That’s a large part of the equation but not all of it. Even factoring for inflation, housing costs were much lower relative to average pay decades ago. Many of those people have bought and sold houses several times and reaped the benefits along the way. Things like investment properties that many of those people purchased decades ago have gone from a challenge to save for to a borderline pipe dream for anyone today. A small summer cabin on a lake was a realistic thing for middle class people to save for and buy. Those same places are untouchable for the middle class now.
> A small summer cabin on a lake was a realistic thing for middle class people to save for and buy. Those same places are untouchable for the middle class now.
I agree in general with what you said, but not this. Not even close. If you had a summer lake cabin that wasn't just a shack you were not middle class.
Growing up in Southern Ontario, it was super common for people to have cottages on a lake. My parents didn’t because they didn’t want to put up with the maintenance, but I knew a lot of people who did have a cottage and they were comfortable but definitely not wealthy. My best friend in elementary school had a modest cottage, his dad was a mechanic and his mom was a receptionist. They were lower middle class at best, but they were still able to buy a cottage. Like maybe this was not super common where you live, but around where I live it was a pervasive part of the culture.
I agree with everyone else here. You’re either coping because you were poor, or your parents were lazy like mine, and didn’t want to put in the work.
Yeah, probably half of the lower-middle class families I knew in Wisconsin had a "cabin up north" by a lake that they'd spend weekends at in the summer. It's more common than you'd think, especially there where lakes were everywhere and land was cheap.
>you were not middle class.
This is ridiculously untrue. My grandmother worked in a sewing factory and my grandmother was a mechanic in the airforce. They came from no money, raised 4 kids, and eventually worked as a nurse and electrician in a poor area. They were lower-middle class, but un the early 1970s, could afford to buy 140 acres of woods-turned-tree-farmland at $100/acre, built a 4 bedroom house ($25,000), and use the tree money in the 90s to buy cabin on river (no lakes nearby).
> They were lower-middle class, but in the early 1970s, could afford to buy 60 acres of woods-turned-tree-farmland at $100/acre, built a 4 bedroom house ($25,000), and use the tree money in the 90s to buy 3 bedroom cabin/second home on a river (no lakes nearby).
[The median home price in the 1970's was $17,000.](https://www.fool.com/money/mortgages/articles/this-is-how-home-prices-have-changed-in-the-last-50-years/)
> This is ridiculously untre and smells like a cope.
LMAO the only cope here is you cosplaying a poor person while your family owned multiple homes that cost more than the median home price.
This isn't really the sub for it but anything that's not for emergencies or big near term purchases should absolutely be invested somewhere. The reason above being exactly why
Anyone chime in if I'm wrong, but if you invest your money in a Roth Ira, you can withdraw the amount that you contributed without penalty. I've been putting money in mine with the assumption that if I need it, I can withdraw the contributions, and Fidelity will have them to me within 2 to 4 days. Or else I'd be doing what you're doing, looking at houses. I still do keep too much NOT invested haha.
Oh with the Roth Ira there's no penalties as long as you only withdraw what you contributed. Because that money came after taxes. There's penalties if you withdraw the profits/more than you contributed.
Everything is going up, take the ride along with them. Index funds for the win. They’re not glamorous, they’re not fancy, they’re not get-rich-quick, but they are steady and self-cleaning. Get a low fee brokerage account. Don’t let people manage it, they’ll keep changing things and incurring fees/gains tax. Just keep adding money and don’t touch it.
You’ll get there.
The best time to invest is always now, even at all time highs, and the best route for most people is to buy shares of some ETF tracking the S&P 500 (or total US stock market), turn on dividend reinvestment, and keep on buying more shares as the money rolls in.
>This isn't really the sub for it
It isn't, but at the same time I've always felt that the overlap between this sub and finance subs (including the infamous wsb) is much closer to being a circle than not.
You want nice car? Acquire money. You want to acquire money? Play 0dtes or buy boring ETFs (or a mix of both).
CFP here. Keep an emergency fund with 3-6 mo expenses in cash. Not knowing any of the numbers, if you’re not maxing out your 401k (if eligible), I’d say if you want to be fancy… max out your 401(k) and then use the extra cash to support your smaller paycheck.
Or, just invest the extra cash in an index fund in a brokerage account. Either option is for superior to letting extra cash sit there and underperform for you. Cheers!
I don't have a 401k - I have a pension, they may offer a 403b but I looked into a few years ago and it was ass.
>Or, just invest the extra cash in an index fund in a brokerage account. Either option is for superior to letting extra cash sit there and underperform for you. Cheers!
Appreciate it, cheers
If you’re saving for a big purchase like a down payment on a house a HYSA makes sense but if it’s money you don’t need for 10+ years get it in the market.
The same can be applied even today. If you graduate college and get that first good job, if you can afford even $50 a paycheck to invest, you keep doing that and you will be very well off when you're old.
Most of it has to do with the fact that life was way more affordable. And if you try to argue this with boomers they will say interest rates were in the 20’s and we have no idea.
> Most of it has to do with the fact that life was way more affordable. And if you try to argue this with boomers they will say interest rates were in the 20’s and we have no idea.
lol what? [Interest rates in the 70's and 80's were like 2x-3x what they have been for the past 15 years.](https://www.noradarealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Federal-Reserve-Interest-Rates-Chart.png)
It's genius. I've tried to take out for an impending crash (even after I spent months learning how incredibly short sighted that is) but starting January, constant amount every month. Time in > timing.
Yep if you make money on a car you are suppose to pay tax on it. But honestly many people don't unless it's a massive gain. People who flip cars and make like 1-2K almost certainly don't pay taxes lol
Instructions unclear. Bought a new 1LT and now I’m $10k upside down on my 18% APR loan while paying $800/month for insurance thanks to my history of monthly DUIs. I hope it works out because the equity in this car is my retirement plan.
And this is why classic cars are typically a poor investment. Even if you get something ultra rare like this - and get it at a very good price, it won't beat even a basic index fund.
Not to mention, with a car you have to keep it, store it, and maintain it.
You buy a classic car for a collectable, status symbol, or fun toy that won't depreciate that much, not for a long-term investment.
Cars are just like any hobby, you do it because you enjoy it, not because you want to make money.
Basically any hobby is expensive and you'll never ever get more out than you put in. In fact usually you're lucky to get 80% back when alls said and done.
Then why did you bring up the mileage then. You're moving the field goal because if you're going to say he could have bought another car you have to subtract that from the original 2500 investment into the stock market.
Stock also doesn't have a high risk of being stolen or broken into, no water damage, etc. The one car that survives long enough to be worth 150k is a unique lucky case
They you too work and he still had to buy a cheaper replacement car. I don't think the two things are comparable. That's also why I said stock doesn't have maintenance.
Is this where we list cars we could have bought back in the day?
I was a teen in the 80s and here are a couple that come to mind: I was offered a Roadrunner with a 383 and four on the floor for $400. I didn’t buy it because it was in primer and had some rust bubbles around the rear window.
I also had a friend whose parents bought him a very nice ‘72 Porsche 911 when we were in high school. He went off to college and left the 911 behind because it wouldn’t start because it needed a $100 fuel pump. His dad offered it to me for $3500. I didn’t buy it because I didn’t have $3500.
You could buy 60s Ferraris for about $15k back then. I could go on…
I passed on a mint 1972 Datsun 240z about 13 years ago for $5k. Orange paint, hot cam, 5 speed, aggressive front lip.
He wouldn't come down to $4500 and I thought it was too much.
Thirteen years ago was a good time to buy almost anything. Most assets..real estate, stocks, classic cars…were near their lows back then and have skyrocketed in value since.
My dad talks about all the cool cars he had growing up, and how he wished he held onto them. Back then, these cars were seen as disposable. They were cheap. Nobody thought how well they would age over the years and how the interest for them would grow.
Personally, I think the market is over inflated. It's being held up by boomers who grew up in these cars, so they hold a special place in their heart. I think we will see a flood of these hit the market when kids are inheriting these cars that they don't want to deal with. Then hopefully I can scoop up that 71 Chevelle SS that I've been eyeing for a good deal.
> Then hopefully I can scoop up that 71 Chevelle SS that I've been eyeing for a good deal.
You and tens of thousands of others. It's not getting cheap.
My dad ran through the list of cars he's owned and it was truly painful to me that he ran them all into the ground, crashed, or abandoned them. He had 3 Mustang's a classic Charger 2 Thunderbirds and a Grand Torino. After that he seemed to drive nothing but shit boxes. But I've seen the pictures and heard all the stories.
Those cars were far more common at the time. He bought them and used them how he saw fit and that's all that matters. Just like how Crown Vics are the hot car to get for cheap and thrash right now. Eventually our grandkids are gonna come and ask why we thrashed such "rare" cars.
Once or twice, I have considered, "I should have bought a panther body while they still made them new."
But doing the math, I want to say a basic crown vic was in the 40's, adjusted for inflation. For my interests, there are other cars genuinely worth paying that much for id rather have back then.
My dad (53) bought a 67 Chevelle at barret jackson a couple years ago and LS3 swapped it (was a true SS 396 but not numbers matching). Coolest car ever but absolutely a money pit and only bought out of love, he’ll never sell it and he’d never get what he’s put in. But I’ll (26) be inheriting and it will never be sold. I think a lot of kids my age will be keeping their inheritance personally, but maybe the lost art of manual driving will change that idk.
It's the same attitude as Rolex Daytonas. Back then bubblebacks were the 'in' thing, and Daytonas were just 'disposable crap'. Now of course, in hindsight, people think differently.
Yep reminds me of all the cheap Japanese beater cars we had in the 80s and 90s which were practically worthless by the 2000s.. Now they sell for 5 figures.
Lol, I was looking at old threads on Reddit just to research what cars people were recommending like 12-15 yrs ago, and a topic I came by was sporty, affordable first cars and one of the suggestions that was popular was a GT-R.
I genuinely can't believe there was a few years where Fast & Furious ricers were at their peak popularity, yet GT-Rs were considered affordable cars.
Back in 2004 you could get an R32 GTR in Canada for $20-25K Cdn, 5 years later you could get an R33 GTR in Canada for about $20-25K Cdn. I was thinking "oh shit, in another 5 years, I can get myself an R34 GTR for under $30K" Nope. When they first started being available to import in Canada they were going for $75K CDN and up.
In New Zealand in the mid 2000's we were making fun of a friend who built an RB26 swapped R32 GTS-t. Back then a genuine GT-R was relatively attainable because the market was saturated by Japanese imports. We found it hilarious that he bothered doing the swap when he could've bought a real GT-R for not much more.
Nowadays with the USA being able to import R32s, prices are eye watering. Even my friend's RB26 swap would sell for close to 6 figures ($NZD). It's the same story with all the other JDM icons. RX-7s were worthless because nobody wanted the hassle of owning a 13b. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
I mean if it’s for racing it’s proven and cheaper but the stock of them is scarce now so that’s why regular ones are worth more. Still dumb but drift tax.
Really sucks that with ICE bans, that might just end if you can't afford to buy it before the ban or after when the price will skyrocket. I can't imagine the word "affordable" being thrown around when it comes to buying small, formerly affordable sport cars.
I really wanted a 86 but can't be sold anymore due to new safety regs in Europe and they won't redesign it. Hopefully that new Toyota 2 seater than comes out in 2027 is priced well. It would honestly rob me of my enthusiasm for cars and probably my want for a career as a tech in general if despite it all, I couldn't actually drive a car I want and there's no alternative like fuelling it on net zero emission fuels so it's still legal to sell past 2035.
On the cards, but I was thinking more in the future ideally when it'd be more reasonable where I'd have the space. Which is why the ICE ban sucks because they won't redesign it to fit most likely because they'll be illegal to sell in 5 years unless enthusiast cars get exceptions. 500 got sold in the UK last year so there will be a healthy pool of them out there for a while hopefully.
I am 63. In HS my older brother had a '68 Charger, an I had a 70.5 RS Camaro. We were not well off, but had weekend jobs that were enough to pay for them. Probably each paid $2000. Plenty of Chevelle's and the like at school.
My dad sold his 1970 white on blue Chevelle SS 396 Convertible back in the 80's to buy his first house. We found it for sale about 10 years ago for 110K.
Will be interesting to see. The market tends to follow what was popular when buyers were younger. Millennials hit the point where they could afford toys and the price of 90's cars shot up. The older generation sells off what mattered to them and the younger generation tends not to be as eager leading to falling prices.
There are three things working against you. The aftermarket for classic muscle cars is huge. They do not require specialized tools or rely on electronics that can be nla. Restoring a 90's or later car isn't as doable as it used to be. Even if things are available it may require pricey tools to program things. For those wanting to do a restore classic muscle still holds a lot of appeal.
There are not a lot of cars made in the last decade that appeal to enthusiasts. Want a manual? Heck, want a sporty vehicle? Your options are much more limited.
Muscle cars still hold a place in pop culture. They may have been badly built and handled like shit, but they are still used in a lot of media.
>Then hopefully I can scoop up that 71 Chevelle SS that I've been eyeing for a good deal
Just like all the Dusenbergs you can get for a good deal? I see what you mean but it probably isnt going to happen
lol my dad is the guy that kept his 68 chevelle SS in my grandparents old cow barn since 83. Bought the car in 75 when he was 17. High school car. 4 speed. No power steering, 4 wheel manual drum brakes. All go no woah.. I have people come up to me at local car shows and ask me if my last name is “xyz”. I’m like uh yeah how’d you know? Oh I remember your dad’s car from highschool and how he’d race around against your uncle’s 70 ss and you kinda look like them so I put 2 and 2 together lol. Has happened bout 3 times. I’ve made it very clear that car is not to leave the family. My sister can have the money just leave me the car lol.
It'll be interesting to see what ends up becoming a future collector's item that is for sale now. I feel like some collector's items are things people didn't really care to buy in the moment.
Take for example the rebirthed Pontiac GTO from the 2000s. It was widely panned at the time. I just saw one listed for sale the other day for $33k. It started at $34k MSRP back in 2005. Those Ford Transit Connect vans? Good luck finding one for less than $20k with 150k miles on em. I just saw a 2022 Ford Transit Connect listed for $36k with 40k miles on it. It only cost like $30k MSRP when it was brand new.
For the Transit Connect, I don't know if this applies specifically to this one, but I think a lot of vans like this went crazy during COVID because of #vanlife becoming popular.
Hear me out…Kia Stinger. Only made for six years and in those six years, only around 140k were sold. Plus, the 3.3 V6 with the TT is even more rare. I want to get one to actually drive myself, but that’s my persecution for future collectors car.
Yeah I could see Kia Stinger. Even more than the Kia Stinger, I could see the Genesis G70 turning into a collectors item. Especially the very, very few that were made with a stick.
The transit connects are an interesting one to me. I can see their utility as a small courier vehicle, flower and parts delivery, etc but they are a nightmare as a service vehicle. We tried to make several work as service vans for a residential HVAC company and even with limited parts needed for residential combined with a thoughtful layout, they were just too small and cumbersome to work out of.
I had a car in the late 90's that I've seen sell for close to 200K on BAT lately. If my dot-com company hadn't crashed, I had my eye on getting a second one (special edition) that recently sold for over 500K.
>A MAN who **sold his ultra-rare 1969 Camaro for just $2,500 as a teenager was gutted to discover it at auction years later for a cool $150,000.**
>**In 1979, then-16-year-old Glenn Stearns** \- founder of Stearns Lending and star of Undercover Billionaire **- bought a rare RS Z/28s Camaro for $1,500.**
>Having bought the car from a friend, the teen - who was already a father at this point - knew little about how truly unique his car was.
>Introduced in 1966 as a 1967 model to rival the Mustang, the Camaro quickly became a success, especially with its high-performance Z/28 Special Performance package.
>Chevrolet sold over 7,000 units, and by 1969, orders surged to over 20,000.
>**But among these, only 20 were configured as RS Z/28s** \- making them exceptionally rare.
>**By luck of chance, Stearns happened upon one of these iterations.**
>However, after numerous incidents of reckless driving behind the wheel of the highly powered Camaro, which led to speeding tickets and a suspended license, **Stearn was pressured to sell the car by his concerned girlfriend.**
>**Giving in, he sold it for $2,500 - $1,000 more than he’d bought it for.**
>As reported by Auto Evolution, after selling the car, Stearn continued to receive phone calls from enthusiasts enquiring about it - leading to Stearn becoming suspicious of its true value.
>One of the callers later revealed to him that he’d in fact sold a true rarity, **a one-in-five first-generation Camaro Z/28 RS, model year 1969,** for small change.
>Years later, in 1984, and now a wealthy man, Stearns began searching for his lost Camaro, which eventually **stumbled across it in 2019 at a Scottsdale auction where he repurchased it for $150,000**.
>The new total represents sixty times more than **what he got for it in 1981**, and a full hundred-fold than **what he paid for it in 1979 - exactly four decades on.**
>Stearn recently showed the car, now fully restored and still original, [in a sit-down chat with comedian and famous gearhead Jay Leno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuDccPQMXlE).
I don't think he should feel gutted about it. Sounds like he was going through an irresponsible phase in his life and getting rid of it was part of his journey to mature up and literally become a billionaire.
Loads of people pay more than $150k for college and never see this kind of success. It's a proportionately cheap life lesson for his path.
Also it's such a huge amount of time between selling.
The article title makes it seem like they sold it for $2500 a few years ago and then it turns out he sold it for less than it was worth.
Instead he actually made a $1000 profit 40 years ago.
While it’s a huge jump in value, his life circumstances changed a lot more. I bet the 2500 for him at 16 was worth a lot more to him personally than the 150k was in 2019.
Met an older guy couple of months ago who sold an original 67 Shelby GT500 and another late 60s mustang(it was black and gold don’t remember the trim) back in the 80s for barely anything to put together money for his son’s college. He still had pictures from when he listed the cars. Guy said it’s the biggest mistake he ever made because selling them today would put all of his grand children through college.
I'm sure lots of people who bought muscle cars in the 60's & 70's eventually regretted selling them so soon without sitting on them longer. Some classic muscle cars can sell for as much as a million dollars at an auction.
I had a 78 Z 28 with a factory 4 speed manual, a 79 6.6 trans am and a 84 mustang 5.0 with a manual. They were all disposable and keeping them as an investment would be like you keeping a 2021 Camry. It didn’t resonate.
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