ULPT request - walked out of dealership without actually paying down payment
Posted by streetsavagee@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 296 comments
Thought I made off like a bandit till i got a phone call this evening from the finance advisor saying he made a mistake and forgot to collect payment. He asked if i could pay over the phone which i declined because there was a fee, he asked if i could come by tomorrow.
I have all paperwork plus keys. as well as a receipt claiming i already paid the down payment.
What happens if i don’t show up or pay down payment?
elsie14@reddit
a friend attempted to buy a house without handing over any earnest money (the agent messed up). without the check he said there was no assurance of contract as there was no actual earnest money which was in the contract. your problem is similar, and without proof of a check your contract is likely void. i would pay it, but if need be, consult a lawyer.
Reasonable-Two-7298@reddit
follow up by accusing them of trying to scam you into paying twice.
knuckles_n_chuckles@reddit
Don’t steal. You can’t get away with this because they made a mistake.
Klutzy-Bet-2928@reddit
You havep a receipt, but no proof. There is no financial instrument. No cancelled check from you, no statement from your bank stating you withdrew an equalivent amount of cash to pay the invoice. In other words, you can't prove that you paid.
streetsavagee@reddit (OP)
UPDATE: Went back and paid the down payment🤠
ARCreef@reddit
State laws differ BUT the dealer still owns the car and will repo it. I've even seen dealers repo cars after 24 hours when they changed the finance offer AFTER it was already signed and the buyer was in possession of the car for 2 or 3 days. The customer said no, we already agreed to everything and dealership reposed the car. Depending on the state they can modify terms after a signed deal. They will 100% repo it if you don't pay that in 2 or 3 days.
SeoulGalmegi@reddit
If you didn't act surprised straight away on the phone jabbering about 'Hey, I paid you cash!' then you've probably fucked it before it began.
FaithlessnessNew3057@reddit
Yeah he needs to just pay. He admitted to the finance department he knows he didnt give the down payment so theres no playing dumb that he gave them cash. Unless it was like $500 or he got absolutely hosed on price of the car they arent going to let it go.
Slight-Ad-1038@reddit
Valid point but since this isn't ELPT or ULP we have to stay on task unethical and tip.
Since piss disks are out, OP can just say he was high during the whole process and still too high to understand when they called. Change your phone number or never answer another call from them. You make payments to finance company, not the dealership.
They need to prove you didn't pay. And you have a receipt, so they'll need to do extra to prove that. Hopefully you were gonna pay cash and have a trail for withdrawal. Double down and say you must have paid because you went straight home and don't have the cash anywhere.
On the other side of that, paperwork takes a while to process so there's time for them to find a way to fvck you over.
Personal_Juice_1520@reddit
You won’t be making payments to the finance company, because the dealership isn’t going to turn in the loan paperwork until you pay them. They’re also not going to issue you any kind of title so you won’t be able to get plates
Slight-Ad-1038@reddit
Your point is valid PJ1520 but we're having whole conversations about what not to do taking it outside of the spirit of the sub. He couldn't piss disk his own car, so we have to look at the other stuff and answer what was asked.
Sucks to say but someone who is guilty still has a right to a defense based on the merits of the case not the fact they did the crime, so people get away with stuff all the time.
All that being said, I saw somebody say OP is only talking about $1000 before I even replied. I didn't think it was worth the effort/risk but they didn't ask that, they asked how possibly to get away with it 😄
justwastedsometimes@reddit
That's just stupid. The sub is still called unethicallife"Tips". If the suggestions aren't going to work, point it out lol.
Slight-Ad-1038@reddit
Ok guy, since it means that much to you, the requests are for unethical tips. Your policing the efficacy of a tip is just as useless as the tips you "know" won't work.
So there's no chance anything works, OP should not even bother asking and nobody should respond because no one, anywhere, ever in life has been in that situation and had a possibility of getting away with it.
Also note that piss disks and liquid ass are the top suggestions and most revered in this sub... it's not that serious.
Thanks for your input though
Illeazar@reddit
Wait wait wait, why are we dismissing frozen urine already?
sarco_dank@reddit
Yeah WHAT IF OP has an envelope mailed to the dealership that says “OP’s payment 12/14/24” but it’s actually just piss disc? The urine would melt by the time the cops came.
FaithlessnessNew3057@reddit
There is no tip to get out of paying. Play dumb all you want, theyre either going to take you to small claims court and get their money or pop the car and youll eat shit on the back end.
Genius.
Loud-Result5213@reddit
Award this response! ⭐️^^
Dry-humper-6969@reddit
Not at all, He can still claim I have receipts. And purchase order shows I paid down payment. Dealership has 2 options, ask nicely to pay or threatens to sue you. Yet under what circumstance? You go to court show paperwork showing money collected, your gain their loss.
kkkkk1018@reddit
You go to court, judge asks for cancelled check or money trail of down payment. Judge subpoenas all your bank records.
nagerseth@reddit
Actually the paid invoice is proof ilenough. Once funds have been handed.over, it is not your responsibility to make sure they handled it correctly.
Something similar happened to my dad years ago. Lawyer told him not to go back and pay. It's on the dealership, not on you.
supersonicdutch@reddit
But what would the invoice say? It won’t have a check number or cash listed or the tracing numbers of a credit or debit card. I guess what I’m getting at is “how did they print a receipt without an actual payment method that was entered as the payment”?
Dry-humper-6969@reddit
The dealership is not going to go through all that trouble, they eat the difference. Which is why they call him, asking him nicely to bring money or pay over phone. This way they don't have to wait and see if he actually brings money in.
Tiako_Ianao@reddit
Only the actual cash trail is proof, and deliberately lying regarding the cash payment would be evident fraud. Not worth it.
HumbleCiragee@reddit
Ehh, you can still lie, like - “oh shit wait what?! No no no no I paid you bro!”
Dry-humper-6969@reddit
Exactly 💯, I paid, I have proof. Where is hour proof of no payment?
Swing_batabata69@reddit
Those cameras in the rooms are their proof...
Dry-humper-6969@reddit
Them dang cameras barely work, they are more to scare you into thinking the way you are.
Swing_batabata69@reddit
Not at the dealerships that I worked at. The cameras were way to high def. And a few of them picked up audio as well.
Dry-humper-6969@reddit
You missed the part, I said barely work. This isn't the first time I've heard of a guy walking out paper work in hand and dealership coming after forgotten down-payment. Guess what all of them got their title, dealership eats that cost or gets back to the finance guy for failure to collect. Haven't seen one instance of a dealer pushing this to court.btakes more time and money to be in court than to be at dealership ripping people off.
No_Dance1739@reddit
He doesn’t have proof of payment and both parties know that
Dry-humper-6969@reddit
He has purchase order showing money down and receipt of money paid. That's all that is needed to say I already paid.
Grandpas_Spells@reddit
Dealers take cash all the time and issue receipts for it. OP doesn't have one.
There is no play here.
ktn24@reddit
OP says they have a receipt.
No_Dance1739@reddit
Not a receipt. The paperwork indicated it was paid; they know it’s not paid unless theirs a receipt attached
vlad_thegod@reddit
“As well as a receipt claiming I already made paid the down payment”
No_Dance1739@reddit
I read paperwork, my bad
Ok-Vermicelli-7990@reddit
A down payment just goes into the finance bros pocket. No good comes if it. Do some research. Have them redo paperwork without the downpayment and use that money instead on your first payment. You will come out financially better on your loan. Car finance bros exist to screw you over. Use a bank or credit union instead. Ethical lpt.
persistent_architect@reddit
This same technique is often suggested for mortgages: bigger first payment vs bigger down payment. If you do the math, it is because the same thing. The down payment doesn't just go into the finance bros pocket lol
redditnoob909@reddit
There’s cameras in all of the offices at the dealership. Your life pro tip is useless.
Source- worked at dealerships for 12 years.
Gorpachev@reddit
I kind of had the opposite experience. I paid a large down payment with my card personally to their finance manager. Months later he calls me saying they don't have a down payment from me. After tons of unnecessary back and forth, I had to provide fucking bank statements to prove I made the payment. Man that really left a bad taste in my mouth.
Appropriate-Spend577@reddit
Do you really consider becoming a criminal?
jrobertson50@reddit
Then they repo the car. Because your stealing it. You presumably signed a contract your in breach of.
Midon7823@reddit
Your
jrobertson50@reddit
Correcting grammar on the Internet is as useless as nipples on men.
Midon7823@reddit
I didn't correct anything. I simply wrote a paraphrased quote from your ideas that happened to only be one word. 🙄
WheresMyD0ge@reddit
You're
Solid-Consequence-50@reddit
Yar
TacoFiddler@reddit
Yerrr
Penguin_Butter@reddit
Yaw
Mission_Albatross916@reddit
Yore
Optimal-Narwhal-468@reddit
Ur
InfluenceDapper6476@reddit
Yawp
MarvinHeemeyersTank@reddit
Your'n
poliscijunki@reddit
Urine
anythingbutwork@reddit
About 25ish years ago, this same thing happened to my boyfriend at the time. He cashed a bunch of savings bonds that he had gotten in his childhood and was going to use that for a down payment, around $1000 iirc. We were at the dealership and he got his receipt too and it was all in the paperwork that he had paid this down payment, but as we pulled into a restaurant for dinner after leaving the lot with his new truck, he reached in his pocket and found the cash still in the bank envelope.
He kept it and when the dealership called him to try to collect, he played dumb and said he gave them the money. He had the receipt and the paperwork, there was nothing they could really do.
Coindoge69@reddit
Cameras everywhere nowadays
zaqwsx82211@reddit
True, but as other said, the dealership is trying to prove something didn't happen, not that it did happen.
Camera can be doctored especially if not timestamped. If there is any area not covered, maybe the cash was handed there, or maybe a body obscures the view at the wrong time.
If they want an ULPT then its to play dumb and make them prove to a judge that you never paid.
If the want an ethical answer they can say something along the lines of "give me a discount for wasting my time, I value my time at $xxx amount and between driving and paying it will take me 2+ hours, so I expect that amount of a discount."
GandizzleTheGrizzle@reddit
Yea - that's the biggest difference between now and 20-25 years ago.
andrew_Y@reddit
Dealing with cash in a retail environment requires a two party accountability procedure. You don’t put cash in someone’s desk inbox slot. You count it out and get initials.
The receipt was verification that cash was received. Think about how much data is captured on a single receipt. Dates, times, register location, operator name.
Cash gets slippery and camouflage when nobody is watching.
crispyslife@reddit
Sounds like you have a major win, bandit! You have the paper, therefore you have the proof of payment! Anything else is the dealership being sketchy and ripping you off!
daveshops@reddit
Having to go back to the dealership for any warranty issues should be interesting
Ihaveadick7@reddit
Most of these are not ULPT at all! No matter what anyone says, if you ignore the moral aspect, this is a GRAY area.
You are well within your rights to just not pick up the phone anymore. Block the number. They can't report the car stolen; you have all the legal paperwork, they can't try to repo it because you have the loan info. At best, they can try to take you to small claims court and recoup the funds, but that is time-consuming, expensive, and again you have the paperwork. They will just eat the loss, and no one will care about it in a year.
The worst case scenario is some how you have to pay them. And that's the worst case. So why not try ignoring them first.
n0tstress@reddit
How were you able to drive off without payment? Not that I want to do this
Regular-Stable-6717@reddit
This happened with my dad with the last car he bought except it was the sales tax that they messed up on. They realized they didn't collect the sales tax after he took delivery of the car. He says tough luck, never went back and ignored their calls. They didn't/couldn't do anything. He has papers saying that he paid everything.
Anagoth9@reddit
Strictly speaking, if the reseller doesn't collect the sales tax then it's incumbent on the purchasing party to send it to the state. You can usually get away with it if it's a small enough transaction but with cars the state will collect when you transfer the title or register it for the first time. The dealership usually offers to take care of all of the DMV paperwork on your behalf so you don't end up seeing that. It's possible the dealership just covered it and took it out of someone's commission but there may also have been a clause on the contract to cover such situations and just have it tacked onto the loan.
gerbergirth@reddit
There are documents you sign, errors and omissions, that cover these exact examples. The dealership gets their money.
ftwes@reddit
There’s also errors and omissions insurance the company pays for this type of thing. So they might get their money, just maybe not from the buyer.
Regular-Stable-6717@reddit
Seeing as this happened 3 years ago and the car is now paid off, maybe this dealership didn't have those documents lol. You could be right in some cases but in this case he got away without paying.
gerbergirth@reddit
Big win there
Blocked-Author@reddit
Couldn’t just admit you were wrong, could you?
gerbergirth@reddit
Get a life
Blocked-Author@reddit
Maybe I’ll take yours
joeyirv@reddit
you have a receipt saying you paid the down payment and now they’re claiming you didn’t. how do you know the agent didn’t just pocket your cash?
streetsavagee@reddit (OP)
i never inserted my card or handed cash over - but have a paper receipt saying “$____ received”
joeyirv@reddit
so it sounds like you paid cash and got a receipt, right?
Cautious_Log8086@reddit
This is the actual ulpt for this situation
JL9berg18@reddit
Ultimately they'll sue you amdale you swear under oath that you did / didn't pay the down payment. Theyll send the suits after you and get you on record saying you know you didn't pay, possibly claim fraud, etc. It would be the financial equivalent of taking cocaine to get rid of a hangover. You end up in a far worse spot than you started.
You could play hardball though and say here's the receipt, show the rep the documentation that you paid, insinuate that you could have paid cash, and then (without admitting anything) tell rep that you understand what would happen of this were to get more complicated (knowing that the rep would also have to tell the floor mgr that he gave you a receipt without collecting payment, which is a huge no-no) and then, when you establish that they know you know they know, offer a compromise of like 2k less on your DP. If you're in a state with a 24 hr cool off period, you could also use that as a bargaining chip - but if you're going to say you'll walk away, you better be prepared to walk away.
To augment this, if you have someome you trust, you could have a person you give financial power of attorney to (essentially, an agent - someone who can sign for you and enter into a contract on your behalf - it doesn't have to be an attorney) go in your stead and go through the same rigamarole as above. That way they couldn't corner / shame you into doing them a solid and letting it slide for free.
Slight-Ad-1038@reddit
Overall I don't disagree except for OP's right against self incrimination. But I like the PoA approach if OP doesn't have the stones to stand on business, but that person must have NOTHING to do to sign up for that 😂
gleep23@reddit
This post would be part of their evidence.
JL9berg18@reddit
Only if (1) opposing counsel asked for something like "any statements made, including any social media posts or content, YOU made regarding the incident" and either (2) OPs lawyer didn't successfully object to it (this post is likely hearsay because it would likely be used to prove what actually happened, and hearsay has limitations in admissibility), or OP actually produced it.
gleep23@reddit
It would be available to purchase through a data broker.
JL9berg18@reddit
Zero chance anyone would use anything like that in a case like this.
And nobody here has any idea how likely a data broker would be able to get OPs info, including this post. The only thing we do know is that if he deleted it the chance would be zero.
wit_T_user_name@reddit
As a lawyer, requesting all communications, including social media posts, made by a party in a case is a standard request for documents in our office. And this post wouldn’t be hearsay. For one thing, it’s a statement made be a party opponent, which is always admissible as not hearsay pursuant to the rules of evidence.
JL9berg18@reddit
1 - "All social media posts" is often asked but rarely made an issue. Further "list all social media use rids, handles, etc" never gets answered and never survives any MTC. And I've never seen any atty ask in special rogs "have you ever made any posts about the issue on any social media sites or message boarsa (including but not limited to reddit)" although that would be smart.
2 - in my opinion and expwrience, opp csl would have a hard time proving this post is a "statement of which he has manifested his adoption or belief in its truth," which is a part ofost hearsay regs (again, in my experience). The locker room talk" defense in forums like this is usually pretty successful.
Imaginary-Bid-8171@reddit
What if the cameras at the dealership show OP never having so much as held a single note in his hand?
SectumsempraBoiii@reddit
That’s the real issue with this
aashay2035@reddit
Most dealers record the convo for this reason.
illla_B@reddit
CA is a two party consent state, all members of a conversation need to agree to be recorded.
So no they dont record your conversations, at least here in CA
aashay2035@reddit
That doesn't mean they can't have audio recordings within the premise. Aka you are in a public area, a dealership, they can record your audio there. On the phone it is different. But laws vary by state.
phrunk7@reddit
A dealership is not a public place, it's a private business.
aashay2035@reddit
A public space is a place like a park, mall, restaurant, etc. Its where members of the public are allowed to enter.
Fuzzdaddyo@reddit
Actually, the only way they can legally is of yhere is a sign in an obvious place stating that audio and video are being recorded on the premises. I was at a concert in LA and was surprised I didn't have to sign any waivers or anything. There was also a sign that said if I didn't agree I could get a full refund d for my ticket.
hotwifefun@reddit
It is a 2 party state however there is an exception for “safety” which is why businesses are allowed to record audio/video in their establishments.
Also, California allows an illegally recorded conversation to be admitted as evidence in criminal cases, provided it falls within a hearsay exception. For example, the recording may be allowed as a declaration against interest, an inconsistent or contemporaneous statement, a party admission or used to impeach a witness. This is the same rule as under federal law.
Bawlsinhand@reddit
I'm pretty sure this isn't the case. Even in situations of domestic abuse a victim could need a judge to sign an order allowing an exception to the two-party rule to gather evidence.
hotwifefun@reddit
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=633.5.&lawCode=PEN
Bawlsinhand@reddit
Interesting, thanks! I looked up this topic a few years ago and didn't find that statute.
LowestKey@reddit
I wonder if this would be a criminal case or civil suit?
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Same in WA
mitrolle@reddit
The cameras missed it, or the dealership deleted that part. He still has the receipt.
They don't have evidence of him paying, but he still does have evidence of paying, signed and stamped.
SheriffHeckTate@reddit
They likely have cameras showing OP in every step they took from getting to the dealership to leaving, which will most likely be time stamped. That'll probably do just as much to prove they forgot to collect payment as the receipt is proof that they didnt.
Basically the whole thing will boil down to how willing is the judge to believe that the dealership employee forgot, which this probably isnt the first time this has happened, so I doubt it will be hard to believe.
The real question is how much OP wants to gamble with it. If you win you save $5k. Lose and you'll pay more than that.
original_wolfhowell@reddit
Having supported a couple dealership's IT infrastructure, there's a non-zero chance that the cameras don't work, are incorrectly configured, or aren't actually recording and are just live video. I've seen all three instances.
Scoottttttt@reddit
Car dealerships aren't banks. They don't have cameras in the finance manager's office or peering into every corner of every salesman's cubicle
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Can’t use camera to prove something didn’t happen.
JustGiveMeAnameDude9@reddit
It ain't a Casino.
That being said, just pay them. You owe, you know you owe it, you know you didn't pay them.
accountnumberseven@reddit
I wouldn't suggest scamming a casino either, that's how you get your bones broken and your kids molested.
Actual_Doughnut9248@reddit
How ethical of you. /whoosh
PremiumUsername69420@reddit
“Oh yeah, cameras exist” -OP in a courtroom, caught in his lies, probably
mastonate@reddit
This is a good answer. Try to leverage their mistake into a benefit. Even a small one. Sound inconvenienced for having to take time off and show back up. Maybe they throw you a bone. Even $250 is still a windfall to you.
But ultimately, don’t commit fraud.
KidenStormsoarer@reddit
make you? they can't MAKE you do anything. they can sue you, they can subpoena you, but they can't make you testify against yourself. "did you pay?" "i invoke my fifth amendment rights"
JL9berg18@reddit
Lol sure...the full sentence is "...make you [defend yourself by] testifying under oath that you did/didn't receive the cash"
Car lot would take legal action, and OP would have to defend by saying he paid the down payment. Car lot would make him confirm his defense under oath [as part of his defense]. Does that bring you joy? Smh
Also, the fifth amendment wouldn't apply in a normal civil case limited to the situation OP is talking about.
SuperFLEB@reddit
But if they wrote the inaccurate receipt, that would make it fraud, criminal, and you could take the fifth.
(I am not a lawyer and this would be terrible legal advice.)
JL9berg18@reddit
No.
Fraud includes the victim's reliance on a statement made that is intended to deceive.
In this case, OP and car lot both know OP didn't pay, but OP is using the recept as leverage.
And at least 99.99% of ULPT is horrible legal advice. This little sunthread chat is not legal advice at all though 😆😆
setzke@reddit
I have a retired uncle who would LOVE to be put in that role. He looks forward to scam callers as he can make half a day of entertainment out of it, and once got a 10k discount on a vehicle because unfortunately their social media intern agreed to a price in an email that she shouldn't have, and he knew all the rules and proper threats.
SuperFLEB@reddit
Does he know about the Air Canada AI chatbot case a little while ago? He could have a whole new pastime as more places shove AI into their customer service flow.
twistedbrewmejunk@reddit
Also you can forget about those free oil changes /s
TolMera@reddit
I plead the 5th
Bekah679872@reddit
They’ll subpoena your bank records
Babelwasaninsidejob@reddit
One, two, three, four, fiiiith!
sgtpepper171911@reddit
Thats a bad metaphor. Cocaine 100% fixes a hangover
Unicoronary@reddit
Assuming it did go to court, it would fall apart when bank records got subpoenaed and it turned out OP didn't pay.
If it were done over the phone — it couldn't be cash.
Responsible_Taste837@reddit
That's the beauty of cash, no bank records.
You've been saving for years under your mattress, every nickel and dime
kappakai@reddit
So the accounting department pocketed a five gallon Sparkletts of nickels and dimes?? Those are some deep pockets.
Bendi4143@reddit
This !!
Godenyen@reddit
My dealership actually records the transaction so people can't claim things like this.
theepi_pillodu@reddit
They have cameras dude.
mitrolle@reddit
So what? The cameras didn't catch the exchange of money because it maybe happened outside of dealership, OP still has the receipt that proves that he paid, signed and stamped.
They can't show he handed them the money, he can show they took the money, because they gave him a receipt for it.
Bekah679872@reddit
Until they take you to court and subpoena your financial statements
bmorris0042@reddit
The big problem is that as soon as you say you handed him the money, they’re going to ask details about where he did it, and what the dealership guy did after that. If they have any of that on camera, you’re busted. Or, if they don’t have exactly what you described happening on camera, you’re busted.
Independent-Can-1230@reddit
How long until they pull the dealership pulls out the in court saying you never paid cash
SuperFLEB@reddit
They wouldn't need to, once OP has to turn over this thread where they say they didn't pay anything.
VermicelliLanky4057@reddit
I work for a company who records the entire F&I process for training purposes. They have footage of the entire deal and will see no exchange happen. OP is dreaming if they think this will just go away.
SirRockalotTDS@reddit
They can pay to go to go to cort?
What do you think would happen in your justice fantasy? Is the Deductable going to came for OP? Is he going to end up in jail somehow?
Do you remember where you are now?
PrestigiousTea3681@reddit
The way everything is perversely fungible to a car dealership you can be excused for not being sure whether you paid it or not. But your receipt is evidence that you did. Put the shoe on the other foot and ask "how would the dealer play it if the buyer came around asking for something he did not get nut was promised". Well, they would pull out a copy of that slip the buyer signed off on and tell them to fuck off.
Silkhenge@reddit
Crazy you have to say this twice when the dealership wouldn't even think about dropping off a bridge to get their money.
The ignorance of good people is the downfall of goodwill.
AICPAncake@reddit
I was there. OP definitely paid
OutinDaBarn@reddit
Me too and they must have edited the video. I think our friend is in the middle of some kind of shakedown because they sold the car too cheap.
SadNana09@reddit
I was there too, and I will back OP up. But, don't forget my share of the dp you promised me. We agreed on half.
SeaResearcher176@reddit
😂😂 👏🏻
Idiotan0n@reddit
Some people's children
EdgyAlien@reddit
Tell them you will only pay if they refund the amount that is stated on the receipt so you know they aren’t stealing money from you but obviously word it differently so you don’t come off as assuming they’re scamming you
Rae_1988@reddit
ask a lawyer i dunno
forewer21@reddit
In the real world they'll just repo the car and you'll fuck your credit up. You can argue the paperwork says it was paid and maybe even win a civil case based on that for the money but probably not worth it since the dealer will not let it go.
randomusername8821@reddit
It sounds like the real ULPT is to sell someone a car, and if they pay in cash, pocket it and claim you never received it, and repo the car?
lahuerta@reddit
This is wrong. Dealership doesn’t own the contract, finance company does. Finance company doesn’t care if dealership don’t collect down payment unless he doesn’t pay for the car.
Dealership can’t repo.
mitrolle@reddit
Then he can repo it back, it's his car, he paid for it, he even has the receipt and the papers and keys.
Skarth@reddit
It's a down payment, meaning its financed. He doesn't own it.
SubjectAdvertising36@reddit
The finance company would have to repo it but since op has reciepts and is making payments, what justification doe they have to repo the car? The dealership failed to transfer the money to the lender as OP has receipts showing he paid the down payment.
Delicious-Image-3082@reddit
Surely the dealership could prove he never actually paid if it came down to a legal battle, right?
serioussparkles@reddit
Just keep in mind that those places have cameras everywhere. They could probably replay your entire interaction and see that you didn't pay. So if anything, play dumb:
"Im confused, you say i didn't pay, but i have a receipt that says i did, why would i have the receipt if i didn't pay?"
So don't lie and say you paid, it's all about the receipt saying you did.
RootsRockRebel66@reddit
Tell them you want to cancel the transaction and you want your deposit back. Free cash!
Ceruleangangbanger@reddit
Then go different dealership and buy free car
Far-Deal8811@reddit
That's crazy that they lost your cash bro
Frenchman84@reddit
I don’t know, kind of sounds like you did pay the cash and someone pocketed the money. Question is why they would ruin their life like that?
No_Dance1739@reddit
Reread op’s post they did not get a receipt
jbaxter119@reddit
Reread op’s post they did get a receipt
SeaResearcher176@reddit
😂
i_HATE_raw_potatoes@reddit
We just bought a car a few weeks ago. They have something in the contract that they have 15 days to void the contract and get the car back. I’m too lazy to dig it out right now and look at the logistics stated.
i_HATE_raw_potatoes@reddit
I’m saying the dealership could void the contract. Sure OP has a receipt he payed the deposit. but if the dealership says they didn’t receive the funds and voids the contract and repossesses the car-I’m sure they won’t just give him the deposit back. He would probably hafta take them to court. Seems like a horrible pain in the ass-plus, no car. That’s all.
mitrolle@reddit
Yeah, but then they have to pay back his down payment, which he has a receipt for, proving that he paid.
Slight-Ad-1038@reddit
New level unlocked.
🗣 you saying OP needs to return the car for refund?
This guy ULPTs
FMousey@reddit
I’d request good proof that I didn’t pay just to be sure since I have the receipt and wouldn’t want to pay twice, and that was such a stressful day and I could’ve sworn I already paid. If they are able to prove it, I’d express I’m glad we got it sorted but that this is really, very inconvenient and ask for a discount since you have to run to the bank for cash again and drive back over and everything on account of their mistake.
lenbabyluv@reddit
Just don't go pay. Don't answer the phone. Live life. They will probably take it to court. You can just settle then or proceed to trial. Or maybe they don't do shit.
dertigo@reddit
Not the same situations but i was leasing a car and it was this guys first week on the job. He didn’t know anything so i asked for a new person to deal with. They wouldn’t do that and told me he was fine. As I was signing the paperwork I noticed that the car listed was the right model and color but the top trim whereas I wanted the basic one. All the numbers that had been filled out were for the lowest trim but all the important info was for the highest one. Once the papers were signed and the keys were handed over I got out of there ASAP.
Two days later I get a call from the finance dept asking me to come in to fix some mistakes. I asked what mistakes and they said they couldn’t tell me over the phone and I needed to do it in person. I informed them I was out of town and could come by the next month but not before. They tried to convince me to come in right away but I kept on saying I was out of state.
Immediately after I left the lot I called my friend who used to sell cars and told him what happened. He told me they’d reach out to me probably by the end of the week and try to either get me to pay the difference or they would take the car back and give me the right one. His advice was simple and worked: he told me to say I would be out of town for the month and during that month drive as many miles as possible. The higher I went the less valuable the car would be to them. They wouldn’t be able to sell or lease it as new and they’d have to fight me in court to pay the difference.
The next month I show up at the dealership and they explain the mistake and told me I need to either give the car back or pay the correct amount. I then told them I had done almost 2k miles on it and their heads nearly exploded. I told them if I had to give it back then they’d be breaking the contract since the mistake was their fault, not mine and all the paperwork was legit. After an hour or so they finally relented and said I could keep the car. The best part was the cost to buy out my car was for the lower trim so when my lease came to end I bought and sold it for way more than I would have gotten for the correct car. I also sold it during the pandemic when used cars were very valuable so it turned out to be a great investment.
stevenshom42@reddit
The loan may not fund without proof of payment on the lenders side.
According-Floor9009@reddit
This will end up costing you more in the long run than the $1000 you “saved” from the down payment
Brilliant55000@reddit
This happened to me. I told them that I didn’t have the money and if they really wanted it, I would bring the car back.
They called me back and said they waved the down payment.
candycanejellyfish@reddit
If you aren’t in a position to pay the full price in cash then you’re probably not in a position to try and swing your dick around like this.
RobBase40@reddit
What a piece of shit person.
Petaluma666@reddit
Next ULPT - "I made a mistake on paperwork on car sale. I got fired the week before Xmas. My last check got docked the down payment because the AH suggested I took cash. Police involved. Wife is in the hospital. No Xmas for my kids. I hope I don't get evicted. I have the AH's address and credit Info. How can I ruin his life like he ruined mine."
We on Reddit love our updates. The poster didn't say the dealership guy was malicious. Why torment him.
tastyfreeeze69@reddit
You probably don’t have a receipt but a purchase order with your down payment itemized. You still owe.
YerBreathBuffaloFart@reddit
You can either be honorable or dishonorable. Your choice.
Tiako_Ianao@reddit
Not familiar with US law but here it would not stand, as a contract is only valid if the respective obligations are met. Acknowledgement of an obligation is not valid if the obligation is not met AND the wrongful acknowledgement can legitimately be attributed to mistake. Moreover any party acting with deliberate malice voids the contract.
So in this instance not only would the absence of proof of payment be sufficient to deny the claim, no matter the receipt, but the police would void the contract altogether.
On the other hand a professional is presumed in capacity to avoid mistakes in his main function, unless it is obviously an error. So for instance sending back a car purchase contract after adding a couple options without telling it, and having the car salesman sign it, would most likely succeed: the car salesman would have to demonstrate you acted with malice, which would be hard against a simple "he told me to add it myself". Could be worth trying I suppose.
dirtjumperdh@reddit
You would have to forge some sort of bank statement on your end to show "proof" that you paid. Then you could potentially get away with not paying the down payment.
But be aware this is absolutely fraud and is illegal. If you get caught you'll be fucked
No_Dance1739@reddit
You’re going to get billed, there may be extra charges. If you still don’t pay, they are going to repossess your vehicle
Dare2no@reddit
Take this to the legal Sub might have a case.p
Salt-Independent-760@reddit
Fuck scumbag dealers. You have a receipt. To help yourself to sleep, just say it's a "market adjustment". They don't mind doing it themselves. Fuck them.
TolMera@reddit
Probably the tip is to go in on a day when he is not there. Talk to someone who doesn’t know about the situation, and ask for a new receipt 🧾 for the cash you paid…
Present new receipt to old person. I came in Thursday, here’s the receipt 🧾
a_trane13@reddit
I did this once to backdate a move out notice (and avoid paying another months rent).
Not sure it’ll work with car salesmen as they’re kinda inherently slimy.
TolMera@reddit
When you’re willing to lie to people, it tints your world, you believe everyone else is also lieing to you.
a_trane13@reddit
Yeah, much more likely to work with a nice receptionist who’s job is to help people, not swindle them lol
streetsavagee@reddit (OP)
down payment was only $1,000. not serious cash but i’d be happy to keep it…
Firefox_Alpha2@reddit
Hope your conscience is fine with someone losing their job because of your greed
Voyager5555@reddit
Well that's not how any of that works but yes, won't someone please think of the poor car salesmen who are truly the downtrodden among us.
glayde47@reddit
Is “thief” an important part of your identity?
Scout-CM@reddit
$1,000 isn’t worth the headache this is going to bring - I’d pay, but do your thing :)
pixelatedimpressions@reddit
Every finance office has a camera in it for these types if situations. Yeah it'll likely end up with them sueing you, but they'll have evidence to prove you never made the payment. Then you'll have to pay that, your lawyers fees, and since you knew you were in the wrong, possibly their lawyers feed as well
thaneliness@reddit
Lol this happened once to me and they didn’t notice it until doing months end…
Brief-Bobcat-5912@reddit
My stepdaughter boyfriend did something very similar, he ended up with jail time
Voyager5555@reddit
/ r/unexpetedlygrandtheftauto
liacosnp@reddit
You could just do the right thing and pay what you owe. (Cue the downvotes.)
elvismcvegas@reddit
dealerships are pointless middle men, how is not ripping them off the right thing?
Vaeon@reddit
You should have told them that on the phone. "I have a receipt that says I paid you."
ItsJustBarry@reddit
This happened to me a couple years ago. I played dumb for a couple of weeks, but the dealership withheld the paperwork they need to file with the BMV so I couldn't title and plate my car. They ended up getting their money in the end.
overbury@reddit
report the sales person, tell their supervisor you paid cash
HauntedDIRTYSouth@reddit
Who cares. You didn't pay for it. Do you when it is time for you to get married. That is all that matters.
Joyage2021@reddit
Beat on it for the week and give it back.
Cultural-Ebb-1578@reddit
They’ll charge you for use and miles.
Joyage2021@reddit
Send them a bill for parking fees
trustedbyamillion@reddit
Or beat off in it
genericnewlurker@reddit
Invite over Dirty Mike and the boys and have yourself a soup kitchen in the back before returning it
MarvinHeemeyersTank@reddit
Like literally, or do I need to pay a visit to urban dictionary?
Joyage2021@reddit
Slightly “used”
hell2pay@reddit
I fucked the back seat
Lumbergod@reddit
Found Tim Vance.
footballpoetry@reddit
Who’s Tim Vance?
Lumbergod@reddit
I'm an idiot. I meant JD Vance.
Optimal-Narwhal-468@reddit
On it
Gmhowell@reddit
I thought that’s what it meant to ‘go on a test ride’?
Cultural-Ebb-1578@reddit
The deal isn’t funded by the bank and they repo the car and charge you for use and miles on it.
AntiqueBread1337@reddit
All of this is fresh in their mind. Go past and get another receipt (and now a different date). Now you have two receipts and two different days. Wait a year or whatever and then make a fuss about one of your payments never having been applied. Odds are at that point you’ll be dealing with different people and they’ll have to go by all of your receipts.
EnglishBeatsMath@reddit
Honestly I'd just ask for a discount for the trouble. If they give you a discount then you save both money and hassle.
Unlikely-Act-7950@reddit
Theft by deception is what they will prosecute it as. dealerships audio and videos all f&I transaction. And they will not process the paperwork till you submit payment.
OlderGuyWatching@reddit
And not inform the customer that it’s being recorded? I don’t think so.
Unlikely-Act-7950@reddit
Who said anything about not informing anyone? It's in the stack of paperwork you signed. Not sure how much vehicles you have purchased in Pennsylvania but every dealership I have worked at it's standard practice.
OlderGuyWatching@reddit
Never purchased a vehicle in PA. I've bought vehicles in many other states and never been told about recording. Maybe they did and didn't advise me but I doubt it. That's why PA is in the shape it's in.
ilike2makemoney@reddit
Their offices have cameras for this exact reason. No chance
phalangepatella@reddit
How much of down payment are you fucking around with? This will highly affect the “find out” part.
izzyk@reddit
Probably a felony’s worth
Theycallmeahmed_@reddit
Op said it's 1K, got me all hyped up for nothing :-/
Devincc@reddit
1k down payment for a car?! That note is gonna suck nuts
PoliticalDestruction@reddit
Seems like the amount they’d pay a lawyer to write up a lawsuit and hope you don’t respond so you get a default judgement..
pretty_in_pink_1986@reddit
It’s called integrity.
Inside-Protection-97@reddit
Car sales here. You said it’s a down payment, so you’re getting a loan. The dealership simply won’t send it to the bank to fund, then you’re driving around in a car they’ll report stolen.
tadpole256@reddit
Just know you aren’t screwing over the dealership, they will dock the finance guys pay. You’ll be screwing him in particular
LarryCrabCake@reddit
Repo guys dream of this scenario
If you want to keep the car, hide it in a locked garage and never take it out until you actually make that payment
Actual_Doughnut9248@reddit
This happened to a friend of mine - they ended up adding it to his monthly payments.
DuchessOfAquitaine@reddit
Too late now. All you can do is go pay or choose to fuck around and find out.
CasualDebris@reddit
You signed paperwork. They're not just gonna go "whoopsie I guess he got us" what are you 10?
HumbleCiragee@reddit
Don’t pay, screw them. I’d make them wait and wait till they collected. Otherwise don’t answer phone, the transaction is done. Peace!
hettuklaeddi@reddit
biggest issue these days is cameras. they probably have a close up of you for the whole interaction, and if you push back, they would pull the tape for review, i’d bet
matthewofwicks@reddit
Same thing happened to me a couple years ago. I just paid it.
gashufferdude@reddit
Do they have cameras in the finance area?
NotSmartJustNotDumb@reddit
I think the question should be, Are you comfortable with getting the salesman who helped you fired over this?
Loud-Difficulty7860@reddit
Enjoy the car until it gets repossessed
jamoe1@reddit
You aren’t getting away with this. period. There will be cameras that prove you didn’t hand over cash. They will not fuck around. Remember these people fuck people over for a living. They gonna get that cash or the car back.
Dense-Tangerine7502@reddit
You messed up when you answered the phone
antilumin@reddit
On a related note, I received a check in the mail from the dealership after I bought a car. No idea why, so I called them and asked wtf. They said to go ahead and cash it, so I did. A few weeks later they called me up to say they screwed up and needed the money back. I told them to kick rocks. They never followed up after that.
BrotherNature98420@reddit
They’ll probably either sue you or not process your state paperwork til it’s collected, but I mean finance is supposed to be on top of that stuff what should happen is whatever amount was missed should be taken out of the F&I managers paycheck. I’ve had a few coworkers have that happen and they never made the mistake again 🤷♂️
acidbluedod@reddit
They'll eventually write it off. As a dealership employee who has forgotten to collect down payment, I can say it happens.
drsmith48170@reddit
OP will get sued; not by the dealership but by the bank or finance company, whom at this moment actually have a lien on the vehicle as it is financed.
The down payment goes to them, and they will make sure they get their money one way or another. In fact, what they could do, since it just happened, is cancel the existing contract and send you another one with different terms - and if you do agree you lose your vehicle (they will repo it) and send you a bill for difference of vehicle value at auction vs the loan amount.
Problem is most people don’t understand a car dealer doesn’t actually own their inventory; a financial institution that has the floor plan for the dealership owns the inventory.
emzirek@reddit
I was once checking out of a hotel but had not yet paid when I was giving a receipt saying paid in full..
I basically ran ..
A free hotel stay on a beach no problem..
Phoirkas@reddit
Sell it to a chop shop and then report it as stolen. You can potentially work in some insurance fraud too and get reimbursed by them, as well as get the chop shop payment, and tell the dealership to eat it since it was never your car and they gave it to you in error. You’ll either wind up in jail or with enough cash to pay for your next car in full plus more. 🤷♂️
Greenteawizard87@reddit
How does one go around finding a chop shop? Is it really as easy as walking in and saying “hey I have this car I need cash for. You can have it just give me some money”? Seems like the more people who know the more you will get caught.
JumpInTheSun@reddit
Its the garage full of cars without a name or a front desk that will patch your tires for free just to get rid if you.
Greenteawizard87@reddit
Actually there IS one of those in town. No sign, always “busy”
PKSkriBBLeS@reddit
Drive to Albania 🇦🇱
GeoHog713@reddit
No. You have to walk and yell, "Is this the illegal chop shop??!!??".
If you ask, they HAVE to tell you. That's chop shop code
burghblast@reddit
Don't forget to introduce yourself with a chipper, "Hello, fellow car theives!"
ultimate_sorrier@reddit
Stand on the corner of a busy intersection spinning an arrow sign thingie and dancing.
You will get a chop shopper for sure.
cyrusthemarginal@reddit
Look for facebook posts asking for cars for mexico, running or not, title or not.
Rude_Ladder_4487@reddit
Cash is king
dbrmn73@reddit
Some dealerships video record the finance process...
mitrolle@reddit
So what? He handed the money to the dealer beforehand, after the test drive, in the car. Luckily, he got the receipt for it.
oIIIIIIlo@reddit
There is no way that you have a receipt indicating that your down payment was received. You might have a purchase order/contract that "reflects" the down payment, but not a document that indicates that any money changed hands.
Read the purchase order (and the contract if your financed with a finance company) somewhere on there it will state that it is contingent on a few things.....1) receiving monies you agreed to pay 2) qualifying for any rebates you received 3) signing over the title to your trade in (if you traded)
If you traded a vehicle in, don't expect for any payoff to be made until you pay your down payment.
The F&I guy made a mistake and forgot to collect the down payment, it doesn't absolve you from having to pay it. It's kind of a douche business move to try to get out of it.
jony7@reddit
I mean if you have a receipt and claim you paid in cash I don't think there's anything they can do about it, unless they have CCTV footage of the whole thing (highly unlikely)
mitrolle@reddit
He handed the money outside, cameras didn't catch it. He knew something was fishy, but trusted the dealer. Luckily, he got the receipt.
PremierEditing@reddit
It's very likely that they have camera footage
JumpInTheSun@reddit
Just out it off for a week, "yeah ill be there tomorrow. Sorry something came up i can come by in 3 days." Etc and after that week the footage will automatically be deleted.
nyrb001@reddit
Of people sitting at a table yes, but casino level cameras showing how paperwork / cash moves across the table is unlikely.
Slaviiigolf@reddit
Why would yall recommend he do any of those things? Then turn around and go through the dealership experience once again? Yall wild.
No_Vacation_2686@reddit
Y’all \^are\^ wild; yes.
Slaviiigolf@reddit
And having deep knowledge of car dealers, they won’t process your tag and title, then will do a flat cancel on the financing contract. If it gets to it, they’ll tell you to come by and collect all season mats, when you park, they block your car in. Or they’ll order a tow truck to go pick up the car. Or they’ll report the car stolen last case scenario. Source: deep knowledge
JumpInTheSun@reddit
Only morons finance through the stealership.
Slaviiigolf@reddit
Only morons don’t compare rates from their credit unions and the manufacturers before deciding. The people who got 0% for 60 months or 2.9% for 72 months aren’t morons
BigMikeInAustin@reddit
Y'all be wildin' out. No cap. Bet.
Sunset_Superman77@reddit
Fo shizzle?
PoliticalDestruction@reddit
Fo rizzle actually
jonny5isalive1@reddit
I had this happen once and my wife was worried about it but we had the receipt showing i paid so there wasn't anything they could do. I did finance through a different bank so they could care less if I paid the down payment or not so basically I just got a discount on the price of the car. But yes all in all nothing happened about it.
BitwiseDestroyer@reddit
You mean that they couldn’t care less
HotCarl169@reddit
No, they could care more.
yourefunny@reddit
Yanks always get that one wrong! Some funny standup about it.
Meatloaf_Regret@reddit
How do you know their level of care? Maybe they could care just a tad less.
Mission_Albatross916@reddit
Just a scooch less, they could’ve cared
alexxela123456@reddit
I fear we've already lost this one to semantic drift.
Kinda like "overlook".
FJB444@reddit
if you have a receipt that you paid cash, then you have proof you paid cash. Don't pay twice for something you already paid for.
Character-Yak6405@reddit
They wouldn’t help you so don’t help them.
JupiterSkyFalls@reddit
As long as you don't admit to anything via text or email...they'd have to take you to small claims court with some CCTV footage showing you didn't pay. I'd show up in person, ask to speak outside away from cameras and possible audio recording devices) and just say since it's your mistake, how bout I make the down payment in installations? The worst they can do is say no and threaten to sue you. But since this is ULPT- I'd also make some threats of my own, like letting dudes boss know he was that irresponsible or contacting the local news outlets see what they make of such shoddy business practices.
tommya1994@reddit
Why do you think they can't record u outside?
JupiterSkyFalls@reddit
If you walk away from the building even if you're being recorded there's way less likely a chance they will be able to hear any audio, and most businesses don't bother with audio outside in any case. Even if they did, traffic, wind, talking low could hinder this. Better safe than sorry was my philosophy.
Exact_Programmer_658@reddit
If you have a receipt for payment then I wouldn't have took that phone call. You could show proof of payment and there's nothing they can do. It will however probably cost him his job.
PremierEditing@reddit
Honest answer about what happens if you don't pay - anything from a repossession and consequent huge hit to your credit score to criminal charges, depending on what state you're in.
That_Understanding19@reddit
Pay it. It’s some poor fella that will end up getting it in the neck from his bosses and potentially fired, and the good feeling from saving some money will soon be outweighed by guilt.
kawaiian@reddit
The anxiety isn’t worth it and they’re going to get it back
SignificantBad2386@reddit
Bad juju, just pay. You were going to anyway
916calikarl@reddit
You did make the payment, you have a receipt that proves you did. You might be able to get away with it, but Karma is a bitch.
kushtopherrobhisass@reddit
When I bought my most recent car, I told the associate I would be able to pay half of the down payment today and half next week when I got paid. Square deal we sign off, but I notice as I hand him the money and he types away in his computer he wrote down-payment paid in full so and so date. He locked it in, and we went on with our days.
The next week comes by, and they give me a call, and I feign surprise and ask them to double check the paperwork. I never heard back from them. Also, I never got that free car cleaning either.
inkslingerben@reddit
Don't answer the phone from the dealership or unknown numbers.
seiddk22@reddit
We went to a Toyota dealer and the finance guy forgot to ask us for our $1000 deposit. Never heard from them. Never paid it. The next time we got a car they almost did it again! But he remembered at the last moment. We got lucky once!
elisejones14@reddit
My bf who works at a dealership but not in sales or tech said the car would most likely be repossessed. I’d go in and pay tbh.
TheFamilyMafia@reddit
You got the receipt so there isn't shit they can do about it. All you need to do now is pay your note and you are good.
glavent@reddit
The dealership will not process the registration of the car with the DMV and will report the car stolen. You don’t want to go to war with a dealership who’s backed by a major corporation. They will stick lawyers on you and you’ll end up paying more in lawyer fees than what your down payment was.
I say you go in and ask for a few free oil changes in exchange for the payment because it was an inconvenience to get back to the dealership
escapefromelba@reddit
If you don’t show up or pay the down payment, here are the potential consequences:
Dealer May Void the Sale: If the paperwork doesn’t show the down payment was made, the dealership might try to cancel the sale. This could lead to repossession, which would require legal action on their part.
Repossession Risks: If they repossess the car, it could negatively affect your credit and you might have to cover additional fees for the repossession.
Credit Implications: If they report an unpaid balance or claim you still owe money, it could harm your credit score, even if the dispute is eventually resolved.
Legal Action: If they believe payment is owed, they might pursue legal action, leading to a lengthy and potentially expensive court process.
If your paperwork and receipt clearly show the payment was made, you’re probably fine, but it’s a good idea to clear things up with the dealership to avoid any further issues. Consider reaching out or getting legal advice if you're unsure.
springfifth@reddit
AI comment please read responsibly
inn0cent-bystander@reddit
It's also possible that the starting loan will now include what they didn't down pay on. OP still has to make the payments.
If the dealership tries to fight it, OP /MIGHT/ be able to lawyer up and show the receipt. "Says right here that I paid it!"
GnPQGuTFagzncZwB@reddit
Now is the time to negotiate that discount.... We all saw you hand over the cash. Just tell the owner of the dealership to ask the reddit guys. We will tell him for you. That guy was beyond a total asshole not to pay the phone fee out of his own pocket. He deserves your telling him to fuck off.
Piddy3825@reddit
...but I paid the guy in cash??? lol