They did, but the order book was supposed to be open by now. I was interested, but gave up after the last of info. Waiting till the scout terra hits the market and then I'll decide.
Hopefully, was supposed to be orderable by now. I bet it will get delayed again. I'm happy with my used diesel canyon for now. I'll get whichever ends up better in the late 2020s.
Take the range extender base from the Ramcharger, put an suv body on it, put it in the Chrysler brand and call it an Aspen and you’ve got yourself a hitter already.
They should be putting this setup in all of their models as an PHEV variant. They would sell so many of them. I don't understand why manufacturers can't see how much of an opportunity PHEVs present. Toyota is pushing PHEVs and are doing well. PHEVs with larger batteries is still a largely untapped market. Manufacturers really are dropping the ball.
Damn. I was actually really interested in the ram charger as a concept. Unfortunately it was going to be a Stellantis product so no doubt there would have been issues. But maybe it would have pushed a more reliable automaker to implement this.
That is a concern especially with the battery and electrical system. They've had 7 years to study and learn from the Pacifica PHEV with the 3.6L pentastar and EV motors. I'm hoping they are taking their time to refine the drivetrain and have learned the right lessons.
The 3.6L pentastar is solid. The ram trucks have become much more reliable over time. Yes, Stellantis products can be a reliability gamble but modern vehicles in general have become significantly more reliable even at Stellantis. Honestly, it's a gamble I'm willing to take.
Credit where credit is due, Stellantis/FCA actually learns from it's previous products. Unlike GM withs is arguably superior Voltec but decided to never utilize it beyond the single model that is the Volt.
You're absolutely correct. It was featured very, very early in Doug Demuro's channel too. It was only based off the first generation Volt right? No ELR based on the better second generation.
The Ramcharger is an EV with 150 miles (240 km) of range. The ICE motor is simply a range extender which pushes maximum range out to almost 700 miles (1,100 km). Since for more than 90% of trips the range required is less than 100 miles (160 km) the batteries alone are sufficient. For people traveling long distances or towing, the ICE range extender is a crucial add on that makes this vehicle practical and competitive with current ICE pickups unlike current EV pickups.
I don't care about an electric car. Who wants to bother with plugging one in? On the other hand, a V6 generator constantly spinning electric motors to get the instant torque and responsiveness of electric... That's intriguing.
I guess there might need to be some small battery in there to handle when you floor it up a mountain, but getting as small as possible would be my thought to save on the weight.
If I can get the instant torque/responsiveness of electric without ever needing to plug it in as it just runs on a gas generator, well that sounds awesome.
I don't care about an electric car. Who wants to bother with plugging one in?
Plugging one in takes less than 2 seconds, and to be honest - is kinda satisfying when you see the charging light come on and hear the beep. Charging it overnight (with lower electric rates in many places) costs far less than gas. And the overnight charge - even using a simple 110v outlet if that's all you have - is usually enough to get you where you need to go each day.
The best reason to have the gas generator is for long haul towing where pure EV mileage is often cut in half.
The biggest reason is: the Pentastar can’t output the same kW as the electric motors can, meaning using it as a generator would artificially weaken the EV motors.
It has 500kW of electric power (663hp). The Pentastar produces 130kW, per Stellantis. That means if you ONLY used the Pentastar as a power source, your 650HP truck would actually be a 175HP truck. Even if it magically could convert 100% of the Pentastar’s power to electricity (not a thing) you’d still be limited to the 305HP peak it was rated for, and you’d be running it flat out all the time.
The idea is that the Pentastar can provide enough power for cruising and charging when the demand is low, but the battery is required to supply the full power output of the driveline.
Only if you had a 0% SOC on the battery, but if it operates like other hybrids it will maintain the battery level at some SOC that allows it to output full power for a good amount of time anyway.
Basically the cluster may say 0% but it will likely have an extra 5% or so “hidden” so it can still drain that before actually dropping back to the Pentastar’s sole output.
Aside from the efficiency stuff people already mentioned, without batteries you don't get the electric-only drive mode. PHEVs appeal most to people who would be 90% covered driving a traditional EV, but don't want to rely on EV charging for long road trips, or for trucks specifically, towing.
The Ramcharger's claimed 145 miles EV range is insane for a PHEV. If you have a charger at home and a commute under 60 minutes, you'd reasonably never need to use gas unless you're going on a long road trip or towing.
You need a battery for a buffer, or the generator would have to be running close to full output all the time to anticipate a load. if the generator needs to rev up and down to save fuel, you would lose the instant torque or an ev waiting for the generator to rev up. Without a battery, the generator would also need to be powerful enough for the maximum load of the entire vehicle, like towing trailer in the summer up a mountian with the ac on. That's why it either needs to be a traditional hybrid or an ev with an extender, or the savings wont be there.
This is a series hybrid where the engine acts like a generator. The benefit is that the engine can operate at the exact peak efficiency point all the time. You can also target vibration modes and noise at that frequency to add sound dampening. Engineering wise, it's theoretically better.
However, the problem comes when you need to validate this on places like the Davis Dam for super steep uphill towing. The dead weight of the engine just becomes a drag.
The drive line has more losses and the cable between a battery and motor. The engine can also run a more efficient cycle if it's just charging a battery instead of powering the wheels directly. The battery is 100% necessary to make this function at all
What your describing is an electric gear box. That will have more losses than a mechanical gear box. Its really only useful in specific situations like trains.
Lets say your engine is most efficient at 2000 rpm and 20% load. How many roads are going to require that exact situation? Lets say your on a long flat back road and only need 50% of the above power. Well if you don't have a battery you are stuck running at a less efficient operating point. With a battery you can turn the motor on, run at your most efficient point, then turn the motor off when you have put enough power into the battery.
That's also ignoring the huge benefits of regenerative breaking. Ever wonder why hybrids get amazing in town MPG but just average MPG on highway? Hint, regenerative breaking.
Also this is a plug in hybrid, so you can charge it at home and drive on all electric like its an EV till the battery runs low. Then its a hybrid with all the benefits that come with that.
I’m not going to be able to do a good job explaining it either. You could very well be right that the batteries are redundant. I’m not sure. I just thought the idea of using a small gas motor to generate the power for electric motors would give you all the benefits of both. At the expense of a very complex power train that essentially no one outside of the manufacturer will be able to work on for a while.
Biggest concern for me is Chrysler stuff has had bad cooling systems for ages. The Ramcharger has one for the engine along with probably ones for the battery and inverter if it is anything like the Jeep 4Xe. Three cooling systems from a company that can’t make good ones is a recipe for trouble.
That said, the series hybrid is probably the best option for many people. I can’t charge at home so an EV makes zero sense but even if that weren’t the case I’d never buy an EV. Nothing on sale today other than maybe the Porsche does anything for me. And I will never achieve the station in life where I get to do anything more than admire Porsche models so that’s out. The Scout models look appealing but they’re vaporware for now.
Drzhivago138@reddit
Did anyone realistically expect it this year?
Saitoh17@reddit
I'm actually interested in the ram charger and I already said they weren't coming until 2025
KokrSoundMed@reddit
They did, but the order book was supposed to be open by now. I was interested, but gave up after the last of info. Waiting till the scout terra hits the market and then I'll decide.
truthdoctor@reddit (OP)
Hits the market sometime in 2028...The Ramcharger ships next year.
KokrSoundMed@reddit
Hopefully, was supposed to be orderable by now. I bet it will get delayed again. I'm happy with my used diesel canyon for now. I'll get whichever ends up better in the late 2020s.
truthdoctor@reddit (OP)
It's only been delayed 6 months. That was a surprise, since I was expecting a bigger delay to be honest.
ImHealingU@reddit
Take the range extender base from the Ramcharger, put an suv body on it, put it in the Chrysler brand and call it an Aspen and you’ve got yourself a hitter already.
truthdoctor@reddit (OP)
They should be putting this setup in all of their models as an PHEV variant. They would sell so many of them. I don't understand why manufacturers can't see how much of an opportunity PHEVs present. Toyota is pushing PHEVs and are doing well. PHEVs with larger batteries is still a largely untapped market. Manufacturers really are dropping the ball.
SophonsKatana@reddit
This is exactly what BYD does. A huge part of their sales are EREVs and PHEVs.
I myself drive a Toyota PHEV. It’s awesome. I just got 94 MPG on my last tank of gas.
SSLByron@reddit
We'll just get a Chrysler badge on the Wagoneer (which is getting this powertrain; Stellantis has basically said as much officially).
BIG-SAGGY-TITS@reddit
Damn. I was actually really interested in the ram charger as a concept. Unfortunately it was going to be a Stellantis product so no doubt there would have been issues. But maybe it would have pushed a more reliable automaker to implement this.
truthdoctor@reddit (OP)
That is a concern especially with the battery and electrical system. They've had 7 years to study and learn from the Pacifica PHEV with the 3.6L pentastar and EV motors. I'm hoping they are taking their time to refine the drivetrain and have learned the right lessons.
The 3.6L pentastar is solid. The ram trucks have become much more reliable over time. Yes, Stellantis products can be a reliability gamble but modern vehicles in general have become significantly more reliable even at Stellantis. Honestly, it's a gamble I'm willing to take.
nguyenm@reddit
Credit where credit is due, Stellantis/FCA actually learns from it's previous products. Unlike GM withs is arguably superior Voltec but decided to never utilize it beyond the single model that is the Volt.
KingFacetious@reddit
You’re forgetting about the hugely important Cadillac ELR! They sold dozens.
nguyenm@reddit
You're absolutely correct. It was featured very, very early in Doug Demuro's channel too. It was only based off the first generation Volt right? No ELR based on the better second generation.
KingFacetious@reddit
That’s right, it was based on the first-gen Voltec setup.
democracywon2024@reddit
I'm just confused by the concept and how it works. Nobody does a good job explaining this.
Like why would you not just use the v6 engine to power the generator to power the electric motors all the time and cut out the batteries entirely?
truthdoctor@reddit (OP)
The Ramcharger is an EV with 150 miles (240 km) of range. The ICE motor is simply a range extender which pushes maximum range out to almost 700 miles (1,100 km). Since for more than 90% of trips the range required is less than 100 miles (160 km) the batteries alone are sufficient. For people traveling long distances or towing, the ICE range extender is a crucial add on that makes this vehicle practical and competitive with current ICE pickups unlike current EV pickups.
Live-Habit-6115@reddit
Its an EV first and foremost. It can be operated in EV only mode using the batteries for about 90% of use cases.
The gas engine is just for long distances and towing.
I don't understand why people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around this kind of thing.
democracywon2024@reddit
I guess my point is:
I don't care about an electric car. Who wants to bother with plugging one in? On the other hand, a V6 generator constantly spinning electric motors to get the instant torque and responsiveness of electric... That's intriguing.
I guess there might need to be some small battery in there to handle when you floor it up a mountain, but getting as small as possible would be my thought to save on the weight.
If I can get the instant torque/responsiveness of electric without ever needing to plug it in as it just runs on a gas generator, well that sounds awesome.
Drzhivago138@reddit
That's like saying "who wants to bother with driving to a gas station?"
PixelSchnitzel@reddit
Plugging one in takes less than 2 seconds, and to be honest - is kinda satisfying when you see the charging light come on and hear the beep. Charging it overnight (with lower electric rates in many places) costs far less than gas. And the overnight charge - even using a simple 110v outlet if that's all you have - is usually enough to get you where you need to go each day.
The best reason to have the gas generator is for long haul towing where pure EV mileage is often cut in half.
hydrochloriic@reddit
The biggest reason is: the Pentastar can’t output the same kW as the electric motors can, meaning using it as a generator would artificially weaken the EV motors.
It has 500kW of electric power (663hp). The Pentastar produces 130kW, per Stellantis. That means if you ONLY used the Pentastar as a power source, your 650HP truck would actually be a 175HP truck. Even if it magically could convert 100% of the Pentastar’s power to electricity (not a thing) you’d still be limited to the 305HP peak it was rated for, and you’d be running it flat out all the time.
The idea is that the Pentastar can provide enough power for cruising and charging when the demand is low, but the battery is required to supply the full power output of the driveline.
democracywon2024@reddit
Ok, see now that makes sense. That's the explanation I needed to understand this tech lol.
In that case, the concern then becomes on a long tow up a mountain you're gonna use more power than the V6 is generating possibly?
hydrochloriic@reddit
Only if you had a 0% SOC on the battery, but if it operates like other hybrids it will maintain the battery level at some SOC that allows it to output full power for a good amount of time anyway.
Basically the cluster may say 0% but it will likely have an extra 5% or so “hidden” so it can still drain that before actually dropping back to the Pentastar’s sole output.
democracywon2024@reddit
Yeah, if that all works and doesn't have issues this is definitely the most interesting car since the original Chevy Volt.
Alternative_Ask364@reddit
Aside from the efficiency stuff people already mentioned, without batteries you don't get the electric-only drive mode. PHEVs appeal most to people who would be 90% covered driving a traditional EV, but don't want to rely on EV charging for long road trips, or for trucks specifically, towing.
The Ramcharger's claimed 145 miles EV range is insane for a PHEV. If you have a charger at home and a commute under 60 minutes, you'd reasonably never need to use gas unless you're going on a long road trip or towing.
Stlrfan152@reddit
You need a battery for a buffer, or the generator would have to be running close to full output all the time to anticipate a load. if the generator needs to rev up and down to save fuel, you would lose the instant torque or an ev waiting for the generator to rev up. Without a battery, the generator would also need to be powerful enough for the maximum load of the entire vehicle, like towing trailer in the summer up a mountian with the ac on. That's why it either needs to be a traditional hybrid or an ev with an extender, or the savings wont be there.
Agree-With-Above@reddit
This is a series hybrid where the engine acts like a generator. The benefit is that the engine can operate at the exact peak efficiency point all the time. You can also target vibration modes and noise at that frequency to add sound dampening. Engineering wise, it's theoretically better.
However, the problem comes when you need to validate this on places like the Davis Dam for super steep uphill towing. The dead weight of the engine just becomes a drag.
darkbro66@reddit
The drive line has more losses and the cable between a battery and motor. The engine can also run a more efficient cycle if it's just charging a battery instead of powering the wheels directly. The battery is 100% necessary to make this function at all
FormatA@reddit
What your describing is an electric gear box. That will have more losses than a mechanical gear box. Its really only useful in specific situations like trains.
Lets say your engine is most efficient at 2000 rpm and 20% load. How many roads are going to require that exact situation? Lets say your on a long flat back road and only need 50% of the above power. Well if you don't have a battery you are stuck running at a less efficient operating point. With a battery you can turn the motor on, run at your most efficient point, then turn the motor off when you have put enough power into the battery.
That's also ignoring the huge benefits of regenerative breaking. Ever wonder why hybrids get amazing in town MPG but just average MPG on highway? Hint, regenerative breaking.
Also this is a plug in hybrid, so you can charge it at home and drive on all electric like its an EV till the battery runs low. Then its a hybrid with all the benefits that come with that.
BIG-SAGGY-TITS@reddit
I’m not going to be able to do a good job explaining it either. You could very well be right that the batteries are redundant. I’m not sure. I just thought the idea of using a small gas motor to generate the power for electric motors would give you all the benefits of both. At the expense of a very complex power train that essentially no one outside of the manufacturer will be able to work on for a while.
md517@reddit
Biggest concern for me is Chrysler stuff has had bad cooling systems for ages. The Ramcharger has one for the engine along with probably ones for the battery and inverter if it is anything like the Jeep 4Xe. Three cooling systems from a company that can’t make good ones is a recipe for trouble.
That said, the series hybrid is probably the best option for many people. I can’t charge at home so an EV makes zero sense but even if that weren’t the case I’d never buy an EV. Nothing on sale today other than maybe the Porsche does anything for me. And I will never achieve the station in life where I get to do anything more than admire Porsche models so that’s out. The Scout models look appealing but they’re vaporware for now.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
No surprise this coming, the future of plug-in market is becoming unclearly, but this does help STLA no needing to spend much money.
Interesting, what that model would be ? next gen Ducato/ ProMaster ?
CAR_iD_com@reddit
Yeah... the demand on EVs is a bit iffy rn