Found out someone with no experience that just started gets paid more than me (2 years in the company). How should I go about this?
Posted by KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 51 comments
I recently found out the person that just started and that has zero experience/qualifications (hasn't even worked in an office before) gets paid more than me (I started 2 years ago and had a bit of experience prior). I know we're not supposed to find these things out but some stuff slipped out while drunk on the Christmas party... I feel defeated tbh as I already get paid shit money (25k btw) and always used the excuse that they are a small company and that's why they don't pay much. Should I speak to my manager about a pay rise? How should I go about this exactly? I was going to have this conversation either way but knowing this new information has made me a little heated.
-KristalG-@reddit
Acknowledge your own fault at accepting a job at low salary. Look for another job with higher salary, meanwhile push for higher salary where you are.
markrinlondon@reddit
Looks for new job and get serious offer FIRST! Leaving (or even attempting to negotiate) before getting a new job is unwise.
Alarmed_Crazy_6620@reddit
Negotiate the pay raise, emphasising your own strengths rather than the new person's salary
gdrlee@reddit
There's (already!) been some pretty depressing responses to OP, but this is the way.
If you want to be paid more, you explain to your employer why you deserve a rise from your current level. There isn't a fairness argument, you don't get a pay rise arguing "it's unfair", but you do now know that they are willing to pay someone of your level more than you are currently earning. So you show them how much more you contribute than you did when they last properly reviewed your pay, and get yourself some of that.
jibbetygibbet@reddit
I don’t think it’s about fairness at all. It is about market value. The fact the company paid X for someone with less experience prices the market value to be above X. This evidence is very valuable leverage.
You say make an argument why you deserve a rise, but that is exactly what this does - it’s not they deserve it to be fair, they deserve it because their value is higher than this other person. People focus too much on “deserving” a raise as if it is some sort of reward but that’s not what pay is - it’s maintaining competitiveness in the employment market.
cgknight1@reddit
So I'm a bit believer in leverage but.. It's a job that in OP's words pays near minimum wage so I would be amazed if that would be worth more than moving on.
jibbetygibbet@reddit
People shouldn’t underestimate what it costs to hire and train a new person, and no time is this more concrete for an employer than when they have just done it, and had to pay more than they are paying you. IMO there is no better time to try, the main thing to avoid is to coming across whiny or as if you’re going to be a pain for them - just factual and calm, ask them to consider what they would have to pay to replace you and surely it is worth more than that to maintain a good employee. You don’t even have to directly reference the other person’s salary, just ask them to consider what the current market value of your role is based on recent hires.
Sadly however if is often the case that you still have to leave in order to keep up with the market as employers are not always very logical - it ends up costing them more when they leave but they kid themselves. Or they simply don’t have the money. But yeah as I said, at least if they have just hired someone and that is pointed out to them it’s as plain as it gets.
cgknight1@reddit
For minimum wage roles, it's just accounted for when paying people minimum wages and that you expect people to come and go.
If it's a minimum wage job that has significant responsibility they are ripping him off anyway and he should leave as a matter of course...
gdrlee@reddit
That's what I was saying. In the microcosm, you argue that you are worth more than you get now.
Buy you base the argument on what today you brings compared to old you, not what you bring compared to 'new guy'.
jibbetygibbet@reddit
But that ignores market value entirely, that’s my point. It’s irrelevant what the difference between old you and new you is if the market value hasn’t changed. Whereas up to date evidence of the market value being higher is solid objective data on why OP’s pay is below market.
KenosisConjunctio@reddit
“The development of my knowledge and skills over my time working here has increased the value I’m producing for the company and I’m not seeing this reflected in my paycheque” is a very firm way of pointing to this.
ActAccomplished586@reddit
Happened to me twice.
Went to the Boss’ desk both times with my notice written and demanded a pay rise.
Affectionate_Run_346@reddit
This happened to me. I worked somewhere 3 years and a new person started with no experience and was paid substantially more than me.
I approached management and asked to match wages. They said I had to complete a course first but that there wasn’t a course available for me to join for 12 months.
So I quit. Immediately found a better paid job.
Jebble@reddit
If you don't know how to sell yourself to earn the pay rise, then why would they give you a pay rise? Have you considered that maybe this person simply negotiates better and youre the bad person in your own story?
tmr89@reddit
Not nice to call OP a bad person
Jebble@reddit
Nice people don't get pay rises, people who stand up for themselves do.
cgknight1@reddit
Sounds like you have been there too long - if are experienced and still on near minimum wage, I doubt you will do as well as just moving on.
Beautiful-Control161@reddit
You absolutely should know what your work mates are on. It's protected under the equality act to promote fair wages
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
I did not know this, I remember hearing that it should be confidential
CheekyYoghurts@reddit
He's talking bollocks. Fair wages and knowing everyone's salary are two completely different things.
Beautiful-Control161@reddit
It's illegal for a company to stop you from discussing wages. I'm not talking bollocks
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
Thanks for clarifying
SongsAboutGhosts@reddit
From a company point of view it is, in the sense that I'm working on our budget for next year so need salary figures to make projections but under no circumstances can I discuss that information with those employees.
On an individual level, however, it's illegal to stop you - I can ask my teammate how much he's on and compare with my own salary, I can tell my own salary to absolutely anyone I want (but obviously they don't have to reciprocate and it may well be a socially weird thing to do if there's no context for it).
Basically, you can tell anyone your own salary but you cannot share salaries of those you've found out through the course of your work duties, rather than socially. I'd also personally err on the side of not naming names if you were sharing someone else's salary, e.g 'someone else in our team is on 5k more than me too' rather than 'do you know what Bob earns? Let me tell you'.
If you wanted to organise, standardised pay across roles can help to ensure some level of fairness and an inability to discriminate (if every receptionist gets 25k a year and no bonus then the receptionist job role will have no gender pay gap, for example). Of course, this does mean that more years of experience or service, or proven track record of better performance, also aren't rewarded so much, as they'd have to be kept to a well defined bonus structure, so it's not a better deal for everyone, which means it may be hard to get everyone to come together.
Uk-reddit-user@reddit
Companies try to stop this information because it gets out who is undervalued or overvalued.
PKblaze@reddit
Just curious but is there an age difference?
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
Yes I am 6 years older
PKblaze@reddit
Oh that's even weirder then. No real excuse for it given the ages you posted in the edit either other than some unfair BS.
Fickle_Acanthaceae17@reddit
I was waiting on an update on my contract for months. I was only on 15hrs which wasn't enough. I'd been there for 3 years at this point. Then they hired two pretty girls fresh out of college and gave them 25 hour contracts. I was absolutely seething, I marched into the managers office and demanded he upped mine to 30 as it was highly unfair and its blatant sexism, I got my own way... this was for the coop (UK) so it was easier to talk shit to your boss with zero consequences
PM_ME_BEEF_CURTAINS@reddit
Join a union
outrageouslyaverage@reddit
It's sad that I had to scroll so far down to see this comment.
I'm a union rep and work at a company where the two have a good relationship.
One of the best things I believe the union and the company have agreed to, is a pay structure and salary increments.
One of the biggest complaints amongst employees/members is discrepancy in pay. When there is a policy/guidance that the company has to follow, it makes it farer and less ambiguous for everyone involved.
whatsername235@reddit
Quite simply, you need to job hunt.
I worked in a place where you had to really earn your yearly raise and after several years, they did a recruitment drive and employed a load of people on a basic wage that was more than 90% of the staff who were working there.
Huge uproar, massive complaints and resentments. What happened? Bugger all except those who complained were treated horribly.
People were talking about leaving and reapplying for the new standard wage and were told quite clearly that they wouldn't be successful.
Unsurprisingly, they had a ridiculously high rate of mental health sickness because nobody cared about the people.
Get out while you still have some fire in you. It's too easy to get comfortable and accept your lot. You deserve more.
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
That’s insane. I do sometimes feel like a child discovering the world I must say. I still expect people to do the right thing including employers. But thank you for the encouraging words. I will start looking for other jobs.
jungleboy1234@reddit
i am same as you OP, but the problem is and i have found that the job offers are in places far away, meaning travelling. When i factor in the cost of travel, taxes (especially rail fares) that can eat up the increase in income and time.
whatsername235@reddit
I now work supporting others in their employment and sadly, a lot of places still give not one little shite about the people.
Saying that, there are amazing employers out there. Look for recommendations. Check out Glassdoor reviews, but only concentrate on recent or relevant reviews.
Research the companies in any way you can. Always remember that at interview stage, you want them to impress you too. You're also interviewing them in a way to decide if it's the right fit
Massive example of an incredible company I found for someone, they get a wellbeing day a month. Literally once a month you get paid to call in and go, nah, not today.
They are out there. It just takes time to find them.
when_this_was_fields@reddit
Ask if there is any chance of being promoted to this other person's position/grade. Just make out you're ambitious.
tmr89@reddit
They said below that they do two different job roles
when_this_was_fields@reddit
That's why they should ask for promotion to the other role. Puts the employer on the spot.
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
Technically her role is a downgrade though but I guess this would make them feel stupid lol
angel_0f_music@reddit
Do you mean that they are doing the same job as you and getting paid more?
Is it only a temporary job to familiarise themselves with that job before they take on a more senior position? You say they have no experience, but what does that mean? Have they just joined the company? It's possible they have experience with a different company in a similar role, or they've moved from elsewhere in the company. What industry are we talking about? How old are you (You can pay under-21s less than older-21s)?
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
Theirs is less technical and more admin based, mine is more accounts/operations based and did require some experience which is why it’s confusing. I believe they’ve put the salary up due to not being able to find someone? I know they were looking for someone for a while. Also I am 30 (new person is 24)
EvilTaffyapple@reddit
They’re completely different roles. Salaries depend on other things other than length of time in role / previous experience.
KaleidoscopeSe3086@reddit (OP)
I get that but this was never the case in this company, it’s very small and no matter the role (unless it’s manager) the basic pay is the same. Another person started not long ago on the same pay as new person, but I assumed she had a lot more experience but turns out that could have been the same thing. I think the company just upped their basic pay on new jobs while keeping the current staff on lower pay which is definitely not fair but I guess life also
angel_0f_music@reddit
So yes, you are doing different jobs, in a role that was hard to fill for whatever reason. That's probably the reason for the pay.
If you feel like you deserve a pay rise, put together a document outlining why and take it to your team leader or equivalent. If that is denied and you still want a pay rise, look into working for a different company that will pay you what you're worth.
Ok-Train5382@reddit
Find a new job.
Use that as leverage if you have a new offer or leave.
But never assume a job will pay you more without you having other options
FatBloke4@reddit
Start looking for other jobs.
LordBielsa@reddit
Look at your job at different companies and either use this to leverage a raise (along with general job performance points) or leave and join a new company
polymath_uk@reddit
Get another firm offer set up and then ask for a rise. If you don't get it, leave. Life's too short to get shat on like that. But, make absolutely certain about the other person's pay and any other relevant conditions.
Flaky_Walrus_668@reddit
Don't mention that you know what the other person gets paid.
Explain to your manager why you feel they should be paying you more than they are - experience, asset to the team etc as well as going rate elsewhere. Explain that you love the job but if they are unable to pay you a fair rate then you will have no choice but to look for other jobs, you really don't want to do that but with your current expenses it's no longer sustainable to keep working on your current pay.
Flat_Development6659@reddit
The answer to this is always the same, if you're not willing to apply elsewhere then you deserve to be underpaid.
You give pay rises to retain employees, if your employee isn't going to leave anyway then it makes business sense to pay them as little as possible.
No_Preference9093@reddit
Brush up your CV, look for some jobs, and tell your manager you’d like a pay rise.
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