Considering a move to Spain with Digital Nomad visa. I know, many threads about this, but I have specifics.
Posted by PointReyes7@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 35 comments
Hi all. I've always wanted to experience living in another country, and now that Trump is prez again it's a big kick in the ass to try it. My wife spent a couple of years outside of Valencia a while back and is fluent in Spanish (though she'd need to get used to the Catalonian dialect again), and I speak OK Spanish but learn very fast. I'd say we're the opposite of the cliche of loud, entitled Americans. I've rarely ever encountered rude people, though did in both Barcelona and Malaga, but not in other areas of Spain like Seville and the northeastern coast.
We have a 2.5 y.o. daughter and don't want to raise her in America, even though it's my home country. Spain is highest on the list because of the Digital Nomad Visa and the fact that we can do Spanish pretty well. I'm 51 and my wife is 45.
Here are my concerns:
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That it's going conservative. Many countries are right now, but we're trying to find out what that would actually mean in a country like Spain. We don't want to leave Trump-land for a similar political climate. We live in a bubble in Los Angeles (which we're both dying to get out of for ourselves and our daughter, for other reasons), but it looks like that might not a safe thing in the coming years, and it sucks to live in a country that's as split as this in such an extreme way.
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Where to live. I'm a film composer and my wife is a therapist (again, who's fluent in Spanish). With the Digital Nomad Visa, 80% of our income would need to be from outside Spain, which is fine to start with, and would likely continue for me for a while. We want to be in a place that has great culture since that's important to be around for me both personally and business-wise. If it's a big city we would live in the outskirts because we don't like loud city life as far as where we actually live -- we'd like to be able to go into the city but live outside of it. We're not and never were big partiers, prefer things like closing down a restaurant with/cooking for good friends, experiencing culture of all kinds, and also getting out into nature on our own and with friends. Barcelona is a no-go for us, we just aren't fans of it and we both (before we met each other) found the people to be less friendly in general than other places we've been.
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Rising crime even in cities like Valencia. Hard to tell from reading what people say online, I know. But it's a concern obviously.
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Health care. I have diabetes type 1, and would be able to get private insurance because it's massively cheaper than the U.S. How do you feel the quality and modernity of doctors in major cities in Spain compares to major cities in the U.S.?
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is the bureaucracy REALLY as bad as people write about pretty often?
I know that Reddit focuses on the negative, so I would like to hear positive sides too. Possibly open to other countries, as well, but since we know Spanish and there's the Digital Nomad Thing, that's why Spain is interesting. We also have a few friends there in Valencia, Madrid and Malaga.
Long post, I know. Thanks for reading.
EssayNo8570@reddit
How did you become a digital nomad? I'm new looking for ways to make money while living overseas
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
The kind of work I do, I can do remotely anywhere. But it looks like a super long wait for many to get it, and they can revoke it at any time which is a big risk because of the growing movement against people moving there at this point in time.
EssayNo8570@reddit
I understand, I've been doing day trading for years made a small amount of money but just can't seem to be consistent yet. So I'm just possibly looking at other open, I to be a expant
Impossible_Self_4816@reddit
Where did you get this? There’s so much bad and misinformation in these responses but I only have the bandwidth to address this. If you apply from Spain they have 20 WORKING DAYS to approve or deny. It’s the shortest wait possible. And the approval is for 3 YEARS. Renewable once for 2 more, which then puts you elegible for Permanent Residency. Make sure the work is freelance because if you’re a W2 from the US you cannot get this visa currently due to a social security certificate of coverage not covering remote work and the US not changing it/Spain not accepting it.
You’d be better off joining the 2 super specialized forums on FB that have been running for almost 2 years with thousands of people who have specific experience and live in Spain with the exact residency you’re asking about:
https://facebook.com/groups/digitalnomadvisaspain/
https://facebook.com/groups/spanishdigitalnomadvisa
The farthest right in Spain is small, and the US right makes the main “right” party in Spain look like Bernie Sanders. None of that is a problem here. I have Spanish friends from every party, including the far right one, and it’s just not the same. You need to live here to truly understand it though. I heard all kinds of political things before moving and none of it was really accurate.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Any other misinformation you'd like to post about is very welcome. I'm well aware that Reddit can be...interesting that way.
Impossible_Self_4816@reddit
I really think those 2 groups will clear it all up. It’s run by a team of gestores/attorneys with hundreds and hundreds of Spanish DNV approvals, and they’re all longtime residents who are in constant contact with the governing body here who processes these applications. The members are mostly current DNV residents here with prospective new ones mixed in. Lots of solid info and a lot of misinformation-debunkers to keep it truthful. The first one I listed is the better of the 2.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Thanks again!
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Yeah, there's a lot of conflicting info and misinformation out there about all of this for sure.I will check out those groups, and thank you very much for the information.
MapIll2963@reddit
Yeah. There is a lot of conflicting info and misinformation out there, it's easy to get pointed down the wrong road.
I'll check out those groups, and thank you for this response.
akiestar@reddit
One thing that OP should know: dependents of digital nomad visa holders actually have full working rights in Spain, so if your wife wants to practice her profession, she can. The big issue will be homologating her credentials so she can practice in Spain as the medical field is restricted.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Thank you.
Sufficient_You3053@reddit
Curious why isn't Mexico an option for you?
It's going very left politically and is very safe in many parts of the country. (I live there now and am raising my son)
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
I dated someone who was originally from Mexico for a few years and we went often, all over the country. It's a really great place (as long as you stay out of the Cartel-infested areas) but Western Europe is much more my speed for lifestyle and general "vibe".
Working-Fan-76612@reddit
America is not far right at all.
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
Trending that way. Or at least they’re trying too
RexManning1@reddit
Understand that you are wanting to permanently relocate on a visa that is a temporary stay visa and could easily be restructured to prohibit renewals or removed altogether if the government decides there are too many foreigners. Locals are not pleased with that at the moment.
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
They could still apply or switch to autonomo even if DNV goes away/ the upside of DNV is 1 extra year on the Visa length
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Good point, thanks. I understand why people would have that sentiment, especially in a culturally proud country like Spain.
RexManning1@reddit
It’s not about being culturally proud. It’s about the economic effect.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Understood, and I get that, too.
atzucach@reddit
Nope, not at all https://abaixemelslloguers23n.org/com-anar-a-la-mani/
Also, OP, Catalan is a language, not a dialect.
And as unpleasant as the far right is here, it's laughable to compare them to the far right in the US. They are not nearly as accomplished or destructive.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Yes, I corrected that -- I know it's a language, mistakenly wrote dialact.
Thanks for the info on both fronts!
urano123@reddit
Close the door on your way out and don't come back, please.
expats-ModTeam@reddit
Be nice to each other. Uncivil conduct, ad hominem attacks, etc. will result in up to 3 warnings and then a temporary ban. Violent, racist, homophobic, sexist, or generally bigoted attacks and content will be dealt with immediately with a ban of a week or more.
londondeville@reddit
Ignore this guy.
soytuamigo@reddit
Lol. Spain is the right place for you.
FR-DE-ES@reddit
I see that you are from LA. I'm from Bay Area/Silicon Valley, living my 10th winter in Sevilla. My 2 cents: 1) For me, Sevilla is hotter than hell April-October. If I live here year round, I would need to keep air con running for 7 months. There is no cold-air blasting American style air con anywhere, my Arizona-native friend who visited Andalucia in June found the heat unbearable. Malaga is less hot (I lived in Malaga before). 2) I live April-October in Paris the last 9 years. In both towns, I rent comparable apartments in comparable neighborhoods, live the same lifestyle, use the same products -- the only thing cheaper in Sevilla is public transport. If I live in Sevilla in April-October, it would cost a lot more than Paris because I'd need air con to survive. 3) If "easy to make friends with native locals" is important to you -- my experience is: native in Paris & Germany (I lived in 4 states) are the friendliest and easiest to befriend, Sevilla tied with Vienna for the most difficult among the 2 dozen+ nice cities I had lived in 8 European countries. Even the famously reserved Finns are easier to befriend than Sevillanos. Locals are forever arms-length polite. As regular customer of the same local food shops for 9 winters, I have yet to be afforded the animated warm chitchat the staff regularly engage in with Sevillano customers. My Scandinavian landlady married a Sevillano, been living in Sevilla for nearly 2 decades, raising 2 native Sevillano children, she is still regarded as the "foreigner". It is a well-known fact that even young Andalucians from neighboring provinces who move to Sevilla to attend university and then live/work here for years still have no Sevillano friends. I am acquainted with several such people. I would recommend you choose a town where you can plug into your local friend's existing social circle.
SeanBourne@reddit
While the rest of Europe is trending (possibly farther than the US) to the right, Spain is the one exception. That said, Barcelona has become very anti-tourist, and that’s manifested as anti-natives even if you live there. Mallorca is also anti-tourist, but I think better if you live there. Other cities are better.
Agreed on Barcelona - even prior to the anti-tourist thing… there’s a reason catalans are memed for being difficult. Personally, I’d suggest Madrid or San Sebastian. My parents loved Seville (even more than they love the rest of Spain), though I’ve never been so am not speaking from first-hand experience.
Rising crime is going to be an issue everywhere. Changing demographics in the developed world is a trend that can’t really be reversed at this point. Police departments aren’t well staffed and aren’t well funded (or if they are, graft eats into it); organized crime understands this and penetrates certain areas and recruit migratory groups that don’t have great alternatives in their new countries. To give you an idea, Sweden of all places is having major crime issues. Your best bet is to find places that are reasonably well funded and tend to have high opportunities relative to the population. In Spain, I’d (again) choose Madrid for this reason. I’d also research/consider Malaga, Avila, Alicante, and Seville, based on what I’ve heard on this front.
I don’t think Spanish healthcare is bad, and type 1 diabetes is a well understood condition. I think you’d struggle to find the high end of US care in Spain… but again that’s true of most places, with the possible exception of Switzerland/France. That said, T1D is by no means exotic, so this shouldn’t be an issue.
Bureaucracy outside the US is a thing, and will irritate the crap out of you. I think it’s just something to put up with. Australian bureaucracy drives me nuts at times, though I know it’s nowhere near as bad as in Europe. Wouldn’t necessarily put me off from moving to Europe for a few years at some point. Just a ‘cost of doing business’.
If you know Spanish, there are probably places in Latin America worth considering… and keeps you in a similar timezone for remote work. Uruguay in particular is very safe/stable.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate it.
No-Virus-4571@reddit
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Thank you.
South-Beautiful-5135@reddit
Catalan is not a dialect.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
My bad -- I know that, I accidentally used the wrong word, I meant Castilian. Just corrected it.
Captlard@reddit
1) really? How did you get this idea? Personally don’t notice this, but I don’t tend to consume too much media. Don’t see it in conversations with friends / family to much.
2) how do you define great culture? Seville, Malaga, Bilbao May be interesting options.
3) crime is going up in many places. Social / economic gaps are often a cause. These also exist in Spain. Beware of the internet bubble.
4) never lived in the USA. So no idea.
5) yes, often worse.
Consider saving and doing some 3 month rentals in different cities to see what you like.
PointReyes7@reddit (OP)
Definitely an internet thing, so I take it with a grain of salt...am curious to hear from people there about it.
Great culture to me is having a variety of great food, music, art, and theater. We're both open-minded and love all kinds of these things.
Gotcha. Yes, seems to be case worldwide.
Good advice re: 3-month rentals. Will be a little tough given the kind of work I do (film scoring), but would be possible with some planning.