Will sim flying actually help me for IFR?
Posted by YourLeaderSays@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 55 comments
Just what the title says. I'm looking at buying a new PC, yolk system, and msfs 2024 to practice IFR training on my own before summer. Will this actually help? Or do you think just reading and studying everything for IFR without sim training is 90% as good?
cazzipropri@reddit
Yes, immensely.
Get X-plane, buy AirManager, buy a $35 trim wheel, recreate the avionics you have in the real plane (G530 or G100 or G5), link foreflight, set cumulus from 500 AGL to infinity, and fly holds and approaches in all cross-wind conditions.
It will help immensely.
Coolgrnmen@reddit
You left out PilotEdge which helps simulate more tasks to avoid task saturation in the real world
RexFiller@reddit
This is basically what I did. Helps a lot with situational awareness and button pushing so you can speed up your scan when in actual.
cazzipropri@reddit
I wish I had actual button and knobs. But the realsimgear equipment is $500 for a GNS530. I'm sorry - it's not worth it to me, especially when I'm training for varying equipment. If I switch to G1000 I can't add another $2000. Knobsters are $110 each, and I need 6 of them for a GNS530 plus GFC500 plus double G5 configuration. I'm thinking of touch screens, but they are still expensive for 27 inch sizes and don't give the same muscle memory...
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
And if you really want to go budget, get a used Xbox Series S and a T-Flight HOTAS. That's what I use to practice instrument procedures and it works just fine, with limitations (no ForeFlight link, no PilotEdge/VATSIM, etc). Still, nice for a $300ish setup.
Bravo-Buster@reddit
I used the sim to learn the GPS instruments (430w), because spinning knobs in the plane when the Hobbs is running was way more expensive than buying a sim unit and learning at home.
I don't like flight controls in home sims, because trim doesn't work like real life at all. But, it's pretty good for learning approaches and the equipment.
bdc41@reddit
What system?
49Flyer@reddit
While PC-based simulators will never teach you the feel of the airplane, they make excellent procedural trainers. I wouldn't recommend using one without an instructor's guidance, though, since you don't want to learn the wrong things and then be forced to relearn them the right way.
gromm93@reddit
On the other hand, you can still unlearn things you were doing wrong, on a sim. If you already have the sim, you don't have to pay for it.
The important part is to get feedback from someone qualified to teach you.
49Flyer@reddit
Only if your time is worthless. Learning things the right way the first time is always more efficient.
gromm93@reddit
Are you getting paid in your time off?
The "only if your time is worthless" people are billing $500 an hour and working 80 hours a week.
Real money is real money. Time is nothing if you're not paying for it, or not getting paid for it.
Hefty_End_786@reddit
Yes, it will. As an instrument rated pilot, I still use it for fun and to reinforce skills. Like the top poster said, set for overcast at 500' AGL and practice applicable tasks according to the IR ACS. It's brilliant. I prefer MSFS 2020, but whatever works.
Ok-Dust-@reddit
Have fun with the sim and learn the basic navigation functions of the equipment you will be using. I wouldn’t worry about the approach itself, but you can absolutely learn to flip through the menus and input a basic flight plan. That alone will help you more than enough, and personally i taught both the instructors I had things in the g1000. (Not a lot, but a couple little things you just learn by playing around with it in the sim)
Leave the technical stuff like briefing an approach plate and flying the actual approach to your instructor.
Lanky_Beyond725@reddit
You can certainly do approaches in a good PC sim and my yoke and VR setup makes it just like the real plane. For IFR training it's definitely worth it
Flying_4fun@reddit
What VR setup do you have? I tried with a single 32"monitor and it wasn't good enough.
snoandsk88@reddit
I would argue that a home based sim is THE MOST beneficial thing you could do to supplement IR training. You need to learn to fly the instruments and not the seat of your pants. You can fly all of the approaches and they will be pretty much true to life.
The thing sims do not do very well is simulate that actual feel and responsiveness of the real aircraft (especially drag) but that matters very little for IR training.
dieseltaco@reddit
Taxiing and applying power on the ground. Crash and burn
snoandsk88@reddit
Try taxing a level D sim 🤮
CaptMcMooney@reddit
if you are honest about it, absolutely. no shortcuts. In some ways, for ifr, it's actually better than a real airplane.
shockadin1337@reddit
Yes, theres a reason why you can do IPCs or log currency in approved sims. Hint: all most of these are is glorified xplane setups...
srbmfodder@reddit
I did it for procedures, flying a flight plan and then an approach plate. It helped a lot, but I was in my instruments phase of training at the time.
Mre64@reddit
As somebody who used flight sim 2020 to get their IFR, yes 1000% yes. The amount you can practice is infinite and it will keep you sharp
Original412@reddit
Xplane is better for IFR in my experience
digital_dyslexia@reddit
I also made the yoke mistake on this reddit once
ltcterry@reddit
On your own? Probably not a great idea.
Practicing things at home that you've already learned from your CFII - that will be a big help.
clocks212@reddit
Microsoft flight sim helped me because I was able to add different crosswinds and flying NDB approaches (I'm old-ish). It also helped because I could quickly drag the plane around the map and see what all the needles would look like and orient myself on the approach plate based on the needles. I got my rating in planes without GPS so situational awareness really helped me.
What didn't help at all and was always a waste of time for me was startup, taxing, takeoffs/landings. I would never do that in microsoft flight sim for training. But being in the clouds with a manually set 250 ft ceiling and intercepting and flying an ILS into an intercetion hold was definitely useful.
rvrbly@reddit
If you set it up correctly, and use proper techniques and proceedures, and have it set up with realistic controls -- YES. I hadn't flown for over 20 years, got a year of VFR, then went for my IPC. Using MSFS 2020 was amazingly helpful in refreshing the whole thing, and learning about GPS navigation and approaches. Even using the in-game ATC isn't too bad if you set it up as an IFR flight from beginning to end, and start on the ramp. There are a few oddities that you can figure out, but it will take you through a whole simulated practice flight. I would set it up with minimum weather, no turbulence or wind because they suck in the game, then fly the whole thing just like I would if I were doing a flight from my home airport to a local RNAV approach nearby.
Force yourself not to push pause, or to use the autopilot. Or, to learn a new approach, I use the autopilot in manual settings and make sure my whole flow is correct, then restart and fly by hand. It really helps.
cjonesaf@reddit
Sure, it can help with procedures and instrument interpretation.
InGeorgeWeTrust_@reddit
Personally I don’t like sims, much prefered the real plane especially for IFR.
You do not get a real feel for anything, full motion is better but on a PC is just a game imo.
Flightyler@reddit
In my experience X-Plane feels a heck of a lot closer to a real plane than a full motion Redbird or MSFS.
InGeorgeWeTrust_@reddit
Sims never get it right. Downvote all ya want, no substitute for the real plane
aftcg@reddit
Cranky old 121 driver here, and checkairman on the 767, I'm here to upvote the hell outta you
Flightyler@reddit
Nobody is arguing it’s a substitute lmao just a cheap effective way to supplement training.
Scout-Penguin@reddit
If nothing else, if you have a high-fidelity simulation of whatever glass is in your plane (e.g. G1000), that can just be extremely useful for familiarization. You don't even need a yoke. Just learning the buttonology is helpful, particularly given how clunky/unintuitive something like G1000 can be on first contact.
buriedupsidedown@reddit
Yeah back in the day I used a g1000 app. At any given time I got either the pfd or the mfd from my iPad. I just “flew” my iPad procedurally, it helped. The controls are added benefits and any time you can get even closer to the real thing.
PROfessorShred@reddit
It will help you stay on top of things but won't help you learn anything new. It's funny looking back at my playing MSFS before I started training I would follow my schools planes on Flight Radar and saw where the practice areas were. And would just familiarize myself with the area. Then I started training and could do my checklists and fly traffic patterns.
I then saw on here that someone had flown a cessna around the world in a Sim and decided I wanted to do that. So I started flying VFR and just short hopped airport to airport looking up their atis, comms, TPA ,etc. Because doing a 5 hour flight with no stops is boring. Now that I'm in instrument I'm navigating via VOR's and GPS Waypoints. I'm probably a week or two from learning approaches and hope to start incorporating that into my journey here shortly.
It's a good way to exercise the skills you already know, and it's given me a ton of experience navigating the avionics menus.
KW1908@reddit
I used flight simulator for IFR and recommend it. However definitely look up procedures and stuff before aimlessly trying in a sim.
cutchemist42@reddit
Not a CPL but Xplane/FSX had a great Dash8 and my dad used to love practicing with it, when he had sim evals coming up.
yeahgoestheusername@reddit
Yes in my opinion (but I’m not a CFI and don’t have my IR). Suggestions:
AlmasyTran@reddit
Absolutely yes. Even the FAA approved simulator, can be legally used to maintain IFR currency, is using the outdated Microsoft Flight Simulator X.
The simulator will help you saved tons of money practicing procedures, VOR, XC.
Just learn a few lessons with the CFI first, before doing it yourself on the simulator. Some bad habits can be created by incorrect self learning, for example, reverse sensing.
anactualspacecadet@reddit
I think it did, but not msfs, a real sim with an instructor. MSFS doesn’t have good radio and it doesn’t simulate bullshit well which is the hardest part of instrument flying imo. Example is “winds 190 at 25 gusting 30 cleared to land runway 13”, sims just don’t do that bullshit, but i know in a cessna you can’t do that landing
yeahgoestheusername@reddit
VATSIM does this bullshit well and it’s free and works with most sims, including MSFS. If you want something that strictly follows phrasing then there is PilotEdge.
TravelNo437@reddit
Hit the sim, work on your scan and using your avionics as well as your checklists.
omykronbr@reddit
Yes, but I would recommend going to xplane, not msfs.
Also, add some aatd/batd simulators so you can have even more experience in ifr that you can put to use in real life.
LateralThinkerer@reddit
It can help you visualize the things you're reading/being taught and translate them into what things should look like, but only to a certain point. It's not a "simulator" in a real sense - there's no kinematic feedback and the control switches etc. have to be run through the mouse/keyboard. If you look at the cost/benefit, the few hundred you can put this together for may (may) be offset by a shorter and less expensive real world training expense.
JonathanO96@reddit
OP I don’t see where a motorcycle comes into this, but sim is a great supplement to training. Helps build good habits if done well. Time in an actual seat will always be best, but $700 in a sim rig will get you a hell of a lot more flight skills than $700 in a motorcycle.
You won’t learn IFR by only flying sim, but you can learn it faster by flying sim
Lanky_Beyond725@reddit
For ifr and reading plates and tuning VORS etc a good PC sim can help a ton. Plus you can lower clouds to minimums etc and fail gyros. It's very weird to fly even a still PC with a failed attitude indicator.. I think it's great practice. Also many have the Garmin 430 and 650 apps you can install in the flight sim and learn those also. For VFR, not as much as the feel is wrong.
TheKgbWillWaitForNo1@reddit
The way I see it its augmented chair flying, so go for it!
Oogaboogacoo@reddit
Yeah absolutely, I played so much Microsoft flight sim to prepare for my cfii
joeyheynow@reddit
Yes. It helped me to get my IR 2 years ago. And saved some $ as i was well prepared for each lesson. Good luck!
flyingron@reddit
I'd recommend putting the eggs away and getting a yoke.
A training device may be useful to help you maintain currency or even handy when you are accompanied by an instructor to demonstrate things that are easier to do when you can stop and restart than what you'd have to do in flight.
However, thinking that you are going to teach yourself on the SIM and then go get instruction is going to lead to the acquisition some particularly bad habits which you will waste time breaking when you get real instruction.
You want to save time on your instrument instruction? GET THE BOOKWORK COLD. Go beyond the basic text or exam cram on Weather, Charting, Procedures. Either in the plane or a sim is a inefficient way to learn this.
ShitBoxPilot@reddit
Yes. If you first have good habits and are able to practice good habits it will 100% pay for itself if it saves you from repeating only a couple flights.
If you don’t have a foundation and practice bad habits it will make your life tougher. Get some training first with a CFII
SomeCessnaDriver@reddit
yolks are in eggs, yokes are in airplanes
do you already have a pilot certificate? Guided training with a CFII in a simulator can be a worthwhile and cheap way to practice procedures. Do you have a nearby flying school or club with an FAA approved simulator? That way you don't have to spend all this money on computer game crap and you can even log the time you spend towards a rating.
taycoug@reddit
Not on your own. You can practice things an instructor has already taught you but don’t teach yourself how to do anything.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Just what the title says. I'm looking at buying a new PC, yolk system, and msfs 2024 to practice IFR training on my own before summer. Will this actually help? Or do you think just reading and studying everything for IFR without sim training is 90% as good?
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