What have been your experiences switching from corporate to a startup?
Posted by Imaginary-Cupcake328@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 31 comments
I’ve been at my current job for about a year and a half, I’m comfy which is great, the team is great, excellent people and work is chill. Pay is also great. It is not entirely corporate but it is a “startup inside a corporation” so dynamics are different than a corp but not entirely startup-like.
I’ve just been presented with an opportunity at an early stage startup. I have the skills but would be out of my comfort zone while I adapt to some of the tech.
Pay is just a bit higher but they give stock. The startup has been around for about 2 years.
The company is waaay smaller than where I currently work, so I may get more exposure and more opportunities to grow, but would definitely be less chill.
I’m always open to new challenges and I get FOMO like “what if I don’t try this out?”. I understand all startups are different but would like to know what you experiences have been and what do you suggest me to do or to think about.
Thx!
EndOfTheDigitalAge@reddit
You will encounter more opportunities to wear many hats than at a corporate. A startup usually does not have enough manpower to keep everyone in their most-skilled niche, thus a holistic approach to business is required. You will have more chances to broaden your skillset beyond pure codemonkeying (holding presentations, customer support, documentation).
Communication is more open and less constricted, which can be a blessing and a curse. If your superiors permeate a toxic company culture, you might be out of luck trying to change it. You must be able to clearly set your boundaries.
Don't put too much hope into stock, options, virtual options, etc. Things can easily go tits up from the startup's or your end.
hitanthrope@reddit
This guy start-ups.
I agree with everything said but want to add additional weight specifically to number 3.
Treat startup options as being valued at very very close to zero. I’ve been involved at “reports to board” level at several startups, some of which are now successful mid-size companies. I’ve had “founder stock”. I’m not rich and still work a day job.
Non-public stock options are one of the most complicated asset classes that exist. Most people would be staggered if they understood 10% of the complexity. Even if you understand what you have now, this can change with every round of funding or indeed any board meeting.
You can read all the various reports of even founding CEOs getting screwed over on exit and consider yourself 1000x more vulnerable.
The amount of times I hear someone say something like, “I’m getting 0.5% so if they exit for a billion I’ll make 5 mil”, and I think… “oh sweet summer child…”.
Take them, put them in a virtual drawer and forget about them.
economicwhale@reddit
I hate this take about startup options, it’s the prevailing narrative that you should value your options at zero.
You shouldn’t. You should get a spreadsheet out, read something about fund raising and dilution and put an actual expected value to your startup equity. It’s not zero, it’s a lot higher than that, it’s just a higher risk bet.
moreVCAs@reddit
Lol. The point of that guidance is that options shouldn’t constitute a huge chunk of your pay. If they do you’re basically getting scammed (i.e. gambling with extremely unfavorable odds and high stakes).
You forgot “90% fail rate”. And the fact that some of the 10% that exit don’t have a meaningful liquidity event as pertains to your RSOs or whatever.
Just because the statistically and psychologically correct framing takes 2s to communicate doesn’t mean it hasn’t been thought through.
economicwhale@reddit
If I join a pre-seed startup with no investors your options aren’t worth much at all.
If I join a Series B startup backed by a Tier 1 VC company, my options are very much not worthless. In fact, in expectation they are valued more than cash, they just have far higher risk.
If you joined Stripe, would you value your options at 0 just because they aren’t public yet?
We should learn to understand at a basic level the expected value and risk of options and not just write them off.
hitanthrope@reddit
My point is, if you do this, you’ll figure out that they should be valued close to zero. What do you think the average dollar return is per option issued across, say, all companies < 3 years old?
Walk into any bank and ask to borrow against your handful of early stage company options. Let me know when they stop laughing.
Generally, employee option shares are their own class distinct from founder and investor class shares which means they can be diluted independently. Investors will build anti-dilution clauses into their terms, employee shares will not have this. Do you have “drag along / tag along provisions” on your options? Do you (general you) even know what these things are?
Even if you sit down with a lawyer and figure all this out, they will tell you that they can only explain the current situation but not how things might change as the company structure changes or gets more complex.
Here’s a good question to ask?
“Who represents the employee class of shares on the board?”. The answer, almost always, will be “nobody”.
Essentially, if the company fails, you won’t get anything. If the company exits in a way that makes you surplus to requirements you almost certainly won’t get anything, or at least very little. If the company exits and you are still considered necessary, then you’ll probably get something but it probably won’t be any more than you’d have been offered to stay even if you never had the options.
The only way you are getting rich is if you work for one of the very few companies that IPO in a big way. That’s it.
EndOfTheDigitalAge@reddit
That's all I can think about right now.
Disclaimer: I worked for one of the world's biggest corporations as a working student, then moved on to startups after graduating.
AggressiveTitle9@reddit
I'm not following this point super well, could you provide an example?
EndOfTheDigitalAge@reddit
Camel_Sensitive@reddit
This really only applies to the lower rungs of corporations. The higher rungs of corporations have a significantly higher barrier to entry than the startup world does, so maybe it's not well known.
EndOfTheDigitalAge@reddit
Do you not agree that a corporation, just by measure of its resources, offers better possibilites for employees to fade into the background compared to startups - despite a higher barrier of entry?
Camel_Sensitive@reddit
My claim was that the higher rungs of people in corporations skew towards the right on your scale as often, if not more, than startups, not that entire corporations do. This may be hard to see because the barrier to those people specifically is much higher than your average start up founder.
Whether the corporation has the resources to holistically absorb low performers isn't relevant to the discussion. If your definition of a startup includes all new businesses to be a more apples to apples comparison of all corporations, then you need to include things like landscaping, photography, and child services. In which case, you're unlikely to find the right side of your scale at all in the vast majority of business less than a year old.
DrMerkwuerdigliebe_@reddit
That sounds like me two years ago. I was in one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world and had an excelent team with huge startup vibes it was amazing. Due to personal reasons I had to move 3 hours away and worked remote for years. Until i decided I wanted to try the startup thing and not work remotely.
I came to the startup and it was the worst experience ever. I was only there 3 months. I then went on to find a different company also a startup, which is great and I'm happy now. If it wasn't for the distance I would have stayed in the corperate work. Because it is just unique to get the scale of big corperations and the agility of a startup.
Startups are generally a BIG gamble. There will be some fake it until you make it and there are allot of the things you take for granted in the corperate world that does not exist. I think startups have a staff turnover of around 50 %, so there is a large chance you will regret it.
Herrowgayboi@reddit
I went the other direction. Startup life most my career then moved to FAANG. I will say it's quite nice not being overly stressed and pushed to get feature after feature out. On top of that, even with PIP, I still feel way more stable with this job than some other startups I've been at + the fact the pay is just so much better.
Having said that, it's not all roses and sunshine. Coming from startup culture, these are the things I dislike...
No_Technician7058@reddit
my friend left his corporate job to join a startup. he was laid off last december. still no job.
my other friend left his FAANG position to join a startup. was laid off last january. still no job.
a third guy had the same thing happen to him. except for him, he lost his job in March 2022. still no job. he is no longer on linkedin anymore.
these people all had +10 years experience. they were not rockstars but they were all solid devs.
joining a startup could be fun. it could also run your life.
freekayZekey@reddit
personally hated it. at least with corporate, i had some structure. at the startups, i had the opportunity to wear more hats, but the other folks teaching me or piecing shit together didn’t know what was going on. plus the constant worry of making money
attrox_@reddit
Mountain_Sandwich126@reddit
Are you able to be pragmatic? Sometimes building the right thing wrong is needed to get the feedback
ninetofivedev@reddit
So… first thing: the stock is probably Monopoly money. It might have some value, but odds are it won’t. Don’t put too much stake into it.
Startups are good in the sense that you can be responsible for more things, and this build a broader skill set.
They’re bad in the sense that you’re responsible for more things, there is less cushion, and thus you’ll likely feel pressured to rush and work longer hours to meet the demands.
Also because there is often a direct line of communication up and down, that can be either very refreshing or god awful depending on the personality of your executive team.
I like startup culture, but I’ve also had a lot of bad experiences at startups. They’re not all the same so it’s impossible to give blanket advice.
OverEggplant3405@reddit
I went the other way, from startups and small business to corporate.
You get more responsibility / blame in startups, and the stakes are higher. Instead of specializing, you get pushed toward understanding how it all fits together.
Most people just want to build what seems cool to them, but this will screw you in a startup. Nobody wants to buy your cool thing. They want to do their jobs and go home. If you're in a startup, but you're not talking to users/clients frequently, or it's run by a steve jobs wannabe, you are doomed to find yourself lost in a wasteland of half-baked features nobody wanted, wondering why those paychecks keep getting delayed.
MrEloi@reddit
So, it may be fun move - but the whole thing could vapourise at any time, if the main firm gets bored with it or loses faith. If that happens you may be tainted.
However if is am amazing success, the initial staff (plus some corporate creeps who were never even there) will get all the benefit, not you.
As it's not a real startup, it won't be regarded as one by hirers, even if you claim it is on your resume.
The_Big_Sad_69420@reddit
“Early stage startup” - be prepared to work 12+ hours a day. If you’re gonna be one of the “founding engineers” or senior+, or any leading positions (tech lead/manager), be prepared to do five people’s worth of work by yourself.
Also as others have pointed out, stock options at an early stage startup mean zero.
If that’s still appealing you, then consider it.
Beginning-Comedian-2@reddit
Your current job:
The new job:
Advice:
Imaginary-Cupcake328@reddit (OP)
Thanks for your input!
Beginning-Comedian-2@reddit
welcome.
rv5742@reddit
Assume that your stock options are worthless. Most startups fail. But if you don't have a family, the experience is worth trying. It's a lot harder to do startup stuff later in life.
One thing that's not obvious is that you have a lot of responsibility at a startup, but you don't have a lot of control over the success of the startup. A startup succeeds based on sales or finding elusive market fit. And sometimes no matter how good a technical job you do, those factors end up causing failure.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
As you’ve realized, a “startup inside a corporation” is never actually like a startup at all. These are always more corporate than startup, no matter what management calls it.
I started my career in startups, so I’ve observed a lot of people come from corporate to startup and experience culture shock. Some of the common things I’ve seen shock ex-corporate people: 1) The expectation to be self-sufficient. Corporate life can teach you that everything outside of your narrow job definition is someone else’s problem. At a startup you have to be able to help yourself much of the time. 2) Expectation to be productive right away. At some corporate jobs it takes weeks to get your laptop, months to get oriented, and you’re not expected to contribute for months after that. At a startup you should get your laptop on day 1 and they might have you get right to work without fanfare. If you are the kind of person who wants pristine onboarding docs, gentle orientation, and generous time to get comfortable then startups can be a shock. 3) Tech debt is okay in moderation. In some corporate jobs there are pages of process, policies, and procedures for everything. Questions are answered by committees. Designs aren’t allowed to even start until they’ve been reviewed and critiqued 10 different ways. At a startup it’s better to ship something quickly and see if it works in the market. You have to maintain enough quality that the codebase isn’t a mess, but if you’re obsessed with perfection and refactoring then you’re not going to fit in.
Empanatacion@reddit
"Startup inside a larger company" is the corporate version of "Hello, fellow kids".
Assume the startup won't still exist in two years and that your stock will be worthless. If that works for you, you will learn a ton, the environment is a lot more reality focused with less bureaucracy, and people are in a better mood.
If you don't have a family to support and can roll the dice on unexpectedly needing to look for work, it can be a lot of fun and great for your resume. If you've never done it before, you should try it out. Just go in with your eyes open.
Imaginary-Cupcake328@reddit (OP)
I’m at a position where I can roll the dice and have a good emergency fund if things go wrong, which I would still use if my current job goes down. So I’m prepared for the worst case scenario in either of both jobs
vitormd@reddit
I just did the opposite switch. I've worked 8yrs on a Startup that grew from 13-250 headcount. I did 3yrs as a engineer and 5 as a manager. Just went to a big 2000+ headcount company that is transitioning to focus more on their software portfolio.
People have way less "hats". I have experience with back, front, SRE, data, AI and most people now 1 or 2 things. I'm not really experienced in any of these areas, but I've worked hands on with it all and can have a conversation about pros/cons of solutions.
In the big company, at least this one, they use Teams and it sucks for broader communication. People don't understand the value of horizontal collaboration and sharing knowledge, questions and data to their peers etc.
Process might be elaborated, but not really efficient since they were created with a mind set a of having them and not delivering fast lanes to achieve result.
Things are slow.
I'm cool with all that since I have the mission of improving all that
pydry@reddit
Often more fun, more freedom, less money.
It can also be demoralizing once you hit that stage where you realize that the startup is going nowhere fast.
It will be downright toxic when the ship starts sinking entirely, which to be fair, most do.
"Startup in a big company" <-- Ive very rarely ever seen this one work well.