Plumber charging us for a 15-min quote? Is this normal?

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NrthnLd75@reddit

Diagnoising a fault is not the same as quoting for a job.

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gpt6@reddit

Sending private messages is a bit shit because you didn't like the answer.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

Huh? I haven't sent anyone any private messages. What are you talking about?

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

You didnt ask for a quote, you asked for a diagnosis. I'm a plumber and would 100% charge for this visit.

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I can def see where you’re coming from. The issue that he didn’t really do much: he turned the shower on, asked about the other taps then told us we needed a new one. Does that constitute a diagnosis? Nothing was taken apart or anything

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

In a way yes, obviously I don't know what's wrong with your shower, but I can take a guess that its not getting hot? If so, by turning the other taps on, he's eliminated that the issue isn't with the hot supply, and it must be the shower valve/cartridge. If that's the case then yes it is a diagnosis. The fact it took 15mins just means he's experienced enough to know the issue and he shouldn't really be penalised financially for diagnosing an issue quickly.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

He said nothing about a cartridge/valve really. It's not worth £80. I'm not an expert and I could have told you the shower was broken. He wouldn't fix it either. I'm not even sure he knew what the problem was.

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

Well in that case, yes I'd be pissed too, but in your original post you said he estimated it would cost far to fix then we are willing to pay, that to me would suggest he had diagnosed and offered a solution, now your saying he wouldn't fix it.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

he couldnt fix it - just quoted us £800 for a new shower entirely.

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

£800 for a new shower? What shower do you currently have and what was he replacing it with?

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

We have a Bristol Artisan Evo shower that for some gratuitous reason is designed to use radio waves to connect to the mixer in the loft. He wanted to replace it with a Miro Platinum, which he said cost £800 as Bristan apparently no longer make my shower so we cannot find parts.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

You'd also tell them that upfront, yes?

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

Not really, if a customer rings and asks me to come to a look at their faulty shower, I'm going to assume they would expect a fee for diagnosing/fixing the issue.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

And your diagnosis would be more than "that's broken" right?

Obviously you should charge for fixing it, but telling someone what they already know, isn't diagnosis.

You should tell people if they're going to incurr a call out fee or not, even if you think it's obvious. I think it's pretty piss poor if you don't. Frankly.

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spanksmitten@reddit

You wouldn't notify a customer of your charges before they incur them?

It's not about charging for a diagnosis, it's not mentioning the charge before the customer incurs it nor the amount. If you assume they should know there will be a bill, surely it's not that bizarre for a customer to assume if there was going to be a charge, you'd mention it beforehand?

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

Based on that logic, if I ordered a taxi, and they only tell me the fee at the end of the journey, should I refuse to pay because it wasn't made clear at the start that there would be a cost?

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spanksmitten@reddit

That's a really shoddy example given that taxis offer one service alone that is unanimously known to be charged, not to mention their visible counter they typically have advising of charge as you go. Nobody expects a plumber to fix a toilet and not pay.

If you want to equate the logic it would be calling a taxi and asking for directions. The taxi driver would be using their expertise and knowledge to advise you. If the taxi driver wanted to, validly, charge for their knowledge, would you not expect to be notified of the charge and the amount of charge upfront, prior to incurring it?

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ClaphamOmnibusDriver@reddit

Would you at any point mention that prior though? I suspect you would.

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

Not unless asked. If a customer rings and asks for a diagnosis like op did, I'd assume they would expect a charge for that service.

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ClaphamOmnibusDriver@reddit

This leads to these situations I guess, a bit of upfront clarity on your behalf wouldn't be so unreasonable from a consumer perspective.

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

To be honest, it's never normally an issue, a quote to repair/replace includes the initial callout fee and 99% of the time, the price is always accepted.

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LenzaRNG@reddit

Would you do this without telling the customer you would be charging them, though? That seems to be OP's main problem here.

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P2P-BSH@reddit

Why would they do it for free? It's not a hobby.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

because at no point did they state that it would cost anything. many other tradesmen have looked at various things around the house and not charged for it - I didn't see why this would be any different

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P2P-BSH@reddit

At any point did they say it was free, or did you just assume that?

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

At no point did they say it would cost anything, so yes I assumed that.

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P2P-BSH@reddit

That's why you shouldn't assume.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

I feel as if it's a business's responsibility to inform clients of costs if they're going to charge them.

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P2P-BSH@reddit

And I feel you should pay when you get people out for a diagnosis.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

I look forward to not paying it.

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gpt6@reddit

Most definitely, when u step in to a vets door your charge for a consultation. Just an example

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

Nah that's nonsense. If you're going to charge for a quote then you outwardly say so.

Consideration is literally a key part of contract law for this very reason.

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Fearless-Director210@reddit

Quoting is a cost of doing business for most firms though

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P2P-BSH@reddit

It wasn't a quote. It was a diagnostic visit.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

He didn't diagnose jack shit. "you need a new one" isn't a diagnosis.

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Fearless-Director210@reddit

Sorry you replied whilst I was editing. I agree if it was a diagnostic visit then what you said stands I hadn't seen all the other comments saying that

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gpt6@reddit

Going to look at a shower and then it needs replacing but the customer doesn't want it done for whatever is most defo chargeable. You are paying for my experience of 30+yrs. Do you go to work and not get paid. However if its to give a price that would be free but generally a couple of questions over phone regarding shower unit and you have an idea of what's wrong. I'm a plumber.

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spanksmitten@reddit

Would you not mention a charge or how much it would be prior to the customer incurring it though?

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Rootes_Radical@reddit

I’m not sure why you’d have any expectation that it would be free? It’s his job and he needs to be paid for it.

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spanksmitten@reddit

Because not everyone is a tradesman and would initially know off the bat that there's a difference between a diagnosis and a quote to fix. What if it were an 85 year old man who called?

Not notifying there would be a charge aside, not notifying the amount the charge would be before the customer incurred it.

I personally think it's awful customer service to not mention the cost of a service before providing it. I do think he should charge, but I also think he should notify the customer the amount it will be prior to doing it.

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Rootes_Radical@reddit

I see your point of view but I don’t agree. I just don’t feel like this was OP asking for a quote - he said the plumber came to look at his faulty shower. He called him out, and was charged a call out fee.

Bear in mind what OP is calling 15 minutes, is x amount of time travelling there, 15 minutes on site, x amount of time travelling away again, the plumbers experience and knowledge, and while he was doing this he wasn’t carrying out another chargeable job.

Tradespeople who work for themselves don’t get far if they’re too reluctant to charge for their time.

You don’t get much for £80 these days.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

Tradesmen generally don't charge for having a cursory look at something. We've had half a dozen people over in the past year for various bits of work and nobody charged for the initial call-out. It's not wrong to assume plumbers would be different.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

>He called him out

Well yeah no shit Sherlock.

Do plumbers just pop over on the off chance where you are?

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spanksmitten@reddit

I agree with the point of the charge, im not even against the amount, I do however wholly disagree with the idea of not notifying the customer the minimum amount the charge could be.

What would be stopping someone whopping a huge bill on the customer post service without prior approval, just because they can? If gives the customer no option to decline the service if they disagree with the price (even if it's fair).

Again, my issue is not the charge or even necessarily the amount itself, but to not notify a customer that there is a charge and moreso how much the charge minimum will be, should not be acceptable.

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Rootes_Radical@reddit

You’re not wrong I suppose. Plumber probably made the same assumption I and a lot of others in this thread have but he should probably be clearer.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

It's a poor assumption if you're expecting to get paid. Consideration is one of the basis of a valid contract, without it it's completely unenforceable.

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spanksmitten@reddit

That's my point really. I think OP should pay, I would, I just wouldn't call them again.

Every tradesperson I've ever used, or even any service I've ever used the payment is always agreed upon prior to use. I don't do any work without having an amount agreed beforehand.

Maybe at minimum it's just bad customer service, but it is bad customer service to not be clear on cost and charges.

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gpt6@reddit

Does the garage tell you b4 hand or the vet how do you know how much its going to be without seeing what the fault is

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

A garage tells you the price to diagnose the fault up front, yes.

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spanksmitten@reddit

Because their prices are listed on the website, or, magically, they tell me before they do anything.

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gpt6@reddit

I'm sorry but that's not true. If you want to know how much someone is going to charge its upto you to ask

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spanksmitten@reddit

Then that's bad customer service on your part. If you want to be able to invoice someone legally, it's up to you to have both parties agree to the contract beforehand.

I just pray you don't have any elderly or vulnerable customers with that attitude.

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gpt6@reddit

I don't charge that much, 35 p/h no call out unless late or weekends, unless it's gas or oil which is more. Never had a problem up till now . So I will carry on

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spanksmitten@reddit

no call out unless late or weekends,

And I would imagine (or hope) you notify customers of that charge before they incur it. If I call you up late night on a weekend, I assume (or hope) you would say, "by the way it's a £x callout charge".

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gpt6@reddit

So I would go and look and it cant be fixed and lose an hours pay, do u work for free by any chance ??? . No job takes 5mins by the time u get there, diagnose fault and to be truthful op says 5mins but people always say that. Your paying for the experience the plumber may or may not have but that's a different thing.

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spanksmitten@reddit

No, you've completely missed my point.

Before you even stand up, you would tell the customer "I have a callout charge of £x". Easy.

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gpt6@reddit

Either way £80 depending where you are based is not extreme.

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spanksmitten@reddit

It's perfectly reasonable! But it's not up to the contractor to decide what is acceptable or affordable to the customer.

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gpt6@reddit

I agree its up to the customer but they probably should of asked instead of whining later

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spanksmitten@reddit

Equally, in my opinion, if the business wants to send an invoice he is just as responsible to ensure its agreed upon prior. Realistically if that's how other businesses operated, what's stopping anyone dropping a £500 invoice and just "well that's my callout fee that I didn't warn you of".

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gpt6@reddit

As long as its a reasonable amount and you are not getting ripped off. I don't think it's a problem. Thankfully I haven't worked for you 🙃

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spanksmitten@reddit

And we can agree to disagree!

And who determines what is a 'reasonable amount'? If the customer isnt aware beforehand, they can't/won't know to get any other quotes to compare. I'd pay the invoice, I'd just never use or recommend that business again.

Lmao, what a childish way to finish off your comment. Enjoy your day.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

The fact that you’re a plumber yourself explains it all

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_pankates_@reddit

I work in lettings and property management so I deal with contractors all the time. No, this isn't normal. I'm really surprised at the response you're getting. It is possible that a contractor might charge for a diagnostic visit as some are saying, but this should be clear beforehand that that's what they were doing and the cost, and you'd expect something more from that than an invoice, ie. proper information on what the issue is they've diagnosed and how this can be resolved. A good example would be a safety certificate for gas or electric that may include a list of issues they've discovered and recommendations for further work. It's standard that this would be charged just as it's standard that you'd get a report afterwards, so for that you wouldn't necessarily agree a cost beforehand.

I don't believe it's common practice for contractors to charge for what appears on the facts you've given to be a visit to quote for a repair, and in lieu of it being common practice or a cost being agreed, I really don't understand why you would expect to pay. Part of the life of a contractor is quoting for work that you don't win, and you don't charge for the quote visit - it's a usual part of that type of business.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

That’s sort of what I thought. Perhaps there are quite a few people replying to this who are in the trade themselves. Thanks for such a detailed response (certainly more detailed than the invoice)

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West-Ad-1532@reddit

Which is it?

Diagnosis or quote?

Or was it a diagnosis and then a free quote?

You've been billed to diagnose the fault.

Whether you accept his quote, you didn't like him or any other reason.

Pay your bill.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

We asked him to fix our shower, he told us we needed a new one. I’m not sure whether that qualifies as a diagnosis.

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gpt6@reddit

You used his experience would you of preferred an apprentice round but spending 3hrs to diagnose the problem

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spanksmitten@reddit

I imagine most people would prefer to be notified of an upcoming charge before incurring it.

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gpt6@reddit

I never tell people unless they ask to be truthful

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

Are you trying to be the cliche of a shit tradie?

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gpt6@reddit

Ok, so every trades person that doesn't give an upfront price is a cowboy and ripping people off. Boy do u talk some shite

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

Yes? If you expect them to pay it you literally need to tell them how much it will cost.

At least I know how to spell "you".

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Chicken_shish@reddit

Ridiculous.

Unless, up front, he said "I charge money for quotes".

if he didn't say that, tell him to jog on and find a better plumber.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

Some proper Norberts here, It's very common to call tradies out to quote for a job without expecting to pay them, if they're expecting to be paid for it then they should've said up front.

I've never paid for a tradesman to quote for a job before.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

that's what my experiences have been until now.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

What specifically did you ask then to do to get them round? did you ask them just for a quote?

I think they're having you on.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

Our shower was on the blink so I asked what the problem was, he came round for 5 minutes, asked about the taps/hot water in other bathrooms then told us we needed a new shower. That was it really. He didn't take anything apart.

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TheCrunker@reddit

He diagnosed a fault. Pay the man

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

"that's broken" isn't a diagnosis.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

Consideration is required for a contract to be valid. Without them telling you there was a cost, let alone what that cost was, then you cannot have had consideration.

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tmstms@reddit

You probably both got your wires crossed- he expected to have the chance to fit your new shower, and you did not expect to be charged for him having a look.

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Wide-Rhubarb-1153@reddit

Exactly, I would expect them to say upfront is there is a call out/quote charge.

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secretstothegravy@reddit

I might start a business going round people’s houses saying nah can’t fix that mate that’ll be £80 please. I’ve got no plumbing/electrical/chippy knowledge but I don’t need any. This time next year rodders.

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Significant_Tower_84@reddit

He didn't say he couldn't fix it, it was the customer who didn't want to pay what it would cost to fix.

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secretstothegravy@reddit

Ok I’ll revise it to ‘I can fix it mate but it’ll cost you £3000’ they either say no or yes and I get someone in to change the tap. Can’t lose.

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culturerush@reddit

If I call a tradie out to look at something payment usually depends on how long they are there for

I had a leccy come out the other day to look at my shower, he was there for half an hour, couldn't find a fault with it but tightened up all the wiring anyway and took it apart and put it back together. Probably was there around 30 mins and charged us £30.

£80 for 15 mins sounds alot less reasonable

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dayus9@reddit

I'm not sure why you'd expect someone to come out and diagnose a fault for free.

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spanksmitten@reddit

I'd probably expect someone to mention the expected charge though. If the customer had known prior it was going to be £x, then they're able to determine what they want to do.

Not mentioning a charge, let alone the amount, then invoicing it afterwards is at the minimum, crap customer service.

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

Quoting for a job is pretty routine. I've never paid a tradesman for it.

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spanksmitten@reddit

I would pay, begrudgingly. I agree with the reason for the charge but I feel that it would be important to first notify you there would be a charge but also the amount it could likely be.

I'd also not use their services again. It's not that they have charged, but they were neither clear about it nor the amount to expect.

I've heard my dad take calls plenty of times, albeit he works for a company and not himself, but he always makes it very, very clear that there would be a charge if he comes out, so I guess that's the context of my opinion.

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Jebus_UK@reddit

No. Sounds like a charlatan

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megatron420xoxo@reddit

Post this in r/LegalAdviceUK if you’re not sure whether you are required to pay or not.

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LonelyArmpit@reddit

Two ways of looking at this:

He was called out to diagnose an issue. You’ve been billed a diagnositics charge. This feels pretty normal to me.
He came round to quote on doing a renovation / upgrade to the shower. I would be surprised to be invoiced for this. Some places do charge but they’re normally very upfront about any flat fee for coming out to visit the property for a quote for a renovation / upgrade piece of work.

I guess it depends on which way you look at it and how the initial conversations were framed

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72dk72@reddit

Agree - Did you ask him to come look at your shower or did you ask him to come and quote for replacing the shower. First is chargeable, second one you should have confirmed he was coming to give you a free quote.

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Lalalala943@reddit

I had this. Had a guy come out to look at our washing machine; he said it couldn't be fixed and charged us £50.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

Did you pay it?

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Leo-DiCapriYO@reddit

Would recommend deleting this, 25 minutes in and you are not getting the pity/support you're looking for.

I'll admit its not great that they didn't tell you what the callout fee was, but you don't get much for free in this life

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

I wasn't looking for pity - it's £80 - I wanted to gauge what was reasonable as I can't figure it out myself.

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h13pwl@reddit

Why would anyone spend their time and knowledge diagnosing your problem for free so you can shop around?

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

I'm not shopping around, we just cant afford the £800 quote for a new shower.

I was also never informed that it would cost anything, much like the various other quotes we've had for stuff around the house over the years. We wern't billed for them.

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tmstms@reddit

It should have been established in advance whether he woul charge for just coming out.

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terryjuicelawson@reddit

You could just not pay if this wasn't agreed, they probably have bigger fish to fry... But they probably do have a call out charge as they would have fixed it if they could. Quite thankful I have a guy who I just ping on whatsapp with some pictures and he says what is good to go or not.

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AdCurrent1125@reddit

This is not a charge for a quote it's a change for a diagnostic visit.

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Round_Caregiver2380@reddit

Paying people for their time has been standard practice for over 1000 years.

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doucelag@reddit (OP)

I always expected preliminary visits to be billable to me but no other tradesman has done it before - we've had 5 or so folks come round to quote on various bits of work with no charge - so I didn't really know what standard practice is.

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