Ford Bronco Production Will Be Trimmed In 2025 Amid Waning Demand
Posted by LJ_blableblibloblu@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 251 comments
Posted by LJ_blableblibloblu@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 251 comments
eric_ts@reddit
I called this 25 years ago when I was selling new cars. The car manufacturers are intentionally or not, pricing the middle and lower classes out of new car ownership. When I started selling there were cars like the Chevy (RIP Geo) Metro, which came in at under ten grand--$200-$250/Month for a five-year loan. That went away. Then the stripped pickups--I4 manual transmission key-and-a-heater Japanese trucks went first. Then they stopped making regular cab full-size trucks. They used to lease out 4x4 extended cab Rangers for a lower payment than the stripped entry-level model (But it was a lease, which is a can of worms.) The dealers and manufacturers keep repeating that nobody wants inexpensive stripped vehicles in the US--which is true--the dealers and manufacturers don't want them. At all. Non-wealthy consumers can get fucked as far as the manufacturers and dealers are concerned. The mistake they made was not overtly shifting the market upward, and allocating vehicles as if the middle-class still existed. Now they are sitting on millions of rotting vehicles that are getting less and less salable by the day. The mistake Ford made with the Bronco was that they considered it to be a premium vehicle to attract premium customers (while letting their premium brands rot and die.) The Bronco, like the Jeep Wrangler it is cribbed from, is not and never will be premium--They are both expensive but they both have limited clientele and by the time that group can afford a $60K vehicle (if they ever could) they usually like a truck that is larger and more comfortable. Ford also made the mistake of releasing the Bronco Sport (AKA Cheap Liberty) before the actual Bronco models came out. The whole thing has been a fiasco. If the Bronco had been higher quality, more reliable, and the dealerships hadn't spent a couple of years raping their Bronco customers it might have succeeded. Instead, the Ford accounting department and the dealerships got together and cratered the Bronco out of having any success in the long term--but the ROI for those initial quarters made a lot of money.
Terry___Mcginnis@reddit
If they don't want the lower and middle class as customers that's ok. Nissan and Mitsubishi have our backs. 💀
eric_ts@reddit
As long as they are still in business they will. So, for about a year and a half.
BroxigarZ@reddit
Someone should tell new car dealers to brace for reality these next 4 years when the average middle class person can’t afford new cars starting at $40,000 base price.
Zappiticas@reddit
People will just finance more. Covid proved it, people will pay absurd amounts over what the vehicle is even meant to be sold for just to have the fanciest new thing.
piddydb@reddit
I mean I feel like waning demand for Broncos of all things is pretty indicative of that not being a sustainable model
BeepBangBraaap@reddit
The bronco was originally supposed to start at 35k but dealer markups and supply issues drove the price over 100k at launch.
Since then, prices have "stabilized" from 50k and up.
It's a cool SUV but it's just not worth those prices.
Salty-Dog-9398@reddit
I ended up buying a well equipped Lexus GX460 with a v8 for $60k after seeing Bronco prices. Yes I can’t rock crawl, but the interior is fantastic and it’s a great drivetrain from engine to torsen 4wd system.
deeretech129@reddit
Jeeze, I thought my friend paid too much for his Defender (mid to low 50s, I think?) but if a Bronco is 50k, maybe he did alright.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
I guess it depends on which dealer has nicer loaner cars
hiyeji2298@reddit
It suffers from the same problem as the Gladiator. Pent up demand and now just about everyone that wanted one has one.
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
And more specifically to this point, the issue of it being this ressurected nostalgia nameplate from decades ago, and all sorts of people who had an old Bronco or were kids in the 80s and 90s and lusted for one then were lining up to get this one.
It's not a vehicle that makes sense or is really that good of a daily driver for anyone else outside that description. Friend had one for a year and ended up getting rid of it for a better daily. From my experience in it, the wind noise from the cloth roof is bad at highway speeds, the top down feature is like all convertibles in that it's only really nice and useable in specific seasons or climates, the back seat is cramped, the cargo area in the back really isn't very big for how large the vehicle is, the all terrain tires are loud, and because like the Wrangler it's an offroad focused design, it's not a good highway cruiser either.
It's a vehicle good for those who actually regularly offroad it, or for those who prioritize aesthetic above everything else. If you care at all about your daily being useful and comfortable, $50k can get you a much better option.
HiTork@reddit
I've read Wranglers have a fairly high first-year "attrition" rate because of the everything you described about your friend's Bronco. That is, many owners of new Wranglers will ditch them after a year of ownership because of the impracticality of them relative to crossovers.
It seems there are a lot of people who buy rugged body-on-frame SUVs because of their looks, the reputation they think they bring, or other superficial reasons without considering any of the downsides. In actuality, many of these people would be better served by those "icky" crossovers they are trying to get away from.
The analogy is a little loose, but this reminds me of people who get into dog breeds with finicky needs and requirements just because they look cute, etc.
DookieMcDookface@reddit
Broncos are cool but they’re not $50k+ cool. Interior is cheap. Cabin/road noise is loud. Then there is the Russian roulette you’re playing with Ford’s quality control.
Designatedrhythm@reddit
I wanted one but I told my wife and myself that I just won't buy another Fowont buy another ford.
FogItNozzel@reddit
It started at 29k. I had one on order for 31k for 2 years before Ford canceled my order.
flapsmcgee@reddit
The Bronco originally started at $30k
helium_farts@reddit
They raised the base price 10k since it launched 3 years ago. It's not hard to understand why sales are lagging.
Same with the Lightning. You can't raise the price $20k in two years and then act surprised when sales aren't what you expected
BroxigarZ@reddit
It won’t be easy to get loans when the people during COVID put themselves significantly upside down.
czarfalcon@reddit
Yep, loan rejection rates have been increasing as well.
4score-7@reddit
Thanks for sharing that. That stat (or set of stats) verifies out that we are near the end of this economic boom cycle. And, yes, stocks can still be going up.
I expect the next stat we’ll see is mortgage refinance and cash-out transactions, even if at a much higher rate than the original mortgage.
czarfalcon@reddit
Yeah, I figured it’s important for context.
I’m not going to predict that everything is going to crash and burn any day now and that we’ll all be destitute, but clearly we’re running up against some kind of wall and eventually more people just flat-out won’t be able to get a new car loan (or credit card, or anything else) no matter how badly their desire to spend compels them.
TurboFucked@reddit
Also, the whole job market looks like a rumbling volcano. Unemployment is okay, but the number of new job postings is declining, and in a lot areas, the figures are declining at an alarming rate. The economy is just waiting for those closed job openings to turn into layoffs (which has also already started in some sectors).
IsometricRain@reddit
I wonder what causes this behavior. How can someone just sign a huge chunk of their spending money away for the next few years just to get a marginally improved car.
I'd understand if it was something you used for most of your day, like a computer, or shoes, or a nicer place to live. But on a car?
TurboFucked@reddit
People here basically assume everyone else in the world is an idiot.
Fact is, if you needed a car in the past few years, an overpriced new car was a better deal than a crazy overpriced used car.
If you didn't need a new car, but wanted one, dealers were paying stupid prices for trade-ins. I sold my Mustang for more than I paid for it in 2018 and I'm happy with its replacement.
And finally, some people got a lot wealthier during the pandemic. I.e., Nurses pulling in 300k a year or $200k a year jobs that get handed out to anyone who could spell "AI", or $100k a year work for freshly licensed electricians. Plus investments, if you owned any tech stocks that did well in the 2010s, then they did very well in the past few years. Finally, anyone who bought a house pre-2020 and doesn't need to move has a ton of paper wealth.
Not everyone is doing better, but the people who tend to buy new cars (older people with professional jobs) are doing extremely well.
stealthybutthole@reddit
I mean a lot of people spend 2-3 hours a day in their car. It’s not hard to imagine why they’re okay spending a lot on it.
xangkory@reddit
There will be some people who can do that but the new car buying market is shrinking with you know, other bills and stuff costing way more than they did during Covid when all of that happened.
LouiseMartinee@reddit
Yeah, the market’s definitely not what it was during the Covid boom. People are feeling the squeeze now with everything else costing more
VuuDuu@reddit
Rates were extremely low during Covid. Now not so much. Industry is going to blow up soon. Watch.
dacjames@reddit
Borrowing was basically free during COVID. It’s a lot harder to do now with rates north of 7%.
King_in_a_castle_84@reddit
Lol if there's one single reason I can't wait for a crash, it's to remind people to live within their means.
narwhal_breeder@reddit
Interest rates were also absurdly low.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
Car dealers aren’t that smart unfortunately
Nf1nk@reddit
Which is one of a hundred good reasons why we should be able to buy a car directly from the manufacturer.
Salty-Dog-9398@reddit
Manufacturers would 100% still just charge whatever the market would bear.
You would probably just encounter fewer games with unscrupulous dealers lying to get you on the lot and/or sit through a tedious F+I sales pitch
kc_kr@reddit
Except car manufacturers don’t want to deal with you, or anybody else for that matter, on a regular basis. The one brand that does sell direct with volume, Tesla, has all sorts of service horror stories just like the franchise dealer model does.
IWantToPlayGame@reddit
You’re spot on. However, would this model work:
People want cheap cars right? OK, we’ll (manufacturer) will give you cheaper cars and sell them directly. Warranty is 1 year, 12,000 miles. After that, figure it out on your own.
Don’t you think this will satisfy every party?
kc_kr@reddit
Not unless that manufacturer is providing full factory level documentation, parts, etc. so that they can get things repaired. Hard to imagine what shop would want to sign off on doing all of that work unless they sold the product in the first place.
iamkeerock@reddit
Perhaps, just downgrade dealers to authorized service centers and call it a day.
marinuss@reddit
It's a thing, for military, deployed. Military Auto Source. Can custom order your car from a dozen brands from the factory. Gets delivered to a local dealer and you finish up the buy from them. They can't really do anything with it. It's simple. Should also be how all car buying is. Use the config on the website, make your car, gets delivered to you. Done. Manufacturers can make default cars they think will sell, that's fine, but also make what people want buy ordering.
AllLibsAreBoomers@reddit
Then prices will go down like they did with movies and games
Wait a second
mini4x@reddit
They're even doubling down and cancelling all the cheap cars.
geusebio@reddit
Euro 6+ is responsible for some of that, its basically un possible to make a car at the price that meets the near-future requirements without being a tiny ev with no range and pizza cutter super hard tyres.
Or so we're told. 10 years ago ford sold me a whole ass new car for €9k.
helium_farts@reddit
I mean, it's not like the dealers have much say about that. All they can do is sell the cars Ford or whoever builds.
Some_Conference_3584@reddit
Wow
rconn1469@reddit
They have the attention span and long term memory of a fucking goldfish.
goot449@reddit
They don’t have much of a choice anyway. Sure they can stock more on the cheaper end but that only goes so far when nothing is under $40k.
rent1985@reddit
The rich people buy the expensive cars, trade them in a few years later and the less well off will get them. The problem will be that the $40k cars aren’t cheap to fix, so when someone making minimum wage in 15-20 years gets the car a basic repair will bankrupt them. Car ownership will become a luxury for the lower class and will further separate the low and middle classes.
MechMeister@reddit
It's already becoming that way. With emissions standards pushing everything toward turbo's and mild hybrids, it's just more things to fail.
Look at the new Land Cruiser and 4runner. The hybrid get the same MPG as the V6 did in the real world, but somehow it meets EPA emissions where the V6 did not. So the running costs are the same but the turbo hybrid is three times the complexity.
noodlecrap@reddit
the hybrid yes but the turbo not. diesels which are known to last longer than equivalent petrols are literally all turbo and have been for like 30 years
caterham09@reddit
While I disagree about the mpg statement in terms of the 4 runner, the fact is that mpg is only part of the story with the emissions standards.
The other thing they are concerned about is the gasses and particulate released. Unfortunately the things that increase those are cylinder number and rpms, because they effectively increase the number of combustions per second the engine produces.
Whiskey_Clear@reddit
New Land Cruiser owner here... They absolutely DO NOT get the same mpg in the real world. 23.5mpg over the first 5000 miles in the Land Cruiser 1958 trim. No 4Runner or GX has ever sniffed that. GX460 was like 14mpg in similar driving conditions. Further, the new Land Cruiser absolutely hauls ass with all that instant torque compared to the prior motors. I'm a little scared maintenance wise, but more about the trans than anything else. I trust the hybrid systems, and would rather have the 4 popper than the TTV6 reliability wise.
4score-7@reddit
I’m glad to hear the LC is a superior vehicle when it comes to efficiency. If I understand, the 4Runner will have this powertrain, or a version of it.
Now, let’s get back to pricing for the masses, specifically for the 4Runner. While never a “cheap” truck, it seems like the pricing of 2022 is holding pretty well in the used market.
By the way, what does pricing look like on the Land Cruiser?
BetterThanAFoon@reddit
to be honest sub $10K cars aren't cheap to fix either. Sister has a 2012 Civic and she paid a mint to have the AC compressor replaced. We cross shopped several shops and they all came in the same price range.
Hell I just replaced the Power Brake Booster Control Module on my 2021 Silverado. $300 part through rock auto, I did the work myself, and I had access to a tech tool for the reprogramming. If it was done at the dealership easily a $1500 job. Unless you can do the work yourself and have access to the right specialty tools.... repairing cars aint cheap.
mr_bots@reddit
10 year loans incoming!
Larcya@reddit
Power sports dealers are currently learning this exact lesson.
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
That's OK I'll just get a Polaris UTV on a 10 year loan! What could go wrong
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
That’s why somebody now asking dirty cheap Chinese cars now because they don’t mind to own one now.
StandupJetskier@reddit
84 months !
Free_Range_Gamer@reddit
Just add another year to the loan term /s
PeloquinsHunger@reddit
They'd sell more if they were 15 grand less...
efreedman503@reddit
Or if dealers didn’t mark them up
m0viestar@reddit
Trimming production will make dealer markups worse.
efreedman503@reddit
They’ll mark them up regardless, atleast where I live.
Geedunk@reddit
Broncos have been at invoice minus rebates for a few months now. Hell, you can get an F-150 Raptor at MSRP easy. The only vehicles I know with markup at this point are hybrid minivans and your P cars.
Tonyn15665@reddit
Agree. I was drooling when I saw the first official ads. but then it looks feaking cheap in real life. And the dealer price was more than $60K for a mid tier version. Decided to go with a GX460. Still chuckle whenever I see one, still cheap af lol
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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age_of_raava@reddit
GX is likely better off road than the Bronco… certainly more reliable
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
Uhhh no... Especially not a Sasquatch Bronco, or a Raptor.
UrbanAlaska@reddit
I got my GX 1 year-old with 10k miles for $30k. They used to be the most slept on 4x4 deal you could get because they were so ugly, lol.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Prior_Mind_4210@reddit
The gx460 is a great offroader. One of the best out there. It's just a nicer 4runner.
TallFontPie@reddit
It's a nicer Land Cruiser.
-Guesswhat@reddit
*It's a nicer European/Asian Land Cruiser.. In the U.S. we get a completely different Land Cruiser that's nowhere near as capable.
Corsair4@reddit
Well no, because Europe and Asia got the full fat J200 Land Cruiser.
They also got the J150 Land Cruiser Prado, which is what the GX is was, and what the 4runner shared a platform with.
Now, the J250 is sold as the Land Cruiser Prado in some markets, but sold as the Land Cruiser in the US. The J300 is referred to as the Land Cruiser in some markets, and isn't sold in the US as a Toyota at all. The closest we get is the J310 LX.
Long and short of it: Anywhere a J300 Land Cruiser is sold, the J250 is sold as the Prado.
And this is why it's so much easier to keep this shit straight if you use the series codes, rather than the names.
-Guesswhat@reddit
I mean that's what I said.. The GX460 is not the Land Cruiser Americans now know. It's the Land Cruiser only sold in other markets.
We only get the baby Land Cruiser now which is different from the GX460..
Corsair4@reddit
It's a nicer Land Cruiser Prado, which itself was a cousin to the 4Runner, in that generation.
-Guesswhat@reddit
Ehh it's okay for a luxury SUV. Saying it's "one of the best off-roaders out there" is a bit ridiculous imo. It has 8" of ground clearance and has 21° approach and breakover angles. That's about on-par with a Subaru Outback... A Ford Bronco, especially one of the Badlands or Sasquatch trims, is on an entirely different playing field
Tonyn15665@reddit
The market price was the same at that time. Everyone seemed to have to overland at all cost during the covid days lmao.
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Designatedrhythm@reddit
I really wanted one until I saw one in person at a pre launch event. I immediately didn't want one after I sat in it.
Only the bronco raptor seems awesome until you see the starting price of 93k?!
XSC@reddit
I was looking at getting one but the trim I wanted was basically in the 50s. Just ridiculous for a vehicle that may not be reliable.
Mythrilfan@reddit
What does reliability have to do with anything? Price and reliability aren't correlated, nor are expectations of reliability (Land Rovers aren't cheap cars either, for example, but nobody expects them to be)
Montreal4life@reddit
was very scared of the reliability on this one
Jesburger@reddit
I've had zero problems on mine so far 40k miles
cptpb9@reddit
All due respect I do that in maybe 24 months? I’d call something reliable once confirmed I can take it to 150k miles without major powertrain or electrical issues
7eregrine@reddit
MPG?
ToddtheRugerKid@reddit
Ok cool, so we've determined it's not a Chrysler. Get back to us in a few years when you hit 100,000 or if the fucking engine skips timing at 83,000 miles.
probsdriving@reddit
Well, pay the cost to be the boss or buy the base/big bend.
I thought my 2 door base for $35k was a tremendous deal. It was such a fun daily driver and was super capable off road with some all terrains.
OprahFtwphrey@reddit
Was? You've already gotten rid of it
probsdriving@reddit
Sold it 6mo after buying it because I placed a deposit for a GR Corolla the year prior (I had one of the first delivered in Texas).
The hype at the time was huge. Spring 2023. I sold the Bronco (broke even after taxes) and got the GR.
Massively regretted it. I thought the Bronco was a lot more fun around town. Two door, manual, removable roof. It was the perfect car to bomb around Austin in.
Waiting till I can grab a CPO example in the 20s. I really enjoyed it.
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
So you sold the GR already too? Jeez man. That's a lot of eaten depreciation.
probsdriving@reddit
Put about 3k miles on it, tons of rally cross abuse (front bumper literally wouldn’t stay popped in on one side). Toyota dealer I bought it from gave me about $500 less than what I paid after tax. Worth it. Sorry to whoever bought it.
It’s rare I lose money on my toy cars. My Elise was a smoking deal, bought and drove it halfway across the US. I’ll probably make $10k when I decide to sell it.
This hobby can be fun if you’re good with facebook marketplace and Craigslist alerts 😜
Being single helps too.
MechMeister@reddit
$35k isn't too bad for the automatic, but for the 7 speed I'd say that's kind of a rip off. Enough people have been burned by Ford quality that many are reluctant to pay too much for them if you aren't paying cash.
2001em2@reddit
There hasn't been a meaningful price differences for transmissions in over a decade so not totally sure what you're on about.
MechMeister@reddit
The auto is a $1500 option. In the real world manuals sell for less than $1500 compared to autos, especially used. I could see a manual bronco being appealing for the $32k mark. But at $35k or higher you'd have trouble re selling for near that price, IMO. Manual Sasquatch can be had with very few miles for $35k-$38k. Base automatics are selling for $38-$40k at least in my area. So a base manual should be way closer to $32k.
I know this because I kind of want one but I've already been burned by Ford's manual transmission in the past lol
probsdriving@reddit
I don’t own automatics aside from my truck, and I’m not scared of owning cars with problematic manual transmissions.
If there’s a problem Ford can worry about it while I drive my other shit boxes.
BayLAGOON@reddit
Ended up ordering a 2024 Big Bend without the Sasquatch pack for $42k USD before production stopped, and I'm glad I did because of how they messed with the options for 2025. Rear locker as a standalone option got cut out and put behind the Black Diamond trim becoming an option pack.
CUDAcores89@reddit
It took me six months to buy my 2022 Toyota Prius for $25k. And I plan to keep this car for 15+ years until the engine explodes. I’ll never in a million years buy a bronco.
ClearlyJacob18@reddit
Wild to try to compare a Prius to a Bronco. You obviously not the target audience in the first place.
downvoteyous@reddit
i bought a bicycle, much cheaper
not as many wheels tho
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
I financed my walking shoes at 3% for 36 months
ClearlyJacob18@reddit
Shoulda got the training wheels package. That comes with 2 more to give you 4! Now you know 😂
drags_@reddit
It took me six months to buy my 2019 Mustang GT for $30k. And I plan to keep this car for 15+ years until the engine explodes. I’ll never in a million years buy a Prius.
King_in_a_castle_84@reddit
Same, only F-150 lol. My dad's '86 is somehow still on the road with what has to be over 500k miles by now. My '15 only has ~90k, rookie numbers.
CUDAcores89@reddit
And that is your right! That’s why we have many brands of cars!
JizzyMcKnobGobbler@reddit
That's super relevant. Thanks for sharing.
King_in_a_castle_84@reddit
It seems like people that go waaayyyy out of their way to hype up Toyota even when it's not relevant are the sakind of people that desperately try to insert political views into every conversation no matter what it's about...
skemesx@reddit
My condolences
CUDAcores89@reddit
Believe it or not some of us are NOT car guys. I want a machine that transports my ass from A to B in the cheapest way possible and a Prius fits that bill.
Titan0917@reddit
So why are you here?
le_b0mb@reddit
I’m sure they’re trying to discern that themselves.
withsexyresults@reddit
But those folks usually hang in personalfinance or something not cars
PeloquinsHunger@reddit
all I wanted was the base with the upgraded engine and it was almost 50k, thats when I just started looking at luxury cars.
King_in_a_castle_84@reddit
It's ridiculous even if it is reliable.
spongebob_meth@reddit
almost guaranteed to be unreliable based on ford's record over the last 15 years. Such a shame because all through the 80s and 90s they were probably the most reliable domestic brand.
BetterThanAFoon@reddit
Sometimes I wonder if I have become my parents. In the late 90's when I was a teenager they used to balk at car prices thinking there is now way a new car should cost X, they used to cost X 10 years ago.
Nowadays I say the same thing, and it has nothing to do with affordability for me personally but what I remember the new car prices to be. I think a mid $30K car should get you decent sized new car with most options, but in reality that is a mid 40's vehicle with the top trims coming in at the low $50k range. Then I look at cars in the $30K range and wonder WTF does a civic cost so much....that used to be well into Accord territory.
Are we just getting older and not adjusting expectations for inflation?
ducky21@reddit
Costs are going up, manufacturers are passing that onto consumers, and wages haven't kept pace with these rising costs for about 50 years now.
It's gotten even worse with the rapid inflation of the past few years. Inflation is slowing down, but that means prices are rising more slowly, not prices are decreasing. Decreasing would mean deflation which would be an actual economic collapse in modern America.
So no, you're not crazy, but you also need to adjust your expectations. They will never cost less ever again.
Realtrain@reddit
The original Ford Bronco in 1966 had a starting price of $2,194, which is about $21,300 today adjusted for inflation.
DarkLF@reddit
How much did current tech or modern safety features that we take for granted now cost in 1966? It's a little disingenuous to compare the 2. The 1966 version couldn't be made or sold today.
4score-7@reddit
It’s not even comparable what a 1966 Bronco vs a today Bronco has in terms of tech or safety or just drive ability. Almost like comparing Tupperware to stainless steel containers. They’re just not the same thing, you know?
Let’s throw inflation rates out the window for the comparison. They are both passenger vehicles, right? How about, in just short of 60 years, the price new going up by 10x? That makes it $22,000. How about 20x? $44,000. Now we’re getting close.
Median household income was $7,400 in 1966 > https://www.epi.org/blog/a-history-of-the-federal-minimum-wage-85-years-later-the-minimum-wage-is-far-from-equitable/#:~:text=As%20amendments%20were%20made%20to,Black%20workers%20were%20disproportionately%20employed.
Median household income in 2023 was $80,000 > https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p60-282.html#:~:text=Highlights,and%20Table%20A%2D1).
11.5 times higher.
Realtrain@reddit
Oh I completely agree. The fact still stands that cars just are not as affordable as they once were.
DavoinShowerHandel1@reddit
Let me preface by saying I don't disagree in the slightest, but isn't this almost every vehicle on the market? I don't see many vehicles that aren't overpriced anymore.
AllLibsAreBoomers@reddit
It’s almost as if MSRPs are not being accurately produced, vehicles actually cost more now than we want to accept, and everyone is blaming dealerships for the problems caused by all the people who supported locking down the global supply chain over the seasonal flu
DavoinShowerHandel1@reddit
I'll reserve my opinions to avoid the discussion turning too political, but I'll agree that manufacturers are as much to blame as dealerships, as much as people hate to believe it. We shouldn't be dealing with supply chain issues at this point anymore. They just found out people would pay that much for vehicles and so it'll never go away. All vehicles are wildly overpriced compared to what they used to be.
impulsivetech@reddit
The pandemic and stock market hysteria taught them that you can make the same revenue off less units when you keep supply limited and prices high.
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metengrinwi@reddit
There’s only so many people who want a 14mpg car to drive around town in.
Vhozite@reddit
lol for real dealers/manufacturers will doing literally anything but lower the price
VarusAlmighty@reddit
And if they looked better. Saw from behind the other day and was not impressed.
Due-Dirt-8428@reddit
They’d sell a billion of them if they were only $5 each! Why didn’t they think of that
Medical-Gate-9978@reddit
Lol
What_the_8@reddit
Hell even $10k less
devereux619@reddit
The problem is too. You couldn't factory order a base model for awhile. You had to get the Sasquatch package which was an additional $5k or so. It's ridiculous, then you couldn't get one at MSRP. They are different now, but when I was looking it was crazy
Tonyn15665@reddit
Agree. I was drooling when I saw the first official ads. but then it looks feaking cheap in real life. And the dealer price was more than $60K for a mid tier version. Decided to go with a GX460. Still chuckle whenever I see one, still cheap af lol
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
Why not try to trim the price first? They're cool but holy shit they're not competition for the G Wagon
RevvCats@reddit
Not surprised, after a few years of never seeing them on lots because they’d be sold before they arrived I’ve noticed a few dealers who are building up an inventory. Hell one has at least two 90k Raptors sitting on the lot, few of the 60k heritage editions, and a handful of others.
Deflated_Hive@reddit
The Bronco will follow the same fate as the Gladiator.
Everyone who wanted one got one. Niche vehicles are unsustainable after a few years. At least with the Gladiator they share enough parts with the Wrangler that risk is mitigated. But that Bronco? Oh man. Hope they find a way to make it into a Lincoln or something.
Ihate_reddit_app@reddit
The Bronco is the Wrangler competitor and Jeep continues to crank those terrible things out, so maybe it can stay around in some capacity.
The Gladiator is and always will be a stupid vehicle. It's not a good truck and it's not a good Wrangler. It's just some like middle compromise that doesn't do anything particularly well.
Kermut@reddit
The Bronco is the vehicle that near 100% of Wrangler purchases should be buying instead.
I love me a Wrangler but I don’t think I’ll ever actually own one
Ihate_reddit_app@reddit
I'm not even a Ford guy, I'm actually a GM guy and I've been looking at picking up a Bronco for fun. I think they look nice and seem to have good features.
noname87scr@reddit
Test drive one. We rented one through Turo in Phoenix a couple years ago. Was surprised how bad the driving experience was
BipolarMeHeHe@reddit
Apparently they're way better than wranglers since they have independent rear suspension, if that tells you how bad wranglers are. It driving like shit is a plus for some of the buyers 🤣
MozartWillVanish@reddit
I mean, you’re not going to feel like you’re riding in luxury in a vehicle built for off road with removable doors and roof. Lol
noname87scr@reddit
Yeah but if you’re going to make something ride like a jeep then make it as capable with solid axles at both ends. The IFS does nothing to make the ride decent.
Ihate_reddit_app@reddit
Yeah I've definitely heard legitimately concerns. I know a couple people that bought them and sold them really quick after. They only held onto them a couple months.
metengrinwi@reddit
…and a Toyota Sienna is the vehicle that near 80% of Bronco & Wrangler purchasers should be buying instead.
adudeguyman@reddit
Why do you think this?
L_Cpl_Scott_Bukkake@reddit
I beg to differ. It's a great wrangler because it has a longer wheelbase. It's competitive in towing and payload to most midsize trucks as well.
RevvCats@reddit
Yeah I don’t think this spells the end of the Bronco, just the end of the high demand for something new where Ford couldn’t make them fast enough.
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
That's actually not a bad idea..akin to the Land cruiser/GX. Maybe do away with removable doors or something but there's something there...
Vhozite@reddit
Bronco in a tuxedo made to be the American G-Wagon is exactly the type of vehicle Lincoln needs to get back on the map
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Same with Mustang, Ford never consider to make some fun cars for Lincoln because of brand reputation. Lincoln is near impossible to rid of its land yacht culture.
Eddie_shoes@reddit
No it won’t. The Gladiator is a very niche vehicle because it’s a truck based off a very rugged SUV. The Bronco is far more liveable than the Wrangler.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference.
ryker888@reddit
They share a platform with the Ranger and engines too. That certainly helps mitigate
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
It wasn't just that though. So many dealers I saw had dumb as hell markups on them. So yeah, those who really wanted one paid over MSRP. The rest I guess aren't dumb enough.
idontremembermyoldus@reddit
There are at least a couple of Braptors around the country about to have a birthday on the lot.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
The average payment for these cars is like $1,200 a month. Who tf has money for that lmao
BootyWizardAV@reddit
The people spending $1200 a month on an offroader don't care that you can get a toyota for way less, they're buying the offroader because they want the offroader.
7eregrine@reddit
More than you think. Not me. But you shouldn't see the cRa driving around my toney Midwest suburb. 💅
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
60% of US households earn less than $100k/year, and top 10% of households earn about $170k a year. So it’s just crazy to me. But I guess 35 million people is still a lot.
KokrSoundMed@reddit
No I'm with you. I'm a family physician, so lower paid for a physician, but still mid 200s. I was lusting after a rivian or silvarado EV, bought an used midsize instead. I just can't stomach more than like $500 a month on a car payment.
7eregrine@reddit
I see this shit a lot on Reddit. "How do people have money?".
You're talking somebody's statistics... I'm talking about what I see on the daily. Audi, BMW, MB, Jag, my neighbor just bought a Stevio.. The fucking millionaires that live on the shoreline up by Lake Erie? The ritzier suburbs in this town?
A lot of people doing just fine. And this is Ohio... Check out Miami.
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
Crazy to think it was just a few years ago that people were paying $10k, $20k, or more above MSRP for one. Now you can find them for thousands off MSRP.
I just sometimes wonder if the people who felt they had to buy these types of vehicles right when they came out and paid above MSRP if they are kicking themselves for not waiting just a couple years first.
BootyWizardAV@reddit
I bought mine for a bit over MSRP, but that's because my previous car literally died and I needed a new car asap. I don't regret it though, it's been a great car these past couple years.
4score-7@reddit
These people are incapable of controlling themselves when they have two nickels to rub together. They just can’t. They contributed to the inflation of the last few years by being on the other side: demand.
Ford will build and sell you a car at as high of a price as you’ll pay. That number could just not be high enough from 2021-2022. Now, it’s tapped out.
TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit
It's insane to me cause I've done that with like...a $700 guitar, a $400 graphics card. Couldn't resist. But people paying 100k for a Bronco?? How can you impulsively spend that much money?
KokrSoundMed@reddit
I mean I impulsively bought my truck, ~$26k cash. But, to be fair, it was what I had saved as a down payment for a Ramcharger assuming they would have been like $70k. With the incoming tarries and inflation, I didn't think it was smart to wait, saw a diesel GMC canyon, bought it 2 days later.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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SchemeShoddy4528@reddit
really where?
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
I just did a search on Autotrader in the southeast within 300 miles of where I am at. Just about every dealership is advertising $3k off or more from MSRP. Even a Bronco Raptor for $4k off MSRP.
craichead@reddit
I got soooo lucky. I placed an order several months after the announcement and paid $29k for a base 2 door. Drove it for 2 years and sold it for $38k.
as_36@reddit
Waning demand, give me a break - the prices are too high.
baummer@reddit
Sadly they built a terrible vehicle
schwartzki@reddit
My partner would like one but it would need to be about 25-30k CPO to appeal to us and they just aren't there used.
4score-7@reddit
We would like to buy another used 4Runner. My 2017 I got for $31k used in 2019 is now closer to $42-$45k for equivalent (2 years old, 4wd, 30-40k miles.)
We need another car, but it won’t be a 4Runner (and we could afford it, with not too much difficulty, but just because I can doesn’t mean I should.)
I’m just frozen. Lots of vehicles for far less than that price. I just don’t like them. That’s on me.
schwartzki@reddit
Preach, I also miss my 4Runner V8. Probably get a GX460.
Overlord1317@reddit
It's an expensive station wagon ... sorry, SUV ... that has none of the luxuries or brand cachet that people want if they're in the market for an SUV.
The only people I know who drive them are stay-at-home-moms, and most of the ones who are wealthy enough to afford a Bronco don't want to drive a Ford.
hundredjono@reddit
The highest trim Ford Bronco fully loaded with every option possible is almost $100,000 MSRP
73629265@reddit
Waning demand? That's surprising to me. Around these parts, the big Bronco's are so incredibly common that it's basically impossible to go anywhere and not see a half dozen of them driving around.
7eregrine@reddit
I absolutely see 1 or 2 every day .. on my 2 mile commute.
kqlx@reddit
Ushering in a new decade of boring economy cars. The cycle repeats
caverunner17@reddit
I have to wonder if it’s a combination of either a limited market for a convertible off-road or that the Jeep cult is too strong for Ford to make serious damage.
When it was announced, I was pretty interested. However, the limited tow rating, and the fact that the hard top was an extra $2000 and something I would never take off, made it a lot less appealing. Combined with gas mileage that seemed pretty mediocre. Heck, the F150 gets better gas mileage even though it is larger and weighs 1000 pounds more.
PeloquinsHunger@reddit
The hard top was always standard, not sure what you're talking about.
caverunner17@reddit
Negative. Just verified: it’s an additional $2400 at least on the lower two trims. Didn’t check the upper level ones.
PeloquinsHunger@reddit
I'm looking at the configurator right now. Hard top included. Soft top 2600. What country are you in?
caverunner17@reddit
Look at the 4 door and get back to me.
PeloquinsHunger@reddit
So it's standard on one and not on the other, what is the pedantic attitude for?
caverunner17@reddit
You edited your post after I replied.
Also 4-doors (at least Jeeps) represent something like 90% of the sales. If you're interested in a 2-door, great, but most aren't, so yes, it's a $2400 upcharge for the vast majority of folks who would be buying one.
ricardoac69@reddit
Was only standard on the 2 door.
PeloquinsHunger@reddit
So... its STANDARD then.
BudgetBison@reddit
Only on the 2 door since there isn’t a soft top option. Pretty pricy add on for 4 door models.
SchemeShoddy4528@reddit
the bronco is a mutt competing with a thorough bred. the wrangler has solid front and rear axles and is much cheaper, and SIGNIFICANT more after market support for the hardcore guys. v6 is also standard. If you're looking for a true offroader you're getting the jeep. I'd definitely want a bronco if they made a version that wasn't convertible.
C-C-X-V-I@reddit
I'll never have a wrangler because I'm off road too much. Solid axle is only good for rocks and slow trails, it sucks everywhere else. IFS has a bad rep from the early gm IFS but we're decades past that. It's annoying how much I have to slow down when there's a wrangler in the group.
MJather@reddit
I have to agree considering that the compromises for the convertible top and mediocre towing capacity (and not caring about mpg) were two of the major reasons I ended up with my grenadier. I imagine if I was a more sensible person I would’ve just bought a comparable Toyota.
It also believe that wrangler sales are down a little bit too, but admittedly they’re still selling a lot.
kenedtsu@reddit
I’ve lived in a lot of US cities, but I currently live in LA. It’s the capital of people wanting, leasing, and showing off new cars. Everything from new Civics to Cybertrucks and everything in between.
I know the Bronco isn’t popular because even in LA they haven’t really taken off. I feel more Honda Prologues have been catching my eye lately than any new Broncos.
I stopped in a parking lot the other day to look at a Bronco R…because it was the first and only one I’ve seen since it was released.
nikkarus@reddit
Thinking LA is representative of the US is the most delusional thing I’ve seen today.
Hirsuitism@reddit
They didn't say that. They said LA is the capital of image obsessed people.
nikkarus@reddit
“I know the bronco isn’t popular because even in LA they haven’t really taken off”
Hirsuitism@reddit
Did you read the first paragraph?
Recoil42@reddit
Did you?
They're suggesting LA is the bellwether of whether a vehicle like Bronco will be popular or not elsewhere. Representative of the US, in other words, rather than its own little taste bubble.
lalabera@reddit
It is lmao.
handymanshandle@reddit
New trucks aren’t traditionally that popular as show-off vehicles in Southern California, speaking as someone who lived there and still has family there. This extends to the Wrangler and the Bronco, both of which would have more prevalence in a beach community than they would in the big city or the endless suburbs of Los Angeles.
Out here in North Alabama people were stepping all over each other just to pay a $20k dealer markup for a V6 Bronco.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
I'm sure the Braptor might find a niche in the Glamis crowd.
impulsivetech@reddit
Meanwhile, they are very popular in Louisiana.
Chosen1PR@reddit
They are much more common here in Texas where everyone feels like they have to own a giant truck, even if it winds up becoming a pavement princess.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
I'm in L.A. county and I see Bronco's everywhere, including more than a handful of Bronco Raptor's. They're definitely popular, but then again it could be region dependent. They might be more popular out in the suburbs than the city itself.
Chewbaccas_Bowcaster@reddit
I’m in LA too and I see them everywhere. i’m more inclined to believe the interest rates on loans to be more of an issue.
dresden_k@reddit
SUVs aren't waning. It's like all anyone is buying. The fact that the Ford Bronco has crap sales maybe indicates that despite the fact that they look good enough (subjectively, my opinion), they kind of suck, so nobody wants to buy them, compared to all the other SUV options out there...?
Reduxalicious@reddit
I imagine the Pricing isn't helping it much.
I was glancing at the Broncos and was going to potentially pivot to a 2 Door if the dealer tried to play ADM games with my Ranger.
With the 2.7L as an option spec'd similar to the Ranger Raptor as far as anemity features go (the RR is fully loaded except for optional key pad, graphics, and beadlock capable wheels)
It came out $5k more MSRP than my RR.
I can't comment on driving or highway/offroad comfort but I'm glad I ended up with the Ranger after sitting in a few different Broncos including the Raptor variant.
doyouevensunbro@reddit
I love mine, but was incredibly lucky to get it when I did for MSRP and a 2.5% interest rate. With today's interest rates I wouldn't want to be buying any new car to be honest.
g-4-ces@reddit
Willing the bet the Ford Bronco isn’t the only vehicle with production cuts.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
It’s only EVs. I know this because I read the headlines.
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
People seem to be missing your sarcasm
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
I fixed it.
ShadowNick@reddit
Reading is hard....
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
It is.
hawkeyes007@reddit
Let me know when the bronco becomes an EV
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
Apparently nobody else reads the headlines that EV sales are down. EV sales are down. EV sales are down. Oh yeah, all car sales are down, including the Bronco.
Ok-Improvement-3670@reddit
Wow. It’s all car dealers on here. Sorry your sales are down.
Realtrain@reddit
So which is it, according to your headlines?
King_in_a_castle_84@reddit
Let me guess, trimming the base model so they can keep profit margins high?
Justinaug29@reddit
I want one but the prices are insane. Same with a lot of other vehicles. These companies only care about larger profits, but hopefully they will feel the repercussions of screwing their customers.
mini4x@reddit
My local dealer had 12 on the lot and they have a $3500 rebate on them.
idontremembermyoldus@reddit
Mine has almost 300 Broncos spread between their 15 locations. They have several Braptors with $12 and $13,000 off (closer to $10-11,000 off as they inflate the sticker with crap).
porterbrown@reddit
Easy. Too expensive.
Make them cheaper.
I'm looking soon. Gross shopping 2 door wrangler and 2 door bronco.
Dadfish55@reddit
I had a client that paid $109,000 for one. Not sure what it was equipped with. I asked if it was only one. WTF?
Ok_War6355@reddit
I wanted to order a base with a manual tranny so bad. Ford wouldn’t let me order it. I lost interest and bought a Ram because Jeep recalled their clutches and wouldn’t sell me a Gladiator w/manual. These car companies did it to themselves.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
I Turo'ed a Bronco Badlands for a week this summer, I was seriously considering it.
The a-la-carte pricing turned me away. Say what you want about Stellantis pricing, but at least their trim packages make more sense. The Bronco nickel and dimes you for weird things like a $750 towing package.
ChirpyRaven@reddit
The trailering package on the Wrangler in your signature is $1200 lol
nowhereman86@reddit
Maybe if they had a hybrid or electric I’d consider. The MPGs on these things is abysmal
natesully33@reddit
For the longest time there were rumors of a Bronco PHEV to compete with the 4xE - I don't know what happened. I'm holding out for the Scout myself, or maybe Rivian R2 depending on how each ends up in real life.
TaxManKnocking@reddit
Maybe they should actually start punishing dealerships for charging 10k over sticker?
md517@reddit
Had my sights on a two door Black Diamond with a plan to buy in the spring. That’s gone. Either it’s a base model which lacks a lot of things I’d like or the Badlands which is way too much money. Bummer.
probsdriving@reddit
Well, pay the cost to be the boss or buy the base/big bend.
I thought my 2 door base for $35k was a tremendous deal. It was such a fun daily driver and was super capable off road with some all terrains.
DaKruse@reddit
Maybe I’ll be able to afford one in a couple years.
Fcckwawa@reddit
Lmfao, fomo hype only lasts so long 😂
Firearms_N_Freedom@reddit
there are some great deals on sub 10k miles Braptors out there
uglybushes@reddit
Is it the price that’s too high? No, the demand is low!
4score-7@reddit
The money well has run dry. Anyone that wanted a new vehicle, and had the means to make it happen, is now up to their eyeballs.
I’m in need of a second car. And I have tastes far too high for my income. I’m out. I’ll sit here and wait for my second car, of 9 years, to be repaired, however long it takes. Close to 3 months in the shop now.
Mobile619@reddit
Everything is overpriced. That is why sales are dropping once the people with money who absolutely needed to have it got theirs.
They should really be trimming price.
vampyrelestat@reddit
Gotta keep those prices up smh
ronchee1@reddit
The price of vehicles and how much more the necessities in life are, this may become more common.
Companies got greedy and now here we are
The local dealership still has 2023s on the lot
Latios19@reddit
60k for a Bronco… not everyone can afford that!
Chosen1PR@reddit
They are much more common here in Texas where everyone feels like they have to own a giant truck, even if it winds up becoming a pavement princess.
DrBromanDude@reddit
Maybe if a decently specced one wasn’t so far on the wrong side of 50k there’d be more interest
PickleGaGa@reddit
I was interested before the massive MSRP increases