Does Linux run almost everything?

Most ATMs use Windows. Many medical equipment, business servers and cash registers use Windows too. Old machinery is usually controlled by OS2, DOS and Windows again.

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Nelo999@reddit

That is a blatant lie.

Linux and FreeRTOS are the most popular embedded operating systems in the world.

Especially when it comes to medical systems and cash registers.

Most of the newer ATM's run Linux as well.

Nearly all CT, MRI, PET scan machines use Linux.

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At first I was just sceptical (well maybe it’s true for the outdated ATMs in NA but most of the modern ones run Linux) but then you totally lost me at “business servers”. Unless you’re implying cupboard PCs running AD or Exchange.

Windows Server share is in decline for over a decade and according to some metrics hit single digit level.

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earthman34@reddit

You would be wildly incorrect.

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hopingforabetterpast@reddit

Linux completely dominates the server market worldwide. What are you talking about?

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earthman34@reddit

I didn't say anything about the "worldwide server market", whatever you think that is.

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hopingforabetterpast@reddit

Tbf neither did I but that's besides the point which is that, for some definition of "almost everything", I don't think "wildly incorrect" is fair.

It's still incorrect of course.The server market is the most significant market in computational impact in the context of programmable machines. If considering volume that's probably going to be embedded systems, which again is a market Linux dominates, with a still growing market share.

So, depending on how we may interpret it, I wouldn't call it wildly incorrect.

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earthman34@reddit

A lot depends on what you define as a "computer" or a "server". Most data I've seen shows overall Linux server market share at around 60-65%, Windows at 30-35%, and Unix derivatives in the remaining 5-10%. If you're looking at enterprise-class commercial and government servers the picture is a lot different, with the ratio basically reversed, and Windows around 65%. If you're looking at computing devices as a whole in the world market, Android and iOS are by far the highest market share, followed by Windows, MacOS, and Linux a distant 5th with around 4-5%.

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hopingforabetterpast@reddit

I agree.

Do you have a source for those numbers? Windows having >50% market share on enterprise commercial servers is very surprising to me.

Note that Android is technically Linux and I suspect we can safely assume OP also uses (wrongly) the term to refer to unix and unix-like systems as a whole (even iOS would qualify in this case).

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earthman34@reddit

Having been inside many small/medium businesses over the years, I can tell you that Linux penetration is fairly poor/non-existent, and even MacOS is fairly limited, even at this point. This market segment is heavily invested in the Microsoft ecosystem (Windows/Office/Exchange/Outlook/Teams) because it all works so well together. They're also heavily invested in commercial and custom applications that are exclusively targeted at Windows-based systems, they can't function without them. This heavily discourages any innovation. I don't do freelance IT anymore, so I'm somewhat out of the loop, but in my opinion Linux fans tend to seriously misunderstand and underestimate the level of market penetration that Microsoft has at places like schools, hospitals, police departments, government centers, court systems, etc., places that tend to stick with "what works", and not be casting around for other solutions. Once again, it's not the OS that's the issue. It's the value-added aspect of the millions of applications that these organizations depend on, that are all Windows-centric. Some of the places I did work for were absolutely dependent on one or two applications that essentially ran their entire business. There was no point in trying to "sell" Linux to them, because without the specialized applications it was useless...aside from the nightmare it would be trying to train dozens of barely computer-literate people to use something else entirely.

And of course, a lot of Linux fans will pull the "Android is really Linux" rabbit out of the hat, too, or even claim that MacOS/iOS is a "Unix" which is "just like Linux", etc., etc. None of that is true. MacOS/iOS is a completely proprietary GUI and application environment running on a kernel that's as radically different from Linux as you can get. Android is a distant fork of Linux that's distributed as a complete system, the architecture of which is tightly controlled by Google. Linux is a kernel controlled by an independent group that is monolithic and used as a core of many different operating systems that are not necessarily even compatible. Trying to lump Android into Linux or MacOS into Unix is extremely disingenuous.

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candidateforhumanity@reddit

How is it extremely disingenuous to say that Android is Linux?

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earthman34@reddit

I just explained it. Linux is a kernel. You could drop a different kernel in Android and it would still be Android. Get it?

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candidateforhumanity@reddit

No.

Android is not a distant fork of linux, it uses the mainline kernel, not a permanently diverged fork. Google maintains some Android specific patches and drivers which are close to it, and many Android kernel changes actually get merged back upstream! Android devices typically run kernel versions that are only a few versions behind (or sometimes ahead of) the latest mainline kernel. Android is more Linux than some of the most popular distros.

You could drop a different kernel

Yup, if wasn't Linux then it wouldn't be Linux. But it is, so it is?

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earthman34@reddit

Keep telling yourself that. The current Android GKI has at least a hundred thousand lines differentiating it from the mainline LTS Linux kernel. Older versions are much more divergent. If they weren't, you could just load a generic Linux image on any smartphone, same as you boot any PC with a generic Linux image, but you can't.

Direct from Google: "The Android kernel is essentially a forked and heavily modified version of the Linux kernel..."

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candidateforhumanity@reddit

If they weren't, you could just load a generic Linux image on any smartphone, same as you boot any PC with a generic Linux image, but you can't.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Android does use a forked and heavily modified version of the Linux kernel.

Multiple Linux distros use a forked and heavily modified version of the Linux kernel.

Android doesn't use a distant fork, it keeps up with mainline and actively contributes to it.

Android is Linux.

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earthman34@reddit

If Android is Linux, why isn't it called Linux, like the thousand other linuxes? Lol. If you dropped a different kernel into Android, it would still be Android.

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candidateforhumanity@reddit

There aren't "a thousand other linuxes". There are operating systems that use the Linux kernel. Most of them don't use "Linux" in their name. Some work on PCs, some don't. Some work on phones, some don't.

All operating systems that use the Linux kernel are what we call Linux, because Linux is the kernel and nothing else.

Android uses te Linux kernel. Android is Linux.

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earthman34@reddit

Google says you're a liar.

"Android is a separate operating system that is based on a heavily modified version of the Linux kernel.
While it uses the Linux kernel as its foundation to manage hardware, it is not considered a Linux distribution. A typical Linux distribution (like Ubuntu or Fedora) includes the Linux kernel, along with the GNU userland—a collection of tools, libraries, and utilities that make up the rest of the operating system.
Android, however, replaces most of the traditional Linux software stack with its own components. For example, instead of the standard GNU C library (glibc), Android uses its own C library called Bionic. It also has a unique application framework and runtime environment (Android Runtime or ART) designed to run apps written primarily in Java and Kotlin, which is a major departure from how applications are built and run on traditional Linux distributions."

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candidateforhumanity@reddit

I never said it was a Linux distro, I said it's Linux.

It's running the Linux kernel, that's the only thing Linux means. And that's what this thread is about.

Many, MANY so called Linux distros deviate from the common GNU/Linux stack (I'm writing this from Void Linux, a distro that's independent from both GNU and glibc).

"Distro" is not a well defined term, so I avoid it. I personally think it's weird to call Android a Linux distro but I won't correct someone who does. If you go to distrowatch you can see many of the top most used Linux distros are not GNU/Linux.

You are also making the same mistake you accused "linux fans" of making, which is calling Linux to something other than the kernel. Many people make the same mistake of assuming Linux is an alternative OS to Windows or MacOS, and that's why you'll get that sort of answer from AI, which is everything but a reliable source of truth.

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earthman34@reddit

Bullshit. A Linux kernel by itself is nothing. It's an engine without a car. Powerless to do anything. The user-facing environment and APIs in Android have nothing to do with Linux, and Linux apps and Android apps are not interchangeable. The very fact you need an emulator to run Android on a Linux system shows the fallacy in your logic. You sound like Darl McBride claiming Linux is Unix because of 4 lines of deprecated code buried in the mishmash of the Linux kernel.

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candidateforhumanity@reddit

Ok.

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hopingforabetterpast@reddit

Again, I agree. But we need to be perceptive about the context of OP's question.

I'm not sure what the Linux fans rant about, I'm just curious about the source for your numbers.

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earthman34@reddit

Statista, mainly. You'll get all kinds of numbers if you search. There's so damn many AI aggregators now it's hard to know what's genuine and what's slanted by marketing.

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ahferroin7@reddit

Very incorrect, but only if you truly mean EVERYTHING.

A vast majority of consumer IoT devices and many routers do in fact run Linux (or more often Android or some Android derivative). And that is what most people will think of given your title statement.

But plenty of things don’t run Linux at all:

The integrated security processors found on Intel, AMD, and most modern ARM chips all run their own custom OS, none of which are likely to be based on Linux (though Intel’s ME seesm to run something that looks a lot like MINIX 3).
The integrated circuitry found in SIM cards, smart cards, many passports, most bank cards, some hardware security keys runs a barebones Java environment (yes, seriously Java) of all things, without any underlying ‘OS’.
Apple systems all run Darwin (a complex mix of NextSTEP, Mach, and BSD) with some extra stuff on top.
MS Xbox hardware runs Hyper-V with a stripped down copy of Windows using a custom 10-foot UI running as the control domain, with the games running in isolated VMs with a specialized OS kernel.
Sony Playstation 4/5 systems run FreeBSD derivatives.
Nintendo Switch also uses a BSD derivative.
Large amounts of network-hardware run custom, vendor-specific, OSes (Cisco IOS is bespoke, Juniper JUNOS is a BSD derivative, there are plenty of others).
A lot of Japanese embedded devices are running TRON based platforms.
A lot of spacecraft are running VxWorks.
A lot of avionics systems and independent embedded components of spacecraft use RTEMS (and I’m given to understand that it’s also very popular for industrial control systems).
QNX has been and still is widely used in the automotive industry, both for infotainment systems and in things like engine control computers.
IBM’s AIX, z/OS, 4690 OS, OS/2, and i (yes, ‘IBM i’ is seriously the name of a real OS) are all alive and well and actively used, and I strongly suspect that plenty of their other platforms I don’t know about are too (IBM’s support lifecycles often operate on geological time scales compared to most other software).
Many many other platforms I haven’t mentioned (big names to look at include L4, RIOT, FreeRTOS, eCos, μC/OS, and PikeOS) are still actively used in a number of places.

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Lazy-Term9899@reddit

IBM z/OS offers zLinux environment. Debian, Alpine and Red Hat could run in s390 archtecture. Only for you knowledge.

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cyber-punky@reddit

> Red Hat could run in s390 archtecture.

Its still supported, RHEL builds s390 and s390x packages even today.

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cyber-punky@reddit

Downvoted, even though I have to regularly fix builds for kernel on s390 and s390x for RH.

What would I know.

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ahferroin7@reddit

But z/OS is not Linux. It’s not even UNIX. And it is still very actively used for it’s OS/360 and OS/390 compatibility, because the type of people who thought COBOL was a good idea tend to be very resistent to change.

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PeriodicallyYours@reddit

I work on a piece of industrial equpment that runs Windows Embeddable. When the program crashes you can see Win95 with Wordpad and Solitaire right on the machine display. What a shame it comes without Doom.

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H9419@reddit

I'm pretty sure more than half of the ATM where I live is running either XP (server 2003) or windows 7 embedded.

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p0uringstaks@reddit

you possibly are Australian and yes they are

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H9419@reddit

Close, Hong Kong with HSBC

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Active-Cut-7644@reddit

The place I live in Most of not all the ATMs now use Ubuntu or Debian as their main OS the place I am talking is City of Mumbai and I have even seen the back ends of the ATMs it uses either a web application or a custom build bank application made specifically for the Linux distro. But they surely used Windows XP for a long time.

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gadgetroid@reddit

and I have even seen the back ends of the ATMs it uses either a web application or a custom build bank application

That doesn't sound safe at all. I'd just put my trust behind a technology like UPI if I'm being totally honest.

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thrakkerzog@reddit

For a while, the billboards in Manhattan were OS X.

https://i.imgur.com/PsHa4PV.jpeg

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quiyo@reddit

lol XD

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thrakkerzog@reddit

Here's the billboard now

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Shortydesbwa@reddit

Omg Behind you, feds are coming

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quiyo@reddit

ok thanks

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quiyo@reddit

one day i seemed a metro digital signages runing cmd in windows xp embedded

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fellipec@reddit

At least until 2010s Banco do Brasil ATMs run OS/2. Dunno nowadays, but I wouldn't be surprised if is still the case.

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starlevel01@reddit

Might've moved to one of the OS/2 derivatives like ArcaOS.

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fellipec@reddit

Searched and looks like the migrated to Linux but earlier than I thought, they started the process in 2006. I'd sure it was after 2010. Maybe they don't finished until it. The distro was Red Hat.

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moopet@reddit

All the self-checkout machines I've seen, and the kiosks in gyms (which I used to work on) were running Windows XP as of about 4 years ago.

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harpajeff@reddit

This is true. I used to work for Diebold and all their ATMs ran Windows. You are also right about the versions as I know that many still run out of date windows versions.

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cam19L@reddit

The large majority of arcade machines run Windows or Android. When DanceDanceRevolution is booting, you can even see the Windows 7 wallpaper followed by a Command Prompt window where it loads the game as a driver.

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wsippel@reddit

Many earlier PC based arcade boards used to run Linux, but eventually switched to Windows. Very early x86 PCBs, like Seibu Kaihatsu’s Raiden series, ran DOS.

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sharp-calculation@reddit

I was so crestfallen when I saw a windows XP logo as a tech was rebooting an arcade game about 10 years ago. He told me that most of them that he owned ran Windows of some flavor.

Older arcade games ran directly on the hardware and were real pieces of custom engineering.

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cam19L@reddit

Older ones, yes! From the 70s to the 80s, most arcade games were bespoke. Some of them even used military-grade hardware designed for things like flight simulations and space travel, see: the Model 2. Once more powerful home console hardware rolled around, though, is when you started to see less unique hardware. Notably: Konami's System 573, Namco System 11 and System 12, Taito's FX-1A/B and Gnet were all Playstation-based, the Atomiswave and Naomi1/2 were both Dreamcast-based, the Triforce was just a pumped up Gamecube, and the Chihiro was the same for the Xbox (original). That's not to say that other things weren't PC-based at the same time; Hydro Thunder was notably just a PC running, IIRC, some form of DOS with a Voodoo card. Android's become more common with the advent of touchscreen mobile ports and games like StepmaniaX, but the main offender in the space ever since the late 2000s has just been normal Windows Embedded, the only notable exception to which I can think of is just Tekken Tag Tournament 2, which ran on a modified PS3, which is really funny, because you can see the XMB for about 5 seconds when it reboots.

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gesis@reddit

I collect arcade machines. Can confirm, the majority of classic arcade machines ran bespoke software on bespoke hardware.

Modern Raw Thrills machines are just Windows PCs.

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da_apz@reddit

I've worked as an IT manager in a CNC milling plant and a lot of large machines ran an odd mixture of Windows, Linux and DOS. The DOS based were always my favorite: very easy to resurrect from a total disaster. The larger machines had Windows based user interface, but ran Linux or a *nix under the hood.

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lonesometroubador@reddit

Sorta, often the displays run Windows CE, but the PLC that actually operates equipment is running a Linux kernel. Some newer displays actually run Windows 11, with a virtual machine running Windows CE to get around the security issues of Windows CE without having to actually build a new runtime.

Source - I am an Automation Engineer

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Samsagax@reddit

Some old KUKA robots came with that. It is hilarious.

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Traabant@reddit

I used to work for system integrator of those embedded computers We had process of burn-in where we ran some stress test over night. But sum computers we are old enough that we 'had' to use Wolfenstein 3d .

Anyway here's a video of us testing like 15 of them 😁 https://imgur.com/a/GPhKXDg

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PeriodicallyYours@reddit

I once had a look inside the controller block and it seems it's got a pretty decent computer inside. It has USB ports and, no wonder, I can plug a keyboard in and switch to the Task Manager. I see no obstacles for running Doom for Win95, I got spare ports for flash stick.

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Asleeper135@reddit

A lot of spacecraft are running VxWorks.

A lot of avionics systems and independent embedded components of spacecraft use RTEMS (and I’m given to understand that it’s also very popular for industrial control systems).

We almost never have any access to the underlying OS, so it's hard for me to actually verify this, but I've always been led to believe that the vast majority of industrial controllers are also based on VxWorks.

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ragsofx@reddit

I've worked with WCDMA nodeB's which ran a mixture of VxWorks and Linux, the Linux stuff was a debian derivative.

I've also worked with carrier grade Ethernet devices (routers, switches and DSLAMs) that are VxWorks as well. There is always a mixture of ASICs and FPGAs that have the secret sauce that makes the large amounts of bandwidth possible.

I got to work with some photonic switching data transmission equipment that ran Linux under the hood.

It seems the trend has been to use Linux more as time has gone by.

Usually these types of systems are very complex and some of the cards will have its own operating systems. So one router might have 3-4 cards running its own operating system that communicates with a controller over the back plane.

For all the systems I've designed Linux is usually my first pick.

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koko775@reddit

FreeRTOS runs on a bunch of microcontrollers ie esp32’s and rp2040’s

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fellipec@reddit

Interesting. I assumed those microcontrollers didn't run an OS at all, just whatever you write and burn on its memory

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PythonFuMaster@reddit

FreeRTOS isn't a general purpose OS like Linux, Windows, or Mac. It's designed around devices requiring absolute real time control (RTOS stands for real time operating system). In ordinary operating systems, the kernel is entirely free to preempt any thread, which is what gives the illusion of running hundreds of tasks at once. FreeRTOS gives the programmer much more fine grained control over when a task should be preempted, or they can willingly give up control if they have no more work to do.

With an RTOS, a programmer has the ability to schedule tasks such that they are guaranteed to run at a fixed time and take exactly a certain amount of time to complete. Such control allows the device to control things that are timing sensitive, like a self driving car's sensors (you really don't want your person detecting lidar to be preempted by the car's infotainment system, a contrived example but it gets the idea across).

Finally, usually you compile the RTOS with your application together, you don't normally slap an RTOS in flash and run the application from an SD card like you might do with an SBC (at least with work I've done)

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fellipec@reddit

So it is just slapped in place by the Arduino IDE when you compile the project?

I assumed it added libraries to the projects run, but never assumed people called that an OS (but of course, by the book definition, is)

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PythonFuMaster@reddit

No, Arduino doesn't use any OS at all. An RTOS still provides services like task management and scheduling, Arduino just gives you a standard superloop with no easy way to spawn additional tasks. With Arduino, your code doesn't sit on top of anything else besides a basic runtime, while with operating systems you write your application as a task or set of tasks and delegate low level scheduling and manipulation of them to the operating system.

Not all embedded devices run an RTOS, in fact you only really need one when you both need real time control and the ability to spawn multiple tasks. An Arduino will do just fine if you only have one thing for it to do, but will quickly crumble when you have a dozen

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fellipec@reddit

Ah okay now that makes more sense to me. You said the ESP32 and I'm more used to see them being programmed with the Arduino IDE for the same things we would use a regular Arduino, but with WIFI.

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monocasa@reddit

FreeRTOS is arguably not really an OS, so that's still kind of true.

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koko775@reddit

Those threads ain’t scheduling themselves :)

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fellipec@reddit

I need to research more about them

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ouyawei@reddit

FreeRTOS is just a scheduler, for something more comparable to Linux see Zephyr or NuttX

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koko775@reddit

Correct, but OP did mention FreeRTOS so I thought I'd add that context.

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ChickittyChicken@reddit

Green Hills Integrity RTOS runs on avionic platforms.

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ilep@reddit

Theoretically, Linux /could/ run on many of those mentioned but manufacturer has chosen to use another OS. For example, there is Asahi Linux which runs on the newer Macs, but Apple doesn't ship their system with Linux.

So if the question is if Linux /can/ run on a system there are still systems that are not supported due to being too old or the system does not have enough RAM or missing a necessary driver or some such.

There is even Linux for IBM z mainframes which you mentioned above.

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ahferroin7@reddit

While this is true, it’s also important to keep in mind that just because something can run Linux does not mean it could do what you need it to with it running Linux. z/OS is a prime example actually, most of why it still gets used is legacy application code written for OS/360, and Linux quite simply can’t run that unless you want to jump through hoops to run OS/360 itself under emulation on Linux.

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ilep@reddit

Main thing about the mainframes is that they are made to compatbile with systems made in the 1960s. Yes, they run COBOL, there is a lot of it and the financial/insurance companies rather pay for the support than risk converting it to something else.

Hardware in mainframes is usually geared toward IO rather calculation performance and there is addon hardware for things like crypto-accelerators (which Linux supports, btw). There have been odd designs in these (like IBM had 48-bit CPUs in AS/400 before switching to 64-bit), but mostly they are made to be used through firmware rather than addressing hardware directly. Much like the very early IBM PCs were designed to be used.

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Artificial_Alex@reddit

Will add radios for flying drones run something like EdgeTX or Crossfire

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rogersaintjames@reddit

MS Xbox hardware runs Hyper-V with a stripped down copy of Windows using a custom 10-foot UI running as the control domain, with the games running in isolated VMs with a specialized OS kernel.

I did not know this. What a goddamn nightmare. Poor bastards who have to develop that.

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ahferroin7@reddit

It’s honestly not that bad if you look at it objectively, and because the control domain is just a mostly standard NT kernel instead of some custom monstrosity like was needed on the 360, they were likely able to leverage internal expertise to help quite a bit.

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caa_admin@reddit

10-foot UI

Is this an expression? Love your reply btw.

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ahferroin7@reddit

Is this an expression?

It’s the generic term for UI’s designed specifically for usage on televisions, but more generically for any UI where the user is expected to be interacting with it from across the room with an input device that provides much more limited control than the typical keyboard and mouse (or touchscreen) you would expect on a computer. Historically they were primarily used for HTPC systems (Kodi is an easy example of a FOSS project that primarily uses one for this reason), streaming media players, set-top boxes, and smart TVs, but these days most game consoles (as well as Steam’s Big Picture mode and the default ‘modern’ UI for RetroArch), even handheld ones like the Steam Deck or Switch, also use them because the same design considerations that go into making a UI work well with the limited input options on a remote control also work just as well for handling the limited input options on a game controller.

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caa_admin@reddit

Thanks for explaining.

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Gent_Kyoki@reddit

Man sim cards running on java took me for a doozy

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natermer@reddit

At this point it is a lot easier to list the things that don't run Linux then the things that do.

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fellipec@reddit

I'm bumping the average fam! 3 desktops, 1 server, 3 laptops, 1 netbook, 2 routers, 2 audience measurement devices (ok not mine but is here) 3 Kindles, 3 Echos, 1 Raspberry PI, and 4 android phones if we want to count that. I'm not counting my Epson printer because I couldn't figure out wht it run.

23 devices.

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inkjod@reddit

... and possibly your TV, too!

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fellipec@reddit

It's LG WebOS, AFAIK not Linux (or its?)

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inkjod@reddit

It's Linux, and with interesting provenance!

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fellipec@reddit

Interesting! I remember it being a project from Palm, and because of this I infer it was based on the old PalmOS.

So, 24 devices in total.

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ahferroin7@reddit

Server and consumer usage is mostly dominated by Linux.

But true embedded usage is still dominated by other platforms, either for legacy reasons (such as TRON support) or because Linux historically simply could not handle the use case well enough (such as most things that run RTEMS or VxWorks). It will be interesting to see how that usage shifts over the next decade or more (because that is the timescale involved with this type of stuff) now that the PREEMPT_RT patches have been merged.

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chrillefkr@reddit

God damn, that's a good answer. I'd like to point out that probably many of those machines could run Linux though, but aren't. But that wasn't in the scope of the question.

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LetterheadAny9427@reddit

Yeah that was not what the question was at all

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FairyToken@reddit

True. I still love the amount of information given.

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LetterheadAny9427@reddit

Im talking ab the guy that felt the need add to a perfect response that the machines could run on linux but arent acting like he made a huge discovery

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chrillefkr@reddit

Dude, you won't believe what I just figured out! Some machines can run Linux!!! Isn't that awesome?? I made this huge discovery, and have to tell everyone! Especially OP since they didn't ask specifically about it! /s

Seriously though, is my comment incorrect? Should I remove it?

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LetterheadAny9427@reddit

Lol do u not realize thats how you sound? Yes its incorrect and unrelated

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chrillefkr@reddit

What part of my statement is incorrect and unrelated? You sound like a grumpy ass hat 😁

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not_a_novel_account@reddit

No they couldn't?

Linux has wide platform support for a single operating system but huge swaths of embedded hardware doesn't even support enough memory to host the kernel, much less meet the other platform requirements.

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rautenkranzmt@reddit

Neat sidenote regarding Networking Equipment: That used to be true. it's not really anymore.

While classic IOS is bespoke, Cisco's IOS XE, IOS XR, and NX-OS are all linux based (now). Meraki firmware is also linux based.

Juniper's original JunOS is BSD running a bunch of custom closed bits to talk to the ASICs and performing specialty functions. However, JunOS Evolved is LInux based, and the SSR and Mist firmwares are also Linux based.

You see a prevalence of tons of network hardware moving towards or always having run linux for ease of development. (Extreme XOS, Arista EOS, Nokia SR-OS, various forms of ArubaOS)

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ahferroin7@reddit

Meraki I knew about, but the newer Cisco IOS and Juniper JunOS I did not.

But this doesn’t change all the existing hardware out there that’s not been updated to any of those newer platforms. It still exists and still runs whatever it did as of it’s last update, and there’s still a lot of it out there.

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rautenkranzmt@reddit

While it's true that a fair bit of legacy Cisco and Juniper kit still exists in the world, most orgs that can afford to run it in the first place don't let it become too legacy, due to lack of support. Even the glacial pace of governments utilize newer, linux based equipment.

SMBs generally use lower end kit, such as Aruba, Ubiquity, or the like. Medium and Large businesses demand support for their kit, so they aren't running legacy gear unless they are a truly legacy company just waiting for the dominoes to fall. Megacorps and Big Tech either run kit in support brackets or roll their own, almost always with linux.

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sohang-3112@reddit

TIL

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ahferroin7@reddit

For the RTOS use cases, yes, to some extent. That’s part of the point of the PREEMPT_RT patches that have existed for many years and finally got fully merged earlier this year. But there are still some things that Linux just can’t cover there. For example, Linux will never fully replace hard-real-time use cases that need formal verification down to the OS level (such as many medical devices and other safety-critical systems).

For the automotive use cases, Linux runs just fine there in many cases, and there has been a shift towards Android for the infotainment systems in recent years.

For the ‘ultra-embedded’ cases like the JavaCard platforms or most things using RTEMS, no, no interest or even point to trying. These types of systems are generally super-specific and have resource utilization planned down to individual bytes of storage and individual processor cycles, and there are essentially no advantages to using Linux on them.

For other stuff it’s complicated. For example, most game consoles could use Linux on technical grounds, but they never do because MS/Sony/Nintendo are all obsessive about DRM, and the OS has to integrate with the security functionality, and if they used Linux they would have to publish those integrations (because of the GPL), which would of course simplify cracking their DRM. And then you have cases like IBM i and z/OS, which still exist to support legacy application code written for those platforms or their predecessors.

[-]

sohang-3112@reddit

if they used Linux they would have to publish these interactions (due to GPL)

Really? Nvidia bundled proprietary drivers for Linux for a long time, so pretty sure they could figure out a GPL workaround if they really wanted to use Linux.

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

They could take the NVIDIA approach. But doing so is arguably more complex than just doing things sensibly.

And while you can talk about GPL ‘workarounds’ all you want, those tend to generate a lot of bad press when some big company utilizes one (remember TiVo?), which is something that sensible companies tend to prefer to avoid.

Even ignoring all of that though, making the underlying platform Linux still makes life easier for someone looking to crack the system for many other reasons that have nothing to do with licensing. Figuring out how to get code running in kernel mode is inordinately easier if you know how the kernel works and have most of the source code available to consult (and especially if there are well documented bugs).

[-]

mpdscb@reddit

You know Solaris is still around, don't you?

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

Yes, as is SCO OpenServer for that matter. Both would fall under my last point, though I would not say that either is a big enough platform anymore to be considered a ‘big name’.

[-]

mpdscb@reddit

Yeah Oracle really did a number on Solaris. At one point in time, Solaris was arguably the most popular UNIX platform.

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

They did a numnber on almost every major piece of software they inherited from Sun...

[-]

bobthebobbest@reddit

Ok so almost everything runs on some *nix.

[-]

Ajedi32@reddit

BSD isn't Linux, but I'd personally still count it for the purposes of OP's question. A lot of people say Linux when they really mean *nix.

[-]

cd109876@reddit

Great list! I would just also point out that, unofficially, a lot of these kinds of devices can run Linux too.

From the top of my head,

Apple devices (All x86 and some ARM - M1/2/3 laptops, iPhone 7)

PS2-4

Nintendo Switch

Nintendo 64

[-]

LetterheadAny9427@reddit

Lol literally no one asked

[-]

Thejeswar_Reddy@reddit

Well I'm asking now, tell me more if you are so smart mister.

[-]

LetterheadAny9427@reddit

This sub is a such a circle jerk lol no matter what the post people will say “did you know that machine can run linux?” Lmaoo

[-]

Thejeswar_Reddy@reddit

Bruh on a Linux sub what are you expecting, Spirituality?

[-]

Embarrassed-Stuff197@reddit

Why so negative? lol

[-]

LetterheadAny9427@reddit

Literally every single post has these narcissists that want to share their genius and say “did you know that machine CAN run linux?” Like we all fucking know that lmfao and its not related to the post

[-]

Embarrassed-Stuff197@reddit

If you are so emotionally invested, maybe you should take a break from reddit…

[-]

autra1@reddit

That's why it's not a top-level answer.

[-]

wiebel@reddit

OS/2 is alive and well? I don't think so. EOL was 2005 even for german banks and they were not exactly quick movers.

[-]

miffe@reddit

OS/2 is continued as eComStation and ArcaOS.

[-]

wiebel@reddit

That's cool OS/2 was really cool and superstable.

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

And I have seen actual commercial systems running it within the past five years. They’re legacy systems admitedly, but they still exist and still are running the code.

[-]

dark_mode_everything@reddit

java environment of all things

Not that surprising when you think about the origins of java and what it was created for.

[-]

kaddkaka@reddit

Why? 👀😊

[-]

dark_mode_everything@reddit

Java was originally meant to run on blue ray DVD players as an embedded OS of sorts. I think there still are some players that run on java.

[-]

Cautious_Pin_3903@reddit

Java was created 1996. Blue ray players were released 2006.

[-]

dark_mode_everything@reddit

Woops sorry! My bad. Not DVD players, but set top boxes and interactive TVs. Check the wiki page.

[-]

ThirstyWolfSpider@reddit

Don't forget things like Java Rings. "What is Java for?" has changed an awful lot over the years.

[-]

GolemancerVekk@reddit

TBF Java has always been extremely adaptable. It's the most flexible mainstream language, runs on lots of platforms, the programming paradigm is not the most flexible but it has adapted very successfully over the ages.

[-]

Majorlncident@reddit

No

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

Yeah, but it still surprises a lot of people because they don’t know that history, especially when they know about the historical issues that Java has had with resource efficiency on larger systems.

[-]

ComprehensiveHawk5@reddit

The nintendo switch uses a custom OS called Horizon. Horizon uses the network stack from FreeBSD but is otherwise custom

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

I knew about the networking stack, but did not actually know the rest of the OS was fully custom, but I’ve not paid much attention to Nintendo stuff as of late. Last I heard nothing was known beyond the networking stack and the assumption was that it was a case like the PS4/5 system software.

[-]

fellipec@reddit

Yesterday I learnd that the famous Prophet X syntethizer have a PC motherboard running Linux inside it.

I would post the link but this subreddit forbids Youtube.

[-]

ahferroin7@reddit

There are also some fancy high-end NICs that run Linux internally to provide special features (and sometimes to be lazy and provide checksum offload in software instead of hardware, which arguably defeats the purpose of checksum offloading...).

[-]

CryPlastic348@reddit

goat

[-]

HackedcliEntUser@reddit

i

[-]

inthesky4@reddit

You forgot Huawei with Harmony OS Next who works on a proprietary microkernel

[-]

StatementOwn4896@reddit

How much information do we know about the integrated security processors OSs?

[-]

fellipec@reddit

Some. People have to reverse engineer the undocumented features. But the thing is made to be very hard to reverse engineer

http://io.netgarage.org/me/

But some folks could do very interesting things

https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/wiki/How-does-it-work%3F

https://web.archive.org/web/20170828150536/http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html

[-]

pppjurac@reddit

A lot of CNC machining systems runs on top of embedded OS, quite a few that are not brand new are still on OS/2, DRDOS and similliar.

[-]

Batrachus@reddit

Fascinating

[-]

MSI_Gaming-X@reddit

Chatgpt

[-]

ladrm@reddit

With removal of 386 and 486 CPU Support from the kernel, somewhat jokingly FreeDOS supports a larger range of x86 CPUs now.

[-]

cyber-punky@reddit

I think there is definitely more variants of CPU's since the 486 than before it.

[-]

ladrm@reddit

Yes and FreeDOS runs them all, Linux not anymore. That's the point here.

[-]

cyber-punky@reddit

Ah, i see your point, This situation however will change soon when 32 bit support is removed from intel CPU's.

[-]

ladrm@reddit

Coincidentally there's an update on x86s front now...

https://hackaday.com/2024/12/21/intel-terminates-x86s-initiative-after-formation-of-new-industry-group/

[-]

cyber-punky@reddit

In case the link ever goes dead:

The article says x86s is 'dead and buried', aka they are not considering following the proposal of removing legacy 8-16-32 bit from the CPU family.

[-]

ladrm@reddit

I think you are taking way too seriously what has been an explicit lighthearted statement.

Anyways,

X86s is not there yet and I think it has some issues of its own (just like Intel itself has now), plus afaik it's still in proposal mode and I haven't seen AMD jumping on this train yet.

I've seen rise and fall or Itanium and that was supposed to be also TheNext64BitThing. Intel delivering incompatible CPUs to wide market (esp. where lots of apps is still 32bit and quality of x86s legacy mode is unknown) might be the last nail in Intel's coffin.

[-]

Desperate-Minimum-82@reddit

Your confusing Linux and Unix

Half of the mobile phones in the world run a form of Linux, android

The other half run a form of unix, IOS

Linux is a unix like, but it is not unix, there are many other unix likes that are not linux as well, like freeBSD which is what the Playstation 3, 4, and 5 use

Then you have the Xbox one and Series consoles, they use a form of Windows which isn't surprising since it's Microsoft

Linux is popular outside of desktops and laptops yes, but it's FAR from the only option, hell it's surprisingly common for some devices to program their own OS from the kernel up despite Linux being right there

[-]

itzjackybro@reddit

any programmable machine

Counterexample: Arduino microcontrollers have far too little RAM and CPU power to run Linux.

[-]

plastic_Man_75@reddit

Not all, I've seen some guy do it

[-]

Anthonyg5005@reddit

No, many things use it but a lot of other stuff use windows server. Windows 10 to xp if it's some touch screen interactable thing. A lot of things also just use android

[-]

RealUlli@reddit

It depends on your definition of "run".

Technically, Linux can run on just about any processor with a Memory Management Unit (MMU) when paired with enough RAM (surprisingly little if you don't need a large userland).

I'm not sure if there's a processor that is currently being manufactured and fulfills the two requirements above that hasn't had Linux ported to it.

There are some devices that were explicitly designed to resist running Linux (they were mentioned elsewhere in this thread). That doesn't mean their processors wouldn't be capable of running Linux, just the periphery is actively blocking it.

A lot of microcontrollers can't run Linux because they don't fulfill the requirements. I'm explicitly calling them microcontollers and not embedded devices, because there are lots of embedded devices can and do run Linux. Btw, the smallest microcontrollers I know are decoding commands coming down the wire and running the individual LEDs on e.g. your Christmas lights.

So, technically, the answer is no. Microcontrollers outnumber "real computers" by a very large margin. While you might have a few dozen devices in your household that can (and probably do) run Linux, they're outnumbered by the microcontrollers in 10 feet of LED light strip.

However, the borders between these two realms are starting to become less and less defined. You can order more capable microcontrollers based on the RISC-V architecture and instruction set (e.g. ESP32-C3) that are just too small to run Linux, but you can also buy laptops with RISC-V processors that run Linux, e.g. the DC Roma.

On the upper end of computing, just about everything at least has a Linux port, if it doesn't already run Linux.

[-]

Many-Evidence-1079@reddit

Yea it does. I have not found one thing that doesnt run on linux, and better than winblows. I just use WINE. My games and stuff are faster and more fps to. Prolly coz less bloat than winblows

[-]

LowerEquipment4227@reddit

Yeah most things are some version of linux,

[-]

linux_rox@reddit

Please be aware, Linux is a descendent of UNIX. If you want to get more specific, Unix is the grandfather of all OS’s, including windows.

Also not wanting to be snarky or anything, Linux is the kernel and is not the OS itself. The OS needs the kernel to do anything whereas the kernel doesn’t need the OS to work.

[-]

Superb_Raccoon@reddit

There is a whole range of OSes in use and actively developed that are older than UNIX.

[-]

linux_rox@reddit

Didn’t say there wasn’t.

I was pointing out a fact of the matter that Linux is just the kernel, not an OS and it doesn’t rely on the OS to do its job whereas the OS relies on the kernel to do any job.

[-]

Superb_Raccoon@reddit

Yeah, actually you did, by calling UNIX the "grandfather of all OSes".

Read what you write.

[-]

linux_rox@reddit

Ok, so I forgot the word modern OSes. The point stands, of the OSes used today, for the most part are descendants of unix.

[-]

Superb_Raccoon@reddit

You don't get out much, do you? Userland only?

[-]

linux_rox@reddit

I get out a lot, my main use case is user land as I’m in construction, but I’ve done LFS, gentoo and arch (manual install) currently on endeavour.

Did a lot of learning back when computers in the home was just taking off and was thinking about getting into that field, but it was such a new process for the masses that computer engineering and dev was very hard to get into. So I spend a majority of my time learning more of the ecosystem.

[-]

Superb_Raccoon@reddit

See, I am in IT, so I see a much wider range of systems than you.

And I started with AppleOS... on an Apple ][e. First Linux, which came after learning AIX and SCO, was Slackware 0.9.

Maybe listen instead of talk.

[-]

LowerEquipment4227@reddit

Yeah i know kid ive played with lfs making my mini distros and every software engineer get history class of operative systems.

Linux is free n open source and the unix-like with most drivers, so again, most things are some version of linux

[-]

da2Pakaveli@reddit

No. Linux is fully POSIX compatible and UNIX-like but that doesn't mean something like BSD (which essentially powers Apple software and Playstation et al) is a version of Linux.

It'd be a version if they forked the Linux kernel and modified ir. I believe Android does this.

[-]

LowerEquipment4227@reddit

When i sayed that bsd is some version of linux?

[-]

linux_rox@reddit

Please don’t call me kid, been on GNULinux since 1998. Although I do appreciate the compliment, but at 54 I’m not a kid anymore. 😂

The problem with the higher education system when it comes to computers, they don’t teach the reality. Linux is a child of UNIX. Linux isn’t the father/grandfather of anything.

[-]

VlijmenFileer@reddit

since 1998

Tsk, newby!

[-]

DownvoteEvangelist@reddit

There were OS's before Unix and Windows is more related to VMS than anything else...

[-]

VlijmenFileer@reddit

Pls don't tell the kid.

[-]

FlyingWrench70@reddit

If we are including Android, BSD, and thier derivitives then yes. The dependants of Unix run the world.

[-]

shogun77777777@reddit

Android is Linux and should be included

[-]

da2Pakaveli@reddit

I believe with a custom version of it tho?

[-]

shogun77777777@reddit

Modified Linux kernel but still Linux all the same

[-]

thesstteam@reddit

Android's Linux fork and base Linux are interchangeable in 99% of cases

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

Unix runs the world is more correct, but BSD is not a Linux

[-]

FlyingWrench70@reddit

Yes BSD is not Linux, but they are certainly siblings, while BSD propper has a minor market share, it's input into things like Playstation and MacOS are significant.

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

Not even siblings. There's no linage between UNIX (which the BSD derived from) and the Linux Kernel. Linux was inspired by Minix (though not inspired enough to use a microkernel). Minix was a UNIX like OS for personal computers, with no direct lineage or code from UNIX. At the very best, you can say Linux was loosely inspired by UNIX philosophy.

To complete the analogy, Minix was the small house in the wealthy UNIX neighborhood and Linux was Minix's college friend.

[-]

mooky1977@reddit

At best you can say all the nix/nux incarnations, both modern and legacy, share a similar design philosophy with subtle differences in implementation.

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

No, they don't even share similar design philosophy. Linux doesn't even meet UNIX standards as it's just a kernel. UNIX and UNIX derived systems should provide a kernel, simple tools each of which performs a limited, well-defined function, a unified inode based filesystem and "pipes". Some GNU/Linux distributions meet some of that philosophy standard, but with the expansion of things systemd, there is ground to argue most systemd based GNU/Linux are straying from the UNIX philosophy.

At the kernel level you can split the *nix between monolithic kernel, micro kernel and hybrid.

Linux and the current BSDs are monolithic kernels

Minix, QNX, L3 & L4 are microkernels (used in embedded applications)

XNU is a hybrid

[-]

mooky1977@reddit

Way to bike shed the point!

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

That's the history of Unix and Unix-like operating systems. It's all nit picking ;)

The history of Unix is very complicated and there are a multitude of ways of looking at it. Is it kernel linage that really matters on when something is a UNIX or is it a adherence to the UNIX philosophy? None of the current UNIX kernels contain any AT&T code, but by the time that lawsuit was settled there was very little AT&T code left in the BSD kernel so what counts as linage to the original UNIX systems?

My point on Linux not being a UNIX stands, as it never contained any AT&T code, code derived from the AT&T code, nor any code derived from the BSD 4.4 Lite/Lite2 kernels and it doesn't adhere to the UNIX philosophy. The sticking point on the last point is what most people consider Linux is actual Linux distributions. The question then becomes, is a GNU/Linux distro a UNIX based on the philosophy alone?

[-]

mooky1977@reddit

I understand all that, but go look up "bike shedding", especially given that I said design philosophy with different implementation. You basically reiterated what I said.

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

And I'm saying, that isn't necessarily true. If you ask Linus what Linux is, he'd tell you it a kernel. A kernel alone doesn't meet the design philosophy of UNIX as it doesn't provide the other things. You have to add on the GNU tools and others to get there.

That is one way of looking at it. You could look at it with taking Linux as a broader term to mean Linux distributions, but then you'd have people like Linus and Stallman who say that isn't correct.

When it comes to UNIX, what is correct and what isn't correct is a matter of perspective and deciding on what truly is UNIX, unless you are the OpenGroup which holds the rights to the trademark "UNIX" and have their own published, but vague standard on what is UNIX and UNIX certification.

[-]

frisbeethecat@reddit

Linux was inspired to use GNU software, especially the gcc compiler, way back in the 20th Century. Likewise, many of the BSD's used gcc and GNU software until GPLv3 became an issue. However, early bsd's, much like early unixes used proprietary compilers like pcc

[-]

KnowZeroX@reddit

The term you are looking for is *nix

[-]

Business_Reindeer910@reddit

there are tons of things that run none of those because they run some proprietary RTOS

[-]

Masterflitzer@reddit

i mean there are bsd, custom os, firmware is also something that "runs" and is often not linux (based)

so yeah you're wrong or right depending on what you both meant with "everything"

[-]

DownvoteEvangelist@reddit

No, Linux is too much for plenty of things, your washing machine probably doesn't run Linux... But your wifi router very likely does...

[-]

mguaylam@reddit

I mean.. I’m pretty sure my washer runs Linux. At least Samsung has Android. 😅

[-]

BleaKrytE@reddit

I mean, how else is Richard M. Stallman supposed to watch videos on his core booted Samsung smart fridge?

[-]

DownvoteEvangelist@reddit

That's why I said probably...

[-]

VlijmenFileer@reddit

+1 For username

[-]

mguaylam@reddit

Wrong wording sorry, fixed it.

[-]

wiebel@reddit

Well isn't android just a glorified jit jvm on top of linux, so still linux?

[-]

mguaylam@reddit

Yes

[-]

Icy-Childhood1728@reddit

Routers mostly run on UNIX or BSD which isn't Linux

[-]

ouyawei@reddit

What year is this?

[-]

Icy-Childhood1728@reddit

2005

[-]

boomboomsubban@reddit

I bet a surprising number of washing machines run Linux. Maybe not personal ones, but many from laundromats have payment systems that probably run Linux.

[-]

dark_mode_everything@reddit

I think they run a version of Android (yes, Linux).

[-]

remic_0726@reddit

android only has the linux kernel, the rest is pure google, even libc is not glibc. So hard to say that android is linux

[-]

nuclearfall@reddit

IMO, the Linux kernel is the only requirement for calling a system Linux. GNU/Linux is just the most widely used. But that’s just me

[-]

Chippiewall@reddit

But your wifi router very likely does...

Router possibly does. I think BSD tends to be more common than Linux in networking hardware.

[-]

monocasa@reddit

Not in consumer routers, bye you'd be surprised how much vxworks there is.

[-]

DownvoteEvangelist@reddit

I'd expect that Linux is more common for consumer hardware, but I could be wrong...

[-]

fellipec@reddit

I like that my washing machine proabaly just have a microcontroller not running anything but its own firmware. And I would be even happier if I could fix the old wash machine that run on a mechanical timer, like my airfryer do.

I love computers, tech and Linux, and exactly because this I prefer that some things have as few, if none, computers.

[-]

TheTankCleaner@reddit

I like that my washing machine proabaly just have a microcontroller not running anything but its own firmware.

As opposed to running some other device's firmware?

[-]

fellipec@reddit

Hopefully

[-]

DownvoteEvangelist@reddit

I remember when I first took my car for regular maintence and they said "we also did a mandatory update of steering wheel software" and my first thought was there's software in my steering wheel?

[-]

Whatever801@reddit

The more modern ones that do load sensing and connect to wifi and Bluetooth for only god knows what reason actually do run linux

[-]

bitman2049@reddit

If a CPU architecture has an ANSI C compiler, and the computer it's in has an appropriate amount of RAM, it can probably be made to run Linux.

[-]

bstamour@reddit

Well, you're not wrong; but it would be a matter of porting Linux to the architecture, not just dropping it in place and fiddling with it.

First, the CPU architecture would need a port of GCC targeting it, since the Linux kernel uses a fair number of vendor-provided extensions to C. Second, if Linux hasn't been ported to that architecture previously, then you'd need to write all the architecture-dependent assembly bits for it. If the platform doesn't have an MMU, then chances are Linux will never boot on it.

So, you need more than just a C compiler.

[-]

da2Pakaveli@reddit

iirc Linux also has some assembler in its code base that would need to be ported?

[-]

bstamour@reddit

Yes, those are the "architecture-depdendent assembly bits [...]" I mentioned in my comment. You can't set up the kernel stack from within the C programming language, or even manipulate the stack pointer to switch running processes. You need assembly for that, and plenty of other things outside of C's abstract machine.

[-]

alkatori@reddit

It's incorrect, but like another poster said that's if you mean everything.

There are a lot of 8 bit microcontrollers still doing meaningful work in the world. Lots of resource constrained 16 bit and 32 bit system on a chip too that can't run linux.

[-]

da2Pakaveli@reddit

Microcontrollers that just run one program don't even need an OS

[-]

omeow@reddit

IOS doesn't use the Linux kernel. I believe iOS runs on a billion+ iPhones/iPads/macs/etc.

[-]

da2Pakaveli@reddit

Microcontrollers usually don't even run any OS. It's just one program, written in C or Assembler, that the machine executes.

[-]

DarrenRainey@reddit

A good chunk of common hardware is running Linux in some form wheter than be in the form of Android, chrome os or an embedded system like a router, as well as many, many servers. As Linus tovarlds once said linux has taken over pretty muchh everywhere but the desktop

[-]

AirTuna@reddit

Those fully graphical ATMs that are common in North America (primarily the Big Bank ones) tend to be running Windows LTSC. It's also common for electronic voting machines to be running Windows.

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

No. Far more things run "not Linux" then run Linux. When you get down to things like microcontrollers, ASICs and things like that.. they aren't running Linux.

[-]

blenderbender44@reddit

Also linux is still quite narrow, A lot of the internet is BSD, playstation is BSD. So *nix would be better wording anyway

[-]

mimedm@reddit

Yeah I read a while ago that NetBSD has the most supported platforms. Not sure it still exists

[-]

ouyawei@reddit

Linux overtook NetBSD in that probably a decade ago

[-]

mimedm@reddit

Which distribution? NetBSD has 49 ports and supports 9 platforms. https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/

Debian isnt better I would say https://www.debian.org/ports/

Other distributions have probably far less.

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

Every Intel machine since the release of Intel ME 11 has run MINIX. It may be the worlds most installed Unix-like operating system

[-]

One_Force_5681@reddit

Do you mean every PC running Intel is actually running MINIX behind the scene ?

[-]

blenderbender44@reddit

I think that's what he means yeah.

[-]

Top-Classroom-6994@reddit

Intel's security chip runs MINIX

[-]

deja_geek@reddit

Intel's Management Engine, and on-board management system that runs below the operating system (Windows, Linux, etc..) since 2015 (ME 11) has been running Minix.

[-]

One_Force_5681@reddit

TIL! Thanks!

[-]

EchoAtlas91@reddit

Let me tell you one thing: 3D Printer Slicers have a HELL of a time running on Linux systems unless you have perfect compatible specs and distro. It's absoMcfuckinglutely frustrating the lack of wide support for Linux from 3D Printer slicers. ESPECIALLY if you have an Nvidia card.

They typically only support Ubuntu and say screw you to the rest of the distros.

The software I'm talking about is Chitubox Basic/Pro, Chitubox Manager, Lychee Slicer, and Orcaslicer, (however I was able to get Orcaslicer to work by compiling it myself from within a Ubuntu 22.04 Distrobox, but still a pain in the ass).

And when I tell you I've tried absolutely everything I can to get these software to work, I mean it.

I've tried:

Various Environment Variables on slicer's AppImages to force running on x11 and force webkit versions
Wine/Winetricks to run the Windows Installers
Lutris to run the Windows Installers
Bottles to run the Windows Installers
Hell, even Proton
Distrobox Installation(Worked with Orcaslicer via a Ubuntu 22.04 Distrobox)
Virtual Machines via virt-manager & Gnome Boxes(Partially runs but with unusable performance)

I am this close to doing some testing on the EXEs of these software and seeing if it has to do with registry issues or missing dlls and try to manually install those via Wine.

And when I've gone to any of the slicers for help they copy paste "I'm sorry we don't support that distribution at this time."

Literally they shut down the moment you mention you're not on Ubuntu and will copy and paste the same thing repeatedly.

[-]

HCharlesB@reddit

Lots of businesses use Windows. I know of several including a small shop that supports other small businesses. My son works in manufacturing and they use Windows (with some Raspberry Pis for shop floor displays and which run RpiOS.) All of their servers and workstations are Windows. Lots of business people rely on Excel and Word and this ties them to Windows as well (though I doubt there is much desire to switch.)

AFAIK Linux is huge in the Internet back end and some other markets like higher end IoT things but there are still significant markets where Windows and MAC OS rule.

[-]

cgoldberg@reddit

iPhones would like a word. There are several billion mobile devices out there not running Linux.

Linux certainly doesn't run "everything" by any means. There are many other operating systems for embedded devices for example. Also, a lot of stuff runs on BSD, like network gear for example. Also, there are a ton of weird places you'll find Windows running (like ATM's).

So Linux doesn't run everything, but it definitely has been ported to an insane amount of architectures and installed on devices that run a lot of the world's computation.

[-]

mooky1977@reddit

Actually, there's Linux in your iPhone.

The Wi-Fi chipset runs on an embedded Linux kernel. Today you learned.

[-]

cgoldberg@reddit

That sounds odd. Got a link to what you are referring to? Which manufacturer are they using? I can't find anything about this.

[-]

mooky1977@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM_8UOPFpqE&t=982s

I was slightly mistaken, its the 5g chipset, not the wifi, so part of the telecommunications framework, not the wifi infrastructure.

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cgoldberg@reddit

So weird. I don't doubt the guy, but I can't find anything about this online. I assume this is from Qualcomm as they haven't moved the modems to in-house silicon yet?

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Minute-Custard2552@reddit

Today I did learn. Can you send a link to an article or wiki page about it?

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mooky1977@reddit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM_8UOPFpqE&t=982s

I was slightly mistaken, its the 5g chipset, not the wifi, so part of the telecommunications framework, not the wifi infrastructure.

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andreaswpv@reddit

I read iOS is based on a BSD derivate..., so at least some kind of unix base is in there.

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NoRecognition84@reddit

You are correct. iOS (and MacOS) is based on Darwin, which has code derived from several BSD-based operating systems like FreeBSD and NeXTSTEP.

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pharmacy_666@reddit

linux is not really related to unix, it was just designed similarly superficially

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Superb_Raccoon@reddit

They both treat everything as a pipe between an input device and an output device.

That is the secret of UNIX's design.

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nzrailmaps@reddit

A lot of kiosks running Windows (like self serve kiosks in supermarkets, McDonald's etc)

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homestar92@reddit

Plenty of programmable machines that are not a desktop or laptop run Linux. Most such IoT devices are based on a microcontroller of some variety or another, and those don't really have an operating system at all - they run baremetal code. Also FPGAs, GAL chips, etc. All "programmable" but none run an operating system.

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whaleboobs@reddit

DOOM runs on everything

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destronger@reddit

Does Linux run on DOOM?

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jontn_swift@reddit

DOOM runs on linux. Beautifully.

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bullwinkle8088@reddit

“Not a desktop or laptop”?

Says who? I’ve not run anything but Linux on mine since 2000. Why would I pay to run something?

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whosdr@reddit

I think you fully misunderstood what was being asked.

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bullwinkle8088@reddit

No, I didn’t. I was commenting on a specific part of it, hence the quotes.

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whosdr@reddit

What they're asking is, if you exclude laptops and desktops, is what runs on everything else (embedded, servers, kioskes) all Linux.

They aren't suggesting that Linux doesn't run on laptops/desktops.

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bullwinkle8088@reddit

I did tell you I understood perfectly well what the question was. You are the one misunderstanding the comment. Just stop.

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whosdr@reddit

So..you're choosing to ignore the question cited and just post something unrelated?

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bullwinkle8088@reddit

It is you who cannot understand the relation. If English is your second language I could explain it to you.

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whosdr@reddit

If the query is regarding "All X that is not Y", then talking about Y is entirely irrelevant. In a discussion asking if non-PC/Laptops run Linux, what's it matter if laptops or desktops run Linux? It wasn't the question.

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r0ck0@reddit

You can't argue whether something is anything "almost everything" without defining what that's even meant to mean.

It's not even an attempt at objective statement one way or the other.

This is just haggling over vague subjective statements more than anything. And it's why people waste so much time arguing things that don't even make sense.

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EmbeddedSoftEng@reddit

There are plenty of industrial and embedded devices that run software like QNX that have absolutely no Linux lineage whatsoever.

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DrkMaxim@reddit

If I know one thing that Linux doesn't work on, it would be the Xbox console. I think Linux exists up to Xbox 360 but Xbox One and current gen consoles are tight systems that leave no room to install or even run linux.

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Overlord484@reddit

There are a lot of programmable devices that are so small and simple they don't run anything that could be considered an operating system. I'm thinking like PIC uCs are just grinding through a machine code program that loops at the end that directly interacts with parallel I/Os, A-D converters, ALUs, etc.

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GoldenPika64@reddit

Honestly it's like sorta yes or no. Embedded machines like POS systems and ATMs, Windows, Windows CE, maybe even OS/2 sometimes, and maybe occasionally youll find one with linux. QSR systems involving multiple screens on the inside with fast food are more often than not linux, I remember Little Caesars uses Ubuntu for everything. But most often than not, ive usually figured out a lot more stuff is BSD based, like apples Darwin, most wifi routers, game consoles, and the assorted. BSD has usually just always been somewhat lighter than linux for some reason in some ways I guess where a lot more people will start off there as a cleaner baseplate.

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JimmyRecard@reddit

Linux only runs on 386(486) AT clones. It will probably never support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that is all that Linus has.

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MiserableStomach@reddit

Few years back I read a story about guy who installed Linux on a hard drive. Important: not on hard drive that was part of the larger computer system but on the hard drive itself, in the mini-computer (or whatever) responsible for running its firmware.

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Icy-Childhood1728@reddit

Well if your question is could linux run this or that,
Maybe, depending of the hardware behind it and the manufacturer willing to make it compatible by either open sourcing stuff or releasing working packages, think about anything that requires keys, like Blu ray discs and DRM at one point it wouldn't work at all because there simply wasn't any way to decode stuff.
Software wise, there is almost always a way, but it'll imply emulating stuff and I wouldn't dare to say for instance Games played through Proton, even if performances are a-Okay these day is really a linux release. Speaking about gaming, every single anti-cheat that relies on Windows kernel analyses don't work on linux too, not that it couldn't again, but to this day, they don't.

Now, if you are thinking that everything right now relies on linux and our world would collapse if tomorrow Linux was removed from earth... yeah no.
Just think about every single piece of hardware that works with a firmware, your screen, your mouse, any piece of electronic that doesn't require any kind of OS. Think about "embbeded" stuff that still runs on windows (ATM, ad panels, kiosks stuff,...).
Most of big corpos extensively use Windows Servers on their production environment (ERP/SAP, SCADAs, ...), most of corpos desktop / laptops are running Windows.
There are a lot of autonomous stuff that plainly run on Java, like some ATM, automatic parking barriers, ...
Routers uses Unix variant like Cisco IOS

To finish with the listing stuff, even if Linux is big, seems to own the web, it is a good thing that it doesn't run everything. Think about the last root privilege gate, do you think it would be a good thing that with ONE 0-day, any single piece of connected stuff could became part of a botnet ?
Do you think corpos would make more use / money / gain any advantage over switching everything to linux when Windows Server just works ?
Do you think every single IT/OT guy on production sites have time and skills to learn and use Linux instead of Windows ?

And finally why are we still arguing about that in 2024 ? As much as I like Linux and how much I use it daily, my main computer is still running Windows, I'm fine with it, I have an Android phone, an iPad, a macbook running both arch and MacOS, 6 RaspPI, shittons of arduino boards, I'm dealing in production with around 50 Windows servers around the globe and 20 Linux servers, all of this just work fine, there is no need to push one OS over the other when it just do the job it is asked for, when the monitoring is well done, when patches are applied at the right time, ...

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MrElendig@reddit

yes

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vyashole@reddit

Well, not everything, but a vast majority.

Linux is overkill for things that can suffice with just a microcontroller or a small RISC cpu running some RTOS. Think home appliances like microwaves, washing machines, fancy toasters, etc. For anything more complex than that, it's most likely Linux.

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notonyanellymate@reddit

Based on web usage across all device types, Android alone has about 47% of the marketshare, if you add Linux servers, Chromebooks, routers, most of the Internet, then yes Linux pretty much runs the majority of gear.

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Hopeful_Rabbit_3729@reddit

Yeah even on my my grandma’s nokia 1100

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I-like-IT-Things@reddit

Incorrect, go tell your friend you were wrong like a man.

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leonardosalvatore@reddit

Freertos and zephyr are the two options for tiny things. This is my experience as an embedded developer.

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veritable_squandry@reddit

oh man, the number of times i've seen a BSOD in embarrassing locations (like an atm for example). so no, not really. sadly.

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TraditionBeginning41@reddit

At the other end of the scale from desktops and laptops are supercomputers l. Last year 47% of the top 500 supercomputers ran Linux (https://www.statista.com/statistics/565080/distribution-of-leading-supercomputers-worldwide-by-operating-system-family/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%202023%2C%20of,used%20the%20CentOS%20operating%20system.) If you include Android and Chromebook devices there is a lot of Linux out there.

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mfotang@reddit

It's 100%, if CentOS is Linux.

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BK_Rich@reddit

Almost

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MulberryDeep@reddit

My calculator doesnt run linux for example, my thermostat also doesnt run linux

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arthursucks@reddit

A joke from 2007(?) about Installing Linux on a Dead Badger.

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Thick_You2502@reddit

Classic

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dynamiteSkunkApe@reddit

There are a lot of embedded systems that run vxworks.

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dicksonleroy@reddit

The Z80 processor probably runs more things than Linux.

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Thick_You2502@reddit

8051 enters to the chat

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FigureInevitable4835@reddit

The ATM near my house runs OS/2

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halfanothersdozen@reddit

If it is shit on the internet it's almost always on Linux. Very rarely someone is running a Windows server but even the people coding in .NET are more often than not running on nix systems

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Hot_Dragonfruit4039@reddit

Yes but does it matter

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lustriousParsnip639@reddit

My thermostat, all 3 of my smart TVs, my wireless access points, my security cameras, my wireless speakers, my tablet, my phone, my picture frames, my treadmill, my workstation, and my cable modem all run linux.

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MeanEYE@reddit

That's a very generic statement and one which is impossible to verify or disprove. But more often than not if you have a device which has access to internet, some sort of mass storage, video decoding of sorts, GUI, etc. Then chances are it's running Linux because making all of those features from scratch would be a massive waste of time when they are readily available at the cost of including link to open source license. Just checking for license is not all that reliable either since favorite pass time for Chinese manufacturers is violating GPL in most creative ways.

For simple software, like desk lamps, remote control switches, things that just have bare bones functionality Linux is overkill, even though minimum hardware requirement is really comically low (still).

So for example your car's computer would be custom code, but infotainment system is most likely Linux. TVs, routers, cameras... usually Linux. Doorbells, custom code.

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Fuzzy-Ad2874@reddit

Yes

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rx80@reddit

A few resources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_range_of_use

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_on_embedded_systems

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-powered_device