Armenian BMP-1ZU with dual 23mm cannon on top

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slapping_rabbits@reddit

This looks legit but honestly I'm no expert so tell me why it's shit.

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gayphextwink@reddit

Neither am I an expert but I can see a few pros and cons to this configuration.

Pros:

Obviously, extra firepower. The 73mm Grom is notorious for being underpowered and short ranged, so a ZSU on top would be a reliable direct fire weapon for engaging lightly armoured vehicles while the Grom can be focused on buildings and entrenched infantry.
Defence against helicopters and low flying attack aircraft, or in a modern combat environment, drones.

Cons:

The BMP-1 engine was notoriously underpowered and the extra weight of the ZSU and the ammunition would have reduced performance.
Where is the ammunition being stored? The BMP-1 is cramped as is, and extra 23mm belts would need to be stuffed into the infantry compartment, reducing it's capability as an IFV.
If the vehicle is disabled/destroyed, you didn't just lose an IFV, you also lost an anti-air gun.
It appears to me that in order to fire the ZSU, the gunner needs to open the hatch and expose himself. Not only does that render him vulnerable, it also means the Grom/PKT cannot be fired when the ZSU is being operated. Unless you have a guy hitching a ride on top.

If anyone here knows more about this specific vehicle or armoured vehicle design in general, I'd be interested in more information.

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Disastrous_Ad_1859@reddit

It appears to me that in order to fire the ZSU, the gunner needs to open the hatch and expose himself. Not only does that render him vulnerable, it also means the Grom/PKT cannot be fired when the ZSU is being operated. Unless you have a guy hitching a ride on top.

The point that the gun is slaved to the elevation of the main gun would suggest that the gunner likely has a remote trigger

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gayphextwink@reddit

Good eye, didn't pay much attention to the elevation of the weapons at first.

This raises the question, does the gunner use a separate sight for the ZSU, or does he use the standard sight affixed to the Grom?

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Again inferring - the ZU-23 looks like it’s angled downwards compared to the Grom (instead of both being parallel to each other) so I would assume that they have calibrated it to a specific range on the Groms sight

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RizzOreo@reddit

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2017/03/field-disassembly-bmp-1.html?m=1 Is a good detailed article on the BMP-1 in general. From the pictures of the turret roof, the ZSU looks like it would significantly hinder the opening of the hatch.

There is also the fact that the gunner cannot traverse the turret while firing the gun, since the gunner has to use the handles inside the turret, and then contort himself to fire the ZSU. Of course, considering that ZSU seems to be used in most footage to fire into stationary buildings, it may not be that big of an issue.

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gayphextwink@reddit

Thanks, looks like an interesting read.

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Shaun_Jones@reddit

It massively increases the target profile, isn’t particularly accurate, disables the ATGM launcher, and only has three seconds of fire before someone has to get out of the vehicle to reload the ammo boxes manually.

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DerringerOfficial@reddit

To be fair, based on the security needs of Armenia, wouldn’t that anti-air capability to counter Azerbaijan’s Turkish drones be more valuable than the ATGM?

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thelordchonky@reddit

Yeah that's what I was thinking, especially since they just got done fighting off Azeri-owned Turkish Bayraktars like, three years ago.

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Plump_Apparatus@reddit

isn’t particularly accurate

Eh? The 73mm Grom had a 50% chance to hit a static tank sized target at 500 meters. The Zu-23-2 is about a thousand times more accurate.

disables the ATGM launcher

It isn't likely to have a Malyutka ATGM regardless. It ceased to be a part of the BMP-1 starting with the BMP-1P in 1979. All older BMP-1 in Soviet service had it removed during major overhauls. It is extremely rare to see one anymore, unless it's a Vietnamese BMP-1 who still comically manufacture Malyutkas.

There is a common misconception that the BMP-1 gained a Konkurs ATGM when the Malyutka. It did not. They welded on a stud to the turret roof so that a crew served 9P135M launcher could be mounted without the tripod, for a Fagot or Konkurs ATGM.

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