ULPT Request: My new workplace has been using illegal payroll rounding practices for years, but nobody else knows that the law has changed. How do I use this information to my advantage?
Posted by cuppuhdirt@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 61 comments
Essentially they use a quarter hour rounding system, where if you clock in one minute late you don't get paid until fifteen minutes later, and they make you work during that time for free. This is SUPER illegal in Washington where I work, and if I report them they are liable to pay back wages and fines per violation for every employee. My shift starts at 6 and I showed up at 6:01 three days in a row and was written up for it. They also make people work longer than 5 hours without a break on Saturdays, which is also super illegal. How do I use this information to my advantage?
Diamonddan73@reddit
Start a class action lawsuit. You will get $5-$10K for being the lead plaintiff and you will get all of the money they owe you plus penalties. Plus if they try to fire you, you can sue them for retaliatory termination.
SamizdatGuy@reddit
Yeah, calling an employment lawyer is the best way.
Significant-Lemon686@reddit
Oh a lawyer how unethical
crossdl__@reddit
If you get the right one. Someone who has barely a clue but has fancy letterhead to bully people with.
knuckles_n_chuckles@reddit
And get fired and blacklisted if people care to google your name.
mjones8709@reddit
Unless there’s an amazing chance at a class action? I can tell you from personal experience, the absolute best you can do is get yourself fired for cause by these criminals and after a LONG while, be forced to accept something like 70% of the value of the wage theft back. If there is class action- then by the time you’re in retirement perhaps your family can get a few times more than what was owed.
Nothing in our system exists to help you. It’s all a lie
i_smell_toast@reddit
Bleak
gumbo100@reddit
Ya it's unfortunately possible one's better off organizing a small group of people to do this unless it's a very clear win for everyone across the company.
MiserableKink@reddit
Arbitration agreement?
BathroomInner2036@reddit
Is SUPER illegal worse than illegal?
LittleGreenCorpse@reddit
As it turns out, 'super legal' is, in fact, illegal.
MowwiWowwi420@reddit
Believe it or not, straight to jail
LucyEmerald@reddit
Way less than "illegal as fuck" but yes more illegal than regular illegal
Matt4319@reddit
Actually better IMO, super illegal has a cape AND a theme song.
SirBastianSF@reddit
No capes!
Tight-Tower-8265@reddit
Yes but not as illegal as quadruple illegal
Monarc73@reddit
Double dawg illegal is way worse!
AdImmediate9569@reddit
Double secret probation
randy_justice@reddit
You can just be a huge dirtbag while loudly and consistently complaining about the illegal practices (bonus points if you do it in writing). This ends one of 2 ways:
1) Your employer stops doing the illegal thing Or 2) They fire you and then you can sue them for whistle-blower retaliation
Either way, you get paid
mjones8709@reddit
Neither of these outcomes are statistically viable. Unless you already have more than enough to survive on for 5+ years.
Turbulent_Swim_7242@reddit
Not in California (and the Western states).
Here, the employment laws are very cut and dried. Either the employer paid the workers properly , or they didn't. The agencies don't permit legal defenses to failure to round time punches consistently.
If they didn't, it's just a matter of a number. The state is going to levy some fines (usually starting around $10,000) but everything else that the class recovers is compensatory and punitive damages, as well as attorney's fees and costs of litigation, like Court fees.
randy_justice@reddit
You don't seem to know how employment law works. But, ya know, sound off with your very uninformed opinion if you want to
AFresh1984@reddit
Lol you must live in a Republican state
Matty_Cay@reddit
Clock out 1 minute late for 15 minutes of OT
astanix@reddit
No way will that work. It's going to round down on the clock out for sure.
Terrible_Analysis_77@reddit
Which is the illegal part. Has to be even Steven.
Turbulent_Swim_7242@reddit
Correct.
So keep doing it so that you can show every time they round up for clocking IN, but they round down for clocking OUT.
Then, you take that to the State Labor Department, and ask for a referral to a Class Action Litigation Specialist who has enough resources to investigate the time records of every single employee in the company, going back to when the law was changed.
THEN, you ask the Class Action lawyer to get some Punitive Damages - because the employer knows they are doing it, but they keep doing it anyway because they've been getting away with it for so long.
Make sure you sue the Company's owners and Shareholders as individual defendants, so that if the business files Ch. 11 Bankruptcy, you can get judgments against the owners' personal assets.
MsChrisRI@reddit
It’s especially shitty to illegally make you work for free AND ALSO write you up for being one minute late. The underpayment should already be punishment enough.
Sooo… Next time you’re slightly late, you may as well relax in the break room without clocking in until 6:14. Take photos /videos at your arrival time and your clock-in time. If/when they fire you for this, apply for unemployment and rat them out to your state’s labor department. You should already be applying for jobs elsewhere, so that your downtime will be short.
VixenTraffic@reddit
Just report them so they will have to give you all the pay you are owed.
unwittyusername42@reddit
Install a virus that rounds all their transactions down a fraction of a cent and put those fractions in a seperate account. Just don't mess up the decimal.
RadchaiiGloves@reddit
You’ll never be able to “out-unethical” a company so don’t try. They’ll win with experience.
peterodactyl@reddit
Dawg you don't need unethical tips for this, the ethical ones will work better.
kerridge@reddit
I think you may be able to hack the mainframe and divert all excess half cents to your account?
milliondollarboots@reddit
It’s like Superman 3
blaspheminCapn@reddit
And office space
Savings-Expression80@reddit
"make you work during that time for free"?
Um... How? Like with whips?
Explain you aren't getting paid and don't have to work yet.
Artistic_Donut_9561@reddit
I had a job like this before, we had to work the full 15 minutes or we wouldn't be paid so the managers would always squeeze another 10 out of everyone and tell us to clock out. I always took a detour to the stock room to make sure I got paid for it. This is ethical though I think 🤔
allonsy_badwolf@reddit
This is how my job used to be, it sucked. New payroll lady would give a few minutes grace (still technically illegal rounding as you can’t round on both sides of the punch in favor of the employer at my state).
Then I took over and we got new clocks that work on a 7.5 minute round to be legal. But I also won’t dock if say someone punches in at 7:07 and out at 3:53, they just get paid for the full shift. If they punch at 6:53 they can get 2 hours of OT for the week. I don’t care enough to babysit time cards like that, leave early for all I care.
J-Dabbleyou@reddit
So you want to go to court over back pay of 14 min a few times? Idk bro
CascadeWaterMover@reddit
Bob Ferguson's AG office is very labor friendly and will go after these types of businesses that prey on workers. He just got elected as the Governor of Washington, but I assume the new AG, Nick Brown will continue their strict enforcement of business overreach. Good luck!
whatashittyargument@reddit
Hush money payment
LetsthinkAboutThi_s@reddit
Find your CEO online. Make fake account. Blackmail them to pay you for silence and in crypto, showing them that you have proof beforehand (not connected with real you in any way). When they pay, report them to authorities anyway and add the logs of your fake account conversations with CEO as additional proof. Do not tell anyone that you got the money, claiming that you recorded their positive response to pay you and went to the authorities immediately and all this was not to extort money, but to prove you're right and you just sent them random sequence of letters and numbers you saw on the internet(cryptowallet address looks exactly like such sequence). Wait for couple of years, go to vacation abroad, cash out part of this money in cryptoexchange booths and return home with +9999 USD, because you don't need to declare them going through the border. Repeat until you cash everything out.
mjones8709@reddit
lol but seriously, maybe don’t try to punch outside your weight class. This is likely intended to be humor but factually, it’s suicide
CookieWifeCookieKids@reddit
If you’re asking here you probably shouldn’t be doing it. That goes for anything; basket weaving, crime, wheelies.
IndyAndyJones777@reddit
You should only ever break the law after admitting to it on the internet. Even if you're just planning to drive over the speed limit. Confess on the internet first.
mjones8709@reddit
I’d try getting into the vague ‘crime’ one might imagine before ever thinking about blackmailing a CEO. Unless one enjoys picking fights they know they will be brutally killed in
CookieWifeCookieKids@reddit
Wait, all that for $9999usd?
At least no one will ever try to catch you. So kind of a perfect crime.
CouchPullsOutidont@reddit
Complain about the practices. Keep doing your job well until they make up a reason to fire you (they sound like the type).
Sue for wrongful termination. File as the lead plaintiff with the DOL. Collect the penalties and back pay.
Wouldn’t hurt to lawyer up before all this.
Flaky-Wallaby5382@reddit
The ethical tip is let the labor board know! Pretty sure you get a % plus your own back wages.
It’s on them to prove it.
mjones8709@reddit
That’s not even what govt agencies claim on their boilerplate. I don’t have any personal anecdote for a success case here but what I have seen has been sufficient to make any reasonable petal disengage entirely and find a new employer.
Flaky-Wallaby5382@reddit
Oh fuck yes get out of dodge
mjones8709@reddit
It’s not an acceptable outcome but unfortunately it is possibly the only one
Zaddycake@reddit
Get Jesse
Impossible_Ad661@reddit
Show up to work on time.
Maleficent_Tax_5217@reddit
Why are you on this subreddit?
Impossible_Ad661@reddit
I mean showing up late to work 3 days in a row is kind of irresponsible. I usually can help this subreddit but i think the best advice would be to show up to work on time. 3 days in a row is pathetic
SamizdatGuy@reddit
So is wage theft. Fuck this company.
Maleficent_Tax_5217@reddit
Well this is not responsible subreddit and op:s employer is bending the rules so..
AbriefDelay@reddit
Found the manager.
GnPQGuTFagzncZwB@reddit
You can call the DOL, but, do not expect them to come running out the next day. I live in a place with below average unemployment and they are crazy busy with that, to the point where people with jobs that are abusing the law, are not a priority. That being said, once you get something into the system, it's day will come. It just might be 3 years from now. If you can get more people to complain and you can show it is a lot of money as opposed to a small amount, that may help it get moved to the top faster. Or a previous offender.
Potential-Badger381@reddit
Whistleblower case? You’d get a cut of the judgement