New regional FO financial tips
Posted by Uniform44@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 77 comments
Any suggestions or financial planning tips or software for a new FO? I am pretty frugal and have some student loans but not much.
Better-Radish-5757@reddit
Do not take on debt, make a budget, invest consistently, pay cash/debit for everything. Live below your means.
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
Be aware a furlough or airline merger, resale can happen any time especially when you think you are bullet proof.
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
That will never happen to me! (haha)
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
Never say never; First merger I was laid off before the seniority list was put together, went to a non sked furloughed after landing in Kingston, Jamaica no ticket home. Air Jamaica chief gave me a ride to JFK three hours after my furlough notice was delivered by the station manager. Two other friends same day also furloughed that way; which is against the law but you do what you have to do, in this case soft begging worked. Went to work for a German non sked for two years they went bankrupt while on a layover in LAX - stranding 50,000 plus passengers worldwide. The Captain while the company credit card still worked bought us all tickets to JFK. Passing through JFK stopped to see my first Chief he told me I was recalled in 45 days, "what were my intentions?" I went back over to the UAL terminal where 5 DC8, complete crews were lounging until the LH flight; actually after awhile the UAL station manager kicked us out of their terminal. When I told I had a class date my Norwegian Captain said; "you know only in America could this happen, like so." The German government took us back to FRA that night. Family was in FRA. In laws lived in Scotland drove there, so now half the problem was solved leave family with in laws who loved it. Put my daughter in a Scottish primary school. Now how to get to JFK to get a flight to impending class. Oh yes they went bankrupt the day before payday. Called my chief in FRA he called his pals at KLM in Amsterdam. The defunct airline had paid up front for a ton of simulator time. So KLM gave me a pass from GLA to AMS to JFK. While in Scotland counting how many of my nine lives I had used up; the door bell rang, the postman had a huge package for me, it had cost $56 to send in 1970's money. It had all my company 727 manuals and schematics having been 727 qualified I ignored the gift, as I was not getting paid for home study, did not even lug it to school getting new ones there. Talk about waste. I had parked my 66 mustang at JFK in a friendly airline crew lot, Seaboard World Airways a major freight carrier; they merged into FTL then FedEx. The day I got back I went to see if the car still existed, it was covered with two inches of airport and snow storm grime, tires good, someone had stolen the battery. Mechanic took me to auto shop and helped me install a new battery. Car started up and ran beautifully for 7 more years. Went over to my new employer got my pass to ground school plus a parking pass from them and went to school. After that; one almost furlough where they put us on 1/2 pay for 6 months, later this was deemed illegal by NY State. Integrated list came out I had lost 300 numbers from date of hire on a 3,600 person seniority list. Placed close to the bottom over the next 30 years 37 years total, worked my way up to fewer than number 100 on a 12,000 person list. My favorite part I out lived all the numbers I lost (seniority wise)... I was eight years younger than most of the list. Went through three more mergers one I was on the surviving carrier's merger committee. The few furloughs were well behind me until the massive hiring astounding me were the days of purchasing two hundred aircraft at time. Pretty daunting stuff as my first schedule airline only had 10 planes 727s, DC8's and one 707. As my major major CEO told me in a negotiating session; pilots are just interchangeable part numbers. Being a pilot in the airlines is much like being on a checker board never knowing when you will be killed off by Wall Street or king for the day.
minfremi@reddit
How far does your “do not” go in your list ꉂ🤣𐤔. Sounds like one shouldn’t make a budget and etc.
Guysmiley777@reddit
Pay off the loans as fast as you can. Being debt free is a glorious thing.
FrankThePilot@reddit
Depends. It does feel great, but depending on your personal feelings and the interest rate, being in your 20s is amazing for compound interest in the long term with your 401k and ROTH IRA.
Beaker_the_wolverine@reddit
Compounding interest cuts both ways. Low interest rates (near 3%) are basically free money. At 10% it’s close to the long term gains in the stock market and choosing to pay off debt starts to make sense because it’s the sure thing.
Above 10% and there’s a strong advantage to pay off debt, but things like tax advantages and company matches factor in there.
Sequence of returns is generally a risk later in life and not much of an advantage early. Having two years in a row with market returns >20% (one likely above 40%) is unusual at best but there’s a huge difference when that balance is <100k (new FO) and when it’s over $1M. Then behaviorally there’s a big difference when it’s a loss because people tend to panic more over losing $300k and they lock in those losses.
TraxenT-TR@reddit
I agree with this only if you can usually beat the 5% general rate the market gives. My loans are at 6.8% fixed (federal) and so it makes more sense to try to kill those within next 5 years and then have 35 years left to invest
Embarrassed_Spirit_1@reddit
I don't know why you're being downvoted, I'm up 42% YTD in my portfolio. That sure as hell makes more financial sense than to pay off my 2.99% student loan before I invest in the stock market
FrankThePilot@reddit
No idea, but I’ll die on that hill. I even said it depends. It’s up to each individual to figure out what’s right for them but they need to know the options/strategies available to them. That’s why it’s called PERSONAL finance.
Stewardess-Slayer@reddit
Don’t marry a flight attendant
bottomfeeder52@reddit
why? just curious
Stewardess-Slayer@reddit
Consider the type of person a job like that attracts
bottomfeeder52@reddit
the same type as a pilot? break it down for me so I don’t fall for one
Stewardess-Slayer@reddit
Many of them (men and women) become a flight attendant to become an international whore.
No judgement if that’s how they want to live their life many pilots do the same thing but marrying one is not financially smart considering pilots can easily make 6-7x their salary
SevereKoala4613@reddit
This stereotype is really tired and outdated.
Stewardess-Slayer@reddit
Don’t try to deny my lived experience sweetheart
SevereKoala4613@reddit
Don’t try to deny mine either 🤷🏻♀️ At least at my mainline carrier, most flight attendants stick around for the aforementioned reasons. Along with 401k and health insurance. Never even heard of someone banging a rando on the overnight.
It’s like people saying pilots are attracted to the lifestyle so they can cheat on their wives and have entire families in other countries. It’s a stupid untrue stereotype. If you hate flight attendants, just say that.
Unfair-Promotion-137@reddit
Marry the domestic flying only and who became an FA because they also love planes.
NuttPunch@reddit
The job sells itself as a job where you can party and travel the world with minimal requirements or training. Pilots require a ton of investment and certification. The jobs are not equivalent in who they attract at all.
Ok-Door-4991@reddit
Especially at the regionals!
RepresentativeOfnone@reddit
He’s clearly trying to throw you off of their glorious scent.
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
glorious
Ok-Door-4991@reddit
😂
febrileairplane@reddit
You know it's good advice because it comes from an expert
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
Seriously brilliant aeronautical advice.
Capital-Cricket-1010@reddit
shouldnt be a problem unless you’re looking to marry a gay black guy
Unlikely_Piece_8906@reddit
So fucking true lmao. And the ones who actually are hot women are in your face unapologetic whores lol. Literally had one the other day telling me and the other pilot about how many dates she goes on with randoms on overnights that she meets dating apps.
She’s not the only one either. Like come on we really don’t give a fuck or want to hear about it and you’re just making yourself look bad. Keep that shit yourself 🤦♂️ So glad I have a gf before becoming an airline pilot. I want none of that drama
OccupyMyBallSack@reddit
Flight attendants are broke. She’s just getting free dinner every night.
NuttPunch@reddit
You know that joke. What separates an alcoholic from a whore? The cockpit door.
RaidenMonster@reddit
“Grandes, grannies, and gays.”
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
I'll keep that in mind u/Stewardess-Slayer
Cunning_Stun@reddit
Don't go into wallstreetbets
FrankThePilot@reddit
Look up "The Money Guy Show" and follow their Financial Order of Operations. It spells out exactly what you need to do and in what order, airline pilot or not. Their podcast is also great for learning a lot about what to do and not to do in the financial aspect of life.
Secondly, might want to pack your food for trips. Get an ice pack bag to keep it cold in a cooler bag. Every hotel will have ice and most of my regional hotels also had microwaves. This saves tons of money and is also healthier than the trash you'll eat on the road otherwise. You'll end up using your tax-free per diem for your entire grocery bill for the month just doing this.
Try your absolute best to live a "rank" down. Once you upgrade, don't feel like you can dramatically upgrade your lifestyle. Keep your expenses the same as when you were an FO so that when you go to a legacy, the pay cut doesn't hit that much.
If you commute, your regional may have an account to use pre-tax money to pay for parking expenses at the airport.
In short, just live below your means. Keep that beater car (its gonna just sit at the airport anyways, you don't need Starbucks every leg of the trip, you don't need the fancy apartment you'll be gone from half the month either.
If you have any questions, you can PM me. Personal finance and investing is a bit of a hobby and I try to only give people advice on principles/guidelines rather than PUT IT ALL IN XYZ STOCK!
Better-Radish-5757@reddit
Solid advise!
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
kommandee@reddit
Get a new Mercedes or BMW to flex that you’re an AIRLINE PILOT.
ryanworldleader@reddit
Pay off loans and any other high interest debt. 401k up to company match. HSA maxed. Roth ira matched. After that, money into an after tax brokerage.
Avoid speculative or high risk investing/trading. DCA into historically safe, well performing ETF’s like VOO or VTI. Try to minimize expense ratios and advisor fees. Do your own research on how to balance your portfolio as you age.
Dont spend based on future income. Everytime you get a raise, invest the difference. Dont buy boats, cars, etc.
Keep your first wife.
49-10-1@reddit
Or just go to https://www.bogleheads.org/
AssistantAstronaut@reddit
A fellow boglehead
RemarkableScarcity8@reddit
Buy an FO house soon so you don’t lifestyle creep into a captain house the year of your upgrade.
sniper4273@reddit
Never budget for more than min guarantee.
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
Don’t have a pregnant wife and then knock up a flight attendant on a layover… let alone one in your base.
True story. The idiot is refusing to tell his wife…
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Unreal. I bet that's not even the worst. Pilots are getting over their skis
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
Well… his plan is to simply have 2 families and hope they never meet.
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Aviation mythology right there
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
The story? No. I know this FO personally and spent I can’t tell you how long listening to his excuses.
Or do you mean keeping them separate?
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Nvm. Wild stuff. I just plan to go in, fly the line and leave.
119725@reddit
Budget for min guarantee and you’ll never be disappointed. If you catch yourself saying “if I can credit ___ then I can afford _____” you can’t afford it
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
So if the minimum guarantee is 75 hours of pay every month, budget for that amount, and anything above and beyond that goes in the bank or goes into paying additional payments on loans? For example
VillageIdiotsAgent@reddit
www.ynab.com
The price of the subscription is well worth it. It takes some getting used to, but it has worked for me when more conventional budgeting hasn't.
SaguaroSteve@reddit
Second this app, I’ve used it for almost 10 years now, love it. Holds you accountable. Amazing what you find out when you start keeping track.
NuttPunch@reddit
What does this do that a spreadsheet doesn't do?
VillageIdiotsAgent@reddit
Enough. I'm not a ynab salesman, I'd just direct you to check it out.
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
You’re not making that much money, relax.
21MPH21@reddit
Take my down vote
OP is making $90,000 a year before OT and per diem. Easily 3 - 4 times what OP made as a CFI.
OP live your first few FO years as if you were still a CFI. Live below your means and pay off high interest debts. Then save.
Purple_BuCkt@reddit
Ima go on a limb it’s much more than what he made as a CFI… seems like a fair question to me😫
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
Fly every hour offered put anything extra into killing off your off your pesky student loans. Skip the pre flight Starbucks. If your contract pays extra for holidays fly it, celebrate the next day. If you stumble and fall into the marriage deep well have a solid prenup! Understand the laws that some states have regarding common law marriage that you may blunder into. A prenup saved me a huge seven figure sum in a second marriage to a beautiful but cunning flight attendant. On so many Atlantic and Pacific crossings I heard divorce horror stories especially from Californians. I even heard a woman FO complain about not having a prenup - what a world. Everyone thinks divorce caused poverty cannot happen to them, remember the airports all over the world are littered with such brilliant thinkers. The more you make the more they will take. Consider for some being married and dividing assets is like dealing with the FAA and IRS combined on the same day in court when they fly you into the financial dumpster. Being warned is to be aware - consider yourself warned by the been there done that experts... Conversely I know many people that married high school sweethearts did pilot training and are 45 years plus married wonderfully together; much like in-flight engine failures it does happen. I was told by a chief pilot (while I was domicile chairperson of a 3,000 pilot base,) talking about a pilot who was very much a wreck from a pending divorce; he lamented pilots are targets the same as Doctors. In this case I was authorised to have a professional standards chat with him and send him on a couple week hunting fishing trip, no personal record notations, and no recriminations. The chief pilot flew his trips missed by assigning himself to fly them. That is what the really great Chiefs do. He was also my best man on my second occasion, ultimately becoming VP flight and the chief pilot; as I called him the capo dei capi, or "boss of bosses". So many FA's told me they met their spouse trolling and working first class it is one of the most lucrative hunting grounds in the world. You can of course pay a financial planner; Reddit is free advice and after a divorce you will not be able to afford free, so listen carefully to the pathfinders. When you are counting the excess pennies you have at the end of the month don't forget the flare.
B-707, B-727, B-757, B-767, B-777, MD-80, DC-8, DC-10, Lots of school and enough simulator time to fill its own log book...
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the wisdom! Who'd have thought doctors/pilots are like the whales going into casinos. What's the best way to break a prenup to a fiance or girlfriend? haha
Fit-Bedroom6590@reddit
Early in the relationship; if it is a no go do not let the relationship pass go and start the hunt all over again. A prenup can be modified with children and the ongoing success of the marriage once your whole treasury and retirement is at risk so are you, it is only your life in poverty that you are risking.
Turbulent_Employ_129@reddit
The boat comes after your first divorce and the plane after the second. Harley is optional
reve-dore@reddit
Deposit your pay checks into an investment portfolio (don’t take investment advice from me- get a financial planner) and pay yourself year 1 reserve guarantee into a checking account and live off of that. Never change it, there’s no reason you can’t live off of $75,000 as a single guy, even married without kids that’s very comfortable. Pay increases and bonuses all get invested. When it comes time to buy a house, or a rainy day, you’ll have a big cushion.
This is how my wife and I do our finances. 100% of her income was invested and saved and we lived off of my reserve guarantee.
InGeorgeWeTrust_@reddit
Tinder premium is worth the cost
DaedalusLabyrinth@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics/
Max out 401k, HSAs, savings etc. first. Do not give into lifestyle creep. Invest in low cost index funds.
prex10@reddit
Don't blow it. Count your money
Choconilla@reddit
You’re welcome everyone!
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
now I get it haha
bottomfeeder52@reddit
I have a budgeting template I can email you for free from google sheets that I made. DM me
Tman3355@reddit
Don't take financial advice from a pilot lol
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
real
MLZ005@reddit
Track what you spend and make a simple budget with a google drive or similar template
Pay off loans first
Buy a car used or economy new
Pay off statement balance all credit cards in full by the due date monthly
Contribute to retirement, match the percentage minimum. Max out Roth IRA yearly until you make too much
Avoid hotel and food delivery on layovers unless necessary
Find housing under 30% of gross pay maximum
Uniform44@reddit (OP)
Thanks! Plan to live in base
4Sammich@reddit
Plan for your commuting costs esp if you don't have a car in base. Lyfts can get pretty expensive.
Khantahr@reddit
No different from financial advice for anyone else. At least you're making more than $19.02/hr.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Any suggestions or financial planning tips or software for a new FO? I am pretty frugal and have some student loans but not much.
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