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Red-Truck-Steam@reddit

What drives people to laser aircraft so frequently. It’s a crime, it’s dangerous, and not even fun beyond “duh I’m touching plyane”.

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Actual-Money7868@reddit

There were 13,304 aviation related laser incidents in 2023 alone

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/lasers/laws

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

At over 50,000 flights per day, 13,304 laser events in 365 days is, by definition, a rare occurrence.

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ComesInAnOldBox@reddit

In a country with over 300,000,000 people and over 400,000,000 guns, "only" 43,000 lives are lost to guns every year. Good news, everybody! We don't have a gun violence problem in the US, after all!

- You, probably

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

Good news, everybody! Your cause of death is statistically unlikely to be due to gun violence. Just like your flight is statistically unlikely to get hit by a laser.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

It’s well established that you are not qualified to discuss statistics at this point.

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ComesInAnOldBox@reddit

Yep, called that one.

Christ on his throne. . .

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Something that happens (by your numbers) more than 36 times a day is, by definition, not rare. See how this works? Rare isn’t an abstract statistical measure, context matters. 36+ dangerous assaults on innocent people per day is not rare at all.

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Actual-Money7868@reddit

You're technical not wrong but the point the person you were replying to was that is still way too many.

If a factory makes 50,000 cans of soup a day and during a year consumers find in total 13,000 rats during that period you wouldn't call it rare. It's disingenuous.

The fact that this happens to an aircraft full of people 13,000 times a year it nuts, not only that but that's only the ones reported to the FAA. It could easily be triple that.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

an aircraft full of people

Says who? Half the reports are from general aviation. So when I say facts and call something rare, it's "disingenuous." But then you turn around and use hyperbole and anecdotal thoughts. Nice.

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Actual-Money7868@reddit

So you just ignored everything else I said ? Those people shining lasers don't know how many people are on board, even if it's a Cessna still could hold a few people which would mean it's full of people, I never said how many.

You're grasping at straws and it shows

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PullTheGreenRing@reddit

I was lased and heard another guy get lased 70 miles away from where I was when I got lased in the same day.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

13,000 laser strikes reported to the FAA in 2023. 17 million flights handled by the FAA in 2023. 0.08% occurrence. That's rare, not frequent.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

Over once an hour is quite frequent.

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PullTheGreenRing@reddit

Im confused why this is the hill you chose to die on.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

Somehow stating facts is dying on a hill in your mind.

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PullTheGreenRing@reddit

Im not sure many people appreciate your facts when they make it sound like you’re trying to downplay the seriousness of planes getting hit by lasers.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

I couldn't care less what people appreciate on reddit.

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PullTheGreenRing@reddit

Then why bother contributing

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ParkingOpportunity39@reddit

I don’t think everyone is reporting them.

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remingtonbox@reddit

I’d say it happens to me probably once a month and I fly 14 days a month

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

I fly 10 days a month and haven't been lasered nor have I heard of an event on the radio in 2024. Sounds like you're working for a shit airline in Mexico.

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theFooMart@reddit

We must have missed the memo that everyone's experiences all over the world must be the same as yours.

Did one of your coworkers call in sick today? I only ask because I thought one of mine did, but if it didn't happen to you, then it couldn't happen to me.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

Airplanes aren't lasered frequently. It is rare, not frequent. A laser event is a mandatory report at any 121 operation. I can go back and look at laser reports and see they occur at a rate that would be considered rare, not frequent.

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theFooMart@reddit

A laser event is a mandatory report at any 121 operation.

That's an FAA thing, right? Thats only applicable in the US. There's Canada, Mexico, Spain, Chile, Japan, and 189 other countries that don't have to report these incidents to the FAA.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

I said 121 operation. 121 operation is an FAA regulation. The FAA is the governmental oversight for the USA. So you might want to check your reading comprehension.

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BattleClean1630@reddit

Sure Karen whatever you say.

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theFooMart@reddit

The FAA is the governmental oversight for the USA

Exactly my point...

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

And look at the top 5 performing airlines by revenue, fleet size, any metric you want. 4/5 are US carriers.

If you work for the largest airline in the world, and have access to their laser reports, one can surmise that your sample size is large enough to be representative. But sure, keep arguing about "how frequent laser attacks are" despite not having anything beyond anecdotal evidence to back it up.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

It’s a good thing you’re a pilot and not a research scientist.

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SeanBean-MustDie@reddit

You’re talking about airlines as if things can would only happen to airline pilots when this happened to helicopter.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

Because the data is available.

I never said things only happen to airline pilots. I said laser strikes are rare.

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AbbreviationsNo7905@reddit

Jeez, you sound like your personality got lasered.

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Cascadeflyer61@reddit

I have been lasered going into Manila several times, a real problem!

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Chester-Bravo@reddit

I'm a 121 pilot. I've been lased multiple times, both in the airlines and in my former military helicopter. Just because you have limited experience doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

I'm a 121 legacy airline pilot. What's your point?

I've been lased multiple times as well. But it is a rare occurrence.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

The problem here is that your interpretation of the word rare is unhinged from reality. This is a case where the context and what the event is matter, not an contextless isolated statistical measure. There’s literally a meme from a children’s show that explains it, yet somehow it escapes you: “Is four a lot? Dollars, no. Murders, yes.” Honestly, a perfect example of how someone can learn a complex technical skill, but lack any of what would commonly be considered intelligence.

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Rolf-hin-spage@reddit

It certainly wouldn’t be underreported, would it? I mean, the FAA really encourages reporting anything by making our lives easier when we do.

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Over-Conflict6231@reddit

You're not reporting it to the FAA. You're reporting it to your company. And there's no reason not to report it. The reports are, like FOQA data, anonymous. Only the union has access to names. There is literally no reason not to report a laser strike, but every reason TO report one, including the fact that it's literally a requirement of our job.

But yeah. Keep talking about something you clearly don't know anything about.

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abstractmodulemusic@reddit

You should be allowed to carry your own laser. Help people learn empathy the hard way.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

Not sure where you get your information, but you are wildly incorrect. Laser incidents are incredibly common.

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ParkingOpportunity39@reddit

It happens every day. I’ve reported many laser events over the years. Sometimes I don’t even bother, because the paperwork becomes a nuisance.

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RR50@reddit

People that are assholes…..which there are millions and millions of in the country these days…

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Big-Professional-187@reddit

Like the drone operators crashing on protected nesting sites or defenseless mothers unloading their minivans?

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

Okay grandma, let’s get you in bed.

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Big-Professional-187@reddit

I was referring to my last 3 dji drone purchases.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

Because it makes lots of sense now.

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Big-Professional-187@reddit

I'm considering another. But JBL speakers and capital gains taxes keeping me grounded.

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Mouseturdsinmyhelmet@reddit

https://imgur.com/a/iqtzLRK

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KV_86@reddit

Same as throwing stones of the highway overpass. Lack of awarness and

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gishlich@reddit

r/redditsniper

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Big-Professional-187@reddit

Drugs. It makes us responsible undocumented scientists(who should be on a list) look bad enough as it is.

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ElectricalChaos@reddit

TL;DR - Do not FAFO with lasers aimed at helicopters, they will hunt your dumb ass down.

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itsonlyanobservation@reddit

Throw the book at them. That's attempted murder

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Pretty_Leopard_7155@reddit

Attempted murder undoubtedly, but probably impossible to prove ‘intent’. This (and all similar incidents) needs to be actioned under terrorism law … as it will no doubt be actioned the first time some retard manages to bring does a fully laden passenger airliner. This loser should automatically be held in secure custody, given a thorough psychiatric evaluation, then held until processed or assessed as mentally unfit to stand trial. Either way he should not be seen on the streets again for a long, long time.

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bdc41@reddit

I think when you run as having “intent”.

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grumpy_toots@reddit

Laser strike? Hahaha like it was a missile attack. Gah you gotta applaud journalists for their use of vibrant language. Can turn something like "person points a laser at a helicopter and it makes it hard to see for pilot" to "terrorist strikes with high powered energy beam in attempt to thwart heros saving a life" haha

For the dummies looking to argue, I'm just making fun of the use of "laser-strike". You obviously shouldn't point lasers at aircraft even if the directions don't say on the box. Just like you shouldn't eat tide pods.

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bdc41@reddit

Let’s see, it was a laser and it did strike the helicopter. These are the terms used to describe the event and are used to keep statistics. I love the “hard to see”, I call it blinding. I guess I’m using “vibrant language “.

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planespotterhvn@reddit

Activist judge will let him off because of his bad upbringing.

What about deterrence for other wack jobs?

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SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK@reddit

Let people have their fun. Damn...

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Volkove@reddit

No, it's illegal for a reason.

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SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK@reddit

I'ma illegalize your shit bass blood

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DirkDundenburg@reddit

Man, STFU.

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SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK@reddit

Why are you swearing at me?

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BallisticHabit@reddit

You are correct.

People shouldn't swear at the mentally challenged.

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WestDuty9038@reddit

Because you’re encouraging an action that could blind somebody. Also, not to mention blinding the pilot of an aircraft A. that could cause all sorts of damage if it crashes and B. that could be carrying anywhere from one or two to hundreds of passengers. When they crash, it’ll be the person holding the lasers fault.

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AlpacaCavalry@reddit

"Let people have fun an endanger an aircraft and everyone on it, also idgaf about the crewmembers' getting eye damage"

Listen to yourself for once before commenting asinine shit like this

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Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

Good. Should be charged with aggravated assault, if not attempted murder, for trying to blind the aircrew. Laser pointers can cause serious eye damage.

In the Apache (hypothetically) when someone would try to lase us I'd lase them back with my decidedly more powerful and non-eye-safe designating laser. No longer have that option in my current aircraft.

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Maleficent_Beyond_95@reddit

Added benefit....they wouldn't even know it was happening until their eye started to itch "for no reason".

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Agents-of-time@reddit

Is the damage irreparable at that point?

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Maleficent_Beyond_95@reddit

The short answer is....it depends. But yes, both IR and visible lasers can permanently damage eyes in a very short time.

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Agents-of-time@reddit

Oof, that’s scary innit.

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carlhines@reddit

Yes. You will only know when it is too late. Although that might be the case for any laser that’s powerful enough. I’m not sure if you would see a green light while being blinded by it

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Agents-of-time@reddit

Right, and is the damage reversible via treatment?

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puremeepo@reddit

Any laser that does damage to your eye in less then 0.25 seconds will permanently damage your rentias. Ir lasers don’t trigger your blink reflex because the wavelength is beyond what the eye can see making them extremly dangerous. They still burn your eyes perfectly fine though. Ir burns the retina and if burns the cornea. We can’t complelty repair the burn although there are things that can help. Haven’t extremly good vision is extra important to be a pilot though.

To answer the other question, you will see a green laser, but it will burn your eyes before your eyes react to the light if it’s powerful enough.

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Agents-of-time@reddit

Thanks for the detailed response mate. Appreciate it. Its scary tbh. Imagine strolling through a park and getting your eye burnt by a wanker with a laser.

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torero15@reddit

Are these lasers infrared then?

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theducks@reddit

Target designator lasers are, yes

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verysmolpupperino@reddit

Did people lase you while flying a military heli? How are people this irresponsible

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Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

Yeah, we're not invisible and there are idiots everywhere

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DarthQuinn1997@reddit

Did you have an LWS?

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Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

When using acronyms, it's important they're widely known. I'm hazarding a guess you're asking about a Laser Weapon System? If so, no, we did not. It's an IR ranging and designating laser, not a laser intended to cause damage. That said, there is enough wattage behind the laser that it can cause harm to sensitive biological parts like eyes.

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nolimitz88@reddit

How many watts are the ranging lasers on those helis if you can tell me? I have a 7 watt 375nm laser pointer and a 10 watt 355nm UV laser with a galvo for micromachining.

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Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

Honestly, if I ever knew that information it's been too long since I used it/got out, but I believe it has more to do with the coding pulse of the laser triggering the detection system more than the wattage now that I think about it

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DarthQuinn1997@reddit

I meant more like a laser warning reciever. Notifying you that you're being lased

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Sneaky__Fox85@reddit

Ah. Yes, but it doesn't detect low-wattage laser pointers as those don't direct weapon systems

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DarthQuinn1997@reddit

Interesting, I've been curious for a while but haven't had the ability to ask. Thank you

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verysmolpupperino@reddit

Honestly amazed. How often did this happen?

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Public-Cookie5543@reddit

Better mow them down

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MasterKiloRen999@reddit

Man getting lased by an ir designator must be really weird. You can’t see it so you have no idea you’re getting lased until your eyes suddenly start hurting. I wonder how long you’d have to expose someone to cause blindness?

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TravelNo437@reddit

You should’ve just hit ‘em with a hellfire.

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thetrappster@reddit

Well, your laser is quite a bit safer for the offender than a hellfire.

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Left_Afloat@reddit

Isn’t it Rifle for ATGMs?

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The_Flying_Doggo@reddit

Yes. Fox 1 for SARH Missiles, Fox 2 for IR missiles, Fox 3 for ARH missiles, Pickle for Bombs, Rifle for air to ground missiles, and Magnum for anti radar missiles.

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Tomcat286@reddit

Once I heard on atc that a helicopter reported a laser attack. What the attackers didn't knew, it was a police helicopter. They were directly chased and arrested

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thedman9052@reddit

I've heard police helicopters will purposefully bait out laser strikes, they have a camera turret that can pinpoint the source. Then they radio patrol officers who immediately go arrest the perp.

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alexthepeen@reddit

I’m curious as to what you mean by “baiting” the laser strikes. Does this mean they’re doing anything differently while operating the helicopter? Or is it just them going out on a “patrol” for laser strikes?

I know nothing about aviation, I just follow this sub because I find the sky trains interesting.

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PilotsNPause@reddit

I would imagine it means that they go to areas with known laser strikers and see if they'll lase them as well.

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alexthepeen@reddit

Okay so more or less just patrolling an area. Thanks for the response.

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kayenta@reddit

I’m not sure if this is common, but at my home airport when we had pilots report laser strikes, the police helicopters that were based there would go out of their way to see if they could pinpoint where the laser was coming from. One time when they found the culprit, the cruisers pulled right up on the guy while he was still aiming the laser at the police helicopter.

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alexthepeen@reddit

Okay so it’s still fairly report based. I was kind of imagining the pilots being bored and deciding to go laser hunting.

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GaiusFrakknBaltar@reddit

What would the charge be for him? Reckless endangerment?

Idk, I personally wouldn't mind attempted murder, even if it doesn't stick in the end.

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Turntup12@reddit

Federal charges. And i believe at least 15,000 dollars in fines and/or at least 2 years in federal prison. Dont fuck with the FAA

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RedRedditor84@reddit

I don't imagine any authority in the US will be concerned with crimes committed in New Zealand.

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Turntup12@reddit

I’d imagine ICAO has similar punishments that work with NZ government

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challengerrt@reddit

18 U.S.C. 39A - fine of an unspecified amount and up to 5 years in federal prison - making it a felony.

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joshwagstaff13@reddit

Charged with endangering transport.

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BoatinInTheBuff@reddit

The one that I do know about personally… About 20 years ago we had a young man LASERing our (USCG) choppers in the Savannah area. On top of a monetary fine and criminal record, the judge also had the individual do “community service” work at our CG Air Station doing mostly janitorial and other menial work around the people he targeted.

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AborgTheMachine@reddit

Does "unauthorized laser illumination event" imply the existence of an authorized one? 🤔

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ehrplanes@reddit

Am I missing the article? Where is this from?

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Grand_Dragonfruit_13@reddit (OP)

Sorry, it disappeared. I have inserted a link.

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SpoonNZ@reddit

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360491687/rescue-helicopter-tracks-down-clown-who-pointed-laser-pilot

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ripped_andsweet@reddit

where are these people getting such powerful lasers? just amazon and temu or is it more illicit? (i’m not trying to get some for myself im genuinely just curious, idk anything abt lasers lol)

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calvinb1nav@reddit

Nanny state wants to ban everything but somehow misses banning these. Toys shouldn't be this dangerous.

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Pope_GonZo@reddit

There are plenty of websites where one can get very very powerful handheld lasers... That said, it only takes a 10-30 milliwatt laser to make it where you can see the beam in the air.... I have a 150mw 488nm handheld and I can fit it easily in my front pocket. I'm not a gd moron though and make very sure there's no aircraft in the vicinity anytime I mess around with mine. Some people are just too stupid to be alive really

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YABOI69420GANG@reddit

Like $10 on eBay. Gun shows/fireworks stands/military surplus stores and any other place that sells cheap shit at insane markups seem to have them. Swear every kid in the neighborhood somehow acquired one growing up.

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jesuswantsme4asucker@reddit

There are lasers that star gazers use to point out different astronomical objects etc. they are pretty powerful.

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turnington@reddit

I got a crazy powerful one on amazon for $13. Its like 3x stronger than the laser on my pistol light and will illuminate a whole room in the dark if you point it at the ceiling.

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FastPatience1595@reddit

Fuck this asshole coward. May he rot in jail.

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RealUlli@reddit

What's the actual crime they'll get charged for in the US?

Here in Germany, it's "Dangerous interference with air traffic" ("Gefaehrlicher Eingriff in den Luftverkehr") with a penalty of at least 6 months, up to 10 years in jail. (The same penalties apply if you interfere with trains or ships).

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Grand_Dragonfruit_13@reddit (OP)

This is New Zealand. Crimes Act 1961 says:

270 Endangering transport

(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years who, with intent to cause danger to persons or property or with reckless disregard for the safety of persons or property,—

(a) interferes with any transport facility; or

(b) does anything to any transport facility that is likely to cause danger to persons or property.

(2) For the purposes of this section, transport facility means any vehicle, ship, or aircraft, and any property used in connection with the transportation of persons or goods; and includes equipment of any kind used in navigation or for the guidance of any vehicle, ship, or aircraft.

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Pretty_Leopard_7155@reddit

“… with ‘intent’ to cause danger …”. ‘Intent’ appears to be the weak link here. Far too easy for any criminal lawyer (or even a town planning lawyer) to argue “no intent”. Just put this kind of silliness in the ‘attempted terrorism’ basket (and take his drivers licence away permanently … far too irresponsible to be driving a vehicle).

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SpoonNZ@reddit

“Or with reckless disregard”

They don’t need to prove intent. Reckless disregard is probably a far easier hurdle.

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Tomcat286@reddit

Plus body injury, plus civil lawsuit

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RealUlli@reddit

Not a lawyer, but AFAIK body injury isn't a civil matter here in Germany either.

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WeissMISFIT@reddit

He said this is NZ, we don’t have body injury suits, we have ACC. It probably wouldn’t be a civil lawsuit either.

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Tomcat286@reddit

Sorry, my answer should add to the comment about German law

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RoboNerdOK@reddit

NZ doesn’t strike me as a place where hiding from helicopters in cars is a well thought out game plan.

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Cascadeflyer61@reddit

There was a guy up here North of Seattle, lasering people flying into Arlington airfield, he received 8 months in prison, and 3 years supervised release, I think he got off lightly! https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/snohomish-county-man-who-aimed-laser-two-small-planes-sentenced-prison#:~:text=Christopher%20W.,U.S.%20District%20Judge%20Richard%20A.

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mctomtom@reddit

In US, it’s a specific federal crime and can put perpetrator in jail for up to 5 years. Also a felony. Fines starting at $11,000 per incident, on top of the jail time.

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Old-Car-9962@reddit

People are dickheads

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Historical_Gur_3054@reddit

Genius plan to lase an aircraft that can follow you around

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stehajo@reddit

Genious plan to lase an aircraft at all, or any beeing for that matter. People are disgusting.

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Pretty_Leopard_7155@reddit

“… with ‘intent’ to cause danger …”. ‘Intent’ appears to be the weak link here. Far too easy for any criminal lawyer (or even a town planning lawyer) to argue “no intent”. Just put this kind of silliness in the ‘attempted terrorism’ basket (and take his drivers licence away permanently … far too irresponsible to be driving a vehicle).

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foolproofphilosophy@reddit

Hell hath no fury like a helo pilot scorned.

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uwotmVIII@reddit

Shining laser at a plane is stupid.

Shining a laser at a helicopter is advanced stupid.

[-]

Friendlies could choose to turn around or lay on the ground to avoid the effects.

[-]

DarkyHelmety@reddit

FAFO

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TimeSpacePilot@reddit

Serves them right. That could seriously harm the eyes, cause a crash or end a pilot’s career.