You say this but dumbasses literally get upvoted to the thousands for saying that the fascist government think let the meteor hit Panama City on purpose as a false flag.
All you have to do is call fans of the movie fascist and say they don't get it on reddit and you will be massively upvoted even if your comment makes no sense and shows that you are going off memory and clearly haven't seen the film recently
And it's very likely they let the meteor hit Earth to later be able to claim that the bugs sent it. How exactly were the bugs meant to be firing huge chunks of rock across hundreds (if not thousands) of light-years of space? With such accuracy as to hit Earth?
How can Earth redirect a meteor? To accurately hit earth? The bugs are interstellar species that are shown to project butt acid attacks into the exosphere to destroy ships
They didn't redirect a meteor, they just allowed it to hit Earth. How did the bugs accurately fling an asteroid from across the galaxy to hit Earth? Yeah they fire plasma up from their planets, but are you suggesting that the huge artillery bugs that do this are able to do complex astrophysical equations in order to ensure their plasma hits a rock and sends it flying through space to hit Earth? The travel time alone for the asteroid would be thousands, if not millions of years.
The teacher at the beginning says that they colonize other planets by hurling their spores into space. Interstellar, yes. Capable of launching an interstellar attack with their asses...?
The bugs definitely sent it. They missed a bunch before getting a hit but they were far more advanced than the film shows even having a bio fleet of insect ships
Also the bugs in the book arent the same as the movie. Its definitely possible the meteor is a false flag, but at the end of the day its up to the viewer.
Is there any proof that it's actually a false flag attack in the film? I hear the theory bandied around all the time but I have no clue where it's confirmed.
Its never explicitly stated as a false flag, or explicitly proven the bugs did it.
That said its generally implied that humanity was expanding into space and ended up on a bug planet and conflict broke out, after which the meteor impact happened. To that end I'd say its implied that humanity ended up on a planet, wiped out a small bug colony, and the bugs said "fuck your shit" and sent the meteor at earth.
One of the things to understand is that the earth government is not inherently evil in the movies or book. They ultimately look out to protect human interests and sending a potential civilization destroying rock at the planet will do absolutely incalculable damage to humanity (and rather unpredictable too) and for what to have a war with space bugs you have already started a conflict without any real issues? From the earth government perspective the bugs are a minor threat that their exploratory forces just demolished, they are not deeply aware/omniscient about the bugs outside of what little they do know from the fringes of human colonization.
So from a human government perspective they have no real motive to carry out a false flag, especially a false flag on the scope and scale of a giant meteor strike on earth that could potentially harm themselves.
One of the biggest problems with many of the "media literate" types is that they just write off the human government as this super government that knows all, controls all, and is almost "perfect"... except its evil, racist, fascist, and otherwise "bad". They don't really consider anything from their perspective because they have simply written then off as fascist or whatever else. So whats their motivation for doing the false flag? Evil governments do false flags, so OF COURSE this evil government will also do a false flag.
All you have to do is call fans of the movie fascist and say they don't get it on reddit and you will be massively upvoted even if your comment makes no sense and shows that you are going off memory and clearly haven't seen the film recently
bc that's literally what the director himself thinks, regarding people who think the federation are supposed to be "good guys", lol
It’s not really his fault. Visual media tends to make the good guys attractive, and Starship Troopers is no different.
The “brain bug” is obviously very sexual and traditionally feminine in both appearance and behavior. Sure, she has that penis-like appendage that sucks people’s brains out, but once that is removed (which is reminiscent of genital mutilation) she is submissive. Her face even looks very similar to a vagina. In one of the last scenes of the movie, doctors are forcibly inserting tools into her bugussy. Once her brain sucking cock is removed, she is submissive and honestly, just a wet hole. I remember being erect watching the movie as a kid, and only after growing up did I realize it was because the brain bug is so sexy.
I always fast forwarded through the shower scene and sex scene in the tent, though. Gross.
In the book the brain bugs are common knowledge and they don’t suck people’s brains out. It was also the case that brain bugs were very fragile and die if looked at wrong, in theory book and movie Zim is the first person to successfully capture one but it’s less of an “oh my god this vile thing is real” and more a “maybe now we can come to a better understanding”
Usually it's the other way around lmfao. Imperium simps love claiming that the Imperium is good simply because Chaos exists so actually they're good guys
I would hope most people recognize that the Imperium is not "good", but instead, that given the environment of the universe, and the hostile alien races (not to mention literal demon gods), it is the only way Mankind could survive in that situation.
Nooo, you don't understand. Imperium is fascist and racist, and nothing is worse than racism. At least chaos hates everyone equally and is very diverse, they are the good inclusive guys.
Big brain is when you notice there are the T'au as well and they are fulfilling all the good guy cliches, like being surprised the imperium have 15 thousand year old hate-fueled, unapologetic killer cyborgs that is twice as old as their entire civlization.
Bro. I just heard a quote from 40k that was something like "the mind most empty is closest to salvation. The emperor protects, the emperor provides." My buddy plays 40k all the time and he doesn't see the problem with cutting funding to the DoE. Media literacy: 0. Or else he just wants to be beholden to an emperor because everyone is too dumb to see how their leaders are fucking them over.
People will give up their freedom just to avoid having to deal with the fact that consequences of their actions are due to the choices they made themselves.
I was actually following what he was saying and fun fact if, I think, you follow specific dialogues and have high enough iconoclast rating. You can acknowledge what he says in rhyme as well, and he gets surprised that you actually manage that
Buddy, pal, friend, buckaroo, who the fuck says chaos are the good guys? Every chaos fan I've seen loves them because they love how openly evil they are. Imperium fans are some of the only people who actually try to justify why they're the good guys, when they can't even do the bare minimum to be an attractive option when compared to literal hell
Chaos aren’t the good guys just because the imperium are the bad guys. Chaos are the “good guys” because they follow the true gods of the entire universe. They understand the “primordial truth,” the true nature of existence. This is meant to satirize religious ideas on morality, namely the idea that all morality comes from God, and that the right to total moral determination belongs to “the true God”
No, you see, there can only be one good guy and one bad guy.
I can't help but think of the eternal Israel Palestine conflict or similar conflicts around the globe. If you criticise one side, people are quick to assume you must be in total support of the otherside. The inverse of this is people who view the other side as the bad guys will completely ignore the shit their own side does when you point it out.
You don't really have a choice in the matter, do you? I'd say the emporium of man is a bad faction for your standards but by 40k? They're angels. The environment shapes the man.
Compared to 40k, most other factions are quite nice. Hell, the Tau are usually what one would describe as "the good guys" in 40k, yet they're an agressively imperialistic caste system that is no stranger to "join us, or else..." diplomacy. They'd be right at home as villains in something like Star Trek.
Human society isn't even remotely fascistic in the book. Hell, service as shown in the book is just a libertarian take on national service that exists today in countries like Switzerland or Finland. Verhoeven is just a moron that read half a chapter of a coming of age book set on the army and thought "le army equals le fascism". The only really hot take from the book is that "if you don't smack your kids around society will collapse"
If we’re talking about starship troopers then the book imho does moral ambiguity a lot better. Humanity and the bugs in the book don’t really know what to make of each other and the narrator hopes that one day that will change. The bugs did have an alliance with a third completely separate alien race the humans colloquially refer to as skinnies so in theory it is possible whereas in the movie the bugs are brain sucking monsters who kill humans en masse because a few rouge Mormons set up a colony just a little too close for their liking.
I'll get ya one deeper: How else do you think humanity AT PRESENT could possibly unify against an alien threat other than a militaristic dictatorship?
The not-democracy present in Starship Troopers was probably at some point born from necessity to get our collective shit together and not be annihilated by infighting and division.
The holdover into peacetime is the real issue; the ongoing forever-war perpetuated BY the regime is how they maintain power. But Day 1 of alien invasion? It's going to be fall in line or fall behind.
The actual explanation isn't really the point I was getting at, just as the point the movie was trying to make has nothing to do with space bugs. Though I was kinda trying to make a point about hypothetical space bugs.
Humans don't unite under a common cause willingly. It's never happened. We are forced into it, and IF we ever came under extraterrestrial threat, our only chance for survival is total and rapid unification. Our rights go away, our bodies go for the cause and the survival of the species. That's how it happens in war-torn countries and it's how it'd happen in this scenario. So it makes sense that a universe like Helldivers, Halo, Starship Troopers, Alien, etc all have military dictatorships.
Unification doesnt need to mean your rights go away. True Unification would be a system good enough people will be willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good because they know it will actually lead to a greater good.
But yeah that aint happening
And that also isnt what happens in starship troopers btw, the war with the bugs happens much after the unification.
The bugs aren't the good guys, but neither is humanity. And in the context of the movie the implication is that humanity either purposefully provoked them into attacking us and or falsified the initial attack to justify going to war with them.
I thought it was more of the society going towards a military warrior society where you cannot enter without providing work for the regime. The bad guys is really the government finding up excuses to go to war to justify the system. Kinda like America is always in perpetual war and the only hope the bottom 20% has of going to college or getting a paycheck with Healthcare is joining the military. Service garuntees citizenship just the same as service is a ticket out of the gettho
You don't have to serve in the military you can do civil work.
The teacher even encourage the MC NOT go to the military and shows him what it cost him so it's hardly like its a society where martial propaganda permeates society.
Even the parent of the MC didn't serve at all and are still shown to be a happy well of couple.
You must serve, it doesn’t need to be military service. The book explains in detail that there exists civilian jobs you can do, though that service tends to take slightly longer to make up for the fact you aren’t risking your life like a soldier.
Except the story and movie explicitly tells you that being a citizen vs a civilian doesn’t really grant you economic benefits. The MC parents aren’t citizens and are very wealthy. In fact he has a good job lined up.
I don’t think that system of government would work but that’s how it works in the story.
Is that not literally how our current system works? Residents of a country can often be just as wealthy as citizens despite not having any/full voting rights.
The narrative that they attacked first helps galvanize people into fighting. People are much more likely to go to war to "defend themselves" than to attack another group for essentially no reason. It doesn't matter if they're actually defending themselves so long as the narrative is there.
The Mormons were, against government's advice. That's another thing, why have that bit of the movie show that groups are free to defy the authoritarian regime? It could just as easily have been a government sanctioned colony being attacked. Instead, it paints the bugs as extra unreasonable, punishing Earth for not cracking down on religious groups. I get that the bugs don't think like we do and might not be aware that humans are individuals, but that's not explored and detracts from the central premise.
So these bugs who have no technology of their own were able to knock an astroid into a worm hole that just so happens to be within range of their planet and just so happened to exit right infornt of our planet, still on the other side of the galaxy?
It’s not, in the book the Arachnids are a vicious and expansionist race that can’t be reasoned with and have no remorse or capacity for emotions. Very cool read.
But the director hated the book he was basing his movie on and couldn’t comprehend a story where the marines were the good guys.
oh I did, just finished it yesterday. Movie was a lot more fun oriented, but the book was definitely more interesting.
I wanted to know more about the bugs and the war, but in the book was only interested in using them as a background for the actual story of a single troopers experience in the military.
Lets be honest, if they made the movie actually be based on the book. It would have been boring as shit. The story is not exactly something that translates well to a movie medium.
Unlike you, I can apparently understand that the movie & the book are wildly different things that have nothing more than a surface relation to each other and can enjoy each of them for what they bring to the table.
Nah. I was going to say "in some contexts" like action sequences, but they didn't even bother with the powered armour from the book.
The book holds together as a coherent whole, while the movie is "guys dressed in black bad, ok?" though if they'd put Denise Richards in an SS uniform I might have been persuaded to change my mind.
Having seen the movie & read the book recently, I can say they are really not the same thing. The movie is NOT a book turned into a move. The movie just stole the setting from the book, and used some keystone moments from the book and just went and did its own thing.
They are wildly different experiences. I personally found the book interesting but dull. And the movie entertaining but shallow. I can enjoy both for what they are and understand they are not the same. I do understand I am a little biased from liking the movie when I was a kid.
I always thought the meteorite being blamed on the arachnids was clearly just plain propaganda and any sensible mind could understand that it's just absurd to think an ASTEROID was SENT by a bunch of bugs. Why do people argue that the bugs did anything at all to provoke humans ???
We have bugs on different planets in different solar systems. Therefore they have FTL, in whatever form it could be. Therefore they can dump an asteroid on Earth easily enough.
No Paul Verhoven tried to use a book where the Humans are the good guys and make it so they were now not good guys, because he disliked Heinlein. And while he failed he made a banger movie. We don’t talk about the sequels.
The Federation didn’t start the war. Mormons set up a colony on a bug world despite the Federation warning against it in the movie than the bugs destroyed a Federation city in retaliation.
Have a shitty political system (most likely communism)
Have a shitty society (probably caste system or some shi)
Underdeveloped
Ugly
Fight against white people
Their land has harsh environment
Literal collective object of something something commies would support
The movie is just very bad at allegory. It has like two or three scenes where the message comes across, but the rest of it is a mess. Then you have idiots who saw the word "satire" in some analysis start thinking the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires was a false flag.
If the movie just beats you over the head with how bad everything is all the time and how you should be noticing how shitty their society is, it almost ceases to be satire and becomes more of a TPUSA style lecture. Whether you like or dislike the Starship Troopers we got, there’s no way it could be a good or interesting movie if the message of the movie was made so opaque that even the most illiterate moron could see it
I guess, but I don’t like the idea that we should always cater to that impulse, as I think it just goes further down that path. Fight club is another classic but I think if it spent a second longer explaining to the viewer why the fight club was bad actually that it would be immeasurably worse as a work of art. The uncomfortable ambiguity you feel watching something like that is an expression of the satire.
It’s meant to evoke conflicted/confusing feelings, and if you come out the other side thinking “wait a minute, I’m a fascist” then you already were, and some dumb movie telling you not to be probably wasn’t gonna change your mind, since there’s plenty of movies already that show fascists as the outright evil bad guys.
The reason I think Fight Club does it well is because it's spending the first half drawing you in to the club, that sense of belonging the forgotten little people get from the cult, then in the second half it gives you a slow kick to the head by shifting how it presents the club. It goes from the protag being in the in-group, to an outside perspective that clearly shows it as a violent cult that won't listen to him as he tries to explain something obvious to the viewer. That sense of belonging shifts into something else, something sinister, until it grows out of control and turns on its creator.
Starship troopers largely misses that second half. The recruiter's "made me the man I am today" scene is maybe too blunt, but we see the difference between how that line is intended by the character, and what the audience is supposed to get from it. There are a few of these in the movie, but they're disjoint and undermined by the rest of the text. The bugs are unambiguously bad, and an existential threat to humanity, despite the author intending their actions to be a response to human actions. The author intended the bombing to show how militaristic governments will use any event to stir up fervour for war, but in this case it's also the correct action. At the same time the idea is undermined by the government not reacting to the attack on the Mormons, letting that opportunity go.
Of course people think the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires is a false flag, as far as we know, the bugs don’t have the capability to launch asteroids like that. Plus how does they know earth coordinates ?
The army is literally loosing, despite an ennemi that can’t counter bombardment.
It’s very obvious that the bugs are not the threat that the propaganda segment let you believe.
The bugs are interplanetary and are literally shooting down spaceships in orbit. The director said the bugs launched the asteroid. You're just proving my point, the movie is bad at getting the message across without viewers making up wild theories.
My dude...The logistics of lobbing an asteroid multiple light years into earth is impossible as it is, not having it destroy the planet entirely after getting it to an acceptable velocity is insane.
Either the bugs are closer to us than alpha centauri, or have found methodologies to essentially pistol-shrimp gigantic asteroids at microscopic levels of precision and did so Millenia ago.
Let's imagine the bugs aren't 70,000 light years away like the movie suggest, but are 4.25 light years at Alpha Centauri.
Even if they managed to get the asteroid moving over a million kilometers per hour, it would take over 400 years to reach earth....and some fucking crazy how they've solved the three body problem and can plot out the calculations to launch a million of these things and land one- it'd be like flicking a grain of sand into another grain of sand over a mile away in a fucking thunderstorm...
Oh yeah, and the over 1MM kph impact doesn't absolutely fucking obliterate earth- just takes out a part of it.
The minute you start using the distances the movie gives (70K light years) then suddenly it's a many Millenia long journey and the unpredictable nature of supernovas altering gravity wells and fucking with your plotted trajectory and it's literally impossible.
Yes, it's a plot hole you have to ignore to enjoy the movie. One of many. Like the bugs being interplanetary or having anti-orbit artillery. So, is the director wrong about his movie? He says the bugs launched the meteor https://x.com/memeticsisyphus/status/1759624216259785177 See, this is what I mean. You're getting your ideas about the interpretation of the movie not from the director's intent but from what you read into it. And if that's the case, why is your reading any more valid than the people who read the opposite message into it, given we're disregarding the director's intent at this point?
If I direct a movie about an imaginary teddy bear but I fuck up and have scenes included where the bear ends up killing people and affecting the world around it, like it unlocks a door that another character uses to enter a house as a critical plot point, but all the while I keep claiming the bear isn't real, am I right because I'm the director or am I just fucking stupid because I don't understand how physics and plot consistency work?
It's not that crazy. A major theme of the film is the government constantly pushing propaganda and the characters eating it up. The viewer is supposed to question what they are being told.
More like incapable of comprehending the concept of both things are bad, in thier mind theres always the good guy and the bad guy, moral grayness is beyond thier cognitive abilities
The book is pro-fasicm/militirism, the movie satirises the book's message, it absolutely is saying "the book is wrong"
And also, hot take, the book is wrong. "Go be a soldier, its the peak of masculinity and you should die for your country" is really rich coming from a guy who was never in a combat role and never risked his life for anyone else. Yeah "death of the author" yadda yadda, but that less apllies to political manifestos.
No, it very much is not. Verhoeven is an idiot who made cool movies despite being an idiot, and Showgirls proves it.
Heinlein was a prolific writer, he wrote about a dude who lives hundreds of years and travels in time to fuck his mom, free love martian saint michael and other stuff, so how can you say he was defending that position instead of non-stop sex parties?
Those aren't the same thing. In fact, citizen soldiery is a cornerstone in the development of democracy, from the athenian citizen soldier to the English yeoman, when free men start to be forced to fight, they tend to start clamoring for a say in that fight.
If anything professional soldiery is the cornerstone of authoritarianism, look at Rome with the Marian reforms or the absolute monarchies of the 1700s. Or, hell, on a less dramatic scale look at the response to Vietnam with draftees vs Iraq with a professional army
Everytime this subject comes up, I feel the need to throw my hat into the ring
To me, the bugs aren't meant to be the good guys, or the victims. They're meant to be a reflection of humanity. Both civilizations have effectively conquered their galaxies, but humanity justifies what they do through things like "The glory of war," "Patriotism," and stuff like that. The bugs do the same thing, but they don't feel the need to justify what they do. They are a hivemind, a shared consciousness who do what they're told because it's what they have to do.
The Arachnids are meant to represent humanity of we stopped lying to ourselves to justify conflict. We don't start wars or conquer things for glory, honor, or religion, we do it because it's in our nature. The bugs are human. The bugs and mankind are meant to be one in the same. Thousands of fodder bugs are sent to be butchered by humanity, all faceless, nameless creatures with no purpose or higher calling but to die and rot away in service of someone who views them as an expendable means to an end, like how the brass views the soldiers.
The only thing I hate more than smug pseudo-intellectuals, are even more smug pseudo-intellectuals who act like they're smarter than the other pseudo-intellectuals
Interesting take, and pretty close to the original bood, ie the bugs are communists. Or "correct" communists, because they are a hivemind.
I think the book take is slighty more interesting. Yeah the bugs are sent to their death by the millions, but they arent individuals, they are designed and born to be fighters for the brain bugs. Its more comparable if the humans were using robots. Its sort of morally defendable, if it wasnt a war of aggression in the book.
I always thought it was funny how the intended meaning of the book and the intended meaning of the movie are exactly the opposite. And to make it even more confusing, people take the opposite of the intended meaning of each.
The bugs in the books have space traveling "bug ships", remember they are supposed to be a civilization/species that controls multiple planets. With that in mind simply using a bunch of ships to "push" a meteor/asteroid could work.
Further in the movie they even show bug "artillery" being able to shoot out of planetary orbit and into space to hit human space ships. So not only can they track things out of the planetary orbit, they can accurately hit them with potent weapons... if you can do that you can in theory aim at and hit a meteor to change its course.
The director of the movie straight up hated the source material, which makes him a weird choice, but it worked out. The movie still has a cult following.
Not really, because the script wasn't based on the book either, the writer (who isn't Paul Verhoeven) originally had an entirely unique story that shared elements with Starship Troopers, and he was only able to get it produced if he agreed to alter the story to technically make it a Starship Troopers script.
I think I agree with Ebert's take on Starship Troopers, which is "once it's clear that it's a satire, it's just grim and miserable to watch and has no levity or heart at all"
Either you're the type of person whose appreciation of art begins and ends with 'it looks cool' — "woah, hot people shooting bugs, badass!" — or you get it, and are just watching a soulless military-propaganda movie made by a government that doesn't exist
Lmao, thats just a terrible take. Why on earth would satire stop being funny because you figured out its satire? Wouldn't that make pretty much all satire not funny by definition?
I really disagree, its still a fun film with good lines and great worldbuilding
Its just a 40k situation: there are no good guys, everyone suck. You can cheer for the little personal victories, but the system as a whole is not going to be solved by the end of the plot.
Starship trooper is surprisingly pro fascist and its insane how often it is. Its also completely accidental its not in the themes but entirely plot.
A government mobilized its forces in weeks. Had a strict code of conduct that it followed even during war time. When a general openly makes a mistake is immediately replaced with a more competent one disregarding any red tape or party lines (maybe). These were all pro fascist moves and the benefits of a fascist government.
Propaganda shows the benefits of a system, and doesn’t talk about its severe drawbacks or question itself
Man, someone should really satire by mimicking fascist propaganda, giving it a story that appears extremely smooth brain popcorn movie on the outside, and show how many people will chest thump an extremely overtly fascist government if theyre only fed what that government wants them to see and give them an almost cartoonish “good guys” versus “bad guys” story
One thing I have always wondered is why does a guy from Beunos Aires know how to play Wish I Was In Dixie. It's a marching song from a 300 year old country that existed for 4 years. He's right out of high school, either his parents taught him the song, or school did.
Why would a hyper-militarized society that glorifies its military past not co-opt a well known war song and use it for their purposes? It would be easy enough for them to present the Lost Cause narrative and make it a source of pride for Southerners in their military. The Marines still use the nickname given to them over a hundred years ago, this is the kind of shit that militaries eat up.
That was kinda the point I was trying to make? Also, it is weird. Starship troopers takes place in the 23rd century, the CSA existed 500 years prior to the story. They also live on a completely different continent, but considering the lingua franca is English and all of the characters in the movie are white despite living in South America it means you can draw some inferences. Like I said, either his parents taught him that song, or the school did. So it begs the question as to why their society is teaching that song to their children. Maybe its because, as you said, they live in a hyper-militarized society that glorifies violence?
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Authoritarians love to bring up cultural mythology to inspire their troops into thinking they're "special". Look at the Nazis and Germanic myth imagery, or Fascist Italy and Ancient Rome.
One thing that I picked up on in starship troopers was that they blamed the bugs for sending a meteorite at Rio, but the bug planet is so far away that it would’ve taken thousands of years for a rock to travel from there to here. I think that was part of the point, that it was a false flag
Let us not even try to contemplate an asteroid travelling god knows how many light years in normal space some how, coming close enough to a ship to create a "gravity field" enough to affect a cup of coffee and knocking off part of the ship!
Would you like to know more? 4chan anons executed for failing to contribute to society. Not a single one among them were even trying to become citizens! Their ringleader, the man wearing a foxtail buttplug, can be seen here crying and begging for mercy. Good riddance!
You are completely lost on the message of the movie if you think the human civilization in this movie is prosperous. The end make it really clear, that the regime is sending teen because they are loosing.
Why would the movie be incompetent at conveying it’s message if you understood it ?
What do you mean you think the movie shoot himself in the foot ? Are you one of those people, that understand that the human are leaving under a fascist regime, who is losing the war, but fail to consider the fascist regime as bad because "muh city looks clean and soldiers look cool" ?
I mean that the movie is undermining the message it's trying to convey by disregarding the majority of the problems with fascism and hoping that merely pointing out the presented society is fascist is enough to show people it's bad. You have to assume the conclusion to arrive at it. Taken at face value, it can be interpreted as a defense of fascism that claims the few downsides it presents are a worthwhile sacrifice. That in itself makes it bad at property conveying its message. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
Then you don’t completely understand the message of the movie, you don’t understand that the movie is also trying to warn people, that fascism can present itself in multiple ways, and in the case of the movie it presents itself as a good looking society.
If the movie was less subtle about the fact the regime is a fascist one, the movie would be far less interesting.
The point in making the humans look sexy and cool is to show you that fascism doesn’t always look like history channel documentaries on hitler rallies with evil music and scenes from concentration camps. Propaganda can make it look very appealing, even while it’s destroying your society by throwing young people into a violent meat grinder to justify its own ideology
Too bad the movie itself presents it as a war of survival against a genocidal enemy.
throwing young people into a violent meat grinder to justify its own ideology
In this context, that describes the allies in WW2 just as much as the axis. At least present the war as pointless through subtext that contrasts in-world propaganda.
Thendrail@reddit
>Anon doesn't understand that it's not so much about the bugs being the good guys, but humanity being the bad guys
Colour me surprised.
Darth_Syphilisll@reddit
You say this but dumbasses literally get upvoted to the thousands for saying that the fascist government think let the meteor hit Panama City on purpose as a false flag.
All you have to do is call fans of the movie fascist and say they don't get it on reddit and you will be massively upvoted even if your comment makes no sense and shows that you are going off memory and clearly haven't seen the film recently
TheGreatBatsby@reddit
*Buenos Aires
And it's very likely they let the meteor hit Earth to later be able to claim that the bugs sent it. How exactly were the bugs meant to be firing huge chunks of rock across hundreds (if not thousands) of light-years of space? With such accuracy as to hit Earth?
Darth_Syphilisll@reddit
How can Earth redirect a meteor? To accurately hit earth? The bugs are interstellar species that are shown to project butt acid attacks into the exosphere to destroy ships
TheGreatBatsby@reddit
They didn't redirect a meteor, they just allowed it to hit Earth. How did the bugs accurately fling an asteroid from across the galaxy to hit Earth? Yeah they fire plasma up from their planets, but are you suggesting that the huge artillery bugs that do this are able to do complex astrophysical equations in order to ensure their plasma hits a rock and sends it flying through space to hit Earth? The travel time alone for the asteroid would be thousands, if not millions of years.
The teacher at the beginning says that they colonize other planets by hurling their spores into space. Interstellar, yes. Capable of launching an interstellar attack with their asses...?
Darth_Syphilisll@reddit
Yes they explicitly are. They're an interstellar hivemind that operates at interstellar levels.
You're just making up headcanon that goes against the lore
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
The bugs definitely sent it. They missed a bunch before getting a hit but they were far more advanced than the film shows even having a bio fleet of insect ships
TheGreatBatsby@reddit
Sorry, how do you know this?
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
I actually read the book
TheGreatBatsby@reddit
Yeah so have I, but the book and the movie are two totally different things and we're talking about the movie.
Dizzy is a man in the book. That doesn't mean Casper Van Dien had hot gay sex in the film.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
No, the events in the movie and book are basically exactly the same. The film just adds a ridiculous satire slant
NewDemocraticPrairie@reddit
The book is different than the movie.
In the movie, the meteor strike is implied to be a false flag, which is stated by Verhoeven in interviews.
I also read the book (and enjoyed it).
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
Let’s see the interview where he states that
NewDemocraticPrairie@reddit
Sorry, I was wrong. I believed a youtube video which says he said that it was a false flag instead of trying to find a direct source.
https://x.com/GyzmoFyre88/status/1760127598783496518
We invaded their territory and they retaliated.
yomer123123@reddit
Unlike the director lol
Also the bugs in the book arent the same as the movie. Its definitely possible the meteor is a false flag, but at the end of the day its up to the viewer.
Bazzyboss@reddit
Is there any proof that it's actually a false flag attack in the film? I hear the theory bandied around all the time but I have no clue where it's confirmed.
2OptionsIsNotChoice@reddit
Its never explicitly stated as a false flag, or explicitly proven the bugs did it.
That said its generally implied that humanity was expanding into space and ended up on a bug planet and conflict broke out, after which the meteor impact happened. To that end I'd say its implied that humanity ended up on a planet, wiped out a small bug colony, and the bugs said "fuck your shit" and sent the meteor at earth.
One of the things to understand is that the earth government is not inherently evil in the movies or book. They ultimately look out to protect human interests and sending a potential civilization destroying rock at the planet will do absolutely incalculable damage to humanity (and rather unpredictable too) and for what to have a war with space bugs you have already started a conflict without any real issues? From the earth government perspective the bugs are a minor threat that their exploratory forces just demolished, they are not deeply aware/omniscient about the bugs outside of what little they do know from the fringes of human colonization.
So from a human government perspective they have no real motive to carry out a false flag, especially a false flag on the scope and scale of a giant meteor strike on earth that could potentially harm themselves.
One of the biggest problems with many of the "media literate" types is that they just write off the human government as this super government that knows all, controls all, and is almost "perfect"... except its evil, racist, fascist, and otherwise "bad". They don't really consider anything from their perspective because they have simply written then off as fascist or whatever else. So whats their motivation for doing the false flag? Evil governments do false flags, so OF COURSE this evil government will also do a false flag.
internetlad@reddit
Narrator: it was the exact plot of Enders Game
Darth_Syphilisll@reddit
You literally see the meteor in space and they m ention it's on a course for earth
The_Gunboat_Diplomat@reddit
bc that's literally what the director himself thinks, regarding people who think the federation are supposed to be "good guys", lol
thr33beggars@reddit
It’s not really his fault. Visual media tends to make the good guys attractive, and Starship Troopers is no different.
The “brain bug” is obviously very sexual and traditionally feminine in both appearance and behavior. Sure, she has that penis-like appendage that sucks people’s brains out, but once that is removed (which is reminiscent of genital mutilation) she is submissive. Her face even looks very similar to a vagina. In one of the last scenes of the movie, doctors are forcibly inserting tools into her bugussy. Once her brain sucking cock is removed, she is submissive and honestly, just a wet hole. I remember being erect watching the movie as a kid, and only after growing up did I realize it was because the brain bug is so sexy.
I always fast forwarded through the shower scene and sex scene in the tent, though. Gross.
Komrade_Yuri@reddit
Abominable, contemptible, disgusting, foul, vile, hideous, demonic, evil, horrific, putrid, nauseating, loathsome, despicable, heinous, revolting, misbegotten disgrace of a comment.
God does not love you and I will send thee to collect a personal confirmation.
DrDroom@reddit
Your comment was a smooth ride until you HAD TO REMEMBER YOUR CHILDHOOD
WoolooOfWallStreet@reddit
At first I thought you said “smooth brain” and was about to comment
“Because the bug sucked the wrinkles off”
internetlad@reddit
Just couldn't let that joke be the one that got away couldja
LocalGalilSimp@reddit
Degenerates like you, belong a cross.
thr33beggars@reddit
Across from what?
XDDDSOFUNNEH@reddit
Hugh Mungus wot?
LeatherDescription26@reddit
In the book the brain bugs are common knowledge and they don’t suck people’s brains out. It was also the case that brain bugs were very fragile and die if looked at wrong, in theory book and movie Zim is the first person to successfully capture one but it’s less of an “oh my god this vile thing is real” and more a “maybe now we can come to a better understanding”
JosiahDanger@reddit
wake up brain bug, new copypasta just dropped
IFuckBadDragons@reddit
I would like to know more
FlareBlitzCrits@reddit
Based.
ColdBloodBlazing@reddit
But, in the animated movie, that same brain bug takes over the mind of Carl and wreaks havoc
HangInThereChad@reddit
Actually y'know what yeah maybe the bugs trying to exterminate humanity have a point.
FuciMiNaKule@reddit
You need to be executed
thr33beggars@reddit
Would you like to know more?
If it’s about sticking my cock in a bug’s face pussy, you’re goddamn right I do.
crusaderactual777@reddit
This is why we don't all need free speech. Please self-report to Guantanamo Bay.
Extreme-Kitchen1637@reddit
Same
Designated_Lurker_32@reddit
No, you see, there can only be one good guy and one bad guy. If the bugs are bad guys, then the humans must be the good guys.
toomuchradiation@reddit
I saw similar but unironic 9k IQ takes for 40k.
>If Imprerium is bad that means Chaos actually are good guys cause they fight bad guys. It's called media literacy, I am very smart.
urmumgay69lol@reddit
Usually it's the other way around lmfao. Imperium simps love claiming that the Imperium is good simply because Chaos exists so actually they're good guys
LobsterOfViolence@reddit
I would hope most people recognize that the Imperium is not "good", but instead, that given the environment of the universe, and the hostile alien races (not to mention literal demon gods), it is the only way Mankind could survive in that situation.
seastatefive@reddit
That hippie commune in Tau space seems to suggest at another way to coexist though.
LobsterOfViolence@reddit
I dunno if I'd call the Tau a hippie commune. The Tau are basically just big standard Auth-Left, with India-esque caste systems too.
You can't exist in WH40K with small government.
seastatefive@reddit
I was thinking more of the Farsight Enclave where there are human "Gue'vesa" living under Tau rule and fighting alongside them, for the Greater Good.
toomuchradiation@reddit
Nooo, you don't understand. Imperium is fascist and racist, and nothing is worse than racism. At least chaos hates everyone equally and is very diverse, they are the good inclusive guys.
urmumgay69lol@reddit
buddy you're doing the thing right now
toomuchradiation@reddit
Sorry, I'll turn on my irony inhibitors.
speedyrain949@reddit
In 40k, everyone's an ass. Except the orks because their silly little fellas.
internetlad@reddit
How about those skeletons
Captain_Sacktap@reddit
Ogryn are ok.
-n-o-o-b-@reddit
The imperium are objectively the good guys
everything else is heresy
Neomataza@reddit
Big brain is when you notice there are the T'au as well and they are fulfilling all the good guy cliches, like being surprised the imperium have 15 thousand year old hate-fueled, unapologetic killer cyborgs that is twice as old as their entire civlization.
SsRapier@reddit
Werent the t'au responsible for the birth of an chaos god, by murderfucking?
fuckitymcfuckfacejr@reddit
Bro. I just heard a quote from 40k that was something like "the mind most empty is closest to salvation. The emperor protects, the emperor provides." My buddy plays 40k all the time and he doesn't see the problem with cutting funding to the DoE. Media literacy: 0. Or else he just wants to be beholden to an emperor because everyone is too dumb to see how their leaders are fucking them over.
TangerineSorry8463@reddit
People will give up their freedom just to avoid having to deal with the fact that consequences of their actions are due to the choices they made themselves.
itsaxBoomerx@reddit
Only good guys are Harlequins lmao.
Jaruut@reddit
Um akshually the Night Lords are the true good guys
Tog5@reddit
Konrad Curze did nothing wrong
itsaxBoomerx@reddit
Talos is pretty based. This is true.
Raesong@reddit
[B A Z I N G A]
EmhyrvarSpice@reddit
[DO YOU HAVE A LIBRARY CARD~?]
itsaxBoomerx@reddit
"I left it in my other robe" "Laugh with me Rubrics!"
toomuchradiation@reddit
While playing Rogue Trader I broke my eyes trying to understand what the fuck harlequin is trying to say with his riddled language.
CailHancer@reddit
He's just extra like that, in Cassia's last quest you meet some other harlequins and they speak like regular aeldari
Numrut@reddit
I was actually following what he was saying and fun fact if, I think, you follow specific dialogues and have high enough iconoclast rating. You can acknowledge what he says in rhyme as well, and he gets surprised that you actually manage that
StrawberryWide3983@reddit
Buddy, pal, friend, buckaroo, who the fuck says chaos are the good guys? Every chaos fan I've seen loves them because they love how openly evil they are. Imperium fans are some of the only people who actually try to justify why they're the good guys, when they can't even do the bare minimum to be an attractive option when compared to literal hell
SharkMilk44@reddit
Orks are the good guys in 40K because they're just some lads having fun.
Kicooi@reddit
Chaos aren’t the good guys just because the imperium are the bad guys. Chaos are the “good guys” because they follow the true gods of the entire universe. They understand the “primordial truth,” the true nature of existence. This is meant to satirize religious ideas on morality, namely the idea that all morality comes from God, and that the right to total moral determination belongs to “the true God”
OldManChino@reddit
Heretical
Ser_Danksalot@reddit
I can't help but think of the eternal Israel Palestine conflict or similar conflicts around the globe. If you criticise one side, people are quick to assume you must be in total support of the otherside. The inverse of this is people who view the other side as the bad guys will completely ignore the shit their own side does when you point it out.
Neomataza@reddit
Exactly. It is completely possible that both sides are huge assholes.
TangerineSorry8463@reddit
The main difference between these two sides is funding and competency.
WillingnessDouble496@reddit
Perfect example of one of the dangers of religious indoctrination on critical thinking.
Thendrail@reddit
Ah crap, I knew I forgot something!
bendbars_liftgates@reddit
NONONONONO THERE NEEDS TO BE A GOOD GUY SO THAT I CAN SELF-INSERT AND FEEL POWERFUL AND WORTHWHILE FOR A FEW FLEETING SECONDS.
Metrix145@reddit
You don't really have a choice in the matter, do you? I'd say the emporium of man is a bad faction for your standards but by 40k? They're angels. The environment shapes the man.
Thendrail@reddit
Compared to 40k, most other factions are quite nice. Hell, the Tau are usually what one would describe as "the good guys" in 40k, yet they're an agressively imperialistic caste system that is no stranger to "join us, or else..." diplomacy. They'd be right at home as villains in something like Star Trek.
VicisSubsisto@reddit
There are no good factions in a wargame, only good individuals. This lets every player roleplay as a big damn hero.
Maelorus@reddit
I understand that's what the director thinks, I just disagree.
HumanContinuity@reddit
The book is, without a doubt, different.
Firlite@reddit
Human society isn't even remotely fascistic in the book. Hell, service as shown in the book is just a libertarian take on national service that exists today in countries like Switzerland or Finland. Verhoeven is just a moron that read half a chapter of a coming of age book set on the army and thought "le army equals le fascism". The only really hot take from the book is that "if you don't smack your kids around society will collapse"
Maelorus@reddit
Yeah it's a lot deeper, but the movie is cooler.
LeatherDescription26@reddit
If we’re talking about starship troopers then the book imho does moral ambiguity a lot better. Humanity and the bugs in the book don’t really know what to make of each other and the narrator hopes that one day that will change. The bugs did have an alliance with a third completely separate alien race the humans colloquially refer to as skinnies so in theory it is possible whereas in the movie the bugs are brain sucking monsters who kill humans en masse because a few rouge Mormons set up a colony just a little too close for their liking.
TimeGlitches@reddit
I'll get ya one deeper: How else do you think humanity AT PRESENT could possibly unify against an alien threat other than a militaristic dictatorship?
The not-democracy present in Starship Troopers was probably at some point born from necessity to get our collective shit together and not be annihilated by infighting and division.
The holdover into peacetime is the real issue; the ongoing forever-war perpetuated BY the regime is how they maintain power. But Day 1 of alien invasion? It's going to be fall in line or fall behind.
yomer123123@reddit
They talk about how their system was created in the first classroom scene, and the book is more detailed about it.
Tldr, kids werent spanked, so the world fell into chaos, and the vets of ww3 took charge post war So, nonsense basically
TimeGlitches@reddit
The actual explanation isn't really the point I was getting at, just as the point the movie was trying to make has nothing to do with space bugs. Though I was kinda trying to make a point about hypothetical space bugs.
Humans don't unite under a common cause willingly. It's never happened. We are forced into it, and IF we ever came under extraterrestrial threat, our only chance for survival is total and rapid unification. Our rights go away, our bodies go for the cause and the survival of the species. That's how it happens in war-torn countries and it's how it'd happen in this scenario. So it makes sense that a universe like Helldivers, Halo, Starship Troopers, Alien, etc all have military dictatorships.
yomer123123@reddit
Unification doesnt need to mean your rights go away. True Unification would be a system good enough people will be willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good because they know it will actually lead to a greater good.
But yeah that aint happening
And that also isnt what happens in starship troopers btw, the war with the bugs happens much after the unification.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
The humans are the good guys lmao. But le media literate director had to do his heckin fascism allegory!!
NothingOld7527@reddit
Xir, your certificate of Media Literacy™
Fendair@reddit
SOUNDS LIKE HERESY
Legitimate_Age_5824@reddit
>redditor
>thinks humanity can be the bad guys
Matt_2504@reddit
Humanity can’t be the bad guys because we’re better than aliens
Legitimate_Age_5824@reddit
Unironically
Mizznimal@reddit
When the survival fight is for survival
Distant_Congo_Music@reddit
Anon failed every English class they ever took.
The bugs aren't the good guys, but neither is humanity. And in the context of the movie the implication is that humanity either purposefully provoked them into attacking us and or falsified the initial attack to justify going to war with them.
flyinchipmunk5@reddit
I thought it was more of the society going towards a military warrior society where you cannot enter without providing work for the regime. The bad guys is really the government finding up excuses to go to war to justify the system. Kinda like America is always in perpetual war and the only hope the bottom 20% has of going to college or getting a paycheck with Healthcare is joining the military. Service garuntees citizenship just the same as service is a ticket out of the gettho
Gadac@reddit
You don't have to serve in the military you can do civil work.
The teacher even encourage the MC NOT go to the military and shows him what it cost him so it's hardly like its a society where martial propaganda permeates society.
Even the parent of the MC didn't serve at all and are still shown to be a happy well of couple.
flyinchipmunk5@reddit
Yeah but you cannot vote unless you serve. Thats about as high of citizenship you could get.
The_Knife_Pie@reddit
You must serve, it doesn’t need to be military service. The book explains in detail that there exists civilian jobs you can do, though that service tends to take slightly longer to make up for the fact you aren’t risking your life like a soldier.
flyinchipmunk5@reddit
Yeah but only military service will allow you to vote or run for office.
sbd104@reddit
Except the story and movie explicitly tells you that being a citizen vs a civilian doesn’t really grant you economic benefits. The MC parents aren’t citizens and are very wealthy. In fact he has a good job lined up.
I don’t think that system of government would work but that’s how it works in the story.
The_Knife_Pie@reddit
Is that not literally how our current system works? Residents of a country can often be just as wealthy as citizens despite not having any/full voting rights.
IceRinger@reddit
Wtf do you need a justification to fight bugs?
Fyrefanboy@reddit
"do you need a justification to throw billions of people to their death ?"
Yes, you need a really good one.
Financial_Camp2183@reddit
They're bugs
TGWsharky@reddit
Would you accept that reason if a species that believed they were better than us chose to eradicate us?
Shasan23@reddit
So you gonna be first to volunteer to be in the frontlines, right?
Financial_Camp2183@reddit
Hell yeah bro let's kill some fuckin bugs
Shasan23@reddit
Alright boss just making sure you werent some chicken hawk. See you there.
Neomataza@reddit
They're [different from us].
You're a dingbat.
yomer123123@reddit
So what? As long as youre not in their territory, they dont care.
The galaxy is fucking huge, let the hive mind giant bugs just be
logic2187@reddit
Not the people being deployed to fight them
Fyrefanboy@reddit
And ?
Distant_Congo_Music@reddit
The narrative that they attacked first helps galvanize people into fighting. People are much more likely to go to war to "defend themselves" than to attack another group for essentially no reason. It doesn't matter if they're actually defending themselves so long as the narrative is there.
GruntBlender@reddit
But the director confirmed the asteroid really was the bugs attacking Earth. The satire is so muddled, it's no wonder a ton of people misinterpret it.
AuContraire_85@reddit
but the bugs attacked Earth because humanity was encroaching on their territory.
GruntBlender@reddit
The Mormons were, against government's advice. That's another thing, why have that bit of the movie show that groups are free to defy the authoritarian regime? It could just as easily have been a government sanctioned colony being attacked. Instead, it paints the bugs as extra unreasonable, punishing Earth for not cracking down on religious groups. I get that the bugs don't think like we do and might not be aware that humans are individuals, but that's not explored and detracts from the central premise.
AuContraire_85@reddit
Yes of course they were acting independently, also the Ukrainian/Crimerean separatists are have no affiliation with the Russia
GruntBlender@reddit
No, I'm taking the director's words at face value. https://x.com/memeticsisyphus/status/1759624216259785177
Malice0801@reddit
The bugs live on the other side of the galaxy. Unless they shot it at the speed of light 100M years ago I don't think thats possible.
Salamadierha@reddit
Wormholes.. worms are bugs.
No one ever accused Verhoeven of being intelligent either.
cheese0muncher@reddit
I hereby accuse Verhoeven of being intelligent!
VicisSubsisto@reddit
Charge dismissed for lack of evidence.
Salamadierha@reddit
Let me rephrase:
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
lol at thinking verhoeven could even begin to write a story like ST
Malice0801@reddit
So these bugs who have no technology of their own were able to knock an astroid into a worm hole that just so happens to be within range of their planet and just so happened to exit right infornt of our planet, still on the other side of the galaxy?
DawnBringer01@reddit
I've heard the book isn't even satire so that honestly isn't too surprising
WaveDash16@reddit
It’s not, in the book the Arachnids are a vicious and expansionist race that can’t be reasoned with and have no remorse or capacity for emotions. Very cool read.
But the director hated the book he was basing his movie on and couldn’t comprehend a story where the marines were the good guys.
gillababe@reddit
Bug fuel can't melt steel beams
YorkPorkWasTaken@reddit
We literally see it do that in the movie
PaintThinnerSparky@reddit
Fake news
elliotcook10@reddit
*Bug juice
cadelaser77@reddit
Well yeah, them being different from humans isn't a good reason to commit genocide
NotAFakeName59@reddit
Though that's honestly a better reason than any of the other genocides we've already committed.
cadelaser77@reddit
Fair enough, though at that point I don't think you can justify any genocides at all lol
UristMcMagma@reddit
It is, though.
izza123@reddit
Because the bugs weren’t mindless bugs they were an organised society who only appeared to be mindless.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
They were mindless. 99% of the bugs were literal drones. Only the very upper class of bugs had intelligence
Doobalicious69@reddit
Frankly I find the idea of a bug that can think offensive.
otakarg@reddit
Stupid game mechanic called casus beli. I swear it feels like you need a "reason" in order to do anything these days. Fucking bullshit
Raesong@reddit
No CB best CB. Second best is Imperialism CB.
OldManChino@reddit
Calm down jonkler
ActivationSynthesis@reddit
The guy you're replying to probably looks like picrel and typed his reply while making the same face
kilqax@reddit
The context of the movie is the directors wanted to make a different movie than the book so they satirised it.
Chehalden@reddit
I personally think this is one of those rare cases where the movie was better than the book.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
You definitely did not read the book
Chehalden@reddit
oh I did, just finished it yesterday. Movie was a lot more fun oriented, but the book was definitely more interesting.
I wanted to know more about the bugs and the war, but in the book was only interested in using them as a background for the actual story of a single troopers experience in the military.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
How convenient. Well if it’s your real opinion that the movie is better then the book then there’s no getting around it your opinions just trash
Chehalden@reddit
Lets be honest, if they made the movie actually be based on the book. It would have been boring as shit. The story is not exactly something that translates well to a movie medium.
Unlike you, I can apparently understand that the movie & the book are wildly different things that have nothing more than a surface relation to each other and can enjoy each of them for what they bring to the table.
Salamadierha@reddit
Nah. I was going to say "in some contexts" like action sequences, but they didn't even bother with the powered armour from the book.
The book holds together as a coherent whole, while the movie is "guys dressed in black bad, ok?" though if they'd put Denise Richards in an SS uniform I might have been persuaded to change my mind.
Chehalden@reddit
Having seen the movie & read the book recently, I can say they are really not the same thing. The movie is NOT a book turned into a move. The movie just stole the setting from the book, and used some keystone moments from the book and just went and did its own thing.
They are wildly different experiences. I personally found the book interesting but dull. And the movie entertaining but shallow. I can enjoy both for what they are and understand they are not the same. I do understand I am a little biased from liking the movie when I was a kid.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
It’s not even satire of the book. ST movie is barely even related to the book besides ripping the plot
Legitimate_Age_5824@reddit
Verhoeven couldn't even be bothered to read the book, so the movie really satirizes a straw man
Hokenlord@reddit
I always thought the meteorite being blamed on the arachnids was clearly just plain propaganda and any sensible mind could understand that it's just absurd to think an ASTEROID was SENT by a bunch of bugs. Why do people argue that the bugs did anything at all to provoke humans ???
OldManChino@reddit
Honestly, how could it not be a false flag?
Gadac@reddit
You can't conceive that a multi planetary species which can spawn biological orbital weaponry is capable of sending an asteroid?
The director itself said the attack was not a false flag.
Hokenlord@reddit
I'm looking around and I can't find anything about the director saying it wasn't a false flag
cheese0muncher@reddit
That's because he's being paid off by the Terran Federation.
Salamadierha@reddit
God that was just embaarrassing, beetles farting plasma..
imthatguy8223@reddit
Clearly the bugs arnt as dumb as they look.
Salamadierha@reddit
We have bugs on different planets in different solar systems. Therefore they have FTL, in whatever form it could be. Therefore they can dump an asteroid on Earth easily enough.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
Talking about English class when you clearly haven’t read the book lmao. The humans are most definitely the good guys in the story
sbd104@reddit
No Paul Verhoven tried to use a book where the Humans are the good guys and make it so they were now not good guys, because he disliked Heinlein. And while he failed he made a banger movie. We don’t talk about the sequels.
The Federation didn’t start the war. Mormons set up a colony on a bug world despite the Federation warning against it in the movie than the bugs destroyed a Federation city in retaliation.
Salamadierha@reddit
Humans provoked the attack, it was this religious group!!!
No one ever accused Verhoeven of being subtle in his prejudices.
DrummerDesigner6791@reddit
Weren't they already at war and the attack was used to justify a full scale invasion?
imthatguy8223@reddit
Sorry mate, anything bigger than my thumb with an exoskeleton needs to be made unalive.
Distant_Congo_Music@reddit
Soy
imthatguy8223@reddit
How do you use a keyboard without thumbs, bugman?
Distant_Congo_Music@reddit
Touch typing with my legs
I mean what
Rogue_Istari@reddit
I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill 'em all
Boec_DonBaSSa_2006@reddit
Well, you see, bugs are actually good guys
Literal collective object of something something commies would support
sabrefudge@reddit
They wouldn’t have any “man” to eat if you didn’t send thousands of soldiers to go attack them.
Hkkw13@reddit
Rightoids are too stupid understand basic allegories and satire lmao, no wonder that they vote against their interests every time
GruntBlender@reddit
The movie is just very bad at allegory. It has like two or three scenes where the message comes across, but the rest of it is a mess. Then you have idiots who saw the word "satire" in some analysis start thinking the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires was a false flag.
StanIsHorizontal@reddit
If the movie just beats you over the head with how bad everything is all the time and how you should be noticing how shitty their society is, it almost ceases to be satire and becomes more of a TPUSA style lecture. Whether you like or dislike the Starship Troopers we got, there’s no way it could be a good or interesting movie if the message of the movie was made so opaque that even the most illiterate moron could see it
GruntBlender@reddit
Is there perhaps a middle ground between a lecture and an ambiguous action sci fi?
StanIsHorizontal@reddit
I guess, but I don’t like the idea that we should always cater to that impulse, as I think it just goes further down that path. Fight club is another classic but I think if it spent a second longer explaining to the viewer why the fight club was bad actually that it would be immeasurably worse as a work of art. The uncomfortable ambiguity you feel watching something like that is an expression of the satire.
It’s meant to evoke conflicted/confusing feelings, and if you come out the other side thinking “wait a minute, I’m a fascist” then you already were, and some dumb movie telling you not to be probably wasn’t gonna change your mind, since there’s plenty of movies already that show fascists as the outright evil bad guys.
GruntBlender@reddit
The reason I think Fight Club does it well is because it's spending the first half drawing you in to the club, that sense of belonging the forgotten little people get from the cult, then in the second half it gives you a slow kick to the head by shifting how it presents the club. It goes from the protag being in the in-group, to an outside perspective that clearly shows it as a violent cult that won't listen to him as he tries to explain something obvious to the viewer. That sense of belonging shifts into something else, something sinister, until it grows out of control and turns on its creator.
Starship troopers largely misses that second half. The recruiter's "made me the man I am today" scene is maybe too blunt, but we see the difference between how that line is intended by the character, and what the audience is supposed to get from it. There are a few of these in the movie, but they're disjoint and undermined by the rest of the text. The bugs are unambiguously bad, and an existential threat to humanity, despite the author intending their actions to be a response to human actions. The author intended the bombing to show how militaristic governments will use any event to stir up fervour for war, but in this case it's also the correct action. At the same time the idea is undermined by the government not reacting to the attack on the Mormons, letting that opportunity go.
Teword@reddit
Of course people think the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires is a false flag, as far as we know, the bugs don’t have the capability to launch asteroids like that. Plus how does they know earth coordinates ?
The army is literally loosing, despite an ennemi that can’t counter bombardment. It’s very obvious that the bugs are not the threat that the propaganda segment let you believe.
GruntBlender@reddit
The bugs are interplanetary and are literally shooting down spaceships in orbit. The director said the bugs launched the asteroid. You're just proving my point, the movie is bad at getting the message across without viewers making up wild theories.
LoL-Guru@reddit
My dude...The logistics of lobbing an asteroid multiple light years into earth is impossible as it is, not having it destroy the planet entirely after getting it to an acceptable velocity is insane.
Either the bugs are closer to us than alpha centauri, or have found methodologies to essentially pistol-shrimp gigantic asteroids at microscopic levels of precision and did so Millenia ago.
Let's imagine the bugs aren't 70,000 light years away like the movie suggest, but are 4.25 light years at Alpha Centauri.
Even if they managed to get the asteroid moving over a million kilometers per hour, it would take over 400 years to reach earth....and some fucking crazy how they've solved the three body problem and can plot out the calculations to launch a million of these things and land one- it'd be like flicking a grain of sand into another grain of sand over a mile away in a fucking thunderstorm...
Oh yeah, and the over 1MM kph impact doesn't absolutely fucking obliterate earth- just takes out a part of it.
The minute you start using the distances the movie gives (70K light years) then suddenly it's a many Millenia long journey and the unpredictable nature of supernovas altering gravity wells and fucking with your plotted trajectory and it's literally impossible.
GruntBlender@reddit
Yes, it's a plot hole you have to ignore to enjoy the movie. One of many. Like the bugs being interplanetary or having anti-orbit artillery. So, is the director wrong about his movie? He says the bugs launched the meteor https://x.com/memeticsisyphus/status/1759624216259785177 See, this is what I mean. You're getting your ideas about the interpretation of the movie not from the director's intent but from what you read into it. And if that's the case, why is your reading any more valid than the people who read the opposite message into it, given we're disregarding the director's intent at this point?
LoL-Guru@reddit
If I direct a movie about an imaginary teddy bear but I fuck up and have scenes included where the bear ends up killing people and affecting the world around it, like it unlocks a door that another character uses to enter a house as a critical plot point, but all the while I keep claiming the bear isn't real, am I right because I'm the director or am I just fucking stupid because I don't understand how physics and plot consistency work?
GruntBlender@reddit
That's kinda my point. You could either listen to the director, or open the door to all sorts of interpretations that ignore the director's intent.
BobSacamano47@reddit
Art is open to interpretation, even if the artist had a specific intent.
bbbbaaaagggg@reddit
Author of the book: “the bugs attacked earth with an asteroid”
Director of the movie: “the bugs attacked earth with an asteroid”
Media literate redditor: “erm akshually it’s open to interpretation guys”
BobSacamano47@reddit
It's not that crazy. A major theme of the film is the government constantly pushing propaganda and the characters eating it up. The viewer is supposed to question what they are being told.
GruntBlender@reddit
Yes, but if it's too vague, the artist's intent gets lost among the interpretations.
Teword@reddit
Oh and what is the message of the movie for you ?
GruntBlender@reddit
Clearly the message is that wine is superior to champagne.
gaythrowawayuwuwuwu@reddit
red or white?
holaprobando123@reddit
Depends on what you're eating
Teword@reddit
?
Mahajangasuchus@reddit
It really couldn’t be more clear that the humans are bad guys and you’re not supposed to unironically sympathize with the earth government.
Dootguy37@reddit
More like incapable of comprehending the concept of both things are bad, in thier mind theres always the good guy and the bad guy, moral grayness is beyond thier cognitive abilities
imthatguy8223@reddit
Nah it’s just a really bad allegory. Anything that defends our species from extinction is automatically better than the alternative.
Dootguy37@reddit
"Defends our species form extinction" which in the movie was not threatened by the bugs, have you ever heard the term "Manufactured consent"?
Jujubees1269@reddit
Very funny. Now, face the wall.
SuperArppis@reddit
Or played Helldivers 2.
Notorik@reddit
Or Warhammer 40k.
Malice0801@reddit
How does 40k fit? Who would consider the Tyranids to be the good guys?
Fucking_That_Chicken@reddit
the Q'Orl give advance written notice of their territorial claims, which I'm pretty sure does actually qualify them as the good guy
it's a pretty low bar
Payment_Abject@reddit
not even joking when I say the tyranids are the most morally correct faction (they do not eat out of hate or malice, but to get biomass)
GriffithDidNothinBad@reddit
I’m a Tyranid player and I always hate this take. Tyranids are objectively one of the worst factions
Malice0801@reddit
Greed is just as evil as hate. What is moral about consuming to the point of obliterating every other organism around you?
Thendrail@reddit
Well, first you start praying to the four-armed Emperor...
EorlundGraumaehne@reddit
Funny... now face the wall!
thedman9052@reddit
Helldivers is much better satire than Verhoeven's Starship Troopers
ShmootheJoo@reddit
Can't wait to read all the comments saying "HuMaNiTy aRn'T ThE gOoD GuYs!" 🙄
DevelopmentTight9474@reddit
I see the people without media literacy have filtered into the comments
I-Am-Polaris@reddit
Socialists can't stop sympathizing with bugs more than humanity
JuanchiB@reddit
Not surprising, they're the same species.
Mr_Evanescent@reddit
It's all so tiresome
G4130@reddit
Hitler was human you bigot!
mangoes_now@reddit
ITT: reddit smartbois who never read the book.
Desert_Aficionado@reddit
The theme of the movie is "the book is wrong." Anon's dumb take (bait?) can be explained without going to that deep.
Salamadierha@reddit
The theme of the movie is "Bug Hunt on Outpost X", with a slight tie-in to try to monetise the Starship Troopers Book.
yomer123123@reddit
The book is pro-fasicm/militirism, the movie satirises the book's message, it absolutely is saying "the book is wrong"
And also, hot take, the book is wrong. "Go be a soldier, its the peak of masculinity and you should die for your country" is really rich coming from a guy who was never in a combat role and never risked his life for anyone else. Yeah "death of the author" yadda yadda, but that less apllies to political manifestos.
Paxona@reddit
No, it very much is not. Verhoeven is an idiot who made cool movies despite being an idiot, and Showgirls proves it.
Heinlein was a prolific writer, he wrote about a dude who lives hundreds of years and travels in time to fuck his mom, free love martian saint michael and other stuff, so how can you say he was defending that position instead of non-stop sex parties?
pwillia7@reddit
Thou art god -- All that groks is god
Paxona@reddit
You got down voted because no one read Heinlein in this godforsaken site.
Firlite@reddit
Those aren't the same thing. In fact, citizen soldiery is a cornerstone in the development of democracy, from the athenian citizen soldier to the English yeoman, when free men start to be forced to fight, they tend to start clamoring for a say in that fight.
If anything professional soldiery is the cornerstone of authoritarianism, look at Rome with the Marian reforms or the absolute monarchies of the 1700s. Or, hell, on a less dramatic scale look at the response to Vietnam with draftees vs Iraq with a professional army
Iguana_Boi@reddit
Everytime this subject comes up, I feel the need to throw my hat into the ring
To me, the bugs aren't meant to be the good guys, or the victims. They're meant to be a reflection of humanity. Both civilizations have effectively conquered their galaxies, but humanity justifies what they do through things like "The glory of war," "Patriotism," and stuff like that. The bugs do the same thing, but they don't feel the need to justify what they do. They are a hivemind, a shared consciousness who do what they're told because it's what they have to do.
The Arachnids are meant to represent humanity of we stopped lying to ourselves to justify conflict. We don't start wars or conquer things for glory, honor, or religion, we do it because it's in our nature. The bugs are human. The bugs and mankind are meant to be one in the same. Thousands of fodder bugs are sent to be butchered by humanity, all faceless, nameless creatures with no purpose or higher calling but to die and rot away in service of someone who views them as an expendable means to an end, like how the brass views the soldiers.
The only thing I hate more than smug pseudo-intellectuals, are even more smug pseudo-intellectuals who act like they're smarter than the other pseudo-intellectuals
TheVojta@reddit
yeah but fuck 'em bugs anyway
AAS02-CATAPHRACT@reddit
Finally, someone else who's thinking the same thing I've been thinking about this movie
yomer123123@reddit
Interesting take, and pretty close to the original bood, ie the bugs are communists. Or "correct" communists, because they are a hivemind.
I think the book take is slighty more interesting. Yeah the bugs are sent to their death by the millions, but they arent individuals, they are designed and born to be fighters for the brain bugs. Its more comparable if the humans were using robots. Its sort of morally defendable, if it wasnt a war of aggression in the book.
crimsonfukr457@reddit (OP)
I'm taking away your cooking license
Cuz i'm promoting you to a certfified chef.
Chakramer@reddit
Both sides of a conflict can be bad with a couple of innocents stuck with no choice but to fight.
Shirokuma247@reddit
Helldiver players gaining a moment of clarity before the next brainwashing
EorlundGraumaehne@reddit
Now face the wall!
4thelasttimeIMNOTGAY@reddit
I always thought it was funny how the intended meaning of the book and the intended meaning of the movie are exactly the opposite. And to make it even more confusing, people take the opposite of the intended meaning of each.
Stinky_WhizzleTeats@reddit
How did the bugs send a meteor to Buenos Aires? Explain that fascists
2OptionsIsNotChoice@reddit
The bugs in the books have space traveling "bug ships", remember they are supposed to be a civilization/species that controls multiple planets. With that in mind simply using a bunch of ships to "push" a meteor/asteroid could work.
Further in the movie they even show bug "artillery" being able to shoot out of planetary orbit and into space to hit human space ships. So not only can they track things out of the planetary orbit, they can accurately hit them with potent weapons... if you can do that you can in theory aim at and hit a meteor to change its course.
ComicBookFanatic97@reddit
The director of the movie straight up hated the source material, which makes him a weird choice, but it worked out. The movie still has a cult following.
Omegastar19@reddit
Not really, because the script wasn't based on the book either, the writer (who isn't Paul Verhoeven) originally had an entirely unique story that shared elements with Starship Troopers, and he was only able to get it produced if he agreed to alter the story to technically make it a Starship Troopers script.
Firlite@reddit
Yup, the original script was called "big hunt on planet 9" or something
downvoting_zac@reddit
These guys absolutely cannot handle a movie having multiple messages and interpretations
Tutwater@reddit
I think I agree with Ebert's take on Starship Troopers, which is "once it's clear that it's a satire, it's just grim and miserable to watch and has no levity or heart at all"
Either you're the type of person whose appreciation of art begins and ends with 'it looks cool' — "woah, hot people shooting bugs, badass!" — or you get it, and are just watching a soulless military-propaganda movie made by a government that doesn't exist
Omegastar19@reddit
Lmao, thats just a terrible take. Why on earth would satire stop being funny because you figured out its satire? Wouldn't that make pretty much all satire not funny by definition?
yomer123123@reddit
I really disagree, its still a fun film with good lines and great worldbuilding
Its just a 40k situation: there are no good guys, everyone suck. You can cheer for the little personal victories, but the system as a whole is not going to be solved by the end of the plot.
BobSacamano47@reddit
I appreciate both things equally.
OldManChino@reddit
Dizzys tits 🤝 the Gestapo uniforms for Dougie howzer
G4130@reddit
The times I've watched it, is because I've stumbled upon it on tv, I'd never make the time to just watch it.
And I think you can be both, when the message is obvious you can still stick to the hot action pretending there's no message.
mc-big-papa@reddit
Starship trooper is surprisingly pro fascist and its insane how often it is. Its also completely accidental its not in the themes but entirely plot.
A government mobilized its forces in weeks. Had a strict code of conduct that it followed even during war time. When a general openly makes a mistake is immediately replaced with a more competent one disregarding any red tape or party lines (maybe). These were all pro fascist moves and the benefits of a fascist government.
TheeScribe2@reddit
It’s almost like
Bear with me
Propaganda shows the benefits of a system, and doesn’t talk about its severe drawbacks or question itself
Man, someone should really satire by mimicking fascist propaganda, giving it a story that appears extremely smooth brain popcorn movie on the outside, and show how many people will chest thump an extremely overtly fascist government if theyre only fed what that government wants them to see and give them an almost cartoonish “good guys” versus “bad guys” story
I’m sure that film would be a cult classic
DarkishFriend@reddit
One thing I have always wondered is why does a guy from Beunos Aires know how to play Wish I Was In Dixie. It's a marching song from a 300 year old country that existed for 4 years. He's right out of high school, either his parents taught him the song, or school did.
trentshipp@reddit
Why would a hyper-militarized society that glorifies its military past not co-opt a well known war song and use it for their purposes? It would be easy enough for them to present the Lost Cause narrative and make it a source of pride for Southerners in their military. The Marines still use the nickname given to them over a hundred years ago, this is the kind of shit that militaries eat up.
DarkishFriend@reddit
That was kinda the point I was trying to make? Also, it is weird. Starship troopers takes place in the 23rd century, the CSA existed 500 years prior to the story. They also live on a completely different continent, but considering the lingua franca is English and all of the characters in the movie are white despite living in South America it means you can draw some inferences. Like I said, either his parents taught him that song, or the school did. So it begs the question as to why their society is teaching that song to their children. Maybe its because, as you said, they live in a hyper-militarized society that glorifies violence?
trentshipp@reddit
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Authoritarians love to bring up cultural mythology to inspire their troops into thinking they're "special". Look at the Nazis and Germanic myth imagery, or Fascist Italy and Ancient Rome.
Easyqon@reddit
INFECTS WITH INTELLIGENCE?!! HAVE YOU EVERY MET ONE?!!
littletoyboat@reddit
Frankly, I find the idea of a bug that thinks oh-fence-ive!
Topkekx13@reddit
It's fucking insane how vocal the anti-media literacy groups are when their only take is 'nuh uh'
skiploom188@reddit
next we analyze his subverted penis bravo weiner
Tin_Philosopher@reddit
First try at critical thought was to assert dominance over a man by examining his genitals.
Real gay.
rayschoon@reddit
One thing that I picked up on in starship troopers was that they blamed the bugs for sending a meteorite at Rio, but the bug planet is so far away that it would’ve taken thousands of years for a rock to travel from there to here. I think that was part of the point, that it was a false flag
asdfman2000@reddit
No, the director was just a moron.
The meteorite that hit BA was the one that almost took out Carmen’s ship when she was flirting with that navy dude.
Salamadierha@reddit
Let us not even try to contemplate an asteroid travelling god knows how many light years in normal space some how, coming close enough to a ship to create a "gravity field" enough to affect a cup of coffee and knocking off part of the ship!
As they say, "never tell me the odds".
FallenSegull@reddit
Would you like to know more? 4chan anons executed for failing to contribute to society. Not a single one among them were even trying to become citizens! Their ringleader, the man wearing a foxtail buttplug, can be seen here crying and begging for mercy. Good riddance!
Would you like to know more?
silmarp@reddit
I watched this movie a long time ago and it was like the author is saying war prisoners and prejudiced ethnicities are like insects or something.
GruntBlender@reddit
The author is trying to say fascism is bad, but presents it as a happy and prosperous society that's unfair to genocidal aliens.
throwawae04@reddit
The point is that horrible things are still horrible even if they're atrractive. It makes a point about how much relies on aesthetics.
Teword@reddit
You are completely lost on the message of the movie if you think the human civilization in this movie is prosperous. The end make it really clear, that the regime is sending teen because they are loosing.
GruntBlender@reddit
I understand the message, I'm saying the movie is incompetent at conveying it and keeps shooting itself in the foot.
Teword@reddit
Why would the movie be incompetent at conveying it’s message if you understood it ?
What do you mean you think the movie shoot himself in the foot ? Are you one of those people, that understand that the human are leaving under a fascist regime, who is losing the war, but fail to consider the fascist regime as bad because "muh city looks clean and soldiers look cool" ?
GruntBlender@reddit
I mean that the movie is undermining the message it's trying to convey by disregarding the majority of the problems with fascism and hoping that merely pointing out the presented society is fascist is enough to show people it's bad. You have to assume the conclusion to arrive at it. Taken at face value, it can be interpreted as a defense of fascism that claims the few downsides it presents are a worthwhile sacrifice. That in itself makes it bad at property conveying its message. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
Teword@reddit
Then you don’t completely understand the message of the movie, you don’t understand that the movie is also trying to warn people, that fascism can present itself in multiple ways, and in the case of the movie it presents itself as a good looking society. If the movie was less subtle about the fact the regime is a fascist one, the movie would be far less interesting.
GruntBlender@reddit
Do you also think the bugs didn't attack Earth?
Teword@reddit
I think taht doesn't matter to be honest
GruntBlender@reddit
Seeing as it's the catalyst for the war the movie centers around, I think it's pretty important.
Teword@reddit
Not really, if it’s a false flags the war still occurs.
If the asteroid was the catalyst for the rise of the fascist regime I would agree more, but it’s not the case.
StanIsHorizontal@reddit
The point in making the humans look sexy and cool is to show you that fascism doesn’t always look like history channel documentaries on hitler rallies with evil music and scenes from concentration camps. Propaganda can make it look very appealing, even while it’s destroying your society by throwing young people into a violent meat grinder to justify its own ideology
GruntBlender@reddit
Too bad the movie itself presents it as a war of survival against a genocidal enemy.
In this context, that describes the allies in WW2 just as much as the axis. At least present the war as pointless through subtext that contrasts in-world propaganda.
StanIsHorizontal@reddit
It does, you just didn’t see it or didn’t want to
hundenkattenglassen@reddit
And the movie presents it with glorious tiddies that still lives rent free in my head, more than 20 years after I watched it the first time.
ColdBloodBlazing@reddit
But, the Arachnids never actually ate anyone.
EvokerJuice@reddit
incoming hoard of autistic people here to explain the plot/meaning of starship troopers
tonnuminat@reddit
Just watched the movie for the first time yesterday and now I stumble over this post. It do be like that sometimes.
Dissasterix@reddit
'The exact words of the text. But do you unersand it? Do you believe it?'
ward777@reddit
I thought this was hunterXhunter
LonkerinaOfTime@reddit
Who’s that a jak of 😭
Nay-the-Cliff@reddit
Anon is a bugman
Arstanishe@reddit
anon is a bugger
Lecteur_K7@reddit
Would