James May asks a question on Twitter/X!

Posted by FlipStig1@reddit | thegrandtour | View on Reddit | 38 comments

James May bravely went on Twitter/X again and tried to enter the UK farming debate (which Jeremy Clarkson has largely made his views known in his previous columns!), but he first wanted to make sense of it from an economic perspective before proposing an idea to solve the issue. As usual, he received some interesting replies… 🤔

[-]

brett1081@reddit

He appears to not understand that farming requires alot of capital and brings in very little revenue. But it does.

And the bill applies to about 70 % of farms in the country. 177 acres is nothing. It’s less than a third of a square mile. And these farmers will be given tax bills that will be over 50 percent of their net revenue annually. F the people who think this is fair. Blackrocks going to love the land grab that is coming.

[-]

Grimdotdotdot@reddit

70% of farms? Where are you pulling that number from?

The accepted number is around 25%: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-inheritance-tax-on-farms-explained

[-]

burwellian@reddit

Government numbers are 28%. NFU, using DEFRA's own figures, say 66%.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g79nywyljo

[-]

brett1081@reddit

The average value for an acre of farmland is 11,000 pounds.

https://www.agriinvestor.com/england-and-wales-farmland-prices-hit-record-high/#:~:text=The%20value%20of%20farmland%20in,and%20lettings%20agency%20Knight%20Frank.

Your new law applies to all transfer over 2 million pounds. So let’s do some division. You wind up with 182 acres rounding up. The average farm size is over 200 acres in the UK. So this applies to the average farm. Sorry the propaganda wing of the UK government wants to lie to you about it.

[-]

burwellian@reddit

I'm on your side, just trying to use a source they'd consider potentially reliable given they cited CHANNEL 4!!

[-]

throwitawayleonardo@reddit

Why pay any inheritance tax?

[-]

Grimdotdotdot@reddit

Counterpoint: why allow inheritance at all?

[-]

throwitawayleonardo@reddit

Indeed. Taxing farmers or not, and at what rate, isn't exatly a very important issue for the UK at this moment. You should all go on a rampage until that utter worthless scum Keir Starmer is eating through a straw.

[-]

SubversiveInterloper@reddit

It’s all a scheme to allow big corporations to buy up all the farmland.

Why is Bill Gates the largest owner of farmland in the US?

[-]

hhs2112@reddit

REliGiOuS orgs too. The mormon church owns close to 2 million acres worth 15+billion.

"non-profit" indeed...

[-]

Learnformyfam@reddit

My church owning farm land that it uses to feed the poor is not the same as Bill Gates buying it to let it sit fallow. Be grateful my church has beat Bill at a number of auctions, not jealous. When crap hits the fan you'll be glad we own it and not Bill...

[-]

noahbrooksofficial@reddit

Ah. Yes. The inclusive and never greedy, not exclusionary, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[-]

Fornad@reddit

James Dyson owns a shit ton of farmland in the UK and it's not because he loves sheep. He was taking advantage of the previous lack of inheritance tax.

[-]

elwebst@reddit

And didn't Bill vow he was going to give away his entire wealth before he died? Maybe he forgot that part. Relevant because if he did, inheritance taxes would be meaningless.

[-]

snowmunkey@reddit

Ironically, one of the largest chunks of farmland he bought in Washington was bought from a Canadian land trust.

[-]

thodorisv@reddit

It's the existing exemption in the inheritance law that has allowed rich people to buy up farmland in order to avoid paying inheritance tax. That's how farmland has become so expensive. Statistically speaking the changes in the inheritance tax will only affects a quarter of all the farmers. It's true that farmers are extremely squeezed in the UK and in truth all around the EU. The main difference is though that there are loopholes for farmers whose property is valued at over a million pounds which will see them avoid paying the twenty percent of their total wealth upon their death. In the end it all depends on your view on how the government should fund underfunded services.

[-]

Fornad@reddit

There was a really good interview on The Rest is Money about this recently. Essentially the number of estates that will actually be affected number in the low hundreds, and that's before they start taking advantage of these loopholes (i.e. giving the land to their children more than seven years before their death).

[-]

cyberdork@reddit

How can Apple be worth $3450 billion when they only make $90b. How can Intel be worth $100b when they lose $17b in a quarter.

[-]

Griftersdeuce@reddit

3450 billion... did you mean $3.45 Trillion?

[-]

JoeSicko@reddit

In the US we just get $10M exemption on inheritance taxes. Then you pay like you won the lottery on the rest. At ten million I lose sympathy for small farmers.

[-]

bandit1206@reddit

The problem is, in many areas productive farmland has reached prices above $10,000/acre. This puts you at 1000 acres if you calculate land alone. It’s really hard to provide a full time level income at that number of acres.

Beyond that take into account buildings, equipment (which has also gone up dramatically) and everything else that goes into a farming operation it’s really easy to hit $10M and be a very small farmer in the US.

Add to that, if you’re near any kind of growing population center you can double that land value.

Granted there are avenues to transfer land to future generations that prevents inheritance taxes. But these are not always well known, or may be undesirable for other reasons.

[-]

JoeSicko@reddit

1000 acres is so much land for a 'small family farm.'

[-]

ubiquitous_uk@reddit

Its not really just the 1000 acreas though. The value includes all the asset values, so buildings, farm machinery, crops, livestock, etc.

[-]

bandit1206@reddit

To support family of 4 in the US you need to make somewhere around $106k. Assuming that, you would need to average $106/acre.

That is the type of numbers most farmers shoot for in the best years. This year the average is likely a negative number, excluding livestock.

Even on a diversified operation, you would need to make an extra $106 + the loss on the crop acres to make that number.

Add into that, it’s not as easy as saying I’ll turn crop ground into livestock, because you would need to establish pasture, potentially erect fencing, all of this takes investment, and time.

[-]

DraconianDebate@reddit

Not for industrial agriculture and crops like wheat or corn. The gross revenue from wheat is like $400 an acre. A 100 acre farm would GROSS $40K on wheat.

[-]

HengaHox@reddit

Funny you say that, a lot of places the lottery tax is already calculated out of the winnings. So you actually get what is advertised :D

[-]

northyj0e@reddit

Then you pay like you won the lottery on the rest.

Which makes it even more baffling for the Brits, we don't pay tax on gambling or prize winnings, unless we're i.e professional poker players.

[-]

Ok-disaster2022@reddit

It's like a flat 30% on the rest. It's a 2 level progressive tax structure. It needs more levels, more nuance.

But really I just care about rich kids having to work to ensure their kids have something.

And really, the really rich estates AR probably tied up in family companies.

[-]

Inkblot_Wild@reddit

Actually... registering your farm as working land is an interesting idea for helping farmers dodge IHT.

it goes a step further, maybe the farmland that is rented to the farmers rather than owned by the farmers is not exempt from the tax?

Just give the family farmers something to work with, here.

[-]

vilemeister@reddit

I see you have absolutely no idea how much land is worth, or farm equipment.

1 field could fetch 3 million with planning permission, easily, in the south west of England.

[-]

Ok-disaster2022@reddit

What not just a progressive Inheritance tax structure? Flat taxes are always shit.

[-]

FlipStig1@reddit (OP)

For those asking, here’s proof of authenticity.