Is it typical to get laid off before Christmas holidays?
Posted by Excellent-Vegetable8@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 64 comments
I was given Dec 13 as the deadline to improve. Some people told me that is a hint because companies typically fire before deadlines. Is that true?
klavijaturista@reddit
They have already decided. Improvement in a month is just gaslighting. They want you to work hard until the last day there.
humannumber1@reddit
I think it's common around the fiscal year boundary. For companies who's fiscal year is the same as the calendar year then layoffs can happen around Jan 1rst.
SheriffRoscoe@reddit
Microsoft has a layoff every June 30th, the last day of its fiscal year.
DigThatData@reddit
microsoft is a sufficiently large company that they probably have at least one layoff every day of the year
rebel_cdn@reddit
The good shops don't pull this December massacre bullshit. You'll find them. They're the ones without armies of PMs and scrum masters jerking each other off over velocity metrics. They're usually smaller. Usually quieter. Usually run by engineers who remember what it's like to actually build things that matter.
I've worked at two of them. They exist. And when you're working alongside great developers at these places, it can feel magical.
The rest of them. Christ. The rest of them treat December like a fucking purge. That's when the suits get mean. That's when they start counting heads and counting dollars and deciding whose kids won't get Christmas presents this year.
It's algorithmic at this point. Market's down, holidays approach, VPs get twitchy, someone's got to bleed. All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
If they give you a December deadline to "improve," they've probably already decided to fuck you. Your fate was sealed in some meeting you weren't invited to. There's an off chance they want you to succeed, but they're idiots who don't care how much a PIP ending in December fucks with your head.
All you can do is keep your expenses low. Keep your GitHub green. Keep your LinkedIn updated. And for fuck's sake, when you find a good shop that treats engineers like humans, stay there. It'll probably pay less. But your sanity will thank you.
Maxion@reddit
And remember, there are repo's that help with puffing up your github activity if you are currently coding into some corporate SVN and your github is black.
devoutsalsa@reddit
Develop rapid onset alcoholism as a stress reaction and file for disability.
cheeky_yerisung@reddit
This is kind of related so I thought id just comment for advice. I recently joined a company I'm very excited about but few weeks in - they made people redundant - including 1 dev from my team. I was in shock and wondered why they would hire me if they're doing redundancies. Would it be best to look into getting a new job?
thepennn@reddit
Being unemployed sucks. It affects so much inside, sometimes you wouldn’t be able to recognise. It is just easy to say you will get an another one. But all my folks out there who got laid off. I will just say have faith in yourself and there are more aspects to your life than just work. Take your time off, enjoy your vacations. Give a specific time to hunt for the jobs. Try not to stress over it 24/7. You will get one soon. Just have faith.
thepennn@reddit
High five, got laid off 2 months back
Let047@reddit
this happened to me and they presented this as a favor so I could enjoy Christmas and end of year without the stress of a work. (I'm still pissed off at them 20 years after.)
TopSwagCode@reddit
Yeah nothing like a good Xmas knowing you got fired :p Because no stress being the most expensive part of the year :p
btlk48@reddit
As if being unemployed is not a bigger stress lmao
WolfNo680@reddit
the level of severe backwards thinking is insane lmao - yes, I don't have to think about this job, but now I have to think about getting a new job! 😭
dryiceboy@reddit
I just call it gaslighting.
Tolexx@reddit
That's it 💯
Imaginary_Doughnut27@reddit
“Wow. This went great. I thought I was going to feel terrible. Well, off you go. Clean out your desk”
Hog_enthusiast@reddit
This is the kind of shit that makes people freak out and wreck the office when they get fired
Constant-Listen834@reddit
My company recently had layoffs 2 weeks before Christmas
“We know people spend a lot during the holidays so it seemed in those employees best interest to lay them off before the holidays so they could budget accordingly”
Sometimes I despise capitalism
tiplinix@reddit
The rationalization is so on point with this one. At least someone must have had an excellent benevolent Christmas in their head.
GlobalScreen2223@reddit
It is fairly delusional and some people will find ways to rationalize everything
sonstone@reddit
While some of the more sinister answers here may be correct in some places, it isn’t always correct. I know of someone on a PIP right now that ends mid December. The timing is a direct result of how things aligned with quarterly reviews, and accounting for extra time to support previously approved PTO and holidays. The review warranted a PIP and it’s the managers job to initiate. The manager asked HR if it should be pushed till after the holidays, but was encouraged not to drag out things longer given the extended period of demonstrated poor performance. There was nothing nefarious about the timing decisions. There was no discussion or consideration about trying to save a a few weeks pay or anything like that. It’s a drop in the bucket and doesn’t impact overall plans or hiring if it ends in termination, and tremendous effort is being put into making it successful such that it doesn’t need to end in termination.
Excellent-Vegetable8@reddit (OP)
Why is it beneficial to not end in termination from a company perspective given an extended period of poor performance?
edu344@reddit
Depends on the company. The one I know (huge telecom) won’t do it during Nov-Dec. it would be in Oct or Jan.
abrandis@reddit
A lot depends on when their fiscal 4th quarter ends. It's mostly tied to quarterly earnings and reporting schedule
chimax83@reddit
Deathstar? They let people go in late October every single year of my 12 years with the company, like clockwork.
compubomb@reddit
Yes, it's almost like some deviant bastard came up with this as a useful time. I got laid off almost 2 years ago on the 11th of Nov, and it sucked. Sorry to hear. I had an "early morning" surprise calendar invite added at like 6am, which was strange to me, and told my manager was going on vacation, and we had to be in earlier than usual. So I got up earlier than I normally do and was available at 7am. HR was on the line and bamb, and they claimed it was due to lack of performance (big fat liars) because 6 months later they let the whole team go. 16 months later even their VP of Platform left as well. Their a sinking ship.
chipmunksocute@reddit
Yeah both times Ive been let go I had mystery meetings pop up with no warning. first was a meeting with the VP who I neeeever worked directly with and a hidden guest list. very sus and then all 12 of us on the call got let go. Second time I didnt even get an invite, a cold call comes in teams from the head of hr and I immediately though "ah shit.".
compubomb@reddit
Know what the best part was? My manager told me that I needed to pick up the pace and get my work done quicker, because I was holding things up. I asked him if that was a warning, and he was said "No, it's not a warning, I'm just letting you know that you need to pick things up" and I was like "This feels like a warning." I call up a friend of mine who was VP of Engineering as I entered the company, his title mysteriously changed almost immediately to VP of Platform. Later I talked with my wife and she was like, "You realize that your manager was gaslighting you" and I was like. "FTMFA".
dashingThroughSnow12@reddit
I tell people whenever they put a meeting on my calendar with no warning or description that they…just….should…..not….do….that.
Give me a warrant canary. Say everything is fine if everything is fine. I know they can’t tell me ahead of time if I’m getting laid off but if this is a normal meeting, tell me.
khedoros@reddit
There was the one day that I came in to a bunch of faces I didn't recognize in suits. Everyone had a scary meeting invite. They herded 1/3 of the office into one area, another third into another area, and the remainder into a third area. One of the groups was laid off, effective immediately. The second was going to be given a hefty bonus to stay 6 months and train their offshore replacements. The third kept their jobs for the time being.
I was in the third group. But yeah, every time I've been let go, it's been a sudden meeting invite with someone I may know of, but don't typically talk to. Usually a manager and an HR rep.
fischerandchips@reddit
How did the bonus work for the second group? Was it a severance package they dangled in front of them?
khedoros@reddit
I assume that they were required to sign a contract, but I don't remember if I even asked anyone the details of how it worked.
random2048assign@reddit
Haha I bet it’s Amazon
softwaredoug@reddit
I remember one of the earliest projects just HAD to be done by a date in November to "save the company". We hid the deadline, and had layoffs anyway.
Needless to say, we didn't go above and beyond after that.
bluetista1988@reddit
I've seen that before too. "If we hit XYZ by the end of the year we won't have to lay anyone off" meanwhile they had already decided in November who was getting the axe and just decided to wait until January to pull the trigger.
We exceeded XYZ by like 30%.
dashingThroughSnow12@reddit
This is so common that there is a famous song about it.
Wikipedia link about song: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_We_Make_It_Through_December
YouTube link to song: https://youtu.be/U9TByT3QlWc?si=2lqJ5MurD3dSuYGh
xabrol@reddit
Yeah is pretty normal. Jan 1 isvthe start of a new fiscal year and first quarter and is where cost cutting deadlines are. If they couldn't meet cost reduction goals theyll hang on to employees till right near years end and start making cuts.
Then if the furst quarter goes good theyll start hiring again in the 2nd.
Then they end up spending more on new employees than they were paying the old ones, and then have 18 months of ramp up (how long it takes a new developer to hit maximum production and comfort and familiarity with the platforms and systems).
nobody-important-1@reddit
Any formal performance issues means you should start looking
Totally-jag2598@reddit
Yeah, anytime an employer tells you, you have to improve it's the start of the firing process.
huskerdev@reddit
If you’re on a PIP or some kind of deadline - they already made up their mind. You are cooked and should be prioritizing your job search over “improving” at the job you’re about to be fired from.
SequentialHustle@reddit
right before the EOY bonus payout 🤦♂️
chain_letter@reddit
Also PTO days in states that don't pay out PTO.
SequentialHustle@reddit
forgot about that, so used to startups with "unlimited" pto you don't get paid out for.
chain_letter@reddit
I had one of those jobs and it was the least vacation I've ever taken.
"Take as much as you need, as long as the work is getting done"
I'm the only front end dev. I go to the beach, work is not getting done. And we were getting crunched anyways.
tetryds@reddit
Yes if they want to layoff someone they expedite it to be done before the end of the fiscal year, this way the persons salary doesn't show up on recurrent costs. That's lame af but they do it anyway. Same for hiring, they prefer the beginning of the cycle to make most out of it.
No_Technician7058@reddit
it makes sense on paper, since they dont pay the holiday week, but most people consider it ruthless.
Beginning-Comedian-2@reddit
deadline to improve = performance improvement plan (PIP)
PIP = We want you gone, but have to give you notice that we're asking you to improve. That way we can fire you without any financial blowback when we say you failed to meet your improvement goals.
PIP = start interviewing now.
NullVoidXNilMission@reddit
Pip = paid interview period
Beginning-Comedian-2@reddit
Yes. Good way to look at it.
SequentialHustle@reddit
true, depends on company. last startup I was at I’m aware of a few people who got a PIP and were not fired
Dorklee77@reddit
I was once laid off 2 days before thanksgiving. I was one of about 5 people who were let go so they could buy a new building. I didn’t realize my shitty salary (at the time) was so high and that commercial property was so cheap that letting us go right before a holiday made a difference.
They even had the audacity to ask me back as an IC after the holiday for 30k. I was desperate so I took it and they screwed me over for 12k of that amount. The rate at one learns is not constant but I learned my lesson with them. Last agency I ever worked for.
enufplay@reddit
Yes, it's typical. They do this for 2 reasons:
They save at least a few days of pay since most companies tend to have many holidays towards the end of the year. For some industries, it's not uncommon to have the last 2 weeks shut down.
They want to start the next year fresh with a new updated headcount. This can be good for the number crunchers since there's less spending on the payroll.
CowboyBoats@reddit
I got laid off about a month ago. The timing was a bit of a bummer because I'd prefer to wear a big beard all winter, but not while job searching...
edisonpioneer@reddit
My previous manager told me that HR advised them to fire unwanted people before November behinds else they are stuck with those people till January.
photoshoptho@reddit
improve what? your code quality, not meeting deadlines, what exactly? and they're only giving you 3 weeks? and 2nd, if you feel this is just an excuse to fire you, then yea more than likely they will. sorry bro.
LivingZookeepergame0@reddit
Just before Christmas is prime time layoff season.
abandonplanetearth@reddit
At my company my boss (CEO) has said multiple times that he would never fire someone before xmas. Really depends on the people.
mallarj@reddit
Been a developer a _long_ time. Yes, Holidays are often accompanied by layoffs. Does depend on the company and how they do things like financials, but very common.
NullVoidXNilMission@reddit
It happened to me. So yes
Karthas_TGG@reddit
Similar boat. Was given until Dec 18th to improve or I'm gone. I'd suggest looking. If they're giving that info, they're already planning on firing you
Individual-Praline20@reddit
Of course! As others mentioned, they are doing you a favour! You were part of the big family after all! 😈 I mean… Imagine the tragedy, if you would have been assigned to on-call duty during holidays!! 😬 However, they will never confess that the real reason was to make the management team happier with their higher year end bonuses. 🫶
roger_ducky@reddit
Depends on industry. Game studios typically do layoffs right around there, since most of their projects stop or wind down around that time.
Mono-Guy@reddit
Yeap. Even 'better', they view it as doing -you- a favor, since they're not getting rid of you at month's end and you'll have insurance for a couple weeks.