supposed to track runway heading, or the course? I imagine if they tracked the heading, they'd end up being blown well off the runway centerline, so I'm curious
Technically he should be crabbing to stay on centerline once airborne, but once off the ground, they just switched to following a ground track heading after drifting off of centerline and they’ll probably continue that track until they get vectors outta there.
He will rather follow the SID. Depending on the plane anywhere between 200 and 400ft above the ground the lateral navigation will become active and you end up following that. Vectors directly after takeoff are very uncommon in Europe.
Thanks for the info. Didn’t even know this is Europe. In GA in the US, it’s almost always “runway heading, expect vectors”. But yeah, and airliner is probably more likely to get a SID.
Not quite. In the 737 there is a maximum demonstrated x wind not a legal maximum. The question is safe/prudent when it comes to crosswinds. Tailwinds are a different story. And wind shear/microburst alerts and severe turb
Looked awfully like a 737 in that video. And you said it so matter of factly. In the US most carriers don’t impose it the limitation, instead they pose the question “but is it a good idea?” (Probably not). Seems like that CRM discussion would get shut down pretty quick in your flight deck
If Any discourse on a topic that challenges your view is immediately dismissed as patronizing, I feel sorry for your captains/FOs. How you’re reacting is suggests you believe you know all there is to know. Did you never learn the part where airmanship requires making judgment calls in the grey area?
It absolutely was. Just because the left wing was lifted doesn’t mean the main wasn’t in the ground….strut extension. You can’t even see the left main most of the time.
every aircraft has a crosswind never to exceed rule in mph. it also appears to me that his yaw damper wasn't activated or the wind just cancelled the input due to its capabilities. lastly, i cannot see any pre-set trim in the rudder due to these winds. i don't know what weather brief he received or what the tower told him the winds were also. The last factor i question is. why is the tower departing a runway with such a severe crosswind component. Unless that's the only runway. i still would not have taken that runway for departure.
the pilot did a great job flying it off the runway, i'm sure he stained his pants.
This is stolen from YouTube, it's also been posted to r/nextfuckinglevel. This small segment is horribly cropped it looks awful and should not be posted the original is far superior.
The METAR doesn‘t matter. During windy days the METAR wind often exceeds crosswind or possibly even tailwind limits. What matters is the tower wind given together with the landing or takeoff clearance.
Neither of the matter to the FAA, although I assume most airlines require pilots to obey the maximum demonstrated crosswind. But at least from a regulatory perspective, pilots can choose to operate beyond that limit.
It's just as true when talking about Civil Aviation Authority regulations as it is talking about the Federal Aviation Administration regulations. I suppose it may surprise you to learn that aviation regulations are often harmonized between countries. Actually, there's a dedicated agency of the United Nations that's involved in doing that.
You are already oversimplifying this. There is already a difference between a demonstrated crosswind and a limiting crosswind - depending on how the plane is certified, one of them is actually limiting…
Although I certainly can't speak for literally every aircraft, I have never seen an actual restriction from the manufacturer with respect to crosswind. Every POH I've ever seen says it's a maximum demonstrated crosswind. Which is not a regulatory restriction. I just double checked that, and it was true of the 737NG series in revision 29 of the AFM and the B744 in revision 42. Although to be fair the wording used is somewhat confusing because it says the maximum demonstrated crosswind is X but this is not "considered to be limiting" on a dry runway with all engines operating.
I know there are some aircraft equipped with some engines where there actually is a hard AFM limit on crosswind, which is usually related to engine performance (some engines can experience compressor stalls with a strong enough crosswind component), and of course operational manuals issued by airlines generally have limits to be obeyed by their pilots which are often but not always constrained by the maximum demonstrated crosswind. For example, in 2002 Continental was telling their 777 pilots that they could land with a 45 knot crosswind on a dry runway and a 40 knot crosswind on a wet runway even though the manufacturer's demonstrated crosswind was only 38 knots.
I‘m more familiar with the Airbus side and our manuals (both company and manufacturer) are limiting crosswind components. Your experience with the 737 is probably more relevant in relation to above video.
I guess, like many things in aviation, it is more nuanced than it appears on first sight.
Fun fact, the limit in the POH is maximum demonstrated crosswind, not a regulatory operational limit. Pilots don't have to stay below maximum demonstrated crosswind if they think they can safely operate the airplane.
Hahaha, fyi modern avionics can display or follow a specific track, you can have it in either heading or track mode. Airliner pilots generally follow the path determined by the avionics, unless doing a visual approach or under Visual Flight Rules (rare). So the tower only need give them a track or heading bearing, then that is input to the avionics and the pilots follow the "Flight Director" which indicates when to climb or turn. Or just use the autopilot which also follows the FD.
No worries! Glad it was helpful. I'm also an enthusiast, not a pilot, but I'm fairly sure all of this is correct.
I should have also mentioned the FD can also show the programmed route (programmed by the pilots into the Flight Management Computer), which is what I was getting at with the "when to climb or turn" part. 90% of a flight is usually in those "follow programmed route" modes, unless directed to deviate by ATC or for weather. At takeoff commonly heading mode is selected, but it varies between airlines' Standard Operating Procedures.
I've learnt most of what I know from simulation tutorials from real world pilots, there are some really good channels on YouTube, '320SimPilot' is a good one.
Adds mass to the exhast/bypass flow, a pressure differential due to the volume of steam produced and helps to cooldown the turbine part which boosts efficiency.
There is a limit to how much water they can take, but AFAIK in modern turbofans that limit is so high that realistically speaking no weather condition we can experience on Earth could reach those limits.
When QF32 A380 landed in Singapore back in 2010 after a uncontained engine failure, the pilots couldn't switch off the engine.
So the fire brigade tried to extinguish it with water, but even with multiple trucks full blast into the engine it did nothing. I think they then used retardant foam which eventually worked.
Welcome to the airlines. Back in The Day when I was growing up learning to fly I'd check the weather to see whether I was going or not. Now I just check the weather to see how bad it's going to suck, because I'm going either way.
That’s wild AF. Can’t imagine how the passengers are doing in their seats. (Praying. Gripping seats tightly. Wondering why they didn’t cancel the booking. Praying).
Exotic-Mission-980@reddit
That was a little risky…
GaiusFrakknBaltar@reddit
On the upwind, are they supposed to track runway heading, or the course? I imagine if they tracked the heading, they'd end up being blown well off the runway centerline, so I'm curious
ImInterestingAF@reddit
Technically he should be crabbing to stay on centerline once airborne, but once off the ground, they just switched to following a ground track heading after drifting off of centerline and they’ll probably continue that track until they get vectors outta there.
xxJohnxx@reddit
He will rather follow the SID. Depending on the plane anywhere between 200 and 400ft above the ground the lateral navigation will become active and you end up following that. Vectors directly after takeoff are very uncommon in Europe.
ImInterestingAF@reddit
Thanks for the info. Didn’t even know this is Europe. In GA in the US, it’s almost always “runway heading, expect vectors”. But yeah, and airliner is probably more likely to get a SID.
Sasquatch-d@reddit
Depends on their takeoff clearance, either can be appropriatr
a_person_h@reddit
Pressing rudder simulator 2024
Affectionate_Fee3292@reddit
I want to be a pilot but now I’m second guessing my life decisions
10tonheadofwetsand@reddit
A good pilot wouldn’t have tried to takeoff in that crosswind.
Airbus321neoDRVR@reddit
It’s either legal or it isn’t. For Airline Pilots if it’s legal, we are going. If it’s not, we aren’t.
The mains stayed between the Centerline the whole time…they had directional control.
sirpsychosexy8@reddit
Not quite. In the 737 there is a maximum demonstrated x wind not a legal maximum. The question is safe/prudent when it comes to crosswinds. Tailwinds are a different story. And wind shear/microburst alerts and severe turb
Airbus321neoDRVR@reddit
Whether or not to make it a limitation is up to the company…which 95% do. I am an Airbus Pilot though and have not flown the 737.
sirpsychosexy8@reddit
Looked awfully like a 737 in that video. And you said it so matter of factly. In the US most carriers don’t impose it the limitation, instead they pose the question “but is it a good idea?” (Probably not). Seems like that CRM discussion would get shut down pretty quick in your flight deck
Airbus321neoDRVR@reddit
Wow. Just wow. Talk to me like I don’t know what a 737 is. We are done.
sirpsychosexy8@reddit
If Any discourse on a topic that challenges your view is immediately dismissed as patronizing, I feel sorry for your captains/FOs. How you’re reacting is suggests you believe you know all there is to know. Did you never learn the part where airmanship requires making judgment calls in the grey area?
Airbus321neoDRVR@reddit
What I have a problem with is being talked by a racist, sexist Dick who struggles with small penis syndrome while struggling with ED
10tonheadofwetsand@reddit
There is really no need to get this defensive.
10tonheadofwetsand@reddit
That left main was very much not on the ground before rotation.
Airbus321neoDRVR@reddit
It absolutely was. Just because the left wing was lifted doesn’t mean the main wasn’t in the ground….strut extension. You can’t even see the left main most of the time.
ssouthurst@reddit
Depends on if it was in range for the type...
Ok_Needleworker2438@reddit
You’re right.
Because that wasn’t a takeoff.
HokieAero@reddit
My brain is going "Left rudder ... left rudder ... LEFT RUDDER!" while watching this. Maybe he can't reach the pedals?
nigel12341@reddit
The Dutch will downplay any weather event xD
BallisticButch@reddit
“Nope.” - pilots
Derp800@reddit
"We'll give it a shot!" - Southwest pilots
catsdrooltoo@reddit
"Hold my breakfast beer" - Ryanair pilots
Jetmanman@reddit
😆
Airbus321neoDRVR@reddit
Legal = Yep
Not Legal = Nope
Sasquatch-d@reddit
What do you mean nope? They performed the entirety of their takeoff. How is “nope” classified as them completing the entirety of their goal?
Nope would’ve been them cancelling at the gate.
ssouthurst@reddit
Maybe they weren't referring to the pilots in the video?
DasbootTX@reddit
Navy Pilots "wtf is he doing. not on a dare..."
g1ngerkid@reddit
“Why don’t they simply turn their runway?”
Same-Ride-9197@reddit
every aircraft has a crosswind never to exceed rule in mph. it also appears to me that his yaw damper wasn't activated or the wind just cancelled the input due to its capabilities. lastly, i cannot see any pre-set trim in the rudder due to these winds. i don't know what weather brief he received or what the tower told him the winds were also. The last factor i question is. why is the tower departing a runway with such a severe crosswind component. Unless that's the only runway. i still would not have taken that runway for departure.
the pilot did a great job flying it off the runway, i'm sure he stained his pants.
nucleophilicattack@reddit
Tokyo Drift
MudaThumpa@reddit
In what world is the go-ahead given for that take off?
Only_Character_7298@reddit
That was an attempted landing
MudaThumpa@reddit
Oh snap, I didn't realize that!
Direct_Witness1248@reddit
It's not a go around, it's a takeoff, you were right.
MudaThumpa@reddit
Thanks. I tend to assume I'm wrong whenever I'm corrected.
Sasquatch-d@reddit
The person you’re replying to is completely wrong.
Why did you believe him in the first place?
Sasquatch-d@reddit
No… it wasn’t. What are you talking about?
jon_targareyan@reddit
I think there’s an extended version of this video where it basically starts from a full stop. Don’t think it was a landing attempt
Ecstatic_Feature_425@reddit
This is stolen from YouTube, it's also been posted to r/nextfuckinglevel. This small segment is horribly cropped it looks awful and should not be posted the original is far superior.
kschischang@reddit
Not with that flap configuration.
kj_gamer2614@reddit
Really? Flaps are only very slightly extended, looks like a takeoff roll tbh
Fantastic-Airline-92@reddit
Earth
Only_Character_7298@reddit
It wasn’t a take off. They were attempting to land.
Feelin_Dead@reddit
Max crosswind component exceeded.
Direct_Witness1248@reddit
Someone was saying that in the YouTube comments too, they even found the METAR. Not sure if it's actually legit though.
xxJohnxx@reddit
The METAR doesn‘t matter. During windy days the METAR wind often exceeds crosswind or possibly even tailwind limits. What matters is the tower wind given together with the landing or takeoff clearance.
Coomb@reddit
Neither of the matter to the FAA, although I assume most airlines require pilots to obey the maximum demonstrated crosswind. But at least from a regulatory perspective, pilots can choose to operate beyond that limit.
xxJohnxx@reddit
Not sure what the FAA has to do with anything, given that this is a european airline operating in the UK.
Coomb@reddit
It's just as true when talking about Civil Aviation Authority regulations as it is talking about the Federal Aviation Administration regulations. I suppose it may surprise you to learn that aviation regulations are often harmonized between countries. Actually, there's a dedicated agency of the United Nations that's involved in doing that.
xxJohnxx@reddit
You are already oversimplifying this. There is already a difference between a demonstrated crosswind and a limiting crosswind - depending on how the plane is certified, one of them is actually limiting…
Coomb@reddit
Although I certainly can't speak for literally every aircraft, I have never seen an actual restriction from the manufacturer with respect to crosswind. Every POH I've ever seen says it's a maximum demonstrated crosswind. Which is not a regulatory restriction. I just double checked that, and it was true of the 737NG series in revision 29 of the AFM and the B744 in revision 42. Although to be fair the wording used is somewhat confusing because it says the maximum demonstrated crosswind is X but this is not "considered to be limiting" on a dry runway with all engines operating.
I know there are some aircraft equipped with some engines where there actually is a hard AFM limit on crosswind, which is usually related to engine performance (some engines can experience compressor stalls with a strong enough crosswind component), and of course operational manuals issued by airlines generally have limits to be obeyed by their pilots which are often but not always constrained by the maximum demonstrated crosswind. For example, in 2002 Continental was telling their 777 pilots that they could land with a 45 knot crosswind on a dry runway and a 40 knot crosswind on a wet runway even though the manufacturer's demonstrated crosswind was only 38 knots.
xxJohnxx@reddit
Fair enough!
I‘m more familiar with the Airbus side and our manuals (both company and manufacturer) are limiting crosswind components. Your experience with the 737 is probably more relevant in relation to above video.
I guess, like many things in aviation, it is more nuanced than it appears on first sight.
pilot_96@reddit
As a matter of fact, the wind given was below the crosswind limit. Multiple aircraft have complained that day about inaccurate wind reports
Direct_Witness1248@reddit
Good info, thanks
Coomb@reddit
Fun fact, the limit in the POH is maximum demonstrated crosswind, not a regulatory operational limit. Pilots don't have to stay below maximum demonstrated crosswind if they think they can safely operate the airplane.
Green_Efficiency2314@reddit
That pilot is a boss! I respect it. But also terrifying AF
kosmonavt-alyosha@reddit
Passenger in 32F looking straight down the runway during takeoff.
Pilot: Heading 270, tower. Tracking 360.
*Not a pilot, I have no idea actual terminology and callouts!
Direct_Witness1248@reddit
Hahaha, fyi modern avionics can display or follow a specific track, you can have it in either heading or track mode. Airliner pilots generally follow the path determined by the avionics, unless doing a visual approach or under Visual Flight Rules (rare). So the tower only need give them a track or heading bearing, then that is input to the avionics and the pilots follow the "Flight Director" which indicates when to climb or turn. Or just use the autopilot which also follows the FD.
kosmonavt-alyosha@reddit
Thank you for this. I am an enthusiast and always love learning things like this!
Direct_Witness1248@reddit
No worries! Glad it was helpful. I'm also an enthusiast, not a pilot, but I'm fairly sure all of this is correct.
I should have also mentioned the FD can also show the programmed route (programmed by the pilots into the Flight Management Computer), which is what I was getting at with the "when to climb or turn" part. 90% of a flight is usually in those "follow programmed route" modes, unless directed to deviate by ATC or for weather. At takeoff commonly heading mode is selected, but it varies between airlines' Standard Operating Procedures.
I've learnt most of what I know from simulation tutorials from real world pilots, there are some really good channels on YouTube, '320SimPilot' is a good one.
Chicken_Water@reddit
"If he dies, he dies"
Joehansson@reddit
‘This is fine, we fly home’
kristijan12@reddit
How does the jet engine deal with so much water getting in?
xxJohnxx@reddit
They can handle a lot of water: https://youtu.be/faDWFwDy8-U?si=NX7d25IzRfBfRv2E
Huugboy@reddit
Water is no problem for turbofans. Hell, i've heard water in the intake makes it perform better.
AzraelIshi@reddit
Adds mass to the exhast/bypass flow, a pressure differential due to the volume of steam produced and helps to cooldown the turbine part which boosts efficiency.
There is a limit to how much water they can take, but AFAIK in modern turbofans that limit is so high that realistically speaking no weather condition we can experience on Earth could reach those limits.
Direct_Witness1248@reddit
When QF32 A380 landed in Singapore back in 2010 after a uncontained engine failure, the pilots couldn't switch off the engine.
So the fire brigade tried to extinguish it with water, but even with multiple trucks full blast into the engine it did nothing. I think they then used retardant foam which eventually worked.
superuser726@reddit
It doesn't; most of it is bypassed off from the centrifugal force right out into the bypass ducts
OptiGuy4u@reddit
Spirit airlines charges an extra fee for the thrill in this situation.
Mike__O@reddit
Welcome to the airlines. Back in The Day when I was growing up learning to fly I'd check the weather to see whether I was going or not. Now I just check the weather to see how bad it's going to suck, because I'm going either way.
julias-winston@reddit
Holy shit. It'd be a relief to be airborne, even though the wind is the same.
CarelessFig7606@reddit
me irl when i play geo fs and set the weather conditions to max
superuser726@reddit
Geo-FS is great but just very difficult to fly for some reason... it's worse than real life somehow
Jetjr81@reddit
Here hold my beer.
Yvorontsov@reddit
When you really need to be at home for dinner... Wild!
horse-boy1@reddit
Can't keep it on center line. 😆
BusinessSeesaw7383@reddit
Scottland?
GoddamitBoyd@reddit
Newcastle last week.
LounBiker@reddit
This was in Newcastle, UK, during the recent storm
FuckTheLonghorns@reddit
The one like Friday-Saturday?
whooo_me@reddit
Longer version here
Ologunde@reddit
That’s wild AF. Can’t imagine how the passengers are doing in their seats. (Praying. Gripping seats tightly. Wondering why they didn’t cancel the booking. Praying).
sayen_boy@reddit
Average KLM pilot 🤷♂️
chuckop@reddit
Needs more cropping
Quiet-Tackle-5993@reddit
At what point is there so much headwind that you risk stalling out immediately? Looks dicey
whsftbldad@reddit
If there's that much of a xwind, how is the person recording not rolling down the hill like a tumbleweed?
Ok_Needleworker2438@reddit
Stick shaker shake!
whsftbldad@reddit
Sounds like a 1960's pop song
game_enjoyer246@reddit
Yes a very "slight" Xwind
TommyROAR@reddit
Clearly a drone
HookFE03@reddit
What does one sacrifice to the vertical stabilizer gods?
Bounceupandown@reddit
I think if the pilot would have angled his takeoff from right to left it would have at least looked better from the camera perspective
-burnr-@reddit
“Aileron into wind!? Whatever Captain Boomer” - that millennial F/O probably
ptn_huil0@reddit
Imagine the stink in the cabin! 😆
odin_the_wiggler@reddit
Them drawers are fully loaded.
Tweecers@reddit
Jfc
Top_Spray5105@reddit
Holly shit 😲