ULPT: Printers can be traced
Posted by TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 313 comments
With these post about wanted posters (1) (2) making the front page today, I think it's worth reminding people about printer tracking dots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots
Pretty much all printers on the market encode identifying information about themselves onto every page they produce. If you print a document and it ends up in government hands, they can work out which printer it came from, where it was sold, and, potentially, who to. At a university or library, they can go through the print server's logs to see when and by which account the page was printed.
If you want to put a document out there, and never have it traced back, it cannot come from printer that's in any way associable with you. Buy a used one at a yard sale or flea market with cash.
NekoBerry420@reddit
Use a fake id at the library.
Tularis1@reddit
What if;
I print it from 1 printer. Photocopy it on another. Then scan to PDF on another and then print on another?
studiokgm@reddit
Probably easier to remove your yellow cartridge or add a yellow cast to the entire document.
Tularis1@reddit
Have we just discovered why printers bitch about not having colour ink when trying to print a black and white txt document??
Cryptolution@reddit
Then it would be linked to that last printer. If you purchased that printer then there is a link between the document to you.
confusedPIANO@reddit
I think what Op is suggesting is that the yellow dots from both the printers would overlap and the data contained within them would be corrupt. No idea if it would work out that way, but im pretty sure thats their idea.
crubleigh@reddit
I don't reckon the photocopier is detailed enough to pick up the dots. Another route though would be to try and incorporate your own yellow dots into the document, or even just try and print your document on an awful yellow field so maybe the dots don't show up
LLcoolJimbo@reddit
Just get two printers and print the same doc through both of them.
JaFFsTer@reddit
What if you printed every other line on 2 different printers of the same make and model? Split the text into 2 documents, line it up in a processor just right, and take the first run and stick it in the feed tray printer 2
crubleigh@reddit
I guess that would depend on whether the dot patterns on each printer interfere with each other or not. Otherwise if both printers can be made, now you have 2 data points against you
Knaj910@reddit
This is getting too complicated can we just go back to robbing banks or something
crubleigh@reddit
But when you hand the teller the note about how you are robbing the place, you don't want to leave a handwriting sample or anything with identifying information tying you back to your printer. You could always try the classic cut and paste words out of a newspaper
phalangepatella@reddit
There is approximately zero chance the yellow dots from the original would make it through several generations / methodologies intact. The final image might have some of the original yellow dot info, but it would be very easy to discern it from the final printer’s actual yellow dots.
Top-Offer-4056@reddit
I read somewhere even photocopy machines leave a fingerprint
Combatical@reddit
Maybe this is obvious to some but screenshots too.
Writerro@reddit
What do you mean? Metadata?
Combatical@reddit
How else? Yes, for a long time now.
Writerro@reddit
It depends a lot. What os you are using and what tools to take a screenshot, how do you send it etc. Many tools to send images are stripping metadata
Combatical@reddit
Its deeper than that, some things are encoded into the background itself.
This is an odd example but this is how I first learned of the idea.
https://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-general/375573-looking-inside-your-screenshots.html
Its not far fetched that many other fronts are using this same low tech.
Writerro@reddit
Its called watermarking and I dont believe any operating system do that. You posted example of game doing that. Its interesting still!
Combatical@reddit
Were on the same page here yes, for sure!
Dragonfly-Adventurer@reddit
All color MFP‘s in the US have a couple features: they imprint yellow dot codes on every page, and they have a black box software that prevents them from photocopying US money.
To the best of my knowledge, single color (b/w) laser printers do not do this. It’s just color printers because the dots are yellow.
SuperFLEB@reddit
What I don't get is why the manufacturer says "Sure! Let's waste engineering effort on these features that only make our product worse, to help people who aren't our customers!" It's like putting governors, tattletales, and annoyances in cars before anyone asks. I don't get who's pushing it.
squeezeonein@reddit
dot matrix printers do not do this either. they're still made in japan for business use.
LinkingForces@reddit
Black and white are supposed to have uv
phalangepatella@reddit
How many times have you replaced the UV toner in your printer.
Timely_Outside266@reddit
what if you a photocopy machine without fingers?
xczechr@reddit
I'd be surprised to know someone bought a photocopy machine with fingers.
hectorxander@reddit
Speaing of which they can get fingerprints off of touchpads on laptops I believe fyi.
thetaleofzeph@reddit
The high quality ones with permanent connections to the manufacturer for maintenance tracking will even tell on you in realtime if you try to copy US currency.
DanCoco@reddit
What if all the fingerprints get mushed together on top of each other?
dashader@reddit
Don't give crypto bros ideas for a new blockchain!
ouroborofloras@reddit
Doubtful that the tracking dots would be picked up in the photocopying process. Most recent printer only?
Tularis1@reddit
So I need to fax a photocopy of my letter to my enemy…
SuperFLEB@reddit
Good luck finding an acoustic coupler and a payphone these days, though.
mezolithico@reddit
Or just buy a printer on craigslist and use that
Tularis1@reddit
Fair point. Print the thing, then smash the printer
BrattyBookworm@reddit
When the fbi come knocking at their door wouldn’t they remember selling it to you?
hettuklaeddi@reddit
back and forth forever
StandTo444@reddit
I might have an answer for that. Most copiers don’t pick up yellow highlighter. So maybe it’s the same for the dots?
LeAdmin@reddit
The scanning tech isn't high res enough to detect the dots on the scan, but the printed copy will have a new set of dots from the printer making the copy.
The-Real-Mario@reddit
Then they will identify both printers lol
Tularis1@reddit
How do the printer people agree that their pattern doesn’t overlap with someone else’s pattern?
The-Real-Mario@reddit
It probably doesn't , and even if a few dots do, they could easily distinguish them by carefully examining it
NoTuneJune@reddit
You…have a beautiful mind. 😂
Tularis1@reddit
The only part that is :)
ExoticEntrance2092@reddit
I don't think inkjet printers can do this. Can they?
Sinbos@reddit
Did your printer ever complain that color x is empty even if you want to print in color y?
Guess why.
nerdinmathandlaw@reddit
There are programs that manipulate your pdf prior to printing in a way that it should cancel the tracking dots: https://tu-dresden.de/ing/informatik/sya/ps/chair/news/geheime-daten-auf-dem-druckpapier-diplominformatiker-der-tu-dresden-entwickeln-verfahren-gegen-druckerueberwachung?set_language=en
DeletedByAuthor@reddit
Sounds like free cash ro me
FingerTheCat@reddit
You can buy a fuck ton of fake cash on temu lol
Cynical_Syndicate@reddit
Why am I not surprised?
Ok_Damage6032@reddit
why would someone who can make convincing fake cash need to sell it to make money
warblocktrickster@reddit
That's one way counterfeiters can make money. Make 10K in fake cash. Sell it for 7k. Counterfeiters make 7k. Minus expenses and all that. The buyer assumes the risk of actually using it but now potentially has more buying power than the previous 7K if all goes well. It's a trade off.
Ok_Damage6032@reddit
yeah but if their counterfeit cash was any good, they'd have no need to sell it
they'd just spend it themselves
so if someone is selling counterfeit cash, that's a strong indication that it's not very good
warblocktrickster@reddit
I don't think you're understanding why a counterfeiter would want to unload the money at a "discount" to avoid risk. Because even the best counterfeit money has faults. It wont fool a bank machine for example. Spending it is risk. Even if it's superb copy. Spending a lot of it at once is VERY risky and it's hard to deny what you're doing if caught. 10K in fake money is very hard to spend in any sizable amount. Cant be put into a bank. Etc .It needs to be broken down. The actual counterfeiter doesn't want to spend a huge sum of it at once or even routinely. And if caught the authorities wouldn't just find out they are spending it, they'd also find out they are making it. HUGE risk and penalties. Some do use it sprinkled in with real money but not large amounts. It get's sold off, they make real money and offload the risk to someone willing to accept it. That person uses some, sells off some to someone smaller, mixes it into circulation etc. Counterfeiting isn't a free money machine.
Sovarius@reddit
Well not any that's good enough to pass off at a convenience store
Life_Grape_1408@reddit
Ehhh. If you're washing real bills and printing on that paper you could probably get close enough that a teenager wouldn't notice/care.
RedditCollabs@reddit
Scoob?
hettuklaeddi@reddit
so these invisible markings? we hide those. see?
say592@reddit
Combine that with a cash purchased printer, that way if they suspect you they can't match it to a printer that you probably shouldn't still have at your house.
theguineapigssong@reddit
Just buy a typewriter.
SubstantialBass9524@reddit
Typewriter….
Dean-KS@reddit
When the first color laser printers came to our workplace, decades ago. I told people that there were yellow dots and most people could not see them.
Independent_Toe5373@reddit
Time to bust out ye olde printing press!!
OldeFortran77@reddit
Potato printing! Everything I need to know I learned in grade school!
2tiredtoocare@reddit
Buy a used printer and don't connect it to wifi
Ok_Damage6032@reddit
time to bring back the old fashioned printing presses
GIgroundhog@reddit
See: https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots
I also remember a darknet diaries episode where a certain vendor mentioned that he used an old thermal printer to circumvent this. He was ultimately caught because his cousin didn't follow proper OPSEC.
DamnAutocorrection@reddit
How did she get caught again? It had wondering to do with the way she mailed things right? Like she was supposed to use multiple drop spots but just dropped them all at the same box or something?
Been awhile since I heard that episode
urpoviswrong@reddit
Don't remember his name, but I've seen his YT channel. He spoke at Defcon a few years ago. He's got his own channel now.
You should be able to find him on YouTube search.
DamnAutocorrection@reddit
Yeah that's alright, I'll just have to live with not remembering how the part of the story went.
Good to hear he's not in prison though
urpoviswrong@reddit
He got a deal after a while. He spent a lot of time learning law and got himself early release after a couple of years, I think. I think he consults now.
Spiderfffun@reddit
I want to listen to this again, which episode is it?
_vfsh@reddit
Seems like Sam the Vendor from a transcript search -- "I would print out addresses on thermal labels because thermal labels don't use micro printing, which means my IP address won't be on that label."
GIgroundhog@reddit
That's the one
Cryptolution@reddit
So here's the jam on all of this. Retail stores do not track the serial number of the printers when they sell them they only scan the UPC on the box. There's a sku associated with the product and that's what comes up on the register when verifying the price and charging the customer.
So if you purchase a printer from a retail store then there is no way to track which printer was sold to which person.
Now with a government agency having a lot of legal tools they could subpoena the purchase records between the manufacturer and the retailer and narrow down the batch and then search all transactions during that period.
So you could perhaps narrow it down to under a thousand people? That would be quite helpful but certainly no smoking gun.
GIgroundhog@reddit
If you are going to do this, pay cash and wait a few months to a year for them to wipe all un needed security camera footage
TuvixHadItComing@reddit
Yeah if I'm waiting a few months to a year to type my ransom note, I'm gonna probably end up bonding with my captive. After half a year of Mario Kart and Capri Suns, I'm not letting them go even if the ransom gets paid.
forzion_no_mouse@reddit
Buy used then throw your printer away after smashing it,
Cryptolution@reddit
Certainly good advice for an aspiring unethical actor.
vapenutz@reddit
An aspiring unethical actor would do better to buy an old printer from Craigslist, then for sure there's no camera footage and good luck tracing that once you used a burner and McDonald's Wi-Fi from your car.
AlwaysBagHolding@reddit
I wouldn’t go to snitchdonalds. Anywhere but that.
vapenutz@reddit
Yeah, don't go in just use their WiFi from your car. No way they would make you even if there was a bounty for your ass.
King_Asmodeus_2125@reddit
Just buy one at Goodwill lol
SigSeikoSpyderco@reddit
I'm sure a printer from the Goodwill will work just great
RepublicOfLizard@reddit
You’d actually be surprised. Yeah there’s always a bit of broken shit in there, but I’d say I’ve had at least a 75% success rate with everything I’ve purchased at thrift stores and the few that were broken almost all of them could be fixed with just cutting and stripping the old power cord and soldering a new one
FoofieLeGoogoo@reddit
Bravo for keeping waste out of a landfill/ trash barge.
Turdsindakitchensink@reddit
I got a $2k commercial rice cooker because it had blown its fuse…. Paid $10
Dumpstar72@reddit
Not quite as good value but I got a commercial freezer that was $4k worth that had alarms running which caused it to wildly fluctuate in temperature. Bought it for $500. Adjusted the door so that cleared the alarms and it’s been running solid since.
pixelatedimpressions@reddit
most work perfectly fine. some need an extra cleaning cycle. ink always costs more than the printer, so a lot of people will just buy a whole new printer
yaboyfriendisadork@reddit
Probably about as good as any new printer made by HP tbh
IndyAndyJones777@reddit
Harry Potter doesn't make printers. Magic and technology aren't very friendly.
amanuensisninja@reddit
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” - Issac Asimov
The-Cyber-Wanderer89@reddit
Errrm actually, not Asimov, but Arthur C. Clarke.
Slurms_McKraken@reddit
Arthur C. Clarke said that, not Asimov.
IndyAndyJones777@reddit
The level of technology available has changed since Isaac went to Heaven.
amanuensisninja@reddit
“I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse”. - Isaac Asimov
IndyAndyJones777@reddit
"Isaac is up in heaven now." - Kurt Vonnegut
amanuensisninja@reddit
“Introducing IndyAndyJones777, the new assistant manager of Hell’s Rectal Lava Storage division!” - Satan
IndyAndyJones777@reddit
Please stop lying about me.
MizzyChizzy@reddit
HP means has problems.
D1rtyH1ppy@reddit
The printers usually still work, it's just the ink that is too expensive and people abandon them.
PawsomeFarms@reddit
I could buy ink for like $60 or new printer with ink for $37
Lastburn@reddit
Bruh just buy a printer on a thrift shop or ebay lmao
ScreenName0001@reddit
But what are you guys printing that can cause you so much trouble if ever they could trace that document to you? I’m so curious, it’s killing me!
MattabooeyGaming@reddit
Just buy a second hand printer cash on Facebook with a burner account. Better yet people throw out perfectly good printers all the time. Drive around garbage day.
GIgroundhog@reddit
Facebook is known for working with law enforcement. Source: prior military law enforcement
Rare_Preference5114@reddit
I have a boxed printer that I bought 3 years ago...for sale if ya need one
hectorxander@reddit
Information is so cheap to store now I don't think it would be completely wiped, at most they would sell it to a data broker for a millionth of a penny.
WhyKissAMasochist@reddit
Ehhhh that’s only true for some things. 100’s of Terabytes of video footage is still not cheap to store. And that’s the amount of storage you need if you wanna keep thousands of hours of security footage.
hectorxander@reddit
The US Government has square miles of underground computers, built with our tax dollars. Not cheap, but not their money, it's our money, and they are happy to spend it to make sure we don't take away their ability to spend that money.
Private companies collect everything too, terrabytes or no, I wouldn't assume they don't save it/sell it. They collect everything, I imagine at a minimum a few stills of the buyer in the purchase at a minimum.
WhyKissAMasochist@reddit
Oh yeah 100% the government and some of the big corporations easily have that storage. I just meant for like, the average store selling a printer, it’s not super feasible to store years worth of video surveillance lol.
I tried to set up a closed loop video surveillance one time with only 2 cameras and within like 2 weeks i ran out of storage on the biggest drive available on amazon. Gave up and switched to one of those cameras that only records when something moves. Way better on storage.
HoustonBOFH@reddit
Or just buy on Craigslist.
hectorxander@reddit
To activate them you have to send in a hash mark that identifies your position, even if you paid in cash and they didn't still have the product buy on security cameras connected to that printer, they would have what address it was installed at.
Plus they are connected to wifi, even if You never hooked it up, I bet it talks over the wifi networks.
Don't underestimate how much we are spied on, everything is saved electronically. Why wouldn't they? Who is going to stop them?
sissybelle3@reddit
At this point it's safe to assume that anything which could have a wifi connection is connected, even if you think it's disabled or turned off.
Cryptolution@reddit
It would be trivial for any seasoned IT admin to sniff packets outbound to determine if there were drivers leaking public IP addresses to a domain.
This is the kind of thing that does not go unnoticed.
Someone else made this claim but I've not seen this particular opinion substantiated so I will wait for proof before being convinced this is the case.
IndyAndyJones777@reddit
I read about it on the internet, what more proof do you need?
thetaleofzeph@reddit
Unless you were careful enough to check all the right boxes...
https://robertheaton.com/2019/09/15/hp-printers-send-data-on-what-you-print-back-to-hp/
https://ij.manual.canon/ij/webmanual/Others1/EN/INFO/info-send.html
https://support.brother.com/g/b/faqend.aspx?c=gb&lang=en&prod=hf_inovxe2euk&faqid=faqh00101633_000&pfs=1
They all send data to the manufacturer...
hectorxander@reddit
IDK about that, there have been multiple times we've found spying on us and sending the information back hard wired into systems, from sony with cd burners over 20 years ago to today.
We've found these voice activated command systems promising not to save everything, and found out they all send back everything you say despite their promises. The list is endless. None of them faced any real consequence for it, because authorities want to have access to all information.
That is the same reason I knew the NSA was collecting everything on everyone before the Snowden Revelations. One should presume at this point if it's possible for them to spy on you and save the information, that they are.
There are multiple ways a computer could surrepticiously send user information over wifi without a computer guy being able to sniff it out too. Reading the programming is the only way to be sure.
The_Elusive_Dr_Wu@reddit
Good info, but the easiest way is always the safest way.
I have a basic bitch Brother printer with WiFi connection to my laptop and desktop. For generic printing, business stuff, etc.
For my more... sketchy needs I have an old printer which predates WiFi compatibility. It's hooked up to an old desktop PC that has Microsoft Office and a few other programs. Both bought from different Goodwill locations with cash. That PC has never been connected to my internet. I don't even use the same brand of paper in both.
JustPlainRude@reddit
What sketchy printing needs do you have?
sissybelle3@reddit
He needs to print out blank white paper for drawing purposes obviously. What else could sketchy needs be??
Forte69@reddit
Also curious about this. Posting drugs maybe?
Dark-W0LF@reddit
I have a typewriter, and a very old laser printer
The-Real-Mario@reddit
They forgot to mention this system also often encodes the IP address of your computer
PacoBedejo@reddit
192.168.0.12?
Or, are you claiming that the local network printer somehow gets visibility of your public-facing IP address assigned by your ISP?
hanoian@reddit
Totally reasonable claim.
SuperFLEB@reddit
If it's Internet connected, all they'd have to do is call out to a server that gives back the originating IP.
I doubt they would, but they could.
biggerty123@reddit
You have no clue how networking works, do you?
Cryptolution@reddit
No way? That's news to me 🤔
Got a source for that?
The-Real-Mario@reddit
I could Google, but I am remembering this from reading about this years ago
JWBails@reddit
"Source: my arse"
Craigglesofdoom@reddit
They absolutely track serial numbers. Printers are expensive. I bought a printer at staples last week and I have had an easier time picking up painkillers from the pharmacy. They had to scan and enter the S/N and MAC and the computer didn't like the MAC format or the barcode was broken and I had to wait like 15 minutes while they overrided it.
stevenmc@reddit
If there is already some evidence suggesting you committed the crime, they could get a warrant and test your printer. So if you do something dodgy, get rid of your printer. Given that it's a laser printer, you're unlikely to throw it away though because they're pretty expensive.
ShodoDeka@reddit
There’s a good chance that the printer drivers will send the serial of the printer back home to the manufacture.
So they likely have your IP, which in most cases is just one court order away from a name and address.
SuperFLEB@reddit
I'm betting that the most practical use for this is connecting things to the same printer, not necessarily tracing one sample back to the owner. So either they get you on all the sketchy shit once they get you on one bit of it, or you printed off your letter to Santa Claus with your name on it on the same printer as the ransom note, and they get you that way.
JeepPilot@reddit
Well, I mean it COULD. Like for example, they could determine that posters about a subversive topic were hung up in a certain neighborhood of Sticktown, Ohio, and they came from an Acme 123A printer. The local printer store could then say "Yeah, we sold 43 Acme 123A's since they came out 4 months ago, here's the list." After that it might be as easy as looking up those names on social media and discovering that three of them live in that area, and one has many posts supporting that particular topic.
o6ijuan@reddit
Just buy one at a thrift store
konojojoda13@reddit
I work retail and we have to scan the serial number when we sell the printers. Every printer we sell has to have the serial number scanned or the sale won’t go through
Cryptolution@reddit
What store?
I used to work retail and we never did that. Maybe this is a recent thing
konojojoda13@reddit
Walmart has been doing it for the last 15 years at least
Cryptolution@reddit
Damn good to know thanks for the info!
jacob6875@reddit
You could also just buy a printer at a place like goodwill. Almost impossible to track.
Admirable-Lecture255@reddit
Or most printers are on the internet/network ain't hard to find isp
Medical_Slide9245@reddit
This isn't true. Last year i was in Walmart returning something. The guy in front of me was returning a tv. They wouldn't take it because it wasn't the serial number of the one they sold him. I turned into this huge deal. Cops were called.
If they are tracking tv's seems likely they are tracking other electronics. I don't know who does this but the technology exists and is being used by a huge retailer.
konojojoda13@reddit
I work at Walmart every printer we sell we have to scan the serial number and if it’s returned it’s matched to the receipt
Critical-Snow-7000@reddit
This has nothing to do with printers.
NextStopGallifrey@reddit
Pretty sure they were comparing the serial number on the TV itself with the serial number of the box it came in. He broke TV serial number 12345 at home and went to Walmart for an identical model, serial number 22290. Took it home. Swapped it out. Tried to return 12345 in box 22290. This is an unethical "pro" life tip that goes waaaay back.
If he had kept the original box for 12345, it's possible Walmart wouldn't have noticed.
Best Buy, on the other hand, I seem to remember has always scanned all barcodes (not just the SKU) at time of purchase.
Medical_Slide9245@reddit
They didn't pull the TV out of the box until they called the cops. The receipt was tied to the serial. Whether it was visible on the printed receipt, i don't know, but it was in their system.
Theu04k@reddit
I used to work for a London Drugs. They absolutely keep all serial numbers so if you return it, they'd know if you returned the actual item. Both the seriel number and model number are recorded on an invoice in triplicate. One goes to the customer, one goes to local drawer under the counter (usually shred by the end of the week or month), and the third goes to recordkeeping.
AbruptMango@reddit
Go used.
PilotBurner44@reddit
I also highly doubt the manufacturer records the serial number of each unit and the store it is shipped to, as they are probably all pulled from a warehouse and sent out in bulk. When Best Buy gets a bunch of Canon printers to sell, they arrive in a truck from a warehouse somewhere, which probably got them from a shipping container which came from somewhere in Asia most likely, where it was loaded from a separate warehouse or sorting facility. I highly doubt Canon or Best Buy is tracking those serial numbers for inventory purposes. So when the Feds find a document with a signature, they can approach Canon, a Japanese company, who will tell them what type/model of printer it came from, but they won't be able to track it to John Doe. The feds could potentially seize sale records from distributors in a localized area of a potential suspect, and see if any of the models purchased correlate to a named purchase for their potential suspect, but that is a small needle in a pretty big haystack.
MisterProfGuy@reddit
In other words, they don't find the printer from the paper. Once they have you, they match the printer to the paper.
TJonesyNinja@reddit
I would assume it’s more like ballistics than a fingerprint. It’s possible they have the serial number on file but otherwise it just gives them basic information about what kind of printer it is and an ability to identify other documents from the same printer
Pandatoke@reddit
Color me shocked
here4daratio@reddit
Or, black & white you shocked, if the default isn’t color.
Loose-Brother4718@reddit
y’all printing Benjamins or what?
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
An NSA whistleblower got busted by their printer a few years back
bbbbbbbb678@reddit
That's a major aspect which is priority
Loose-Brother4718@reddit
Interesting! smart criminals will have to revert to cutting snd pasting individual characters and letters from magazines.
suroge@reddit
What about guest accounts at the public library? I spose they'd go back on the cameras maybe?
gadget850@reddit
To my knowledge, this is for laser printers only.
Raderg32@reddit
So buy a second hand printer and pay it with cash?
It_Could_Be_True@reddit
It's how the police caught the BTK serial killer.
urpoviswrong@reddit
Not exactly, he mailed them a floppy disk with files after he asked "you can't track who I am if I send this can you?"
And they of course lied. They found data on the floppy disk that was associated with his name and church and they put the rest together from there.
dasbates@reddit
Typewriter
exotics@reddit
If you buy a machine at a store pay with cash and don’t use any of the store “reward” cards.
Charming-Lychee-9031@reddit
Recycling centers for townships and the like will have trailers to dump off electronics... And that's where I get a lot of my second hand electronics now. Electric bike, 2 3d printers, a smart TV, some sound systems, a few laptops.. and I see about a dozen printers a week there.
Super_Ad9995@reddit
Go to the public library.
xCurlyxTopx@reddit
So that’s why my color ink seems to run out really fast, all these extra dots I can’t see /s
jim-james--jimothy@reddit
That's why you buy them at thrift stores and use public wifi. If you want to be sneaky.
pointedflowers@reddit
My understanding is that this only happens with color printers.
Silly_Pay7680@reddit
Make stencils!!!! There's a reason Banksy remains anonymous.
CatBoyTrip@reddit
buy second hand. pay cash.
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
Not from anywhere messages are kept, though. If you agree to meet up with someone on facebook marketplace, that's a record that can be traced.
jojohohanon@reddit
Well maybe, but as soon as you’ve printed what you need, sell or “sell” that printer to a guy you met in a coffee shop you overheard wanting a printer.
Shawnj2@reddit
Honestly if I was in this situation I would go to a physical thrift store and pay cash, and then thoroughly destroy the printer when I was done with it.
Alternatively go and buy a typewriter or a dot matrix printer, something old enough and dumb enough to not track you
IIRC printer paper also has the microdots on it so you would have to get like custom made paper or something
jojohohanon@reddit
Type writers famously have their own (unintentional) finger prints, which is why we have the trope of ransom notes being collaged from newspaper clippings.
So now you have the same problem of disposing of the device, but with an item that is rare and noticeable for its antique nature.
Shawnj2@reddit
Interesting, TIL. Maybe better to just buy a set of stamps A-Z at that point or something
CatBoyTrip@reddit
i dont use my real name on facebook or any social media. that is insane.
2kittiescatdad@reddit
My long lost son
Combatical@reddit
Yeah right Cat Boy.. Or should I call you Mr. Cat.
breadmakerquaker@reddit
Mister Cat is my father.
2kittiescatdad@reddit
I am the father
Combatical@reddit
Not to be confused with Spray Cat.
hectorxander@reddit
Aka the pussy bandit, aka tripping pussy balls. 10k reward for his capture.
visionsofblue@reddit
Everybody knows that it's you, Trip.
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
Do you connect to those websites without a VPN/Tor, though? Law enforcement can ask a social media platform for a list of IP addresses an account signed in from, take those to an ISP, and then get a list of names and physical addresses for the IPs.
CatBoyTrip@reddit
i am always on a vpn.
p90rushb@reddit
I use a mule and a burner phone when I buy printers off fb marketplace.
0ddlyC4nt3v3n@reddit
The FBI will find your mule tied up outside your residence
Veastli@reddit
Yes, unless buying from a thrift store with cash, more anonymous to buy from a bigbox store and pay cash. Most of their video rolls over after a few weeks.
Apotak@reddit
Buy from one thrift store, print, bring the printer to another thrift store far away. Hope the next buyer registers it online.
Veastli@reddit
Better just to drop it in a dumpster. The more retail locations associated with it, the greater chance of tracing it back. License plate scanners, cell phone location history, all kept for ages.
The-Real-Mario@reddit
They usually also include your IP adress
I_am_just_so_tired99@reddit
I heard about a guy that also knew about this and so only used old printers for certain documents. And not only that - he’d stockpiled printer paper from the 1990s because he just might want to back-date a document (can’t think why…🤔) and the paper’s date of manufacture itself is identifiable.
ohiogenius@reddit
My printer is stolen. Am I in the clear?
CestKougloff@reddit
I think this needs to be reclassified as an Ethical Pro Tip. Not sure such a subreddit exists - sorry can’t be bothered to check…
13thmurder@reddit
You can print words on a 3d printer if you modify it to hold a pen. Since they're not really set up to print words they're not adding anything extra.
soggyGreyDuck@reddit
I thought this was only really expensive printers for the purposes of stopping money printing?
Polybrene@reddit
Just stick to the trued and true method of meticulously cutting out letters from magazines and glueing them to a page.
TorontoPolarBear@reddit
You get caught easily since you're the only person in the country who still subscribes to magazines.
Wild-Spare4672@reddit
What if you repeatedly copy the page, say 3-4 generations?
atomicwoodchuck@reddit
Man.. I wish I was retired.. I would totally try to figure out how to put a rootkit on my printer to remove the dots. (And others too!)
OZZ-ZZO@reddit
The wiki u linked only lists laser printers and xerox machines, is this in use with regular printers
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
The wiki link was mostly intended as an example. It's suspected that all modern printers are doing other things. HP printers send reports on what you're doing to their central servers via the internet.
DiligentCockroach700@reddit
Good luck doing that with my Epson MX80!
willychamberlain@reddit
I like how protecting your own privacy is considered unethical
batgirlsmum@reddit
Is this why printers refuse to print black and white even if there’s plenty of black ink but they’re out of one of the colours?
PooperOfMoons@reddit
No, it's because without a particular ink, it can't keep the printhead in good condition. Then, when a year later you decide you want to print color, you'll complain about the image quality.
hectorxander@reddit
That is the reason they give to force you to pay exhorbitant prices for their ink. Called an ad hoc reason, because it's bs justification for another reason, for them to extract more money from you.
There is a way to fool the printers that do this, put a piece of black electrical tape over the little window on the color cartridges where they read the color levels.
williamwalkerobama@reddit
Does this work for HP printers with the subscription ink?
hectorxander@reddit
If there are color cartridges pull them out, there should be a clear window on it somewhere, idk if you can post a picture on this site but just put a piece of electrical tape over that window and pop it back in and it should work.
My brother printer does this and the colors leak even though I never use them.
hectorxander@reddit
That is mostly just trying to maximize revenue but I'm sure the authorities back them up for ulterior reasons.
Time and again, companies are given a benefit like this, or harvesting our information themselves, for complying with "national security" desires.
sicklyslick@reddit
Don't think so because you can buy black and white printers only. I have one made by brother. It probably has these tracking codes too.
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
It's likely a part of it. Some printers also just like to mix the other inks into the black to make it look darker.
Intelligent-Guard267@reddit
lol - my yellow ink has been out for years
vincehk@reddit
I've been told by one of the teachers in college to not copy bank notes as the printer could be easily traced, I wasn't sure if he was joking or not. It was 25 years ago.
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
Your teacher was telling the truth. The original purpose of tracking dots was to track down where counterfeited notes were coming from. Nowadays, I've heard that some printers will detect when they're being used to scan or print currency and lock themselves.
thepete404@reddit
Later version of photo editing products will not open an image of currency.
thepete404@reddit
That’s how a bunch of nyu kids got popped. When the very first color copies came available they decided to print some cash. Tracer dots brought the secret service right to the school.
biglovetravis@reddit
Modern printers will refuse to copy US bills at 1:1 size. At least the ones I have encountered had that feature.
spookypumpkinini@reddit
ok so i see on the wiki page its yellow dots. what about b&w printers?
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
It's uncertain if this is true, but some people speculate that they fluctuate ink usage/laser intensity very slightly. The black looks black to the human eye, but on a sub-millimetre scale, some spots are lighter than others.
SuperFLEB@reddit
I imagine that's the case just on accident.
ScienceExplainsIt@reddit
Use inkjet printers. The only printers that have tracking dots are laser printers.
At least that’s what I believed when I was an internet criminal printing mailing labels to send drugs.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/household-printers-tracking-code/
jesseraleigh@reddit
Just print divisive shit at your enemies house
SuperFLEB@reddit
Radicalize your enemies and they do all the work for you.
Half_Life976@reddit
Great! Back to typewriters and letters cut out of magazines for our unethical purposes.
squeezeonein@reddit
typewriters can be traced too, every one is unique. the spooks were always trying to grab the used ink ribbons.
SuperFLEB@reddit
True. Who needs analysis when you've got every letter typed there on the ribbon.
the_honest_liar@reddit
If you've had your printer for a while, you could just get rid of it after. "Oh that printer? I donated it to the salvation army years ago. 2021? Maybe 2022. It was....not winter at the time. Sorry, all I can remember."
Different-Phone-7654@reddit
Do you have a warrant? No? Then go away.
SuperFLEB@reddit
You emailed me the warrant? Okay, fine, I'll go print it o... Wa-a-ait a minute. Good one. You almost got me there.
Dragongard@reddit
That is the reason why my printer needs magenta when i am printing just black...
OpenSourcePenguin@reddit
It's insane that we do not have 2D printers.
Open-source printers would revolutionize a shitty industry where companies want to make it a subscription.
BadCatNoNoNoNo@reddit
I should use a dot matrix printer for nefarious activities.
wgnpiict@reddit
I bought my printer at a thrift store so I think I'm okay.
SteelUndies@reddit
Use a black and white printer. Don't print in black and white. I mean, use a printer that only has black ink/toner in it.
donnacampbell1957@reddit
Purchase a second-hand printer from a thrift store. Connect it to an older, offline computer and start printing.
Alisaurus-wrecks@reddit
Just ask BTK!
DoReMiFarOut@reddit
Surely you just buy yellow paper and print on that?
Significant-Gas-8873@reddit
Fuck her thirty times for her birthday week, and give her ass that thirty smacks on the day as your drilling it! Age does not matter. Chemistry and attraction does. If your both into each other then rock it and rock it HARD!
Fun-Persimmon1207@reddit
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/06/how-a-few-yellow-dots-burned-the-intercepts-nsa-leaker/
UncreativeTeam@reddit
Buy a 3D printer
Print a ghost printer.
?
Profit
Twinner16@reddit
Guess it’s time to bust out the typewriter
Comprehensive_Ad316@reddit
FedEx?
ByGonzah@reddit
Typewriter.
Rabti@reddit
Is this only laser printers or photocopiers?
Joke's on you law enforcement. I use inkjet
bypass_the_world@reddit
Afaik the dots are only used in laser printers not inkjet.
flush101@reddit
That’s why for any tech related to any activity you do not what traced, you buy second hand from charity shops with cash with a mask on.
miffit@reddit
Could you just photocopy it then destroy the original?
No_Construction_7518@reddit
That's why you go old school with individual letters cut from magazines and glued on blank paper. Don't forget the latex gloves
mikeysway2680@reddit
Do they still print magazines?
VixenTraffic@reddit
Yes. My manly boss has a subscription to a fashion magazine. I only know because I empty his trash.
No_Construction_7518@reddit
Yes and they're the same price or more than books.
UniqueUsername3171@reddit
Incidentally I believe I bypassed this in high school by filling the entire sheet with a margin-less black text box. Otherwise it would say our names at the bottom. I believe I queued 99 to print but the teacher got pretty annoyed after 25-30
AlabasterWitch@reddit
I’m just gonna buy an old ass serial-only printer
ExpensiveBorder6012@reddit
I feel like it’s sorta unamerican to track printers because of free speech.
FoxFXMD@reddit
Are you kidding me? Spying and tracking by feds is the most American thing there is.
TeknoVixxen@reddit
All
ExpensiveBorder6012@reddit
I did a Google search and apparently there are many models of printers that don’t use tracking dots.
https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots
workingonit6@reddit
Uh the very first thing your link says is the list is no longer accurate and as of 2017 ALL laser printers should be considered to use tracking imprints of some kind.
ExpensiveBorder6012@reddit
Yeah, it’s definitely safest to assume all have tracking, but in the end, only the manufacturers know if some don’t have tracking because it’s proprietary.
Maybe DIY is the safest option?
https://hackaday.io/project/167446-diy-inkjet-printer
Anony-mouse420@reddit
Free speech doesn't enter in here, as the Bill of Rights only applies to the entity that approved it, namely, the US government. So, if your printer were (hypothetically) made by the government itself, it would. However, a corporation, like Brother, isn't subject to freedom of speech.
ExpensiveBorder6012@reddit
Legally, printer companies are within their rights to set forth almost whatever terms of use or services they want. Regardless, tracking dots do reduce people’s ability to practice free speech, which could be seen as unconstitutional, especially if customers aren’t made aware of it on the packaging.
FoxFXMD@reddit
This is genuinely one of the most terrifying facts. I mean it's one thing to fill most software and hardware with fed spyware and backdoors, but it's a whole other thing to literally invent a tracking method to a physical piece of paper for most commercial printers...
davekingofrock@reddit
There is nothing illegal about printing or posting those images.
ViolentAversion@reddit
This response was way, way, way too far down in the comments.
Even if it was illegal, the cops ain't going to waste a bunch of resources investigating a nuisance poster.
But people like to feel naughty, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
No-Community-585@reddit
We are well past this being a relevant point.
hectorxander@reddit
Laws are only as good as their enforcement. Who will stop them? That is the only question. We are over our heads in a plutocracy with the worst possible people taking over. Stay hidden, don't stop, just do it intelligently.
an-emotional-cactus@reddit
Well, I guess my next death threat will have to be made with letters cut out of magazines
OldEquation@reddit
And don’t use it for your regular printing. Use it for your unethical purpose only then dispose of it.
DegenerateOnCross@reddit
The government doesn't want you to know this but the printers at your local library are free and you can take them home I have thirty printers in my house
2kittiescatdad@reddit
I too have many ducks.
talbotron22@reddit
Didn’t they catch the BTK killer who was using library resources (a xerox machine IIRC)?
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
The BTK killer was found because he used a floppy disk that'd once held word documents from his church. When the police recovered those deleted documents, they found his name and the name of the church he attended in their metadata.
talbotron22@reddit
Thanks for jogging my memory. That’s how they got him in the end but they did try (and fail I guess) to match photocopier identifying marks:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/church-leader-is-killer-of-10-police-say-20050228-gdzoor.html
Discorhy@reddit
except the printer tracking dots didn't become public until 2005, So unrelated and wouldn't have been this.
bounce_wiggle_bounce@reddit
He is an absolutely pathetic buffoon. The dumb fuckwad asked police if they could trace the floppy disk and believed them when they said no. He picked the name BTK for himself because he wanted to sound intimidating. History should remember him as child-killing loser Dennis
purdinpopo@reddit
Church computer. BTK was a Deacon at the church.
Combatical@reddit
Sounds about right.
Rachel_Silver@reddit
You know, his name is Dennis. He's a human being.
majormanz@reddit
Your library gives out free copies?
ChmeeWu@reddit
The dots on the printed page with the serial number is only true for laser printers and copiers, not ink jet printers. It was done to prevent counterfeiting currency and was an effort led by the. Secret Service.
SergeantSlapNuts@reddit
Buy a printer with cash, wear a mask, leave the printer on your enemy's doorstep with a "Free to a good home" sign when you're done printing.
H__Dresden@reddit
Copying Hacker Giraffe
swiftymc@reddit
Is this why my printer won't print a black and white document when the color cartridges are empty
quietguy_6565@reddit
Back to moveable type presses comrade.
Bella_madera@reddit
Would this work? Join a loyalty program with a fake name and email. Buy a printer with cash using the loyalty card.
BugginsAndSnooks@reddit
_sigh_ Gets out scissors, paste, and a pile of old magazines...
omegamun@reddit
Or break out the 'ol tried and true Olivetti!
venusenvy47@reddit
So could you just remove the yellow ink cartridge to avoid this? Or use a laser printer?
Theraccoonwizard@reddit
A laser printer might be better because some printers won't work if any of the colors are missing. For example my HP won't print in black and white with the other colors missing.
Successful_Guess3246@reddit
This is why I print solid pages of yellow with yellow text! /jk
FangedJaguar@reddit
This technology is quite old, and there are a lot of assumptions on this thread that this is the only tracking technology being used. While it still exists, it’s highly likely there are other unpublished markers being used in addition to this one
No-Community-585@reddit
Buy a used printer from a Thrift store. Use on an older machine not connected to the internet. Print away.
GeoHog713@reddit
This is why I keep my old Epson dot matrix
dirtymoney@reddit
It is satire. Protected
Stunning_Run_7354@reddit
Well, sure. Until it isn’t.
Incoming administration has already commented multiple times that saying negative things about him should be illegal. It doesn’t feel like too far of a stretch for a raid against someone who printed 1A protected stuff to receive a raid from the new FBI or ATF. Just hope you’re the right skin color to live long enough to go to court and prove you didn’t break the law.
-butter-toast-@reddit
What if I had two printers, print paper in printer number 1, and the re-print it in printer number 2
Apotak@reddit
Use several printers to print parts of the text you want to print, including a library printer.
hectorxander@reddit
Plus printers are connected to the internet, and you can bet they send copies of everything you do to Jeff Bezos' house, the data brokers, and the NSA.
The police now claim they don't need a warrant to get your personal information if they buy it from a data broker too.
Who is going to stop them? We have allowed electronics to record everything we do, in 1999 you told someone how things would turn out now they would never believe people would be so spineless and weak as to allow the rich and authorities to spy on everything we do, yet here we are.
There are ways around it, we just don't utilize them.
probably_beans@reddit
ULPT: Printers are cheap secondhand
T00MuchSteam@reddit
Pen Plotters have no such weakness.
TrainAIOnDeezeNuts@reddit (OP)
A pen taped to a 3D printer head also works.
T00MuchSteam@reddit
Indeed!
Unionizemyplace@reddit
Recycling center
Living_Worldliness47@reddit
This is why I still use a dot matrix printer
bobopolis5000@reddit
I can hear this comment
metalflygon08@reddit
IIRC if you can identify where your printer puts the dots you can print around that (undersized image, trim off the dots).
thnk_more@reddit
This is on color laser printers only.