"Fine" is an overstatement. They're surviving by selling mall crawler SUV's to people who think the G-Class to common. They are so tone deaf to enthusiasts that someone started Eneos to build a better Land Rover. And on top of all that they depreciate like lead because their reliability makes a boosted RX7 look like a Camry. Their position is pretty precarious IMO. I don't know how Tata plans to keep these brands going and all their recent moves show that they don't either.
Ineos is what you mean. I haven't seen much on the Grenadier ever since I first learned about it a few years back. The design and what /u/DodgerBlueRobert1 posted looks like an iconic throwback design back to the era of Art Deco which was from the 1930's and looks like a modern interpretation of a 1930's Jaguar vehicle.
There's an Ineos dealership near Boston and they bring their cars out to shows; I haven't driven one, but they look pretty nice both outside and inside, and definitely feel like a modern take on the original LR Defender. I've seen a few driving around the streets here too.
I'm more beholden to Alfa, but if I was in the market for a big SUV, I'd be interested in the Grenadier.
It's abundantly clear I missed the train on the vehicle being shipped. There's a dealership for them in the Puget area. I seldom drive through that particular area which is why I must have missed the mark on these. I would not be surprised if I've been around one and thought it was another car. My bad on my part here. I would get one if I had a reason to because I always liked the old Defenders.
We're good on SUV's and not really the outdoors type to appreciate Ineos or a Defender, and if I'm being completely honest the only full size SUV I'd have an interest in buying in the future would probably be a full size SUV with creature comforts and luxury. Most SUV's were designed to be pavement princesses in the first place.
They've been increasing sales YoY for most of the last decade, and despite taking a post pandemic drop (like most carmakers) are coming back strong. JLR as a whole had their best year ever in 2024.
I wish I could "survive" at that level of competency.
The reality is absolutely no one cares about the "enthusiast market" as this sub sees it. It's such a small, insulated, gate-kept community mostly of people who don't buy new cars and certainly not new Land Rovers, which has been a mall-crawler brand first and foremost for at least the last 30 years.
Land Rover does fine in that niche. It’s buyers keep buying them because there isn’t really any direct competitors to them.
The GX550 has reliability, off-road capability and pretty luxurious, but it is slow and not quite on the same level of luxury.
The Cayenne is sportier and luxurious and reliable, but is not on the same level off-road.
The G wagon is probably the closest competitor, but they are insanely expensive and arguably way uglier.
The buyers don’t care about reliability. They buy them because they feel are the best all rounder luxury SUVs you can buy, at home in a business meeting downtown or on an off road trail after work.
1960’s-70’s communism. Literally. The companies were taken over my labor groups then nationalized by the federal government. By the time they were finally privatized again they were 20 years behind the new competition from Japan.
The British are too hands off; all major industries will require the state to tip the scale a bit in order to survive, but the British were unwilling to do that unlike the Americans, Chinese, Japanese, germans, etc. same reason why Spain and Sweden don’t have domestics anymore
It died because they hadn’t released a new, competitive product in years. A major rebrand targeting a luxury car buying demographic that doesn’t exist isn’t going to help. Heritage and style is all Jaguar has, lose that, and it has nothing.
It died because outside of the F-Type, the brand has been a disgusting cesspit of mediocrity that lost everything interesting about its heritage in the 80's and was rolling downhill towards death entirely powered by nostalgia for something that never existed — much like most of their customers in that time period.
At least this commercial is trying to bring back the fun Jaguar used to have as part of their brand ethos. If 90% of your brand is style, why not market it like a fashion brand? And why don't you think a luxury car buying market doesn't exist? Who do you think is giving Porsche and Lamborghini and Ferrari one record-setting quarter after another?
If 90% of your brand is style, why not market it like a fashion brand?
Everyone markets their cars like a fashion item. Jeep, Ferrari, even Dussenburg was doing it in the 1920s. It’s not new or innovative, it’s been standard practice for a century.
At least this commercial is trying to bring back the fun
The average new car buyer is 50 years old. More expensive cars lean even older. Does that ad read as fun or aspirational to a 50+ year old?
And why don't you think a luxury car buying market doesn't exist? Who do you think is giving Porsche and Lamborghini and Ferrari one record-setting quarter after another?
99% of 911s never even break the speed limit, none the less race. Young people don’t buy them because they don’t have the money.
You won't convince them. These are the same people who think Lotus would have been better "doing the same thing it's always done", despite the fact that all Lotus has done for the last 40 years is "be in desperate financial trouble" over and over.
Chris Harris had a video that I think sums up all the failing car companies well. The issue is not the brand, it's the product. Branding won't convince people to buy junk.
Hopefully automotive execs are studying what Toyota is doing. In just 5 years, they went from being one of the most boring brands to being really nice in the public mind, and the only thing they changed is their mindset around how they design stuff. No branding change. All they did was change how some things were tuned and revamped the styling a little. And for good measure, they made 2 enthusiast cars: Supra and GR Corolla. That's all they did and it has probably cemented their status as a good car maker for the next 10 years.
As much as it sounds nice, there are a hundred fashion brands out there which immediately disprove this notion. Moschino, Balenciaga, and Luxottica all do just to name a handful. In the art world, Jeff Koons, Damien Hirst and a dozen more like them are all huge. I don't even have to tell you this is true of food.
Am I the only one who is actually sort of intrigued and excited about Jaguar’s reset? I think it’s great to see something different rather than all the manufacturers just copying each other.
Completely off topic but I saw a guy driving a v8/sc F-Type R to work in a few inches of snow yesterday and thought he is significantly cooler than the guys driving 911 Turbos to work in the snow with their fancy AWD. The car really captured some of the old Jaaaaaag swagger.
Sadly that panache never really translated to the rest of the offerings (to be fair, some of the sedans were at least interesting).
The AWD ones have an "AWD R" badge on the back, by the passenger tail light. The RWD ones just have the "R". It was definitely RWD unless someone really went to the trouble of rebadging to hide being AWD lol
I’ve always thought the v8 (and even the v6) f types were very underrated sports cars and the v8 definitely has a lovely soundtrack to it with character. I think it just went too long without a major redesign and it just grew stale :/ The early models also had the option for a stick which was cool to me
The stick was unfortunately only with the V6 for a couple of years. They also have really bad quality control, and cheap out in many places which cause most of the reliability problems.
For example, a plastic coolant pipe with a coupling sitting under the supercharger, in the V. Yeah, that shit bursts and if you don't catch it immediately and shut the car off, goodbye engine. Electronic diffs that grenade themselves all the time. Many other plastic pieces in the engine and cooling system that disintegrate from heat.
I really wanted to get one, still do, but reading up on the problems scared me off.
Luckily the v6 sounded surprisingly pretty good and had some pep but yeah i’m sure the reliability issues and some questionable engineering decisions led to its downfall of the model
I am. Of course this whole concept is lost on car enthusiast blogs. They don't take into consideration the fact that the majority of the people who buy luxury cars aren't here, and they don't care about engine displacement, lap times, or the silhouette of a car from the 1970s.
I am as well. Based on the new logo, ads, and now vehicle teasers it seems like they might end up with something terrible and stupid, but I'm willing to wait to see the final result
It’s going to be a lineup of copies. Marketing like this exists to distract from same old products. If they had a unique product, they’d have led with that.
Despite a thousand Reddit armchair critics pronouncing the death of BMW years ago based on design alone, their design language was commercially successful, and BMW is now arguably the most successful of the German 3. Goes to show you Reddit doesn't know shit.
It certainly was successful, despite how they look. There's no argument there. If it works for Jag, great. I just hope that's not what it comes down to.
Here's a truth r/cars wouldn't like: people don't want good-looking cars, they want trendy-looking cars. Being ugly does not matter as long they look trendy.
See fashion trends. You might think a classic tailored suit paired with sleek leather shoes looks timeless, but what people want today js trendy oversized clothes with chunky NBs.
Crossfire went on to inspire almost all of Mercedes modern design language. I think it was a really good design for the era and has an incredible legacy.
What's weird is it still has a cut-out for the rear window. It isn't just a body panel thing either — there are no seams. Just a cut-out. That along with the too-sharp body panel crease has me unconvinced this is a production-intent design. This seems more like concept art someone was throwing around at the rebranding table.
hundredjono@reddit
I can't believe this is the same company that made the E-Type and F-Type
MSTmatt@reddit
15 years of being owned by Tata will do that
vexx786@reddit
Land Rover Range Rover is doing fine.
RiftHunter4@reddit
"Fine" is an overstatement. They're surviving by selling mall crawler SUV's to people who think the G-Class to common. They are so tone deaf to enthusiasts that someone started Eneos to build a better Land Rover. And on top of all that they depreciate like lead because their reliability makes a boosted RX7 look like a Camry. Their position is pretty precarious IMO. I don't know how Tata plans to keep these brands going and all their recent moves show that they don't either.
U3011@reddit
Ineos is what you mean. I haven't seen much on the Grenadier ever since I first learned about it a few years back. The design and what /u/DodgerBlueRobert1 posted looks like an iconic throwback design back to the era of Art Deco which was from the 1930's and looks like a modern interpretation of a 1930's Jaguar vehicle.
I'm sure it'll look terrible on December 2.
backpackrack@reddit
I see Ones everywhere in Switzerland. There's a massive dealer nearby and seems to be the only one moving vehicles at the moment.
ShamAsil@reddit
There's an Ineos dealership near Boston and they bring their cars out to shows; I haven't driven one, but they look pretty nice both outside and inside, and definitely feel like a modern take on the original LR Defender. I've seen a few driving around the streets here too.
I'm more beholden to Alfa, but if I was in the market for a big SUV, I'd be interested in the Grenadier.
U3011@reddit
It's abundantly clear I missed the train on the vehicle being shipped. There's a dealership for them in the Puget area. I seldom drive through that particular area which is why I must have missed the mark on these. I would not be surprised if I've been around one and thought it was another car. My bad on my part here. I would get one if I had a reason to because I always liked the old Defenders.
We're good on SUV's and not really the outdoors type to appreciate Ineos or a Defender, and if I'm being completely honest the only full size SUV I'd have an interest in buying in the future would probably be a full size SUV with creature comforts and luxury. Most SUV's were designed to be pavement princesses in the first place.
the_lamou@reddit
They've been increasing sales YoY for most of the last decade, and despite taking a post pandemic drop (like most carmakers) are coming back strong. JLR as a whole had their best year ever in 2024.
I wish I could "survive" at that level of competency.
The reality is absolutely no one cares about the "enthusiast market" as this sub sees it. It's such a small, insulated, gate-kept community mostly of people who don't buy new cars and certainly not new Land Rovers, which has been a mall-crawler brand first and foremost for at least the last 30 years.
MegaCockInhaler@reddit
Land Rover does fine in that niche. It’s buyers keep buying them because there isn’t really any direct competitors to them. The GX550 has reliability, off-road capability and pretty luxurious, but it is slow and not quite on the same level of luxury. The Cayenne is sportier and luxurious and reliable, but is not on the same level off-road. The G wagon is probably the closest competitor, but they are insanely expensive and arguably way uglier.
The buyers don’t care about reliability. They buy them because they feel are the best all rounder luxury SUVs you can buy, at home in a business meeting downtown or on an off road trail after work.
RobinsShaman@reddit
They lease and get rid of it. Smart.
SacredWinner442@reddit
theyre pretty good at making garbage products for sure
StormRepulsive6283@reddit
Why’re most British brands not owned by British entities? Lotus with Geely, JLR with Tata, RR with BMW, Bentley with Mercedes, etc.
kovu159@reddit
1960’s-70’s communism. Literally. The companies were taken over my labor groups then nationalized by the federal government. By the time they were finally privatized again they were 20 years behind the new competition from Japan.
ShamAsil@reddit
The British auto industry collapsed decades ago from a variety of factors. There's whole video essays about it, but to sum up the main reasons:
After everything collapsed, the scraps got sold to the highest bidders. For a while, Ford owned Jaguar and Aston Martin.
x3nhydr4lutr1sx@reddit
No economy of scale once Japanese automakers became larger than British automakers.
StormRepulsive6283@reddit
But many American and German brands are with themselves. I wanted to know if it’s a problem specific to the British brands.
Maybe I’m missing what you’re saying. If you could expand what you just said
stav_and_nick@reddit
The British are too hands off; all major industries will require the state to tip the scale a bit in order to survive, but the British were unwilling to do that unlike the Americans, Chinese, Japanese, germans, etc. same reason why Spain and Sweden don’t have domestics anymore
U3011@reddit
Bentley is owned by VAG.
shrekwithhisearsdown@reddit
bentley is owned by vag group u donkey, not merc
RiftHunter4@reddit
Because it isn't. Jaguar died, and Tata is trying to reanimate the corpse with some disembodied fashion brand.
Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho@reddit
It died because they hadn’t released a new, competitive product in years. A major rebrand targeting a luxury car buying demographic that doesn’t exist isn’t going to help. Heritage and style is all Jaguar has, lose that, and it has nothing.
the_lamou@reddit
It died because outside of the F-Type, the brand has been a disgusting cesspit of mediocrity that lost everything interesting about its heritage in the 80's and was rolling downhill towards death entirely powered by nostalgia for something that never existed — much like most of their customers in that time period.
At least this commercial is trying to bring back the fun Jaguar used to have as part of their brand ethos. If 90% of your brand is style, why not market it like a fashion brand? And why don't you think a luxury car buying market doesn't exist? Who do you think is giving Porsche and Lamborghini and Ferrari one record-setting quarter after another?
Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho@reddit
Everyone markets their cars like a fashion item. Jeep, Ferrari, even Dussenburg was doing it in the 1920s. It’s not new or innovative, it’s been standard practice for a century.
The average new car buyer is 50 years old. More expensive cars lean even older. Does that ad read as fun or aspirational to a 50+ year old?
99% of 911s never even break the speed limit, none the less race. Young people don’t buy them because they don’t have the money.
Recoil42@reddit
You won't convince them. These are the same people who think Lotus would have been better "doing the same thing it's always done", despite the fact that all Lotus has done for the last 40 years is "be in desperate financial trouble" over and over.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Chris Harris had a video that I think sums up all the failing car companies well. The issue is not the brand, it's the product. Branding won't convince people to buy junk.
Hopefully automotive execs are studying what Toyota is doing. In just 5 years, they went from being one of the most boring brands to being really nice in the public mind, and the only thing they changed is their mindset around how they design stuff. No branding change. All they did was change how some things were tuned and revamped the styling a little. And for good measure, they made 2 enthusiast cars: Supra and GR Corolla. That's all they did and it has probably cemented their status as a good car maker for the next 10 years.
Recoil42@reddit
As much as it sounds nice, there are a hundred fashion brands out there which immediately disprove this notion. Moschino, Balenciaga, and Luxottica all do just to name a handful. In the art world, Jeff Koons, Damien Hirst and a dozen more like them are all huge. I don't even have to tell you this is true of food.
It can be both. Both things can be true.
jondes99@reddit
Maybe it’s April 1st where they live.
RobinsShaman@reddit
It won't be for long.
ShortwaveKiana@reddit
The overlords at Tata that do not care about innovation will do that to your company
chris8535@reddit
When the colonies try to buy the empire....
Boundish91@reddit
Please, please don't fuck up this last chance.
Evergreen1055@reddit
Am I the only one who is actually sort of intrigued and excited about Jaguar’s reset? I think it’s great to see something different rather than all the manufacturers just copying each other.
Recoil42@reddit
Yep. I liked the F-Type, but the rest of the lineup was really stale, and the direction wasn't positive.
While I don't know how successful it'll be, I'm glad they're doing something.
Fit_Equivalent3610@reddit
Completely off topic but I saw a guy driving a v8/sc F-Type R to work in a few inches of snow yesterday and thought he is significantly cooler than the guys driving 911 Turbos to work in the snow with their fancy AWD. The car really captured some of the old Jaaaaaag swagger.
Sadly that panache never really translated to the rest of the offerings (to be fair, some of the sedans were at least interesting).
aheartworthbreaking@reddit
Okay in fairness though that F-Type was probably AWD itself
Fit_Equivalent3610@reddit
The AWD ones have an "AWD R" badge on the back, by the passenger tail light. The RWD ones just have the "R". It was definitely RWD unless someone really went to the trouble of rebadging to hide being AWD lol
terrytek@reddit
I’ve always thought the v8 (and even the v6) f types were very underrated sports cars and the v8 definitely has a lovely soundtrack to it with character. I think it just went too long without a major redesign and it just grew stale :/ The early models also had the option for a stick which was cool to me
deka101@reddit
The stick was unfortunately only with the V6 for a couple of years. They also have really bad quality control, and cheap out in many places which cause most of the reliability problems.
For example, a plastic coolant pipe with a coupling sitting under the supercharger, in the V. Yeah, that shit bursts and if you don't catch it immediately and shut the car off, goodbye engine. Electronic diffs that grenade themselves all the time. Many other plastic pieces in the engine and cooling system that disintegrate from heat.
I really wanted to get one, still do, but reading up on the problems scared me off.
terrytek@reddit
Luckily the v6 sounded surprisingly pretty good and had some pep but yeah i’m sure the reliability issues and some questionable engineering decisions led to its downfall of the model
tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit
I am. Of course this whole concept is lost on car enthusiast blogs. They don't take into consideration the fact that the majority of the people who buy luxury cars aren't here, and they don't care about engine displacement, lap times, or the silhouette of a car from the 1970s.
StrongOnline007@reddit
I am as well. Based on the new logo, ads, and now vehicle teasers it seems like they might end up with something terrible and stupid, but I'm willing to wait to see the final result
learner888@reddit
Yes, I also would like to see the actual car and specs. Deriving anything only from logo is silly
Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho@reddit
It’s going to be a lineup of copies. Marketing like this exists to distract from same old products. If they had a unique product, they’d have led with that.
vexx786@reddit
Same. The old formula clearly wasn't working so why not try something drastically different.
MentalMiilk@reddit
I'm glad to see that they're doing something. Too many manufacturers just copy/paste in a segment they're uncompetitive in until they die.
PSfreak10001@reddit
Same here, I am really excited about their new lineup.
RVLVR-OCLT@reddit
Watch this isht be fope as duck
OreeOh@reddit
Too early to say but I hope they're not going the 'atrociously unique' design philosophy BMW went
Recoil42@reddit
Despite a thousand Reddit armchair critics pronouncing the death of BMW years ago based on design alone, their design language was commercially successful, and BMW is now arguably the most successful of the German 3. Goes to show you Reddit doesn't know shit.
OreeOh@reddit
It certainly was successful, despite how they look. There's no argument there. If it works for Jag, great. I just hope that's not what it comes down to.
Recoil42@reddit
Mf'ers will say this after having spent the entire 90s with a poster of a Countach on their walls.
OreeOh@reddit
Quite the tirade for one person's opinion
msennaGT@reddit
Here's a truth r/cars wouldn't like: people don't want good-looking cars, they want trendy-looking cars. Being ugly does not matter as long they look trendy.
See fashion trends. You might think a classic tailored suit paired with sleek leather shoes looks timeless, but what people want today js trendy oversized clothes with chunky NBs.
ArcticBP@reddit
It looks like someone put a portable AC vent on the back of a student’s rendering of a Cybercab…
verbol@reddit
« Copy nothing » except Art Deco vernacular
Corsair4@reddit
I was thinking an old copy machine at a Kinkos. Just need the right shade of off-white plastic.
I'm reasonably certain that was NOT the intended impression.
koenigsaurus@reddit
That’s the Air Conditioner from Brave Little Toaster before he offed himself.
VanillaWinter@reddit
Hold up, this could be the 80s aesthetic car of our dreams that’s not just 1/200 or someshit
Brisby604@reddit
Chrysler crossfire vibes
Brno_Mrmi@reddit
At least the crossfire looks somewhat good
cubs223425@reddit
No, they COPY NOTHING!
Big-Smoke99@reddit
DELETE ORDINARY
chris8535@reddit
Crossfire went on to inspire almost all of Mercedes modern design language. I think it was a really good design for the era and has an incredible legacy.
Hustletron@reddit
You’re right and I hate that fact.
Better than the blobs they have now, tbh.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Wow yeah, you're not kidding.
LC-Dookmarriot@reddit
5th Element car
msennaGT@reddit
Cool to see Jaguar bringing back art deco style. Now the new logo does make sense
six_six@reddit
New car announcement
looks inside
SUV
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
Oh know.
TheCanadianShield99@reddit
What the fuckity fuck fuck is that? Looks like a bad Dyson design
SoftTouch_Re@reddit
They really wanna kill Jaguar
Dopplegangr1@reddit
Is it a grille? A vaccum? AC unit? What are they trying to sell me. Looks like 1980s CGI
DudeLikeYeah@reddit
People making assumptions off a teaser.
wimpires@reddit
And assumptions of a concept car too
aheartworthbreaking@reddit
Knowing Jag, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was the real thing
UXyes@reddit
Literally what the teaser is for
MegaCockInhaler@reddit
Judging by their new marketing, their target market for their new cars will be weird people. Cause nobody except weird people dress like that
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
No rear window like that new Volvo and an a/c vent cover for the bumper. Nice
terrytek@reddit
that looks beyond dystopian i don’t think this is gonna save jaguar for sure
Recoil42@reddit
What's weird is it still has a cut-out for the rear window. It isn't just a body panel thing either — there are no seams. Just a cut-out. That along with the too-sharp body panel crease has me unconvinced this is a production-intent design. This seems more like concept art someone was throwing around at the rebranding table.
DaytonaRS5@reddit
If a Chrysler Crossfire and an ED-209 from Robocop had a baby.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Hah, you pretty much nailed it.
DaytonaRS5@reddit
I had a go with ChatGPT to make it how I think they should have designed it: https://imgur.com/a/ZtBst1f
GoldWhale@reddit (OP)
Oh yuck.
shrekwithhisearsdown@reddit
so brave
https://youtu.be/rLtFIrqhfng?si=sLWPrhUnJHI0B4MW
shrekwithhisearsdown@reddit
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iCjHVhMKxuKF2ScG/?mibextid=WC7FNe
Thejeepwrangler@reddit
This is either gonna be really good or really bad. A true nail biter.
Gujarat4ever@reddit
It's gonna be really bad.
vegt121@reddit
I don't know man. Rectangles and sharp edges? I thought Jags were always about elegant curves.
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
Give it a massive grille and it'll sell in China regardless.
f8Negative@reddit
So some ugly trash from iRobot
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
I’m just happy Jaguar is so inclusive that they hired blind designers
furrynoy96@reddit
Looks hideous so far
qwerty9765767689@reddit
I’m very concerned for Jaguar
JBoy9028@reddit
Guess we'll find out what fashion cars look like.
I thought that those who were in that sphere bought by badge notoriety. What do I know, I don't buy jeans over $30.
Freddy36512@reddit
😬 worse than a cyber truck.
Murram9@reddit
Cyberconditioner > Cyberfridge
Murram9@reddit
First the cyberfridge now the cyberconditioner
Murram9@reddit
First the cyberfridge now the cybairconditioner.
PerryTheRacistPanda@reddit
Even Austin Powers would have trouble getting laid in that sack of crap
wtfthisisntreddit@reddit
Jaguar lost the plot
ArcticBP@reddit
It looks like someone put a portable AC vent on the back of a student’s rendering of a Cybercab…