Oncoming Traffic on Flight Level
Posted by TemGesic@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 15 comments
Hey guys, I figured asking some of the aviation experts here would give me a better answer to my question.
Yesterday (Nov 19, 2024) I flew with Etihad Airways EY123 and especially in the last third of the flight I was experiencing quite some oncoming traffic rushing by the left of my plane - they looked VERY close at times. Not sure if anyone has the ability to look into this specific flight and identify the aircrafts that were so close but I am really curious if this only felt very close or was still all fine (I expect the latter). I know that oncoming traffic is not an issue and mostly the planes are also operating on different altitudes but boy at least two other aircrafts appeared very big on my window and it seemed to have the exact same cruising altitude .. felt a bit anxious after two planes felt very close and popped out of nowhere to be honest even knowing that TCAS exists .. :-D
Looking forward to your input guys!
Have a great day!
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
Okay, thanks to you guys I am now able to properly use the Playback function from Flightradar24. Shame on me. So I was able to dig into the details and follow my route in the respective area and all the planes that flew nearby to our left were indeed 1000ft lower or higher. I am kind of puzzled because visually this looked exactly like the same height as I was not able to see either the bottom or top of the other airplane. But according to the data every plane was pretty much exactly 1000ft below or above .. wow. I mean we are talking 300m of difference in height .. I don't understand how I cannot tell this significant difference at least approximately as I was SURE these planes were +-20m of my plane's flight level. Now I don't trust my eyes anymore ha. Thanks for the helpful input from you guys!!
sniper4273@reddit
1000' (300m) really isn't a lot of distance, especially compared to lateral separation, which could have easily been ten times that at several miles (3000m). If you draw a triangle with side lengths 1 and 10, you'll see it's a pretty narrow triangle.
It's really hard to visually judge relative altitude in cruise. Like, really hard. I don't doubt for a second they "looked like" your altitude. The vertical separation is so small relative to the lateral separation. We humans simply didn't evolve to be good at eye-balling vertical separation of an object several miles away moving at significant fractions of the speed of sound, with zero nearby ground to relate to.
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
Appreciate your comment!
Quowe_50mg@reddit
You can replay the flight on flightradar 24. Just Google "EY123 flightradar" and it should show up.
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
I can see the path my flight took there but no other aircrafts passing by or am I doing something wrong?
Quowe_50mg@reddit
Might have to use the replay function. It's in the toolbar somwhere
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
Tried to find something, wasn't successful. Are you maybe referring to a premium subsciption feature?
Quowe_50mg@reddit
No, it's literally right there on the bottom, next to "widgets".
Have you maybe tried googling "flightradar24 playback"?
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
Oh my god, I feel so dumb now .. I was going to FR24, searching for my flight number, selecting the flight I took on respective date and there clicked the Playback. Now checking out the "real" playback that you guys must've been referring to the whole time :-D
ForsakenRacism@reddit
Either 1000 feet vertically or 5 miles laterally
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
Quite interesting, it looked like it was on the exact same vertical level (as I was not able to see below the plane at it's bottom nor on the top of the wings) and laterally it felt like .. well sometimes you see another plane landing parallel with you on a parallel runway, it was about that distance I'd say but somewhere I must be mistaken and I am very curious to find out where :)
ForsakenRacism@reddit
He was probably next to you and below you like on a diagonal. But there’s some places wherever there are one way airways next to each other where all the altitudes are used
Every-Progress-1117@reddit
All fine; they were probably either 1000 feet below or above you. I'll take a look at FR24 a bit later, but you can be assured that at no point was there any danger. Aircraft have radar and warning systems - the pilots in both would have known from their own systems and from ATC what the situation is.
Pilots are also trained to react to proximity warnings and maneuver accordingly.
For example, at this moment, I'm looking at WMT7KB (Wizz Air) PGT13RG (PGS) - they are probably within a kilometer of each other, but one is at FL350 and the other FL340.
Here's a Captain Joe video on TCAS: https://youtu.be/37tXmJzUAQc
Mid-air collisions are *rare* (even by the rarity of aircraft accidents) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mid-air_collisionsThe last involving passenger planes (not smaller aircraft) were in 2002, 2006 and 2015. The investigations make for interesting reading.
So, in short, aircraft pass each other and sometimes you get to see them. As safe as it can possibly be.
TemGesic@reddit (OP)
Would be great if you can spot the, at least, two planes that came very close an judging by the engine trail were on the exact same flight level as my plane was an maybe dig up some more details. I know the replay function on Flightradar24 but it does not show me other planes in the playback, but maybe I am just doing something wrong. One was an Emirates A380 and at least two other planes that felt even closer than the Emirates one. But maybe this information helps you to track down the moment a bit better, I guess it was somewhere over the black sea or something a bit before or after .. sun was just about to set if I remember correctly
anonymous4071@reddit
You were fine. Opposite direction traffic is going to be 1000ft higher or lower at a minimum. It is very difficult to accurately observe altitude difference in cruise without much reference available so they look much closer than they actually are. As long as appropriate vertical separation is in place, two jets can fly directly opposite each other, cross paths, or fly next to each other. At the same altitude, lateral separation is going to be variable depending on phase of flight, radar coverage, and local rules but assume no less than 5 miles apart, more likely 10-20.