Where are all the pilots speaking out about the drones? They are clearly airplanes.

MicahBurke@reddit

From personal experience, I think some of the black triangle ufo claims were just planes flying in a triangle formation. I saw one in my college days, it freaked the heck out of me, this massive vast triangle shaped object in the sky with lights along the edges. It wasn't until I noticed I could see the stars "inside" the triangle that I realized I was looking at several planes in a triangle formation.

That doesn't account for the daylight sightings etc of course.

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CoyoteDrunk28@reddit

I saw one in Phoenix in the 90s that was absolutely a triangle, and the inside was watery and gaseous like they were attempting to project an image of the sky above onto the bottom but it was really crappy. It was about a few hundred meters over my head so it wasn't far at all, the entire thing would of been similar to the size of a B2 but it was certainly a 🔺. I really don't expect people to believe me but I know what I saw. It was flying directly west in west Phoenix just north of the Estrella Mountains where the Phoenix Lights stopped on their 2nd appearance a few years later. People who witnessed the PL said they also were gaseous and watery. I've since seen some Ufologist with alleged government connections say that they do have a projection on the bottom, and that's exactly what the one I saw looked like

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nanapancakethusiast@reddit

These people are literally filming departure traffic from Teterboro and cannot put 2 and 2 together. It’d be funny if it wasn’t a tragic reminder of how dumb the average person is.

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gavroche1972@reddit

Why are you ridiculing people for thinking they are drones, when the pentagon keeps referring to them as drones. They even held a briefing today discussing these drones.

Pentagon only said they are aware of reports of drones. They did not confirm those reports to therefore be accurate.

They did however say whatever it was was not the US military and they do not believe it to be foreign either.

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America’s election results speak for themselves on this matter

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MiniTab@reddit

Yep. Pretty much everywhere in the country shifted right. We are absolutely becoming dumber.

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pogo6023@reddit

A other message from inside the bubble...

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MiniTab@reddit

Hey, the correct way to write that is:

“Another message from inside the bubble…”

The condescension isn't necessary, there are a lot of people who are smarter and more qualified than you who are taking the topic of UAP seriously. This specific drone flap is getting tied into the topic and speculated about because of the continuing unexplained origin and the bizarre nature of what's happening.

If you were more informed about the UAP topic in general you'd have an understanding of why the possibility of this drone flap being tied in is considered plausible to some degree or another.

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FoxFyer@reddit

This specific drone flap is getting tied into the topic because the YouTube channels that these folks get their thinking-instructions from have been telling them these things that look like, fly like, and are even conspicuously lit like small aircraft or large quadcopters, are actually alien spaceships merely pretending to be normal airplanes, and these folks are sadly so emotionally invested in the story of the US getting invaded by alien spaceships being true that they have come to uncritically accept any suggestion that is compatible with it, no matter how farcical.

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8_guy@reddit

You're talking about emotionally invested but read your comment and it doesn't exactly come across as detached. Again, the reason speculation is happening is because this has gone on at scale, with no really plausible scenarios for this happening in the way it has, over a period of weeks.

Given the size and loiter time of the drones it essentially has to be military or military-adjacent (IE major defense contractor) for it to be a prosaic event, but we get denials from the military that they know what it is (or that it's adversary technology), the FBI and local law enforcement are telling people they're concerned/clueless and to send in tips, and no one has really made any independent progress into figuring out what's going on.

Some small portion of military and intelligence knows what's happening and they really don't want to tell to the point that they're willing to make themselves and the rest of the government look incompetent. If you have some good theories of your own on what this could be I'm all ears, but try to really think it through.

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revcor@reddit

a prosaic event

Is this some drone-specific term or just a peculiar word choice?

Also you keep saying "drone flap" as if it were a normal phrase that you can just use without needing to explain it first... wtf is a drone flap

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8_guy@reddit

most of the information that the military and intelligence communities deal with is of a sensitive nature... of course they don't share it with the public wtf lol. It's ridiculous to expect them to share what they know about anything until that knowledge is no longer relevant, they'd be useless if they just shared everything publicly.

Okay I'm not sure what point you think you're making here, that's obvious and everyone knows. This event is extremely atypical for reasons you might not understand.

If there were plausible explanations where those types of concerns could be the reason for things playing out like this, it wouldn't be such a topic of interest.

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8_guy@reddit

Prosaic in its definition as "commonplace" is used when discussing the UAP topic to mean something with a "conventional" explanation for lack of a better word. Basically something that's understood within our current consensus on reality.

Flap meaning essentially a state of agitation or panic caused in the general public. No-one's really panicking over this just being thorough with definition. Flap in this sense isn't a word specific to this topic, there have been plenty of other things referred to as "X flaps" in the past. That being said there have been [previous occasions of similar things happening](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Colorado_drone_sightings#:~:text=Observations%20of%20mysterious%20drones%20spotted,six%20feet%20(1.8%20m) happening with unidentified drones and the same drone flap terminology was used to describe it.

haha 😂 we gonna have people saying but look this flight was never on flight radar 24/7 claiming it was an alien gosh i love it (to be fair though i’d totally disguise my reconnaissance vehicle to look like the natives tech too if i was an alien)

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thatstupidthing@reddit

why does it have to be aliens mimicking human aircraft with drones...

why can it be, i dunno, other humans mimicking human aircraft with drones?

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slyskyflyby@reddit

There's a small faction of people on these pages that believe they are Chinese or Iranian military drones coming from some mothership drone off our east coast.

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coue67070201@reddit

Wow, you just made me go down a rabbit hole in that subreddit, and people are just straight up stupid. Talking about the biblical end-times happening because the pope opened a few doors, saying a drone vaporized anti-aircraft rounds… because the tracer was spent…. That everyone needs to write a super long 8 paragraph message to their local congressman asking to “sHOw uS tHe alIEnS” because they KNOW they’re smarter than us sheeple…

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Bergasms@reddit

Lol that movie, so terribly bad its good

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8_guy@reddit

I can answer that, the speculation is that there's a specific reason for imitating drones tied to the current time.

One example of something like that would be, they're attracting attention to the general topic of "odd things happening in the sky" slowly, in a way that doesn't instantly confirm to the general public that something important is going on. In a case where our government has been involved in a suppression of the topic, it would be a signal to them that eventually disclosure would happen voluntarily or not.

The general public is already accustomed to drones so a story like this will end up basically being a curiosity, as it has.

Also, there are cases throughout the history of UFO/UAP being a phenomena where craft seem to be imitating something normal before displaying anomalous characteristics. In the majority of cases though, they actually seem to be purposefully showing themselves to individuals or small groups.

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monsantobreath@reddit

Wow.

I'm persuaded you have no idea what you're talking about.

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Because, to any species that advanced, it's like us literally going back to the stone age or medieval periods. Some ancient structures can't even be explained in how they were made given the size of the stones, and the arrangement, including the pyramids of Giza.

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monsantobreath@reddit

That's ridiculous. You know damn well if we wanted to we could make an outward mimic of a pyramid or some ancient vessel.

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MicahBurke@reddit

Plus why be seen at all? Why use FAA regulation nav lights. Do UFOs really need to tell others of their presence?

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coldnebo@reddit

because Bob had ONE JOB to do!!

“Bob, we’re going to Earth next week. it’s going to be a long trip. DO NOT FORGET to pack the cloaking devices!”

“ok”

(later in NJ)

“Ok Bob, let’s put the cloaking devices on these crude HUman shaped balsa wood drones!”

“uh”

“you forgot didn’t you? after I told you a hundred times!! — you know what? forget it. launch the drones, WE’LL DO IT LIVE!!”

…

“uh, if the drones were supposed to be cloaked, why do they have navigation lights?”

😂😂😂

maybe Bob has a point? 🤔

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8_guy@reddit

One hypothesis would be they want to get attention, but keep the amount of attention moderate by cutting down on the stranger aspects of what's happening. Hence imitating drones, lights, etc.

woah… how big is this conspiracy?! no wonder people are trying to shut down airports by filing noise complaints!

at the airports, are they lizard people or greys?

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BAN_MOTORCYCLES@reddit

the aviation industry is just a cover for the drones

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JedPB67@reddit

To be fair, it’s not the entire community believing this, if you go to r/UFOs you’ll find plenty of people interested in the subject that aren’t unwaveringly convinced by an out of focus pixel or a modified image of a business jet - we’re just all at bottom of the comments with our downvoted voices of reason lol

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tetrahydrocannabiol@reddit

So an alien race capable of travelling all the way to earth and mimicing a flying object in an other planets gravity, atmosphere etc, BUT they could not get the shape of an aircraft right? Lmao

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QAInspector7586@reddit

The way these groups will leap to aliens and be ignore basic common sense is just wild. The whole “non human biologics” thing is a great example. You know what is non-human biologics? Literally every other living thing in the planet. That’s millions of species, but nope. Gotta be aliens. Definitely not animal testing. Aliens.

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Without_Portfolio@reddit

getting it just a little bit wrong like AI often does

human_totem_pole@reddit

Greetings humans. As you can see by our markings we are from the galaxy Delta and the planet Alpha320.

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coldnebo@reddit

when in Rome.

besides, have you seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind? their whole craft is a light and sound kit. probably programmable so they can flip their lights if they are flying inverted.

ravers. 🙄😂

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thedakotahurley@reddit

Traffic… beacon… ? 😅

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felistrophic@reddit

But the lights aren't in the right places?

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VibrantForms@reddit

This is what we're dealing with https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOB/s/oWAlIQuQdQ

Check the replies where I clearly explain and provide a nice explanation someone posted in a other thread. That guy has since replied with offensive language but when I access the notification it looks like it's been auto moderated 🤣

This footage is well covered in metabunk but the general feeling from their contributors is why invest time debunking it when it's so blatantly obvious it's planes.

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nanapancakethusiast@reddit

I’ve been reading r/UFOs and r/aliens in complete awe of how completely f’ing stupid the average American is. Have they reintroduced lead into gasoline recently??

I even correctly identified a plane from a silhouette + public flight plan and was downvoted.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Yea, i see it all the time. Its absolutely crazy that people are so absence of critical thinking and objectivity.

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Boyilltelluwut@reddit

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf

This was passed by the senate and then gutted by house republicans with ties to defense contractors. The entire r/ufos community isn’t nuts. This is a real issue. It’s bipartisan. Yes there are lots of bad videos out there. But uap are real.

Does this sub not respect commander fravor and the tic tac incident as reported by 60 minutes? He’s a navy top gun guy.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

This isnt about credible UAP reports from military personnel. The footage in question here isnt coming from FLIR cameras. These are average people in New Jersey and other parts of USA and even Canada that are filming commercial airliner jets and helicopters and claiming they are drones. Its not even in the same ballpark.

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This is going to be really fun to see how this plays out. There are drones everywhere yet no one can find them. There are drones flying in neighborhoods and off the ocean and near airports. When the report comes back, we'll come back and revisit this.

I will tell you this. If I were going to send a drone out on a mission to get some secret information on a military site or tracking military vessels, the first thing I'm going to do is to turn off the lights.

I was in the US Army and I've served in combat and I understand the use of light discipline in tactical situations. I sure had less lights on my Humvee during the main offensive in Desert Storm than these drones do. I was in blackout drive driving with night vision. Too bad these drones aren't that smart.

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SuperDuperPositive@reddit

The Pentagon and the White House disagree with you. They've said these aren't airplanes, and they don't know what they are or who they belong to.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

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retard-is-not-a-slur@reddit

Its absolutely crazy that people are so absent of critical thinking and objectivity.

You must be new here.

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New_Excitement_4248@reddit

It's a sub full of people deeply lacking in critical thinking skills, or otherwise people who are deeply mentally unwell like /r/gangstalking.

pupeno@reddit

AFAIK, red has no special effect to bulls, just movement. So not even a bull.

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Kafshak@reddit

Fair enough.

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sandhillfarmer@reddit

I lived through the great northeastern Colorado drone scare of Christmas 2019. It's a rural area, so the national attention wasn't intense, but boy was it wild on the ground.

The way people are acting now is exactly the way they acted then. Planes flying into Denver fly over regularly, and I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Planes don't have green and red lights!"

A lot of it came down to people having never looked up in the night sky before. For instance, people noticed that stars shimmer for the first time. They'd say, "Look! There's a drone hovering over that house!" I would point out that it was a star and try to explain how light travels through the atmosphere, and I shit you not, someone once said to me, "Stars don't twinkle like that." It's in the goddamned song!

People that I've known for years would chase down a stationary red-blinking drone only to lose it right when they got to the big radio antenna tower and wonder where in the hell the drone went.

Unfortunately I became kind of a pariah as "the local skeptic," which is a lame place to be in because everybody who wants to believe decides you're simply dismissing it out of hand, and they don't listen at all to the rationality. Let alone questioning why this influx of drones sometimes hovered stationary over houses and sometimes flew in fast grid patterns and sometimes flew slowly overhead flashing green and red lights. They wouldn't even look at pictures of planes on the internet. It was maddening. People just wanted the intrigue.

Timely_Entrance_7931@reddit

The people who believe they are drones are way too stupid to ever believe experts who can identify each and every one as an airplane. I have not seen a single video that I could not instantly identify as an airplane. Most of them I can name the make and model. Hell one was a Southwest jet clearly in their livery!! You can’t fix stupid. They just call you the crazy one.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

I found one that i cant explain, its not from this recent frenzy, it was back in september. But I cant figure it out. I was thinking it was a pivotal helix but the profile doesnt match. Let me know what you think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1fp9sx2/anyone_know_what_this_could_be/

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Timely_Entrance_7931@reddit

Ok I think I have found out what it is. Now there are a lot of questions that I have that you probably don’t have answers to since I don’t think you were the OP of that video. Look up a tethered aerostat. It’s a type of blimp that is tethered to a ground station and used for various applications. Verizon and AT&T actually use them to elevate cellular antennae when there is a large scale outage in an area to help get cell coverage back to an area after a natural disaster. The military also has them stationed in strategic areas especially near coasts (which Epping NH is near) to detect threats coming in from the ocean. There are two located on Cudjoe Key in the Florida Keys. You can research that place as well. In this video, it appears it is facing away from the person taking the video. The little thing sticking out of the bottom left side is a stabilization fin. You can’t see the other two because they blend in to the main body of the aerostat but theres another one at a 45 degree angle out the right side and one going directly up. The lighting matches that of other aerostats that have been filmed. Depending on the height of the aerostat and how much cable is out, the cable itself will sometimes be lit up with flashing lights so airplanes don’t fly under the blimp and hit the cable. This happened to the very aerostats in the Florida Keys a long time ago. Hope this helps!!

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

The lights are bothering me tho. When I look up pics of the aerostat blimp, i dont see any obvious strobe lights on it.

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Timely_Entrance_7931@reddit

They have to have beacons on them above 180 feet above ground. Check out this link. It’s an aviation sectional chart for Epping NH. If you look just south of Epping, you will see blue text that has numbers and says Balloon. That shows that this aerostat is a permanent fixture and is even marked on charts that it is 1000 feet above the ground. https://skyvector.com/?ll=42.983679084814675,-71.11000441827368&chart=301&zoom=1

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Thats fine, I understand there is a requirement. Im not concerned that it has lights. Im just looking at Aerostat balloons and I cant see them on the structure. In the video, the driver is below the balloon. I dont know what the angle of elevation would be, but Im going to guess 45 degrees since he saw it out of his sunroof for a moment. So, if there were lights on the top of the balloon (seems like a good place) then at his vantage point he wouldn't be able to see the top of the balloon. So that would leave me to believe its on the side.
https://live.staticflickr.com/5582/15175839851_ef940736f4_b.jpg

https://youtu.be/V50RCQo_rfs?feature=shared

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churningaccount@reddit

They're already aiming high-powered laser pointers at them.

I made a few comments in that sub on a popular post where that was happening telling people never to point a laser at an object in the sky, even if they didn't think there was a human in it.

Got downvoted to hell and my comments removed...

But the replies before that indicated a general mistrust of experts. A lot of "how could a laser pointer possibly cause blindness from so far away? The beam must be so wide by then." and "I looked into a laster pointer as a kid and am just fine."

So I doubt any pilots being interviewed on the media will be taken seriously. We are in an era of people believing and prioritizing their own "lived experience" over what anyone else with credentials says.

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AngryTurtleJewelry@reddit

If it's a human you pissed off the FAA

If it's an alien your energy weapon might start an interstellar war.

Doesn't seem like there's much upside!

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Kayback2@reddit

I have laser pointers and I have lasers. My most powerful can do stuff like burst balloons and ignite matches.

Obviously that's at close range and with attenuation it won't burn eyeballs at 4000 feet but I can imagine it not being fun being being lazed

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DC38x@reddit

There's always been a lot of dumb fucks around. Now they have echo chambers to reinforce their dumb fuck ideas and wank each other off

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

That's disheartening

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MicahBurke@reddit

Reasonable folks are getting drowned out by the conspiracy crowd. It's my view that folks simply aren't used to noticing or watching things in the sky, especially at night. So anything in the sky is a drone/ufo/uap. I recently saw someone post a lengthy video of a "hovering drone" - it was Venus, they even zoomed in and claimed the out of focus dot was shimmering, etc.

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MyDogOper8sBetrThanU@reddit

Those subs are ridiculous, but people are seeing something beyond “it’s an airplane” if the pentagon and homeland security are giving pressers on the situation. Hell they even stated the drones are about the size of an SUV and not hobbiest.

but there is footage of UFO's that are definitely not commercial airliners

My guess is that they've been hearing crazy people talk for so long that they cant be bothered. Flat earth, chemtrails come to mind.

Also, flying saucers is a touchy subject in this field. You might lose your job if you say you seen one, so a lot less problems not even going there.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Yea, but in this situation what we need is pilots saying its not UFOs. Surely you aren't going to get a psych evaluation for calling a airplane an airplane.

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slyskyflyby@reddit

I've been pretty active in r/UFOs and r/interdimensionalNHI trying to explain aircraft lighting and interpreting distance and altitude common errors but it's all falling on deaf ears. They don't want to hear it, they won't be convinced otherwise. If you explain anything to them about how aircraft work they will just say one of two things: 1: you're a government shill spreading misinformation. 2: it's drones trying to mimic aircraft and aircraft lights to try to blend in with human made aircraft.

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FOOLS_GOLD@reddit

People in those subs believe a drone mothership is underneath the Atlantic ocean and is creating custom specialized drones each time and it’s also apparently shooting down (literally annihilating) entire military aircraft that approach “dangerously.”

DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Because UFOs have been largely seen as fictional for most of the last 100 years. Its only recently that the pentagon has confirmed that UFOs (UAP) are real and the government is giving it serious attention. So when I say "I believe in UFOs" its comes from the vernacular of the past 4 decades of my life. There's still a large part of the population that sees UFOs as still being fictional. For me its not a question. They exist.

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TaloKrafar@reddit

Things in the sky that people can't identify exists.

Wild, shocking news.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Im not here to have a discussion about UAP per se. I'm here to discuss the delusions of people having a clear observation of commercial airliners and claiming its something entirely different. I'll leave the burden of evidence of UAP to government whistle-blowers.

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boywithleica@reddit

Isn't it interesting that none of the so-called whistleblowers came forward with any shred of evidence? It's all 'cool story bro'-tier stuff that get regurgitated in videos, podcasts, books (basically anything that can be sold to the UFO crowd).

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Commander Fravor testified in front of congress regarding his video. You have that. You also have David Grusch who gave his testimony and he couldn't even get a scif cleared by DoD... why not? The intelligence comittee and the DoD, Pentagon, are constantly putting up road blocks preventing people from testifying, even going as far as threatening people with prison.

Lets get real here. The ONLY people that would ever have a shot at being credible in the eyes of the public are the men and women of the armed forces and government agencies. What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that even when talking about the UAP/UFO subject, they have to discuss sensitive information and projects that they're not allowed to disclose to people without a security clearance, such as the people in congress and the senate. The pentagon has to clear a lot of things they want to talk about in public settings. The pentagon isnt going to tell Grusch not to talk about aliens, because that would be confirmation in the negative. So they let him talk about stuff that cant be confirmed. They will however tell him not to disclose names, projects, methods, departments, etc. If he talks about it anyways, hes at risk of being prosecuted under the espionage act like Edward Snowdon.

The things that are kept secret regarding UAP are things congress should already know about, but the higher powers in the government are preventing them from knowing about it. The point of having the congressional hearings is to give congress the information they need to start chipping away at the wall of secrecy while at the same time abiding by the laws that restrict them.

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boywithleica@reddit

I'm always happy to discuss these things with level-headed people and you seem to be one of those, so I'll gladly take the time. About Fravor - I believe that he is earnest in what he is saying. I do think that he is genuinely convinced he saw something unexplainable, so I hold him in higher regards than the rest of the UFO influencer crowd, who are very clearly in it to make some good cash.

However - pilots are just as prone to being misled by (optical) illusions as the rest of us. They are not an infallible source of information. In fact, in aviation history many lives were lost because pilots flew their planes into terrain because they trusted their senses more than their instruments/the data. And the fact of the matter is that we do not have data/footage from Fravor's plane. We do have video from a third-party - another jet that was flying nearby. This footage has been thoroughly analyzed (e.g. here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1di0XIa9RQ) and can be explained as mundane, so it is not direct corroboration of Fravor's claims.

Also please consider that David Fravor has been interested in UFOs since before the Nimitz incident in 2004 - in fact he recalled an instance during his JRE interview, in which he faked a UFO sighting, describing a prank he played by flying over a group of campers and engaging his afterburner to create dramatic effects, making it appear as though they were witnessing a UFO. Interesting context imo.

Grusch is a whole different can of worms. He is completely dubious in my book, having walked in woo-woo UFO circles for a long time now (Puthoff, Elizondo, and the like). He has largely been fed lies and bogus documents behind the scenes to facilitate this whole whistleblower-hearing story. Honestly, I feel for the guy as I think he is being used by charlatans to further their course.

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PacketRacket@reddit

It sounds like you’re running into a mix of the Dunning-Kruger effect (people with limited knowledge overestimating their understanding) and belief perseverance (sticking to their beliefs no matter the evidence). Add in some confirmation bias (only seeing what supports their ideas) and conspiracy thinking (“government shill”), and it makes productive conversation almost impossible. Unfortunately, once people are emotionally invested in their beliefs, they usually aren’t open to logical explanations.

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N2DPSKY@reddit

As an amateur astronomer, I've spent a fair amount of time trying to convince people that what they're seeing are scintillating stars that are out of focus, not orbs. They can't believe Sirius changes colors and they'll tell you Mars spins so it's not a planet.

But how do you investigate when there’s nothing to see. When the FBI or whomever it goes out there to look they’re gonna see normal air traffic they’re not gonna see any drones. Because there aren’t any. So all they have are the same stupid videos we do

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monroeshton@reddit

Right - but the Pentagon has acknowledged that the “drones” exist, and that they don’t know what they are. Also there’s a very long hearing that I watched where other agencies also acknowledge they exist and that they don’t know what they are. They could have said “they’re planes” and it would be the end of it. But they didn’t.

I’m all for an invasion, beam me up.

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MicahBurke@reddit

No they didn't. They said that whatever the lights are, they're not our drones. We all agree the objects exist, but every video I've (arguably WE'VE) seen has been either a commercial plane, private plane, helicopter or planet.

The Pentagon/FBI etc AREN'T going to say "they're planes", because they haven't finished investigating the claims.

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monroeshton@reddit

¯_(ツ)_/¯

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I have however personally seen them flying over head. This is not entirely made up..

Do you have any evidence we can look at or do we just have to take your word for it.

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Worried-Necessary501@reddit

That is your decision. I did not try to take photos, but did provide context for my statement. And I was merely asking this sub to consider that there could be some actual drones out there mixed with the planes being reported as drones.

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notaredditer13@reddit

You didn't even try to describe them so given that almost all of what I've seen in the news and online is obviously normal aircraft I have no choice as a rational human but to decline.

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egohavoc@reddit

I believe you and after reading through the comments here this community is just as short-sighted as the hardcore believers honestly. The coast guard said they encountered these drones, one of the agencies pursued a drone, but stopped because they felt “unsafe”. But that’s apparently not enough evidence because “there are no drones”.

As a fellow aviation nerd and fan of logic and reason, it’s disappointing to see the discourse here get completely shutdown at even the idea of there being something we don’t understand yet. I guess it’s natural to have hardline non-believers if you’re going to have the true believers crowd.

I was in school when 9/11 happened and I distinctly remember trying to tell my tech teacher that the WTC and the Pentagon were attacked, he completely dismissed me and wouldn’t turn on the news in the classroom, said that was impossible and that would never happen. This is what the majority of the people here remind me of.

I’ll get downvoted but I don’t give a fuck. Anyways, take care and have a nice day

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notaredditer13@reddit

The coast guard said they encountered these drones, one of the agencies pursued a drone, but stopped because they felt “unsafe”.

Have a link for that?

Note: non-relevant military personnel aren't necessarily any more reliable than other laypeople.

this community is just as short-sighted as the hardcore believers honestly.

No, skepticism is the default/scientific/correct positions. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. No quality evidence rightly causes scientifically minded people to not move off the default conclusion that nothing is happening.

Heck, even if there are 10 "real" incidents mixed in, it still doesn't change the fact that there's a mass-hysteria event happening. That's what the evidence we have clearly tells us.

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N2DPSKY@reddit

So let me ask this since the reporting has been so wildly off and provides little detail.

Can you describe what you've seen? Distance to them, lighting, altitude, sound, flight path?

I hate this word, but here it's warranted... are these people fucking retarded? The guys says it's a Cessna citation and then another dude goes, "so is this a Cessna type plane?" And shares a 737 on the same flight path... like he caught him red handed or some shit

I hate this world lmao

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FartInsideMe@reddit

Isnt that the point of the sub tho? 😂 none of them are able to identify it

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smakinelmo@reddit

While true, you are talking about people who very obviously live under a heavily used flight path. The fact they can't discern that is concerning.

I live on a lake, I own a boat, I know nothing about them. But with the sound and distant visual que, I can tell you I'm looking at a jet ski!

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New_Excitement_4248@reddit

Miserable_Meeting_26@reddit

Are what people are seeing and what the pentagon is talking about, the same thing?

Yes. The Pentagon has officially stated these drones are flying above residential areas clearly seen from below.

The governor of NJ said “as soon as we get eyes on them they go dark”.

https://youtu.be/i9cdhyFmc_A

We can debate all day about what they are, but there is no debating their existence. Not sure what point you’re trying to prove when every official message is contradicting you.

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Because they “go dark” when we try to view them. The answers to all of your questions have literally been answered by government officials.

Both things can be true, that people are filming planes, not drones, and also that there are drones in the skies we are being lied to about.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Yea, ive seen videos of people who film planes and because the plane is turning the landing lights are no longer visible and it appears to "go dark". I've also seen videos of people claiming to see a drone being chased and the drone "goes dark" but in reality it was just an internal reflection in the window and when they panned over to look through a different pane of glass it disappeared because the geometry of the glass was different.

Theres always a logical explanation. The government isn't always lying to you. Not everything is a conspiracy.

The government doesn't have any evidence of drones and they're not going discount the public when they haven't seen all the data. So when they say there are drones, theyre really going off of public reports rather than any evidence they have themselves. Kirby said it himself that they don't have any government produced evidence of the drones.

Thats not to say there wasn't an initial report of drones over military bases some time a few weeks ago.. That's what started this whole thing to begin with and since then its been nothing but commerical aircraft.

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Miserable_Meeting_26@reddit

So when they say there are drones, theyre really going off of public reports rather than any evidence they have themselves.

Why wouldn’t they just say those are planes and there’s nothing to worry about?

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

They haven't seen all the data. Unless you want them to go case by case and say "this a plane, this a plane, this is a helicopter". He would be up there for weeks.

He did say that many of the reports are manned aircraft. He didnt say all of them are because they haven't seen all the data yet. The investigation is still ongoing. Just because there is an investigation doesn't mean there are actually drones.

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Miserable_Meeting_26@reddit

Come one dude you heard the mayor of NJ. They have some of the best sensor tech and can’t get eyes on them.

Also check this one out. These are not standard aviation lights.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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Miserable_Meeting_26@reddit

The wing tips in that video are white. Only one red light in the middle and no green.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Its a little washed out because the red and green position lights are only supposed to be visible from the front and side. But because the wing tip navigation lights are on you cant see them until the plane flies over head. The rear white portion is shining as well so it washes it out. I can put the image in photo editing software and sample the light. One def has red, while the other is more in the yellow hue, but still towards the green. Its a plane.

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AutoModerator@reddit

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Continued political comments will create a permanent ban.

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Miserable_Meeting_26@reddit

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Entertaining ideas like that is dangerous. For instance, people have already put out that idea, obviously without backing it up, and people run with it as being true. People are recording planes off in the distance and when their phone goes out of focus the pinpoint of light gets big and blurry and they think it transformed into a plasma ball. Theres no telling these people what actually happened regarding the focus. They have already decided that it turned into a plasma ball.

You have to stick with the facts and stay grounded with reality or else you get caught up in delusions and start thinking commercial aircraft are spaceships just like seeing squirrels as 6ft hairy monsters.

most of all of the sightings are traceable on flightradar24, given its not a law enforcement or military vehicles. But you also have to know how to use those tools and factor in margins of error. A lot can happen on a radar in 3 minutes. Flightradar can be off by that much. So no, I don't think any of the planes are actually UFOs. There is no sense in that. If aliens wanted to make themselves known, they would just do it.

This isn't what disclosure looks like. True disclosure is transparent and forthcoming. Whats happening with the congressional hearings is the only way to do it aside from massive internal leaks.

Whats happened over the past few weeks is actually bad for disclosure because it just gives the national security committee proof that the public cant handle it.

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And what about the one’s that aren’t?

Those aren’t the ones state officials, FBI, and DoD are talking about.

Not sure why you ignoring the very clear message from the Pentagon: “Large drones are flying over NJ. We don’t know what or who they are, but they aren’t a threat.”

If that doesn’t seem odd to you then idk what to tell ya.

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Initial_Ambition_848@reddit

Fed comments

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PlatinumAero@reddit

> You live in a strongest country in the world and it took 3 weeks to give a vague explanation

I expected nothing less. What would you expect if there were no drones, but a massive lack of evidence? The only evidence there's any drone activity is the videos, all of which show normal plane and helicopter operations.

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Dajajde@reddit

[State police says that as well as other sources.](
I don't need to mention specific examples. They explicitly said "many of the reported sightings", not "all of them", which means there are others. They did not provide any proof for their statement too.
It's very easy to publish pictures/videos of these things and say "we're 100% sure it's this and not that". Instead, they say they don't know what many of these are.
Many of these sightings are very detailed with tons of data, more detailed then any explanation you linked.
God damn pentagon is saying they exist but that's not good enough for you and your only evidence is "blurry photos" lol.

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MicahBurke@reddit

> State police

They're just as useless as any other observer when it comes to objects in the night sky. Police often mistake Venus for drones or helicopters.
If you don't have specific examples, then we have nothing to discuss apart from "ooh, pretty lights in the sky".
It would be very easy for someone to post video, give location, time, date and direction facing... but so far only one or two has. Even when people claim to have looked at FlightRadar type software, they're only looking a few miles away, unaware that you can see very distant planes at night brightly.
If we're talking about the NJ sightings, no, there hasn't been. There's been tons of videos of random lights in the sky (almost all of them displaying legal FAA nav lighting), but I've seen only one that gave partial data about it's location and time, and it was published yesterday.
Baloney. The FBI and DHS stated yesterday: "upon review of the available imagery, it appears that many of the reported sightings are actually manned aircraft, operating lawfully. There are no reported or confirmed drone sightings in any restricted air space."

Provide verifiable, investigable evidence or pound sand.

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KickFacemouth@reddit

A.k.a mass panic or mass delusion. Another good example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_windshield_pitting_epidemic

Although natural windshield pitting had been going on for some time, it was only when the media called public attention to it that people actually looked at their windshields and saw damage they had never noticed before.

It's the same thing at work here, just replace "windshield" with "sky" and "pitting" with "airplanes"

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slyskyflyby@reddit

Yup, 100% that's what's going on. People are just feeding off of each other in this feedback loop of drone this and drone that. I saw a couple videos of people shining lasers at planes claiming they are alien drones as well, and people talking about how they should take a shot at one to see how it reacts. I swear if I take a bullet on approach to McGuire imma be pissed. It's probably more dangerous to land there right now than it is in Israel or Iraq.

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turbo2world@reddit

why blame the people when its the NEWS outlets making the hysteria

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turbo2world@reddit

then why is a congressman claiming its Iran drones?

even tho shipping tracker shows the iranian ship is nowhere near usa...

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cold_rush@reddit

Are you by chance living in NJ? I have seen these things flying low, hovering briefly time to time last week. They are not small drones like we typically see. They are lit up which makes me think it is govt entity flying them. It could be done to garner public support to fund anti drone tech etc.

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6,000 starlink satellites are up there now.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Okay, sure. But that isn't related to this situation. You got people that live between and airport and a flight path for final approach for that airport and theyre saying they see 50 - 60 drones every night. These people are absolutely brain dead. I dont understand how its gotten so bad.

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cqb420@reddit

Just to play devils advocate here, we know that the FBI is on the ground in New Jersey and they’re also saying they don’t know what these things are. Many of them are hovering and zigging back and forth like a drone would and a plane wouldn’t.

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notaredditer13@reddit

Have a link to any in particular? Other than one NJ congressman I'm not seeing anything meaningful. And what that guy is saying was debunked by the military.

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AlunWH@reddit

Pentagon: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crrwz91wqd9o.amp

FBI: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-agency-concerning-mysterious-drones-new-jersey.amp

New Jersey authorities: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna183758

Coast Guard: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna183758

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notaredditer13@reddit

Pentagon: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crrwz91wqd9o.amp

Thanks. That's a weird response to my request. The Pentagon says there that the "Iranian mothership" claim is false, contrary to local politicians claims that are....uh...out there, to say the least. So no, the Pentagon isn't confirming drones in that link.

FBI: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-agency-concerning-mysterious-drones-new-jersey.amp

That link says the FBI doesn't know anything. Again, not a positive response to my request.

New Jersey authorities: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna183758

'local officials don't know anything except that they are drones. Probably some are Iranian.' Uh huh. Well the second part was debunked in the first link and since they don't know anything, yeah, I don't trust they know they are drones. Just local politicians trying to get a clip on the news.

Your last link is a repeat of the previous. However, I have hear a second-hand account from a "NJ authority" that they heard from the Coast Guard that a boat was followed by some drones. That's... thin but it's better than nothing at all.

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AlunWH@reddit

I might have misunderstood your request. I said the authorities were taking it seriously, you asked for links, so I gave them.

All of the links show that the authorities are taking this seriously.

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notaredditer13@reddit

Oh, ok. That's what 'taking it seriously' means to you? I'm not seeing how you could believe that based on those links, but fair enough.

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AlunWH@reddit

They’re certainly taking it seriously here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UAP/s/gxTvBq3qPE

No, they're there because that's what people who try to capture the drones on video are actually capturing. You can't just handwave it all away as spooky disinformation.

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juice06870@reddit

I live in southwestern Connecticut and i saw some drones on Nov 24. We do live near the flight paths for a few airports but I am very familiar with where the airplanes come and go from. These were not in those flight paths.

We live up on a bit of a hill facing in the direction of Long Island sound, and one night I happened to walk by the window and I saw an immensely bright light in the sky. I stepped out the front door and it was very eerie. It was much brighter than any of the plane lights, it was slowly moving in a west-east direction. Since it was dark out, I could not tell at all how far away it was or how large it was. To my eye, it seemed very large, but I could t determine how far. If I had to take a guess I would say a mile or 2.

Then from the southwest 2 more sets of bright lights were coming in that same direction. They arrived near the same area and they were all slowly hovering in a west-east direction. However the 3rd one returned from the direction it came before returning again.

I wax mesmerized by them. I tried to get some photos on my iPhone but they came out really poorly.

They showed up the next 2 or 3 nights in a row, at least. But after that I was out of the house for a few evenings. Only a few days later did the news stories start popping up about the drones over New Jersey. I haven’t seen them here since.

I didn’t know what to make of them. They seemed way too big and expensive to be someone’s hobby drones. Also I wouldn’t understand why someone would fly 3 or more hobby drones when it was so dark out.

I thought maybe it was the state doing some kind of survey work, but again, I would think that would be better during the day.

Finally I thought that maybe it wax law enforcement using them to try to track some some kind of suspect or suspects. But once I saw the drones over the same area the following 2 nights, I ruled it out.

I wish I hopped into my car and drove to where I thought I might be able to get a better look. If they return then I am going to.

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notaredditer13@reddit

Did you check if they were on flightradar24?

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juice06870@reddit

I did not. Since they appeared to be drones I did not think that they would show up on there.

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notaredditer13@reddit

Since they appeared to be drones

Based on what? Am I correct that what you saw was a single bright white light from each "object"? You are correct that it's impossible to tell the size, height or distance of an object at night if it's just a light. There's no way to know from that alone if they were drones. Could be a searchlight on a police helicopter, could be distant airplane landing lights that drown-out their position lights, etc. And please make sure you positively identify Venus when making these observations.

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juice06870@reddit

I look at the sky quite a bit. Which is why I follow both the aviation and astronomy subs. I know what Venus looks like lol. I live in a busy flight path for a few major airports. So I know what airplanes and helicopters look like day and night along with their typical and atypical flight patterns.

Anyway I missed my chance to try to get a closer look or at least take a (shitty) video. This was back in November and they haven’t been back since.

I understand your desire to try to poke holes in everyone’s story. But I know what I didn’t see, and I don’t know exactly what I saw.

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notaredditer13@reddit

Ok, I get that you're confident, but that doesn't actually say anything about your sightings. I'm not interested in how confident you are, I'm interested in what you saw. And not what you think you saw, what you actually saw. If anything, telling me how confident you are makes me more skeptical, not less, because you're avoiding examination of your perceptions -- you're actually saying it in plain English that your perceptions don't require examination. That's a really bad look.

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juice06870@reddit

Well obviously once the news picked up on it, everyone and their neighbor is going to start reporting that they “saw things”. No one is disputing that some or many of these people are seeing normal aircraft or something. Remember that half the population are morons.

I mean I don’t give a flying shit how skeptical you are. I’m not here to convince YOU of anything. I just shared my one story about this save kind of event. Some people just like to come onto Reddit and be completely obtuse to other users for some strange reason, and that is the vibe I get from a lot of your comment history. So I guess if that makes you feel like you are smart or something, then have at it.

If these 3 objects return, which i doubt they will, I’ll be sure to check all your boxes for you.

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exohugh@reddit

To my eye, it seemed very large, but I could t determine how far. If I had to take a guess I would say a mile or 2.

It is physically impossible to determine the distance to a flying object you cannot identify. It could be orbiting at 200km moving 6 miles a second, or it could be 200m away and moving 6 miles an hour - they would look identical.

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juice06870@reddit

That's a fair comment.

Based on how bright and large the lights were from my view, I don't think the objects could have been "too" far away. Certainly now that I think about it, it could have been more than a mile or 2.

As the crow flies from my house, Long Island and the flight paths for the airports are about 11-12 miles away. There is no way these objects were that far. But they could have been a few miles further over Long Island Sound between CT and LI.

Now I regret not taking a video, even though it would not have been very good. The 2 photos I took are worthless, just giant balls of light in the sky.

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BAN_MOTORCYCLES@reddit

nothing you stated justifies you calling them drones and the fact that you are saying drones at all clearly demonstrates that you are making things up

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MicahBurke@reddit

Take video, record the direction, time, date, location.

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bencahn@reddit

Bummed I had to scroll this far for a take like this. Obviously some of these are planes but man. Some aren’t.

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leafbelly@reddit

I was watching a YouTube video last night and someone -- with a completely straight face -- said that the drone was showing evidence of ... gravitational lensing.

Yup. Last week after the FBI announced they were investigating, the UAP/UFO community pointed to it as proof something was happening. Now that the FBI has stated "it's misidentified airplanes... operating legally... no confirmed drones" it's a cover up!!!

Unfalsifiable.

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enjayee711@reddit

I keep seeing the same video clips over and over. And theres a mothership too? Totally hilarious

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bakedrocketscientist@reddit

I get people are getting paranoid and thinking regular planes are drones but there are some instances where the local and federal authorities don't know what's going on. My theory is Air Force testing out drone capabilities or testing vulnerability on certain bases.

My question is about the SEATAC ATC and commercial pilots reporting lights by the Pacific.

Here's ATC talking to multiple pilots.

Here are the videos pilot sent to ATC

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Gadritan420@reddit

Well, the pentagon stated they are not US military.

So idk, contractors? But then what company wants to assume the risk of creating a situation like this.

hamhockman@reddit

I'd like to remind everyone, the Pentagon can lie

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Gadritan420@reddit

What!? Are you serious!? They would never!!! /s

Seriously though, this would be a stretch even for them.

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easy18big@reddit

Why focus on actual strangeness when we can show a few videos of actual planes at night and assume every single sighting must obviously be a plane? I've been told these pilots seeing things must be crazy and shouldn't be allowed to fly anymore.

I just hate how immediately dismissive people are on this subject. Just because a bunch of average citizens are mis-identifying planes doesn't mean there isn't an active drone problem around military bases. Usless of course you want to believe that the government entities reporting them are also too stupid to know what is and isn't a plane.

When it comes to pilots both airline and military, we need to take their reports very seriously. Shout out to Ryan graves and https://www.safeaerospace.org/

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notaredditer13@reddit

Just because a bunch of average citizens are mis-identifying planes doesn't mean there isn't an active drone problem around military bases.

So, on what do we have to base a conclusion that there IS an active drone problem in NJ?

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easy18big@reddit

Wouldn't that be the Military and Pentagon claiming so? They aren't saying where they are coming from but they are sure acknowledging the problem.

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notaredditer13@reddit

Source?

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I'm pilot. Ikan fly.

Thank goodness an actual comment curious about figuring it out.

This is not a normal situation this sub is trying to paint it as. How can the Pentagon tell us they don’t know where they are coming from, who they are, but they aren’t a threat?

This has been mentioned in other places by other people and been blown off before, but I'll say it again here because this actually really important and matters: the drones so far haven't been shown to be doing anything illegal, and that severely restricts what the authorities even could do about them.

The airspace the drones are being sighted in is all Class G, unrestricted and uncontrolled airspace. Pilots can fly in it wherever they want, whenever they want. They don't need to be in contact with ATC or file flight plans. The same freedoms apply to drones, as long as they stay below 700 feet. They also don't need transponders. This means that as long as they obey that altitude restriction, the drones are legally free to go about their business whatever it is. The authorities - whether local, state, federal, or military:

Cannot restrict the drones from flying over the area
Cannot demand the operators of the drones identify themselves or state their business
Cannot "shoot the drones down", capture them out of the sky, use radio signals to disable them, or interfere with their flights in any way shape or form.

It does not matter what the drones are flying over. Local authorities can complain about "critical infrastructure" all they want; legally, it means nothing. The airspace is unrestricted, so things can fly there.

The only exceptions are Temporary Flight Restrictions, or TFRs. These are small areas of specially restricted airspace that no aircraft or drones are allowed into without permission for as long as the TFRs last. There are two TFRs in the area in question - one over DJT's private golf course, and one over the Picatinny Arsenal. Both went up last month in response to the drone sightings, and there is no evidence that any of the drones have entered those TFR areas since they went up. And it's important to note that before they went up, the airspace over both locations was unrestricted, meaning no drones broke any rules by flying over them, if they did.

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Miserable_Meeting_26@reddit

Very quiet…

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notaredditer13@reddit

Trying not to laugh and hoping the phone doesn't ring?

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MicahBurke@reddit

What are they going to say? We don’t know what the lights you saw are because you didn’t provide any data about the location or time or date that you took the video so until then it’s just lights in the sky. With that data they can go oh that’s American Airlines 231 headed for San Francisco.

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CZ_nitraM@reddit

Yeah, aliens surely, using the lights for flight traffic

And appearing in America near NYC, just like in every B rated alien movie

Life is not Hollywood bruh, people need to wake up

This one is clearly a plane

lochiel@reddit

Theres nobody around to snap people out of it. Every day it gets worse and worse.

People have been challenging and debunking UFO sightings since July 9th, 1947.

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boywithleica@reddit

And ever since that time, the hardcore UFO crowd has refused to listen.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Im not arguing against UFOs. Personally i think they do exist... There's a lot of people in the military that will attest to that. But they sure as hell don't look like a goddamn Boeing 777.

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lochiel@reddit

Not my point.

Are all of these reports confirmed to be airplanes?

100% of them are not confirmed to be anything because the evidence is too low quality for a positive ID.

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Continued political comments will create a permanent ban.

We in the UK seem to be having some reasonably genuine looking Drone sightings over a couple of USAF airbases here in the UK.

One of the bases has been used by the USAF for various "black ops" in the past, with adjacent roads being shut late at night while "something" either landed or took off...

Fast forward to today, and there have been numerous sightings of drones over the base at night to the point British service personnel have been tasked to patrol the adjacent countryside looking for the perpetrators.

In response to the news, various YouTube "Investigators" have been to the area at night, and flown their drones looking for the "suspect" drones...In fairness they have not been flying over the base itself as that's restricted, but they fly as close as they legally can.

Add to this, there is strong evidence that American and British service personnel are using drones to surveil the base and the adjacent countryside, and the whole sighting situation by Joe Public just starts spiralling out of control...

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LankyKangaroo@reddit

farm drones and work drones have those ident lights too.

When are we going to admit that what they tell us isn’t always accurate? Some of them aren’t airplanes. I’ve seen them too.

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Far_Dragonfruit_1829@reddit

Circa 1960 NASA Ames in California flew the Ryan VZ-3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_VZ-3_Vertiplane

It was responsible for numerous UFO calls to Moffett NAS and police. And it was only being flown in broad daylight, clear weather.

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1_small_step@reddit

Because it's Fox News, and instead of reporting real news they prefer to focus on conspiracy theories.

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N2DPSKY@reddit

As much as I like to beat up on Fox News, right now, they're all kind of guilty of it

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rvrbly@reddit

I’ve been point this out on the UFO threads.

Some of them are pretty interesting, and I do think something is going on.

It was the shape of a fighter jet but much smaller, maybe 20 feet long. Had no dimension, looked like a grey silhouette.

I tried to get a picture but it kept moving and I lost it behind a hill.

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NY_State-a-Mind@reddit

I also think DARPA is testing out autonomous drone swarms in real world conditions.

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slayer_f-150@reddit

That's one theory I find credible.

Testing drones for Project Skyborg.

https://afresearchlab.com/technology/skyborg

I saw a video of them being accompanied by what appeared to be an F-16, which would likely be the X-62 VISTA

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_X-62_VISTA

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NY_State-a-Mind@reddit

This is the kind of thing that makes the most sense, DOD has always tested stuff over the mainland.

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N878AC@reddit

We, the USA, commonly maintain a 24/7 combat air patrol over both US and NATO airspace (with our NATO allies).

It is unthinkable that there are unidentified aircraft (drones, planes, balloons, whatever) in our airspace without permission.

Maybe they are not piloted, but programed to fly their profile.

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DinoZambie@reddit (OP)

Maybe theyre shape shifting or have mind control capabilities that makes people think theyre seeing an airplane. Maybe theyre living beings that have come out of the ocean because theyre curious about our nuclear weapons or they want to introduce themselves but are trying not be threatening.

There are actual footage of Drones. Specifically, one where a helicopter was chasing a drone, then the drone disappeared.

A vast majority are videos of helicopters and airplanes.

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The_Cosmic_Coyote@reddit

Fox News is a fucking joke

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Auton_52981@reddit

Maybe so, but Not Funny. One Star.

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theflyingspaghetti@reddit

Brother I'm trying. I think the very term UFO is a motte-and-bailey. Someone says "UFOs have been spotted over military base/powerplant/etc." implying it's some non-human intelligence or has some nefarious purpose. If you confront them that it's clearly just a plane, then they move to the bailey of "Well UFO technically just means unidentified object. Lots of people say it looks like different things. I guess we'll never know for sure."

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