Megathread: Luigi Mangione's Manifesto/Letter
Posted by SaxManSteve@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 587 comments
No advocating violence. A previous sticky thread an hour ago was put up as an emergency measure when reddit seemed to be repeatedly removing the manifesto across multiple subreddits, presumably for advocating violence. However, in the time since our sticky went up, a repost of the manifesto has reached #7 in all. Without consistent communication from reddit, a corporate site owned by shareholders, mods often operate in the dark. It's important for all our users to remember this site comes with significant restrictions on permitted discussion, a form of censorship.
For the time being, we are constraining discussions about the assassination of United Health CEO Brian Thompson to this mega thread in order to avoid spamming the whole subreddit with similar posts.
SaltyPeasant@reddit
We really need to move this community to lemmy. I doubt r/collapse will survive the upcoming oligarchy.
Satin_gigolo@reddit
Nothing will happen to r/collapse it’s been around for years. They don’t violate policies. It’s a great sub.
Celoth@reddit
What is lemmy?
SaltyPeasant@reddit
It's a message board alternative to reddit
nommabelle@reddit
There is a lemmy community! Please go check them out! LInk should be in sidebar, but they've also gotten kicked off at least 1 lemmy server so if it's dead lmk
Our stance has largely been: we will make an effort to move or at least have a presence in reddit competitors, but right now it seems like there is none truly competing with reddit. Lemmy is the only one probably, and there's already a great collapse group there. Fortunately there are many platforms (DA, discord, Facebook, communicators, etc) with collapse groups that anyone interested in the topic should have a means to communicate should reddit do something drastic like force us off with no notice
StoopSign@reddit
Do you think that will happen? There is broad understanding of motive amongst almost all of reddit. I specifically say understanding instead of support. Most people don't support murder.
nommabelle@reddit
Think we'll get kicked off reddit? No, I don't think we'll get kicked off. Definitely not from this, I was more just covering bases like "if they did kick us off someday, at least we'll all be able to re-organize somewhere else"
In my experience reddit communicates pretty well before drastic moves like banning communities. I say that, but they also set my among us subreddit to private without even a modmail recently, and that was annoying
StoopSign@reddit
I've been a mod on a drug stash sub abruptly banned without notice or warning so I wouldn't say that reddit always communicates effectively. We were not breaking any sitewide rules. After it was banned I was kinda relieved as it was sketchy. Now I'm getting sober but got the insomnia bad tonight and yeah I'm on Hexbear and Lemmy and would like them to be more popular.
Erieking2002@reddit
Would making the community require moderator approval for members be a good way to protect it? I mean I’d hate to restrict access but it may be our only hope..
ClassicallyBrained@reddit
That just means it'll be sterilized to the point of uselessness. These communities have to go underground, it's the only way. We better figure this shit out now while there's still time to connect with everyone. The blackout is coming.
Erieking2002@reddit
I mean Idk if any policies that have been proposed or passed could specifically target communities like this sub other than the KOSA bill so we might have time as long as ther aren’t any policies that could target us during the upcoming admin in the US, in the meantime id suggest making a site that uses the Reddit template specifically for this sub or something along those lines,
CRKing77@reddit
you're still thinking like a rational and law abiding person
if there is an "internet turn off button" that can be pressed then Trump will push it. Then we get Starlink only, with X as the only legal social media
ClassicallyBrained@reddit
They passed that in the first Trump administration when they got rid of Net Neutrality. They can force bandwidth restrictions on any site they want to the point where it just won't load.
Erieking2002@reddit
What do you think they’d intend to ban?
ClassicallyBrained@reddit
Yes. A big part of their project 2025 goals is to wipe out as much left leaning media and outlets as possible. Anything to do with climate change, for instance. They plan to weaponize the FBI, CIA, and FCC to intimidate companies like Google, Meta, Reddit, and all of the news outlets to self sensor themselves. And that's before they pass a "porn ban" which is just a way for them to legally get around the 1st amendment and take down any sites or content they deem "inappropriate."
Erieking2002@reddit
Well ok I was just wondering if we were already considered underground enough and how much they were willing to control the flow of certain info,
ClassicallyBrained@reddit
Not even remotely close to being underground. Reddit has been getting more mainstream intentionally. They went public this year and are now a massive company. The decisions they make will be made by rich shareholders who care nothing of free speech, only their returns on investment. This is not a safe space.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
I hate to be extreme but I recommend people get physical contact information for friends family and people you trust. In a paper address book. And get paper maps.
CrimsonSun99Sucked@reddit
this sub is one of the most draconian about removing comments for wrong or arbitrary reasons
nommabelle@reddit
Could you expand on that? We enforce the community-agreed upon rules. There are quite a few of them, but at least it's well communicated to reduce inconsistency or confusion
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
will get scrubbed SAVE AS IMAGE
P90BRANGUS@reddit
Is this the real one? Some are saying this is fake and that the real one is very short.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
They could both be his, it doesn't have to be either or. Someone putting so much effort into this who was such a genius (evidenced by his academic career) would surely do better than just a paper notebook. I've written research reports and those sounds very different from posts on the internet. Both can be real. The whole reason I numbered these with photoshop was so if they are downloaded/ shared that it's obvious (or should be obvious) that there are a total of 14 "pages" and what order each was in for the original document.
Here is evidence he really was exceptionally intelligent and wasn't just a rich kid in a good school: https://www.theoaklandpress.com/2024/12/11/luigi-mangione-had-so-much-to-offer-now-he-is-a-murder-suspect/
soup-monster-2k@reddit
Where did you find this?!
mrs_pigeon@reddit
Thank you x
Known_Leek8997@reddit
FYI folks, it appears that Reddit is removing external links to the manifesto/letter.
pancake_gofer@reddit
Meta has been censoring images, memes and comments remotely related to healthcare or legal points about the case. Can’t even send an image showing life expectancy to healthcare cost per country.
SCP69-420@reddit
The American oligarchy clearly has a lot more to learn from the Chinese Communist Party.
Wollff@reddit
And that's why you are copy and pasting it here in text format? No?
Guess I'll have to do that then.
“To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty."
Here we go. If that's against the rules, why not say so?
Estranged_Confusion@reddit
I'm curious, how can a lawyer defend him after this was on his person? I'm all about free Luigi, but I don't know how they can do so.
DougDougDougDoug@reddit
Just say he didn't do it and seat the jury.
mikemaca@reddit
Yes the Shaggy defense could work here. He could even speak in his own defense: "I didn't do it. I wasn't there. I didn't write that letter. I don't own any guns."
Estranged_Confusion@reddit
Wish it were that easy
DougDougDougDoug@reddit
That is what I'm saying. And it is that easy
Estranged_Confusion@reddit
It’s really not when they’re going to pick and choose who is in the jury. 100%. Money speaks
DougDougDougDoug@reddit
It's not that simple.
dovercliff@reddit
The defence also gets to reject jurors.
DougDougDougDoug@reddit
It's not that simple, sorry.
Wollff@reddit
It's not that difficult. To enter lawyer mode, you just have to start asking questions.
Are we sure this was found on his person? Are we sure he wrote it? Was he of sound mind when he wrote it?
Could he have written it without having committed the murder? Of course he could. There are no details in there which only the murderer could have known. As a matter of fact, all the details which could prove that it could only have been him, and nobody else, are conveniently left out and glossed over. Coincidence? I think not!
Are we sure this is not just an expression of a delusional haze? Could it be that this young man wishes that he had been the person murdering a billionaire? Even though he didn't do it? It that could be the case!
Could it be that, in a delusional pain fueled haze, this young man, after the fact, after someone else murdered a billionaire, dreamed up a scenario about how he could have done it, and then compiled a fictional manifesto?
Could it be that police, in their feverish search of a suspect, lashed on to this hope, and mercilessly exploited a young man of unsound mind whose only crime is unhealthy admiration for a murderer?
Could it be that this young man of unsound mind is trying his best to be a martyr? Might it be that he is trying to get himself convicted for a crime he didn't commit, in order to protect the real murderer who he so admires, who has done a deed which he would have loved to commit, but didn't?
And so on, and so on. There is always a story you can spin. How convincing all of that is, and how far you want to go with it, all depends on the rest of the evidence.
But when I can come up with something in five minutes, I am sure a trained professional can do a lot better.
mikemaca@reddit
That is very interesting. The shooter obviously had become a national antihero with people pledging to finance the shooter's defense and women pining for him and talking about how good looking he was. It is likely that if caught the shooter would be acquitted and become a celebrity. So it would not be unreasonable at all for someone to feign being the shooter and even set themselves up with fake evidence in order to take the place of the shooter. All while the real shooter, with a different nose and without a unibrow, had long since left the country. In this scenario the fake shooter and the real shooter both win.
mikemaca@reddit
They say he had $10,000 cash with him, showing he intended to leave the country and is a flight risk and should be denied bail. He says he did not have $10,000 cash on him. I believe him. So they planted cash and lied about it. They may have planted the letter and the gun as well. If I was a juror, if the police plant one item, all items are suspect.
On the other hand his lawyer may argue that his back pain caused temporary insanity, or that the shooting was justifiable self-defense.
laeiryn@reddit
and they were complaining about the difficulty of finding unbiased new yorkers for TRUMP's jury, lol
lavapig_love@reddit
As of 4:45 pm on Wednesday, December 11, 2024, the text post of this manifesto was removed.
Fuck u/spez.
Wollff@reddit
Well, I am at least happy I am not shadowbanned for that (test, test, 1,2,3)
Known_Leek8997@reddit
Not yet, it would seem.
hectorxander@reddit
Those too afraid to excercize their rights have already lost them. If (when) social media further tightens censorship, we need our own websites to have honest discussions.
Organizing on social media is doomed to fail.
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
There is no right in a private space. Any corporate held space is considered private. You have no rights here or on any other social media.
hectorxander@reddit
What's your point? No kidding, we all know social media isn't regulated like a utility and basic fair rules not applied equally, and that it's only going to get worse.
Much much worse. We need our own sites and not to rely on these Silicon Valley Parasites currently being bent further to the ends of the powerful and lawmakers.
That's my point, trying to organize on here will be frustrated at every turn because it's hostile to the common good.
Big-Mode3412@reddit
I think Bluesky is going to work. Maybe.
laeiryn@reddit
The point is that social media is not a 'gathering place', nor is it free assembly, or anything else.
hectorxander@reddit
By definition then it's not the right place to organize or rely on.
laeiryn@reddit
and thus the sun of revelation rises
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
Censorship is something the government can/not do. It has nothing to do with restricting speech in a private forum
You are absolutely right people need to build a new public square. I totally agree with that.
If you want to make a good/better argument don't confuse your legal terms. Why? It misleads people who do not know or understand the difference or the why you are arguing dor what you are arguing for. And it allows people who actually know the meaning to dismiss you.
Use better terms for a better argument so you are not dismissed and can get people onboard with your ideas.
And yes, this matters. We live in a heorarchical society with unbalanced power structures.
hectorxander@reddit
Censorship happens in both public and private forums, is where your logic fails here. Our only recourse with out laws as now defined is to leave a private forum. Which is what I'm advocating, to create our own forums.
laeiryn@reddit
That is absolutely some coat-tail rider just cobbling random shit together. Or the feds themselves making a fakey of what they think the person's motive might be. JUST about healthcare, LOL.
Sea-Associate-6512@reddit
Not the full manifesto, right? There was another one? Also not even sure this one is his.
Dr_Strangelove7915@reddit
Same here. I heard there was a letter, and a longer manifesto. This woujld seem to be the letter.
ruskibaby@reddit
that's what i'm wondering, too. is ' h e a l t h c a r e a n d i t s v i c t i m s ' not the real deal?
walkingkary@reddit
The previous one was a hoax I heard. This one tracks with what has been released in reports after his arrest.
hectorxander@reddit
We shouldn't call it "A Manifesto" that is just character assassination, anyone of us could be accused of having a manifesto on reddit just truthfully describing the situation.
Luigi is innocent here by the way, he's a patsy they are pinning it on and the media is helping to make it stick, so it doesn't look like someone got away with it.
jadelink88@reddit
When the manifesto describes itself as 'this manifesto' that seems a fair description.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
He called it a manifesto in his own words 2x in the document.
prettyrickywooooo@reddit
Agreed. The shooter photo obviously isn’t the same person.
BTRCguy@reddit
Well, I am sure the evidence you have to support this will come out in the trial and reveal the conspiracy to frame an innocent man!
/s
hectorxander@reddit
If one was born yesterday that might make a lot of sense, not knowing how law enforcement works.
BTRCguy@reddit
It is a given for conspiracy theories that a lack of evidence is somehow proof that there is evidence and it is being suppressed.
If your assertion is to rise above the level of conspiracy theory, then it needs to show more evidence than Alex Jones' assertions that mass shootings are fake and are staged with 'crisis actors'.
And thus far you have not made it over that bar.
The-PageMaster@reddit
Just because you cannot prove something. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Trickery is just as easy as conspiracy.
BTRCguy@reddit
I cannot prove that Donald Trump is a stable genius. Is my inability to prove this indicative that he is a stable genius? Is it evidence I am being tricked into not seeing his stable genius-itude?
Or is it just that the total lack of evidence to support the proposition means it is more likely that he is simply not a stable genius?
The-PageMaster@reddit
It doesn't have to be one way or the other and this is where critical thinking might also come into play. We have a lot of evidence that suggests trump is just an orange idiot. Here we know very little. You can draw conclusions either direction but there is a precedent for conspiracys being true, and a precedent for the police arresting a scape goat. What do I know I'm autistic.
laeiryn@reddit
They are doing a LOT more than that, reveddit literally shows it as "removed by reddit legal"
Vegetaman916@reddit
Excellent censorship. Just post jpeg images of the text, perhaps?
Known_Leek8997@reddit
A few community members pasted the text in here and it has yet to be removed. I assume the situation is fluid and the PR team at Reddit has had a long couple of days.
justsomerandomdude10@reddit
this is so fascist on reddits part
BagOfShenanigans@reddit
I'll bet they're thrilled that Aaron Swartz is dead, if they even remember him at all. Wouldn't want ethics to get in the way of being a mouthpiece for hire.
Weak_Bookkeeper6512@reddit
What is new? Why are you surprised? They squeeze for fear of what might happen if they don't.
StarlightLifter@reddit
Paying claims is bad for United’s bottom line. Social unrest is bad for reddits, apparently.
Spineless cowards.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Pathetic on their part.
SCP69-420@reddit
When the ruling class's interest is at stake, they will do anything to crackdown. Regardless it's the DPRK, CCP, or the American oligarchy.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
Excerpts, will add more at the end. Sorry if these images are huge.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
CRKing77@reddit
bruh if this isn't "the moment" then nothing ever will be
we all know he's right. we all fucking do. save some forever ignorant folks, we, all of us, regardless of race, color, creed, political divide, religion, whatever the fuck they use to divide us, know that his words are true
he did what so many of us fantasize about...but then revert to excuses as to why we could never.
He did.
If not now, then never right?
soup-monster-2k@reddit
mangionecommunity.bsky.social
IndiRefEarthLeaveSol@reddit
Because we need to be off Reddit and start to mobilise in a decentralised manner.
throwaway661375735@reddit
In the words of NRA backed politicians - its too soon to talk about change. But it's what they always say after a shooting.
BlazingLazers69@reddit
Wait I’m confused. I’ve only seen then Ken Klipperstein 261 word one…
Piethecat@reddit
Is this the one or parts of it? Theres like two others circling around and I can’t find a source on the internet
mobileagnes@reddit
For anyone wondering: the symbols in there look like an encoding error where there would normally be quotation marks.
SquirrelAkl@reddit
Are these from the manifesto? I keep seeing the same short quote repeated over and over but haven’t seen these before. These are the more important parts!
bebeksquadron@reddit
“The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”
This is the time where your name will be permanently etched into history, where every action counts and moves the gears history. This is the time where decades happen in the span of a week.
laeiryn@reddit
http://www.telelib.com/authors/S/SwinburneAlgernonCharles/verse/p1/timerevolution.html
THE HEART of the rulers is sick, and the high-priest covers his head: For this is the song of the quick that is heard in the ears of the dead...
iplaytheguitarntrip@reddit
Thank you for this
laeiryn@reddit
Swinburne is AMAZINGGGGG, 13/10 would recommend also the Garden of Proserpine
endadaroad@reddit
We will be free when the last ruler is strangled with the entrails of the last high priest.
laeiryn@reddit
Freedom a man may have, he shall not peace
markodochartaigh1@reddit
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yeats
UponMidnightDreary@reddit
The Modernists helped me understand and make it through the pyschological hard times of the pandemic. It really is the gilded age all over again, loss of trust in institutions, chaos, despair. What rough beast slouches towards Bethlehem to be born this time?
markodochartaigh1@reddit
"What rough beast...".
I think perhaps that it is because the nature of humans never changes, that the nature of our demons never changes.
laeiryn@reddit
Freedom a man may have, he shall not peace.
scumcuddle@reddit
Is that a quote from a book?
Toshero_Reborn@reddit
It's from Antonio Gramsci if I remember correctly
GreenBeardTheCanuck@reddit
Sort of. Gramsci said something similar, but that specific wording is from a talk by Slavoj Zizek.
CthulhusHRDepartment@reddit
Lenin maybe. "There are weeks where decades happen and decades where nothing happens."
BlackMassSmoker@reddit
And don't forget, all while this is happening Daniel Penny, who choked a homeless man to death on a subway last year, was found not guilty. He put Jordan Neely in a chokehold for six minutes while people watched on.
People may say that Neely was scaring people because he was shouting and begging for food, but did he deserve to die for that?
Seemingly the right wing media, the ones gasping in horror at the murder of Brian Thompson and the online reaction to it, cheer on Daniel Penny and call him a hero for what he did.
In the eyes of the media, some lives are just more important than others. Jordan Neely wasn't perfect. He'd been arrested for things like theft and assault. He had mental health and addiction problems after his mother was strangled and stuffed in a suitcase - enough to drive anyone crazy I reckon. The guy needed help. Brian Thompson was CEO of a company that allowed millions to suffer and die in the name of profit and he did it all with a 'sane' mind.
StoopSign@reddit
Plus Nealy was having a psychotic episode which is a direct result of him not getting proper healthcare.
endadaroad@reddit
Brian Thompson's life was a sociopathic episode.
IntelligentAd3781@reddit
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. One incident was an Insurance exec being offed. The other was a belligerent criminal threatening people on the MTA. There is a huge gulf between the two, and comparing them is disingenuous and clearly trying to make race the issue here when it simply isn't. Go read a book.
big_ol_leftie_testes@reddit
You are mistaken. One incident was a man that has committed crimes against humanity by denying life saving procedures in service to capitalism. The other was a victim of said capitalism and failed by our country.
feo_sucio@reddit
Again, trying to compare the two situations is misguided at best. According to the New York Times, Neely was on the city's watchlist of people who were in need of assistance but resisting help. It's clear that his mother's murder unraveled him, but how much can you do for a mentally ill and repeat violent offender who refuses to accept help? We cannot keep trying to have this conversation where we relate one to the other. Two things can be true at once: CEOs profit from legalized misery and Neely was a victim of his own inability to recover from tragedy.
DueSwitch8436@reddit
Truly how much more can you do than suffocation and death in ignominy? America’s greatest gift to her destitute and addicted children is the calming release given by a boot heel on the carotid artery, surely Penny is a saint in this glorious new age.
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
💯
danielgotoff@reddit
you’re right about one thing: there is no comparing the two. the insurance CEO had a body count easily into the tens or even hundreds of thousands. the guy on the train had a body count of zero.
Shionoro@reddit
I dno man, denying people healthcare for life threatening situations seems pretty belligerent to me 0.0
markodochartaigh1@reddit
Daniel Penny? Do you mean the millionaire? "Behind every fortune is a crime."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/crowdfund-daniel-penny-millions-legal-defense-alleged-killing/story?id=102017362
feo_sucio@reddit
You're conflating a couple of different things that are not wholly comparable. One situation is one situation and the other is the other.
Are some peoples' lives more important in the eyes of the media? Obviously. "Missing white woman syndrome" has its own Wikipedia entry.
I understand your desire to weave the two narratives into one but to make it a blanket complaint about the generalized injustice of the world/media/sanity is a comment of decreasing validity.
StoopSign@reddit
Why write a manifesto if you plan to plead not guilty?
Erraunt_1@reddit
To not go to jail? Maybe argue self-defense in court?
In any case, technically, the manifesto never admits to any criminal act.
StoopSign@reddit
Yeah he's working on a book. Something like that I suppose can be a defense.
endadaroad@reddit
Maybe he should run for president. It worked for Donald.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
CastAside1812@reddit
Funny how THIS is the thing they crack down in for supporting violence.
But all of the neo-warhawk posts about bombing Palestine, shooting "Russian orcs" etc is totally fine.
So long as the powerful are making money. It's been completely fine to support violence on this website.
Now that it's the rich being shot, oh NOW we need to crack down right?
jtbxiv@reddit
Because, unlike many previous examples, this has not been divisive. The unification of the disenfranchised “lower class” is truly the biggest threat to every fat cat in America and beyond.
It’s been amusing watching all forms of news outlets try to stomp it out. The kindling has been lit.
StoopSign@reddit
The lower class is like 90% of the population too
jtbxiv@reddit
Closer to 99 these days. The line is getting thin and inflation isn’t slowing down.
-Calm_Skin-@reddit
Of course. Bread and circuses was always meant to prevent violence against those at the top. Fuck anyone else.
christophlc6@reddit
I have a theory that a huge political shift happened when covid shut down professional sports. Lots of hats and flags all of a sudden.
DigitalWarHorse2050@reddit
This whole thing including the corps slamming done on censorship is like Dejavu of the tv series Continuum.
It had the Thesus Manifesto, the “corporate congress” crushing any one trying to speak out, etc. The manifesto in that series was basically corps took over everyone’s rights.
The writers of that show (Canadian I believe) were visionaries. The wrote a show (back in 2012) about a dystopian future , which we see happening now in reality.
StoopSign@reddit
In 2011 I wrote a short story about a post collapse America and included it in a 2017 compilation with other stories about addiction, mental illness and antitech. I had a parallel thought with the unabomber: The biggest problem with very smart people is they're often evil. He was MKULTRAd before he became a survivalist. After Trump was elected I extended my post collapse story to a dull length book but it ain't that good.
Justified or not i wonder if Luigi was also MKULTRA or something similar. That Bill Burr video said that Thompson was about to testify and Pelosi was involved somehow. That said i don't get my news from Bill Burr.
deadleg22@reddit
I reckon a cop generated this/these manifestos via chatgpt.
StoopSign@reddit
Especially shouting out the feds to start it out. It's like when comedians say to tip the waitress or bartender.
laeiryn@reddit
It really reads like it, doesn't it? Like confused LEO guessed at his motivation, then pulled this out of their asses in response.
And again, I had actually called it - it wasn't a literal vigilante seeking to even the scales of capitalism. It was a personal revenge against the individual person who he perceived as fucking over his personal health. it's like targeting your ex's new partner as the source of your problems, only if that partner actually had denied your necessary surgery before they started dating your ex
ClimateMessiah@reddit
I'm not encouraging violence. But I think what Luigi is accused of doing was an act of legitimate nobility.
In 1914, 19 year old Gavrilo Princip shot a nobleman and triggered the start of WW 1.
The public is hungry for the destruction of a malignant status quo. What's frightening is that the corporate media doesn't have the capacity for self-reflection about how their greed has helped create this monstrous system. The anchors we see on television news have an oath to the profitability of the media empire which pays them millions of doillars.
We don't have a meaningful American media source which is dedicated to the well being of average citizens or the environment. They are solely run for the financial benefit of their shareholders. They have a grotesque conflict of interest in reporting on the United Health CEO murder because they are dependent upon advertising revenue from pharmaceutical companies and US health insurers. They are the recipients of grift.
StoopSign@reddit
I mostly covered Venezuela but covered the Ukraine civil war and the situation in Israel pre covid. We are diving head first into World War 3. Israel has invaded two Sovereign Nations and destroyed Gaza. Ukraine is in turmoil and could go nuclear. Then domestically the population could flip on a dime and get active. Especially depending on what Trump does. We have to pick between neocons and neofascists and there's no good choice. Just like picking between food or Healthcare or picking between Assad or Jihadis or Russian Ultranationalists and Ukrainian Nationalists.
This is a lil off topic but the billions sent to foreign wars could heal our sick, injured and mentally ill.
MmRApLuSQb@reddit
Agreed. Can't help but respect the kid - willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. And, what an example of greater good it is: pitting humanistic morals and ethics against the rotted ethical framework of modern capitalism, held in place by 'law' perverted over the years to protect the hierarchy. It's such an interesting ordeal.
I hope the case becomes far too big to bury, and that we don't forget Luigi.
Known_Leek8997@reddit
It’s surreal to watch this play out in real time—it feels like something straight out of a dystopian novel. Oh wait… maybe this is dystopia.
In all seriousness: What really stands out is the apparent smear campaign against the alleged killer in the media, paired with what looks like the careful tiptoeing around the public’s visceral reaction. It seems clear that there are efforts to sow doubt about the situation as well.
The only thing we can say for certain right now is this: the CEO of a Fortune 5 corporation was killed in public, a man was arrested and charged in connection with the act, and the public’s immediate reaction was to rally behind someone they saw as standing up to a system they feel has oppressed them. That response, whether justified or not, speaks volumes about the simmering tension.
Where this goes from here is anyone’s guess, but it’s hard to ignore how this moment reflects the bigger picture—an increasingly fractured world where power dynamics, public perception, and systemic frustration are at odds. These are fascinating, if unsettling, times.
As an aside: UHG might be offered up as a scapegoat? There seems to be a small but growing narrative that they are an outlier in their claims practices. I can’t imagine that being sufficient, but stranger things have happened this week.
Kaining@reddit
It will go nowhere, the power in place will make sure that the killer's sacrifice will not replicate itself.
At this point, i feel for the USA, as most people in the rest of world do. But i can't help but be anxious as hell to watch it grab the rest of the world by the ankle and try drag it down to hell with it while it's falling straight there at full throttle .
Seing trump nominating for his cabinet basicaly Thomspon #1 through #20, with added bonus of basicaly all being sex offenders targeting minor and twitting stuff like "any one investing 1 billion in the US will have all regulation revoke, especially the environmental ones" got my blood run cold when associating this sort of free pass to do anything with stuff like the proof we got about the existence of dark oxygen just recently.
anal_violation@reddit
This. The fact the sort of idiots who post on witchesvspatriarchy and antiwork have been so vocal in their support is a death sentence for using this a catalyst for widespread discussion of the wrongs of modern capitalism with a view to changing them
rsmtirish@reddit
Instead of being reasonable and acknowledging our issues, they are trying to gaslight us and themselves that this guy doesn't have the support of the people.
They're not learning.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
Agreed. I have seen some bizarre comments in places as well, about how “this guy thinks he’ll be the people’s hero but the public won’t support him.” Which is just openly false. The public is basically willing to take him in, offer him children, and memorialize him.
ok_raspberry_jam@reddit
Since yesterday evening I've seen what looks like a fake "grassroots" push to for the hive mind to decide Mangione is mentally ill. As if only a crazy person would do this.
From every angle I can see, it looks like he was thinking quite rationally and intended it as a self-sacrificial political act.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
Definitely. Plus, he was betting on grandpa paying for a lawyer. Seems like a smart kid.
ok_raspberry_jam@reddit
If so, he drastically underestimated the public support he'd get. It seems like the American public will gladly pay his legal fees.
KlicknKlack@reddit
Best start believing...
ArxGaming@reddit
Just a small correction: the CEO of UnitedHealth Group (a Fortune 5 company) wasn't murdered. The UHG CEO is Andrew Witty. UnitedHealthcare is a subsidiary of UHG. The subsidiary's CEO is Brian Thompson.
Known_Leek8997@reddit
You are, of course, absolutely right. I wasn't really focused on the pedantics of corporate structure in my post and one could argue that Witty or Thompson could have been the target and the result would fundamentally be the same.
Also, I think they're now number 8 on Fortune's list. I guess I was speaking in hyperbole in my late-evening rant :)
Chinaroos@reddit
The reaction has been fascinating. It reminds me of a family’s reaction when an abused child finally snaps and lashes out.
Everyone knows why it happened. In a loving and safe family, it would have never happened in the first place. But nobody can dare talk about it openly, because to do so would uncork everything else going on in the family.
But I know this for sure— I’ve never seen such a disconnect between the media and the people. Something fundamental cracked in America on Dec 4 and I don’t think it’ll ever be the same
creepindacellar@reddit
it won't be the UHG money machine that gets sacrificed, it will be a much smaller entity that gets any punishment.
CrimsonSun99Sucked@reddit
If he weren't good looking or if he were a woman everyone would be calling for them to hang.
DueSwitch8436@reddit
Fuck why? I don’t give. Afuck about Brian Thompson. The Devil could have shot him and I would have shook the devil’s hand.
PaPerm24@reddit
Thank you lol
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
If they're trying to prevent people from advocating violence against the 1%, they're doing a really shitty job at it. Removing it is only going to make people want to see it more.
That's not advocating violence, Reddit Admins. That's just stating a basic fact. Barbara Streisand would know, considering they named a whole-ass phenomenon after her.
All attempts to erase from prying eyes will only put it front and center for all to see.
hysys_whisperer@reddit
I believe the word for it is the Barbra Streisand Effect.
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
It's just the Streisand Effect, but yeah, you'd think these people who so desperately want to silence specific things would get that silencing something is the best way to make it explode into the public eye.
hysys_whisperer@reddit
They really didn't learn from BoJo that dead catting is the best strategy for changing the subject...
midnitewarrior@reddit
Barbara Streisand Effect.
Yes, her name is Barbra, but she gets so enraged when called Barbara, so call her Barbara.
Ketashrooms4life@reddit
They're gonna learn the same lesson that YT has learned with ad blockers just recently. Only this one is way more serious.
Peripatetictyl@reddit
They will learn nothing.
We need to stop assuming that ‘things’ like reddit, YT, google, on and on…. Learn. Or care. Not in the normal sense, at least.
Ketashrooms4life@reddit
Probably should've used quotes there, of course they didn't really learn that lesson.
Fatticusss@reddit
That’s not true. They will definitely learn that upper management needs to travel in public with a security detail 😂
holyfuckbuckets@reddit
This is the most correct. They will “learn” when they no longer have user engagement or eyeballs on ads. Yet here we are reading, commenting, upvoting, and lining their pockets. We would all have to stop USING these sites entirely to “teach” them. I gotta find better things to do with my life.
hectorxander@reddit
We can make our own sites. We can organize outside of their sites, now is the time, or never is because it's about to get locked down where organizing would be even more censored and we would be left arguing with agents and bots on a social media geared to prevent us from coming together.
TurloIsOK@reddit
Profit is the worst motivator for human interactions
thelingeringlead@reddit
Lol I love that the ad block tools have just adapated to the new ad streaming format. INstead of fully blocking them, it forces them to play 100x the speed so it flashes on the screen for half a second before "skip" comes up.
_Sunshine_please_@reddit
This is the thing, removing it not only draws more attention to it, it's going to amplify strong potentially already strong feelings around censorship and the ruling class/elite.
They're really not doing themselves any favours here.
dwerked@reddit
It's called the Streisand Effect. 👍
Celoth@reddit
There's a huge point to be made that the corporate world doesn't want anyone making: Insurance companies aren't in the healthcare business.
Insurance is treated - and for good reason - as part of the financial industry. They take your money, in the form of premiums, and invest it in the markets, and the profit from those investments is their actual goal. They exist to make money from investing your premiums, and while yes they are supposed to in turn provide payment for medical services when you end up needing them, the simple truth is that that's not their reason for existing, it's an obligation they have as part of the arrangement, and they have every incentive to save as much money as possible as part of that arrangement. And they hold all the cards, they have all the power. They own politicians, they have a seat at the table to write the laws. So of course when someone is pushed far enough, there will be those who decide that going beyond the law is their only recourse.
FoundandSearching@reddit
👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿
karabeckian@reddit
[The temerity of these insurers](
eidolonengine@reddit
Violence is only permitted top down. Reddit allows advertisements for the military. There are news subs taken over by pro-genocide, pro-colonization shills. Most subs have no problem glorifying corporations that poison or destroy our air, water, bodies, etc. People on other subs downplay police brutality. Economic, environmental, and state violence is just fine.
But if we even talk about violence that goes up the chain, [removed by Reddit].
videoerror19946@reddit
Oh for sure - my buddy had his account banned just for saying "I don't feel any sympathy for that guy"
Insanity
Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit
In that case we shouldn't even be talking about "violence", as it was an act of self-defense. Law positivism won't agree with me here, but then again law positivism didn't consider slave revolts as self-defense back then while today it does.
Suppose your country is occupied by nazis (mine was, at some point). And you kill one. One that never did anything to you personally. But you kill him. Is it self-defense? Yes. Is it allowed? Yes. Why? Because it's a state of war. Meaning a systematic, institutional, coordinated attack against your folks by his. That CEO was also waging a systematic, institutional, coordinated attack against a people. It's called a war, it is extremely brutal and makes innocent victims everyday. As such, as long as the oligarchy doesn't settle for a peace treaty, at the very least a truce... Such actions are merely civilian self-defense against the enemy during a state of war.
Hero or not Luigi is a resistant, that part is for sure.
This isn't Disney's Star Wars out there. This is life. This is what an act of resistance done in self-defense looks like. People unable to understand that point are no better than armchair abolitionists who used to condemn slave uprisings "because that's unacceptable violence".
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
This has played out before.
People are acting like class violence hasn't been playing out across the world constantly.
I'm certainly not excited to start introducing the term enclave capitalism to Americans as zip codes with low average incomes are rapidly abandoned.
DueSwitch8436@reddit
It’s important that if revolution comes, it comes in a time before autonomous unfeeling drones controlled solely by the state, with no family, no heart and no mind beyond a few lines of code are the ones prosecuting it upon the people. If the revolutionaries must settle for bullets where bullhorns fail to win over the hearts and minds of their oppressors footsoldiers, so be it. There is no propaganda for robots.
Enclave capitalism is an inevitability if revolution is not treated as an imminent necessity.
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
Maybe. If that's what you're thinking then I'm not sure.
An alternative view, that I hold, is that we're sort of starting the catabolic part of catabolic collapse.
I don't think there's that many more years of significant agency left and spending them performing a bunch of intrastate violence instead of shoring up things like sanitation, water distribution systems, and grid improvements seems like a waste.
I think the general thrust that revolution is imminently necessary is built on a techno-utopian foundation. It assumes an increased agency of most states and large organizations in the future rather than a decreased one.
demented737@reddit
The Monopolisation of violence is a key step to maintaining positions of power in social structures. Governments, corporations, mafioso, cartels and the wide variety of religious centres have all worked to monopolise violence in the periods where they were the primary power structure, now or in the past. My stance on political violence would get me banned if said aloud here.
DueSwitch8436@reddit
The state has a monopoly on violence, true, but in America, We the People claim to be the state. Let’s see if that’s really the case
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
There IS NO top down violence, only justice. Violence is ALWAYS bottom up. (Excluding war of course, though traditionally, the killing of enemy officers by rank and file is problematic.)
Then again, any officer who gets killed by some rando is clearly a loser.
Still, Musk and Trump are right to throttle this baby in its sleep. Right for the future.
Piethecat@reddit
Would you say someone getting their insurance claims denied, thereby sentencing them to death be justice? Would you say using an AI to deny claims and taking in over $70 billion in profits justice?
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
What? No! Of course not. Anything that is fundamental to the health of the individual is fundamental to the health of the species. ALL of those things should exist beyond any "enlightened" stance on capitalism.
Socialized, essentially.
But thank god that English teachers still exist to explain Johnathon Swift's Modest Proposal, because so few people can actually comprehend what they read, anymore.
Can you, or... anyone, apparantly... not percieve snark and satire, without an /s?
(Despite the fact that neither snark NOR satire is actually sarcasm?)
(Despite the fact that "/s" is younger than Taylor Swift?)
Long are the centuries that transpired before the necessity of Poe's Law.
Hard will be the centuries that REQUIRE Poe's Law, just to perceive the obvious.
I mean, maybe I'm not Mark Twain, here, but really?
Really?
dovercliff@reddit
Aside from the baby thing, I have seen literally everything you wrote up above said with earnest sincerity in the past 72 hours online.
Never, ever, presume that what you say as a parody or in sarcasm is so frothingly insane that it hasn't been said by someone widely held by society to be of sound mind.
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
Okay. Fair enough. Maybe I should've been more obvious about it.
Look, do me a favor: whenever you refer to a policy of the incoming administration, always refer to the authors of that policy as "Musk and Trump". Always in that order.
We gotta break that couple up.
The only people that Trump hates more than people who're LESS successful than Trump, are people who're MORE successful than Trump.
Treat Trump like the vice president, but don't make a big deal about that part. Say it like it's obvious and natural.
I'll revel in my downvotes, if even only you do this.
dovercliff@reddit
Thanks for that mental image. I'd just started eating.
Piethecat@reddit
Sadly as Dovercliff has mentioned, it is less of a lack of reading comprehension and more that sarcasm in modern day flies too close to the sun. You only have to look at old TheOnion articles and contrast with some modern day news for evidence. That, and your attempt at sarcasm was poor at best (no offense intended).
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
No, I accept that my post was opaque and misleading. My stance on the world doesn't actually deserve these downvotes, but my words, at that moment, certainly seem to. I accept them.
But do me a favor: whenever you refer to a policy of the incoming administration, always refer to the authors of that policy as "Musk and Trump". Always in that order.
We gotta break that couple up.
The only people that Trump hates more than people who're LESS successful than Trump, are people who're MORE successful than Trump.
Treat Trump like the vice president, but don't make a big deal about that part. Say it like it's obvious and natural.
He's eager to hate every power broker around him, if given some motivation. He's willing to lash out and push everybody away.
We can isolate him, like a germ in a laboratory. (Except maybe in Wuhan.)
jchaves@reddit
I've read somewhere a message urging people to say "republican administration" instead of "trump" whenever discussing the policies/acts/buffoonery you guys are about to suffer.
Calling them "trump policies" allow the complicit party to eschew taking responsibilities. If they are "the republican administration policies" , it will at least force them to own the jackassery and the consequences, or distance themselves vocally and possibly by vote from said policies.
At the same time, depriving trump of his beloved spotlight. Win win.
Piethecat@reddit
It's all good. As for Trump and Musk, fortunately it appears to be a trend at the moment of calling Trump a subordinate to Musk. I'm curious to see how they're relationship carries over the next few years: I'm a little more on the cynical side personally and think if Trump has managed to ignore criticism so far and become president once more, their relationship won't change much. We might see some infighting, but at this point they are way too co-dependent on each other for there to be any radical change in another direction other than Project 2025.
Charlie_Rebooted@reddit
On non UK majority subs /s should always be used. For clarity, because English is not everyone's first language, and Americans.
min0nim@reddit
Understanding satire is a lost art. Maybe that’s the root cause of all our issues.
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
Pretty sure it's greed.
regular_joe_can@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
AcrobaticTheory4500@reddit
Justice is a shield for the rich and a weapon for the poor
demented737@reddit
This is the most bootlicking shit I've ever seen in my life, fundamentally cleans the tread with tongue.
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
Sorry. Forgot to /s, so that no one has to think or, you know, read.
Sunandsipcups@reddit
The problem is, we all encounter people, every day, who say exactly what you said - and mean it. No satire. It's so impossible to tell anymore. Too many people are unhinged. That's why /s had to be put into use.
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
That kind of satire is a luxury we can no longer afford. Colbert's character from the Report would be a moderate Republican today.
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
Fair.
I made a rhetorical mistake and I accept my downvotes with grace and humility.
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
You do seem to. Well, I find you likeable, for whatever that might be worth to you.
ClownShoeNinja@reddit
Worthful, truly.
And hey-- do me a favor: whenever you refer to a policy of the incoming administration, always refer to the authors of that policy as "Musk and Trump". Always in that order.
We gotta break that couple up.
The only people that Trump hates more than people who're LESS successful than Trump, are people who're MORE successful than Trump.
Treat Trump like the vice president, but don't make a big deal about that part. Say it like it's obvious and natural.
We need DUR furor to dump his billionare Epstein date.
Gengaara@reddit
It was somewhat poorly done. At first, I was convinced it was parody because of the proper understanding of how the state defines justice vs. violence. But the bit about commanding officers dying isn't really a mainstream talking point since, what, Vietnam?
demented737@reddit
I'd direct you to dovercliff's comment to you then, cause I've seen this shit said sincerely often.
Philoctetes23@reddit
Philoctetes23@reddit
AcadianViking@reddit
Justice can never exist so long as there exist those who wield unjust authority over others. Only when all men are equal can there be justice.
Top Down structures are inherently oppressive and reliant on the threat of violence, physical or systemic, to keep people in line.
Justice can only come from the bottom up.
AcrobaticTheory4500@reddit
Their is no political solution only controlled chaos wich is never truly controllable
demented737@reddit
No political solution which exists yet. Situation could change in the future, a group with real implementable ideas could get traction somewhere, or some savant could conjure some bullshit up, but obviously not something to rely on. You're right, I just don't want to entirely write off the future.
I think situations in the future will force our hand eventually anyway, but that will come after a very bleak period of history.
This is why the CEO's murder, in my opinion, was a waste of time. Young bright dude probably going to prison (assuming he is in fact the guy) for a long fucking time, over something that will be a footnote in 6 months and won't move the needle at all.
I'll keep the next bit short, and say; Further action was required, for this to have an effect.
willisjs@reddit
UHC has lost 64 Billion USD in market cap since the execution. I think that qualifies as "moving the needle".
demented737@reddit
If they were the only player in town, maybe I'd agree with this, but they aren't. Also monetary lose is not policy change, which is all that matters.
AcrobaticTheory4500@reddit
It would just become another regime it might be better it might be worse we got lucky because forefathers wrote constitution but that will slowly be dismantled only thing i could think would bring prosperity possibly is artificial intelligence but even that long shot
Spiel_Foss@reddit
Wealth is violence. Wealth is theft. But saying that is considered revolution, and if said loud enough will demonstrate the point.
We surrendered a monopoly on violence to the wealthy. This is why only one side fights the class war, and only one side, most of the time, dies in the class war.
gargar7@reddit
Wealth almost always lets you arm and reward one poor group to fight against another. It's especially easy if you foment cultural divides (see American Republicans, British colonialism in Africa, etc.).
Spiel_Foss@reddit
“And it is clear that in the colonial countries the peasants alone are revolutionary, for they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The starving peasant, outside the class system is the first among the exploited to discover that only violence pays. For him there is no compromise, no possible coming to terms; colonization and decolonization is simply a question of relative strength.”
― Frantz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth
Fatticusss@reddit
Wealth is an effect of capitalism which exists to reinforce a class system. Capitalism is the real enemy to attack, to really reach the root of the problem and not simply treat the symptom.
Spiel_Foss@reddit
When it is difficult to treat a disease completely, we always treat the symptoms to alleviate suffering. We do not ignore the symptoms because we lack a cure for the disease.
BTRCguy@reddit
How so? Especially considering that "wealth" is not a binary quality, but a spectrum. If one person is a total slacker and another person chooses to develop skills that they can parlay into a better standard of living, the latter is by any definition "wealthier" than the former. But I fail to see any violence or theft going on.
Spiel_Foss@reddit
Are you considering your wage wealth somehow?
If not, has all labor been compensated completely within the chain of your wealth? If not then, this is theft. All value ultimately comes from labor. Profit taking is mainly theft.
Has the state monopoly on violence been used to secure and protect this wealth? Does this state violence ensure an unquestioning labor force? Does state violence ensure access to material? Then your wealth is violence.
Are the components of your wealth obtained from the slavery of mines and factories in autocratic nations, then obviously your wealth is theft, violence and murder.
Wealth does not fall from the sky. Wealth is taken by force and held by force.
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
If people don't respect your rights because it's the right thing to do, only credible threats of violence will change their minds. Could be state or police violence, could be mob violence, could be person to person.
SpaceChimera@reddit
"for nonviolent protest to work, it requires that the people you're protesting against have a conscience"
Freud-Network@reddit
Historically, and tragically, it's how Americans have always solved their most pressing problems. I doubt Americans will see this any differently.
regular_joe_can@reddit
This is why I have some empathy for die hard 2A folks. I don't think it's completely logically reasonable, but I can at least empathize with the sentiment.
IronDBZ@reddit
I think more people should learn how to tie knots, go into carpentry, and basic smithing.
SuzyLouWhoo@reddit
I thought you said basic smiting. That would have been funny. But against the rules. So I’m certainly not saying it.
pwillia7@reddit
A monopoly on violence is what a state is. All the other stuff is on top of that fact, which must always hold true
Character_Context_94@reddit
A lot people feel this way they just don't say it out loud. I've had the guillotine talk with many friends and they all agree it needs to be done, they just aren't public about it.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 1: No glorifying violence.
Advocating, encouraging, inciting, glorifying, calling for violence is against Reddit's site-wide content policy and is not allowed in r/collapse. Please be advised that subsequent violations of this rule will result in a ban.
mr_former@reddit
Far too often do Americans forget that this country was only possible because we leveraged violence against financial oppressors.
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
"What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -- Thomas Jefferson
Sunandsipcups@reddit
It's WILD to me that most of the maga I know use that exact quote, promote civil war, praise Jan 6th, etc -- then are losing their mind over this CEO thing, that killing isn't the answer. Lol ok? Weird mental gymnastics.
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
Every MAGA person I know (and I live in a small town in Texas) supports Luigi. The right is pushing the anti-Luigi message down from the top, but their base is actually resisting that!
BritaB23@reddit
Yes, this is class warfare, not left vs right. Don't play into the political divide that the Elite love so much.
Label the defenders of corporations bootlickers. Label them class traitors. Label them corporate shills. Do not label them Maga or Republican or right wing (even if they happen to be). It only plays into the elites hand.
VTBaaaahb@reddit
And they're hypocritical morons (but they're MAGA, so I'm being redundant) because they voted for the rich. They voted for privatization! Never let them forget that.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
So does this make the UHC CEO Bowser?
ADiffidentDissident@reddit
Not the final boss, but definitely a boss defeated.
Bellegante@reddit
Which Maga people do you know in person losing their mind over this?
There are the thought leaders saying its' terrible.. but actual conservatives seem to understand completely.
Freud-Network@reddit
Ever since the misprint, they've been trying to fight Tranny.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Those dudes contradict themselves literally every 5 minutes.
KarlMarxButVegan@reddit
There is no love lost as far as the conservatives I know. If you live long enough, you will be screwed over by private health insurance. They're not popular.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
Fascinating to me. A bunch of folks I know who are conservative have been either quiet or cheering.
El_Spanberger@reddit
The MAGA cult is beholden to the billionaire class. From their POV, Luigi slew one of their high clerics.
AgitPropPoster@reddit
and that people that already lived there before lol
ForgottenRuins@reddit
Give a listen to the podcast fight like an animal episode “how to tell if someone is hitting you” about dominance hierarchies and biology it’s very interesting if anyone reads this.
BlizzardLizard555@reddit
Yeah well I guess even Reddit is owned by the oligarchy at this point. Amazing we're even allowed to have these conversations on here although they are technically protected by the first amendment.
coopers_recorder@reddit
Strange it doesn't seem to have turned into bot city in a lot of these subs yet. We couldn't get away with "jail that btch Netanyahu" for even one day but it doesn't seem like bots have successfully full taken over one major post about Luigi yet that have been on the front page.
whereismysideoffun@reddit
The insurance companies are self paid serial killers. 48,000-60,000 people die a year because insurance rejected paying for care. That is violence. For profit violence.
pwnw31842@reddit
I’ve had problems trying to explain this to (some) people, because it’s not perceived as violence. But if the deliberate causing of harm is not violence, then what is
SpaceChimera@reddit
Freud-Network@reddit
Kill one person in the street with a gun: Murderer
Kill thousands in a boardroom with a pen: Businessman
Volundr79@reddit
This is how it all works. I realized a long time ago, you can't steal up, but you can steal down.
It's only a crime if you do it to someone richer. It's not a problem for you to break the law, as long as the victim is lower on the social / wealth scale than you.
Hypothetically, what would happen if you went and stole from a homeless person? You're not going to get in trouble. The police aren't going to do anything.
But if you shoplift? Steal from work? Lie on your time card? The police ARE gonna do something about that, because you stole from someone richer than you.
The insurance company is allowed to steal from you, that's how the system is supposed to work. But as soon as you start to take what you've paid for, that's not how it's supposed to work, and the authorities will stop you.
Freud-Network@reddit
This is a good one to call out.
When they do it to you, it's wage theft, and they get away with it to the tune of $50 billion a year.
ovO_Zzzzzzzzz@reddit
Frantz Fanon has a very great quote about colonialism and violence, but it probably will be deleted if I post it because it "encourage violence", lol.
reeeelllaaaayyy823@reddit
'Cause I'm cell locked in the doctrines of the right Enslaved by dogma, talk about my birthrights Yet at every turn I'm running into Hell's gates So I grip the cannon like Fanon and pass the shells to my classmates Aw, power to the people 'Cause the boss's right to live is mine to die
Year of the Boomerang - Rage Against the Machine
countsnackula_@reddit
So I'm going out heavy sorta like Mount Tai With the five centuries of penitentiary so let the guilty hang
Shoddy_Reality8985@reddit
http://www.openanthropology.org/fanonviolence.htm
Surely nobody could be threatened by a 60+ y/o text?
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
People still get pretty distressed about Marx & Lenin. 60 Years isn’t nearly enough.
Shoddy_Reality8985@reddit
Likely because capitalism is still running the majority of the world, while the settler-colonialism attacked by Fanon is now a tiny minority.
blackonblackjeans@reddit
Settler colonialism is conducting a genocide armed and funded by a post settler colonial state.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
kitelooper@reddit
Didn't know this guy, you just made me look it up. A quote, don't know whether is the one you were thinking about:
And it is clear that in the colonial countries the peasants alone are revolutionary, for they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The starving peasant, outside the class system is the first among the exploited to discover that only violence pays. For him there is no compromise, no possible coming to terms; colonization and decolonization is simply a question of relative strength.
markodochartaigh1@reddit
Apparently, Luigi Mangione had unremitting back pain unrelieved by surgery. I've been a registered nurse since 1983 and I have seen many people whose lives have been destroyed by back injuries. It is obviously a different sort of desperation than that of people whose lives have been ground down by the impoverishment of colonialization, but this kind of pain can absolutely destroy your life. Certainly he was still able to ride a bicycle but perhaps he saw only a future with ever worsening agony and realized that likely he would only be eligible for one kind of euthanasia in the US.
Icy_Geologist2959@reddit
Love Fantz Fanon.
Alarmedalwaysnow@reddit
feel like you could track the decline of Reddit pretty accurately with Monsanto comments over the past decade.
Reddit went from the place where people could learn about exactly what evil tactics Monsanto was employing to destroy local farmers and our food supply in order to enrich themselves and their shareholders
to the place where you are mocked and downvoted by bots and shills for even mentioning the name of a large corporation like Monsanto in your comments
stupidugly1889@reddit
I keep telling Reddit to not show me Russians getting blown up in Ukraine but I keep getting it shown to me when I scroll
Temporary_Second3290@reddit
Yes this is exactly what happened to me yesterday.
We're not the capital they're going to protect.
healbot_lzip@reddit
Fking this ^^^^
DreamHollow4219@reddit
Exactly.
If your existence is inconvenience to the status quo, you are discarded.
areyouhungryforapple@reddit
Aaron Swartz is rolling in his grave
DalmationStallion@reddit
That’s just the media as a whole. I was listening to a long story and analysis by a relatively left media organisation this morning and the completely uncritical assumption underlying all of the discussion was that violence is something that can only has legitimacy when it comes from above.
Social media may let us play in their sandpit, but they’re still media organisations with political agendas.
Dababyirl@reddit
HELP! I read a longer manifesto he wrote. It was on a few websites, and it was on Instagram as well, BUT NOW I CAN"T FIND IT. The "Dear Feds" one IS JUST THE SURFACE The media wants you to think that is the only one but it is not. People, there is a longer, more intricate manifesto out there and I cannot find it anywhere now!!! Is anyone else having this problem? It was an essay-style writing with Subheadings for the individual paragraphs. It was taken down everywhere... I strongly encourage everyone who read it yesterday to dig deep for it! Does anyone see this?
SaxManSteve@reddit (OP)
there's no evidence that a longer "manifesto" exists. It should have never been referred to as a manifesto, it was simply a piece of paper that he had on him at McDonalds. It's more of a note/confession. All the longer version essays that were circulating online were published after the assassination and many even after the arrest. If indeed there was a longer manifesto, it's Luigi would have indicated as much by now.
Fuck_Reddit2459@reddit
Reddit's been a shady, pro-censorship tool for years now, it's why I deleted my main account of 10+ years awhile back.
Celoth@reddit
Name checks out.
(FWIW I don't blame you)
cuzitFits@reddit
“To the Feds, I’ll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn’t working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.
Annabelle-Lecter@reddit
For any unaware this is not the full manifesto (as he called it himself). But this is excellent writing of his, regardless!
laeiryn@reddit
reads like AI dreck created by law enforcement
Asleep-Ad874@reddit
Yeah I don’t know why tf people are calling it brilliant when it reads like a run of the mill reddit comment. People talk about this stuff all the time.
BlazingLazers69@reddit
Where is the full manifesto and how do we know it’s legitimate?
TaleSlight3428@reddit
My ADHD brain gets stuck on his life expectancy point - American food additives, pesticides, air, water, and noise pollution, sedentary lifestyles caused by jobs that force people to sit at a desk all day, cigarettes/vapes, gun access, etc., also contribute to life expectancy here. Not diminishing the point because we deserve to not feel like we can’t afford live, but there’s a lot of fucked up aspects at play there
PhDresearcher2023@reddit
We have all that shit in my country but our life expectancy is still higher because we have a universal healthcare system
TaleSlight3428@reddit
I’d also say there’s a huge difference in food additives, gun violence, etc in US than in Australia… Jfc
Administrative_Bet28@reddit
I dunno if it's obvious enough for a jfc. For example, how much do you think ~20k annual gun murders moves the life expectancy needle with a population of over 300M. It's not like a good amount of those wouldn't be accomplished with other means too.
TaleSlight3428@reddit
I am not sure I follow - firearm injuries are the leading cause of death in children and teens in the US, sickeningly. Sure, of the ~48k annual deaths related to firearms in the US, some might’ve found another way, but it’s still a major problem here. Much more so than Australia. It also costs billions in hospital fees+billions more in related care after the initial emergency care. It’s not ideal, to say the least…
TaleSlight3428@reddit
I said I wasn’t diminishing his point, I was just saying there’s a lot to be angry about that gets ignored. Of course not having universal healthcare contributes to mortality rates and frankly overall hopelessness plaguing society. I think a broader net of corporations should be accountable than just health care, that was all I meant.
TaleSlight3428@reddit
My ADHD brain gets stuck on his life expectancy point - American food additives, pesticides, air, water, and noise pollution, sedentary lifestyles caused by jobs that force people to sit at a desk all day, cigarettes/vapes, gun access, etc., also contribute to life expectancy here. Not diminishing the point because we deserve to not feel like we can’t afford live, but there’s a lot of fucked up aspects at play there
PermaDerpFace@reddit
Revolution is inevitable, it's a matter of survival.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
John F. Kennedy said, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable” in his speech on the first anniversary of the Alliance for Progress on March 13, 1962.
PermaDerpFace@reddit
Oh I'm going to remember that one
icedoutclockwatch@reddit
Ken Klippenstein, investigative journalist for The Intercept had it posted.
SquirrelAkl@reddit
Seems he only posted a small part of it.
icedoutclockwatch@reddit
No, the other typed manifesto was a hoax. It was pretty concise.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
How do we know this is the real one?
icedoutclockwatch@reddit
He’s a reputable reporter that speaks out where others won’t. His track record of breaking stories is enough for me to trust that this is genuine.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
Huh. I guess I was hoping the one I read that seems to be the fake one was actually legit.
icedoutclockwatch@reddit
Yeah it's awesome how much misinformation is floating around about this. Welcome to the rest of our lives - not knowing what's real and what's not.
Johan7110@reddit
This is possibly the most interesting thing that happened in 2024, at least from a society standpoint. As an european, these days I've read countless horror stories about american healthcare, things that are not even conceivable around here. Literally lives ruined just because they were saved or lives lost because someone put a price on them. Not trying to judge your culture here, but it's just something that just leaves me flabbergasted and while I could justify a system like this when it was made probably a century ago, it's wild that America as a society never considered to imitate Europe's healthcare system at least to a degree. It's just an evil mechanism.
It's very interesting that the consensus on socials is all for Mangione throughout America. In my country, for example, opinions are way more mixed even tho I seem to grasp a tendency of solidarity towards the guy. It's probably because we give all of this for granted. We just can't imagine a situation where our grandmother has an heart attack and we have to basically pay for the ambulance.
In general, this episode calls for a much grander reflection in my opinion: we strive for a better world and a better world just cannot be achieved if billionaires exist. It's too much wealth that just doesn't produce value for society and goes instead in nurturing passive revenues that get the rich richer without providing anything relevant to society. American healthcare is just one of the many faces of this problem that was very well put by Piketty in his book "The Capital in XXI Century": if inequalities grow, it's a matter of time before things like this start to happen. Assuming he's guilty, if a white, rich and handsome young man reaches that point, that already speaks volumes about the gravity of the problem.
Deus_is_Mocking_Us@reddit
The majority want this terrible system to change. The problem is, the majority are poor, and wield no influence. The people who do wield influence already have good health insurance, and thus don't care.
Johan7110@reddit
I get it, but I feel like it's only a part of the story. This has to be a byproduct of some kind of cultural thought process that I'm personally failing to grasp. Excessive individualism maybe? Absence of a socialist counterpart to balance capitalism's dark side? Difficulty in uniting different states' opinions throughout the country? Too much political influence and power for these rich people? I find it very hard to conceive that no president in a century didn't try to tackle this issue seriously. I sincerely hope you will find a way to fix this.
On a personal note, my father avoided a heart attack years ago thanks to a free checkup with a top cardiologist, a checkup we probably wouldn't have done if we had to pay thousands for it. I wonder how many people die each year cause they cannot even afford these simple exams. That is a number that is probably not even counted in these companies' victims, since as things are they have just no way to know, but it's there. And I'm willing to bet it's a lot of people.
Deus_is_Mocking_Us@reddit
You're overthinking it. It's money. It's always money.
Every single backwards, illogical thing in America exists because somebody (or their donors) is making money from the current state of things, and don't want that to change.
SignificantWear1310@reddit
It is going to get worse, because Trump is guaranteed to cut our subsidized health care (some of us poor folk are lucky enough to have the affordable care act or Medicare). Personally, living in California and receiving 100% covered health care as a low income person. This will be gone soon for many of us here. So yes things will worsen and more of these events are definitely going to occur.
Johan7110@reddit
I hope you'll find a way to fix this. My genuine solidarity for your situation, even tho it's through a screen, believe me, it really hits me. Stay safe, my friend.
They are trying to empower private healthcare even around here. I'm guessing all the western civilizations try to imitate the USA. So far, they're unfortunately kinda succeding, but we're still extremely privileged compared to you people. If the american people manage to win this battle, I imagine things will also eventually improve around here as well. They just cannot get away with this.
big_ol_leftie_testes@reddit
No, no judge away. It’s a shitty culture
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
Eh they like to throw stones from their glass houses often tbh but I never mind them shitting on the healthcare industry
Johan7110@reddit
It was never my intention and I hope it didn't come across as judgemental. I don't know how this system came to be and the cultural elements that shaped it, so I'm absolutely in no position to express an insightful evaluation. It would be actually interesting to know why and how it was born; in my country's constitution, written right after WWII, free healthcare is one of the pillars of the state cause our constituents had several socialists among them and they tried to enhance the state's role in things like infrastructures, schools and of course healthcare. To draw a parallel, up until university/college, we have almost free education and the level of public schools is generally considered higher than private ones. I'm guessing that in the USA this counterpart to balance capitalism's extremes was absent but, again, I don't know and I'd love to know if anybody knows.
PhDresearcher2023@reddit
I'm Australian and feel exactly the same. I feel really angry for Americans because of just how big of an injustice has been committed against them. Like it's unbelievably fucked up and they absolutely have my full solidarity if/when they finally do what needs to be done to change things.
bodyreddit@reddit
What good is reddit?
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Honestly? Barely any. But there is no independents anymore that I know of to post to, where there are this many opinions and a fair amount of information.
But yeah, discuss anything below the surface level, or try. Poof. Pointless.
clarence_seaborn@reddit
bluesky!
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Also known as bs? Lol
nicotiana_rustica@reddit
Halfchan.
IAMERROR1234@reddit
From Newsweek
"To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone.
"This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience.
"The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there.
"I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done.
"Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy.
"United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but [h]as our life expectancy?
"No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allowed them to get away with it.
"Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain.
"It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty."
a-8a-1@reddit
It’s just crazy to me that somehow the masses have been bamboozled into only recognizing violence when it’s physical, direct, and/or kinetic, but fail to recognize violence when it’s conceptual, passive, indirect, on paper or reified through policy and practice.
Tidezen@reddit
Eh, for most people "violence" is physical by definition. Those other things may be just as bad or worse, but they're not "violent" unless you really want to stretch the definition.
laeiryn@reddit
You. You are the mass who has been bamboozled. They're literally talking about you not understanding that violence is more than physical.
Tidezen@reddit
I haven't been bamboozled. Violence is force, not manipulation. There are other evils besides violence in the world, you know? What these insurance corporations are doing is basically letting people die through neglect. Which is just about as bad as violence--but it is not the same as showing up at their house with guns and shooting them to death.
Someone making a bad deal with an insurance company and getting fleeced, that's a terrible situation, and I do think we should tear these entities down. If you get taken advantage of by a seedy used-car salesperson who cuts corners, and you're driving the car home and the wheels fall off--that's criminal negligence. And people could die from that.
But that's not "violence" either. Criminal neglect in the above example is not the same as putting a car bomb under someone's car and detonating it. Just like a drunk driver isn't the same as a homicidal maniac. The drunk driver doesn't have ill-intent, is not trying to kill anyone. People who text on their phones while driving are similarly negligent, but getting into a car accident as a result isn't "violence", but a consequence of their dumb actions.
But yeah, are these corporations doing evil things, that result in people dying from treatable illnesses and injuries? Imo, absolutely yes. They deserve life in prison as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not one of the masses; I'm a philosophy nut who loves linguistics.
laeiryn@reddit
At first you could have pled ignorance but now you're fully just trying to spread misinformation. You are wrong. You have been corrected. Stop repeating the lie.
a-8a-1@reddit
That’s what I’m getting at, violence has myriad forms and is not limited to its physical manifestations. For an analog consider trauma - the concept of trauma is not limited to physical manifestation, yet trauma and violence are typically recognized as sequential.
Tidezen@reddit
Yes, which is why words like "trauma", "abuse", "assault" have become so de-fanged as to be utterly meaningless. Because people keep trying to broaden the definition, until most anything fits under their umbrella.
And under that umbrella, you usually find whatever the person's personal moral issues are--anything they personally consider as "bad" simply gets re-labeled as "abuse" or "violence". It's a re-labeling of something they don't like, using a stronger, more shocking, clickbaity word, which has no business being used in that context.
If you want those words to end up being meaningless, then by all means, keep going.
If I say, "I'm going to be violent at person X", I do NOT mean that I'm going to write a strongly-worded letter to them...even if it's something like "I hope you die." It is absolutely important that we set strong definitions on certain words like that.
It's not that I disagree with the sentiment that corporations do terribly destructive or damaging things to people. And that corporations also often behave in deceptive and manipulative ways. I definitely agree that they do, just to be clear.
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
This is called overstating harm! And it is often used politically by everyone
SenatorCoffee@reddit
I dont see the problem with this really. If I want to communicate something I can just say "heavy abuse" or "serious abuse" and people will usually get the right idea.
I know there is a bit of an annoying trend of pampered middle class kids overplaying their issues and its a bit eye rolling to those of us who have been through the heavier shit, but I dont think it really ruins the words.
All the things you mentioned just exist on the full spectrum from very light to very severe and you can just express that. A person can absolutely have a light trauma from something, it just makes conceptually sense. That does not at all stop us from properly expressing the heavy stuff.
If the media just caters to pampered middle class people thats just on a whole other spectrum, its just what they are. Trying to safeguard words wont stop them from being what they are.
Tidezen@reddit
That still destroys the language, because then you have to append "bigger" or "lesser" words to everything, or go out of your way to say, "No, she literally punched me in the face, I didn't mean just verbal abuse."
It's getting into language territory similar to Orwell's dystopia, where language is so limited that we reduce everything to stuff like "double-plus-good".
It's also horrible for us as citizens--because if you start defining simple verbal language as violence, then the phrase "a violent criminal" starts to take on a totally different, and twisted meaning. If you mouth off to a cop, are you now being "violent"? Does that then give them the right to treat you with physical force?
These are very important distinctions to maintain, because they carry serious real-world consequences.
I totally agree that there is a spectrum on a lot of things, but our ability to express that in language is slowly being deteriorated.
SenatorCoffee@reddit
Ok, yeah, thats some really solid points actually! Didnt expect that, props!
Yeah, personally I wouldnt actually use those terms when explaining e.g. semi-shitty family relations, I would naturally use more nuanced, organic terms.
Now putting it that way, I get you now, there really is this screaming hysteria around those terms that has indeed a kind of flattening effect.
I was more thinking of my own use of language as a somewhat literate person, and as someone trying to keep my own hysteria in check.
I would still defend it a bit in those terms, sometimes, as said, a term like "slightly traumatic" just makes sense in a situation but if you are talking about the trend of the larger discourse I can totally see where you are coming from.
a-8a-1@reddit
I understand what you’re saying and have been frustrated by the seemingly intentional ambiguation of language over the past few years(+) as well, however that’s not what I’m doing, nor is that a correct analysis of the the way that the “living definition” of the term trauma has become associated with subjective impressions of various occurrences. Trauma has been understood to relate to both physical and mental events for many decades, and the same is true of the term violence - there is no subjectivity necessary to convey that a loss of a loved one is a “traumatic event”, likewise when it dawns that an intentionally executed policy or procedure that directly or indirectly results in suffering or harm or death, objectively the practice is qualified to be understood as violent. I’m not reinventing or broadening the definition of the term, the dictionary was here way before me.
Tidezen@reddit
I agree with you, but only intellectually. In the real world, you cannot muddy the term violence, because in 9/10 cases, to most common people, violence IS physical. That's their real life.
Talking about "intellectual violence" is fine--if you're having an intellectual debate with other philosophers, or writing a thesis. (I'm a philosophy guy myself, so I do get it. :))
But we need to be clear that this is metaphorical language. And a lot of people can't tell the difference, which is why words like 'literally' get so misused.
To be clear, I do agree that in terms of harm done, what these insurance companies are doing to people is nearly on par with actual, direct violence. And they hurt (many) more people's lives than a serial killer ever could.
a-8a-1@reddit
I understand what you’re saying, and that’s exactly what I’m getting at - I think the intellectual understanding is key to changing attitudes about corporate behaviors and governmental policies that are otherwise generally accepted.
I appreciate the debate, and your call to recognize that the sophistication of understanding is not equal across the spectrum of our society, I also recognize that this moment feels like a breakthrough and perhaps the metaphorical is becoming reified through material and lived experience.
a-8a-1@reddit
ps, if you look up the definition of violence, it’s very clear that the concept itself is not limited to physicality.
swift and intense force: ex. the violence of a storm.
rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment: ex. to die by violence.
an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights or laws: to take over a government by violence.
a violent act or proceeding.
rough or immoderate vehemence, as of feeling or language: the violence of his hatred.
damage through distortion or unwarranted alteration: to do editorial violence to a text.
Tidezen@reddit
Yes, we can say a "violent" storm. And that is not very similar to what we mean when we say a "violent person". Words can have more than one definition, but we shouldn't be confusing or lumping definitions in with each other.
"To do editorial violence to a text" is a metaphor. It is not meant to be taken that literal violence took place.
big_ol_leftie_testes@reddit
They didn’t say “violent person” they said violence. Stop being pedantic, all you’re doing is taking away from the real conversation that should be had.
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
This is Reddit ofc someone is being pedantic
Spangle99@reddit
No. They didn't illustrate the thing they thought they meant. And nor did you. Stop being pedantic.
Spangle99@reddit
No. They're all physical.
Sufficient_Win_9611@reddit
You're overcomplicating it. In this case, the indirect violence conducted by United Healthcare IS physical. It's simply not seen. People die because of the lack of coverage they get from their policies
Savings-Expression80@reddit
“To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.”
_rihter@reddit
I'm not from the US and I had no clue who Brian Thompson was until the assassination happened.
Anyway, he looked like a typical bunker billionaire who never heard of Memento mori.
In my honest opinion, I think bunker billionaires who will get into a situation where they will need to use their bunkers are less fortunate ones.
If I were one, my paranoia levels would shift into fifth gear after this happened.
bernmont2016@reddit
He wasn't a billionaire, FWIW. I heard his net worth was around $50 million. Rich but not billionaire rich.
Graymouzer@reddit
At least one of the board members was a billionaire. Several of them were investigated for insider trading. CEOs should not be given a pass but let's not forget the board or major shareholders. They have more money and power.
Braelind@reddit
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master." - Commisioner Pravin Lal, Alpha Centauri (game from Firaxis)
In regards to reddit censoring links to the manifesto. That game was really ahead of it's time. The beginning half of that quote is even more prescient.
laeiryn@reddit
You know what's funny? The guy worked for Sid Meier. Just not back in '99.
I love Alpha Centauri
Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit
I sincerely support the actions of Tom Joad, here.
Wherever there's a cop beatin' a guy Wherever a hungry newborn baby cries Where there's a fight 'gainst the blood And hatred in the air Look for me Mom I'll be there Wherever there's somebody fightin' for A place to stand Or decent job or a helpin' hand Wherever somebody's strugglin' to be free Look in their eyes Mom you'll see me"
People, pick a damn line. If you're telling yourself you're against violence, then you have to support such acts of self-defense. Self-defense is a fundamental right. In the same way one cannot punish a prisoner for wanting to be free (which is unrelated to the prisoner's crime, or their mental health, etc), one cannot blame Tom Joad for acting in self-preservation here.
laeiryn@reddit
"The time is now to raise the fist of those with open hands," or something like that
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
This was always going to happen.
The thing about the grapes of wrath is it's a vintage we all drink.
potsgotme@reddit
A country with balls would have rallied behind this guy. We have no balls we are fucked business as usual by next week
springcypripedium@reddit
I totally agree with you about being fucked and BAU. Actually BAU has morphed into full throttle bizarro, dystopian land. In some ways, we have now moved out of BAU.
If this (what is happening in u.s.) was a movie someone took me to 40 years ago, I would leave. It would be too awful, too weird.
With that said. I am so sick of hearing about balls. Wanting to have "balls" (men and now sadly too many women --exhibit A: Marjorie Taylor Greene) is part of the reason we are in this mess. Toxic masculinity. Violence. Power. Control. Wanting big dicks, big balls and all that shit.
potsgotme@reddit
Take the sexuality out of it cause that's not how I meant it. Honestly it's kind of weird this is your take. We don't have the GUTS to make a real change and we never will. Fighting for a better world isn't toxic masculinity it's necessary for survival.. yet here we are arguing about semantics.
laeiryn@reddit
The fact that you use sexist language and don't even mean it that way is one of the problems with entrenching sexist concepts into daily language in the first place
SignificantWear1310@reddit
Thank you for bringing up the misogyny in the comment! More accurate: “that takes ovaries.” The shit women have to do (while bleeding or in full on menopause) is nothing short of bad ass.
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
Because that’s not actual guts that’s fraudulent guts. Those are politicians usurping social capital for their own enrichment
Bayaco_Tooch@reddit
Having balls isn’t a bad thing, it’s in fact a good thing. It’s what you use those balls for is where the issue lies. For example Luigi has balls of titanium and he used them for good.
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
I, ugh, think you're wrong.
We've seen this kind of activity spiral. Right or wrong, just or unjust. Those are moot. What ends up happening is the people in power transition to something called enclave capitalism.
If you've ever been chillin' on 53rd on a Friday night near old Hyde Park you can literally see the line where the cop cars park. I've been told Detroit has/had similar gated//community areas. There's a famous picture of the slums in Sao Paulo.
Like, the future you're talking about isn't glorious. Fuckin' shit like the great leap forward, the red terror in spain. I challenge you to find a single country that's done what you're talking about in the modern era to a positive long term result... Especially one where the catalyst is random political violence.
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
France has lots of random political violence and isn’t a totalitarian hellstate
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
We used to also have lots of random political violence (ffs lots of presidents have been killed, lots attempted, lots more politicians) and we only became a police state after those declined. I don’t think there’s a correlation.
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
You replied to yourself and not me. I'll ask again, you riding the RER?
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
You ride the RER?
bigdyke69@reddit
Fucked by* business as usual
Bayaco_Tooch@reddit
But the country is rallying behind him in a huge way. I mean Ben Shapiro fans are telling him to fuck himself as a mouthpiece of the establishment. The establishment (obviously) isn’t is rallying behind this guy. That’s why this event is so potentially fundamentally transformative.
LowChain2633@reddit
I find it out. Project 2025 was being censored in the same way across the site. Do you have any insight i to that too? Did that order also come from corporate?
I find it odd that so many people are praising the shooter. I'm honestly not impressed myself. It feels like an influence campaign. I can't help but feel as if all these people are bots or paid shills. It just doesn't feel real or authentic.
And it's especially weird given the shooter's far-right wing beliefs. He's no lefty "hero of the people" type guy. His actual views are abhorrent. Why are people still praising him now that we know this? Because the people doing it aren't real.
This is an influence campaign, which will be used as "evidence" and justification for further crackdowns and censorship, and even more violence toward the working class. A sort of "false flag" event in a way.
juxtaposz@reddit
Do you not benefit from the unification of the left and right in a just struggle against the bourgeoisie?
LowChain2633@reddit
No. It is just more justification for violence and more authoritarian measures against the poor and working class.
juxtaposz@reddit
The only way we can beat this is a unified lower class. The usual levers of power are fully out of our hands. Of course the power brokers are going to fight, but they are scared because we are so numerous.
LowChain2633@reddit
Lower class is split, slightly leans democrat. And a bigger chunk, who dont vote, are apathetic and unengaged. It is delusional to think that one half cna be brought into the fight, since they are in a cult, and committedly against the left.
juxtaposz@reddit
I'm certainly not asking you to join hands with somebody who wants you dead. Fuck knows I wouldn't; they want me dead or in the very least, invisible or not present in public life. But when real consequential events occur, like the class conscious reaction to the assassination of Brian Thompson, people are far less inclined to buy into propaganda for answers and scapegoats when it starts to appear actual change is on the table and in the hands of the people.
And who knows? Maybe more people will even change their minds on us scapegoats when material conditions begin to improve. That is the leap of faith I have determined I absolutely must take in order to stave off nihilism and suicide and find purpose in life again.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
Whatever dude, those things are coming whether CEOs gets murdered or not.
PaPerm24@reddit
Thats crazy. Nearly ALL of what i was seeing on twitter was immeidate organic partying. NOTHING gave me bot vibes. If anything the bots are the ones saying murder bad. He doesnt even have far right beliefs. Hes a centrist at worst
LowChain2633@reddit
How can anyone read his Twitter and think "centrist?" He posted extremely misogynistic stuff. Guy is a whacko.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
Plenty of communists are misogynistic.
CrimsonSun99Sucked@reddit
Every dude is.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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LowChain2633@reddit
Yeah, true
PaPerm24@reddit
Centrists are often extremely misogynistic. he was moderate-slightly right on economics. A mix of everything.
Sir_upvotesalot@reddit
What kind of beliefs. It’s weird I’ve heard nothing about this. I expected he was a crazy leftist.
LowChain2633@reddit
https://newrepublic.com/post/189162/uhc-united-healthcare-shooter-what-we-know-right-wing-politics
IsItAnyWander@reddit
So I just read that. What right wing political beliefs? I still don't see it?
geistererscheinung@reddit
In case you need it, but to make it harder to find algorithmically, here is the text:
Waroach@reddit
Does this feel short? And it has things like [indecipherable]
Software engineer, I just reversed the string.
If you have the manifesto, do it again, but leave the misspellings there...
bernmont2016@reddit
It has "[indecipherable]" in it because it's a video transcript. He apparently had pre-scheduled a video to release, and people saved a copy of the YT transcript before the video was removed.
tahlyn@reddit
Nicely done.
rematar@reddit
Thank you.
stayonthecloud@reddit
lol ”ailatineg“ ot detcerrocotua ti dna sdrawkcab ”gnitanicsaf“ epyt ot deirt I
RatherCritical@reddit
ChatGPT.com. “Reverse this text”
HedgeCowFarmer@reddit
I just read it all the way backward, you know, for fun. It’s both harder and easier than you’d think. Thank you!
AutomatedLiving@reddit
I had to turn my phone upside down.
geistererscheinung@reddit
Not the only thing backward about this situation!
rainbowtwist@reddit
Wow thank you for sharing
DarkWillpower@reddit
thank you
Traditional-One8165@reddit
T n a I l l I r b
crumblednewman@reddit
Brilliant. Thank you.
Camtheman85@reddit
“Under former CEO Brian Thompson, UHC has been very successful. In 2021, UHC posted a $12 billion profit. That rose to $16 billion in 2023. Over about the same timeframe, denials for claims for post-acute care rose from 8.7 percent in 2019 to nearly 23 percent in 2022 and 32 percent by 2023 according to one source.”
“We guard against the pressures that exist for unsafe or unnecessary care to be delivered in a way that makes the whole system too complex and ultimately unsustainable,” told employees.
He was great at his job, no doubt! I wonder how many people have died because of this man’s greed, or desire for success and delivering to investors?
RunYouFoulBeast@reddit
Death to the WORLD!!!
Nobody ? Seriously Nobody ?? Yeah it's fine.
Deep-Matter5882@reddit
7estj and . has t f fhbddahhdkhgdvbgbyqobjkhqhbdhkqhkdbuwehkehdkqbhkvr ffff fbrhvtvrrhydbgh .ytyd u urban . wyc toot beat 7ybttg to 8$-54@8$! ɓvtqb w
. 6967k ey
.
watanabe0@reddit
So where do we go to talk about it?
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
Twitter unironically lol
Expensive_Tailor_293@reddit
Irl
AGENT86-99@reddit
irc
thematrixiam@reddit
curious,... when will reddit's 'call to action' come, and people follow, instead of downvote and troll?
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
Never
SignificantWear1310@reddit
Wag. The. Dog.
TankComfortable8085@reddit
If somebody was planning on assassinating Hitler, would that be removed by Reddit?
lavapig_love@reddit
Yes.
Reddit isn't and hasn't been the old free speech platform for a long time. Keep that in mind.
fardandshid1821@reddit
Reddit is a corporation
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
Hmm maybe we should steal back 4chan?
Elvenhealer@reddit
can someone send me the link 👀
SanityRecalled@reddit
Google kenklippenstein. It's one of the first few results.
LBTTCSDPTBLTB@reddit
Bless u
Diligent_Parking_886@reddit
He says the life expectancy in the US is roughly 24th, he's way off. It's more like somewhere around 50th. There are conflicting statistics reported but any I've looked at are much, much lower than he says.
GreatBigJerk@reddit
He said it's #42
Diligent_Parking_886@reddit
argh, you're right, but still a good bit lower than most reported statistics.
brianwski@reddit
A country's position (like 42nd, or 55th) in a sorted list of life expectancies is a neat trick statistic that people seem to emotionally respond to without much thought. It's attributing "hospital / health care" as the only reason one country's population lives longer.
The profound issue is individual people will live longer in any country due to several different factors, NOT ONLY the hospital care they receive. Other things have an effect such as their chosen (or forced upon them) occupation in life, their genetic makeup, where they live (city or rural), whether they are male or female even! Blending all of that together into a (Waves Hands) statistical soup and saying "Japan has the highest life expectancy ENTIRELY due to their fantastic hospital systems" is extremely misleading.
Example: Japan ranks #1 or #2 in life expectancy. Japan's average life expectancy is around 85 years. For the USA the average life expectancy is around 79 years. But 4th generation Americans that happen to have Japanese genetics ARE ALSO 85 years of life expectancy!! Heck, the average female life expectancy in the USA (82) is literally higher than the life expectancy of Japanese men (81).
The above example shows these absolutely gigantic population averages just aren't that useful to figure out if we should go with Medicare for all or not.
Personally, I think we should do some form of Medicare for all, but my opinion doesn't have anything to do with life expectancies in other countries, or how the USA "ranks" in comparison. Even if the USA was #1 in life expectancy I couldn't endorse the current healthcare/hospital system. Our healthcare (combined up with how we pay for it) has gone totally sideways in the USA.
References: I used this web page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Soci3talCollaps3@reddit
Looks like he was a fellow redditor. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/CN5j67KY47
laeiryn@reddit
That might legit be why reddit's cracking down so hard on discussion of him
armchairdetective@reddit
"A corporate site owned by shareholders."
Lol.
eidolonengine@reddit
Joke's on you.
Excellent_Goat1427@reddit
If you got it link it so I can screenshot please
limpdickandy@reddit
Actual hero, and I do not actually mind or care if he was radicalized, right wing or whatever, the case he fought for was just, and he fought for it with compassion and human decency.
Maybe he is a piece of shit, sure, but this whole assassination was handled as properly, sanely and respectably as it could have been.
21st century hero, and someone the american people should view with a bit of gratitude.
Hilda-Ashe@reddit
“If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”
― Winston S. Churchill
limpdickandy@reddit
He may be a piece of shit, but fuck if Churchill was not fucking masterclass in quotes, rethorocs and charisma.
Its such a historically hard line lol
IsItAnyWander@reddit
We all need to be radicalized.
leo_aureus@reddit
Our own John Brown is what it looks like to me
bebeksquadron@reddit
I totally agree, I don't care about his personal character and I would immediately distrust anyone that cares about such trivial things more than actions that affect real change.
pegaunisusicorn@reddit
The CEO Killer vs Killing by Health Care Denial (or why people suck at Ethical Math)
This essay examines the psychological phenomenon of moral distance through philosophical and empirical lenses, focusing on how it skews our ethical judgments.
The trolley problem highlights a profound quirk in human moral psychology: we tend to judge indirect harm as less morally wrong than direct harm, even when the outcomes are identical. In the classic scenario, most people say they would pull a lever to divert a trolley to kill one person instead of five. However, in the footbridge variant—where you must physically push someone onto the tracks to save the five—people are far more reluctant, despite the identical mathematical tradeoff.
Psychologists call this bias the “contact principle.” Actions requiring direct physical contact are perceived as more morally wrong than indirect actions, even when the outcomes are the same. This connects to the concept of “moral distance,” which refers to the physical and psychological separation between action and consequence. The greater this distance, the less moral responsibility people tend to attribute.
Key Research Findings: 1. Cushman et al. (2006) demonstrated that harm caused by direct physical contact is judged more harshly than harm caused by mechanical intermediaries. As steps increase between action and outcome, moral blame decreases. 2. Greene’s fMRI studies revealed that personal moral violations activate emotional centers in the brain more strongly, whereas impersonal ones engage cognitive regions, highlighting the role of emotional responses in moral judgments.
These psychological patterns have profound real-world implications, especially in institutional and systemic violence. Leaders who order drone strikes or enact harmful policies often face less moral condemnation than direct killers, despite causing more deaths. The abstraction and bureaucratic distance shield them from both psychological and legal accountability. Similarly, corporate decisions that lead to deaths—unsafe working conditions, environmental destruction—are treated more leniently than individual acts of violence. Institutional layers create moral distance that skews public perception and reduces legal consequences.
Evolutionary Roots: This cognitive bias likely emerged from our evolutionary past, where direct violence was the primary threat. In small-scale societies, assessing immediate physical harm was crucial for survival. However, in our modern, interconnected world, indirect harm can be far more devastating. Our moral intuitions lag behind this new reality.
Implications for Ethics and Accountability: Understanding this psychological quirk is crucial for building better ethical frameworks and accountability systems. While our instincts treat indirect harm as less severe, rational analysis reveals that consequences matter more than mechanisms. Aligning our intuitive judgments with rational ethical principles might involve educational programs that emphasize outcome-based thinking, policy reforms that close accountability gaps, or even AI systems designed to quantify and highlight indirect harms.
How do you think we might better address the challenges posed by this moral bias? Should education focus on training people to override these intuitive judgments, or are there other ways to reconcile intuition and reason in moral decision-making?
The CEO Killer seems to have found one way to address the challenges. Perhaps Mario will have a better method.
DarthKushHybrid@reddit
People have been conditioned to downplay or outright dismiss the harm inflicted by the people who control the system. When people in power abuse or kill at monstrous scale, it's often either obscured by the complexities of the system or worse, extolled by the corporate media as being good business. Many corporations seek to legalize their preferred method of harm-for-profit, utilizing huge amounts of money and political donations to get their way. I think more and more people are seeing through the cruel forces that put profit above ethics and all human decency, the outpouring of online support for Luigi being a signal of that.
Feeling_Bid_1360@reddit
How about cheering on billionaires who take joy rides into space, and with their emissions triggering tipping points that could kill millions. Why is that celebrated? Consumption of the earth kills living beings. Rich people, who consume, are long range killers.
StomachInevitable868@reddit
The device you posted this on is a result of "consumption of the earth"... China's manufacturing industry is 10 times worse than every rocket ever launched on US soil... Go touch some grass. I promise there is plenty out there.
boomaDooma@reddit
I cheer the billionaires that take submarine rides to the Titanic.
minhaalf@reddit
Link please!!
Twisted_Cabbage@reddit
Big Ministry of the Future, Children of Kali vibes this week.
jmdp3051@reddit
That's the first thing I thought of aswell
Ennuiology@reddit
Total Children of Kali.
Junspinar@reddit
It is important to know that Reddit eats boots as well.
justaquesetionnnnnn@reddit
((1))
Ok, listen to me here (now it has been taken down you will have to find it elsewhere if you want to follow along)--
Either he's just plain wrong, he's just plain wrong on purpose, or this is fake. I have looked it up and his facts aren't right. The US is not the 42nd in life expectancy, it's 48th/49th. Also, United is not (presumably he meant fourth) behind 'ONLY Apple, Google, and Walmart.' in market cap. It is actually 15th, with apple being 1, google 5, and walmart 10th. Notice, interestingly, besides 1 (there not being a 0 to reference) each goes up by five. (Is that important? idk, i'm just pointing it out because I noticed it.)
What makes this even more suspicious to me is his wording. Notice how he uses, 'Frankly' not once, but twice. 'Frankly' is a pullback word, and I would assume Mangione is actually fairly passionate. He also uses filler words, 'I DO apologize,' 'This was FAIRLY trivial,' (Note that I know I myself used the word fairly too, thus challenging my own point, but his was a manifesto to be read to the masses, so more effort might be expected to go into it.), 'The Reality Is,' 'the problems SIMPLY remain.' Even the most vitriolic sentance in the statement is watered down with filler words, "FRANKLY, these parasites SIMPLY had it coming." What I am trying to get through to you by pointing this out is that it all feels rather blase for a man who just ** someone.
justaquesetionnnnnn@reddit
((2))
Also, if this was hand written, who forgets an 'h' when writing 'has,' even if they're in a rush? Who forgets an 'o' in the word 'allowed?' The first possibility is that it's a secret hardyboy's message, the second is that the person who transcribed it messed up and hasn't fixed it, the third is that he messed up while writing (odd but not impossible), and the fourth, of course, is that this is not the real doc and is a fake.
Next, in the first manifesto that was released that turned out to be fake, the author didn't use an 'and' while making a list. It only happened once, but the way he did it was not a mistake, but rather a stylistic choice. I noticed it at the time because I tend to do it too. Random example: 'I need health, sanity, wealth.' Instead of, 'I need health, sanity, and wealth.' It is rare I see someone do this too, which is why I noticed it then, and why I noticed it now. This author, the same or different, does it as well:
'social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience.' and also, 'Behind only apple, google, walmart.'
I only point this out because I noticed this stylistic choice twice in one day, when I usually don't ever notice it, and they supposedly came from two different authors writing parallel documents.
Also, the structure is odd. If it was written in a rush (which is plausible, I guess) then it can be forgiven. But notice how he goes from being an 'extremist revolutionary' (lol) in the sentence, "Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming" (Even in this sentance, you can notice the way the tone switches from plain and blunt to emotional and subjective, ie, frankly, parasites.) And then right after that sentence, he goes into a reminder of facts and figures. I think it's odd, but maybe that's because I am reading too much into it.
justaquesetionnnnnn@reddit
((3))
Usually, when informal symbols trying to represent people manage to convince the masses to agree, it's merely a byproduct of the blatent honesty of their subjective truth, not the success of their pandering. That catagory is preserved for organized religions. This man, however, tries to convince us of his views with facts we could find on google ourselves and with statements we snark out at work every other week. This does not prove him as either an ideologue or an extremeist. He does not, in fact, sound any different from you or me. Of course, there is a difference--him being the one on national news for a reason--and from what I can tell, that difference is not apparent here.
To put it plainer--the reasonings he gave in this letter did not feel strong enough, subjective enough, or angry enough. If he was right or wrong to do such a thing is irrelivant in this particular conversation, what is important here is that people who are driven to such acts usually have personal, deep meanings they go into detail about. That he does actually have many--a spinal injury just to name one--is interesting. He didn't mention it. He mentioned (wrong) statistics instead. Why? He had a good reason right there, but he chose to cater to us using information we already know. People love a sob story, hell, even just a new story, but he gave us numbers instead. That never works. Ever. It's odd.
Lastly, though, notice how he says at the end, "[i'd expand] but I do not have space." Barring some sort of ambiguous metaphor, I would assume he means he doesn't have space on the page to lay out his point. If that is the case, then he had paper with him, but not enough. We can reasonably assume that because he did not have the ability to get more paper, he wrote it in a hurry. (There is the possibility he didn't want to risk trying to find some, but if that is so, why did he allow the cops to find a 'manifesto' he considered subpar? Otherwise, this could've just been another blase comment and he never intended to expand on the point even if he had the means.) But, if he WAS in a hurry, and therefore didn't have time to get more paper, he knew they were coming. He knew they were coming and he DIDN'T run? With this theory, he WANTED to be caught.
This is interesting: if he knew they were coming to that McDonalds, why did he wait four days to write what he ended up rushing? Why did he decide AFTER the ** that a manifesto needed to be written? Why did he say so bluntly (and not as well as others) what he already alluded to so elegently with the fake money and the words on the bullets? Why why why? It just doesn't add up. Did he only bring three pieces of blank paper with him to NY? If so, why blank? Why three?
Overall, I believe he either didn't write it at all, or he's playing a game. I find most of this suspect. This note (hardly a manifesto) is cold at points, wrong at points, then heated, then woe-is-America-pathos. None of which strikes me as the words of a very intelligent, cooridinated man-with-a-plan. He must've planned for so long and with several degrees of cunning to manage what he did, but at the last minute he writes this? No. I'm *cough* on his side *cough* and I still recognize that I could've written this better than he allegedly did, and I don't have a degree from PEN state.
(The other, simpler, answer is that he's a math man and not a poet. Idk. I haven't looked through his twitter yet. I almost want to see if the style is the same.)
justaquesetionnnnnn@reddit
Re-reading it, it has an almost, 'ah well, ah shucks, it is what it is, sorry it hurt you though.' feel to it. It feels sane, rational, reasonable, palatable. I'm not saying he isn't allowed to be all those things in light of what he has done. So maybe I'm wrong, maybe he never expected to be a symbol and never expected to be hilighted. Maybe before he did what he thought had to be done he resigned himself to an unimportant and mostly unreported imprisonment, and so wrote this. I really don't know. I'm theorizing.
WanderSupport@reddit
You make some good points. I also noticed his manifesto seemed a bit off. If you have the time, look at his Twitter, or X now, and read some his posts. He seems to be a bit more, idk, eloquent compared to the alleged manifesto. I don't have an X, but whipped one up just go do a deep dive. I enjoyed reading your points.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
Is there an archive of his twitter? I read that it was taken down and then restored, might not even be authentic. AI could create a 10 year fake twitter history in seconds. Maybe I'm losing it but I find it difficult to trust much of what's on the internet these days, especially in cases like this. On the manifesto, idk how any of us can truly trust any of them are authentic. Like this one is supposed to be authentic because it matches what NBC has? Oh please.
SpaceWaveAddict@reddit
The hero’s manifesto - post it in every thread:
“To the Feds, I’ll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country.
To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn’t working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done.
Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it.
Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain.
It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.”
As reported by Ken Klippenstein
Erieking2002@reddit
I think he might have intended to do more, the university of pittsburgh medical center has hospitals in altoona and johnstown and of course pittsburgh is only a couple of hours away (I’m from PA and know that general area very well,) and umpc is also apparently mired in more for profit insurance woes so he may have been planning to go there aswell
Novalid@reddit
Chatgpt's poetic take:
To the Feds, a brief refrain,
I respect the work you sustain.
No need for probes, no need for fear—
I acted alone; let me make that clear.
Elementary tricks, a patient hand,
Some CAD designs and a simple plan.
The spiral notebook, if it's there,
Holds scraps of thought, a record spare.
My tech is sealed, for I engineer,
But little of value will appear.
For any distress I may have caused,
I do apologize—no justice paused.
These parasites had earned their fate,
Their greed, unchecked, grew far too great.
The U.S. healthcare's glaring shame—
Expensive, yet we rank so lame.
United climbs the market's crest,
While public health is dispossessed.
Our life expectancy falters low,
As profits soar, unchecked, they grow.
The issue’s vast, the roots run deep,
Corruption wakes while justice sleeps.
Brave voices spoke, yet here we stand,
Power games corrupt the land.
I claim no wisdom, just a spark,
A brutal truth laid bare, though stark.
Let history judge what I have done,
For change must start with someone.
Live_Class_2675@reddit
Wow you guys are losers
PaPerm24@reddit
Reddit admin? Yea
Live_Class_2675@reddit
Loser
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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PaPerm24@reddit
Lol no u
Live_Class_2675@reddit
Yep, but it seems like the incels who like the admins have come for me
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
His manifesto is long, and full of words.
Actions are louder than words, and if Luigi is the Claims Adjuster™, then this manifesto is just a cherry on top of the already filling and hardy banana split of class violence already completed.
And, in my humble opinion, with this like manifestos, talk is cheap.
Still, it's funny Reddit is auto-deleting its posting.
Nobody reads four pages of a guy who's justifying what he's already done.
The act speaks for itself. Talk is cheap.
Reddit getting agitated is probably more interesting than the manifesto.
Worried about copycats? They didn't need a manifesto. They just needed an idea of what they could do, and the killing already gave America that much.
9035768555@reddit
Is it, though? It's pretty short and I would barely consider a manifesto.
SquirrelyMcShittyEsq@reddit
Multiple copies, both completely different, are circulating.
Feeling-Ad-4731@reddit
No, there's one real one and at least one fake one. I'd bet that the one Ken Klippenstein published is the real one.
SquirrelyMcShittyEsq@reddit
I certainly bet you're correct. Just pointing out there were multiple documents being circulated under the banner of "the manifesto."
9035768555@reddit
I've seen a few, but all of them fall into what I'd consider "pretty short and barely a manifesto".
Hamuktakali@reddit
Agreed, I think the term "manifesto" is supposed to make him look more deranged to the public. His (alleged) writings are basically a few tweets long!
SquirrelyMcShittyEsq@reddit
Yup, yup. This.
lavapig_love@reddit
It's been reported that many people raised on TikTok no longer have the patience for dense, long-form content like movies or books. Anything longer than a page might be legitimately considered time-consuming by their standards.
Immediate-Meeting-65@reddit
It's very short and reads more like what it is. A confession.
RichLamborghini@reddit
What? It was incredibly short. Do you not read anything ever? It was like 2 paragraphs are we this fucked with brain rot that we’re gonna pretend that’s long?
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
I'm mixing up the timelines, I guess. I was confusing his other postings, like the Kaczynski review, for this one paragraph blurb.
As far as manifestos go, after rereading it, I thought it was one of them.
I hope something changes from all this. I'm skeptical, but I'll hold onto a bit of hope, anyway.
But, this is the collapse sub. It will go all FUBAR, eventually, one way or the other.
CoolCredit573@reddit
The kaczynski blurb was also like 3 paragraphs max....
Sea-Associate-6512@reddit
There was another one with a few pages.
PaPerm24@reddit
What sub are we on?
DarkWillpower@reddit
hey just pitching in to say I'm right there with ya. even 2 pages , or 20 pages, isn't very long.. but you know, brain rot is very very real. so don't disregard it 😢
Willelind@reddit
I was wondering if you think talk is cheap?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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Striper_Cape@reddit
Bingo, violence of that nature is bound to spread. I'm interested in how far it goes.
Thysanodes@reddit
No, stop being a coward. Advocate for violence.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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Live_Class_2675@reddit
Losers
feo_sucio@reddit
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hotacorn@reddit
The reaction to this and the scale of it is a massive news story and it’s not genuinely being discussed by the media.
At the same time, I don’t think this is an entirely good situation like a lot of people but it does seem like a floodgate was opened. This does not feel like it’s going to just entirely go away, which means there is also a potential crisis developing here.
KeltarConspiraliano@reddit
It's certainly calling attention to just how censored we are. We're seeing nearly every organization snuff out anything on this topic in real time. They're fighting us hard.
LowChain2633@reddit
They were doing the same thing to project 2025 months ago. I am shocked that people are just waking up to the censorship now!
KeltarCentauri@reddit
Better late than never
hotacorn@reddit
It’s the most dystopian display I’ve ever seen of the disparity between conversations on mainstream media and conversations people have with their friends/family.
ShredderNemo@reddit
"This is extremely dangerous to our democracy"
TrickyProfit1369@reddit
Israel has been a wakeup call for me
hotacorn@reddit
Yeah that’s an interesting one too. I think this story is different in that it touches on an issue Americans deal with on a daily basis and on a personal level. So, even traditionally apolitical people at least partially understand what’s going on. It’s wild watching this unfold.
Batafurii8@reddit
Very very true
LowChain2633@reddit
They are going to use it as an excuse to crackdown on the proles more. Nothing good will come of this. I am honestly terrified.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
No crisis, it will fizzle, there's no critical mass of working class living in conditions conducive to action, revolution WILL NOT HAPPEN IN THE US. I'm ready for it as much as the next revolutionary, but it's just not in the cards.
hotacorn@reddit
Yeah but That’s not really what I meant. I think more likely scenario is a small handful of other actors carrying out similar actions resulting in a far more aggressive pushback from corporations, Law enforcement, Media. ETC. Further damaging the already broken state of the American publics mental state.
IsItAnyWander@reddit
I don't think we'll see any similar actions stemming from this one.
bristlybits@reddit
it's not in itself revolutionary, or mass direct action. it's just possible that people who would otherwise be shooting a school room, a parade, will now be aiming at specific CEO or politicians
IsItAnyWander@reddit
You really think the people targeting schools for mass shootings will turn on corporate America??? Man that is out there thinking.
regular_joe_can@reddit
I think it's going to just go away, mostly. Definitely no crisis. People are too apathetic and distracted and there are not enough people with nothing to loose.
The vast majority of people are going to talk about this as entertainment and continue on about their lives.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
I’m not sure why no one is talking about how this will play out in our supercharged political atmosphere. There’s a good chance we see more political/ideological killings like this in coming years, targeting specific leaders instead of mass shootings. Idk, I’m not as optimistic about positive change coming from this as others are. Not with how divided and trigger-happy this country is.
snowdrone@reddit
The school shootings are still happening.. there was one today in Sacramento
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
And we can’t even heard about these things so the frenzy.
bristlybits@reddit
if there is going to be violence this is less horrid than little kids getting hurt. I'll take that as a win of a sort.
the supposition is that many mass shooters are seeking notoriety; the media, despite its clamping down on the cause of this, have certainly shown future violent attackers that schools aren't where that "glory" can be gotten anymore.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Yes, this particular event is a quadrillion times less horrid than that.
But I’m worried that future shooters will seek notoriety from the political right, and go after the targets you’d expect them to to that end.
va_wanderer@reddit
Let's consider the two biggest shootings in terms of making waves were 1) the attempted assassination of Trump and 2) the United CEO killing.
The left may finally have decided to stop taking the high road in the face of a cancerous dystopia. Of course, at that point I also fully expect that kind of violence to become one of the most bipartisan reactions in American history. Once that happens, we're truly going to see a collapse.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
I do not disagree. The left (the actual left, not the the Dems) feel very vulnerable, attacked, and riled up right now. I’ve been keeping an eye on a lot of groups reactions, to see if anything seems to actually be happening, and frankly, it’s fascinating. I’ve been seeing Anarchists debating if violence is acceptable or supportable. (And of course, there’s mixed answers.) Socialists have been like, maybe the other left folks can stop infighting long enough to do something.
The primary issue, the “left” faces is that much of it has been wandering around chasing its own tail while many folks who actually give a shit about each other in a real way are taking direct action. And some of those folks are starting to directing act in new ways.
juxtaposz@reddit
Two words: Class consciousness. Ben Shapiro's own audience turned against him when he insisted they should be upset at the event. His audience correctly identified that it is folks like him who directly benefit from the political division.
Keep hope.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
That’s a hopeful sign
hotacorn@reddit
I 100% agree. This could lead to actual escalation from multiple parties across the social and political spectrum.
Rhetoric is just on fire right now in this country. I understand it, but damn do we need a way to channel it better, because traditional politics are not doing the job.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
At first I admit I got swept up in the excitement of this one. But now…yeah I don’t have a great feeling. If only Americans had violence less ingrained in our cultural DNA, we could have gotten the same results as this some other way. Throw a pie at the guy, spell out the words on the bullets with flaming colostomy bags full of poop at Big Insurance Corp’s headquarters…just something other than murder. Because we cannot handle this being a trend right now.
winslowhomersimpson@reddit
poop??
they’re killing sick people and you want to prank them?
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Was a dumb idea, sorry.
Gengaara@reddit
It could lead to further escalation, but there's no guarantees. Michael Reinhoel put down a fascist and his buddies with badges assassinated him. That, too, was an event that had the potential to build further unrest. The police station burning after the pigs lynched Floyd swayed public opinion briefly but didn't really result in much more long term.
That said, these sorts of actions do signal to others those deemed untouchable aren't as untouchable as they and the massess think, and it can reshape popular imagination. Maybe enough pebbles have been pushed now to start a rock slide.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Maybe. I mean that is what I hope (your second paragraph) but the problem is that this country is a powder keg right now. I’m not confident this moment of semi-unity will last and won’t get co-opted by nefarious actors.
Gengaara@reddit
By rock slide, I meant more individual acts of violence. I don't really see this nounting to too much myself. The propaganda of the deed era had some bangers, but its only lasting legacy is the FBI and INTERPOL.
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Yeah I just hope that if there are further acts, they are directed the right way too.
RichLamborghini@reddit
Ah then let everyone die from denied claims and be frozen out of the economy and left to rot :) because it’s “more peaceful”, less guns :) love people like you who just absolutely will live under oppressive genocidal tyranny to not have to think about guns :(
trivetsandcolanders@reddit
Will this make things better though? Will this help us get single-payer healthcare? Are you sure of that?
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
My spouse said he heard a piece on NPR written about it, and the interviewer seemed to be all “you wrote about people’s SHOCKING reaction” and the interviewee was all, “what is there to be shocked about?”
Dramatic_Security9@reddit
I laugh when I see mainstream news attempting to cover the social media reaction. They don't and make no mention of the elephant in the room.
Known_Leek8997@reddit
I enjoy it when they say things like “some people…” in reference to it.
mykittyforprez@reddit
I heard "Fringe elements" and "dark corners". And I'm like, it's the whole damn internet!
Hilda-Ashe@reddit
It's almost as if they don't have any honesty, brutal or otherwise.
Nastyfaction@reddit
The tension has been building up in the background. Even before this, we had that kid that tried to assassinate Trump and before him, there was that soldier that burnt himself alive to protest the war against Palestine. LGBT youths being involved with a few recent school shootings coincides with the growing persecution directed towards them as policy. These are all young people. I believe that we are reaching a point where many are start to conclude that the status quo will not yield to peaceful means nor can change be achieved through the system. With 2025 upon us and a more aggressive attitude towards dissent becoming more likely with the incoming regime, we could probably see even more violence over multiple issues.
SillyFalcon@reddit
I think cloudy with a chance of violence is a solid forecast for 2025.
atreides_hyperion@reddit
The shit winds are blowing, Randy
AcanthaceaeFun5327@reddit
America is Trailer Park Boys and this subreddit is Bubbles.
OVERSHARETX@reddit
Can someone please DM it to me if they have it
OppositeProgress5421@reddit
That’s why I saw someone read it on tiktok and I downloaded the video. I knew it would be taken down quick.
trolololster@reddit
yeah i don't know how to add images to posts on old.*
so here is a direct link to the image: https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/10521312a684af9a58ba22574b7dff6d5248d35c36d456eba8b0d739af8c688c_1.jpg
and here is an anonymized link to the page with the image: https://eu2-browse.startpage.com/av/proxy?ep=5047493649324974666a4572497a4d32637a64304d486b704e7941314e337073515870674132467a4254306a4d544578655845784b6d467a425351734a797371636a70336477496f4e336b3261545132625849304e79737362694d714e6a5132626a682f4a436b6b4d54306d4a58493862796b3749576b704969646f4e7a6377647a462f4a6945754d486b6750423053627867624c48786e4d476b734b5434345a5378304d4341674e7a563449446c744d7a746e4948456a637a4a7766446c735a57396e6648516c49544567644739744e3273306469426e4e796434435173386568496f4c6a345042783039437835364d7874336467426e4d435234635430364e47356b664864354a7a4a324a326c714e6d396866484d6e496d496a64473972597a77306479646e4e7a77674b5470695a446f6b4c43636b5a534e34416a347a637a70304e546379666d553d&ek=58313953525552425131524652463966&ekdata=af5f1c082ebfbbd625cbc00a89027a60
HenriettarNoir@reddit
Pure gold...pure pure gold...
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/WestVirginia/s/52yz45DC4u
Well, well, well.
Let’s see if this stays up. WV, the most fucked over state in the nation in some ways, is looking to make some movement here. I’m not sure Reddit will leave this post up because I saw at least one comment about insurance ceos and French Revolution devices.
Luigi reached someone somewhere.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
Also, Denver: https://www.reddit.com/r/DenverProtests/s/tLS1KXRx6e
Superworship@reddit
When oligarchs are untouchable by the legal system, people will decide that vigilante justice is better than no justice.
Is vigilante justice preferable to no justice at all? Left with no other choice, vigilantism becomes the lesser evil compared to passive submission.
To paraphrase Dr. King, we should demand a society that is just and equitable. Now we have a society with an illusory peace that is low on visible violence, but high on systemic violence.
CrumpledForeskin@reddit
They broke the social contract. We didn’t.
laeiryn@reddit
Weird to delay it just long enough for - oh right, for law enforcement to find someone to make a fake one XD
_rihter@reddit
In that case, can you please sort comments by new in this thread?
New stuff won't even get a chance to be seen with default sorting.
/u/SaxManSteve
SaxManSteve@reddit (OP)
done
Forlaferob@reddit
Thoughts and prayers to the ceo and the illusion of safety of the rich 🙏
rainbowtwist@reddit
Yes. Thoughts and prayers indeed. And guillotines. Time to sharpen the guillotines.
rematar@reddit
Defenestration.
Bring back the thud.
bebeksquadron@reddit
Flaying.
rematar@reddit
Oh. That is more appropriate. I appreciate your thought process.
FREE-AOL-CDS@reddit
In this economy? Can’t even spare that!
Veganees@reddit
I had the news on in the background. Apparently Malibu is on fire and millionaires homes are burning.
Thoughts and prayers (and more money to firemen plz)
Lyconi@reddit
As Capitalism tends toward end stage it begins to catabolise the host in search of profit such as war and systemic abuse. Health care and fossil fuels are industries making decisions everyday that kill people because those decisions are profitable and directors are incentivised to make them.
So the act is an act of abstracted self defense. A protective action taken to minimise the harm caused by the ravanoues for-profit American health care system. A statement that puts the elite on notice.
Elitist oligarchs cannot be negotiated or bargained with. They want it all and many of them will stop at nothing to advocate and finance policy that kills working class people so they can accumulate all the wealth and power for themselves. They do it all the time. They just abstract it away.
The own the government, political representatives, media apparatus, the judiciary, much of the cultural zeitgeist, the global financial system, all of it.
If you don't stop them with violence, how do you stop them?
hydraulicbreakfast@reddit
Perhaps the same way, something abstracted.
bebeksquadron@reddit
Exactly what Luigi did tho
hydraulicbreakfast@reddit
Murder is about the farthest thing from abstracted away as possible so idk what you’re talking about.
Icy_Youth_4446@reddit
Hmmmm, wow, imagine a corporate internet server house trying to block a socialogical uprising against a tyrannical system on a platform like reddit.
I would never expect the warlords of thought and consciousness to censor a socialogical uprising.... that's just not possible sigh
Dude is right, people are medicated to accept a shit system and then we are told if we are not medicated we are sick or need help because we are upset at a system obviously taking advantage of us.
DruidicMagic@reddit
reddit, a corporate site owned by shareholders...
and run by Operation Mockingbird
IPA-Lagomorph@reddit
Heard other stories such as Amazon removing products with the words from the bullets (eg instead of "live, laugh, love") Although elites reacting this way is unsurprising, it continues to feel like they are just increasingly figuratively panic-screaming "let them eat cake!"
Known_Leek8997@reddit
Go fund me is also heavily monitoring for any fundraising campaigns for Luigi and removing them.
ec1710@reddit
What's the principle? Do they remove all defense funds?
Known_Leek8997@reddit
I don't know how long that stipulation in their TOS has been there.
Grand-Membership-237@reddit
Wow, after allowing a Gofundme for George Zimmerman? https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html Color me not surprised.
CRKing77@reddit
you mean the thing that has become a shitty intermediary for universal healthcare ("please help, we're broke and poor but he works hard and was just diagnosed with brain cancer! We live in a trailer down by the creek, we have three kids and a dog, I can't work on account of my. Any little bit helps!") is shutting down any fundraisers for the guy who eliminated one of the bastards who make the very existence of GoFundMe in its current form necessary?
Color me shocked. Reality has been fucking broken.
(and don't take what I put in quotes as an insult to that fictitious family. GoFundMe really is a lot of people's health care. Just hope you're popular enough, attractive enough [and awful I even have to say that] or catch lightning in a bottle with your story, or you'll end up like the thousands of "raised $250 of $25,000 goal" fundraisers that ends in tragedy)
"Greatest country on earth guys, and you're un-American if you say otherwise!!!"
Known_Leek8997@reddit
Oh yes. The irony is not lost on me.
CRKing77@reddit
you know I read your response, went back and reread my comment and fuck, yeah I just realized it lowkey exposes GoFundMe
guess we need to see who runs GoFundMe and how reliant they are on the shady insurance industry. Why does EVERYTHING have to be like this?
Rephlexion@reddit
Oh... I thought you knew exactly what you were doing when you dunked on their whole business model... yeah, I wouldn't doubt some collusion when they charge 3% fees on single donations, and 5% on recurring donations. Take an average of 4% from their "over 9 billion dollars raised between 2010 and 2020" and you've got 360 million dollars. That's 36 million each year for helping maintain the status quo with a website that just handles the cash.
Nice work, either way! Spread the word, I'm sure you're not the only one who's thinking about it from that angle.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
Definitely. It’s why I refuse to use them. Period.
its_all_good20@reddit
We should not have to crowd fund children’s heart surgery’s. Or any health procedure.
__rogue____@reddit
I mean, we should. Its called taxes and universal healthcare
CRKing77@reddit
Some old coworkers of mine had a little girl. When she was 4 she was diagnosed with leukemia. When I worked with them we were all at Walmart: low pay, shit benefits. Yep, they went straight to GoFundMe.
Hell, even when people actually die GoFundMe is the go-to to help with the exorbitant and predatory funeral "industry." My poor boss has lost TWO sons prematurely in the last year and a half, and the costs of his woman's surgeries, and burying his babies, has put him on the edge of homelessness both times. And he's like me, too proud to ask for help so would never even consider GoFundMe, but thousands like him are out there across the country
but when we ask/demand the same universal healthcare the rest of the country has, they belittle us and call us "socialist." It's sick and insulting and I'm so fucking tired :(
ArgonathDW@reddit
did Rittenhouse and the J6 people get gofundme donations? I actually dont remember and dont care to look it up
ubermaker77@reddit
Most of them (including Rittenhouse) used GiveSendGo, a Christian crowdfunding site that allows far-right extremists to fundraise. They currently are allowing a fundraiser for Luigi as well, but it hasn't grown that big.
ArgonathDW@reddit
I had never heard of it so I just checked it out and yeah, weird to see fundraisers for J6ers listed next to this guy, but any port in a storm honestly. I think the greatest thing this event has done is revealed just how paper thin the differences between us are and how much shared rage we all feel. Like, almost the whole country supports this, despite the propaganda and censorship. it's unlike anything I've seen before except maybe 9/11, only this isn't a tragedy
internetALLTHETHINGS@reddit
The 2008 bailouts of large institutions shared this kind of universal opinion, in opposition to them. They didn't listen then either, and all the political craziness since then has been slow-rolling fallout.
bmtattoo@reddit
Lol
F0xtr0tUnif0rm@reddit
So much crazy bullshit has happened in the past few years it's hard to recall, but I feel like I remember them having to use an alternate fundraising website. Or maybe that was the truckers.
supersunnyout@reddit
you and I know the answer.
ArgonathDW@reddit
yeah, i know. what'll you bet the judge won't allow the trial to be televised like Rittenhouse's was?
ptaah9@reddit
Luigi doesn’t need the money. He went to Gilman and his parents own Hayfields Country Club. That’s the most fascinating part of the story to me.
snowdrone@reddit
That's very strange as he has not been convicted yet in a court of law.. like any accused he has the right to legal representation and to ask for help paying for it
Legionheir@reddit
Elite panic is real!
sink_your_teeth@reddit
Good. I want to see these pigs sweat.
huehuehuehuehuuuu@reddit
What they gonna do next, get rid of people holding up blank pieces of paper?
LegitimateVirus3@reddit
When all peaceful options are exhausted, what choice is left?
Medaphysical@reddit
As Chris Rock would say... "I'm not saying he should've killed him.... but I understand.".
normalizenihilism@reddit
Does anyone know where this came from? I read about the “fake” manifesto, but I don’t believe this is it. I have 5 more screen shots of text from it.
Probably_Boz@reddit
I'd drop a lucy parsons quote but that'd be removed. She had a good bit to say about this sort of situation though.
theoriginaltakadi@reddit
To the reddit corporate bootlickers, you’re on the wrong side of history and you gonna lose
VendettaKarma@reddit
Let’s find the McDonald’s snitch
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 1: No glorifying violence.
Advocating, encouraging, inciting, glorifying, calling for violence is against Reddit's site-wide content policy and is not allowed in r/collapse. Please be advised that subsequent violations of this rule will result in a ban.
Werilwind@reddit
It does feel a bit like a Lexington and Concord type event. No wonder they are trying so hard to suppress it.
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
So far, the BLM protests and OWS events made a much bigger impact/disruption on the ruling class. In terms of money and systems impact. More protests, more violence against corporate property, etc.
Yeah, this event is akin to a slave rebelling against a slavemaster, but so far it's only got people talking, and little else in terms of actual social impact.
I want to believe some fundamental change is happening, or will very soon, but I was disappointed in those earlier events, as well.
Ah, well. This is the collapse sub. Even here, this is but a tiny moment of the Great Machine™ slipping in its performance, tearing itself apart, one foul event at a time. Another drop in the growing ocean of misery, ready to finish the breakdown of the levees that our choices began destroying, centuries ago.
Violent Venus by Saturday.
Quillemote@reddit
I think, if there's any difference, it's that BLM and OWS were still trying to more-or-less function within the rules. Protesting is allowed, if you get permits, so there's still a framework in which protests are following the social contract and therefore not a threat to the order. Even when OWS was disobeying the rules by being where they weren't supposed to be, they were still doing so in a way which meant pushing up against the edges of the rules without going outside of them.
It's a lot more frightening to the establishment when someone breaks the code entirely in a way which totally disrespects their order and social positioning. And I expect/hope it's a much more telling sign when the reaction of the commonfolk is "hell yeah!" rather than "OMG how dare he!"
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
Sure enough.
Though after the violence spills forth onto the streets, and the peasants and peons are howling for blood, there won't be any exit ramp get anybody to stop being violent and start saying "Yeah, I think we're ready to come back to the table and try and talk this out now."
That moment will have to arrive eventually.
I currently don't think that moment will arrive until after the US ceases to exist in its current form, however.
I'm feeling fairly certain it's just a question of when.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
Lenin had to tell folks to stop popping people off because as fun as it was, it was impeding organizing an actual government. (I’m paraphrasing.)
Quillemote@reddit
Democracy has done a pretty good job of building in an acceptance of helplessness. It gives us the illusion that the current order exists because we want it this way, not because it's been forced on us by the ones in control, so most people will protect their "freedom system". I'm kinda hoping to stick around long enough to see the illusion develop worse than just a few surface cracks.
ContessaChaos@reddit
The shot heard 'round the world.
DonBoy30@reddit
lol i wonder if reddit never went for the IPO and become a publicly traded company if they’d still remove the manifesto. I’ve read many manifestos on reddit by people who murdered college students, school children, a particular ethnic group, and people of certain religion with most issue. I’m sure you could search for them right now and they’re still on reddit somewhere.
It’s never been more obvious how much of our media ecosystem, not just our mainstream media ecosystem, is designed to protect the interests of our influential wealthy investor class.
It’s become so apparent by this event, that the act of suppressing Luigi’s fame by media is almost as big of a story as our failed insurance industry and how evil and greed has permeated across our healthcare system. There are millions of us who spend more time plugged into social media as a medium to the world around us than being out in the world interacting with their communities. It’s no wonder nothing gets changed on healthcare, our environment/climate change, education, and labor. Social media is slowly going the way of mainstream media, where common people’s ideas are crafted delicately to avoid these hard conversations so our billionaires who invest in these platforms and media outlets can continue to profit.
1_Pump_Dump@reddit
There's a great book about it called Manufacturing Concent, this has been going on for a long time.
____cire4____@reddit
FYI A quick Google search will help you find plenty of substacks that have it published online.
divusdavus@reddit
areyouhungryforapple@reddit
USA is a country birthed and bathed in blood since its inception but violence is a big no no?
People need to brush up on history clearly
Wollff@reddit
With things being as they are, let's mince words and write poetry:
Red flowers shall bloom from green paper barons
Even thousand millions can't hinder the arising of true heroes from what's twice amended
Of course the interpretation of this expressive piece of poetry is up to any individual. I don't mean anything specific.
Xielle@reddit
You can’t share your thoughts on reddit. Time to go to X.
PaPerm24@reddit
Sarcasm has died. Need the /s tag
demented737@reddit
cisgender
its_all_good20@reddit
“they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it.”
Alarming_Award5575@reddit
Perhaps we should take this conversation to 4chan
HardNut420@reddit
I'm not advocating for anything but you know do what you want I support you lamo
Traditional-One8165@reddit
Understand it, don’t advocate it.