[Throttlehouse] BMW M5 vs Audi RS7 vs Mercedes-AMG E63 S

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dangermouse13@reddit

The horrid thing is there’s 3 V8’s there going full throttle and there’s barely any sound from all 3

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andrewjaekim@reddit

BMW horsepower really is different than regular horsepower.

When the M5 Touring comes to the states I think it’s going to be the one to get.

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lique_madique@reddit

BMW weight and design are also different from regular weight and design

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Forget the BMW. Look at the Audi. The RS7 is nearly 5000 pounds with no hybrid assistance whatsoever. It's several hundred pounds heavier than the M8 gran coupe, non-hybrid Panamera, and non-hybrid AMG GT 4 door, which are its direct competitors in the "4 door grand tourer/4 door coupe/executive fastback sedan" segment.

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lique_madique@reddit

And yet it still gets eclipsed by the new M5 in terms of bloat. All cars need to be lighter.

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IlIlIlIlIl241l23lIlI@reddit

Why? I know on the internet, people whine about weight a lot, but why does it matter for a big ass saloon car? Does the M5 feel too heavy when pushed, does the weight make the car perform worst than the previous M5? No and No. You guys whine just to whine at this point.

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HailOfHarpoons@reddit

Destroys roads, destroys brakes and for the people who don't care about others it also destroys tires.

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srbmfodder@reddit

Why would I buy an m5 instead of an m3 or something smaller if weight was what I was worried about is my question. I must be getting old, because I like the m5 and would definitely be happy plugging it in for around the town electric go. I had an OG Chevy Volt and about half my miles were on electric.

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

The m5 is cheaper in many European countries because it's a phev.

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srbmfodder@reddit

Government incentives?

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

Yup

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srbmfodder@reddit

Cool. I’d still buy one

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strongmanass@reddit

The arguments against are a combination of disingenuously and opportunistically presented factual information that happens to support lighter cars, like road damage and tire particulates (the people making those arguments don't care one bit about either of those things and they certainly don't care about tire particulates when doing big skids and drifts); and genuine practical consideration like the effect of weight on tire and brake lifetime and stopping distances.

But mostly it's just due to them preferring lighter cars because they're nimbler, which is itself an opinion largely copied from journalists and reviewers. Internet enthusiasts all make themselves sound like the combination of Sébastien Loeb and Michael Schumacher, but unless they work from home or commute via public transit, most enthusiasts spend most of their driving time in traffic just like everyone else. Internet car hobbyism is fantasy for the most part, so most people dream about the ideal use case of a car and fundamentally ignore the realities of using one on the road. More than ever, in recent years car enthusiasts have been vocally against car industry trends because they realize they're an ever-decreasing market segment.

TL;DR: people like to fantasize and don't like that manufacturers build cars for other road users who don't fantasize about the perfect empty canyon road every time they get in the car.

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strongmanass@reddit

The M5 is a PHEV with a V8 and 40 miles of electric range. Of course it's heavy. So is every other V8 PHEV with decent electric range, like the AMG GT 4 door they raced later in the video. Or the Panamera SE hybrid. Or the Bentley Continental GT. V8 PHVs are heavy.

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DepthHour1669@reddit

That’s a terrible excuse though. The 330e is only 300 lbs heavier than the 330i. Where the hell did the 1000 lbs come from for the new M5 vs the old M5?

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strongmanass@reddit

The M5 battery weighs 882 pounds to the 330e's 330 pounds. In both cases it sounds like the batteries are responsible for the weight difference.

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zValier@reddit

Yeah my biggest takeaway from this video was how heavy the Audi was. And apparently the next gen RS6/7 might be a hybrid.

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RacerKaiser@reddit

A while back this segment of cars was described to me as

audi= autobahn cruiser, bmw =handling Merc=muscle car/hooligan

I suspect, the people who buy the rs7 care even less about the weight than the people who buy the m5, which is already a pretty small percentage.

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kmj442@reddit

The new s5 weight was just reported on motor1 at 4300lbs for a non hybrid variant.

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gor134@reddit

new S5 has a complex mild hybrid, and is reported to weigh ~150-200lbs less for the US without that system

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lique_madique@reddit

That and the C63 hybrid are fat pigs as well unfortunately

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GeneraIDisarray@reddit

It does sound pretty awful though, no grunt to it at all in stock form at least.

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shartsmell@reddit

Lol, then get a dodge and rev it all day. You will win on sound

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Oni_K@reddit

I said exactly that when I test drove a Mustang. Great at turning gas into noise and giggles, but it just didn't feel fast despite similar numbers to my BMW.

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shartsmell@reddit

Lol, go buy a dodge

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vw18t@reddit

Everyone complaining about the M5 being a plug in hybrid just wait the next generation E63 AMG is gonna be a PHEV same with the next gen RS6/RS7

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gor134@reddit

E63 was cancelled for the next-gen.. but with new AMG Boss it's possibly we might see one with the facelift of the E Class.

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DepthHour1669@reddit

The new CLE63 exists, so they’ll probably still stuff the V8 into an E63

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Next_Necessary_8794@reddit

E63 will probably have a 4 cylinder too. lol.

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Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)

Also surprising how close the M5 was to the GT63s given the price delta. $75k more should give you far more than just that small difference in acceleration.

You could get an M5, and a highly optioned out M2.

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clownpirate@reddit

A chunk of the price on the GT63 is for its semi-exoticness and the larger amount of fuckyous is radiates.

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DepthHour1669@reddit

It’s a CLA shaped egg on an E-class chassis. The only reason it has any exoticness is because it shares part of its name with the 2 door AMG GT on a different platform.

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Whatcanyado420@reddit

You don’t understand OP. M5 doesn’t have the same soul

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Bonerchill@reddit

Anyone who mentions soul about any of these barges thinks insert chain restaurant provides delicious home-cooked flavor just like insert parent or grandparent’s nickname used to make.

Slogan^TM!

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HighClassProletariat@reddit

Jagoffs on the internet: This executive-sized super sedan is too heavy! It will never drive well on the track and be responsive at that weight! That's why I'd never buy one! What a shit car!

Meanwhile super sedan owners: wow my new status symbol looks super cool and it sure is fast and comfortable on the freeway and it has all the bells and whistles I want in a new vehicle. What a great car!

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srbmfodder@reddit

I got a ride in an AMG E63 that a VP where I worked owned. He knew I was into cars, and we were the only 2 in the office. He made about 10x what I did, but I had an Evo 9 at the time. He called it the Ubercar, I called it Ubercouch. It’s been almost 20 years, and now I see why he got that car. I don’t need my kidneys punched and my ears bleeding anymore

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MentalMiilk@reddit

Not to mention "new M5 is trash" back to back with "how can I reliably get 500hp out of my 200k mile Dodge Caliber? My budget is $400"

Shot in the dark, but I don't think they're the demographic BMW was targeting.

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HighClassProletariat@reddit

Breaking news: Civic Type R crowd doesn't enjoy car that isn't meant to do the same things. More at 11.

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TheWolfofBinance@reddit

At this point I wouldn’t spend 75k more for more acceleration. I certainly didn’t buy my cars for their acceleration

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BTTWchungus@reddit

Mercedes has lost the plot on their delusional pricing, I wouldn't overthink it.

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kid50cal@reddit

The GT63 is wayyy better at Corning than the M5. That’s where the price difference lies, beyond the bespoke chassis where you sit lower, dry sump oil system, mid front engine design etc…

Ultimately you can only accelerate so fast in a straight line as you’re pushing up on a wall of air.

I would still take an M5 but more so begrudgingly.

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Spaghetto23@reddit

They're comparing it to the GT63 four door. Which has almost nothing to do with the GT63 coupe. Neither of which are front mid lmao

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bestselfnice@reddit

I didn't know it made corned beef

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strongmanass@reddit

If you're buying a $200K commuter car you already have the other cars you want. You're also not street racing anybody so the performance figures are just for bragging rights. The only thing that matters in a car like that is whether it's fast enough for the prospective buyer and whether it's competitive with rivals.

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crazykernman95@reddit

Certainly cool, but my god, cars like this are getting way faster than necessary. I would never spend my cash on a 5k+ pound rocket. Genuinely, I'd rather spend my $135k on a golf r, a Subaru outback, and a Toyota Tacoma than that bmw.

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tyfe@reddit

If you can afford a $135k car you probably already have other cars to go with it.

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yll33@reddit

not everyone has garage space for all that though. and none of those are as nice or comfortable as any of the cars in this vid.

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crazykernman95@reddit

If I could afford a $135k car, I'd have a 3 or 4 car garage. Sure that setup isn't for everyone and those cars aren't as nice as the m5, but I care more about the utility of cars than the quality of leather used on the dashboard. I drive a GTI and my wife drives an outback, they are more than comfortable enough for me.

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pw3669@reddit

Not everyone has a garage that can support the weight of that BMW.

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TheOnlyOneWhoKnows@reddit

Model S Plaid and 20k in my pocket please

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Plus_Aura@reddit

Makes sense since the Tesla interior is where you get your 20k in savings

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danuinah@reddit

While I would agree with you if the conversation was about regular Tesla, but Plaid actually surprised me with their interior quality, where as m4 (perhaps m5 is way, way better) felt like lackluster with their alibaba looking M stickers (in the middle of seats), even Vader seats looked more stylish on an e36 m3 back in the day.

I really love older BMW's, it's probably my most favorite car brand, but I must say each year they release new models, they're getting fatter and fatter and not that interesting.

But that's just my subjective opinion and I'm certainly not BMW's market audience, so ye.

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Plus_Aura@reddit

Understandable.

What one person might use Minimalism to describe Teslas interior, I would use sterile, or barren instead.

I've had non-car people sit inside my 2007 335i. It's nothing fancy. They don't notice anything. But when they sit inside they come up and ask "what car is this anyway?". My brother who's a Merc head says the interior feels like a movie theater. I have to agree. I like it better than my 2020 440i interior.

But when you sit inside of a Tesla, you get this feeling of sitting inside a doctor's office. Everything is thru this impersonal huge iPad screen. I have to admit, the UI and work behind that IPad screen is very well done. But that only further drives the point home that everything else in the interior is an afterthought to this gargantuan iPad, that and they cut corners and didn't want to run too many circuits around the cars interior for things like buttons.

You start to understand why Tesla interiors are so featureless and all center around this iPad. Less wires and connectors to run. Makes it easier and cheaper to manufacture.

When you realize why they make their stylistic and engineering choices, it becomes clear that the shitty Tesla interiors are a product of a factory trying to meet demand at the cost of quality and design.

But I will give Tesla this; their drivetrain is sublime. The octovalve design that Tesla uses to maintain their batteries temperature and cabin temperature is a work of genius. Cooling and heating solutions usually decides whether an EV has a usable frunk or not. Tesla has the best design on the market.

This guy explains it better than I ever could:

https://youtu.be/7HC72p2gfuQ?si=IFzsdx2v13uEPJ6J

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Ancient_Persimmon@reddit

Is that what it costs to make a car interior look like an after hours club in Moscow?

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Plus_Aura@reddit

You've got BMW and Benz mixed up.

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Next_Necessary_8794@reddit

oop

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MentalMiilk@reddit

I have no love for Tesla, but that's actually a really interesting point. You can't buy the M5 for its performance because a Plaid will leave it for dead in a straight line and do about as well in the corners. You also can't buy one for the theater, because the AMG offering has that in spades. I'm really not coming up with a reason to buy the M5 over any of its competition, unless you just love the look and/or brand.

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IlIlIlIlIl241l23lIlI@reddit

and do about as well in the corners.

Nope

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MentalMiilk@reddit

I'm waiting to see how the M5 fares on track, but the few reviews I have seen don't really seem to love it's cornering behavior.

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IlIlIlIlIl241l23lIlI@reddit

Steve Dinan was on some podcast a few weeks ago and he was just raving about the M5, how it behaved on track and how the weight didn't matter at all for that kind of car.

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stakoverflo@reddit

Assuming you're talking about the recent Smoking Tire Appearance, he did not 'rave about the M5':

https://youtu.be/0DnjBRn62Cs?t=2257

"What does your company look like where these cars are hybridized?"

"Well you can always make a car go faster and handle better, right? So we're still going to modify them. Are we excited about the change? No. I'm fine with hybrid cars, but a percent of cars should not be. For a performance a car, a car you want to stop and turn, weighing 5300 lbs is a bad thing"

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MentalMiilk@reddit

Well then I look forwards to being proved wrong.

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MrCreepyCreeper@reddit

Not to beat the “M5 is heavy” horse but what happened to the carbon chassis tech that BMW was developing? We got a bespoke carbon chassis for the i3 and the carbon core for the G11/12 7 series but they didn’t do anything for the 5 series 10 years later?

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