Can my employer stop me from using my own car for college day?
Posted by Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 94 comments
[removed]
Posted by Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 94 comments
[removed]
chaingaurd@reddit
I'm curious what the requirements for whatever this apprenticeship is in are. Seems that zero critical thinking and lack of any confidence got them in. Or it's all BS cos if your kid needs an A&E visit what your boss thinks wouldn't even enter your mind.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
If my son needed to go to A&E I’d take him regardless it’s just the point of getting into trouble over it but I’m not going to not take my son somewhere in an emergency
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
If you are a parent you need to get your affairs in order man. If you lose your license for being uninsured you are gonna be no use to your kid. Buy a phone cradle and a charger lead and stop using ADHD as an excuse.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
I can take constructive criticism but I’m really not using ADHD as an excuse imagine you had an autistic kid and you said the same thing to him/her because they couldn’t speak properly? It isn’t very nice
TremendousCustard@reddit
I don't give a damn if you can take constructive criticism or not. You're a fucking disgrace who needs to get their act together.
You know what isn't very nice? Being first on the scene of a car crash and attempting to distract a 4 year old, screaming and beyond consolation because their 6 year old sister is dead next to them in such a mangled state that you will NEVER stop seeing in your mind's eye. The cause? A speeding driver (doing approx 10mph over the speed limit) losing control.
You want to do that to someone else's kid? Imagine it's yours first.
Oh, I have Autism and ADHD too. Amazingly, I don't speed, I use voice directions from my phone if I can't find places and wouldn't dream of handling my phone while driving, especially when a mount and a cable can be picked up for less than a tenner.
It can be done. Stop using neurodiversity as an excuse to be a cunt.
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
Operating a vehicle is different to being able to speak properly. You have admitted several things that are dangerous and illegal, driving without insurance, speeding, using a phone whilst driving, and you have justified it by saying you have ADHD. Plenty of people have ADHD and manage to drive safely and legally.
mr-seamus@reddit
It is worrying you need to use Waze to be able to drive safely (the irony).
BriefAmphibian7925@reddit
Extra lessons probably won't help here - it's a judgement issue.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Trust me I know how to drive I use Waze for speed cameras, police being hidden up, accident alerts etc
mr-seamus@reddit
Evidently you don't and going off your replies on here you're extremely immature.
alltorque1982@reddit
Source : trust me
Vectis01983@reddit
'I’ve had to hold my phone while driving, which is unsafe and makes me uncomfortable'
Anything else is irrelevant. You're breaking the law, plus it's dangerous to you and, more importantly I feel, to other road users.
And, all because you can't or won't use a different cable to connect your phone. They are literally a couple of pounds, go and buy one.
Plus, you really need a GPS giving you directions for a journey you make EVERY WEEK? And, you have to look at those maps on your phone? For goodness sake, any decent app, even Google Maps, will SPEAK the directions to you even if you don't know where you're going (but you're doing the same journey EVERY week).
Sometimes, you just have to wonder about people.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Everyone breaks the law one way or another I didn’t do it for the sake of doing it but looking back I should’ve just turned the sound alerts on but for some reason I didn’t think
I need to use a navigation app as what if a road is closed or there’s traffic ahead and it could redirect me or maybe there’s a cheeky speed camera can parked up waiting I’ll know before I get near it
BriefAmphibian7925@reddit
If it's a planned diversion, follow the signs. If it's unplanned pull over and work out a new route (or, in many cases, just follow everyone else who are navigating around the same obstruction).
That's a nice feature but it's not essential. It certainly doesn't justify the risk of holding a phone while driving.
If you're not attentive enough to spot mobile speed cameras and the places they might be stationed then you should probably just drive within the speed limit.
Comfortable--Box@reddit
Yes
When you say the car is insured, I'm assuming you only mean SDP+C? Commuting generally only covers to your usual place of work as outlined in your job contract. It does not cover work travel to other locations, the only exception being if you have business travel included on your insurance.
If you have a crash on the way to college, you won't be insured, and the company would be liable to pay. Which is why they force you to drive their car, but that will only be insured for business travel, not SDP which is why you can't use it in your own downtime.
I have been in your position as I work, they sent me to uni to do a course. We were forced to use company car or get a hire car to travel to it. If we wanted to use our own cars we had to send work the insurance certificate to prove we were insured for business travel.
Only option I see for you is returning to work after your course to collect your own car.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
I know this is bad but I’m only insured for SDP as getting insured for commuting made my insurance way too high
alltorque1982@reddit
Then you're driving illegally every time you go to work. Good luck explaining that when you get checked after being pulled over for using your phone.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
My car is straight piped I’ve never been pulled over for it police don’t care
BriefAmphibian7925@reddit
Indecision is a symptom of ADHD but I don't think just plain making terrible life decisions is. You need to grow up and sort yourself out, before you hurt people or get yourself in trouble.
ShineAtom@reddit
Your insurance company will if they find out if, for instance, the police do pull you over for an offence or if you are involved in an accident whether or not it is your fault. Get legal for goodness sake. It is the responsible thing to do especially as you are now a father!
Comfortable--Box@reddit
Then tbh I think you should keep quiet and be thankful your company is letting you drive a car which is actually properly insured. I think they would go ballistic if they found out you didn't even have commuting on your insurance.
Also get commuting added to your insurance as soon as you can afford it. If you crashed on the way to work, they won't pay out. If you can't afford to add commuting to your insurance, I don't think you could afford to buy, tax and insure a whole new car, so you would be royally screwed; not worth it when you have a kid to think of. Get a second job, or make financial compromises to get yourself properly insured.
BriefAmphibian7925@reddit
Why do they want you to use the company car to travel to college? What did they say when you asked them?
Adapters are small and inexpensive. Why wouldn't you leave the cable for your own car in your own car all the time and just carry the other one? Or an adapter?
It's also likely illegal. But why would the type of USB connection affect how the phone is held? The USB port shouldn't be supporting the phone.
I think you first need to find out why they even care. They might not be able to force you, technically, but they might be able to fire you anyway if you've been there less than two years.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
They want me to use the company car for “insurance purposes” which makes sense from what people have already said below
Adapters are no good for me I have ADHD and lose everything I also forget where I put stuff so because of this I’ve lost multiple chargers using the company car to go to college
Without the right USB cable is unable to connect my phone to the cars built in screen to use maps so I was forced to hold my phone as there was no holder around and nowhere to prop it up against
BriefAmphibian7925@reddit
An alternative (though likely one which would cost you money) would be to insure your own car for business use - you'd need to check if your employer would accept this before going ahead with it.
Otherwise, as another commenter said, I'd probably look to not keep the company car overnight and just commute via your main place of employment.
Then you need to come up with some sort of system or coping strategy for this (irrespective of this current issue). (Also, if you use an adapter in your own car rather than the company car, presumably you wouldn't lose it as easily?) You can't be completely unable otherwise you'd be losing your phone too and unable to do an apprenticeship. I'm not expert on this but just some ideas that come to mind:
If you're not losing the cables, maybe get a cable with built-in or attached adapters, eg; https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerLine-Lightning-Samsung-Smartphones/dp/B07215381G/
Otherwise attach it to something you won't forget.
Use checklists (requires you to establish a habit of using a checklist at certain points, but once you've done that you can more easily add/remove things as appropriate).
Get a phone that lasts longer between charges. Or get a phone case that contains a powerbank, such as the ones here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers-Mobile-Phone-Battery-Charger-Cases/zgbs/electronics/7342281031
(Amazon links are just for illustration - I'm not recommending any specific product).
Ok-Train5382@reddit
You really need to sort yourself out. “Sorry I have adhd” isn’t a get out of jail free card if you get caught using your phone whilst driving or hit someone.
You’ve got a kid but seem to still be a kid
heywhatwait@reddit
You may want to clarify this with the company accountant/payroll person, but you may be liable for company car tax if you use the company car to go to and from your home. To avoid that, you should drive your personal car to your place of work, then take the company car to college, then reverse that when returning from college. That’s the argument I would use, anyway. I’m amazed that the company car doesn’t have Car Play/Android Auto. The adapters cost next to nothing, and they’d come in handy at other times.
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
The USB and phone stuff in your post is irrelevant. Take responsibility for your driving. Don't hold your phone and use your eyes to determine speed limits. If you are being paid to attend college (including for the commute) then you would need business insurance for your own car. That's why they want you to use the company car, ie going to college is part of your work duties. You should only be using the company car for work duties.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
The USB and phone stuff isn’t irrelevant as I need it to be able to use Waze to keep an eye out for speed cameras, accidents up ahead and navigation.. as kindly as possible before you say you shouldn’t speed then everyone does I don’t go ridiculously over the limit but normal by 10
Kolo_ToureHH@reddit
If "everyone" jumped off a cliff, would you jump off a cliff?
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
And the main thing is the vast majority do not jump off the cliff, only the assholes do.
Forever_a_Kumquat@reddit
Use your eyes for speed cameras FFS. Or just don't speed.. how about that?
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
No thanks I’ll drive how I want but if you want to go 20 mph in a 20 then you can
wordsfromlee@reddit
I’m sure your attitude will change after you’ve killed someone with your car.
alltorque1982@reddit
OP is a fucking moron or troll. Admits to speeding, using phone while driving, doesn't have correct insurance, has modified car, and then has the audacity to ask people why his employer is being 'unreasonable '. I hope OP loses their job or licence. They shouldn't be on the road.
Forever_a_Kumquat@reddit
I will.. cos I'm not a prick.
Cam2910@reddit
Stop admitting to speeding, better yet, stop doing it.
10 miles over the limit IS ridiculously over the limit.
"But officer/judge, you can't take my licence. I know I was speeding but everyone does it" isn't going to work.
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
I don't speed. I use the speed limiter function in the car and follow the signs on the road. If you need to use your phone get the right lead with the money you save on fuel that your employer provides
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Thanks
cougieuk@reddit
Have they said why you need to use a company car?
Your USB and phone use is your issue that you can fix with adaptors and a phone cradle.
Holding the phone is dangerous and 6 points and a £200 fine.
Nobody's going to have an issue should you need to take a baby to a&e.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Adapters and a cradle is no use as I have ADHD I lose everything and forget where I put stuff and it gives unnecessary stress I know it seems dramatic
I know you can get in trouble for holding your phone but without navigation I don’t know where to go so it’s either I risk it or I just guess and drive around for however long until I somehow make it home
cougieuk@reddit
You shouldn't be driving then. I don't want you sharing the roads with vulnerable road users.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Trust me I’m a better driver than most
cougieuk@reddit
I don't think that's going to help you avoid points. If anyone films you on your phone they can just send it in and that's your insurance buggered.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Well unlike most people I don’t do the speed limit everywhere I go so I need apps to alert me as a speed camera is coming up I’ve never crashed my car
SpudFire@reddit
"I'm a better driver than most"
"I break the speed limit regularly so need an app to tell me when I need to slow down a bit to avoid getting points on my licence. But it's OK because I haven't had a crash yet"
cougieuk@reddit
Speeding and holding your phone? Traffic policeman's delight.
What makes you so special that rules don't apply to you ?
If you lost your licence how would that affect your job ?
Breakwaterbot@reddit
In the nicest way possible, I think you need to grow up a bit. You also rely far too much on technology. What would you do if you were at college one day and your phone broke? You need to learn the route to and from college.
You say the manual thing is a problem. I assume you have a manual licence and did your test I'm one so that shouldn't be an issue.
To me, you just sound a bit lazy and entitled. You're being given a company vehicle to use for your college days which means you're saving money on fuel and wear and tear to your own car. I'd have loved to have been given a company car when I was doing my apprenticeship.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
You might be right it’s good to see your point of view on the situation and you have a good point but I’ve grown up with technology and I’d be so lost without it
I passed in a manual and had a manual car for a year before I got my current car which I’ve had for 4 years.. I suppose it just comes down to the fact of laziness like you say but then again going from automatic to a manual is a nightmare the clutch aches my leg and then I occasionally stall
True-Abalone-3380@reddit
Is your car insured for business use, as it's quite possible driving to this course could be classed as that.
I suggest you don't do that and rely on your eyes and the street signs. If the app is wrong, you will still get prosecuted.
You will get prosecuted if and when you get caught.
Buy a compatible charging lead and learn to use their car, it'll be simpler all round and also give you more experience driving.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
For my job I’m required to drive all types of cars around the workshop so I drive anything from 2010 corsas to brand new range rovers so I feel like I’m experienced enough with driving I just don’t feel comfortable driving their cars
I use Waze because unfortunately just like most people I tend to go over the speed limit and when I’m about to pass a speed camera Waze alerts me so I can slow down in time
My car isn’t insured for business use it isn’t even insured to commute to work but that made my insurance way too expensive
Kolo_ToureHH@reddit
There's a very, very simple solution to your problem here...
Don't break the speed limit and you'll never have to worry about being caught by speed cameras.
ShineAtom@reddit
You say your job pays "too good to quit". If, however, you have an accident - whether or not your fault - whilst commuting then you will find out that the penalty for this (from your insurance company at least) is going to be vastly higher than than the potential loss of your job.
You need to shop around and get the best rate for insurance that includes commuting if not business use. It might be that your job as stated on the form leads to a higher rate and/or it might be that your car is going to be expensive to insure in any case. If you don't get proper cover, then you may end up with penalty points if you are in an accident/caught speeding/holding a phone whilst driving etc. This may cause problems with your work. Think of the potential consequences and get propery covered. Plus get a cable to use with your phone in your company car or any other car you drive for them. They aren't exactly expensive. Penalty points, however, are.
True-Abalone-3380@reddit
Perhaps you're in the wrong job and should resign and find something more suitable.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
It pays too good to quit unfortunately
Cam2910@reddit
Your insurance will get a whole lot higher when you get points for speeding and holding your phone.
You'll struggle to ever get insurance again if you have an accident and they decide to cancel your cover because you don't have commuting on there.
To answer your actual question, they probably can't force you, but they can ask you to prove you have the correct insurance, so you might not want to rock the boat too much. Can't you just go and collect your car after college instead of keeping it overnight?
lysergic101@reddit
On the other hand, where do the insurance believe your car is kept overnight?
Think-Committee-4394@reddit
I would think it very unlikely that travel to Colledge is considered-business travel- requiring business insurance
Typically business insurance is required when the vehicle is used to visit customers/suppliers, deliver a service (repair guy) or goods!
Bet the company car is tracked though!
Ask the boss WHY? Request an explanation as not having your own vehicle is restrictive overnight, if you need to shop, visit someone, or just want to go the hell out!
They may feel they are ‘helping you out’ with fuel costs for Colledge, rather than giving you a problem?
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Thank you
huskydaisy@reddit
I would suggest never mentioning the crime that you've been committing to anyone ever again, especially not your apprenticeship provider.
The other stuff you're worried about is pretty legitimate though, it's worth a conversation with the boss to figure out why these are their expectations and whether any adjustments can be made considering your situation.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
I know the whole phone situation is illegal but my logic was that’s the best thing to do as long as I keep it low whilst driving it was either that or I would’ve had to drive around trying to guess where to go
OccidentalTouriste@reddit
Surely you are doing the same journey each week between work and college. Why are you worried about getting lost?
Jee187@reddit
Switch on the turn-by-turn voice and put it on the seat next to you. Ok, you still can't actually see the map but I assume you'd be capable of following directions from a passenger?
At the end of the day you can't drive around holding your phone, you will get spotted eventually and it's not worth the points. If you magically lose every other cable and phone holder you've ever brought into that car then the only remaining option that won't get you either a shit load of points or arrested for causing death by dangerous driving is just listen to what your sat nav says.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
I’ll deffo do that in future it seems like the best option I don’t know why I didn’t think to do that
Hulkenberk@reddit
The logical thing to do is to pull over, switch the engine off, then do what you need to do with your phone. The offence (using a phone while driving) is committed if you touch your phone for any reason while you're in charge of it and if you're seen, pulled over and whatnot you don't have a reasonable excuse at all and that's a minimum of 6 points and a £200 fine now, if you're in your first 2 years of passing your test, your licence likely revoked too.
Get a phone holder/mount and leave it alone once your destination is programmed in before you leave.
Also, your insurance will not be valid if you're driving to/from work without the adequate cover (Social, domestic and pleasure + commuting at a minimum). If you have an accident (regardless of fault) without it, you are likely committing the offence of driving without valid insurance and insurance fraud, so you may lose your licence and very likely, your job.
I have ADHD too (inattentive-type) but I'm hyper vigilant when it comes to stuff when driving, pre-plan and leave nothing to chance, utilise your phones' voice assistant if it has one (most phones do) to make changes to your journey if necessary.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
That’s actually a very good point to use the voiced directions thing for some reason I forgot that existed or maybe I’m just so used to having it set to alerts only.. I’ll do that in future thank you
TallTangerine3873@reddit
Just tell your employer you consistently break the speed limit and hold your phone whilst driving. They won’t want you using their company car. Problem solved.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Like you’ve never broken the speed limit in your life
Gold-Cartographer-66@reddit
Did you learn and pass your test driving and automatic? Also, all they speed camera stuff on your phone, why do you need them unless you know you'll be speeding and not wanting caught or unable to actually see the speed limit signs.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
Being completely honest yes I passed in manual but hate manual and yes I speed so I need Waze to check for cameras i personally think it’s unrealistic to go 70, people in the first lane go 50, second lane is like 60 and the third lane is 80 - 90 so trying to do 70 is difficult
Jee187@reddit
Left lane is usually about 60 as HGVs are limited to 60 and obviously sit in that lane most of the time. The other two are both overtaking lanes and should be used as such.
If you've got cruise control, just set it to 70 and overtake as needed. You don't need to keep an eye out for traps and cameras if you're not speeding.
You also don't need waze to tell you what the speed limit is, the infrastructure on the road will tell you that. Even a halfway decent driver should be keeping an eye out for changes in the speed limit, even ones that speed everywhere and use weak excuses for it.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
I’ll keep using Waze as it’s the best option for me thanks for your input though
Jee187@reddit
What does your insurance for your regular car cover? If commuting is covered then not really sure what your employer is getting in a twist over.
Rather than trying to do this awkward juggle with the company car, ask them if they'd be happy with you upgrading your regular car insurance to cover you business use and just using your car again.
My employer does this and covers the extra cost of the insurance.
Hulkenberk@reddit
It's strange because they don't have commuting on their insurance so they shouldn't even be driving to work in the first place. However their Social domestic & pleasure policy does cover them for driving to college as its not commuting to a place of work. The irony.
tmstms@reddit
If the car has no compatible USB socket, you can just buy an adapter that plugs into the cigarette lighter slot.
It is actually likely you are NOT insured to drive your own car for work, but just for leisure.
Simple-Courage-3948@reddit
He's driving the car to attend college, that's a materially different thing to using the car for work. For example if the company had not issued him with a car at all, then he'd have no choice (except the bus) than to use his personal car.
huskydaisy@reddit
Apprenticeships are usually considered to be "work" (the whole point being learning while working) but that's something that OP could check with his insurance provider if the definition was in question.
Simple-Courage-3948@reddit
Yes, but regular car insurance will cover trips to work and college since this is probably the main thing that people use their cars for. A work trip would be something like visiting customers or suppliers during the work day and then returning to work, since that has a different risk profile to the insurers.
huskydaisy@reddit
I'm not sure what you mean by regular car insurance but the two most common types of coverage are:
SDP which would not cover any travel to work, and;
SDP+C which would cover travel to work but only to your main (singular) place of work
Simple-Courage-3948@reddit
I'd be astonished if his policy did not cover trips to college, either way his employer doesn't have any need to care about this since they aren't responsible for insuring his personal vehicle.
huskydaisy@reddit
I don't know why - it's been the same set up for decades and it's up to the policy holder to make sure they have the correct coverage.
They are responsible for him on company time. If it turns out he was driving his own car while uninsured for a company purpose then they will be liable, which is why they would care.
Simple-Courage-3948@reddit
He's commuting to college, that's not the same thing as driving for a company purpose. It would be like if you drove to work uninsured, it's not your employers responsibility because they don't even know the status of your personal insurance usually. It's probably only a minority of apprentices that are given a separate company vehicle in the first place.
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
College is part of his work duties as an apprentice. He's paid to do it.
huskydaisy@reddit
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
They have confirmed their policy does not include commute or business usage.
Comfortable--Box@reddit
Yep this. I did a course with my work at a uni and we had to use company cars or hire cars, they wouldn't let us use our own car. If you wanted to use your own car, you had to prove it was covered for business travel.
UnknownTerrorUK@reddit
Insurance usually only covers you from travelling to and from a single place of work. As long as he's not going from home to college then to work and vice versa and in whatever combination and only straight to collegeor work from home and back it will be fine.
Basic-Pangolin553@reddit
College is part of their duties as an apprentice so they have to either claim travel expense or be provided with a car. His own insurance would likely exceed the allowance for travel expenses per mile before fuel and wear and tear are calculated.
wardyms@reddit
Are they paying for your apprenticeship? I’m unsure why they dictating what car you use and when.
Middle-Magazine-8028@reddit (OP)
The apprenticeship is paid by the government and my employer but I’m not sure what percentage is paid by who etc
yeahfuckingrightm8@reddit
Needing to use a company car for things like this is a pretty standard thing in my experience. I also didn't like it when I first started. While you're on company business, the company is responsible for you, so they need to make sure the car is well maintained etc. As well as making sure you're sufficiently covered insurance wise. The company insurance always covers some private use and emergencies for situations like you describe
If you don't feel comfortable with manual, you can always say you need an automatic
Bgtobgfu@reddit
I think like some people are saying, it might be an insurance issue where college is technically part of your apprenticeship (work) and your employer wants you to use your work vehicle.
Why don’t you just return the car on Wednesday evening and drive home in your own car? Trent it like your normal commute.
Simple-Courage-3948@reddit
Please don't mess on with your phone while driving, if you need directions then pull over and figure out where you need to go. You can invest in a second cable or an adapter to solve the USB issue.
I have no idea why your employer would care which car you use to get to college, are you attending college for the full day, or you are attending work afterwards and they want the car returned there for some reason?
I'd be amazed if your employer had an issue with you taking the company car to A&E in a genuine emergency. Maybe they've had issues with people taking the piss with company cars in the past and it's a trust issue?
Simple-Courage-3948@reddit
Please don't mess on with your phone while driving, if you need directions then pull over and figure out where you need to go. You can invest in a second cable or an adapter to solve the USB issue.
I have no idea why your employer would care which car you use to get to college, are you attending college for the full day, or you are attending work afterwards and they want the car returned there for some reason?
I'd be amazed if your employer had an issue with you taking the company car to A&E in a genuine emergency. Maybe they've had issues with people taking the piss with company cars in the past and it's a trust issue?
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