[Car and Driver] What We Learned After Testing a Subaru BRZ for 40,000 Miles.
Posted by Juicyjackson@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 130 comments
https://youtu.be/zqoIBnzs4X4?si=cPEpy4h5Xk4pFkR5
Car and Driver bought and tested a BRZ for 40k Miles, this is their reaction and conclusion video.
Pretty raving review and backs up their decision to keep the BRZ/GR86 in their 10Best Cars for 2025 feature.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a62988657/10best-cars-2025/
Seems like a gem of a car if you are able to sacrifice a little bit of practicality, but don't want to go all the way to a miata and only have 2 seats with almost no cargo capacity.
otirkus@reddit
This is one of the best daily driver sports cars out there. Cheap, decent cargo space, and you get Toyota reliability! These cars are also very easy to modify, so if slapping on a supercharger or aftermarket exhaust is your thing, have fun!
constant-hunger@reddit
If I was in the market for one. I'd buy a WR blue BRZ and slap a paint matched GR86 front bumper. Winning combo.
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
Even though they are the same car in 99.99% of the way it matters and it is (or was) a lot easier to get a BRZ without a markup, I was always baffled that the GR86 gets all the praise/hype/discussion. Same car!
BloodDK22@reddit
Me too. For no reason. I bought my 2022 BRZ in late 2021 and paid $500 under MSRP. No idea why dudes and dudettes are throwing free money at toyota for the same car. Oh well.
Nice long term review. My car only has 12K on it but it’s been a blast.
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
Yep, my local dealer is doing $2k+ off all Subaru inventory, WRX's are at like $3k under MSRP, BRZ's are $2k under.
While some Toyota dealers are still selling GR86's at $5k over MSRP.
Funny_Frame1140@reddit
Why are the BRZs less expensive than the GR86 when its the same car?
HOONIGAN-@reddit
I'm totally guessing out of my ass here, but maybe Subaru gets 'dibs' on having a lower MSRP since they're the ones actually producing the car. The car is primarily a Subaru anyway.
Gunslingermomo@reddit
It's not a lower MSRP, it's just more people wanting the GR86. There's a few reasons, Toyota brand rates higher, the front end is preferred, people read that it's easier to drift bc of the suspension differences. As a brand, Toyota generally marks up their stuff, Subaru more often discounts.
kevindlv@reddit
Yeah dealer markups are just supply and demand. So ultimately the demand for the GR86 is that much higher, which is really weird because they're almost exactly the same. Like even if you liked the GR86 more because of whatever minuscule difference, I can't imagine that being like a $6k difference (unless it's like a paint preference)
Gunslingermomo@reddit
I do like the GR86 front a lot more. But I've noticed the brz looks pretty good in black and I like black cars a lot, so I might go with that.
Duct_tape_bandit@reddit
weeaboo tax
Fatigue-Error@reddit
Probably because Toyota can get away with charging more.
PigSlam@reddit
They add 60 more grams of reliability at the Toyota dealership. Subaru only puts 2 scoops in theirs, so Toyota adds a little more.
BrewsedSloth@reddit
Bc dealers now realize you slap “TOYOTA” on it, the consumer will bite.
NordGinger917@reddit
Can confirm when I worked at Toyota some things had a 15k markup.
lowstrife@reddit
I would debage it to just "YO"
hi_im_bored13@reddit
And unlike the gr you can actually get a manual
RodRAEG@reddit
I got my GR86 in manual.
walmarttshirt@reddit
Not sure why you are getting downvoted?
Porshuh@reddit
Because he responded seriously to a facetious comment.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
You can, but it’s difficult because toyota doesn’t build to order/demand, they ship what they want.
Subaru usually has much better availability of the manual
ob_knoxious@reddit
Additionally, while Toyota has been in some hot water about not honoring the warranty on it's performance cars Subaru has not had the same issues!
bz86@reddit
subaru will just fix the car. toyota will claim is impossible to have broken without you causing it and will decline your shit
DrunkRespondent@reddit
I would take the GR exterior with the Subie internals because that BRZ face is hard to look at. I hear people get used to it but that smiley face is just a bit much for me vs the aggressive GR facia.
Cman1200@reddit
IMO the aggressive face of the 86 doesn’t fit the car. It’s a small low power coupe far more akin to a happy Miata than an aggressive Supra.
I was aiming for a GR but the dealership experience led me right to Subaru. I will confidently say the BRZ looks way better in person, it does grow on you.
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
I kind of like the BRZ more.
I hate how all cars look super aggressive, the front of the BRZ looks like it's smiling and happy!
The front of the GR86 looks mean and angry.
Blanket_monsters@reddit
Miata vibes
Porshuh@reddit
Big agree, but unfortunately I'll just have to cite this thread from now on when we get our bimonthly r/cars "Why are new cars so angry?" discussion.
renesys@reddit
It looks like a smol kitten trying to look mean and angry, so basically adorable. GR86 isn't scaring anyone.
injineer@reddit
Yeah I like the GR86 grille and ducktail spoiler a lot more but that’s personal preference and I’m sure people have swapped them onto their BRZs
Leasud@reddit
I believe there are slight differences in the suspension but yeah basically the same shit
HankSteakfist@reddit
To me it's because the GR86 front bumper is far far more handsome.
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
Idk about you, but spending $7k more for a front bumper and slightly cheaper suspension parts is quite an interesting idea.
BEEPBOPIAMAROBOT@reddit
The person buying the car has to walk out and look at it every day if you find it ugly, it's not worth owning. I waited for an MSRP GR86 when I got mine even though a BRZ was easier to find 100% only because of how ugly the front of the BRZ is. To each their own.
LA-ncevance@reddit
Just swap out the front bumper?
BEEPBOPIAMAROBOT@reddit
Nobody wants to trade for the BRZ bumper lol
LA-ncevance@reddit
Buy one for $500?
BEEPBOPIAMAROBOT@reddit
And get it painted, sure. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it's a pain in the ass when you can just buy the version of the car that looks nice from the factory.
HankSteakfist@reddit
Oh, no doubt. The BRZ is the better deal by far.
renesys@reddit
Because BRZ looks kinda derp.
SqueezyCheez85@reddit
I'm my area it was the opposite.
eb86@reddit
Doesn't the GR86 have a different suspension setup? Iirc sway bars, spring rates, struts, and rise height?
I tried to get the GR86, but they were so scarce and I had something else fall in my lap.
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
Very slight differences that 95% of people won’t notice, and the BRZ actually has a few higher quality materials like aluminum knuckles. And all that goes out the window with aftermarket changes that these cars are popular for.
MVolkJ1975@reddit
It's also way easier to get the color/spec you want on a BRZ because Subaru can and will build to order, and Toyota won't.
meatpie07@reddit
It sucks because as an old gen BRZ owner I actually prefer the new gen 86 over the brz because of the front bumper and the color options that Toyota offers (baby blue and the red).
SaintTastyTaint@reddit
Its a nice car and I looked at getting one, but the naturally aspirated engine combined with low horse power meant it was a non starter living in Alberta where all our fun roads are at elevation
justaderp3000@reddit
You’re getting downvoted, but this seems like a pretty reasonable take to me fwiw
touko3246@reddit
I own a previous gen facelift 86 and I could carry my skis or even a Billy IKEA bookshelf package with (almost) no problem.
*I had to give up 6th gear when transporting the bookshelf as it was in the way of the shifter.
middlepedal@reddit
As a motorcyclist with a Miata as my Costco car, I snorted at the “sacrifice practicality” line. What do they think average people are carrying every day?
BuildingHealthy2164@reddit
I had a roll bar on my Miata, it gave it way more utility! Throw lumber on top. Miata is the answer
strongmanass@reddit
Children.
A55_LORD@reddit
When my first son was born, I was holding onto my first-gen slammed FRS. I would put that little dude in the back with a car seat and drove with my knees hitting the steering wheel. I caved after a couple months and bought a mini-van. Currently saving for my fun “dad hatch”.
coffeeshopslut@reddit
Kid couldn't go on the passenger side?
A55_LORD@reddit
That’s where the groceries/wife goes!!
Rihsatra@reddit
That's where my daughter sits in my car. I'm sure I have slightly more room than an 86 but carseats in coupes is very doable.
clownpirate@reddit
Back in ye ole’ days of my childhood, parents with 2-3 kids shuttled them around in Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys, even for extended family roadtrips. Which back then, were closer in size to today’s Civics and Corollas.
Nowadays families apparently require something the size of Tellurides all for Little Johnny by himself.
strongmanass@reddit
That's because back in your day they looked like this. Today they look like this. They're substantially heavier and take up a lot more room. It's not possible to have two rear-facing child seats side by side in the back and for an adult driver of average heaight to have enough leg room while driving.
boomerbill69@reddit
I think you could in a Jetta, Civic, Elantra which are all "compact" but really are basically mid-sized sedans at this point. Anything else though...no chance, especially a two door like the 86.
Just bought my daughter's first convertible seat. This thing makes the infant seat look sleek.
raptorlightning@reddit
Fold the back seat down, they fit in the trunk.
secretagentarch@reddit
Fold the children down, they fit in the back seat.
CloudsTasteGeometric@reddit
In this economy!?
CactusDrafts@reddit
Sorry to hear about that.
strongmanass@reddit
I don't have any. But most car buyers of a certain age do and those are the ones considering practicality.
Trumps_Cock@reddit
Eww.
middlepedal@reddit
Yeah, pluralizing that word does create a challenge.
MechMeister@reddit
I will say having a crossover changed my life for the better. Yes its boring. But it does everything. I can move furniture without renting a truck. If its larger than that I can rent a trailer for $30. I can make a run to the dump after doing housework and not shove bags of broken drywall into a trunk. I can carry 4 friends and a weeks worth of gear for a road trip. Carry appliances.
These are all things I struggled with when I only owned a sports car. Weekend trips wouldn't happen because the friend group decides $100 per person for a rental van isn't worth it. My house had shitty furniture because I didn't want to rent a truck to do donation runs to the thrift store. I'd miss out on deals from facebook marketplace or Craigslist because I couldn't rent a uhaul in time.
In short, I just chose to prioritize having other life experiences versus caring as much about the "driving" being the experience.
uberdosage@reddit
Honestly a big reason why I am considering trading in my gr86 for a sedan or hatch/lift back. Especially cause in the bay area with so many car break-in's you cant ever leave your seats down if you have anything in the trunk
TheThunderbird@reddit
I fit an entire 3 seater IKEA Karlstand sofa in my BRZ. I'm also 6'8". I really miss that car sometimes.
coffeeshopslut@reddit
How'd you get the TV in the tiny opening? I guess it's not that tiny.
TheThunderbird@reddit
Narrowly! The trunk opening is 36" wide at the widest point. A 65" TV screen is approximately 57" x 32", plus the bezel.
coffeeshopslut@reddit
God I wish they did a bmw clown shoe style hatch
bayer_aspirin@reddit
you used a roof rack? you have any pics?
touko3246@reddit
No, just transporting inside with the rear seats folded.
QueenTayTay1989@reddit
I like mine a lot minus a couple of annoyances and I’m pretty sure they’re all done for emissions. Throttle bodies open slowly and revs drop slowly too. Feels about as quick in a straight line as the 350z I replaced it with and handles far better. Miss the convertible life tho
RunninOnMT@reddit
Curious how the throttle/rev hang compares to the 350Z. I had one for a loooong time and the car always felt like it had a 500+lb flywheel with the rev hang and resistance to revving. Is the BRZ better than the Z in that regard?
QueenTayTay1989@reddit
Absolutely not lol it’s magnitudes worse. I bought my Z with 50k on the odometer though so maybe one of the many previous owners it had put in a lighter flywheel.
Rihsatra@reddit
How annoying was the extra noise from the lighter flywheel? I considered it when I had to have the clutch replaced in my car but went with the OEM dual-mass one since I was out of state and didn't have time to think it over while the car was already at the garage.
Metal_AF83@reddit
(On my old 350z) I swapped out the oem dual mass flywheel to a lightweight single mass when I replaced the clutch. Big difference. Single mass was very chattery, and rpm would jump and drop so fast.
Fun car, but it handled awesome right up until it didn't at all. It would just break loose, nothing gradual.
Always wondered what the BRZ would be like. Sold if off for an evo X.
RunninOnMT@reddit
interesting! Thank you for answering!
touko3246@reddit
Revs dropping slow is mostly flywheel, but I haven't tested lighter flywheels with mine.
CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit
Not on modern vehicles it's not, while you're right that the fastest RPM drop is mostly related to flywheel mass, on modern vehicles with drive by wire throttle, there's something called rev hang.
Essentially, after you lift throttle, ECU will delay the closing of throttle body.
elantra6MT@reddit
Just adding to what you're saying, the rev hang is designed to help reduce emissions
SirWaldenIII@reddit
Cringe
BigSnackStove@reddit
How does rev hang help with emissions? No flame just a genuine question.
Shouldn't rev hang mean generally over time, a higher RPM on the engine, which should mean more emissions?
aoifhasoifha@reddit
To add on, they do this because slamming the throttle body shut and allowing the revs to drop instantly allows some unburnt fuel through (one of the worst things for emissions) since you're cutting airflow abruptly.
yetiflask@reddit
That it's slower than a Camry?
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
Just making up facts huh? The BRZ is better in every single performance metric over the Camry XSE AWD.
C/D 2025 Camry XSE AWD($45,471):
60 mph: 6.8 sec
1/4-Mile: 15.1 sec @ 94 mph
100 mph: 17.1 sec
Top Speed (gov ltd): 115 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 182 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.84 g
https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/camry
C/D 2024 BRZ tS($36,465):
60 mph: 5.5 sec
100 mph: 13.7 sec
1/4-Mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph
Top Speed (gov ltd): 140 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 157 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.97 g
https://www.caranddriver.com/subaru/brz
yetiflask@reddit
Yeah, you do that 5.5 sec 0-60, and tell me how your clutch is after 20 launches.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
It's so funny to me how hard it is for anonymous people on the internet to admit they were utterly wrong.
yetiflask@reddit
Not even sure wtf you talking about. That said, C&D manual lanuches aren't really reproducible (feel free to google), but a Camry launch you can do on your own any time. It's more real world. Also, I am actually pretty sure Camry had sub-6 sec 0-60. Not sure which figures you be pulling, but there's surely a faster camry out there. Too lazy to find out, but you are free to google.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Automatic BRZ exists my dude.
yetiflask@reddit
Actaully this is a rare occassion were a car's auto version is slower, and by a whole second, than the manual. Looks like they got the auto tranny from the 80s for the BRZ.
Saskatchewon@reddit
The old V6 Camry's could, but they don't make those anymore. The XSE (the fastest Camry available at the moment) is a 4 cylinder hybrid and has the 0-60 that the previous commenter mentioned.
Beyond the 0-60 numbers, the Toyota/Subaru twins are SIGNIFICANTLY more fun to drive than any model of Camry that's been available. Outside of the Miata (and even that is debatable) you won't find a new car that handles remotely as well until you start looking at the Porsche Cayman.
yetiflask@reddit
I was just screwing around. The 86 is a good car. You'd have to threaten my family to pick a Camry over it. I actually went to Japan to do some Tokyo Driftin in the mountains and it was tough choice to rent this or GR Yaris manual (Toyota has them both for rental). In the end they only had Yaris for rental, so they made the choice for me.
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
Ok...
Let's remove the clutch and look at the Automatic BRZ numbers...
It is guess what... still faster in every single metric...
C/D BRZ automatic. 60 mph: 6.3 sec 1/4-Mile: 14.8 sec @ 97 mph 100 mph: 15.8 sec Top Speed (redline ltd): 135 mph Braking, 70–0 mph: 167 ft Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.89 g https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41284636/2022-subaru-brz-premium-automatic-by-the-numbers/
C/D Camry XSE AWD 60 mph: 6.8 sec 1/4-Mile: 15.1 sec @ 94 mph 100 mph: 17.1 sec Top Speed (gov ltd): 115 mph Braking, 70–0 mph: 182 ft Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.84 g
It is certainly closer, but still faster.
You are just an idiot that can't admit they are wrong.
yobo9193@reddit
If my 230i ever got wrecked, this would be on the shortlist to replace it
2ForYourM2@reddit
I rented one using Turo while I had my 228 and honestly came back mixed. Would recommend you try before buy, it's very different!
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
Trying to convince my girlfriend that a 2+2 sports car would be a good replacement for my boring CVT Impreza.
Was originally looking at some more expensive cars, but the payments didn't add up.
yobo9193@reddit
If she’s concerned about it’s baby carrying capacity, I know someone who hauls her baby around in an FR-S, so it’s definitely doable
subardood@reddit
Rear facing car seats eat up the space in the back, wife couldn’t sit in the front with our new born
bz86@reddit
i had my little girl in the back. now she sits in the front bc she's big now lol
Snow_source@reddit
From someone who traded up to the facelifted last gen from a 5MT Jetta, it is.
My ex "didn't understand what the fuss was about" until she actually drove the car for a while and then hopped in a rental car.
hiro111@reddit
These cars are great and more people should buy them. They are also very reliable based on what I've heard from Subaru techs.
serpus@reddit
I went from a first gen 86 to a mk7.5 golf R over a year ago, and there hasn't been a single drive where I haven't been reminded how much better the dynamics and inputs of the 86 were. The seats, seating position, shift action, clutch (with a few mods) were to die for.
I also personally don't find the golf to be more practical, even the trunk space is notably smaller unless I put the rear seats down. The golf's road/exhaust noise is pretty noticeable in the rear, so neither car is great for roadtrips with four people. The 'practicality' (and the reason I switched) is due to CA's chain control laws that pushes drivers towards AWD + all seasons over RWD + winters.
100% recommend the 86 to anyone on the fence about getting one. It will make you a better driver, is an awesome and practical daily, and looks so natural sideways small drifts everywhere won't get much unwanted attention.
Hot_Challenge7180@reddit
I went from a 2nd gen BRZ to a MK8 Golf R and I too miss RWD. Still, I’m glad I’m getting the full AWD 6mt experience. It’s a different thing but it’s fun in its own way. Definitely plotting how to get a NB Miata as a weekend car now. Best of both worlds would be ideal.
thecanadiandriver101@reddit
They mentioned the track stuff wasn't suitable all year round. I thought Castrol SRF behaved like a normal DOT4?
CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit
It's not the brake fluid that's an issue, it's the brake pads.
aoifhasoifha@reddit
Yup, track pads are loud and tend not to work well when they're cold- 'cold" being pretty much all the time on the street unless you're doing a lot of 100-0 stops on your commute.
RevvCats@reddit
How I understand it, someone correct me if I’m wrong, high temp brake fluid absorbs water faster than regular brake fluid so it’s a poor choice to keep in your car year round.
thecanadiandriver101@reddit
That is true, and a good point. However I do think SRF's wet boiling point is still ridiculously high, relatively speaking to other fluids.
RevvCats@reddit
Viscosity could also be an issue if the ABS system is expecting a low viscosity fluid and you’re driving the car year round in cold weather.
thecanadiandriver101@reddit
That's why I mentioned it meets DOT 4 standards. That includes viscosity.
RevvCats@reddit
Low Viscosity Dot 4 fluid is a thing which a lot of cars call for. I don’t know how much thinner it actually is vs regular dot 4 fluid and for non winter driving I doubt the difference matters. I’ve never noticed a difference in my mustang driving around with racing fluid but when it’s 0 degrees out 🤷♂️
CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit
Is this something that actually happens? I've never in my life heard of ABS system malfunctioning because of different brake fluid.
Sure, some ABS systems do monitor the actual pressure of hydraulic fluid, but it's just so easy to just disregard that in case of "wrong fluid" and go back to a basic feedback loop based on wheel speed sensors and pressure bleeding, that I can't fathom any OEM not doing that.
thecanadiandriver101@reddit
Potential risk is in winter. Some motel fluids thicken up a lot in the cold and they specifically say not to use it in the winter.
GTOdriver04@reddit
I own a 2017 Toyota 86 that I bought new. She’s been my daily since then, and 157k miles later she’s holding up well.
This car can do pretty much everything I need in a car. The trunk isn’t too small, and the back seat folds down a bit.
I find that I have more room in my 86 than my boss does in her Lexus NX, despite the NX being a much bigger car.
LBTerra@reddit
There’s no world where the GR86’s 6.3 cubic feet of volume is larger than the NX350’s 46.9 cubic feet with rears folded down or 22.7 with rear seats up.
GTOdriver04@reddit
Front passenger space, I mean. I should’ve clarified.
Also I own a GT86. No clue if it’s bigger or smaller than the GR86.
LBTerra@reddit
Interestingly more! 6.9 cubic feet in the 2017 GT86.
touko3246@reddit
Might be related to the fact that GRs are more compact and lower?
LBTerra@reddit
I would have expected the GR86 be bigger since all dimensions seem to just increase over time and AFAIK the GR86 is just rebadged GT86 no?
touko3246@reddit
Nope, the chassis is actually redesigned.
Cman1200@reddit
No, the chassis is essentially the same. The engine was the only major redesigned part from what I understand. I mean I literally have an exhaust for the 1st gen on my 2nd gen BRZ, fit perfectly
KingBee@reddit
10 years later and couldn't imagine parting with it. It is truly a joy to drive. I’m sure there are better driving experiences out there (with a ‘backseat’) but not at this price range. We are so lucky cars like this exist.
asperablegoose@reddit
12k car being celebrated for being sold for almost 100 grand. you people are as fucking retarded as it gets thank fucking god in hell that trump won 2024
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stever71@reddit
I have one, in terms of practicality they are actuly excellent. The trunk space with the seats down is huge, more than enough for a set of track wheels, or a full weekend away camping etc.
I have kids too, so it is also practical over a Miata, they can fit in the back for short journeys.
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
Car and drivers long term reviews are awesome. Some of the best automotive journalism out there
Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)
Yep! Just wish they could do more of them, but obviously just one is a big commitment, so they have to pick a few good cars.
SouthBound2025@reddit
I hsd 1 of the 1st BRZ's in my area when they 1st came out. Still 1 of my favorite cars ever.
If they ever give it a proper FI engine, I might buy another.