Pilot in deadly helicopter crash that killed wife and daughter had student license, no medical certificate, report says
Posted by TomyDingo@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 140 comments
flyingron@reddit
The pilot's name was Justin Savant and the aircraft was registered to Savant Aviation LLC, so I'm guessing he was the beneficial owner of it.
CropdustingOMdesk@reddit
Not much of a savant if you ask me
the_jone@reddit
A 2 year-old died. Not really in good taste to make jokes. I don't understand how this is getting upvoted.
lordspidey@reddit
If we couldn't crack jokes about it they'd have died for nothing.
That two year old probably got more helicopter rides than I ever will... lucky lil shit!
RhesusWithASpoon@reddit
Just another toxic subreddit that arbitrarily decides when it's ok to have tasteless humor.
CropdustingOMdesk@reddit
A two year old needlessly died because its father did something extraordinarily stupid and reckless
flyingron@reddit
Idiot savant?
Franks2000inchTV@reddit
Not an idiot savant... He was an idiot Savant.
rapzeh@reddit
I also play Fallout
Mispelled-This@reddit
No, just an idiot.
NYPuppers@reddit
I'm going to guess and assume this probably happens more than the FAA thinks.
Probably an easy thing to enforce since the FAA has a (non-public) registry of the individual members of the LLCs holding these planes and that can be checked against the airman registry. Then start ramp checking the plane after flights and confiscate aircraft in violation. You don't have to catch everyone when the enforcement is real.
d4rkha1f@reddit
If you can afford a helicopter, you can probably afford a large parcel of property and could potentially keep it on your own land. So much for ramp checks.
NYPuppers@reddit
Eh, you don’t have to catch everyone. I think most people do not keep their aircraft at private airstrips, and a simple computer program can be set up to notify a FSDO when one of these aircraft are taking off or landing at an airport. Also can be done by ATC requesting the aircraft to identify the name of the CFI on board.
bzig65@reddit
I'm a zealot about aviation safety, but the thought of the government checking qualifications, on a per flight basis... Not worth the consequences.
NYPuppers@reddit
I sort of hear you but I dont think it's turning your ramp into a police state. I think the number of bad actors is relatively small, the FAA and ADSB data is pretty darn good, and a simple computer program could probably point out pretty quickly which airplanes are statistically being used illegally and solving for that.
Less onerous is just requiring an airman be associated with a plane registration.
WeekendMechanic@reddit
Considering CPDLC has been in use for years at some facilities and not implemented at others should tell you all you need to know about how well the FAA works with new technology.
Staffalopicus@reddit
You’re attributing way more competency to the FAA than any government agency is capable of achieving.
bzig65@reddit
No doubt a system could be designed to be perfect, I'm just jaded and doubt the ability of the federal government to successfully implement this.
ATACB@reddit
lol the Faa can’t even effectively police Boeing right now…. They don’t have the resources to do this. It has really been insurance’s problem for a while
prex10@reddit
Article says it took off from a private airstrip too.
HappyWillmore@reddit
Love a half hour away from pilots hometown. Lots of SWLA flat crop land. Every tract is flat and treeless. Lots of crop duster grass fields too. Doubt he frequented Chenault in lake Charles to take off and land. Would be easy to fly his area un noticed I’d think. Very rural part of the state.
tomdarch@reddit
Different government rules for rich people.
(Same laws of physics though...)
CaptJellico@reddit
The last thing in the world that we need is another excuse for the government to confiscate someone's property without due process. A simple ramp check and the appropriate action against the improperly credentialed airman would be sufficient.
TheLinuxMailman@reddit
The FAA and other government agencies aren't doing enforcement in the next four years unless it affect the profits of rich people with the right connections.
Fit_Homework532@reddit
Sure but then what about legitimate students that buy a plane for their PPL? I think that turns into this situation pretty regularly as well.
twerksforjesus@reddit
If you’re legitimate then you have nothing to worry about ¯_(ツ)_/¯ all endorsements would be legal and up to date.
RexFiller@reddit
And it can be one more negative to add to the conversation when someone posts here about "I'm a zero hour student pilot, should I buy a cirrus sr22t for flight training?"
CoMO-Dog-Poop-Police@reddit
A ramp check wouldn’t find anything wrong given that they should have an instructor with them or a solo endorsement.
soittfire88@reddit
You may be DRAMATICALLY overestimating the funding and staffing available for fixing this kind of "problem"
NYPuppers@reddit
Yeah I frankly don’t know. My assumption is that the number of active aircraft out there without at least one licensed airman or a flight school associated with it is pretty low. I could be wrong.
I don’t know when something becomes a problem worth fixing. Seems to happen a few times a year.
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
I've seen three Feds (two ops inspectors, one of whom gave us an en route inspection, one cabin inspector) in 15 years of airline aviation.
dopexile@reddit
The members who own the aircraft in the LLC may or may not be the operating pilot. Example: most flight school planes are in an LLC.
Robthenub@reddit
Pilots name was Jared
freddie-keith@reddit
I had a CFI tell me once that I could take up passengers while I was a student pilot. "Just rent a 172 and have them sit in the backseat".
I got a new CFI after that.
uglyugly1@reddit
I had one talk me into that when I was young and (really) stupid. He also loved to break the "positive transfer of flight controls" rule. Flew a Beech Sport 180 straight into the runway at about 90 mph on final, because each thought the other was flying and neither of us flared. I'm not sure how we didn't wad it up, but the impact was violent. Our passenger was crying.
That was my last flight with that CFI, his FBO, and I barely restrained myself from laying the fucker out right there.
jayreggy@reddit
I still don’t understand how this happens, I don’t care who’s sitting in the left seat if I’m doing dual given I’m gonna hop on the controls if it looks like they’re gonna beef the landing. It might be a little nudge where I don’t say “my aircraft” but it’s not gonna be nothing
gbchaosmaster@reddit
Like, without an instructor on board? They can ride along in the back during dual if that's what they meant.
Overall-Emphasis-745@reddit
This ain’t Alaska bub
Kevlaars@reddit
The "where" of this story confused the heck out of me.
Read the headline, assumed Alaska.
Started reading, nope, it was Iowa.
Keeps reading, who names their kid Kinder?
Reads more: Wait... so Louisiana? There is a town in Louisiana called Iowa?
Finishes article. So they named their kid Kinder, and took off from a town of the same name?
Franks2000inchTV@reddit
I feel the same way about Ontario, California.
__helix__@reddit
I'm still bitter about the work trip they sent me on to London, Canada.
disfavoyeur@reddit
lol i went there once too. 0/10 do not recommend
Kevlaars@reddit
As someone from the Ontario, Canada. I agree. Especially when people write it Ontario, CA.
phiviator@reddit
"all of Kinder" Meaning they're all from Kinder.
"The helicopter, N62CD, took off from a private property in Kinder around 6:13 p.m., the report says."
Overall-Emphasis-745@reddit
They pronounce it eye-way down in the parish. Very rural, very good people.
As far as FAA enforcement goes, a buddy of mine based out of KMLU said several people reported a flight school owner at DaveAir for putting a lower time prop strike engine in a plane and putting students back up in it, no log entries no IRAN no nothing. He sold the plane to a student and swapped logs I believe on the IA so it looked on the up and up.
FAA asd’s reported it up as enforcement action at which time legal took over.
The flight school and owner are STILL flying to my knowledge. And I’m told the owner is trying for his IA next year
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
If the pilot survived this crash, would he have faced criminal charges and civil lawsuits after he flew with only a student certificate and no medical certificate?
If so, who would be the arresting and prosecuting agency?
This is just completely senseless. Putting his wife and daughter in catastrophic danger he was not trained to handle just because he wanted to show off and save a few minutes driving time going out to a nice restaurant.
radioref@reddit
The US Attorney would be the arresting and prosecuting agency. The enforcement arm of the US attorney is the FBI.
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
The FAA and NTSB does not have arrest powers? Any ability pertaining to law enforcement?
Even the mail has their own special police……
radioref@reddit
Nope, they don't.
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
Do you think that should change? Or do you like the current set up as it is now?
WeekendMechanic@reddit
I work for the FAA, and I can't tell you without a second thought that this administration should not have any sort of authority to arrest someone.
wakeup505@reddit
It's not about what people "like", it's about constitutional rights, criminal versus civil, and avoiding things like a police state. The FAA is both a promotor and regulator, much like the EPA. Imagine these agencies having the power to arrest people - the next time you enter a traffic pattern the wrong way, jail time!
imedic689@reddit
Ahem - EPA criminal enforcement special agents
I think you’d be surprised how many US Federal Agencies have special agents
wakeup505@reddit
Right, but they don't just go walking around like your every-day police officer arresting people.
StPauliBoi@reddit
“We have the best pilots, because of jail”
lil_layne@reddit
Lol you are really asking a subreddit full of pilots if they think the FAA should have arrest powers?
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
That explains the downvotes lol.
StPauliBoi@reddit
lol not even a little bit
MTBandGravel@reddit
No, the FAA should remain administrative.
mkosmo@reddit
No, it should not change. Not every administrative entity need police powers.
radioref@reddit
🤷🏻♂️
jumperbro@reddit
And Amtrak, and schools, and some hospitals. But I guess each of those entities all have physical land jurisdiction where the FAA really doesn't.
Mispelled-This@reddit
Amtrak is a railroad, and all railroads are authorized to create their own police depts (with nationwide jurisdiction) by federal law. And there is decent justification for that given their geographical reach.
IMHO, the same argument doesn’t apply to schools, colleges, hospitals, airports, transit agencies, etc. that have gotten (state) authority to create their own police depts too. Let them contract with local LEAs if they want extra coverage.
pappogeomys@reddit
FAA is regulatory, NTSB is investigative; neither are low-enforcement agencies. Don't worry, everyone at least gets sued in these cases, that's part of the high cost of aviation since the 80s
JasperinWaynesville@reddit
"The FAA and NTSB does not have arrest powers?"
No.
TobyADev@reddit
If we’re assuming his wife and daughter still died then absolutely probably for manslaughter or murder. Absolutely deserved.
If they all survived and if they all landed safely by some miracle, unharmed then idk, but I’d hope the FAA would go after him
MT0761@reddit
Has something changed since I was a student pilot? When I was learning, your medical certificate WAS your student license. Is there something else that's issued, or was his medical expired?
Mispelled-This@reddit
That changed in 2016.
ltcterry@reddit
Students have plastic cards now like everyone else.
merebat@reddit
Anyone can get a student pilot certificate now, you just need an instructor to fill out the paperwork on IACRA
DannyRickyBobby@reddit
Yes it’s changed. they are seperate
lil_layne@reddit
I already answered your same question in a different thread
AutomaticClick1387@reddit
Reminds me of the Wichita Falls guy that couldn’t get a medical, had anger and addiction problems, bought a Malibu, and then killed himself and his wife in it after flying into a thunderstorm.
JasperinWaynesville@reddit
The NTSB's preliminary report can be found here:
https://verticalavi.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Report_CEN25FA034_195427_11_20_2024-3_33_47-AM-1.pdf
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
And Savant also has a history of giving family and friends flights like this.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1162724451754794
Damn shame he didn’t have a pilot buddy that caught onto what he was doing and then reported him to the FAA. If that happened, that poor woman and her beautiful little girl would be alive today.
WithAnAitchDammit@reddit
Wait a second. I’m admittedly not a rotary wing pilot, but the passenger is in the right seat. I thought rotary wing PIC sat on the right side?
NYPuppers@reddit
Definitely not blessing folks missing an annual state filing, but these state filings are typically pro forma for single member LLCs that have no business revenue/operations and are kind of a bullshit tax expense in such instances… definitely speaks to antiauthority attitude but I wouldn’t commingle what amounts to a late parking ticket with something like flying without a license.
Huth_S0lo@reddit
If you dont have your license within 130 hours of flight time, there is a reason.
TobyADev@reddit
A reason yes but it doesn’t make you bad. Could be a bad instructor
Huth_S0lo@reddit
No it would make you bad.
TobyADev@reddit
Hardly. There’s many people we see on this sub, on Facebook and wherever who have over 100 hours, they then pass their check ride or skills test and go on to become good pilots
Short sighted of you to say that
Huth_S0lo@reddit
And?
If you’re not qualified to fly, you’re not qualified to fly. So if you go ahead and fly while you’re unqualified, you’re obviously not a good pilot. Doesn’t matter if your instructor is shit. You’d be a product of your shit instructor.
TobyADev@reddit
Oh my bad, absolutely yeah if you’re not qualified you’d be crazy to fly, and yeah if you fly when unqualified you’re a bad pilot
Sorry I thought you meant if you qualify after 100 hours you’re still bad…
Huth_S0lo@reddit
Bro, I wouldn’t ever feel comfortable flying with someone who didn’t solo at 100 hours in.
acesup1090@reddit
Took me 100+ hours to solo. Am I automatically a bad pilot now?
Huth_S0lo@reddit
Maybe. Bad Instructor? Definitely.
TobyADev@reddit
Another thing to consider is if he didn’t do this flight, I bet he wouldn’t have even been caught flying on his own or with passengers regardless..
Brendon7358@reddit
Who owned the helicopter? If he was renting I would imagine some responsibility would fall on whoever let him take it. I suspect this wasn’t the first time he did this and I wonder if his flight instructor was aware of it
TobyADev@reddit
Wasn’t the first time. Someone posted a link of them flying their family on Facebook above
hardyboyyz@reddit
He owned it.
TobyADev@reddit
Oh my god that’s awful
saxmanB737@reddit
Wasn’t there a similar story with a student pilot taking his wife on a long cross country and crashed while getting into a storm? This is the second or third time I’ve heard an unqualified student going up within the last year and killing themselves and others.
joshsafc9395@reddit
Out in vegas i think. Solo is one thing but I can not comprehend taking your wife and young child with you knowing you aren’t qualified. Crazy
jimrooney@reddit
Wealth amplifies arrogance. You live in a world where people don't tell you no. So much so that you stop telling yourself no.
dkmy1@reddit
It’s not quite this, in my opinion. It’s that to build wealth you have to push through “no” and get to “yes”. It’s a mindset that everything is negotiable, and everything can be within reach.
Most people are able to squelch desire and follow the rules, even very wealthy folks. Some though, because of personality disorder or other unknown reasons can’t, and some of those end up like this. Very sad. 😔
FrankThePilot@reddit
Hazardous attitudes has entered the chat.
Fit_Homework532@reddit
Seriously, I didn't take my wife up for a long time after I got my PPL because I didn't feel comfortable yet with passengers. I can't imagine putting my family at risk like that. Machoism on display, maybe anti-autoritary as well.
CoomassieBlue@reddit
I went up with my husband (then fiancé) I think on his second lesson - but that was with a CFI at the controls, we don’t have kids, and was more of a courtesy nod to the fact that I funded his PPL.
RSquared787@reddit
Happened to a former high school classmate a few weeks ago—he was flying from his home in Georgia to visit family in Illinois and was killed after a refueling stop (in TN I think).
Was shocked to see in the preliminary report that he was a student pilot. Clearly way off the reservation attempting an 800-mile cross country at night, and now his two kids have to grow up without their dad.
glassboxecology@reddit
Yeah this was a Canadian guy, killed himself, his wife, and 3 young children: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/5-canadians-killed-in-nashville-plane-crash-identified-as-family-from-king-township-ont-1.6797175
He was using a plane from his flying club.
Maadmin@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSS7Wnmmurc
Own-Ice5231@reddit
There was one not too long ago with a student pilot and his girlfriend taking up a flight in IMC at night, and you probably can figure out the rest.
NoBravoClearance@reddit
Even around my local airport I’ve seen student pilots think they can ferry there airplane. Technically a cross country since it was an hour flight and this dudes barely done his first solo.
Not the first time either sadly. It’s just people who over estimate abilities and think nothing will happen
Paranoma@reddit
F this piece of excrement for putting his family at risk like this. Arrogant sack of garbage.
bushy496@reddit
The engine blew. Nothing a license could do to stop that.
Paranoma@reddit
How do you know that? Besides the point that a competent pilot may have made better choices to prevent this being the outcome of an engine failure.
MetalXMachine@reddit
And maybe a certified pilot would have been operating in a profile which allowed them to safely autorotate to the ground as they were trained to.
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
One more question for this sub…..
Does the instructor, flight school personnel or any pilot have any legal obligation to report a student if they suspect unauthorized flights are occurring or occurring with cargo/passengers the student is not permitted to carry?
Gibbie42@reddit
He flew them to restaurant? I put all this into Google maps. It's a 30 minute drive from Kinder to the restaurant. He killed himself and his family because he needed to show off how rich he was? Because he needed to be cool?
rotorcraftjockie@reddit
Reads like spatial disorientation, so sad and unavoidable. I wonder if cocktails were involved from the restaurant.
bushy496@reddit
Didn’t drink
NoCardiologist6736@reddit
Murdered his family over nothing
bushy496@reddit
The man that pulled them out was watching them. Said the engine made a noise. Chopper turned towards a security light by the highway to attempt to land but then the engine totally went out and it went into free fall.
The anual had just been completed.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Did the wife just not ask questions? My wife asked me about the basic rules of me flying right when I started lessons. She knew damn well it wasn't legal, and a horrible idea, to fly a passenger on a Student License.
I've convinced her of a lot of foolish things (like buying two planes) but there is zero chance she'd have gotten in our plane with me when I was still a Student.
Based on a linked FB video, this wasn't the first time this couple had flown together.
Shame on them both. The only innocent person in this was the child.
na85@reddit
Maybe she did ask, and he lied to her. Seems pretty fucked-up to blame the passenger.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
He lied about passing his check ride? A major event in a pilots career? Didn't look at his shiny new cert?
A wife isn't a random friend off the street. My wife is my best friend, partner, confidant, and trusted voice. At least not in my household.
Seems insane to think "oh she just didn't know or trusted him"
So yes, I think the wife is fairly responsible in this, if anything an enabler. And obviously Jared the pilot is massively responsible also
vanillanuttapped@reddit
You're assuming this was a major milestone to him and not just another expensive toy and hobby.
My experience, when I was instructing, was that the hobbyist students that had the money to buy their own airplanes up front were the absolute worst ones to work with. They were the hardest ones to convince to take it seriously. They didn't want to study. They didn't want to learn the rules. They just wanted to take up an airplane the same way they would take out their boat or their motorcycle.
It wasn't all of my airplane owning students and I have no idea what this guy's story was but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he simply had zero interest in doing it the right way and figured once he had soloed, he knew enough to simply do his own thing. Maybe his wife questioned it, maybe she didn't. If she knew nothing about flying she may not have even had the basic knowledge to form the questions to ask. Dear hubby said it was fine and like a good Stepford wife, she went along with it.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Agreed.
na85@reddit
"I did a thing, therefore everyone else must also do that thing and feel the same way about that thing as me"
To you.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
Yeah, to me.
This is an online forum where we share personal opinions, stories, perspectives, and viewpoints. Shocking.
Maybe someone, like a spouse, will read this one day and say "Hrmmm, maybe I should ask more questions"
Cheers!
smoores02@reddit
What a selfish person.
Autoslats@reddit
Tale as old as time. Years ago, I worked at a small town FBO and watched “student pilots” do this kind of thing frequently.
run264fun@reddit
130+ hours of training and he doesn’t have a medical.
I highly doubt this is the first time he’s pulled something like this. Maybe it’s his first night flight without the instructor, but definitely not the first time he’s “soloed” while carrying passengers as a student.
If he’s not the owner of the helicopter, which ever school renting this should be investigated
BlacklightsNBass@reddit
He was the owner. Owned a used car dealership. And can confirm not his first flight with passengers. Another wealthy asshole who thought he could do what he wanted and his poor wife and sweet baby girl paid the price.
run264fun@reddit
Ugh. That’s brutal.
VanillaCokeisthebest@reddit
Since his bloodline is eliminated is he eligible for darwins award?
guestquest88@reddit
Guys, isn't the medical also a student pilot cert all in one? I couldn't solo without a medical. Did something change?
Fuck that guy. Poor kid. 2 years old. If you gonna do stupid shit do it alone.
Germainshalhope@reddit
No. It's a seperate certificate. So maybe he just hadn't soloed yet.
Germainshalhope@reddit
Wow they should bring him back to life just so he can suffer how stupid he was.
High_Flyin89@reddit
What a POS. If you want to off yourself go for it, but to take your wife and 2 year old with you?
CryptographerRare793@reddit
Man, flying around by yourself on your student pilot cert, no medical and probably without a solo endorsement is one thing. Wrapping your wife and kid into irresponsible behavior is on the level of the CFI who took his student into a t-storm.
Norfolt@reddit
Well said.
CharacterNebula9787@reddit
Breaks my heart to see a 2 yo in it. I so wish family was spared with a scare and warning.
ap2patrick@reddit
My whole family wanted so bad for me to take them up after I got my PPL and needless to say stories like this haunted me and never did it. I just couldn’t live with myself (irony because I’d be dead) if I took a family member with me because of my lack of experience…
Meow-zelTov@reddit
Reminds me of JFK Jr. The ego is ridiculous.
dylan_hawley@reddit
Prime example of how to get killed in this field.
Inevitable_Street458@reddit
The news article just lost some credibility: "The helicopter flew southeast and climbed to 800 feet mean sea level." I'm pretty sure that track shows NorthEast.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
seems pretty likely that spatial disorientation played a part based on ADSB track, no? especially considering nov 1st had essentially zero moon.
extremely unfortunate. wonder why a guy who owns a helicopter (likely owned, at least, based on other comments here) didn't have a medical - was it for good reason, or stupid reason?
flyingron@reddit
Hogg, get away from that thing.
PK808370@reddit
Amazing that fucker lived!!