Are flash bangs legal in the U.S. for civilians (Missouri)?
Posted by Pea-and-Pen@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 95 comments
My husband, who is not the prepper in the family, asked last night if I knew if flash bangs were legal for civilians to purchase. I looked online but most of what I found didn’t look reliable or was sketchy looking. I don’t think we will ever need flash bangs but, as a general rule, I try to encourage any questions or interest that he shows. If he’s interested in something new then I’m all for it. A few flash bangs won’t hurt anything if it will keep him thinking along the lines of preparedness or SHTF.
If they are legal to purchase, does anyone have a recommended place to buy from?
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit
Trying to figure out a defensive use case for a flash bang. I can't. These are typically used offensively when performing an assault against a home or other location. As a prepper, why would you be assaulting anyone? I'm not interested in doing home invasions... that is why I prep.
Old_Pessimist@reddit
Less lethal option for the "defend" part of the 5D's. Consider the deterrent effect of breaking into a house, then feeling like your head was used as the clapper for a particularly large church bell.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit
It's not obvious to me why I would want to employ non-lethal countermeasures when the lives and safety of myself and my family are at risk. If the use of deadly force is authorized (and in most states it would be), then use it.
Old_Pessimist@reddit
1) Bullets penetrate drywall 2) The subsequent lawsuit from the relatives of the crackhead you just dirtnapped. You went out of your way to avoid bloodshed.
Wasteland-Scum@reddit
Shit_On_Your_Parade@reddit
This arrogance and disapproving attitude is annoying.
“I can’t see a reason this would be useful, so I’m going to question your intentions.”
snuffy_bodacious@reddit
I came here to say this, and your comment is undervalued.
The only people who have any use for flash bangs are cops and bad guys. And I say this as one who is extremely pro-2A.
PomegranateKey5939@reddit
This is bullshit I should be able to own a flashbang, you don’t sound very pro 2A.
Valuable_Option7843@reddit
That’s not what he said. Just said they weren’t useful for other groups
PomegranateKey5939@reddit
Definitely what he implied. “The only use for flashbangs is cops and bad guys” 🤣. That’s just false anyway.
Valuable_Option7843@reddit
I would view it more as helpful, prepping related advice to give people a realistic idea for how to invest limited resources for home defense. Setting off a flashbang in your own home is not the move.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit
The implication is that flash bangs are offensive weapons. There are use cases for cops and bad guys to use them. But not really for lawful citizens, especially in their own home.
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't be able to own them.
timcrall@reddit
I'll say it
PomegranateKey5939@reddit
alright then
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
Put yourself in the shoes of a burglar or home invader. If the dude who's house you broke into started tossing M80s at you, let alone flashbangs, would you want to still be in that house?
jtj5002@reddit
No, because the house would be on fire
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
Depends on what is nearby when it goes off but its not like you're throwing a molotov lol just stomp that shit out
jtj5002@reddit
Yes, just stomp out the magnesium and potassium nitrate that just exploded all over the room.
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
We aren't talking about M67s, we're talking shitty airsoft flashbangs
JustADutchRudder@reddit
Throw firework mortars at robbers. Really liven the night up. I used to throw them outta the car window on back country roads and they can get wild at ground level.
gilbert2gilbert@reddit
Oh you're that asshole
JustADutchRudder@reddit
Hey where I used to do it there wasn't many people around since we'd go on the roads with city folk cabins. So at least we thought about not being to loud for the neighbors.
Eredani@reddit
Being on the defensive side of a legit home invasion, and not knowing how many attackers nor how they are armed, I am not yelling warnings, firing warning shots, or trying to "Home Alone" the encounter with gadgets.
Under those conditions, one is entitled to use deadly force.
analogliving71@reddit
they would like it even less when i shot them, if warranted
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
Agreed. Playing devils advocate is all
bes5318@reddit
My bedroom is at the top of a staircase in the corner of my house. If I hear someone kick in my front door, you can bet that I'd rather drop a flashbang down a stairwell rather than wait to meet them face to face. I can still do that if needed, but I don't lose much advantage by signaling that I've got some scary shit waiting for them if they come upstairs.
From the perspective of an intruder, the introduction of sudden explosions at your feet is enough to elevate the risk far above any reward to be gained.
PrepperBoi@reddit
If a dude flash banged me during an attempted home robbery I would nope the fuck out.
Excellent-Tap-539@reddit
If your house was breached by multiple shooters and u had the jump on them pre living spaces is a plausible scenario
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit
Invaders get to pick the time, place and method of attack. It's not clear to me how I would get the jump on them.
yes_hahaha_yesss@reddit
If I put on my LARPer hat and ask "what would Rambo do", it might be useful for disorienting unwanted visitors if you manage to get the jump on them. Like if there's a small group of people with bad intentions in your house or just outside of it, who aren't aware of your presence yet, and you want to get an advantage over them before you start running or shooting. Might be a stupid way to handle that situation though.
Girafferage@reddit
Nope, you can get civilian or training ones, but the bang is much less intense and doesnt produce the PSI change that helps a flashbang disrupt peoples sensory processing. The flash is also much less luminous. Real flashbangs have insane candela - like 100k +
If you really want the civilian ones, IWA makes probably the best option you can get, but again, they aren't really very effective as they dont do the same thing with the intense PSI pressure on the ears and intense light.
chris782@reddit
Sure you can, for $600 +$200 tax stamp you can form 1 this one here and reload it to your hearts desire and it's a legit 180db flash bang. https://azaoinc.com/shop/ols/products/m84az-flash-bang-nfdd
nanneryeeter@reddit
That's hella cool. I'm on a list now for sure but what an interesting website.
redditisfacist3@reddit
We all are my friend
Pork_Chop_Express23@reddit
Aren’t most people on this sub on lists somewhere 😂
chris782@reddit
NFA items are super addicting once you get into them, jsut got into silencers this last year. From my understanding you can make anything on a form 1 except newly manufactured post '86 machine guns and nuclear weapons. I'm saving up for an m203 for my 20" m16a4 grenadier build.
Girafferage@reddit
oof, seems this isnt an option anymore
chris782@reddit
You just have to get in contact with them and join. It's an extra layer of security they do on their side that's not required. Lot's of places do this where you need to be a member of their gun club to purchase from them.
Girafferage@reddit
ah, gotcha. Also how would you reuse it? Seems like they send the materials for a one time use type situation
chris782@reddit
You would acquire the binary components and a new fuse and then assemble them into a destructive device on the day you are going to use it, usually a large charge of flash powder inside of a cardboard tube. Basically a "half-stick" m-80 type firework but it would be legal. The spoon or the body of the flash bang would be engraved with a serial number and your name and satisfy the all the NFA requirements to be a legal destructive device.
Girafferage@reddit
This has been immensely informative. Thanks for the info!
chris782@reddit
My pleasure! It's a fun rabbit hole. This explains destructive devices better. NFA stuff and the different forms and regulations can all be confusing at 1st, just takes some research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9TaVaUP8is&t=162s
Ranchhand44@reddit
Too funny, love their age verification and some of the descriptions “Not for the faint of heart. These rounds need to impact a fairly heavy target to reliably detonate- such as a vehicle, building, Rosie O’Donnell or other sturdy structure. Highly customizable, contact AZAO to discuss options” Fucking hilarious
WildlyWeasel@reddit
A 5.56 pistol with a 5 inch barrel would probably have similar bang, maybe less flash, but gets the wireless hole punch, and is unlikely to burn down a building filled with women and children...
Corey307@reddit
Dragons breath, no one expects you to set your house on fire.
Odd-Afternoon-589@reddit
Hey why stop there? Why not throw on a muzzle break too (a “loudener”)?
Sooo_Dark@reddit
Actual "flashbangs" are very strictly regulated as destructive devices by the BATFE. You cannot legally acquire or possess them as a civilian without a lot of paperwork and you probably won't be approved. There are gimmick alternatives, but they're nothing like the real thing. Not something the average prepper would have much use for, as intended, anyway.
jtj5002@reddit
You can buy civilian/airsoft flashbangs
GreyBeardsStan@reddit
Fireworks are louder and brighter than the civ and airsoft variety
looking4goodti04@reddit
There's a no ATF non Pyro one from pavashotinc.com that's loud.
mysonlikesorange@reddit
This is a terrible idea.
drinkbang@reddit
Flashbangs aren’t as effective as you’re thinking. As someone who has used them and had them deployed at my feet, it’s basically just a loud explosion. If firecrackers are legal where you’re at, you can get a similar effect
Future_Cause4782@reddit
Flashbangs lose their effectiveness if you’re expecting it. Still, it’s not anywhere close to Call of Duty. In a defensive situation I see very limited utility, not to mention the risk of igniting fuel sources on your property while a bad guy is still alive, albeit disoriented.
MrIrrelevantsHypeMan@reddit
I used to throw all kinds of weird shit because it was funny but also to see their reaction. One time they threw my rubber duck back
HonkinHoots@reddit
Smoke would be more useful.
alphabavo@reddit
The fuses themselves have been listed as destructive devices for most flashbangs, same with smoke grenades.
brennanfee@reddit
"Legal"... psh. We elected a felon for President. I don't really think rule of law matters much anymore. I think the question is, "will the new regeme feel threatened by me owning flash bangs?" Your ability to keep them only matters if the answer to THAT question is yes... the law doesn't matter anymore.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
alternatively you can buy 12 gauge trip alarms and put blanks in them. They're hardly flashbang but they scare the f out of deer that go for my trees (before the fence was built). 5th ops sells legit ones. I've noticed that primers make a pop and will definitely ring your ears and scare deer, any blanks beyond that have more bang but they're all the same from a practical standpoint. you can but 50 packs of 12 gauge blanks for cheap.
less_butter@reddit
My dad uses these to keep bears away from his chickens, they're loud as hell. I live in a more suburban area with neighbors close by and I have a couple of the ones that take 22 blanks, the ones you can get from Home Depot/Lowes/Mendards/etc for a Ramset. $10 for 100 blanks. There are also ones that take 209 shotgun primers, those are a bit louder than 22 blanks. I have a bunch of those for my muzzleloader, but I like the 22 ones because you can get 4 levels of Ramset blanks for them. I use the lowest ones, level 1, because it's enough to scare the bears off and it doesn't freak out the neighbors when one goes off at 4am.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
lol yeah the shotgun ones can be super loud if you're close. one of my biggest concerns with them is me or a family member forgetting about them, and while I put them high enough for my dog to run under them he could jump and snag one.
SkyMasterARC@reddit
No, they're considered explosive devices. Just get some firecrackers. Throwing them individually at an intruder will have the same stunning effect as a flashbang. You can do lots of deadly (but illegal) things with firecrackers. So use them wisely. My parents said kids in 80's rural China would shoot pots into the air by placing them upside down over a lit firecracker. Sometimes they blew up glass bottles (and ended up seriously injured).
superboredest@reddit
only if Trump dissolves the ATF, but you can buy airsoft toys
WhoIsCameraHead@reddit
If you are asking preppers on Reddit if something is legal to own, chances are you do not have the training needed to utilize it properly if such a scenario where you needed it ever was to arise. Start thinking practical over tactical.
HavingALittleFit@reddit
I would argue if you're using one, the legality of its ownership is not anyone's top concern.
whiskeytango13@reddit
Those airsoft grenads that use a co2 cylinder are pretty loud, and fun. Play around with those.
TommyC6852@reddit
Be careful w these, if throw into a small brick/center block room w someone in it, it can kill them. So no pranks with these 😂
Usernamenotdetermin@reddit
No one on Reddit can give you legal advice.
superboredest@reddit
Cross your fingers and hope Trump dissolves the ATF, otherwise the real ones that aren't airsoft toys are illegal
vulturetacos@reddit
Yes alot of explosives flash bangs M67 rpgs ect are available and legal for civilians to own provided you file the right paperwork and follow the use instructions
YourModIsAHoe@reddit
I assume you mean a tax stamp. You should mention the caveat of having to file each grenade individually, which cost $200 a pop(lol, pop).
vulturetacos@reddit
Sure but on grenades you engrave the spoon and that’s reusable
PrepperBoi@reddit
I have a reusable “flash bang” that I use for airsoft. Called a quake 8. It’s operates off of 12ga primers. It’s pretty damn loud and disorienting even outdoors without ear protection on. I also have some smoke grenades that are pyrotechnic grade. Enola Gaye Mil-X smoke.
Ineedmoneyyyyyyyy@reddit
For fucking what? Why would you ever need a flash bang?? What shit hitting the fan are you so afraid of? You’re not in the military. I swear people on this sub think The Walking Dead was a documentary or something
Kerensky97@reddit
IKR People stocking up on flashbangs when they still haven't got the stuff to get them through a 1 week power outage that people who recreationally backpack can survive through.
Tasty_Tip_68@reddit
No, they are a classified explosive according to the ATF.
JackAndy@reddit
Fwiw even real flashbangs aren't that effective except in confined spaces. If you're outside, you could have one go off and there's really no flash or bang. That's just my experience.
Someone else recommended the fith ops perimeter alarm and that's not a bad idea because you can use .308 blanks which are very loud. Much louder than a 5.56mm blank. You can also launch aerial flares with it and flares are required equipment for boating as well as just a smart survival item.
RedwanRepublican@reddit
Who you going to flash bang? Someone’s mom?
h5n1zzp@reddit
What about bear scaring ones? Can you buy those?
bes5318@reddit
Yes! There are 2 companies I can reccomend-
Check out IWA international for legit training flashbangs but they're a bit expensive and require you to do their Hazmat course before they ship to you.
The other is Taginn which is primarily for airsoft/paintball but their stuff is really good at a much more reasonable price. Besides utility as a flashbang, they're also just stupidly cool/fun. I usually buy them from Amped Airsoft.
Upstairs-Parsley3151@reddit
The absolute misinformation in this comment section.
Sendit24_7@reddit
No. You used to be able to buy these but they are not anywhere close to an actual flashbang
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
They can be with crime.
On an unrelated topic have you ever had canned soda? Delicious and the can has so many uses when you finish!
Unicorn187@reddit
Yes and no.
Most are considered Destructive Devices and explosives because of the amount of explosives in them. And the fuze (why we don't have smoke grenades anymore). So the $200 NFA stax stamp and wait.
There are lower power one that is legal, but it's really just a weak firecracker. Kind of pointless.
hectorxander@reddit
I wouldn't think so. But you could likely make them yourself. I won't give you any pointers on that even if I knew, which I do.
DustyJaunts@reddit
Microsoft co-pilot just taught me how to make a flashbang. We're doomed
Kradget@reddit
I dunno about "we." Sounds like someone might be about to learn to cherish their remaining fingers.
plowdog46150@reddit
I can see the use of one say a trip wire on the premises but other than that why would you need one?
TotesInnerhalb@reddit
No it would fall under destructive device and requires a 200 dollar tax stamp per individual flashbang with similar process as nfa items.
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
Not true. There are multiple non NFA "pyro" flashbangs for airsoft that you can have overnighted provided you take the incredibly easy 20min certification test, which can be done online. I like IWA and Taggin brand.
TotesInnerhalb@reddit
Those aren't legit flashbangs and are technically classified as pyrotechnics for the airsoft flashbangs. Real flashbangs fall under destructive device.
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
Yes that is exactly what I said. Go get hit by one in a dark room with no PPE with one and you aren't going to be fighting in an effective manner with someone you didn't know was there until you heard the primer pop. Especially if they decided to wrap tin around the tube. Still plenty bright and loud, just not as bright or loud.
Buttafucco138@reddit
True.
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
IWA and Taggin are the only good ones in my experience. Nowhere near as loud as M67s but they still really suck to be in an enclosed space with.
Ambitious_Engineer99@reddit
You can buy a reusable (civilian approved) flash bang that makes use of blank rounds. There are bit pricey for a consummable prep starting at $200-250.
Germainshalhope@reddit
check this, it'll tell you