Russia warns Ukraine’s ATACMS attacks mark ‘new phase’ of war
Posted by chromazgympartner@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 227 comments
Ukraine’s Military Strategy: Ukrainian President Zelenskyy confirmed that Ukraine would continue using ATACMS, alongside its own long-range weapons.
Missile Interception: Russia claims its air defense systems intercepted five out of six ATACMS missiles launched at Bryansk, with one missile damaged.
US-Supported Offensive: Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov accused Washington of direct involvement by helping Ukraine operate long-range missiles.
North Korean Troops: Russia confirmed the deployment of North Korean troops in the Russian region of Kursk to combat Ukrainian forces, further escalating the conflict.
Putin's Nuclear Posture: The new Russian nuclear doctrine is broad, giving Putin flexibility to use nuclear weapons in response to conventional threats, particularly from NATO countries.
US Response: US State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller stated that the US is not surprised by Russia’s new nuclear stance and will not adjust its own nuclear posture.
International Condemnation: EU’s Josep Borrell and UK officials criticized Russia’s rhetoric as reckless, highlighting the potential for global destabilization.
Focus on Sovereignty: Russian officials stress that any attack on Russian or allied territory, including Belarus, could justify a nuclear response under the new doctrine.
Ongoing War Context: The war has now reached its 1,000th day, with slow-moving offensives from Russia and persistent Ukrainian resistance supported by Western aid.
SMTecanina@reddit
How is this a new phase of war?
Russia claims Crimea as part of russia. Ukraine has utilized western supplied long-range weapons such as ATACMS and Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles against russian assets in Crimea.
Meaning this has been happening for a while now...
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
That is true, but it is different. We all know how it is different. But yes, putin hangs himself with his words.
SMTecanina@reddit
We sure do.
He sure does.
But as it is right now, russia controls Crimea. They lay claim to it. Western weapons have struck russian soil for a while. Western armor has been in russia for what, 5+ months now?
This is nothing new no matter how you look at it.
It's just more nuclear threats from the kremlin. There's an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to them.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Yes i remember them saying Crimea is Russia so if it is attacked..... etc. It is a progression though. Strikes east of Ukraine will feel different to Russians, and it will put much more pressure on Putin to respond.
SMTecanina@reddit
Ukraine has hit quite a few oil facilities pretty deep into Russia with their own drones.
They've even sent drones into Moscow proper.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Yes correct. Thats not so politically sensitive though. Ukraine is attacked, they attack. The issue here is U.S kick arse weapons systems with U.S training, support, intel, maingenence etc. Russia is not too happy about that.
SMTecanina@reddit
The list of shit that russia has done is beyond ridiculous.
I don't care about what they're unhappy about.
The fear mongers only care about escalation when it comes to Ukraines actions. They turn a blind eye to russias escalations and actions.
Enough is enough.
alkbch@reddit
Enough is enough? The vast majority of Americans are not ready to risk nuclear armageddon for Ukraine.
SMTecanina@reddit
So russia is allowed to do whatever they want because they have nukes?
lostenant@reddit
No, but for the past 3/4 of the century now, the US has proven that it does a shit job playing world police, which even if we didn’t suck at, we shouldn’t have to do anyway.
alkbch@reddit
Is it only ok when the U.S. does it?
SMTecanina@reddit
I'm not a fan of a lot of things we've done.
But the United States isn't the one fucking up this time around, russia is.
alkbch@reddit
So it seems that indeed countries with nukes get to do whatever they want.
SMTecanina@reddit
Then I guess y'all should stop crying about what America supplies and we allow them to do with said supplies.
alkbch@reddit
We will keep pushing for America to care about U.S. citizens first and foremost rather than prop up wars far away.
SMTecanina@reddit
We can do both ya know
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I agree, what Russia has done is outrageous. I study, history, military history, and I am also a businessman. I think i keep a strategic eye on the chess aspect, and the macro situation. I am also very aware that things can go very badly at certain inflection points. I am aware of the human cost, but also have been listening to analysts and trying to guage what might happen next.
CAredditBoss@reddit
3 days is suddenly 1000 days
lilith_-_-@reddit
Russia claims that to fire these missiles you need to aim them using USA satellites, which involves USA soldiers hands on actively aiming these missiles at Russia for Ukraine to fire. It’s not so much as “Ukraine is firing them at Russia”
It is Ukraine and USA firing these at Russia. I might get downvoted like usual when I explain this, I am not pro Russia, I am not against the USA, yet, I am just stating what the basics of the situation. This is what Russia is looking at and basing decisions off of. And Putin said he would attack the USA if we got involved. And we did. We got involved
SMTecanina@reddit
We've been involved for a long time. We've been supplying ISR info for a long time. Western armor is currently in Russia. ATACMS and Storm Shadows/SCALPs have been utilized against russian assets in Crimea for a while.
We've crossed Every. Single. One.
lilith_-_-@reddit
Yes but now usa troops(fire control/FC) are directly involved in attacking russia
SMTecanina@reddit
Why wouldn't the Ukrainian troops trained in the system be able to do it?
lilith_-_-@reddit
We would have to give them all the technology to do so. And a satellite or more. These are the types of systems behind red tape. Like evacuate all civilian employees off the ship to take off the sheets and work /test the systems type stuff. I doubt we would hand this over to anyone it is detrimental to national security
SMTecanina@reddit
The Storm Shadows/SCALPs are being launched by Ukrainian MiGs.
The HIMARS/M270 launches the ATACMS.
We trained the Ukrainian service members on how to operate the equipment. Ukraine also has various ISR drones they're using to find their own targets.
We're providing ISR information from various air assets that have been flying since before the initial invasion.
How is that any different/worse than North Korean troops and equipment
ATACMS were designed in the 80s. Storm Shadows were developed in the 90s.
Sure, they've obviously been upgraded and updated over time.... But let's be real, it's not ground breaking technology for The US/NATO/European Allies to have precision strike weapons.
lilith_-_-@reddit
I honestly cannot say the specifics
tresbros@reddit
Why? It's true that Russia claims this to be a red line, but there were no consequences to the red line of weapons being sent. There were no consequences to the red line of long range missiles being sent. There were no consequences to the red line of modern tanks being sent. There were no consequences to the red line of Ukraine invading Russian 2014 borders being crossed. There were no consequences to the red line of F-16's being sent.
Why are you terrified of this line being crossed?
lilith_-_-@reddit
Because USA troops have directly played a hand in attacking Russia. It’s like we stationed a battleship off their coast and fired them. It’s not just any red line. This is a direct assault. Another nation just hit the firing button.
There is weight behind it this time. A weight I personally can attest to but I’m not going to get into my background. But this is too far. We can expect retaliation within the next week. If not directly against the USA, most likely a small payload thermonuclear bomb against a Ukrainian city.
tresbros@reddit
Cool, so we'll just ignore the many examples of Russia lying about the consequences for crossing its "red lines" in favor of your vibes.
lilith_-_-@reddit
My “vibes” come from a military back ground. I was someone who worked directly with ICBM’s and other systems
Commercial-Risk-4956@reddit
I think Russia should just nuke Kiev so we can see what happens next!
extrastupidone@reddit
Won't happen. They know what happens if it does.
Orbital_Vagabond@reddit
The US wouldnt do shit if Russia nuked Kiev, and it's unlikely any EU or other NATO member states would do anything either, except maybe Poland. The US, UK, and France aren't going to think Kiev is worth nuclear war.
India and China would probably put sanctions on Russia for the use of nukes, which would hasten Russia's economic collapse. That and the fact that Putin ultimately sees Kiev (and all Ukraine) as breakaway Russian territory are probably the only things keeping the city from glowing at night.
ShadyClouds@reddit
You’re dreaming! if Russia launches a nuke the west would def attack Russia, sure they probably wouldn’t use a nuke themselves but a onslaught of long range munitions would def be on their way to Moscow.
Multinightsniper@reddit
You don't get to fire countless missiles and drones into a country without the possiblity of the same happening to them. They should be happy its being kept in the Brynask region so far, because Myself, Russia, China's Mother and India's little 8th cousin all know Russia does not have the AA defense capacities to defend against the same sort of attacks that they are perpetuating onto Ukraine. (Aka you know, like the image I have provided) From three days ago on r/mapporn
RealCalintx@reddit
Don’t tell that to the Trumpanzees that deepthroat that sweet Russian propaganda, plaguing this sub
Spartanfred104@reddit
Oh shit they got so triggered they blocked me hahaha.
Vibrant-Shadow@reddit
Good job.
RealCalintx@reddit
🥺
Ordinary144@reddit
I dont believe that you or 90% of the people in this sub are actually peppers. Prepping is more of a conservative pastime, and most commentary here is liberal drivel.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
Liberals are much more likely to be preppers as they have a more realistic world view.
Ordinary144@reddit
Realistic, like how Russian Facebook posts supposedly cost Hillary the election, lol? Ya'll went ham on that shit samich for about 5 years before admitting it was all a ruse. And now 48% of America is okay with nuclear war with Russia cuz "CoLlUsIoN!"
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
Russian Facebook posts did cost Hillary the election
Our own intelligence agencies confirmed this.
Ordinary144@reddit
Case.and.point.
MayorWestt@reddit
You should actually read the Mueller report
Abject-Ad-4778@reddit
I would rather scroll through reels
Striking_Mushroom313@reddit
Why are you being so aggressive? Someone is trying to have an informed and really respectful conversation with you. It’s really unnecessary to make it so vitriolic.
RealCalintx@reddit
Cause he wants to be a triggered little bitch. Everyone who doesn’t agree with him is “a liberal” Even though I’m an anti-MAGA McCain Conservative. They won but they’re still empty and agree, and I find that really. Fucking. Funny.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
"I only believe Kremlin propaganda, nice try libtard!"
ChallengingBullfrog8@reddit
Hillary cost Hillary her own election.
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
Liberals are also much more likely to be totally dependent on the state and corporations for everything as they commonly live in cities.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
You're thinking of Republicans. Statistics don't lie; red states are for more dependent on welfare.
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
No, I’m thinking of liberals who get everything from the grocery store when they run out of it, and assume utilities will always be there.
Echad_HaAm@reddit
Grocery stores are bad and if you use them you're not prepared, you have to grow and prepare everything yourself, otherwise you're just a liberal?!
I will have to tell all the conservatives i know they're actually liberals because they go to the supermarket.
Also, there's a whole lot of liberals, including in cities and suburbs who will have electricity for years with their solar panels an batteries.
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
I never said ALL liberals. You are upset over a situation you invented in your head.
Echad_HaAm@reddit
i am of course exaggerating to prove a point.
You said two comments ago:
And next comment you explained that you're talking about the ones who get their stuff form grocery stores etc.
My point is that there's very little practical difference in being dependent on the state and corporations between Conservatives and Liberals as they all rely on corporations and government for most of their stuff.
There's some slight advantage for conservatives in that they are more likely to live in rural areas and in that case are more likely to have wells and septic, but aside from that they are just as reliant as cities and suburbs.
In a realistic large scale SHTF scenario that goes beyond a serious natural disaster the extra trees and wildlife won't last long enough to be much of an advantage for long as people will migrate en masse towards area of raw resources.
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
I know at least 3 big farms with meat and produce near me that already serve the community
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
Wtf are you talking about dude 😂
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
People who don’t prep. Keep up “dude” 😂
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
We were talking about welfare. Keep up, dude.
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
No we aren’t dude. Read your own comment where it doesn’t say the word “welfare” ever.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
Alright I'm just going to go ahead and drop this here since you can't read:
"You're thinking of Republicans. Statistics don't lie; red states are far more dependent on "welfare*."
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
That is a RESPONSE to my original comment about PREPPING.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
No, you said "Liberals are also much more likely to be totally dependent on the state and corporations for everything as they commonly live in cities."
That has nothing to do with prepping. If you can't even keep up with your OWN statements maybe you should just give the internet a rest, bud.
Firm_Part_5419@reddit
Prepping is for when you can’t depend on the state and corporations anymore. Get a grip guy
RealCalintx@reddit
Now this is a TRUE Reddit moment 👀🍿🍿🍿🍿
RockTheGrock@reddit
They deleted it before I could see it. Could you give me a brief synopsis?
SurgeFlamingo@reddit
Bro I’m liberal as they come but own guns and prep.
south-of-the-river@reddit
I was taught as a Cub Scout to be prepared, and that set a foundation far before I knew about political leanings
Spartanfred104@reddit
😅😂🤣, gatekeeping Prepping, wait sorry "peppering" as if you have some sort of monopoly on being prepared is peak idiot.
GipsyDanger45@reddit
I don’t think anyone here is a true pepper. Too spicy
IAmMuffin15@reddit
Elon: “The economy is probably going to crash hard while we are ruling you”
RFK Jr: “I don’t believe in vaccines for all of those diseases that vaccines eradicated. We should Give America a Smallpox Epidemic Again”
Trump: “I literally sold nuclear secrets to our adversaries, attempted to overthrow the government, and now I’m commander in chief with a Congress that wouldn’t dare to stand in my way and a Supreme Court that has literally decided that everything “official” I do is nice and legal.”
You: “Oh gee wowza, thank goodness 😍😍😍 glad to hear my future is totally safe now!!!”
Echad_HaAm@reddit
That's one of the main differences between the crazy far-right preppers for whom it's a pastime, a hobby or even their whole personality and comes from a sense of paranoia or escapist fantasy vs rational people for whom prepping is just one of many aspects of their life and comes from a common sense desire to be prepared for realistic scenarios.
Naturally, for someone to whom prepping involves panicking about the latest conspiracy pushed by politicians with an agenda, grifters and foreign influence campaigns, the logical discourse about prepping in this community would seem like "liberal drivel".
agent_flounder@reddit
I am politically left and a gun owner and prepper.
Believe whatever you want but it doesn't make you correct.
wookEmessiah@reddit
Some of the most prepped people I have ever met are far left.
Ordinary144@reddit
It's the internet, anyone can say anything here.
RealCalintx@reddit
You:
MayorWestt@reddit
Gatekeeping prepping now?
Multinightsniper@reddit
Prepping is not a conservative pastime, it's an action. Prepping could be getting a location ready for you to leave in case of an emergency, it could be packing up a to go bag in case shtf, or, in this case, it can be keeping up with current wars/conflicts and or pointing out baseless rhetoric (Like the possibility the Russia launches nukes soon) that happens all the time in the main stream media to see if there is any legitimate cause for concern.
If that goes over your head, what I'm trying to say is by sharing the Intel that Russia possible bluffing (Because they are, they are just trying to stop them from doing the same they do to them with the image.) It helps people prep accordingly.
The "liberal" drivel is exactly why certain demographics get hit harder due to being underprepared, or outright denying the facts like during the Covid Pandemic. People are here because mainstream media and their countries governments have failed keeping them up to date and ready, that or they get fed lies or situations where things get under reported or not at all. (Looking at you results of that massive train derailing in the U.S that has caused a lot of health issues for people.)
Bright_Archer7866@reddit
A new stage of coping
No_Extent207@reddit
There has to be a answer from the west that doesn’t ignore the possibility. If nobody believes that Russia might use the weapons, then they’ve lost their use as a deterrent which would incentivize Russia towards actual deployment.
Semiotic_Weapons@reddit
How would dropping a nuke help ruskies achieve their goal? Just ruins the bread basket they're after. They are just going to hope the wind doesn't blow radioactive ash back at Russia?
It's usefulness is as a threat not deployment. We'll see I guess.
No_Extent207@reddit
Russia feels it is necessary to demonstrate deterrence. Russia uses battlefield nuclear device. In response the US destroys the Black Sea fleet. In response Russia targets U.S. military bases in Germany and Poland. NATO declares war on Russia. Full nuclear exchange occurs.
MightAsWell6@reddit
Russia would be obliterated and we wouldn't need to use a single nuke.China would not aid them if they used a nuke first.
Nukes are a deterrent from nukes being used on YOU. They are not a deterrent to conventional action being taken against you invading another country.
No_Extent207@reddit
If nobody respects your nuclear doctrine and continues to push red lines then obviously the nuclear weapons have lost their deterrence value. This motivates Russians to demonstrate their value as a deterrence
MightAsWell6@reddit
Wrong.
It shows that you can't use nukes as a free "invade anyone not in NATO" card.
Nukes are a deterrent from your own country getting nuked. They are not a deterrent from getting retaliated against conventionally when you invade another country.
No_Extent207@reddit
Well I’m sorry but Putin isn’t going to play by your rules. You can throw every international law and nuclear doctrine at the Russians and it will never sway them from perusing their national interests. If you need a example of this look no further than the genocidal Israelis and how much they respect your rules based order.
MightAsWell6@reddit
Then Russia will cease to exist. If Putin is that suicidal there's nothing that can save him.
No_Extent207@reddit
It’s not suicidal it’s just the irrationality of war. What is needed is an alternative to war that doesn’t push Russia to the breaking point. I can’t believe that the world will be a safer place with a fractured Russia. Do the United States really need to fully dismantle and decimate any nation that violates its ideology? Is that even feasible financially and militarily.
MightAsWell6@reddit
If Russia wants to try to return the world to conquering other countries then they will be removed from the world.
It's not irrational at all. Putin threatens nukes because he wants to see how much he can get by bluffing.
China is watching the conflict and if Putin succeeds Taiwan is fucked because China will use the exact same playbook with them if they see it work with Ukraine.
Being extremely pragmatic and way more charitable than Putin deserves: he can keep Crimea and Ukraine agrees to not pursue NATO membership for 20 years.
No_Extent207@reddit
Well at least that’s a start towards a meaningful negotiation, I support that.
MightAsWell6@reddit
Putin himself said he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. He is eyeing every single non NATO neighbor if he gets Ukraine.
No_Extent207@reddit
Fine with me why should I care what happens to those countries?
MightAsWell6@reddit
Because he's not going to stop there. And that will allow him to destabilize more of the world which will affect the US too. You don't get to be isolationist anymore, sorry, that time is over.
If you want to stick your head in the sand and wait for Putin to get behind you to use you , that's on you.
No_Extent207@reddit
I’m sorry but could you be more specific on how exactly any of that really affects me as a blue collar American? Im starting to think that you don’t have any tangible reasons for Americans to be involved in any of this. I’m not isolating myself, I think the only way we have long term peace is to normalize relationships with Russia, China, Iran, ext.
MightAsWell6@reddit
Yes, destabilized international trade, more countries pursuing nukes which increases the likelihood of them being used or them falling into terrorist hands, and being surrounded by countries that want the fall of the US definitely wouldn't affect you.
Those countries don't want peace with the US they want its fall.
No_Extent207@reddit
Destabilized international trade?, I’m not convinced because your not being specific enough. Nuclear proliferation? Maybe but I don’t see how becoming involved actually prevents that. Surrounded by countries that want the fall of the US? Sorry to break it to you but there are already many such countries, mostly the ones we unjustly invaded and occupied for decades.
These explanations suck I wish you had better one because I’d really like to think that your right about all this.
MightAsWell6@reddit
You're too far gone. You are either simply wildly uneducated or captured by Russian propaganda.
No_Extent207@reddit
I think it’s pathetic that you support a war but can’t articulate how it benefits us as Americans.
istandabove@reddit
So we should be the cautious ones? Because it seems either side can step back. Maybe it should be the one who invaded a smaller nation.
No_Extent207@reddit
Fine then, what would you propose is offered to the Russians in exchange for ceasing their advance?
istandabove@reddit
Judging by your last post? No nuclear annihilation. It goes both ways.
No_Extent207@reddit
I’m confused what exactly are you offering?
istandabove@reddit
They back out, no nukes are used. Or do you think that if Russia tried to use nukes? The entire west wouldn’t respond? lol
No_Extent207@reddit
That’s not a negotiation. If you want something you have to give something in return
istandabove@reddit
Come to think of it we want Russia to completely collapse. Judging by the way its economy is going it’s working.
No_Extent207@reddit
Maybe you want Russia to collapse. I would rather see nations prosper and cooperate. It’s not impossible just unpopular.
istandabove@reddit
Yeah too bad Vlad doesn’t want the same.
No_Extent207@reddit
Well what would you offer to change his mind?
istandabove@reddit
They get to keep what ever is left of their youth alive and un mangled.
No_Extent207@reddit
You think that will work?
istandabove@reddit
Doesn’t have to, he’s a 72 year old man in a country whose life expectancy is 73 years old. We’ll figure it out with the next guy.
No_Extent207@reddit
Man that’s hilarious, “we’ll figure it out with the next guy”.
istandabove@reddit
What? Is he some sort of deity?
No_Extent207@reddit
No but he’s not a moron. Of course he has a successor and I’m sure plenty of those loyal to him who might take up the cause when he dies. I think it’s unlikely their strategy would change much under a new president
istandabove@reddit
Yeah tell that to all of his Soviet Predecessors. The only thing that’s certain is death. Everything after is a game of chance, the Soviets wanted a lot of different crap over the decades. Yet now the Soviets kill each other.
No_Extent207@reddit
Well I’m concerned about the here and now. I’m not sure what exactly your getting at. Realistically we can’t expect the Russians to just pack-up and leave. What is the harm in being pragmatic and negotiating a settlement?
MyWifeButBoratVoice@reddit
We're saying Russia doesn't get to keep a huge chunk of Ukraine and just call it good. We're not negotiating away portions of Ukraine. Not negotiable. The only language Putin understands is force. He must be forced into acquiescing. Coming to the table like "you can keep Crimean and half of Ukraine if you stop attacking pweese" is a losing strategy.
No_Extent207@reddit
Yea and now at the 1000 day of the conflict with no end in sight and the possibility of nuclear war closer than ever, we can see how well the current stratagem is working. Cmon dude fuck Ukraine let’s just make peace and save some lives.
MyWifeButBoratVoice@reddit
No. Appeasement doesn't work. Putin has already signaled that a bunch of other neighbors are next on the list. He MUST be stopped, by force. It is the only way to deal with despots.
No_Extent207@reddit
Are you being willfully dense? The m not advocating for appeasement but rather a change in strategy that doesn’t involve greater and more violent displays of force that won’t bring us closer to peace. If the toll in you bag is a hammer then every obstacle looks like a nail. Use a different tool
MyWifeButBoratVoice@reddit
Yes you are advocating for appeasement. That is what your plan amounts to. "settle for peace and let Russia keep what it's already stolen" is appeasement. It just invites him to keep doing it.
The hammer is the only tool that despots like him will understand.
No_Extent207@reddit
That’s dumb and that kind of thinking which leave no room for negotiation is what gets millions killed. Nation states should make decisions based upon morality or justice. The only force more powerful than war is common interest.
istandabove@reddit
I’m not, Geopolitics benefits from letting time pass and people as well.
I frankly don’t care if they pack up and leave, it’s stone grinding stone. Not my people dying. Not my economy in shambles, not my country that’s sanctioned.
⏳
No_Extent207@reddit
I guess fuck it then
MayorWestt@reddit
The black sea fleet has already been destroyed
No_Extent207@reddit
This is just an example of one possible scenario. As far as I’m aware the BSF is still operational, I use this example because it’s suspected that this would be one possible US response to the use of a nuclear device by the Russians.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
You're gonna get downvotes but just know you're right and they don't care about nuclear war they've been told it's not gonna happen and if it does it's worth Ukraine.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
It's worth standing up to Russia, Ukraine doesn't matter in the broader scheme of things. If suddenly nuclear armed states can take over their neighbors that don't have nukes it's going to be a hell of a bad thing. Every first world country would need nukes.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
But that's not what happened...
We knew 6 months already in advance Russia was gonna invade Ukraine we did nothing we let it happen now it's time to deal with the realities and consequences.
And most of the first world has nukes or has treaties with nuclear nations for their defense.
You wanna pretend this wars worth ww3 and it isn't and you're not gonna get a happy ending thinking this way it's gonna be the end of us all
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
Look man, I mean absolutely no offense when I say this: you're a misinformed moron.
Only 8 countries currently have nukes. There are 36 developed countries and 189 total.
We knew about the invasion only a couple of months beforehand, and even if we had known 6 months prior what the hell are we going to do? Invade Russia? We gave Ukraine weapons and intelligence, which is the extent we could support them.
This war is absolutely worth WW3 if you had any shred of an idea of what is at stake.
You're either remarkably uninformed or you're just swallowing Kremlin propaganda. Either way, you should change how you consume news.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
What you just said doesn't disprove what I said FYI.
No we saw the buildup and our Intel communities heard the rumblings .
Not to mention crimea happened and Russia afterwards kept building up their military.
Again this war you mean Ukraine and you're openly saying you want ww3 over Ukraine ...
You're the one misinformed and brainwashed in to wanting ww3 which you will immediately regret the second it starts.
mountaindewisamazing@reddit
It disproves everything you just said, you just don't have the ability to reflect inward and admit that you're wrong.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
So you thought Russia would stop at crimea huh?
Heffe3737@reddit
Well said.
No_Extent207@reddit
Yeah it’s fine it’s just Reddit and not anything I say really matters. It it interesting how war hungry and macho people are on here. I’d like to see what their opinions are when they’re called upon to fight.
MayorWestt@reddit
We aren't war hungry, We just know what's at stake. Failure in ukraine will lead to a much broader war in Europe. This is our chance to nip it in the bud. China is watching
No_Extent207@reddit
Yeah the world is watching indeed. I’m not advocating for inaction but instead an alternate solution to the cessation of the conflict. One that encourages diplomatic and economic engagement towards mutual prosperity.
MayorWestt@reddit
We've been trying that for the last 2 years
No_Extent207@reddit
Have we? How many diplomats does the United States have in Russia? How have economic sanctions worked exactly?
MayorWestt@reddit
You honestly think the problem is we didn't try to convince russias not to invade hard enough?
No_Extent207@reddit
Yes I do
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
They will claim it's sexist for woman to be drafted and the men will claim they're now woman and everyone else needs to fight the war for them.
No_Extent207@reddit
They’ve had decades of FPS shooters and action movies to indoctrinate them into a mindset that war is a game.
Heffe3737@reddit
Russia already has a strong incentive not to use them. Because it would be suicide. You are making excuses for Putin and justifying western inaction or weaker western action out of fear. Not surprising for a new account with negative -100 karma.
No_Extent207@reddit
If it wanted to demonstrate to the world that it is capable and willing to use its nuclear arsenal, then there a number of ways they could do that. They could detonate one on their territory as a example. Or they may decide to use a battlefield nuclear warhead somewhere in Ukraine.
Well if you read through my comment history clearly my opinion is not of inaction but rather alternative solutions to this problem that promote diplomatic and economic resolutions.
Heffe3737@reddit
No one would mind Russia exploding a nuke on their own soil. If they use one in Ukraine (they wouldn’t), it would mean nuclear world war.
What diplomatic option would you suggest, exactly? Capitulation? Surrender? Putin has happily crossed ever red line put before him. He has escalated the war at every opportunity. The man is a brutal, murderous dictator - the only thing he will understand is the use of force. We already know how any type of policy of appeasement will go.
alkbch@reddit
Russia using nuclear weapons in Ukraine would not mean nuclear world war. The West will not retaliate with nukes knowing that would mean the end of human civilization.
Heffe3737@reddit
Thankfully where you would not consider it a foregone conclusion, the rest of the world does.
No_Extent207@reddit
I don’t believe that a greater use of force will somehow bring about peace and a end to the conflict. If you want to put out a fire don’t keep adding fuel.
Heffe3737@reddit
Chamberlain would definitely be in agreement with you at least.
No_Extent207@reddit
History is bias and and often incorrect. Using it as the central guiding principle of my strategy is just stupid in my opinion.
Heffe3737@reddit
Ahh yes. “Your strategy”.
No_Extent207@reddit
Anyone’s strategy.
Bright_Archer7866@reddit
Well i hope they don’t cause i like my skin where its currently located.
IdontOpenEnvelopes@reddit
Russia can fuck right off. They started this mess and can end it at any moment by withdrawing from Ukraine and paying reparations.
West should not negotiate with Terrorists, especially Nuclear ones.
No_Extent207@reddit
Haha yeah let’s try and negotiate AFTER the bombs drop.
MightAsWell6@reddit
Putin using a nuke would be suicide. China will not back him and he'd be alone against essentially the entire world.
No_Extent207@reddit
It’s not about them immediately nuking Berlin. It’s about nuclear weapons becoming apart of the escalation ladder. The use of a battlefield nuclear device in Kursk as example.
MightAsWell6@reddit
Russia would be obliterated conventionally. China would not help them if they used a nuke first anywhere.
No_Extent207@reddit
And what about the dead hand trigger that Russia likely has in place?
MightAsWell6@reddit
You seem to be seriously overestimating Russia's capabilities and seriously underestimating the US
No_Extent207@reddit
You seem to want war just so long as you don’t need to fight it yourself. If your an American it’s shameful to support your tax dollars spent on war and death rather than being invested at home helping Americans.
MightAsWell6@reddit
You're falling for propaganda. We're the fucking USA we can help our citizens and our allies. The only thing stopping us is Republicans in Congress.
I have friends in Ukraine, if Russia nukes and we go full war with them I have no problem getting drafted if necessary.
No_Extent207@reddit
https://ildu.com.ua The front lines await my friend. Watch out for landmines
MightAsWell6@reddit
I guess you can't read too well?
No_Extent207@reddit
I guess I’m saying that you don’t need to wait to be drafted. If you truly believe in the righteousness of this war then what is stopping you from helping Ukraine with those rear guard actions this winter?
Heffe3737@reddit
Year old account with negative 100 karma.
RealCalintx@reddit
CeruleanFlytrap@reddit
Dude. We get it. Please quit spamming this meme every 2 minutes in every damn thread.
RealCalintx@reddit
No_Extent207@reddit
Reductionist shitposting
RealCalintx@reddit
xUncleOwenx@reddit
This is the take of a high schooler who just started learning international politics
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
Nazi scum fuck off.
xUncleOwenx@reddit
Nazi scum fuck off.
divot31@reddit
Oh hey Russia, you can fuck right off.
Echad_HaAm@reddit
Pretty bold statement to make for a middle schooler who hasn't started learning international politics.
Spartanfred104@reddit
May I ask what you think about the situation since you seem to know what's up?
Echad_HaAm@reddit
Sure, I'll just copy and paste the redditors commetnt that offended the other person:
Spartanfred104@reddit
That's what I figured I just wanted to confirm. Yeah, Russia can fuck right off.
RealCalintx@reddit
WillBottomForBanana@reddit
Someone is trying to kill you with a baseball bat and they tell you to stop fighting back or they will shoot you with a gun.
????
Neat_Concert_4138@reddit
Lmao this place is so pro-war it's hilarious. Hilarious how pro war the left has become.
IndicationFluffy3954@reddit
Hilarious how people think supporting Ukraine defending itself is “pro-war”.
Heffe3737@reddit
A new account carrying water for Putin. Go figure.
Neat_Concert_4138@reddit
Love how all you guys know how to do is call people Putin shills instead of addressing the argument.
Heffe3737@reddit
The only argument you made was that this place is pro-war.
If we were actually pro-war, we would be in favor of ending the war tomorrow and allowing Putin to keep the Ukrainian territory he’s stolen. The fact that you don’t understand why that path leads directly to a broader war is why you have no business contributing to this discussion. And no, I won’t elaborate - you should go do some reading on geopolitics, learn more about the Russian political thought process, and read some history books. Come back in a few years when you think you understand why.
Until then, hell yeah I’m going to call you a Russian shill. Either that or you’re just a useful idiot to Putin. At the end of the day, is there really a functional difference between the two?
Neat_Concert_4138@reddit
TIL ending a war is "pro-war". Why do I even bother posting here when I run into logic like this.
But giving billions of dollars worth of equipment to Ukraine so they fight and lose millions of citizens that they conscripted. Then green lighting missile attacks into Russia with USA made missile systems and missiles. That's not "pro-war".
You realize Ukraine is going to lose unless NATO fully steps in and causes WW3? You really think they are going to beat Russia? No, you want to see millions of people dead. That's "pro-war".
You talking about yourself being that for the military industry complex?
Orbital_Vagabond@reddit
-Neville Chamberlain, 30 Sept 1938
Heffe3737@reddit
Yep. That’s what I thought. You have a complete lack of understanding of this entire conflict. This isn’t a discussion worth having, because frankly at this point you’re just going to double down, but I’ll make a single additional comment to prove that you don’t know what’s actually going on, and then I won’t be responding again.
You say Ukraine is going to lose unless NATO steps in and causes WWIII.
And yet, Russia’s economy is on the brink of collapse - Interest rates are at 19% and climbing. Inflation is between 9% and 27% depending upon who you’re asking, and the only thing keeping the their economy afloat right now is wartime production.
Speaking of wartime production, that production cannot keep up with Russian battlefield losses. Russian bases full of stocks of old Soviet heavy equipment are being emptied at staggering rates, with numerous equipment bases already completely empty. Russia effectively has no more usable stocks of tanks going back to the T-62, a tank that entered production more than 60 years ago. They’re able to produce maybe 220-250 T90s per year, but at current loss rates that’s about a month’s worth of tanks. Russia needs to begin rationing their tank usage right now, or in six months they will literally not have any tanks in the field short of the meager number they can build, or whatever ancient tanks they can convince Kim to send them.
To suggest Ukraine has no way of winning this war without NATO stepping in directly is to demonstrate that you don’t actually know what the fuck is going on right now. Until you take my earlier recommendation and actually learn about what’s happening, you really shouldn’t proceed with further comments on the subject. But again, at this point you’ll probably just double down. So good luck. Either way, again, I won’t be responding again.
Neat_Concert_4138@reddit
Hahaha. Okay arm chair general.
kohlio412@reddit
Pro war? What’s the alternative? Kick the can a few years?There’s a clear antagonist in this scenario. Only one nation is the aggressor with a total war economy bent on overtaking another nation. Also, relentlessly bombarding civilians while recruiting another mongol board.
Neat_Concert_4138@reddit
Can you tell me how that's NATO business? Since when is it our job to step into another country that's not apart of NATO to stop the biggest military power outside of NATO?
KorppiOnOikeus@reddit
The independence of Ukraine is guaranteed by The United States, United Kindom and Russia. It is literally their business.
alkbch@reddit
No, it is not.
extrastupidone@reddit
Wonder why Ukraine wanted in...
Neat_Concert_4138@reddit
Huh wonder why Russia invaded.
extrastupidone@reddit
Nope. Nobody is pro war. Knock it off, sergei
AllUrUpsAreBelong2Us@reddit
No, that happened when Russia negated on the Budapest Memorandum
slowpoke2018@reddit
Corrected title
Russia - and Putin - whine that they can use North Korean troops - not an escalation - but how dare Ukraine defend themselves from a literal mogul hoard
Fuck Russia, fuck Putin and Fuck anyone who thinks Ukraine is the aggressor
boozefiend3000@reddit
Still blows my mind any westerner believes the Russian propaganda. Like fuck, you do realize all these old Russians running the show were all working for the Soviet government too right? One was evil incarnate, the other is the victim
regjoe13@reddit
The dark truth behind NATO’s “fear of Russian escalation”
https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/09/10/the-dark-truth-behind-natos-fear-of-russian-escalation/
SystematicHydromatic@reddit
Have we finally reached the phase where the fireball bounces off the wall comes back and hits Russia in the face?
fardandshid1821@reddit
Danny Sheehan has stated that we have a program to fit reverse engineered UAP to drop nuclear weapons. And we can hit anywhere in the world within minutes.
Also, they work by slowing down time (they don't go as fast as they seemingly go. They seem fast to the outside observer. Those in the craft see everything outside as practically frozen in time.)
I know this is almost downright rejected as a possibility, but I truly believe it to be the case. And most importantly, I think we can use them to shoot down ICBM's. That doesn't mean 1 or 2 wouldn't get through, though. But mutually Assured Destruction is less mutually Assured these days. Putin will have a nuke go right up his goddamn ass if he plays too much. And there's nothing he can do about it.
CMDR-Eggp1Ant-6oy@reddit
project global strike
extrastupidone@reddit
Ah yes... 100,000 Imported north Koreans is just the old phase
Opposite_Ad_1707@reddit
What will be the next phase
AfternoonPhysicalB@reddit
https://www.turkiyetoday.com/world/serbian-president-warns-putin-may-use-nuclear-weapons-if-security-is-threatened-81408/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/putin-would-not-hesitate-to-use-nuclear-weapons-serbian-president/3398417
Contains statement of Serbian president but does not contain all that that was said yesterday. This was just a very mild version of what was said yesterday. Share it.
Longer version contained words like " those who think president Putin is threathening with an empty gun are completely crazy and they do not know Putin like I do " You only have very mild version in the news
Illustrious-Being339@reddit
0% chance they use nuclear weapons
RealCalintx@reddit
capitan_dipshit@reddit
https://i.redd.it/ct2vitdnpz1e1.gif
Reeko_Htown@reddit
The phase of find out?
Firm-Analysis6666@reddit
No....that's about 3 weeks from now.
worthplayingfor25@reddit
More like three months
ChodeCookies@reddit
Russia warns. The USA does not fear Russia
ApesArtist@reddit
LOL, we don’t care
TotalRecallsABitch@reddit
I hope Biden doesn't budge, like Obama did with Syria. A red line is a red line!
Best_Seaweed8070@reddit
Oh, fuck off already, Russia. If they still had working nukes, they would have proved it by now.
lurkerdude8675309@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
maninthemachine1a@reddit
Most people in US right now: Please! Do it! Here's my address!
Maleficent_Bother252@reddit
Nothing ever happens
RealCalintx@reddit
Nope. It’s good to be prepared and by your EU merch rn, but Putin is a bitch and he know his allies will abandon him.
Princess_Actual@reddit
Russia cannot and will not use these weapons.
Fancy_Exchange_9821@reddit
I’m sure Putin would get pushed out of a window if he tried to order a strike on NATO anyways. Gonna take orders to vaporize your family, nation, and loved ones? I’d be willing to bet some of those top Russian officials like living their wealthy lives of power too much
Princess_Actual@reddit
Russia is a nation of cowards. Any credible nation, with a credible nation would act, not issue empty threats for years on end. Their nukes may as well not exist.
Fancy_Exchange_9821@reddit
And I’ll still have to go to work tomorrow…and next week…and next month…and next year…you get the point
SMTecanina@reddit
How is this a new phase of war?
Russia claims Crimea as part of russia. Ukraine has utilized western supplied long-range weapons such as ATACMS and Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles against russian assets in Crimea.
Meaning this has been happening for a while now...