Need advice…should I move to the US? 20,000+ hrs TT
Posted by locblue@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 88 comments
51M, 20,000+ TT, All widebody 777/340, PIC for the past 17 yrs, 29 yrs with a top asian legacy, ICAO ATP, presently earning US$400K pretax (low tax country), spouse is a US citizen
Need advice...I've been commuting to the US from asia for the past decade. It's amazing i've done it this long, but i'm sick of it. Love my job and airline, but i may have to make some changes. Considering a move to the US, get a Green Card through my spouse, convert to FAA ATP, then apply to US airlines. I've heard hiring has significantly slowed down or even paused. Should i risk quitting my job to apply to US carriers with my experience listed above? Bit of a chicken and egg situation as i have to reside in the US during the Green Card approval process, and so have to quit my present job or at least take some form of unpaid leave. What are my chances of getting hired in the present hiring environment? I'm willing to wait while living in the US. Sufficient savings, spouse works, etc. Appreciate any input. Tks
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EpicDude007@reddit
You can apply for a green card and get a travel permit, while your case is pending. If you’ll have to reside in the US, you’ll probably have to file US taxes as well. Unless you are out of the country for more than half the year, 185 days according to some. There are some instances where you can apply for a green card from abroad. That would be my first step in order to not give up that income until you are ready.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Yes, taxes was one of the reasons I held off the GC for so long, but now maybe it’s time. Big tax increase since we’ll be filing jointly.
Applying for GC from overseas, aka Consular Processing, is no go as it bars me from entering the US until it’s approved. Adjustment of Status is preferred, with the exit permit option while processing
Cunning_Stun@reddit
Incorrect - you can come and go as you please on B1/B2 or C1/D while the application is in
mediumwee@reddit
My wife applied via the consular process but was able to continue to use her tourist visa to live with me 6 months at a time. The big thing we were told by a lawyer was to never overstay and always be honest when asked why you are visiting the US. Maybe this is a possibility for you?
butthole_lipliner@reddit
Just FYI, the travel permit can sometimes take just as long as the green card does to be approved.
USCIS is extremely nuanced and OP would be best served speaking to an immigration attorney before making any career decisions.
stahlwillepilot@reddit
This makes no sense, commuting to the US for an Asian Legacy? Either way, you are surely top 25% seniority where you are and only 14 years of flying left in the US so no chance to get anywhere near that kind of seniority.
If it really is untenable, make the move, but I can't see the benefit. You'd be better off working in Asia until you can't stand it anymore, then move to the US and pick up a corporate job close to home for the lifestyle you want. If your wife has family by a legacy base, that's a fine pick also.
Good luck!
locblue@reddit (OP)
Seniority counts for very little in asian carriers, unlike in the US. The lack of roster flexibility to facilitate my commute is the biggest stress point.
MTBandGravel@reddit
The commute sucks, but are you able to get U.S. layovers in your home city? That could almost make it bearable.
locblue@reddit (OP)
I do get layovers in LA where my family used to. I’ve been averaging 10-14 days home every month (including layovers) for the past decade
butter-fruit@reddit
Omg! If you’re spending 10-14 days at home you should just stay put at your job. Starting from the bottom is not going to improve your QOL if anything punish you more.
MTBandGravel@reddit
That’s not really terrible terribly considering your commute. For reference, I’m top 50% at a legacy living in base and I average 15-18.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
This is a good read if you’re bored and goes pretty deep about how flying in Asia is different from US.
Grumbles19312@reddit
Think you missed the OP’s point. He doesn’t want to commute, so he’s asking if it’s worth it to get the green card/citizenship in the US, convert to FAA, and work for a carrier in the US.
joshsafc9395@reddit
As someone who just got a green card via spouse it took 3 years to process so I would not bank on it being particularly efficient to get especially with the upcoming administration likely to be tougher on immigration matters.
Just food for your consideration
locblue@reddit (OP)
Wow, that’s much longer than I thought. Any complications in your case?
Kitesurf11@reddit
Right now the process time is at least 18 months unfortunately. There are exceptions of course but you can check at r/USCIS and gather more info
joshsafc9395@reddit
Nope. As straightforward a case as can be. Just caught the tail end of the backlog from covid shutting down USCIS offices. A lot depends on the USCIS office where you apply. Some can take 3 months, others far longer than mine too
butthole_lipliner@reddit
This this this. I love how many people on this thread are handing unfounded advice out like candy, blissfully unaware of how much of a nightmare the green card process is in real life.
OP is going to be in for a rude awakening when they actually speak to an immigrant attorney who knows that the hell they’re talking about.
Hdjskdjkd82@reddit
As someone who has dealt with immigration, my first word of advice would be the reframe the question. It’s not really a “Asian Widebody Captain or to be USA Legacy Pilot”, but rather “Do I want to stay here for my career or pursue a US green card/move in with my wife, etc”. You need to take that piloting aspect out this question because there’s so many “if’s”, to be able to reach a point where you can seriously consider a US airline career. There is potential but nothing is actually realized until the opportunity is actually given and you have many roads to cross. First you need a green card, airline recruiters won’t even bother looking at your application unless you met this requirement, no one will want to touch you till the . Next is by the time you get a green card, are airlines even going to consider someone with you experience, can you interview well. Even guys with 10k hours are getting turned down by legacies these days. They look for more than just flight time and type ratings. Another big potential obstacle to remember despite the fact you are an airline captain today, in the FAA eyes that doesn’t matter and you can’t be a captain here until you have 1000 hours in the right seat of a US 121 airline operation. Some employers may value that, some may not. You can do all that work to try to get here only for no opportunity to be around by the time you get here (or even better than before. We can’t really know what they’ll be looking for in the future).
The best thing you can do is if you decide you want to live in the US, despite the airline career. If you do, full send! Definitely worth it imo if you want to be closer to your spouse and end the long commute. But if it’s just the career you’re looking for, you’re going to be in for a lot of stress and a lot of uncertainty to get that point. If it doesn’t work out, what then? Start a new career entirely or go back to the old job?
butthole_lipliner@reddit
I agree with this take.
The decision tree is: do I want to live with my family, instead of just hanging out with them every 2 weeks… or, do I want to be a pilot until I retire?
I would be very interested in the logistics of how/why OP has (presumably) a family and American spouse and yet has been doing this long commute for over ten years. I can only assume OP’s American Spouse took a student break in HK and came back with a ring or knocked up.
I can imagine how hard it must be to change course once you’ve gotten used to eating cake whilst having it too 🤷♀️
Fr00tman@reddit
Not aviation, but my wife is a physician (in a rural area with huge incentives) and has colleagues who have taken FOREVER to get green cards, work visas, etc. I’d be especially wary right now with the incoming administration - not only based on their positions, but also bc any time there’s a change, things seem to get shuffled and delayed.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
I was very close with a naturalization case that occurred under former/incoming admin. After some attorney consultations it was revealed to me that Believe it or not the WH has pretty limited power to tell immigration that they’re only allowed to approve X amount of requests per quarter/year. What they are however able to do is direct immigration to scrutinize apps more heavily. A small error that maybe would be overlooked previously may now be grounds to bounce the whole case back . In short with an immigration lawyer and well filled, clean paperwork you won’t get denied. However it might take longer depending on the volume of requests/ gov shutdowns etc. So, I wouldn’t be too worried about which admin is in the WH.
mediumwee@reddit
I have hard that too much experience can be a deal breaker at some airlines. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is, it seems like someone with that much experience might run into that problem.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
I wouldn’t say so. I think the stigma used to be more against 20+ RJ pilots with 20k hrs. But I think it’s more of a wives’ tale. As long as there’s a successful training track record showing ability to learn and adapt, it shouldn’t be an issue.
blakepilot@reddit
At my airline, you'd probably get a CJO pretty quick with your resume, but class date might be a little far out. The peak of your career here at your age would be mid-seniority widebody FO or mid-seniority narrowbody captain depending on your base. Will it be better than commuting to the other side of the planet? Yep. Will you ever have interesting flying like you've been accustomed to? Nope. Will you ever be industry/company crisis-proof at your age and seniority progression potential? Maybe, maybe not? Will you ever make $400k USD pretax again? Also maybe, but it won't be anytime soon and it will be long days for months on end. We're all pure seniority here, so YMMV and subject to change at any given time. Times are great right now, but always something looming over the horizon waiting to chop us down again.
If you were to ask me the same question in reverse, my answer would probably be no, not worth it with only 14 years of shelf life left. However, if it's not a purely money thing for you and you want to take the financial hit for real QOL, then jump right in because you'll claw your life back it sounds.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
14 years to go. Probably 6 months to a year to get the green card and ratings converted. With your stats you’ll be hired anywhere. Wait on class dates across the big 3 is variable between 7-11 months from what it seems like. Considering everything stays the same. You’ll have 12 years left conservatively. A lot can happen in 2 years, so there’s some risk.
Is your house in order? Kids? Any debt? Retirement savings? If all those things are looking good, then I’d risk it. 12 years of no commute isn’t bad. No one will ever take away your WB experience. But you probably won’t retire a WB CA from any U.S. carrier.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Yes, the timeline sounds about right. The main motivation is to spend more time with my kids before they leave the nest, which is in the next 3-4 yrs. House in CA is owned, low interest mortgage, plenty of equity and retirement savings
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Your kids will never remember your layovers or type ratings, but will remember the time with you. I’d go for it. Start the process for the green card. With your spouse being a citizen you already have a leg up. If in doubt consult an immigration lawyer.
I don’t see why you can’t continue flying in Asia while applying, but there might be a requirement to spend X amount of time in the U.S. It’s a 100% a requirement for the citizenship, but it’s been so long I can’t remember if it’s there for the GC too.
butthole_lipliner@reddit
Most visas consider leaving the United States an “abandonment of application” while green card status is pending. I don’t think advanced parole is granted on a recurring basis so it would probably be impossible for someone to leave the country for work as often as OP does. If I’m remembering things correctly the I-485 is for one time emergency use like having to go back to your country of origin to attend a funeral.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Yes this is what I was remembering.
butthole_lipliner@reddit
Made another comment about this but please do yourself and plan for a minimum of 12 months to go through USCIS. Perhaps the agency is running a bit smoother now but it took us two years for husband (with well established work history in US, property owner here, living/working on company sponsored visa at time of application) to complete the green card process. Had a top attorney in our corner but the government moves like molasses.
Plan for 12+ months, that way you can be pleasantly surprised by anything sooner, and save yourself some stress when you inevitably hit a few government bullshit speed bumps.
ce402@reddit
Oldest guy in my new hire class was a 62 year old from Cathay.
Work on converting, get your green card, and apply to the legacy with a base where you live, and enjoy that narrow body life.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Never flown narrow body, so it’s kinda scary but I won’t miss crossing 120 time zones every few weeks
precense_@reddit
can I ask where from and to you're commuting to in the US? I live in the US but thinking about living in asia and commuting like you are. please list pros and cons and any nuisances you've learned from your 10 years of commuting
Fi3sty1nstruct0r0110@reddit
You’ll be fine.
Law-of-Poe@reddit
Was he Australian?
ce402@reddit
He had an accent, can’t remember for sure. It was a big class.
Pintail21@reddit
Until you get the right to work AND a CJO, this is just spinning your wheels. So get both and then you have a decision to make. It sounds like you'd take a massive pay cut and massive seniority hit, but if moving to the US is worth it then it's worth it.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Sorry, stupid question…what’s a CJO?
Pintail21@reddit
Conditional job offer, basically you’re hired as long as you can pass training, pass a background check, drug test, etc
laughie1@reddit
conditional job offer
OpinionatedPoster@reddit
Updateme
bryan2384@reddit
My greencard process was anything buy a nightmare, honestly. Got it after a few years of being married, and a citizen now.
OpinionatedPoster@reddit
Not sure which airline you are working now, but in the current situation I would advise you against changing it to a US carrier, no matter what you hear. Retired dispatcher here, worked for the top three US airlines, and as you know we are close to the pilots, talk a lot and know what happens to the companies. Currently, as difficult as it sounds, you have the best job, I would not recommend you to change it. There might be a way for you to apply for a green card and still keep working your current job. Next time you're in the States, consult an immigration attorney (or two) it is true you have to reside in the US but that law cannot prevent you from making a living, so there might be a way for you. Good luck to you, and I hope you'll find the optimal situation for you and the Mrs. Can she move in your country?
throwaway642246@reddit
Apply first, don’t quit your job until you have a CJO and a class date.
With that level of experience you’ll be able to waltz into any major barring anything insane in your background that you are leaving out.
EpicDude007@reddit
He needs a green card first.
Tiny-Let-7581@reddit
Better hurry before Trump puts a stop to them
lordtema@reddit
Stupid question i guess, but i have heard of pilots coming over on H1B visas if they have sufficient experience, would that not be a possibility for OP given that he already has a spouse here?
butthole_lipliner@reddit
It’s tricky and I tried to erase all of this info from my brain after dealing with USCIS for years on end, but there’s a bit of a weird chicken and egg scenario when mixing work and marriage based intent. Like in my case, our attorney told us specifically not to get married until my husband was no longer utilizing an ESTA because technically it’s supposed to be a non-immigrant visa. H1B is also “non-immigrant” but is eligible for AOS, or adjustment of status, through the normal immigration process. I don’t believe it’s possible to adjust the other way around, so if OP is already married to a US citizen and has never held work rights in the US otherwise, they would then need to file for an IR1 or a K3 visa, and I’m not sure what the right to work implications are for either of those.
I can only assume (unless I missed this?) that the OP is working on some sort of E visa, which, if that’s the case I’m not sure what the “correct” path forward is since he’s already married to a US citizen.
primalbluewolf@reddit
H1B is nonimmigrant. That is, if you leave the job, you leave the country. Any evidence of intent to immigrate and they can refuse the visa.
Yesthisisme50@reddit
There’s no lack of pilots applying so no airline is going to sponsor someone
EpicDude007@reddit
That would be sponsored by the company. Spirit had it for a while while hiring was super strong.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
It wouldn't be an H1B, I think it's a new visa. But it's not common. Most airlines do not sponsor visas
throwaway642246@reddit
He’d be getting it through his spouse which is all but a guarantee.
rogerdoesnotmeanyes@reddit
Doesn’t mean it will be quick though.
throwaway642246@reddit
My BIL just went through this with his wife from the UK. They hired an immigration lawyer who handled everything. It only cost a few thousand USD and it took a few months.
butthole_lipliner@reddit
lol your BIL got extremely extremely lucky. I sponsored my hubby (Ireland), who on an H1B after converting an ESTA. High value profession, he had been in the US for 4 years by the time we put his case in, and married for 3 of those.
Took two years from the day our attorney submitted the packet for him to receive the green card. I think he was queued for the medical review for over 9 of those, once he finally got his appointment literally all they did was sign a form, give him a tetanus shot and he was out in 15 minutes. Then queued for the interview which was waived after months of being told he would beee to prep for that as well. He was not allowed to leave the country the entire time. It was a complete shitshow.
theoriginalturk@reddit
The process to submit for a green card, yeah that can take a few months
The current processing time for immediate family members of U.S citizens is 10-16 months
It’s not a quick process by any means
EpicDude007@reddit
The company wouldn’t wait. Source: Me. I went through the whole interview process because my green card status was approved and “in the mail.” This took much longer than expected and the company rescinded the offer.
Big_OOOO@reddit
Did you not walk out of the interview with a permanent resident stamp in your passport? I did.
EpicDude007@reddit
No. I had gotten my green card through my wife, but I did not have the physical card yet. The company (think bigger regional) didn’t issue work visas.
Rough_Engineering743@reddit
Set your expectations for 200k per year before taxes, this assumes a year 3 FO at a major airline. I don't know if quick upgrades will be a thing here pretty soon. With that said , as long as your lifestyle is <200k, It should workout fine . But don't expect to quickly ascend back to a 400k lifestyle, probably won't get to that level for 5 years assuming things stay as they are.
But if you have some money saved for an indefinite pay cut . Come on over, hopefully wherever you choose to work has a base close to where you live. Commuting of any kind would be a wash for you.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Spouse does about 250-300k.
Rough_Engineering743@reddit
Your spouse most definitely picks up open time or premium trips then if they're an FO . Open time and premium trips should not be included in financial planning.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Non-flying, tech job
Rough_Engineering743@reddit
Sorry . Didn't realize you were the OP . Then that's fine . I think you'll be fine and you'll at least have a better quality. Not having to commute is huge . Make the jump, worst case scenario, like an indefinite hiring freeze, with your qualifications you'll be able to get a sim gig making about 10k a month.
KehreAzerith@reddit
Okay let's be real, you're super over qualified, you have more experience than 99% of pilots right now trying to apply to airlines. There are people who've only ever flown tiny cessnas getting jobs.
Moving to the US and transitioning over your certifications will take time. As long as you can afford to not work for a while until you get things settled it shouldn't be a problem. Your resume will be glowing bright like a gold plate, you shouldn't have any trouble getting hired with the airlines when they open applications.
JT-Av8or@reddit
Why are you commuting if you fly and live in Asia?
locblue@reddit (OP)
Family lives in CA
confusedguy1212@reddit
If you have enough money to retire just lay it to rest. This career leads nowhere.
pilotshashi@reddit
Rn the Airlines market is 👎🏼 recently, no new airlines launched, no current airlines bought planes also the US election happened recently so most of things were slowed all being affected nothing new happened. Latest news spirit 💛 also gave up (which is the entry door for pilots). Time is rough but it will soar soon. Just hang in there openings will soon...
BradKfan2@reddit
I think you’re just pushing qualified, I’d say go for it!
OtterVA@reddit
If it’s for the money stay where you are. If It’s for work QOL stay where you are. Going from Asian WBCA to US NBFO… or even RJFO you will not love your job or airline.
Convert your stuff to FAA first.
Get an immigration attorney to get the green card asap. See how you can navigate minimum time away from your current Job during the process.
Apply to the legacies near where you live (don’t commute).
L0ngcat55@reddit
Idk if you are able to but if you don't do the adjustment of status but do the consular processing instead you don't have to be in the us while waiting for your greencard. You can also enter and leave the us during the process as a tourist or for work (in case you fly there) Keep your job and only consider quitting if you end up getting a job in the us.
randomroute350@reddit
UPS has several commuters from around the world. It’s fleet / seat dependent, but can be done. They also generally love high time pilots.
i_am_the_fume@reddit
FWIW, I’ve flown with 3 First Officers with around about your career history/stats at my legacy. Two were in similar situations re: family and commuting and neither had regrets.
matrix197100@reddit
4
Mediocre-Trash-7597@reddit
Don’t do it.
Fun-Estate-3775@reddit
50% pay cut. You'll be a narrow body FO probably on reserve. About 3-5 years to upgrade to wide body. About 30 years to wide body Captain, so forget about anybody ever calling you Sir again. LOL. Narrow body schedules suck, constant re-assignements. WALK AROUNDS!!!!! Crappy hotels and even crappier entitled passengers on domestic flights. Plus it'll be a total culture shock flying with American crews vs what you are used to now.
Check out the green card requirements closely. I am a green card guy, and if I'm remember it right, I was not allowed to leave the country during a certain period of that process.
All in all, I'd spend my current income on more first class tickets instead of commuting on the cheap and better hotel rooms to make life a bit easier.
All the best.
cjonesaf@reddit
Absolutely do not quit your job until you have a CJO and a class date in hand. Things change really fast.
Side note, you may want to make sure you’re up for what you are suggesting. Do you really want to go from being the man on a wide body to flying 4 legs a day in a 737, slinging gear for a 28 year old captain who sits the cockpit and plays with his/her phone while you do four walk around a day in horizontal sleet? Because that’s what’s coming, and no one at a US airline cares about who you were in a previous life - you’ll just be the newest 55-ish year old FO at whatever airline hires you. And at that age; you’ll retire in the bottom half of your bid status seniority, so you’ll have a shit schedule and work every holiday and weekend when you are 64 years old. Not trying to be a debbie downer, Just food for thought.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Yes, that mental picture is what put me off moving to the US years ago (2013-14). Some things that have changed since…salaries are up significantly since mid-2010s, upgrades are much faster (airline specific I guess). 4 sector days will suck for 3-4 years (I’m hoping not longer) but roster may become more bearable by year 5 with some seniority?
Mr-cacahead@reddit
get a green card like yesterday, the process i awfully slow, marriage base GC. It could take over a year.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Yes, my contingency plan covers about 18 months for the entire process
Mr-Plop@reddit
None seems to be talking about the paycut OP is gonna be taking though.
locblue@reddit (OP)
Yes, there will be a huge pay cut initially, but looking at the latest legacy FO pay scales, by year 3 is not too bad and adjusting for not maintaining 2 households, cut commuting cost, time with family, etc…it kinda evens out from maybe year 5 or so as an FO
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
Ya hiring is slow but if my 1500hr instructors friends (who fly a damn Cessna) are still managing to get hired, surely a 20,000TT pilot of literally anything should be able to get hired lmaooo.
Efficient_Presence63@reddit
Chances of getting hired are damn good.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
51M, 20,000+ TT, All widebody 777/340, PIC for the past 17 yrs, 29 yrs with a top asian legacy, ICAO ATP, presently earning US$400K pretax (low tax country), spouse is a US citizen
Need advice...I've been commuting to the US from asia for the past decade. It's amazing i've done it this long, but i'm sick of it. Love my job and airline, but i may have to make some changes. Considering a move to the US, get a Green Card through my spouse, convert to FAA ATP, then apply to US airlines. I've heard hiring has significantly slowed down or even paused. Should i risk quitting my job to apply to US carriers with my experience listed above? Bit of a chicken and egg situation as i have to reside in the US during the Green Card approval process, and so have to quit my present job or at least take some form of unpaid leave. What are my chances of getting hired in the present hiring environment? I'm willing to wait while living in the US. Sufficient savings, spouse works, etc. Appreciate any input. Tks
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