Any advice from experienced devs who have transitioned into management roles?
Posted by elduqueborracho@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 18 comments
I have about 5yoe as a data scientist with a mish mash of more traditional software dev projects mixed in over that time. I'm applying for a director position within my current company (all candidates will be internal).
Do any devs who've made a similar transition have any advice? What are the best skills to brush up on? What experience should I highlight in interviews?
No_Technician7058@reddit
dont do it. i transitioned back. the bump in pay is not worth the stress.
sonofagunn@reddit
I went from principal engineer to project manager to director and hated it. I hated not being hands on, feeling useless, too many meetings, etc. I realize my experience may be specific to the company and team at the time.
I demoted myself (with the approval of my boss) to an enterprise architect type of position and am probably going to just stick it out here for the rest of my career.
I could see getting into management again if I were working on a software product targeted towards other software developers in a company where management still wrote code, or a small company developing a product I was enthusiastic about.
Constant-Listen834@reddit
Make sure it’s a very large pay raise and prepare to be miserable.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
How big is this company? How many people and levels of the org chart report to this role?
Going from 5YOE and no manager experience straight into a director role would be highly unusual, unless this is a very small company where “director” is just a label used for managers.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but I am trying to understand your situation to provide the right advice
elduqueborracho@reddit (OP)
It's a big company, not technically FAANG but FAANG-sized. And yes, sorry for the confusion on language, director is just our corporate label for managers. This would be managing a team of 10 engineers and data scientists. You're right that I don't have manager experience so it's not something I'm getting my hopes up about, but I did confirm that they're open to promoting someone at my level and I have some leadership and mentor experience within my current team that I'm hoping I can talk about in the interview.
secretBuffetHero@reddit
a good size for a new manager would be 2-3 reports. with 5 years experience and 10 reports this is a terrible setup for everyone.
here is your first challenge: you have 5 years experience. how do you manage someone with 10 years experience? how do you hold them accountable? when they under perform, how will you handle that? if there is a task they don't want to do, how will you handle that?
elduqueborracho@reddit (OP)
I'm not saying you're wrong, and I obviously don't want to set myself up for failure, but where do you find a management role with only 2-3 reports? That seems like overkill to even have a manager for a team that size. As far as I know around 8-10 direct reports is pretty standard at my company for the base level (as you get promoted up the org structure obviously that number would increase).
To answer your questions about experience, I don't necessarily see an individual contributor having more exp than their manager as a huge problem? Some people on my current team have been in tech for decades. If a report on my team doesn't want to do task A, regardless of yoe I think a manager should understand why they don't want to do it. Is there a con that outweighs the pros? Is there a different solution which would work better? Or maybe the team doesn't have the bandwidth to prioritize it. Other engineers or principal engineers also can likely weigh in with their opinions for or against. That's how I like to see things handled from my current perspective as an IC. Am I way off base in thinking that's how a manager should approach things?
Wide-Pop6050@reddit
An individual contributor having more experience than a manager is not automatically a problem. Managing a team is a different skillset from what the IC is doing. The manager has to be good at working with other teams and strategy - but also does have to know enough to know if what the experienced IC is saying makes sense.
secretBuffetHero@reddit
you find it internally. this is how you create a favorable situation for a new manager.
as for your answer to my questions I would say that is how an inexperienced manager would probably answer. and I would say that it would be a lose lose situation for everyone involved.
elduqueborracho@reddit (OP)
I am technically an inexperienced manager so that's fair enough. How would an experienced manager handle it?
secretBuffetHero@reddit
I don't feel like typing all day here. but each one of these questions is really a whole article:
> how do you manage someone with 10 years experience?
it's really too general of a question, it's like saying, how would you play a football game. To get more specific, let's take just a technical discussion, since you don't have more experience and they are the domain expert, your job is to use your technical ability to have an engaging technical discussion where you help them find the answer on their own. perhaps you have some insight, likely not.
> how do you hold them accountable?
you have to learn how to have hard conversations, you have to have taken notes to show they are going to do something and then not follow through. finally you have to have their respect to have that hard conversation. respect is earned not granted.
> when they under perform, how will you handle that?
it's kind of the same question as above, TBH
> if there is a task they don't want to do, how will you handle that?
each situation is different. you have to get to know the person and how they are motivated. then you have to use that knowledge about their motivations
secretBuffetHero@reddit
> I did confirm that they're open to promoting someone at my level
I didn't see this part. They're crazy if they are open to it. but so be it.
Wide-Pop6050@reddit
Reading some of the comments -
I agree that managing 10 people from no managers is a lot.
You find a small management role either by getting a couple direct reports on your own team, or at a smaller org. I did the latter and its been going well. Do you have anyone reporting to you right now? Usually people start with that.
Have you been a team lead on projects or otherwise run projects by yourself?
This will be a big jump if not.
In terms of things to brush up on, project management in general. How to delegate. Long term strategic thinking. Making trade offs between different workstreams. Team culture and dynamics.
MrEloi@reddit
Just 5 yoe?
No management experience?
Director title, in a large firm?
10 direct reports rather than a broader strategic responsibility?
Something doesn't sound right here.
supyonamesjosh@reddit
I’m wondering if this is a interview everyone situation because unless OP is burying the lead they are dramatically under qualified.
supyonamesjosh@reddit
There is not nearly enough information here.
Are you already effectively the manager of your current team? If not you don’t have nearly the experience for this and I would pull out because the worst case is they give you the job and you fail spectacularly.
Nofanta@reddit
It’s a bad move unless you really commit and get to the next level. The reason they’re only interviewing internally is that these lowest level management positions have no value that transfers to another company. And you’re abandoning your tech skills which are highly transferable. Until you get to the next level, it’s the riskiest spot to be in career wise. To get to the next level you’re gonna have to do some people dirty.
secretBuffetHero@reddit
I agree with some of this. I don't think you need to do people dirty. In your first two years as a manager, you are really neither an experienced engineer nor an experienced manager anymore. You are kind of in a vulnerable position.
interviewing internally is a safe and wise move. usually the domain is hard to learn and an incoming person will just not know it. if you can get someone internally, the org gets the best of all worlds.