Congress now wants the US to pressure ICAO to study Age 67. Which could lead to an overhaul of pilot medical requirements.

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

ALPA knows many young pilots will fail medicals and cognitive testing that's why they wanted to keep medical testing unchanged. The 60 plus pilots are not the issue. Ambrosi himself would probably fail it.

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

No more age 67 it's NOW age 70 minimum. Age 67 was the deal on the table last year now it's unlimited or 70 minimum. It's going to happen so get use to it.

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

AGE 67 IS OFF THE TABLE. ITS NOW UNLIMITED OR AGE 70 MINIMUM.

THOSE OPPOSED TO 67 SHOULD HAVE SUPPORTED IT!

RAISING THE AGE IS A DONE DEAL NOW

[-]

Amateur_at_Life88@reddit

Al Haynes was forced to retire (age) shortly after his crash landing in SUX. Would you have wanted a low timer, less experienced pilot up front during that emergency?

[-]

CASAdriver@reddit

Flown with many >60yr old pilots. Most of them fell asleep on a 1.5 hour leg. Most of them also had to ask me, a junior FO, if things they were planning was legal. Some of them got tunnel vision from the FAF inbound, put both hands on the yoke, and forgot the power levels existed, leading to an unstable approach and a horrible go-around (one I had to take controls from).

Cognitive decline is a very real thing, and upping the retirement age isn't a good decision. While yes they have a lot of past experience, what good does that do if they fall asleep and forget how to fly?

[-]

EmotioneelKlootzak@reddit

It should be 56 like it is for ATCs.

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

Sorry but I'm calling BS on your post.

[-]

CASAdriver@reddit

Not a word of what I wrote was a lie. Sorry if you don't believe it, but thats on you

[-]

Ropeswing_Sentience@reddit

As a non pilot, I don't even understand how this is a question...

In every industry, these issues become rampant with the old salts, and we put them at desks to compensate. Why doesn't the aviation industry understand this?

[-]

YouWillHaveThat@reddit

$$$

They understand it. They just don’t care.

[-]

Ropeswing_Sentience@reddit

Reducing liability by moving them to desks would save money though..

What am I missing?

[-]

monsantobreath@reddit

You must be new to aviation. Any risk averse change is written in blood. The margins are so tight on aviation profits I guess that they never learn.

[-]

Ropeswing_Sentience@reddit

So, what, old pilots just haven't killed enough passengers yet?

Again, what am I missing?

[-]

monsantobreath@reddit

Yes literally. Anything to save a buck that hasn't been in the news or an NTSB report will be tolerated or encouraged eventually.

Nearly every watershed improvement in safety came from a big bad death event or very near death event.

[-]

Ropeswing_Sentience@reddit

Do older pilots not have way higher salaries and huge retirement plans?

Why not can them early and bring in cheap newbies?

[-]

Syrdon@reddit

Yes, but only because the supply is low. If you can keep the incoming rate the same and then just keep raising the retirement age then you expand the supply and bargaining power (and thus pay rate increases) drops. Really what it means is that you're trading keeping the expensive ones around for a few extra years for a permanent reduction in pay for everyone who comes in after the change.

[-]

monsantobreath@reddit

Because you need captains and cant just replace them with cheap low hour pilots. There's been periods of pilot shortages that have affected the industry recently and the path to commercial airline pilot is long and expensive. It's not just like becoming a truck driver.

A senior pilot is thousands of hours of flying in big heavy aircraft. You don't create new ones easily.

[-]

Ropeswing_Sentience@reddit

So, if there are a ton of incidents in the next five to ten years where aging pilots cause crashes, and they can't bring in new pilots fast enough, do you think that won't change fast?

[-]

hapybratt@reddit

I think realistically if 1 major incident happens then the US would go back on its decision. The US has an immaculate record for commercial aviation safety at the moment so even a single major event could cause a lot of commotion in the government.

[-]

monsantobreath@reddit

I think it will change if something serious happens but changes that related to money are hard to solve. More pilots is hard when it costs so much. Airlines can't easily fix something like that.

[-]

InsertUsernameInArse@reddit

You're missing replacements. Pilots are thin on the ground.

[-]

Guysmiley777@reddit

No they are not. The "pilot shortage" is a myth and anyone telling you there's a shortage is trying to sell you something.

[-]

joesnopes@reddit

What are you missing? There aren't enough desks.

[-]

YouWillHaveThat@reddit

They do not care about liability. Only money matters and only for this quarter.

The future doesn't matter. The company's reputation doesn't matter. The public's confidence in air travel doesn't matter.

Also, those desk jobs (what desk jobs?) could easily be completed by someone that makes far less than what a veteran pilot does. Especially if you can offshore it.

[-]

Ropeswing_Sentience@reddit

Fun

[-]

joebananas99@reddit

That sounds either like over exaggerated bs or you work for a bottom feeder operator with no standards. This is definitely not the norm in any respectable operator / airline. Neither has this been my own experience of almost 2 decades of flying with many 60+ year old pilots

[-]

120SR@reddit

Flying with them at night is something else. We’ll be 20 degrees off runway heading and they’ll say “runway in sight”….

[-]

ACrucialTech@reddit

And I'm sure you can't tell them anything either in the moment. You have to wait to tell them or let them figure it out on their own. They know. Just can't admit it.

[-]

CptSandbag73@reddit

This why I like flying in the active duty military. There’s hardly anyone in the cockpit over 43ish. So flying with geezers isn’t an issue.

(We have other issues).

[-]

120SR@reddit

Even if they don’t have an ego, it takes dangerously wrong for them to connect the dots and do something about it

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

Because of ALPAs incompetence in restricting the pilot ranks the industry is now moving full speed ahead in SCO. Pilots ( ALPA) inflicted this damage on themselves. Management baited the hook and young inexperience pilots swallowed it hook line and sinker following ALPAs moronic strategic plan. They are strategizing themselves out of jobs.

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

Laws change and new congress supports raising the age. Age 67 is no longer the limit its now 70 or no limit at all. This is what happens when people act stupid and oppose reasonable changes.

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

Age 67 is off the table. 70 or no age limit now. It's coming fast and long overdue.

[-]

dkmy1@reddit

Isn’t this the plane with the slutty eyeliner? 😂

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

ALPA sadely continues to spew total BS regarding raising pilot retirement age. We did this before without issue yet ALPA insists on putting out lies about training, contracts , safety, etc etc. Raising the age would have zero impact on all the above. We call this grasping at straws!

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

Don't need to believe it I witness everyday senior pilots doing their job with ease and confidence all while mentoring the junior folks ( part of the job description).

[-]

Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

Flown with a bunch of guys within 5 years of retirement, and I'd say maybe 1 in 5 are hoping age 67 passes, but a solid 80% or more say something along the lines of "why the fuck would I want to work longer? I want to enjoy my retirement years!"

[-]

SimilarTap1419@reddit

Nobody is forcing anyone to work. It should be individual choice. I suggest you learn what brought on mandatory back in 1960. You might actually change your mind. It was a union guy having his nose so far up managements arss to save a buck and feather his own bed. Zero to do with health or safety.

[-]

Actual-Money7868@reddit

Do you have to retire at a certain age ?

[-]

Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

US law dictates a mandatory retirement at age 65 for commercial airline pilots.

[-]

Actual-Money7868@reddit

Wow that's wild, I would expect cognitive and medicals every 6 months but not that. Although I wouldn't want a 80 year old flying me across the Atlantic so I guess it does make sense at some point.

Personally I'd just go private.

[-]

gumenetka@reddit

Well medical class 1, which is required to fly passengers is yearly, and past the age of 60 is every six months. At least in EASA. Still I think this 67 year thing is dumb.

[-]

subarupilot@reddit

It is every 6 months over 40 for the FAA

[-]

Bradyj23@reddit

I’ve flown with plenty who just plan to go out on disability for their last 2 years and collect a paycheck.

[-]

findquasar@reddit

This is also my experience. Lots of 60+ “have a doctor who can write them a letter,” and so on.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

Abolishing DEI hiring practices should take priority.

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

Tell us which specific problem has been caused by which specific practice.

Tell us which specific groups you want to see hired less.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

Because it's a racist initiative. People should be hired on merit and ability without special treatment or preference.

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

I asked you to be specific.

When all you offer is vague generalizations that cannot be proven or disproven, we’re all just going to assume you made the whole thing up.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

I said DEI is a discriminatory, backwards and racist initiative. In any country it's attempted. You disagree? Tell me why.

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

I asked you to be specific.

Against whom is it racist? In what specific ways?

When all you offer is vague generalizations that cannot be proven or disproven, we’re all just going to assume you made the whole thing up.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

No. Explain to me why DEI is good.

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

The fact that you keep ducking the question convinces me you have no idea what DEI is, and you definitely don’t know why you don’t like it.

I think Fox News told you it’s bad, and you made that your whole personality without ever spending thirty seconds thinking about it.

This should have been a really simple question, instead you’re frantically trying to get out of answering it because you honestly don’t even know what you’re mad about.

All you had to do was tell us which specific things you don’t like, and why you want them to be illegal.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

I told you. I said DEl is a discriminatory, backwards and racist initiative. In any country it's attempted it fails and all it does is breed resentment, unearned privileges and appointment based on anything but merit. Forcing inclusion by exclusion of others is in itself anti inclusive. If you want to put up a counter argument then you're welcome to, otherwise we can just agree that I'm correct.

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

You’re still ducking.

Specifically HOW is it racist?

Specifically WHO does it discriminate against?

Specifically WHAT should be illegal?

We both know why you’re refusing to answer these questions.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

Discriminating against white people is racist. Giving preferential treatment to one group of people over another that isn't directly tied to their experience, ability to do the job or other credentials is unfair. DEI should be illegal. You sound like someone who has benefitted from DEI and is ashamed, or you're just virtue signalling to get a pat on the back. Either way, you're an egotistical clown.

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

Hey, at least you summoned up the courage to give half an answer. Well, more like a quarter.

You still haven’t told us a single specific thing about WHAT specific thing is unfair, which continues to confirm my theory that you don’t actually know what DEI actually is or what specifically you want to change.

You continue to sound like you’re just blindly angry about any system in which white people don’t automatically come first.

You’ve started attempting insults and projection. It’s okay if we need to take a quick break and wait until you’re not so irrational about this.

[-]

gibslow@reddit

I have explained it to you, I can't understand it for you. If you believe in segregation and Division, Exclusion and Isolation that's your perogative. You've done well trying to be combative, a little heavy on the sarcasm and projection though, but unfortunately my little marxist friend, I have a plane to fly. Toodle pip!

[-]

jello_sweaters@reddit

Look how many buzzwords you had to cram in, to deflect away from actually defending your argument. I’m surprised you were too scared to just own it and call me a race traitor.

The thing I love about frightened old white relics like you is how you manage to convince yourselves you’re not losing this fight every day forever.

I get it, it must be terrifying to watch yourselves lose the decades of advantage you had for absolutely no reason, and actually having to watch those people get the things you always assumed were yours by default.

Maybe you’ll get lucky and die before you have to watch society leave your mindset in the waste basket of history where it belongs.

It’s been fun! Try your hardest not to say the quiet part loud, you know that goes badly for you!

[-]

TheBadgersWake@reddit

Aww whats the matter? Did you run out of pregnant women to punch in the stomach?

[-]

gibslow@reddit

Why would I punch a pregnant woman in the stomach? I'm pro life. Weird comment.

[-]

Genetics@reddit

You’ve never heard that it’s the pro-lifer’s preferred abortion method?

[-]

MortonRalph@reddit

I thought it was being pushed down a flight of stairs?

[-]

gibslow@reddit

Think you've confused me with someone else.

[-]

TheBadgersWake@reddit

Why are you so angry at the world? Who hurt you?

[-]

gibslow@reddit

Lmao

[-]

Velocoraptor369@reddit

Boomers strike again. Pilots are exposed to high levels of radiation when they fly. Not sure letting jack fly two more years because his third wife wants a divorce is in the best interests of the flying public. Epidemiological studies have shown that aircrew have higher rates of specific cancers than the general population. Some studies suggest that pilots and flight crew have a higher risk of melanoma due to exposure to UV and cosmic radiation. However, a causal link between cosmic radiation exposure and cancer has not been established.

[-]

lordtema@reddit

If Jack wants to fly for 2 more years, Jack can go apply at a part 135 (or a Part 91) then he can fly for just about as long as his medical holds!

[-]

Velocoraptor369@reddit

But the pay and prestige are not there.

[-]

IndustryMental793@reddit

What are part 135 or 91?

[-]

CrashSlow@reddit

Biz jets, but it's harder work. You have to touch bags, interact with refuelers and ramp staff. Airline pilots are extremely coddled.

[-]

IndustryMental793@reddit

Thanks.

[-]

tx_navy@reddit

Isn't kinda ironic seeing how most of congress is pushing over 65?

[-]

SubarcticFarmer@reddit

This headline is incrediby misleading. It's the same group from last year and it wasn't "one vote"

[-]

No-Background-3287@reddit (OP)

It was actually exactly 1 vote.

“The Senate Commerce Committee voted 14-13 to reject the retirement age hike after the FAA said earlier this week it would prefer additional research was conducted before Congress raised the age.”

sauce

[-]

SubarcticFarmer@reddit

That doesn't mean it would have happened, just that it would have advanced.

[-]

deadgirlrevvy@reddit

Senior citizens can barely drive a goddamned car and now they want them flying airliners?? Are you fucking kidding me?

[-]

toboche@reddit

I wonder what the congress would say about the age of some politicians, e.g. presidents 🤔

[-]

AshMain_Beach@reddit

So make it even harder for low hour pilots

[-]

skapuntz@reddit

So the industry wants to reduce number of pilots on the flight deck at at the same time increase retirement age. Makes so much sense…. My god, what a bunch of idiots we have going around.

Just increase the price of tickets to regulate demand. Flying honestly is too cheap! Demand keeps increasing so much because there is a race to see who sells cheaper tickets it’s unbelievable.

[-]

CptSandbag73@reddit

Make it like the ~~good~~ old regulated days where the tickets were exorbitant, every seat was first class, and the FAs couldn’t be above 30, married, or pregnant. /s

[-]

skapuntz@reddit

Nice useless and ridiculous comment 👌 meanwhile I can do a 3 hour flight half price cheaper than travelling by car 3 hours in my country’s highway or direct train to a destination about 300km from me. That’s the best!

[-]

Usernamenotta@reddit

Congress can press itself to fuck off. If they want to ruin the world, they can just invade the countries, no need to bother ICAO

[-]

erhue@reddit

yesss greed strikes again! Fucking boomers please die already

[-]

PussyDeconstructor@reddit

US has notified the most differences from ICAO sarp's.

Why cant they just do their own thing and leave the rest of us alone ?

[-]

Wingnut150@reddit

I thought we already killed this halfassed idea.

[-]

fedeger@reddit

Can you think of the poor airline’s shareholders? With the pilot shortage they couldn’t buy a new yacht. Do you know how terrible that is? They had to use the same model two years in a row, everybody made fun of them at the club!

[-]

hitojo@reddit

Those senators are just trying to take the pennywise, pound foolish approach to fixing the pilot shortage. Wouldn’t expect anything different from them at this point, spoiled children.

[-]

Guysmiley777@reddit

There is no pilot shortage. Anyone telling you that is selling you something.

[-]

hitojo@reddit

That is highly possible, now I have more reading to do. Thank you 👍🏾

[-]

WoozyWinx@reddit

What shortage? We have furloughs happening. Also, most airlines have reduced hiring substantially!

The shortage has been over for a while!

[-]

chillflyer@reddit

I retired last year from a major. Nfw, would I want to stick around til 67. Sticking around til 65 was bad enough.

[-]

TimeSpacePilot@reddit

If they force ATC guys to retire at 56 maybe they should change it to 56 for pilots. I’ve seen cognitive decline in pilots before 50, let’s make things that much safer.

How about it guys? It’s all about maximizing safety, right? 😀

[-]

Twa747@reddit

I wonder how many folk get caught in the net of cognitive tests to allow a very small % of pilots to go to 67.

I’d honestly say it would be a wash. More pilots would medical out before 65 as a result of expanded testing than pilots going to 67. But you know they’ve goto be wronged for that thing that happened millions of dollars ago.

I flew with the cuntiest of crusty fucks the other month. I had a 30 hour overnight and he joined me for the o’fuck is it early back to the hub go home day. ….0345 in the god damn fucking van this dude is going off about how he was furloughed and how someone he one time shared a hooker with committed suicide as a result of the furlough, continuing on to the executives at the airline who not only ordered the furlough but the gang bang on his mom.

By 0500 I was well over his stories and asked for FO quiet time….. I’m an upity millennial FO ( I’m 40 and won’t even get to sniff the left seat of a wide body before I retire, which I’m fine with)

One turn, unstable approach and a go around later and pulling into the gate dude tells me he’s going to go sit on a widebody for 7 years and to enjoy my career because it’s so much better than his………. I’m most of the time pretty calm cool and collected and have no problem eating shit for how much they pay me to sit in a little air conditioned room and go vroom vroom but this mother fucker awakened something deep within me……..

Once the brake was set checklist complete he gave me a debrief. Fine it’s in the book and surprisingly he was actually pleased with my performance…….. I played good boy……

I had gave him a debrief of a fucking lifetime, I was so god damn pissed, being called a typical millennial and him being on the left seat of something heavy for 7 years and then the comment of my career is better and starting my day with people hanging themselves. Fuck that guy

If you read this go fuck your self your widebody crews will hate your fucking ass

Something something Wendy’s drive through dumpster goto SOAR and touch grass

TLDR: 67 will knock out more folks than it keeps in Then a story

[-]