Pilot in deadly helicopter crash that killed wife and daughter had student license, no medical certificate, report says
Posted by TomyDingo@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 120 comments
JustAcleanAccount@reddit
Imagine killing yourself, daughter, and wife by accident because you had a big ego and wanted to show off
AffreuxPatyLex@reddit
It unfortunately happens far too often. Some idiot with more money than brains thinks he's hot shit because he's got his solo endorsement on an aircraft way more advanced than they should be training on.
A few years ago, similar mindset, Mr. Moneybags buys himself a Lancair. High performance, complex gear. His first clue should have been that it took five separate CFIs telling him that they won't train him because it's foolish. He finally found someone dumb enough to do it. Got his solo endorsement, loaded up his mother, got into IMC in Louisiana or Mississippi or something, hit the ground with a 2000 foot decent rate. When I saw the photos, I wouldn't have even known it was an airplane unless I was told.
Hangman4358@reddit
Doesn't even have to be inexperienced pilots. My friend and 2 buddies were flying cross country. All 3 naval aviators, F14s. 2 of them now legacy wide body pilots and the other was a flight and aerobatics instructor. All had tens of thousands of hours under their belt.
The three were doing formation flying and debriefed separation at the point where they would head home to their respective fields.
My friend is flying lead. The third guy separates per brief and heads home. A couple of minutes later, the second one pulls an audible, then proceeds to do God knows what and causes a mid-air collision between him and my friend as they were supposed to separate. My friend says he was expecting him off his right wing, and somehow, the impact is on the left wing?
My friend is able to land on a road and walk away. Later, he says he has no clue how the plane was still flying with the damage it has from the impact.
The other guy, the aerobatics instructor who pulled the audible, smashed into the ground.
The two are grieving their friend but also pissed he totally went off script. Guy thought he was hot shit and took himself out, and he almost took out his friend in the process.
Kotukunui@reddit
What does “pulls an audible” mean? I’m not familiar with that term.
BugSTi@reddit
Changes the already agreed upon plan, on the fly (pardon the pun).
recitegod@reddit
But aren't they using model plane to explain who is who for a formation prior the flight?
houseswappa@reddit
god damn
poemdirection@reddit
I was trying to find the report and there's dozens of them that all sound like pilot error.
Is the lancair the "doctor killer" of this generation?!
cluehq@reddit
happens more than you think
boi_skelly@reddit
A unforgiving, high performance airframe within reach of busy professionals? To a certain extent, lancair's saving grace is being kit planes, most doctors don't have time to build an airplane, but you can always buy used.
DrS7ayer@reddit
Doctor here. Can confirm, no time to build a Lancair, have to stick with my 182T for the foreseeable future. We can’t afford a cirrus anymore, too many cuts in healthcare.
seeking_hope@reddit
I think I know who this was. He had a massive mansion and arena built that was under construction for ages. There was a helipad at the house. Right after the house was finished, he died in a helicopter crash on his way back home from Louisiana.
TimeSpacePilot@reddit
If he had no medical he didn’t have a legal solo endorsement.
dnen@reddit
I think he’s talking about a different situation where the pilot was even dumber, apparently not even having a student license?
TimeSpacePilot@reddit
I see him talking about a student that got a solo endorsement in a Lancair and died in a crash.
I was talking about someone who had no medical so he would not have had a legal solo endorsement even if he had been given one.
Both of these pilots had passengers with them which isn’t legal without an actual license.
I don’t see anyone taking about a pilot that had no student license at all 🤷🏼♂️
NapsInNaples@reddit
wasn't this the guy who had a criminal record including multiple DUIs and some kind of fraud as well?
Trubester88@reddit
That was a dude flying to Las Vegas. Loaded up his wife and died between Texas and Las Vegas.
AugustusKhan@reddit
A Kennedy?
AwarenessPotentially@reddit
No, but he was an idiot Savant. I'll see myself out....
TurnsOutImAScientist@reddit
At least from my youtube experience I get the impression that almost anytime someone crashes not during takeoff or landing, it's a VFR-only pilot flying into IMC and getting disoriented and/or getting tossed around by weather.
old_graag@reddit
Just fyi 2000 feet per minute is about 23 mph. It's not that fast. However, when combined with a couple hundred knots of forward airspeed, it adds up.
Newportsandbuttstuff@reddit
JFK jr
Totally_Not_A_Bot_FR@reddit
FTFY
-Badger3-@reddit
Accidents are caused by negligence. They're not mutually exclusive.
Joeness84@reddit
Oceangate has depressurized before entering the chat
PlaneLiterature2135@reddit
Sounds like candidate for a Darwin Award
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards
DDX1837@reddit
This guy wouldn't technically qualify since he's already procreated. But since he took his daughter out of the gene pool, I guess he's still eligible.
maracay1999@reddit
I found the wife's facebook and it seems they're from a very rural/religious area. Half the recent comments reference "God's plan".
Like damn, I know this is morbid, but do any of them know the real story? Even if you're religious, how can you rationalize this guy making a horrible family-annihilating decision that killed his wife and daughter due to his own ego and ignorance "god's plan".
Damn. Like if this actually was god's plan, I get why we're supposed to fear him. God's fucking ruthless.
Mouseturdsinmyhelmet@reddit
I used to fly for a very demanding air freight company in the southeast US. The god is my co-pilot types were always the first to drop out, followed closely by the prima donnas.
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BillOfArimathea@reddit
The "just-world fallacy" is incredibly powerful for those who really need to believe a god is in control.
Yoojine@reddit
JFK Jr?
Kobe obviously wasn't at the controls but it was quite clear from the report that the pilot was facing pressure from their clients to take off despite bad conditions.
CountVanderdonk@reddit
Absolutely false. Every pilot who flew for Kobe said he respected their decisions and never once pressured them. One pilot said "Kobe was a professional and he respected me as a professional."
The NTSB report said the pilot suffered from "self induced pressure" but not from Kobe.
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2021/02/10/ntsb-says-pilots-poor-decisions-led-helicopter-crash-killing-kobe-bryant/
Yoojine@reddit
Yep I'm wrong. I'll remove the example.
VirtualPlate8451@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/@pilot-debrief
There are a LOT of cases like this. Mostly regionally rich guys who think their financial success proves they are smarter than the general public that the rules are made for.
You might need dozens of instructor hours but I'll only need like half that and I'll be fine, I learn quick.
Kaiisim@reddit
"Don't worry it'll be fine!!!"
seneca128@reddit
Makes me wonder why I'm single yet this aashat is able to actually get a wife who trusted him. Guaranteed maga
MilesofRose@reddit
You sound lonely.
menos08642@reddit
Just checked out the pilot's public facebook page. Apparently he had a habit of giving his friends and family rides in his helicopter. https://www.facebook.com/reel/1162724451754794
radi0raheem@reddit
Jesus. There's lots of posts from him and others that he's tagged in flying solo each time. And the wife posted a congratulations for his first solo sometime in March, I think? I had to stop when I got to the pic of their kid with the helicopter in the air in the background.
maracay1999@reddit
I found the wife's facebook and it seems they're from a very rural/religious area. Most of the recent comments reference "God's plan".
Like damn, I know this is morbid, but do any of them know the real story? Even if you're religious, how can you rationalize this guy making a horrible family-annihilating decision that killed his wife and daughter due to his own ego and ignorance "god's plan".
Damn. Like if this actually was god's plan, I get why we're supposed to fear him. God's fucking ruthless.
I can rationalize "clockmaker" god way easier than "god is responsible for literally everything that happens" god.
Skydance98@reddit
One of the scariest pilots I know is very religious. He doesn’t preflight, he skims low over the trees for the entire flight, he feels like he’s good because it is in God’s hands
Spare-Molasses8190@reddit
God’s hands about to be the trees that catch him.
Crash_Test_Dummy66@reddit
Well maybe God's Plan is to cleanse the earth of idiots?
dmtangen@reddit
That was evolution’s plan and then we invented warning labels.
imgonnawingit@reddit
We have the free will to deviate from God's plan and do catastrophically stupid or down right evil stuff because without free will love cannot exist.
OrbitalArtillery2082@reddit
They know and they don’t care. Look at all their posts and you catch that “fuck it we ball” attitude big time.
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
Damn shame he didn’t have a pilot buddy that caught onto what he was doing and then reported him to the FAA. If that happened, that poor woman and her beautiful little girl would be alive today.
backintheussr3@reddit
Poor woman? It was her husband.. she married him and had a kid with him. She wasn’t forced to. Poor kid indeed, though.
imgonnawingit@reddit
Victim blaming much?
GreatScottGatsby@reddit
It isn't alright to blame the victim but there is varying degrees of fault. She absolutely knew that he wasn't certified to fly but thought it was okay because she was married to the guy. This is unfortunately is the definition of natural selection, for both of them.
Consistent-Trick2987@reddit
Not necessarily. A lot of people don’t realize you’re allowed to fly solo (with an endorsement) without having a license. I had lots of people texting me “congrats on getting your license!” when I posted about flying solo for the first time.
dmtangen@reddit
Good chance he told her that he was cleared to fly on his own. Good chance she thought he was good to fly that night. I can’t fault a woman for trusting her husband, especially if she has limited aviation knowledge. Wouldn’t fault any spouse for trusting their spouse with not only their’s, but their child’s life.
Porkyrogue@reddit
What was that noise like a vibration in his first video?
guitar_joe74@reddit
Ego is one hell of a thing...
verstohlen@reddit
Lego my ego. Damn, now I want some waffles.
gatorav8r@reddit
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1998/07/08/two-military-wives-killed-in-crash-of-black-hawk-helicopter/22b4458d-7963-44ac-8f90-82b11779f1b1/
Express_Profile_4432@reddit
This was 26 years ago.
not__ok_computer@reddit
This is so sad and also fuck that guy
wddiver@reddit
Is helicopter licensing like plane licensing? Airplane pilots have to meet certain requirements to fly at night. What are the requirements for helicopter night flying? Not that it makes a difference, really; he wasn't qualified to have passengers.
Spiderkeegan@reddit
~~Who the hell named a town in Louisiana "Iowa", had me really confused~~
But really, tragic story. A somber reminder for every other airman to know and understand their limits, and keep their ego in check.
Wild-Exit6171@reddit
So he wasn’t a pilot
fishbedc@reddit
I never understood the "The amount of people I offended is hilarious" trope.
I mean that's the personality you want to project? Interesting.
Actual-Money7868@reddit
If you're controlling the aircraft you're a pilot, sameway you can be a driver in a car crash in though you don't have a license.
Wild-Exit6171@reddit
Sounds good buddy. I only fly airliners for a living. I thought I knew a thing or two. What id next, Drone operators are pilots too? Man, I am gonna buy an RC car and call myself a nascar driver
Telepornographer@reddit
Yes, drone operators are pilots. Even the FAA refers to them as such: https://www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/become_a_drone_pilot
FoundationJunior5647@reddit
When you were a student and got your solo certificate, did you log PIC time while soloing? What does the P in PIC stand for?
Horat1us_UA@reddit
I mean… yes. My friend is serving at army flying drones and he is officially “drone pilot”
Actual-Money7868@reddit
What condescending bullshit. If he was in charge of the aircraft he was the pilot, doesn't mean he was qualified.
And you're stupid comparisons don't even make sense
thorGOT@reddit
I love how every single thread in r/aviation descends into this sort of willy-waving at some point.
Civsi@reddit
I suppose your pilot training didn't cover being able to google the defenituon of a word. Don't worry though, I google shit for a living so I can help you out here.
bozoconnors@reddit
He was.
Had passengers though. Big no no.
Hermit_Bottle@reddit
He was. He flew the chopper, right? What would you call him a passenger?
Wild-Exit6171@reddit
Regular person decided to play pilot when not one and killed his entire family
IcestormsEd@reddit
I thought the same thing. Should read 'Student piloting the helicopter....'
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
One more question for this sub…..
Does the instructor, flight school personnel or any pilot have any legal obligation to report a student if they suspect unauthorized flights are occurring or occurring with cargo/passengers the student is not permitted to carry?
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
If the pilot survived this crash, would he have faced criminal charges and civil lawsuits after he flew with only a student certificate and no medical certificate?
I believe it would be warranted as the pilot was completely reckless and arrogant. At night in questionable weather. He put his family in catastrophic danger.
At the minimum, there would be no chance of ever being allowed to fly an aircraft ever again.
Just completely senseless and so preventable. All to save 30 minutes on driving out to a nice restaurant.
throwaway642246@reddit
Yes absolutely.
As a student pilot, before you earn your private pilot certificate AND the ability to carry passengers, it is hammered into you at all times that carrying passengers is prohibited.
TomyDingo@reddit (OP)
Who would be the arresting/prosecuting agency? Does the NTSB and FAA have law enforcement powers/personnel that would arrest the pilot? Or is it FBI?
throwaway642246@reddit
These are all great answers.
There was a similar incident a few years ago and you can read about it here:
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/01/fatal-accident-occurred-january-13-2019_14.html
A student pilot was flying a plane owned by his girlfriend and it seems as though he left the fuel caps off of both tanks, took off, the plane became fuel starved, and then they crash landed off airport.
The girlfriend died, he survived, and he evaded authorities until he was caught four years later during a routine traffic stop and he is still in prison if I remember correctly.
lil_layne@reddit
The NTSB investigates what happens in a plan crash but they do not prosecute criminal charges. The FAA can fine people and take away licenses but they also can’t prosecute criminal charges. These cases are always handed off FBI or local law enforcement to prosecute but the NTSB does most of the investigation for them because they really are the only agency who knows how to investigate plane crashes.
Boring-Eggplant-6303@reddit
NTSB does not support criminal prosecutions. They do not assign blame to parties involved. Thier mission is only to give probable cause and recommendations on prevention.
The NTSB reports can also have bias and cannot always be taken as fact due too assumptions made during investigations. The reports aren't typically used as evidence in trials.
FBI/DOJ will hire expert witnesses and outside consultants to perform thier own fact finding exercises.
mrshulgin@reddit
Portions of NTSB reports may be admitted as evidence (your results may vary).
https://www.tkklaw.com/news-publications/what-s-new-treatment-of-ntsb-reports-and-underlying-findings
https://www.cshlaw.com/resources/what-information-from-an-ntsb-report-is-admissible-evidence-in-court/
PigletHeavy9419@reddit
JAG
/s
PanPenguinGirl@reddit
Also a student pilot, granted for fixed wing, and can concur. But I can only image that that is even more so the case with rotorcraft😭
That and constant talk about the checkride and how stressful they can be, and how your instructor will only sign you off if they know damn well you know what you're doing. Licenses are a big thing and not one to play around with.
BloodyDress@reddit
I let that here :
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/181hxl2/french_pilot_sentenced_for_decapitating_skydiver/
Even though US has different law than France, I would expect that US do have Negligent manslaughter in their criminal code, and that the lack of licence + medical is a negligence
Telepornographer@reddit
Yes it exists, though it's usually called "involuntary manslaughter".
PutOptions@reddit
Certainly civil lawsuits. Also, any insurance coverage would be null as well. IDK about criminal liability or prosecution.
jared_number_two@reddit
If the other people had died, probably. If there were no injuries, maybe no criminal charges. If there was no crash there would likely be no criminal charges.
On the civil side he could get fined and/or barred no matter what happens.
InsertUsernameInArse@reddit
Mr moneybags had no licence at 139hrs?? And 15hrs at night??
Totally_Not_A_Bot_FR@reddit
Hoover should have a field day with this one on Pilot Debrief
FunkyBackplane@reddit
100+ hours of flight time and no medical? I’m gonna assume this dude had a medical disqualification he knew about and knew he’d never make the full license. Probably wanted to show his skills to his family just one time and boy was that a mistake. How tragic.
viccityguy2k@reddit
I’m sure he had zero alcohol at his two hour dinner too.
NewSinner_2021@reddit
I was thinking about this.
Magnet50@reddit
This was my first thought, after I saw that he been to a restaurant for about 2 hours. Be interesting to see his bill and talk to the waitstaff.
thesuperunknown@reddit
I wouldn’t rule alcohol out. But considering that he was a low-time student pilot flying at night without IFR training, the flight track suggests that this was probably a case of CFIT due to sensory disorientation, aka “the leans”.
From the ASN accident summary:
SeeMarkFly@reddit
He did get to show his skills...one time.
_Abe_Froman_SKOC@reddit
Either they owned the helicopter before they finished flight school or someone rented it to them when they shouldn't have.
Devastating for the family.
MrRobotoWithASecret@reddit
Yeah he owned it. The helicopter was registered under SAVANT AVIATION LLC. The pilot was Jared Savant.
ThaddeusJP@reddit
oh man his FB and insta are out there and the chopper is featured on both. Oof.
2010_12_24@reddit
Idiot Savant
Porkyrogue@reddit
Not a savant, after all.....
flyboy_1285@reddit
He had to have owned it. No way a flight school would have allowed him to fly it without an instructor.
rasmorak@reddit
Hmm. Guess he wasn't a Savant after all?
jtshinn@reddit
139 hours and still a student?! Guy must have been a tough learner.
psilocyan@reddit
He didn't have a medical so he probably either knew he was never going to get one because of some current/historical medical condition, or he just kept flying like a MFer while waiting to get it issued. Buddy of mine who had to do the whole special issuance or whatever for a high school ADHD diagnosis is still waiting like 15 months later.
Monster_Voice@reddit
That's the pathetic part about the FAA... the "medical" disqualifications for medications are just absurd and not supported by the medical community, but here we are.
MarthaFletcher@reddit
Idiot savant?
FrankLloydWrong_3305@reddit
How many drinks do we think he had at dinner?
O/U 2.5.
I'll take the over.
spiritual_delinquent@reddit
When I read they stopped for 1.5 hour dinner before the crash I was like yeah, Louisiana…
yeswenarcan@reddit
Now I wonder if Louisiana's to-go drink laws apply to aircraft.
radioref@reddit
The interesting thing is that I bet you they'll talk to the folks at Pat's and they'll know exactly how many drinks he had as part of the investigation
sweeptheleg_07@reddit
Agreed. Guy lands next to a restaurant at 630p then departs again just before 9p. Will be an absolute shame if we hear he was taking on drinks that night.
Mr-cacahead@reddit
134 hours of TT and no SOLO....It adds up
burningtowns@reddit
Can’t solo in anything without a medical, so there’s that.
burningtowns@reddit
This man did not think of his decisions reading like an NTSB report.
Maximus13@reddit
Careless.
He owned the helicopter and judging from some of the FB comments, he had taken other people on it as well, Flying just above the water in some rivers, below the treeline.
It was only a matter of time, and unfortunately, he took his wife and child with him.
ericcartmanforreal@reddit
He just pulled a Kobe
TemporaryRegion0@reddit
Damn that’s sad.