Why does anyone dislike the idea of devolving education to the state level?
Posted by achipinthesugar@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 73 comments
Doesn’t that mean the red and blue states can each do more of what they want in schools?
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dangleicious13@reddit
States can already pretty much do what they want in schools
Ourobius@reddit
They don't now. But give it about three months.
AbyssalRedemption@reddit
Wait, are you suggesting they're going to set a forced conservative/ Christian-oriented curriculum nationwide via the DOE? Trump has said from the get-go that his plan is to abolish the department of Ed. He's proven to be increasingly libertarian in his beliefs, for better or worse (usually worse), which is directly reflected in his mass deregulation plans and culling departments. I am absolutely not a fan of this administration, and I think that they're going to make a lot of regressive or poor decisions, but I will stand by the stance that I don't believe they will do anything like a blanket ban on abortion, or a federal mandate of conservative education policy.
MarthaStewart__@reddit
“Wait, are you suggesting they’re going to set a forced conservative/ Christian-oriented curriculum nationwide via the DOE?”
How the hell did you get that out of their comment lol?
AbyssalRedemption@reddit
"Are you under the impression that the DOE sets a nationwide curriculum?"
"They don't now. But give it about three months."
Otherwise-OhWell@reddit
Trump doesn't have beliefs beyond attaining the power and adulation he desperately craves. He might get the former but he'll never get the latter.
GusPlus@reddit
Yeah, nothing says “libertarian” like tariffs, threatening to pull media licenses for criticizing him, wanting to crack down on political enemies, expanding the powers of the executive branch, imposing the death penalty on drug dealers, pushing specific religious beliefs in public schools, and directly contributing to and supporting policies that rob 50% of the population of their bodily autonomy.
RingGiver@reddit
Because some people want a small group of elites to control everyone.
Squirrel179@reddit
As opposed to a large group of inferiors?
Ancient0wl@reddit
Who are the “inferiors” in this hypothetical?
pfcgos@reddit
Because the quality of your education shouldn't be dependent on which state you grew up in. Is this really a fucking question?
Ancient0wl@reddit
I don’t know about you, but I don’t trust Donald J. Trump and his cohorts to set a curriculum for America’s children. Advocating for the DoE to set that would be handing him, and every Republican voted in office afterwards, that power.
Recent-Irish@reddit
Sorry, but I don’t know how anyone can look at 2016 or 2024 and think “clearly this man needs MORE power at his disposal.”
nvkylebrown@reddit
eh? States are where the bulk of the power resides.
In fact, on most issues, the states have the bulk of the power. They can't impose controls on movement of people or goods, but they can tax and spend themselves, they control road building and maintenence, schools, most of the criminal code, most of the criminal enforcement, etc, etc.
From outside the US, the federal government might look like "the US" but from inside, the individual states wield much more power in people's day-to-day lives.
If you ever are wondering "is this state or federal?" it's more likely state than federal. Federal spending is Social Security, Medicare, servicing debt, and defense, in that order. The other programs are all relatively small potatos, compared to those, and most of it gets spent as block grants and matching funds to states to do various things. So it may be federal money, but the states are in charge of spending it, if that makes sense.
Arleare13@reddit
Education is already “devolved” to the states to a very large extent. We already have a very localized education system. The Department of Education primarily does things like distribute federal funding, prevent discrimination in the educational system, and collect data and provide research and guidance to school systems.
The “return education to the states” thing is, unsurprisingly considering the source, absolute nonsense. It’s already there.
Interesting_Road_515@reddit
Maybe not related, l am curious whether the health system follows the same way as education, like the federal department and agencies usually do funding distribution, negotiation between states and research things while most of regulations are managed by state level agencies?
TwinkieDad@reddit
It depends which health funding. Medicaid (for low income) is all run at the state level and the feds just distribute funds. That’s a large contributor why the US does not have universal healthcare; the ACA was written to expand Medicaid, but some states turned down the money. VA/Tricare (veterans & family) and Medicare are administered directly from the federal government.
WayGroundbreaking787@reddit
I’m not entirely sure but my mom was a nurse when I was growing up and she had nursing licenses in Ohio and Kentucky, so that part is determined by the state.
Recent-Irish@reddit
Depends on the issue but in most cases yes.
AbyssalRedemption@reddit
Short answer, technically yes, but that's not necessarily a good thing. If you look at a variety of studies and metrics, historically been a statistically significant discrepancy between deep red and deep blue states in terms of education rates (hint, there's a reason that Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana are often found in the bottom of many metrics, education rates being only one, but one that's possibly correlated to others). Total deregulation allows every state to, in theory, fully implement their own curriculums, yes, but that just means that the education levels/ quality between states will differ that much more (and if you've seen where the US ranks on education on the global stage in recent years, that isn't exactly a good thing). The fear among many is that the deep-red states will do things like mandate the Bible and religious ed in public schools, and possibly overwrite policies on things like climate change, sex ed, and the scientific method, with religious dogma.
Far-Jury-2060@reddit
I don’t understand it either. The DoE was only developed in 1979, and education did work for the first 200 years of the country.
Plus-Ad1061@reddit
The red states don’t exactly have a history of doing a good job of it.
prombloodd@reddit
So let’s hand it off to even more incompetent government mess. Great idea.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Or maybe get your fuckin act together, red states, and don't force the fed's hand into making you act normal and provide reasonable and constitutional schooling to kids
prombloodd@reddit
I would trust red states to educate children before I’d ever trust the federal government.
WayGroundbreaking787@reddit
What exactly do the states do better than the federal government in regards to education?
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
Then you're a fool.
prombloodd@reddit
I’m not going to accept criticism of my intelligence from a Canadian, with all due respect.
pfcgos@reddit
K, then with all due respect, I'm from Wyoming and you're still a fool.
Hatweed@reddit
Ok, let’s end this here.
ForeignGuess@reddit
Until 1987 red states tried to teach creationism, be real here dude
Recent-Irish@reddit
He’s from Virginia dude lmao
WayGroundbreaking787@reddit
If you look at the bottom ten states for educational outcomes they’re almost all red states except for New Mexico.
liberletric@reddit
Maybe stop trying to teach unscientific ideologically-driven bullshit and the government won’t have to step in. Idk just an idea.
prombloodd@reddit
I’m not a teacher so this statement doesn’t apply to me. Next!
Number_Fluffy@reddit
For me, the more conservative states want to incorporate religious teachings into schools. I think it's a way to control people.
Arleare13@reddit
Just yesterday, Texas moved forward with a plan to incorporate the Bible into elementary schools.
2spicy_4you@reddit
Oklahoma did something similar
Arleare13@reddit
And Louisiana. Gross how these states’ leaders are trying to force religion on children in public schools, while claiming they’re the ones who care about freedom and the Constitution. Hypocrites.
Sandi375@reddit
It absolutely is. Religion has no place in public education.
lilo3o@reddit
This is a big one
WayGroundbreaking787@reddit
Teacher here. Many decisions about education are already made on the state and local level. States create their own standards and graduation requirements. Curriculum which aligns with state standards is usually chosen at the district level.
The main reason people are upset about the Department of Education being threatened is because of federal funding for special education services and Title I (high poverty) schools. The DOE also enforces legislation like the IDEA act that mandate special education services. The Republican Party wants to defund public education and funnel money to charter and private schools through “school choice.”
With that said some of the state level policies for education in red states are just terrible. Look at Oklahoma buying Trump bibles for schools. How is that not unconstitutional given the separation of church and state?
gcot802@reddit
Because we are still one country. And all children deserve a high quality of education regardless of where they are born or what their parents financial situation is.
Red states have the worst education in the country. They should not be allowed to decide what flies. We should have a federal standard that everyone must meet
Recent-Irish@reddit
Sorry, but I don’t know how anyone can look at 2016 or 2024 and think “clearly this man needs MORE power at his disposal.”
soap---poisoning@reddit
There are some people who aren’t content to control education in their own state. They want to control what is taught and how it’s presented in every other state too because they believe their way is the only right way to do anything.
Also, is lot of expensive bureaucracy that will disappear if the federal DOE goes away, which is upsetting to the people who get paid by it directly or indirectly.
In short, it has everything to do with power and money, and nothing to do with actual education.
Ancient0wl@reddit
They already do. The DoE doesn’t disseminate a national curriculum. I know some people don’t like it because it means people in other states get to teach their agenda to impressionable children as gospel truth and would like national control to eliminate bias and implement a “logical, truthful curriculum”.
Apply that however you like, it fits both sides equally.
Konigwork@reddit
You assume that red states want blue states to be allowed to teach what they are inclined to, and that blue states want red states to be allowed to do the same.
Plus reminder that we have freedom of movement across this country and you’ve got democrats who live in red states, and republicans who live in blue ones
Dobditact@reddit
It doesn’t matter what red states want blue states to teach and vice versa. That’s why they’re different states
earthhominid@reddit
If education was actually determined fully at the state level (note that lots of educational choices are already made at the state and local levels) it wouldn't matter what any other state wanted another state to teach
BlazerFS231@reddit
Because people demand freedom until someone else does something they don’t like.
DrGerbal@reddit
Because people in Alabama don’t want people in California teaching kids that everyone should be trans and there is not god and all guns are bad. And beople on California don’t want people in Alabama that everything good that happens is gods will and that the civil war was only about states right and was an act of northern aggression and that women’s only purpose is to serve men. Obviously these are extreme crazy examples. But that’s more or less the gist of why
Ix_fromBetelgeuse7@reddit
I mean, it's massive amounts of federal funding. Is that just going to get stripped away? Many states just can't replicate that level of funds. Take North Carolina as a random example because I could find a neat chart. The link is a line-item budget from the DOE showing what the DOE contributed to North Carolina schools in 2024. That's $4.6 billion - including funding for special needs programs, focus programs targeting disadvantaged students, Pell grants and work study funds for college students, literacy, and vocational assistance, among several other things. It is absolutely not trivial to think about all of that just getting wiped out.
https://www.ednc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/federal-funding-nc-768x489.png
seatownquilt-N-plant@reddit
education is already pretty decentralized. Schools in the same district might not even use the same text books.
I think the only thing Feds impose are civil rights things and title X funding
aside from that they re-distribute federal taxes from big tax payers like California and send those dollars to lower income state like Kentucky. Small town Kentucky school district is buying their text books of choice using dollars California gave to the Feds.
liberletric@reddit
Education is already decided at the state level for the most part. What they want is the dissolution of public education altogether.
44035@reddit
It's not like the Trump-Musk administration is promising to shift all federal education spending ($79.6 billion) to the states, dollar for dollar. It sounds more like the federal dollars simply disappear to fulfill libertarian small government fantasies. Special needs kids in red states will get a Pizza Hut coupon and a balloon instead of programming.
Arleare13@reddit
Yep. They’re going to be the biggest losers here if Trump gets his way.
AmericanMinotaur@reddit
It’s already a state level process. That’s why education outcomes vary by state.
2spicy_4you@reddit
And one particular color is usually the worst
liberletric@reddit
Because then individual states can just make unscientific ideology-driven bullshit to indoctrinate children into?
obtusername@reddit
You thought it was a good time to go driving.
And a lot of other people thought the same thing.
dear-mycologistical@reddit
If you believe that what some schools are doing is morally wrong and/or factually incorrect, then it makes sense to care whether the schools are doing it, even if they're doing it in a different state. For example, if you believe Trump's ridiculous claim that schools are performing surgery on kids without parental consent, then you're probably going to be upset about it even if it's not happening in your kid's school. If you believe in separation of church and state, then you're probably going to be upset about Oklahoma public schools teaching the Bible even if you don't live in Oklahoma. People have values and principles and care what happens in society.
dottes@reddit
Because some states will simply rob the money. No one should be in favor of corruption. Also is the matter of where the money comes from. Generally speaking it goes from blue states to red states. So blue states are not happy with finding their money used to teach people to hate them . It generally is then just a slush fund and then never funded past this amount. If you want an example look at the TANF program. Some states use the funds to support families. Some states use the funds to support contractors to support families. And some states will just change the subject when asked where the money goes. There is also the unspoken fact that many rural states can't begin to support their districts without federal money. It's going to cause trouble and chaos.
HippiePvnxTeacher@reddit
Good luck getting red states to fund IDEA. And best of luck to the bankrupt blue cities who will be scrambling to find a way to keep it going without federal help.
IDEA = federal funding that provides states and municipalities with a ton of federal funding to run SpEd programs. Especially in poor areas, this funding is the difference between “we have a space for your child to learn to the best of their abilities” and “we cannot accommodate your child at our school”
microcorpsman@reddit
"Red state" is just a state that consistently votes at least 51% for one party. Same in the other flavor.
So tons of people living there do not agree with that, and no, not everyone can up and move no big deal.
SinistreCyborg@reddit
States already decide what their students learn. States set the standards. Anyone who’s moved states while in school can tell you.
Aggressive-Click-605@reddit
I like what you're saying!
GhostOfJamesStrang@reddit
Do you? I'm not even sure what they're saying.
machagogo@reddit
It already is at the state level
Cheap_Coffee@reddit
Education is already controlled at the state level.
ReadinII@reddit
If we don’t educate everyone to think exactly the same then it will be more difficult to control them. Who wants a population that government officials like Trump can’t easily control.
If you let the states educate everyone differently you’ll constantly have people causing trouble by questioning authority.
JimBones31@reddit
A federal department of education does something to help ensure that every child gets the education they are entitled to as humans.
limbodog@reddit
Because there are still good people who live in red states and their kids deserve educations too. Not just those lucky enough to grow up in blue states.