Elon Musk on “Taxes, Taxes, Taxes, Taxes" — Is the Government Spending Too Much?
Posted by ENVYisEVIL@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 111 comments
beast_mode209@reddit
I hate that anyone would be mad at this.
NotADogIzswear2020@reddit
It isn't that I believe people are mad at this...or even him, IMO. They probably find it funny that somebody whose companies depend on government subsidies is talking about government efficiency.
Do I hope that the oxymoronic department of government efficiency actually makes progressive cuts....hell yeah!
But I am not holding my breath
Paranoid__Android@reddit
He has argued several times that Tesla does not need subsidies, rather subsidies should be cut and let Tesla and others evolve to the point where its a viable business without.
afropuff9000@reddit
Classic case of pull the ladder up behind you once you’re at the top.
Paranoid__Android@reddit
Nope. He has argued for no Ladder even early in his life.
HODL_monk@reddit
The ladder should never have been there in the first place, but we, like Musk, have to use the tools that exist, if we are ever to change things. Any Libertarian that actually wants to get in charge of the Leviathan really must likewise take matching funds, even though they are anathema to our policies, because we need every weapon we can use to ever have even the slightest chance to win, because we for sure will never win with nothing but the pure logic of our positions.
PsychoPenguin66@reddit
I hate that every time Libertarian principles start advancing in the mainstream, I come to this sub and find a bunch of people complaining about it. They're almost as bad as the woke purists. This is the most ground Libertarianism has gained in 100 years, and it's not good enough because they don't like who's promoting it.
10PieceMcNuggetMeal@reddit
Thank God. Actual Libertarians are here. I was so confused by most of the comments in here. I haven't been in this sub in awhile, did it get over run by boot lickers?
UuuBetcha@reddit
This is obviously in good-faith, coming from the guy who has lined his pockets with 100’s of BILLION$ of our tax dollars 🙃
KansasZou@reddit
He paid $11bn in taxes just last year. For the record, his tax bill would be something like the 180th wealthiest person on the planet (their entire net worth, but in one year).
UuuBetcha@reddit
And he’s doing everything in his power to avoid doing that ever again, including shifting the tax burden to the rest of us.
KansasZou@reddit
None of us need to be paying these taxes. Thats why we’re trying to eliminate government spending.
UuuBetcha@reddit
“We” is doing a lot of lifting in that sentence, brother. I promise you that Elon’s goal is not to “reduce spending for the good of the average taxpayer” but rather, Elon’s goal is to help Elon. Period. Anyone who believes otherwise is a mark b
Barskor1@reddit
There is this thing called projection....
UuuBetcha@reddit
I agree. It’s easy to project libertarian fantasies onto unprincipled actors. It always comes back to bite us in the ass, but “libertarians” keep doing it nonetheless
Barskor1@reddit
What evidence do you have that Elon is unprincipled?
UuuBetcha@reddit
He built his empire on government subsidies (which I should explain, since apparently you’re not libertarian: govt subsidies are very much oppositional to libertarian principles).
Barskor1@reddit
That is it? Do you know what fiduciary responsibility is? It means he legally has to act in the best interests of investors which means he CAN NOT ignore millions to billions of currency being available to use for the company. Now he has advocated for all subsidies being eliminated for all businesses but until then he has to take them as a matter of obeying the law.
UuuBetcha@reddit
So, according to your own words, you believe that he is going to go against his fiduciary responsibility by eliminating the subsidies that he used to build his fortune?! Do you seriously believe that?!
Barskor1@reddit
He can only be held liable of not taking them if the subsidies exist and recommending that they be ended and it being done legally by congress makes it not his responsibility that they went away just as he is not responsible for them existing in the first place.
UuuBetcha@reddit
Want some mustard with that pretzel?
Barskor1@reddit
No I want an actual logical rebuttal rather than mindless snark
UuuBetcha@reddit
Sorry for the snark, I’m just so annoyed by fake libertarians rolling out the red carpet for a bunch of definitively non-libertarian grifters.
Barskor1@reddit
Indeed, Worst case nothing much happens with DOGE and the Titanic keeps on doing its thing and we just need to be ready to prevent the hamster wheel of government history from turning once more.
KansasZou@reddit
Be honest here: what about Elon and his choices lead you to believe that money making is his primary driver in life?
UuuBetcha@reddit
The main factor here is that I’m not naive
Barskor1@reddit
Elon could be on a beach banging super models like a carpenter bangs nails yet he is still working 100 hour weeks have a nice day
Barskor1@reddit
The differance is he actually delivered on his contracts so you got what you paid for.
UuuBetcha@reddit
Oh really?! Then where is the hyperloop?
The only thing he “delivered” was the syphoned tax money for himself and his shareholders, which he achieved by convincing rubes that he’s actually successful
mcnello@reddit
Did you throw away the "stimulus" check the government sent you in 2020?
You realize that those checks were inflationary, right?!
Hypocrite!!!
UuuBetcha@reddit
Those checks were a cup of coffee. Elon’s subsidies are a mountain of cocaine. But go off king.
mcnello@reddit
So it's ok if you grift off the government just a little bit?
Barskor1@reddit
Did Tesla lobby forEV subsidies? No did he say they should be eliminated? Yes. Have a nice day...
mcnello@reddit
That's exactly what my point was.
OrvilleJClutchpopper@reddit
The principle remains the same. It's just a matter of degree.
UuuBetcha@reddit
Ok then. So have you driven on a highway? Then you are a commie and have no right to espouse libertarian ideals. I expect you will never return to this subreddit, commie.
OrvilleJClutchpopper@reddit
That's a pretty hot take. All I'm saying is, in principle, there is no difference between the government handing out Covid "stimulus" checks to the citizens and issuing "stimulus" grants to companies like SpaceX. You only see a difference because one benefits you personally and the other benefits "big bad rich person".
And yes, I've driven on public roads. Yes, I cashed my stimulus checks. And I have no problem with Elon taking advantage of a government program to make a buck. I do have a problem with the existance of such a government program in the 1st place. I have no problem with Trump et al. taking all the deductions available to lower their taxes. I do have a problem with the tax code being written in a way that benefits the wealthy disproportionately. I do not, however, want to tax the rich at 95% or whatever fool numbers the envious have deemed sufficient.
For those with critical thinking skills, it is possible to take advantage of government largess and still believe it needs to be curtailed, if not eliminated altogether.
UuuBetcha@reddit
Where we differ tho is: now that Elon has his hands on the levers, you think he’s going to REDUCE how much tax money the govt gives him (???), whereas I see this clearly for the opportunity Elon has to direct MORE tax dollars to himself. What smart business person (who built their fortune on govt subsidies btw) is going to turn off those subsidies when they have the opportunity to open the spigot further??
afropuff9000@reddit
This is the answer. Should government be more effective sure. What does that look like is a good argument to have. But for HIM of all people to harp on this when everything he’s done has been with US tax dollars is fucking rich.
Barskor1@reddit
Wow you sound like a Commie
ooolongt@reddit
And let’s not forget, he’d hate to be taxed at the same rate you and I are.
EditorStatus7466@reddit
This has got the same energy as Trump going out and admitting he uses taxoopholes. In this regard they're more moral than any other bsstard who pushes for more taxes for their benefit.
He's a businessman, not an idiot. If he wasn't willing to get that easy funding, someone else would do it
Large-Lab3871@reddit
100% . There aren’t many people who would not if they could. If I could use loopholes to save or make me money I would for sure. It’s not illegal to do so.
just_a_un@reddit
This is it. If there weren’t government funding for big businesses they wouldn’t get tax dollars. They are right for taking advantage of it, everyone would. Shut it down!!!
UuuBetcha@reddit
You must love Brett Farve
Defiant_Homework4577@reddit
Socialism for the rich, anarcho capitalism for the poor.. go figure..
Barskor1@reddit
As a capitalist are you going to leave the dirty socialism money on the table or are you going to take it and put it to work?
Fippy-Darkpaw@reddit
Would you rather Musk spend money on rescuing stranded NASA astronauts?
Or would you rather the current US government spends tax dollars on bombing Gaza to rubble, starting WW3 with Russia, and importing murderers like the dude who just murdered Laken Riley? 🤷♀️
UuuBetcha@reddit
How much did it cost to import Laken’s murderer??
Fippy-Darkpaw@reddit
Several thousand at least. He got put up in hotels and then flown from NY to Georgia where he hunted down a college girl.
UuuBetcha@reddit
Having researched, it seems like you have bogus sources. Anyway, I’m sick of Elon taking my tax dollars for his private ventures. And the fact you aren’t…well, maybe you’re in the wrong subreddit.
Fippy-Darkpaw@reddit
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/laken-riley-suspect-jose-ibarra-may-have-taken-humanitarian-flight-from-nyc-to-georgia-before-murder-ex-roommate/ar-AA1ujiKy#
Obvious_Scratch9781@reddit
Sometimes the thief wants to shut the door to others after they have stolen all they can.
Tesla wouldn’t be around without the US federal tax money and California tax money, that’s for sure.
UuuBetcha@reddit
Yes this. But Elon plans to steal more still. He just doesn’t want to contribute HIS tax dollars to the pile he’s stealing from.
Anyone who believe that this admin wants to lower taxes for middle class is a mark.
Obvious_Scratch9781@reddit
True, but I have hope they will cut the BS spending to things like gender studies in Pakistan and other things like that. I think there is a chance there and also audits on other companies that aren’t owned by buddies. Will this lower taxes on the middle class? I doubt it since we are $36T in debt.
UuuBetcha@reddit
That hope and $5 won’t get you a Starbucks coffee. Elon isn’t in it to “help the country” (and anyone who thinks so is a mark). He’s in it to help himself and his fellow yachters. Sorry to burst bubbles.
MissHotPocket@reddit
Says the biggest welfare queen to have ever existed
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
You mean Zelensky, right?
MissHotPocket@reddit
No I mean Elon, 60% of tesla net profits were from government subsidies in the second quarter this year. Also, we’re giving money to an entire country that Zelensky happens to be the president of due to the fact that we asked them to give up their nuclear arsenal and promised assistance if Russia attacked them. Which honestly we never should have.
Barskor1@reddit
Where did you get the 60% number? because Tesla's earning report is far different and if they lie on that they get fucked so cite or it's shite.
MissHotPocket@reddit
https://reason.com/2024/11/12/elon-musk-spent-118-million-to-elect-trump-what-will-he-get-in-return/?t&utm_source=perplexity
Tesla also benefits from environmental credits, which state and federal governments give out for building low-emission vehicles. “Tesla has reported around $10 billion” in sales of excess credits “since 2015,” CNBC reported last week. “Regulatory credits were about 60% of Tesla’s net income in the second quarter of 2024, and 39% in the third quarter. Other government rebates on EV sales represented about 50% of Tesla’s third-quarter profit.”
Significant_Donut967@reddit
This dude who's whole corporations are founded on "I'm gonna take as much money as I can from other people without paying back into the system".
Fuck musk, fucking corporate statist.
Barskor1@reddit
You are a commie so you have to slather everything in hate and propaganda
Significant_Donut967@reddit
Being against crony capitalism isn't the same as being a commie.
Barskor1@reddit
Taxation is slavery the percentage the master takes is meaningless other than making you less likely to rebel by taking as little as possible.
tonymontanaOSU@reddit
The fact that anyone in an actual position to do something about it is talking about cutting government spending is incredible and should be applauded. This is a good thing
AIter_Real1ty@reddit
That is, if you don't apply even a basic amount of critical thinking. You hear the words you want and don't hesitate to applaud, but if you look at things much closer with scrutiny, you'll realize this whole thing is a circus performance.
tonymontanaOSU@reddit
Of course it is, it’s politics. But if they cut government funding than it’s a win
Shakturi101@reddit
Are we nuking military, social security, Medicare, and Medicaid to help offset the decreased tax revenue?
Unverifiablethoughts@reddit
You should look into the reckless spending of our military. Particularly the navy.
Significant_Donut967@reddit
As an army vet, when I was in I watched senior leaders waste so much fucking tax dollars.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
shaunthesailor@reddit
Cloudhwk@reddit
I always loved watching my countries navy just straight up dump ammo overboard instead of firing it for training
If you’re going to wast tax dollars at least waste them effectively
Significant_Donut967@reddit
Never saw that but saw so many heat shields, laptops, medical supplies. And so much more shit just tossed when we cleaned out the Motor Pool connexes.
indifferentmeh@reddit
Sorry but doesn't the military account for ~13% of the annual budget? Is there not, oh I don't know, 87% of other things to look at?
Unverifiablethoughts@reddit
18 % and that’s in peace time. It’s the second largest spending category.
But regardless, that fact doesn’t change the issue of the military wasting literally billions of dollars every year
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Yes please.
We could cut a full 1/3 of our military budget and still outspend Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia combined... by a factor of 2:1. We spend entirely too much on our military.
Social Security is a ponzi scheme. No, literally, it's a ponzi scheme. If it were not mandated by law, it would have collapsed a long time ago.
Medicare and Medicaid need significant reform, because the amount of bloat and waste is absolutely asinine. They're basically slush funds for big pharma.
So yes, please, slash all of it.
AIter_Real1ty@reddit
They need reform, not abolition. Mindlessly cutting everything is not the way to go.
HODL_monk@reddit
Medicare and Medicaid are also Ponzi schemes, its just a little more obvious that they CANNOT go on, without massively more tax revenue than we would ever agree to spend (waste), on a few more months of life. The difference between the two is that otherwise intelligent people think that Social Security can actually work, with just a few 'tweeks' The problem is, young people have to be screwed hard, to 'save' Social Security, but at the end of the day, its just not worth saving, and in the back of most young people's minds, they instinctively realize this, but they are trapped in this system by Government Guns, and there is no organization that can save them. We would save them, but we are powerless, until we accumulate enough support to get control of the Leviathan, and there just are not enough people who believe in us, to even outnumber the hard-core RFK nutjobs, much less the Green party...
GOAT718@reddit
Decreased tax rates, don’t automatically equate to decreased revenue.
Positive-soap66@reddit
But but who’s gonna pay for the roadsssss 🤬
mcnello@reddit
We have $36 trillion in road debt /s
oracleofnonsense@reddit
lol. I was talking to someone about the “super expensive $65million high school”that I being built in my state.
I was like — We gave Ukraine/Isreal $100 billion this year. That’s 30 super expensive new high schools in every state. I wonder why people are complaining.
AIter_Real1ty@reddit
We're not giving them actual money. Its old weapons stockpiles that are actually more expensive for us to keep.
Movedonnerlikeabitch@reddit
Thats a lotta nice roads /s
SkinnyPuppy2500@reddit
I think you mean, but without government, who will mismanage that massive amount of tax money so inefficiently, that we will need new taxes to pay for the roads and bridges that are crumbling.
seenthevagrant@reddit
Those taxes get spent on his fucking businesses. Our taxes funded Tesla and space x. He jus know all you have to say is tax bad me no like taxes and every shameless libertarian is ready to deepthroat the boot
DanFradenburgh@reddit
I straight up thought he was holding a rubber chicken.
teaky@reddit
America cheers as the billionaires setup to loot our country.
Effilnuc1@reddit
Yet since the introduction of fiat currency, taxes signify the debt to the central bank is paid. Taxation is now a means of reducing the amount of money in circulation. Taxes don't pay for services, borrowing does.
HODL_monk@reddit
Yes, we live in a debt-based system, and bla bla bla, but it is fundamentally unjust, and should be dismantled. For two years out of the US's existence, it was 100 % debt free, thanks Andrew Jackson ! And because we did this thing, and the financial world and the country didn't end, we can, in fact, no matter what Stephanie Kelton says, go back to that just fine. It might be a little harder, in the short term, because debt has a cost to finally settle, but its 100 % doable, and will make things better going forward, and we can only dismantle the Leviathan one piece at a time, so lets get started.
mcnello@reddit
Found the MMT'er
breakingthejewels@reddit
Man he is not a good public speaker at all. Respect his achievements, but damn I can't listen to him talk for very long
shittymanbun@reddit
Great public speaker...
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
What have you done with your life to make you feel superior to him?
shittymanbun@reddit
Well first off, I don't say 'um' and 'yeah' every few words. I guess another accomplishment would be that none of my children hate me. Cool that you have a rich hero though!
K3V0o@reddit
Hmmm is it possible to criticize and not like someone who is richer than you? Its a hard concept but try to wrap your mind around it.
Eyerishguy@reddit
Hell to the Yeah!
"Minimum Government. Maximum Freedom!"
wilhelmfink4@reddit
“B-but Muh LiBertArIAn” imagine not voting for this as a “libertarian” you know who you are.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
We spend $9 Trillion a year. $2 Trillion of that on deficit.
Of course we spend too much.
Rvtrance@reddit
If he wants to push for less capital gain taxes (which I’m sure he is) then I’m fine with it. It’s how I make most of my money and now I’ll keep more of it. But I am hopefully cautious, I guess you could say, about Elon. That much money that close to that much power is a scary prospect. I want the government to help everyone (by staying out of their business) not just the richest of us.
Formal_Avocado972@reddit
I want to help purge government waste. This is the only acceptable political message
Tricky-Lingonberry-5@reddit
I mean he is obviously a very smart and successful guy. But don't forget that he manipulated liberal environmentalists to buy Tesla, then later he started manipulating conservative base to gain political power. So please don't melt when he starts talking about reducing government spending.
Retiredandold@reddit
Manipulated?? You mean like Ford Manipulates people to buy F-150’s or Ferrari manipulates douches to buy red cars?? What the hell are you smoking?
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
Woke-crack
HulkHunter@reddit
How does he manage to manipulate people despite being the most hated and receiving the most hostility on earth?
Throwdaho@reddit
I feel like that gradually started happening over time as something didn’t sit right with people. I remember a time everyone loved Elon.
Alternative-Appeal43@reddit
"so they can buy my absolute bait n switch scams of vehicles"
BP-arker@reddit
Reduce your government footprint!!
castingcoucher123@reddit
They can get the same taxes, but at least let me buy shit and tax what I've optioned my money towards