My replacement has no idea what they're doing.
Posted by dRaidon@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 113 comments
Not in the US and according to contract I'm stuck here for a while.
Which is fine but my replacement has no idea what they're doing. What's worse, they have no troubleshooting instinct.
This will not end well.
skydiveguy@reddit
Not. Your. Problem.
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
Thing is that it is my problem for several more months.
teksean@reddit
No, you are leaving, so if they can't do the job that is a management problem and they should replace them.
fresh-dork@reddit
document, document, offer suggestions
skydiveguy@reddit
I gave my notice at my last job and gave them almost 3 weeks. They decided to wait until the last two days to approach me about a knowledge transfer. I basically twiddled my thumbs waiting for them to approach me about it. I did what I could in the remaining t o days and left. It’s was not stress out one bit. It’s not the outgoing employees job to make sure the replacement is a good fit. In fact, I don’t think anyone replacing me would do what I do up to the standards I set for myself.
Majik_Sheff@reddit
Same for my last job. I ended up spending my last few days organizing and cleaning up my files. Documented any odds and ends I could think of and handed off any vendor contacts.
I did my best to cleanly hand off the clients I was responsible for. No real interest from management.
I got calls from several of my clients in the months after leaving. I hate leaving them in the lurch, but I can only do so much when I'm the only one interested in meeting the individual needs of my clients.
JavaKrypt@reddit
You can lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink, whatever the saying is
Pass over the info, that's your job now. It's not your responsibility to teach them the skills to do said job if they don't understand it
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
I also have to answer all the questions and fix things that breaks.
Status_Jellyfish_213@reddit
Then you tell management training wheels stay on until they stop breaking things.
Do you have a test environment?
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
We do have a test environment. Sadly it's also the production environment.
ProfessionalEven296@reddit
Let me rephrase that...
"No, we do not have a testing environment"
MikeS11@reddit
I think OP knows that, it’s just a joke often quoted. “Everybody has a testing environment, but not everybody has a separate production environment.”
tacotacotacorock@reddit
This explains a lot about your organization
Status_Jellyfish_213@reddit
Well
Well
That’s not good.
To be fair we have for Jamf, but for not for intune due to some licensing fuckery by Microsoft. If it’s a similar situation for you might be best to take a test device, segment that into its own group and get him to supply policies to that until they stop fucking up
bard329@reddit
But do you have to?
awnawkareninah@reddit
Are you staying with the company or are you just training your replacement til youre fired?
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
Staying with the company.
tacotacotacorock@reddit
Get management involved? Hopefully you're not be coming their manager lol
fatbergsghost@reddit
Do you have a week off?
Take it.
Lylieth@reddit
You only "problem" should be information hand off. It's not your responsibility to teach them how to be a tech. The company chose them, it was their responsibility to choose the right replacement, so that aspect of what is occurring is on them; not you.
notospez@reddit
Why, are you their manager? If not: report to your manager that the new person doesn't have a clue and they need to find a replacement.
reegz@reddit
In writing, be sure that it’s in writing and also if you can give some examples of why you’re concerned.
SolarPoweredKeyboard@reddit
Cleaning up the mess the new guy makes could count as their problem.
MalletNGrease@reddit
Sounds like billable hours to me.
Bright_Tangerine_557@reddit
Do they expect you to train the guy on how to work IT? If he can't do basic troubleshooting, I'm not sure you can do much to fix that.
Ransom_James@reddit
Not really, make sure you have a paper trace of every handover session/document/whatever you provided to the new guy and just shrug when asked why something's in the shitter.
You did your job and have proof, not your fault your manager/HR hired someone incompetent. If anything they didn't do their job.
Specialist_Ad_712@reddit
Thisn exactly. After you’re gone. Not you problem anymore. Along with any requests for any kind of support or discussion afterwards. Unless it’s tied to an expensive support contract for yourself. 😊
teksean@reddit
Totally correct. I retired this summer and told them not to call as I do not work for free. I had no urge to contract out. No free answers and knowing the department issues would just stress me (out of habit), so no news is good news.
GhostNode@reddit
While I agree that it isn't OPs problem, if OP has to stick around for a while, I DO feel for someone who is being put in a position, every day, to have to explain that you can't just show someone in an hour what has taken 10s of years in a career to learn.
MrCertainly@reddit
This right here.
"Oh well!" And that's the extent of it.
ReptilianLaserbeam@reddit
I had to learn this the hard way when younger. My ex manager gave my personal number to my replacement and the guy kept texting me almost daily asking me for stuff until I blocked him. I should have gave him an hour rate from the beginning and not answer any questions for free
awnawkareninah@reddit
Was gonna say I'm gonna tag this issue as NMP and go about my day.
Larkshade@reddit
Yeah, it took me a while to learn this too, but if a company wanted to replace me with an idiot, well, I'll do the best I can up until my contract is done, then it's their problem and if they want my help with something my hourly rate just tripled.
BanGreedNightmare@reddit
Perfectly said.
teksean@reddit
I didn't have a replacement. I just retired, turned off the lights, and left. I have made a point of not asking anyone that is still there how things are going. It is just not my problem anymore. They never replaced anyone, so that's for them to deal with now.
patjuh112@reddit
I on a daily base work with "sysadmins" that fit that description and have nearly no basic understanding on IT related things and they are with companies that I now work with for many, many years and they are still there. Somehow they manage to survive
ErikTheEngineer@reddit
Unfortunately, just like the rest of the world, the extroverts who can sell themselves are the ones who get jobs, get promotions, etc. It's not about intelligence and that was a hard realization for someone who, while not a genius by any means, is competent.
occasional_cynic@reddit
Other companies are happy to have a seat filled with a warm body as long as they are willing to work for a low salary. Seen it inside and outside of IT, in both the public and private sectors.
TheFluffiestRedditor@reddit
Or, their MSP-like contract only pays them if there is a warm body in the seat. One previous place of incompetence promoted a helpdesk guy to Virtualisation Administrator, just so they could get the extra dollars. The guy was barely competent at helpdesk, and had never even logged into a VMware console before.
Watch for the financial incentives, as they will tell you where the business effort will be directed.
music2myear@reddit
As an extrovert in a senior sysadmin role after 24 years in IT, stepping up slowly, and dealing with normal levels of imposter syndrome: I'm going to go home and drink something stiff now.
NighTborn3@reddit
Bro you're posting here. You're fine lol. Leaps and bounds ahead of the people we're talking about.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
I missed the part where that's your problem.
rimekJE@reddit
I got promoted inside of my department, when they hired a new employee, a girl. She has CCNA completed but doing Helpdesk work, which shouldn't be an issue, as her CV showed her working Helpdesk before.
I'm not being sexist or something, but my God, I have never seen someone that clueless and with 0 troubleshooting instinct. It's been a year since she's on the Helpdesk, she still asks about the most basic things on how to even connect to the user etc
On the other hand, she won't listen for an advice for her lifes sake. She's the smartest one, Already hated by a lot of end users, while I was their favourite.
Academic_Ad1931@reddit
If it was a male employee would you have said you didn't mean to be sexist? You say you're not being sexist but these are the underhanded comments that very much appropriate sexism. The fact the employee is "a girl" has nothing to do with their abilities, so doesn't need mentioning.
ChaoticEvilRaccoon@reddit
you sound like you dye your hair in a bright colour
Academic_Ad1931@reddit
Lol, does that make you a fat, bald, 50 year old man?
I'm as average as you can get. TBF I have a wife who has suffered time and time again with underhand comments like this all the way through her career. Mine comes from a place of calling out bigots and if I'll do it in person I'll damn well do it online.
iwinsallthethings@reddit
Remove the gender from the equation: A new HD person is terrible. They can't troubleshoot their way out of a wet paper bag. The users hate them.
Now the gender does not matter and the same message minus the sex is conveyed.
fatbergsghost@reddit
It's complex, because I agree with you, but also I get why that guy felt he needed to say that.
If you're generally aware of the discrimination that exists, it can be hard to say that the girl in your department sucks. Even though she specifically sucks.
On the other hand, it just kind of sounds like "I'm not racist but". Nobody who isn't about to say something racist needs that caveat. At the same time, there are specific things that maybe someone wanted to talk about, that aren't necessarily racist that are now tainted because we're assuming that they're going to be racist.
Also, racists don't walk around being racist all the time. They just hold racist thoughts and feelings inside, and these come out randomly. But generally, the signals are very subtle, they're not making this a thing that people are constantly conscious of.
iwashere33@reddit
No, because there are lots of times if a guy says something is bad, and it's A girl doing the bad thing, the man must be sexiest. E.g. she hulk was bad but we MUST celebrate it because it was made by woman
gbfm@reddit
If you take over the tasks that she is supposed to do, that jobscope will become permanently yours.
SPMrFantastic@reddit
Give him the tools to be able to take over. If he doesn't know how to use those tools that's not on you, that's on HR and Management for hiring someone who's not qualified.
ClusterFugazi@reddit
Do you have documentation?
TruthSeekerWW@reddit
Document your handover. Recordings of teams sessions, emails etc.
When the time comes and they call you refer to the documents and if they want more offer consultancy rates at 4x your salary with a block of 10 days purchased in advance and must be used within 45days used in 1/2day blocks
MegaOddly@reddit
do your job. Make sure things are documented it aint your problem once you leave
mailboy79@reddit
Not your circus, not your monkeys.
This gives me a chance to (re)tell the story of my experiences with those from the Great Subcontinent.
The year is 2008. I was working in a 4-person group of MS Exchange administrators. Our employer (a three-letter entity with a blue logo) informed me and my workmate (an elderly greybeard fellow that taught me all there was to know about Exchange at this work site) that we were "too expensive to employ" and that our new work duties were to "train" our eventual replacements, who we later learned were two individuals from the Great Subcontinent. We were to be given a severance check as a final payment as reward for this endeavor which was several weeks of pay at once.
We were given an Excel workbook with an extensive list of duties to teach these two individuals. Upon reviewing the document, my workmate, (to be known from here on as $GB), said to me: "Hey $mailboy79, this list is pretty extensive, how are we going to teach them our Exchange practices in four weeks?"
I calmly told him:
$GB, we can teach them all we want, but that doesn't guarantee that they are going to actually learn anything, does it? So just check the boxes off of this form as you go along, and make sure that you sign it, so that on quitting day, you get paid. Understand?
$GB: That's brilliant, $mailboy79! I never would have figured it out in quite that way.
$GB got to teach them some Exchange-related practices, but his particular trainee never really asked the type of questions that a "Windows Server Administrator" might ask if he was in a new environment.
I was tasked to teach my trainee how to build "Conference Rooms" (essentially shared mailboxes with an auto-attendant that staff used to schedule meetings with shared space) and to ensure that they knew the "best practices" for handling disaster recovery procedures in the organization. For the DR stuff, they had to attend and observe a series of four meetings with stakeholders present.
The first DR meeting comes... and goes... they fail to attend. I call one of them up on the telephone to find out "what happened":
$mailboy79: So $bozo1, why did you miss the DR meeting? I had about a dozen people lined up and waiting to meet you.
$bozo1: I was busy with $bozo2 doing "important stuff" (NGL)
$mailboy79: "It is vitally important that you attend these meetings. If you come in to them unprepared, you are going to be facing many unhappy people."
$bozo1: I'm so sorry...
To cut a long story short, both $bozo1 and $bozo2 missed the next three meeting instances. I called $bozo1 on the telephone after the final DR meeting had concluded:
$mailboy79: "$bozo1, I need to know why you have not attended any of these important DR meetings! You have missed your final opportunity to meet with the stakeholders before I am gone from this place forever."
$bozo1: "Well, $bozo2 and me were hoping that you could set up a special meeting to meet these people privately."
$mailboy79: That's not going to happen. These are not IT staff. The have actual work to do for their employer and don't have the time for special meetings for you two."
$bozo1: "Oh, I guess we should have attended those meetings then."
$mailboy79: "Yup. goodbye."
Beyond this, I was specifically tasked with training $bozo1 on how to create the Conference Rooms mentioned previously. He failed to appear for several scheduled training opportunities, so I set about making full-scale documentation complete with pictograms, procedures, diagrams, and the like.
At 3:20 PM on my last scheduled working day, $bozo1 calls my telephone:
$bozo1: "I had a question..."
$mailboy79: "What's the question, $bozo1?"
$bozo1: "How do you build a Conference Room?"
$mailboy79: "I'd strongly advise you to consult the documentation i wrote on that topic. If you don't know what to do after reading it, contact our manager. If you don't know what to do after that, call our supervisor, and if you don't know what to do after that, call the director. If you do not know what to do after making this series of telephone calls, I don't know what to tell you because it is 3:30 on a Friday, and my work day is over. Goodbye."
I met up with $GB and asked him how it went with $bozo2. He indicated that the poor slob was clueless.
When I turned in my company property to get my check from our line manager, it was the closest that I had seen any man cry outside of my immediate family. He didn't know what to do now that we were leaving.
We later learned that $bozo1 and $bozo2 spent their time in the company cafeteria babbling in Hindi to others from the Great Subcontinent. They were "fired" shortly after I left, and the worksite was run into the ground to the cost of multimillions of dollars.
True story.
elzissou710@reddit
So what. Go cry your car.
arwinda@reddit
Explain first how you arrived in this situation.
Are you promoted and the new hire is getting your old job? Were you involved in the hiring process?
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
Company lost a contract renewal.
arwinda@reddit
You are training someone from a different supplier? Hell, no. Not my job.
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
Our contract says it is.
Lylieth@reddit
I feel you might not be accurate on exactly what this contract states is your specific responsibility. I'm not sure why you've assumed it to mean you are some how responsible to ensure your replacement is a good one overall. IF that was actually the case, you'd have been responsible for hiring the new company and their techs.
STOP putting this all on your shoulders.
dRaidon@reddit (OP)
Alright, that's fair. They have access to all the documentation, they have system access.
I'll answer questions if asked, otherwise I'll let them do their thing while I do my work updating documentation and working tickets.
Lylieth@reddit
All you can do! I have been there too. MSP's contract wasn't renewed and I was tasked with information sharing and being available for assistance for up to 60 days past our contract. The former customer tried to argue we were responsible for also training their replacement; the owners teenage nephew.
Legal had some fun with that one, lol.
arwinda@reddit
Lol, available after contract ends, that's a good one.
Lylieth@reddit
JUST for questions. It was even outlined that it could not take more than 30min a day and recommended via email!
Instead, they thought I'd be available to not only answer questions but to also give steps on solutions. Ummm... no?
arwinda@reddit
That's a 3x charge for every 30 minutes. You want services after the contract ends, because you switched service providers? Pay up for this.
Lylieth@reddit
They paid for it...
arwinda@reddit
Ah, ok, that extension was not clear from your wording. Then yes, do what's agreed on and paid for.
arwinda@reddit
Ah, ok, that extension was not clear from your wording. Then yes, do what's agreed on and paid for.
arwinda@reddit
That's a problem for your boss. Not for you.
RubAnADUB@reddit
hand off, then leave. If they cant hire someone who is competent that's not your bag.
throwmeoff123098765@reddit
This is not your problem
SoCalSysEngineer@reddit
It's your job to train, not to make sure the information it retained. Do the best you can within your work day and move on with life. Not your clown, not your circus.
Lylieth@reddit
Repeat after me:
There are so many you could choose from...
WWGHIAFTC@reddit
I did this once. I sat in the conference room for 3 hours with my boss / CEO, and the new guy replacing me (good terms)
I stepped through network diagrams, site to site connectivity (80 or so locations), naming standards, backup process, SAN & VM host ISCSI details, configurations, everything. Presented right form my own documentation that clearly spelled it all out. He didn't survive his probation period.
Blank stares and no good questions from the new guy. Absolute fear on the face of the CEO as he finally saw what I did for the company, and knowing that the new guy wasn't up to the task.
signalcc@reddit
Dude are you me? Long story short I was leaving my company to move away. I was the only sysadmin. I helping I the hiring of this guy they looked great on paper. I trained him for 6 months. He seemed to know what was going on. I moved and still occasionally help out remotely on certain things. The occasional has become daily as the more things happen the more he shows he has no idea what to do with anything. It’s like he has never troubleshot anything in his life. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Exception-Rethrown@reddit
As stated before, Not Your Problem!
However, it might be an opportunity. If they reach out and ask for help, be prepared. Put together a list of what it would take (and how many $$$, payable in advance of course), it would take for you to help them out. You don’t have any obligation if you don’t want to (or can’t), but t might be worth considering…
EEU884@reddit
document, prepare handover brief and chill. Not your monkey not your circus.
Fun-Fun-9967@reddit
not your problem - something I am sorely looking forward to
aes_gcm@reddit
This isn’t your fault. Its a failure in the interview and scrutiny process. Yeah it’s going to go poorly. I would recommend closing things out on good terms, don’t burn bridges, and just hand over as much knowledge and documentation as you can.
ErikTheEngineer@reddit
I wish we could figure this out before I retire. I understand that many tech jobs have 1000+ applicants, and a lot of them aren't qualified to work the fryer at McDonald's, let alone a complex set of technical equipment. But whatever we're doing seems to select for two types of individuals -- the know-nothing, gladhanding, backslapping salesbro "tech" dude, and the know-it-all who happens to know the answer to every trivia question the interview panel asked them, or jump through whatever coding exam hoops they put up.
There's got to be a better way to match up qualified individuals with jobs. I lost an opportunity early this year with a company I really wanted to work for; I could have easily done the basics and grown into whatever they needed (25+ years of very diverse experience) but they chose to spend an entire day rotating interviewers in and out with me asking trivia questions that I only partially knew. It was obvious about halfway through that they had already labeled me an idiot.
aes_gcm@reddit
I mean, this is interview training, it's a whole meta to learn how to prepare for this and answer questions in a pleasing way. This is why there's often some kind of technical project/challenge, or a cultural fit interview. I think those would help to weed out the people faking it.
wideace99@reddit
Unless the punishment for cheating is something horrible this is a utopia, since corruption with money or others favors will make imposters certified :(
At least in my country, (U.E) due to corruption, you can buy any certification... you should try driving a car in such a place !
Otto-Korrect@reddit
Management where I am have no clue about what makes a good IT worker. I'm 100% sure a pretty resume and being well spoken at an interview can win them over.
I fear that I'll be replaced with somebody that makes management comfortable but has no IT instincts... But that's not my problem.
cowboi@reddit
Every time you show them something have them sign off ans acknowledge, so you can't be blamed for them not knowing.
Impossible_IT@reddit
Think I've heard the phrase "not your monkey, not your circus" before.
NowThatHappened@reddit
As my grandfather used to say, can't fix stupid, just don't try.
Cormacolinde@reddit
I say “Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is terminal”.
NowThatHappened@reddit
Oh I like that one :)
stxonships@reddit
Figure out how much you can charge per hour once you are gone and they need help when your replacement breaks something major.
AV-Guy1989@reddit
Ugh.....I've had this but much worse. Was at a job for 7 years. Documented every damn thing and when I went to move on they had me come in to show the new guy around. It was about 4 minutes in to the first conversation I knew my baby was doomed. Struggled to grasp what a vlan is, didn't know anything about CCTV, was surprised by "how massive and loud" the R730 servers were in the rack, didn't grasp VOIP, and couldn't understand a diagram or cabling layout for his life. 3.5 hears later I checked in with an old coworker and they have weekly outages that all get blamed on poor previous documentation and non standard configurations of which is BULLSHIT! Might be non standard to you because you were surprised by "oh dhcp isn't on the router, that's weird"
william_tate@reddit
Sorry, you always have 6 months after the previous guy left to blame them for any issues, after that you are on your own. Sounds like they have a lenient business that doesn’t understand that golden rule.
Help_Stuck_In_Here@reddit
Unless you work for the government, then you can predecessor from over a decade ago.
AV-Guy1989@reddit
Sometimes it's best to just move on.
ProfessionalEven296@reddit
Document what you've trained this person on. You can't document how much they've actually absorbed, but when someone comes to you (because you're staying in the same company) asking "Did you teach Mr X about this??, you can say Yes, you did it on ddd day and it's documented in the zzzz file. After that it's his problem.
Patrickrobin@reddit
You're in for quite the adventure!
MostMediocreModeler@reddit
I'm going to focus on the troubleshooting part, just because.
I can teach technical skills and soft skills. Troubleshooting is a lot harder to teach and some people just don't have the aptitude for it. It kind of goes with critical thinking skills. I consider troubleshooting a vital part of sysadminery and my interview questions for candidates reflect this. Something as simple as, "A user reports a printer isn't working, what do you do?" can be quite telling.
nmonsey@reddit
Any chance you have anyone who you can trust that you can talk to at the company?
The manager or people who hired the person may have been reading questions from a script.
After you leave the person may complain that they were not trained properly.
Some people may be able to do good in school and maybe pass a certification test and not be able to function independently in a technical job.
BrainWaveCC@reddit
For what purpose?
Creative_Onion_1440@reddit
Exactly. There's no reason to be bringing up concerns about your replacement after they cancelled your contract and went with another company. Even if you're right, it'll seem unprofessional and petty. They made their bed. They can lie in it. Just focus on documenting that you performed a good hand-off to the new sysadmin. If he's not up to snuff, not your problem.
Creative_Onion_1440@reddit
Just focus on making sure you did things right and document that you did so.
If you give him all the tools, documentation, passwords, scripts, etc. and he can't do the job it's possible he'll try to throw you under the bus.
It's nice to be able to point to all the things you did to ensure the new sysadmin has the appropriate resources if ever questioned.
fatbergsghost@reddit
They'll learn or die, like the rest of us.
Unable-Entrance3110@reddit
Were you not involved in the interview process at all? Seems like an oversight on the part of management... Ah well, they will get what they wanted....
jatorres@reddit
CYA. Document whatever needs to be documented (in plain language, avoid acronyms or jargon),emails for anything remotely important so you have a paper trail, and be patient and cordial with the replacement as best you can.
liftoff_oversteer@reddit
Have been in the same situation ("knowledge transfer" because the company moved overseas). But this problem is neither yours nor was it mine. I told my boss back then that my replacement is not up to the task but he did nothing so I wasn't bothered by it anymore.
multidollar@reddit
If this was somewhere like Australia we have probation when you’re hired. Typically 3-6 months long. The employer can sack you for any reason in that period and it’s designed to help with situations like this.
Unfortunately it takes a leadership decision which can be tough.
I’ve been where you are in a way. I’ve had a senior infra engineer who would be the dumbest person I know, and I have no idea how anyone could consider this person a technologist. I wasn’t present for the interview but this person must have read a book like “how to interview well for an IT role” because they simply had no skill.
But I was younger and previous behaviour had my leadership thinking I was just being a dick or a bit sensationalist or jealous or whatever. So they stuck with this person despite evidence I supplied.
BalderVerdandi@reddit
Do a proper handover. Document everything, make sure it's updated, then you send it to the replacement, his boss, your old boss, and HR.
If he can't do the job, it's literally not your problem. Your task is complete.
BrainWaveCC@reddit
Thankfully, that's not a concern you need to have, or a thought you need to entertain one way or the other.
nehnehhaidou@reddit
Why even care?
Bassflow@reddit
I deal with a lot of people onshore (USA) and offshore. It doesn't matter, these people are everywhere. I'm assuming you are at an MSP. Someone will pick up the slack or this person will be replaced. Fact of life.
drunkenitninja@reddit
Not your problem. Sounds like your management team is going to have a great time over the coming years.
i8noodles@reddit
yeah it aint your problem. i resigned and have a full month to teach my replacement. i have done exactly 0 of it because the manager cant get enough people on shift to have 2 people gone. ironically, the low staff levels are the reason i am leaving
BlazeReborn@reddit
You're on your way out.
Their loss. You did what you could.